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Birmingham 1970

24 May 05 - 02:35 PM (#1492154)
Subject: Birmingham 1970
From: GUEST,loribee

Did anyone go to the Jug o'Punch in 1970? A recording was made and was broadcast by BBC Radio Birmingham. The date was possibly the last Thursday in August although it may have been a week or so later.
A friend did a floor spot, she is now in poor health. Her family have no recording of her singing and to trace this one would mean a great deal to them.
The radio station need the name of the show and the exact date, can anyone with a long memory help?

24 May 05 - 10:32 PM (#1492461)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: Peace

If you are sure about 'the last Thursday in August, that fell on the 27th. A week later would make it Sept 3. ( I realize that's not your question, but why not have BBC check both dates?)

24 May 05 - 10:38 PM (#1492468)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: Peace

Also, have you attempted to locate the owners of the club from then? They may have some written record of who played and when.

25 May 05 - 03:23 AM (#1492599)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: The Villan

A couple of ideas.

Why don't you e-mail Harvey Andrews and see if he can remember anything. I believe that was one of his locals.

The other is to get in touch with the Birmingham Mail and see if they can find anything that might give a clue around that date. I am sure they must have an archive.

Will the library have anything in their archives?

25 May 05 - 03:27 AM (#1492601)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: Roger the Skiffler

When I worked in Birmingham Reference Library in 1966/7 there were many keen folkies & Jug o'Punch regulars on the staff. They've probably all died or retired by now but the Library may well have local folk stuff in the local history collection as a result, worth trying them.
I was always at the Opposite Lock jazz club not the JoP and left for London late in 1969.


25 May 05 - 06:37 AM (#1492682)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: GUEST,The PA

Talking of Birmingham in the '70's, does anyone happen to know if anything was ever written (musically) about the Birmingham bombings, November '73/74?

25 May 05 - 08:49 AM (#1492772)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: GUEST,Frug

Jug of Punch was the residency for the Ian Campbell Folk Group........I'm fairly sure that if you could get hold of Ian he could help. Also try Barry Roberts who posts here occasionally as he was around the midlands circuit in those days too.


25 May 05 - 09:19 AM (#1492793)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: Trevor

There was a poem written about the bombings. I'll have a dig around and see if I can find it.

I used to go to the JoP at about that time but have lost a few grey cells since then - I was also going to suggest tracking down Ian Campbell.

25 May 05 - 09:41 AM (#1492813)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: Trevor

The only one I could find was this, and its a short piece by one of the people convicted of the bombings. I'm sure I've seen something else - I had two good friends killed in the Tavern and I know there was something written that brought the whole thing back. Sorry I haven't got time to have a look and remind myself how to do a blue clickie!

25 May 05 - 12:42 PM (#1492948)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: The Villan

25 May 05 - 08:14 PM (#1493312)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: Chris Green

There's a parody (but a serious parody if there is such a thing!) written by Roger Woddis of Yeat's "Song of Wandering Aengus". It's about the Birmingham pub bombings.

The Hero

I went out to the city streets
Because a fire was in my head
And saw the people passing by
And wished the smallest of them dead,
And twisted by a bitter past,
And poisoned by a cold despair,
I found at last a resting place
And left my hatred ticking there.

When I was fleeing from the night
And sweating in my room again,
I heard the old futilities
Exploding like a cry of pain;
But horror, should it touch the heart,
Would freeze my hand upon the fuse,
And I must shed no tears for those
Who merely have a life to lose.

Though I am sick with murdering
Though killing is my native land,
I will find out where death has gone,
And kiss his lips and take his hand;
And hide among the withered grass,
And pluck, till love and life are done,
The shrivelled apples of the moon,
The cankered apples of the sun.

I've often thought it's screaming out for a tune.


25 May 05 - 10:25 PM (#1493357)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: GUEST,harvey andrews

I know that a series of nights were recorded by Hospitals broadcasts for the Bham area, in fact I have been sent a tape of a couple of shows I will get transferred to digital. I don't think Radio BHam ever recorded the Jug.

26 May 05 - 02:00 AM (#1493407)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: Bob Bolton

G'day duellingbouzoukis / Chris,

... Er ... don't I hear - in the distant reaches of the fading grey matter - some Pommy folksingerine (Judy Collins ... ?) singing what appears to be the original words ... ending:

... "The silver apples of the moon,
    The Golden apples of the sun.

I'll have to excavate a few levels down in the vinyl strata to check that ... tonight ... ?



26 May 05 - 04:04 PM (#1493816)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970

There was me looking for a post about a city in Alabama!

26 May 05 - 04:39 PM (#1493834)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: PoppaGator

Judy Collins' recording of the Wandering Angus poem-set-to-a-melody was entitled "Golden Apples of the Sun," and can be found on the LP of the same name, her second album, which dates all the way back to 1962. It might also be on one of the many "greatest hits" compilations.

I can just about remember the tune, and was able to almost-accurately sing along to myself while reading the above "serious-parody" lyrics.

27 May 05 - 06:42 AM (#1494117)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts

This thread seems to have wandered a bit, though in the course of doing so it has turned up that brilliant lyric about the Birmingham bombings.

Going back to the original query --- there was a broadcast made from the Jug of Puncvh at about that time. It was broadcast live from the Club, but it was recorded, because it was subsequently repeated on the air. I think, from memory, that it was recorded for and broadcast on the BBC Radio Forces Network originally and then repeated at home. The performers in the broadcast were the Ian Campbell Group, Jenny Wilson (?) and myself.

Might Ian Campbell have a copy of it?

27 May 05 - 11:59 AM (#1494339)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts

Whoops! Correction to my previous message. The lady who sang in the Jug of Punch recording was Jenny Parsonage (You're really getting old when you start forgetting beautiful young women!) Presumably Jenny is the subject of the original enquirer's search. I'm sorry to hear she's in poor health. Please pass her my best wishes.

27 May 05 - 09:14 PM (#1494727)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: Malcolm Douglas

That makes sense, as apparently BBC Radio Birmingham didn't start broadcasting until 7th November 1970 (see "Loribee's" original post at Folkinfo: Jug o' Punch 1970.

Normally I'd be very critical of irrelevant (and, in the circumstances, crassly insensitive) posts to a serious thread that just happened to mention Birmingham and 1970; Let's be charitable, though; "PA" may perhaps not have read, or had the intelligence to understand, the original message. "duellingbouzoukis", however, has posted the best-written lyric I've ever seen on the subject of a terrorist bombing of innocents. It doesn't belong in this discussion, but it closes an unnecessary distraction with dignity.

Thanks to Barrie, we can now return to the matter in hand.

22 Jun 05 - 07:40 AM (#1506785)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts

Coming back to this thread after weeks, I'm slightly depressed to see that nobody's come up with the answers or a recording. Surely someone who haunted the Jug of Punch in those days has a recording? Can we hear more from the original enquirer about any results?

22 Jun 05 - 12:44 PM (#1507079)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970
From: The Curator

Maybe one of you could write a song about Callaghan, Hill,Hunter,McIlkenny, Power and Walker six Irishmen who spent 17 years in an English prison for the bombing, before a British court decided in 1991 that they were wrongly convicted.

22 Jun 05 - 01:08 PM (#1507092)
Subject: RE: Birmingham 1970

Meet you half way curator. We'll apologise for what we were not responsible for if you'll apologise for what you were not responsible for. Only difference is I'm sure no one here supports a corrupt judicial system, but I think you probably support the ideology of bombing the innocent?

22 Jun 05 - 03:20 PM (#1507197)
Subject: RE: Birmingham (UK) 1970 - Jug o' Punch recordings
From: The Curator

GUEST. I condem without reservation the loss of any life. I do not agree with any bombing which results in the loss of innocent lives. So do not be so quick to make judgement. How do you know what I think ?

22 Jun 05 - 04:06 PM (#1507232)
Subject: RE: Birmingham (UK) 1970 - Jug o' Punch recordings

I read.

22 Jun 05 - 04:09 PM (#1507234)
Subject: RE: Birmingham (UK) 1970 - Jug o' Punch recordings
From: The Curator

Thanks and best wishes.

22 Jun 05 - 08:24 PM (#1507528)
Subject: RE: Birmingham (UK) 1970 - Jug o' Punch recordings
From: Big Al Whittle

I seem to remember Christy Moore mentioning Richie Havens doing a setting of the wandering Aengus.

The BBC might have the recording - after all we're told they keep records of everything. has anyone tried?

23 Jun 05 - 05:41 PM (#1508325)
Subject: RE: Birmingham (UK) 1970 - Jug o' Punch recording
From: danensis


I originally sent in the request to Folkwaves when my wife was ill. Just to confuse you all, I now think it may have been August 1971 as we only met on the 17th August 1970 and I can't see her parents letting me take their 17 year old daughter off to the big city so soon after we met.

Unfortunately Sue died at the end of May, so the urgency is now off, but I would still like to hear the recording if anyone can find it. I did do a single tape of her on a domestic reel-to-reel recorder, but needless to say I can't find it anywhere.

Anyone who sat within ten rows of her at any of the festivals we attended in the last 35 years will have heard Sue sing, but I think the Jug O'Punch was the only time she got up on stage to sing solo.

In those days she was Sue Campbell, though no relation to the Ian Campbell Folk Group!