Lyr/Tune Req: The Rose of Allendale / Allandale To Thread - Forum Home

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Lyr/Tune Req: The Rose of Allendale / Allandale

20 Oct 01 - 09:32 AM (#576245)
Subject: The Rose of Allendale
From: Mike Byers

I'm looking for words and music to "The Rose of Allendale". I've been told this is in several books of traditional Scots and Irish music, but haven't been able to find it.


20 Oct 01 - 09:49 AM (#576250)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Malcolm Douglas

It's certainly in a lot of old songbooks; it's an English composed song of the 19th Century.  The set that everybody knows, though, is the one that came from the Copper family, who changed the tune a bit (for the better) and in that sense it's traditional.  What you need to do is type rose of allendale into the very useful "Digitrad and Forum Search" box on the main Forum page, which will retrieve a long list of discussions here in which it has been mentioned, and quite a few sets of words for it, some more accurate than others.  You can also see a copy of the original arrangement for piano and voice online at the Lester Levy Sheet Music Collection, but I expect you want the Coppers' variant.

A search for rose of allandale will get you more results, mind, including the DT file with midi.


20 Oct 01 - 09:59 AM (#576251)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Mike Byers

Thank you kindly. By the way, I first heard this on a CD by The Social Weevils, "Live at the R&R". The R&R is a tavern in Hanoi, Vietnam... Interesting world, isn't it?


20 Oct 01 - 11:23 AM (#576285)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Louie Roy

Mike,Foster and Allen does a beautiful job on The Rose Of Allendale.The tape is called the very best of Foster And Allen volume # 2 CMR records.Also on the tape are the following,After All These Years--Red River Valley--Blue Eyes Crying In The Rain---The Rose Of Allendale--The Mountain Of Mourne--I Still Love You---When My Blue Moon Turns To Gold Again--When I Dream---Morning Glory---The Old Rustic Mill By The Bridge---I'll Take You Home Again Kathleen---Do You Think You Could Love Me Again---Alice Benbolt---Molly My Lovely Molly---Gentle Annie.The tape cost around $ 13:00.However if you can't find the tape and still want this recording I will record my tape onto a tape and mail to you,if you pay for the tape and mailing.You can contact me at roy1@wanweb.net.Louie Roy


20 Oct 01 - 02:43 PM (#576395)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Mac Tattie

Foster and Allen? good grief!!!


20 Oct 01 - 05:55 PM (#576446)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: nutty

The song is not traditional but was written by Charles Jeffreys 1807-1865
If you can read the dots, the levy site has some of the original sheet music
ROSE OF ALLANDALE


20 Oct 01 - 06:00 PM (#576447)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: nutty

I forgot that links to search engines are strange....I'll try again
click here
hopefully all you will have to do is put ALLANDALEin the box and press SEARCH


20 Oct 01 - 07:36 PM (#576513)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: DougR

I have a three CD set titled, "Festival of Irish Folk," and "Rose of Allendale" sung by Mary Black is on Volume 3. It is available through Colleen Music, a division of Rego Irish Records and Tapes, 64 New Hyde Park Rd, Garden City, NY 11530. A free catalog is available. DougR


20 Oct 01 - 09:09 PM (#576555)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Malcolm Douglas

Mary Black, like every other Revival performer who has recorded this song, sings the Copper family's adaptation of it, though she seems to have tried to make it into a Country and Western piece. It's pretty, but a bit watered down as she sings it. I believe that I gave all the information required to find this in my original post, but since Nutty's link to Levy doesn't work, I suppose I should add this:

The Rose of Allandale at The Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music.

As I said earlier, though. that's the original version and probably not what Mike was looking for.


20 Oct 01 - 09:14 PM (#576559)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: tremodt

Rego records is not in business at that location at this time they can be contacted in Troy New York

Paddy Noonan the all Ireland champion acordinist was the owner


21 Oct 01 - 11:12 AM (#576742)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca

HEre are the entries here in the Database and Forum

Rose of Allandale in Database
 
Rose of Allendale - Forum 1
Rose of Allandale - Forum 2
Rose of Allendale - Forum 3


21 Oct 01 - 11:31 AM (#576748)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Jimmy C

The late great Irish tenor Count John McCormack also recorded this song under the title " Mary of the Highlands", a little slower but still a great version.

Johnny McEvoy, Paddy Reilly, The Dubliners and many others all recorded it. I like McEvoys version the best.


22 Oct 01 - 10:25 AM (#577331)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: GUEST,Dan in Nova Scotia

Actually you can find another version of the Rose of Allendale on a fabulous cd by Nic Jones called "In Search of ...Nic Jones". I borrowed most of what Nic did and changed it a little to make it fit my style of playing but to me Nic's version is still the best. Cheers,

Dan


20 Jan 07 - 10:26 PM (#1942973)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: GUEST,patty

My cousin informed me today that my great ancestor wrote this song....it is pretty and Im very proud her wrote it--my cousin told me it hangs in the halls of oxford. His name was Jeffery (last name) first name James I think


21 Jan 07 - 12:56 AM (#1943019)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Don Firth

CLICKY

Don Firth


21 Jan 07 - 03:08 AM (#1943043)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Alec

I think some of the confusion this song generates is tied up with its allusion to the Highlands.Although in Britain this usually refers to northern Scotland, Allendale is actually in Northumberland
(which is in England)I suspect its author may simply have utilised a placename he liked the sound of. This may be why looking for it amongst traditional Irish & Scottish tends to be fruitless.


21 Jan 07 - 08:30 AM (#1943177)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: kendall

Doug, I have Mary Black singing this one too. I like the Corries a lot, but I prefer her version.


21 Jan 07 - 08:34 AM (#1943178)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: jacqui.c

Scarpi does a very good version of this song as well.


21 Jan 07 - 09:25 AM (#1943196)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: guitar

The Corries also do a version


21 Jan 07 - 10:36 AM (#1943232)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: GUEST,Tom Nelligan

Another very nice recent version of this lovely song, based on the Nic Jones arrangement, comes from the Canadian quartet Jiig (that's not a typographical error -- they're named for the initials of the members), featuring Ian Robb. It's on their self-titled disk from last year.


21 Jan 07 - 10:53 AM (#1943237)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: skarpi

Heres the chords


D,G,D,A
D,G,D,A,D

oh the flower.............
D,G,D,Bm,D,A
D,G,D,A,D.

sweet rose of.......
D,G,Em,A
D,G,D,A,D.



all the best skarpi Iceland.


21 Jan 07 - 10:57 AM (#1943240)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Leadfingers

In the Good Old days before Mike Harding , Folk on Two did an expose on Rose of Allandale . As I recall , they had sheet music from about 1840 by Jeffreys and Nelson , and had a Pianist and tenor perform the song , then played Martin Carthy singing it as HE got it from The Coppers (Bob and Ron) in 1960 .
Not trying to put Nic Jones down , but would Antie Beeb broadcast a total untruth ? Any one able to check with Mr Carthy and Mr Jones ?
What was stated was , that it was a popular parlour song in the 1840's and was part of the Copper family's repertoire , and one of the songs that Grandfather wrote out in his book in the mid 1920's .


21 Jan 07 - 11:41 AM (#1943272)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: The Borchester Echo

There are innumerable threads (and myths) floating about on the subject of Rose Of Allendale. Martin Carthy did get it from the Coppers, as did Nic Jones a few years later. Both use the Coppers tune which is a slight variation (and improvement) on the sheet music. As I wrote in this thread (Nic Jones, did he popularise Rose Of Allendale?), the Nic Jones recording of the song with Bandoggs is obviously unavailable though it had been in his repertoire long before that. I first heard him do it round about 1969/70 when Fred Jordan was doing it too but it had long fallen out of Martin Carthy's sets. Thus, the only obtainable Nic Jones recording is the live one on In Search Of, and it is quite clear from the arrangement that all subsequent revival recordings stem from Nic's arrangement.


21 Jan 07 - 11:54 AM (#1943283)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Bill D

Whatever The Corries are doing to the song, I am not impressed. That speed and meter just don't seem to me to 'fit' the mood of the song.
I know, sometimes it's the 'first' version you hear of a song that sets your preferences, but having heard maybe 20-25 people & groups sing it, I just prefer the slower, quieter ways. It doesn't have to be precisely an imitation of The Coppers, but they had the right idea.

(Those who have have heard my wife do it with zither may know what I mean...*smile*)


21 Jan 07 - 11:55 AM (#1943285)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Malcolm Douglas

I think 'Leadfingers' may have mistaken this rather old thread (one of many on the subject, and revived the other day after 5 years' inactivity by a lady who presumably wandered in via an external search engine) for the most recent one, which is at

nic jones - did he popularise 'Rose of Allendale'?

Perhaps we ought to let this old discussion sink back into oblivion; there is nothing much here that hasn't been said before and since. If 'Guest Patty' would like to know more, there is a list of other discussions of the song here at the top of this page.


21 Jan 07 - 12:34 PM (#1943330)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: GUEST,DonMeixner

First of all I am a confirmed Corries Fanboy Geek. I also very much like The Rose of Allendale. The Corries do an exceedingly poor job of it. This song is all about emotion and the singer. Mary Black is beautiful and has a voice that suits her well but not this particular song. My intro to it was via Paddy Reilly.

The Dubs did a good job of it but they had the wrong voice on it. Ronnie Drew should have sung it. I would like to hear Dick Gaughan or even Christy "I ain't Mumblin" Moore. It screams for a worn voice to carry it.

Don


21 Jan 07 - 04:12 PM (#1943552)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: skarpi

Hallo all , when I recorded this song with my
band "Our Rose " we did this song in 3/4 .

I Think I can take it from our cd and put into MP3 form I will
try .

all the best Skarpi Iceland.


22 Jan 07 - 08:56 AM (#1944198)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: kendall

Bill, I agree, the Corries do it way too fast.


22 Jan 07 - 09:17 AM (#1944213)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: GUEST,Parttimer

I think that words music and chords are in a set of very cheap little books called `Songs and Ballads popular in Ireland' or something like that. From memory there are four books in the set.


22 Jan 07 - 10:40 AM (#1944289)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Folkiedave

Ossian publications. Sold all mine!!

I took a look at Huntington. Alongside R of A is:

"In the Nauticon Journal is this little gem called "Mary's Cot" which surely is a traditional version of R of A.

It begins:

The morn was clear, the morn serene.
Not a breath came o'er the sea.
When Mary left her Highland Cot
To wander forth with me......

three more verses......


23 Jan 07 - 03:55 PM (#1945851)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Brakn

Did Charles James Jefferys (1807-1865) write it? In the 1861 census he is down as being a music publisher.


12 Feb 07 - 03:40 PM (#1965168)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: GUEST,kurt

Jefferys wrote the words
the music was composed by Sidney Nelson


12 Feb 07 - 03:58 PM (#1965189)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Andy Jackson

This should really be heard in the Anchor at Sidmouth with the Middle Bar Singers in full voice, i.e. the begining of the week.

Andy


12 Feb 07 - 04:15 PM (#1965212)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Dave Earl

Not 'arf Andy,

Mike Taylor leading and the rest of us in the chorus.

Dave


12 Feb 07 - 09:18 PM (#1965536)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Andy Jackson

OOH! brings tears to me nethers


17 Dec 08 - 09:08 AM (#2517757)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Mr Happy

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2GXXO8qDCUc


17 Dec 08 - 09:16 AM (#2517763)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: Georgiansilver

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aubwwFs04Bc&feature=channel_page


17 Dec 08 - 09:49 AM (#2517775)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: SunrayFC

You can hear this song sun by Bob Kirkpatrick at the SUNRAY FOLK CLUB, often.

Sunray Folk Club


17 Dec 08 - 09:52 AM (#2517776)
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allendale
From: SunrayFC

OOOps

Sunray Folk Club

not sure this will work either, although the text is ok!!! HELP!

[fixed- you left the http:// out of the link]--- a clone


04 May 10 - 12:23 PM (#2899859)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: The Rose of Allendale
From: GUEST,Desi

You can also hear this at The Circle Folk club in Coseley West Mid's on Wed nights by myself Desi C Irish singer. And the origin is definitely English coming from Northumbria, written by Charles Jeffrys, music by sidney Nolan around the 1840's. But in my Native Ireland most people think it's Irish or Scots. Must say I find the Cories version very poor, and prefer Sean cannon's or mary Black's excellent country version
Desi C


06 May 10 - 10:12 AM (#2901239)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: The Rose of Allendale
From: Jim Dixon

That should be Charles Jefferys, 1807-1865.


06 May 10 - 11:26 AM (#2901271)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: The Rose of Allendale
From: GUEST,Allan

"And the origin is definitely English coming from Northumbria, written by Charles Jeffrys, music by sidney Nolan around the 1840's."

It certainly seems to be English but can we say it comes from Northumbria? Did the writers come from there? It perhaps is written about a place in Northumbria or perhaps a place in Scotland. If the writer didn't leave a clue then we don't really know for certain.

If it is about a particular place then many point that it is about Scotland. The writer wrote other 'Scottish type' songs. The mention of 'Highland cot' in the song seems to suggest it is about Scotland. Plus of course the spelling (ie Allandale) in the earlier versions seems to point to it being about Scotland.

On the other hand in the reiving centuries English Borderers were described as Highlanders and the likes of Redesdale etc were described as being Highland. So maybe the writer is throwing back to that?

"In 1549 Camden wrote 'The chief [dales] are Tynedale and Redesdale, a country that William the Conqueror did not subdue, retaining to this day the ancient laws and customs. These Highlanders are famous for thieving; they are all bred up and live by theft."

Plus there is this URL below realting to an account of Jacobite Prisoners taken at Preston. On page 370 it lists Robert Patten, minister of Allandale. This is in fact the English 'Allendale" so at least some people used the Scottish spelling for the English place.

So it appears it isn't very clear where the writer is writing about if in fact he had any real place in mind.

http://books.google.co.uk


16 Jul 10 - 09:51 PM (#2946501)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: The Rose of Allendale
From: GUEST,Tony Armstrong

There is a place named Rebel hill in Allendale, Northumberland, where the minister Robert Patten is said to have preached before he and a number of men from Allendale set off to join the Jacobite rebellion at Wooler in Northumberland.

There is a poem about 'The Allendale Rose' from Allendale, Northumberland, but that was about Lucy Grey.

Guest/Allen is not far off about 'The Rose of Allandale' when he mentioned the Jacobites.

'The Rose of Allandale' was written by Charles Jefferys and composed by Sidney Nelson (not Sidney Nolan).

The earliest reference that I've found was in the Newspaper, the Morning Post in 1832, in a play about Rob Roy McGregor. Rob Roy Macgregor's wife was Mary Helen MacGregor. The is places with the name both Allendale and Allandale in Scotland within 20 miles from where Rob Roy MacGregor lived.

Below is some of the sources about 'The Rose of Allandale'
I hope this is helpful to people towards the origins of the song.

The Morning Post (London, England), Saturday, January 14, 1832; pg. [1]; Issue 19063
New Vocal Music. - The Rose of Allandale sung by Mr Wilson in Rob Roy, at The Theatre Royal, Covent-Garden. Written by Charles Jefferys Composed by S.Nelson.... 2s 6d.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Sheffield Independent, and Yorkshire and Derbyshire Advertiser (Sheffield, England), Saturday, November 02, 1833; pg. [1]; Issue 669
Theatre, Sheffield. (England.)
On Monday November 4th 1833.
The Honeymoon.
Song - "The Rose of Allendale." by Miss Aldridge.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Morning Post (London, England), Monday, September 15, 1834; pg. [1]; Issue 19897
New Songs - ..."The Rose of Allandale sung by Mr Sporle at the watering places with the greatest eclat, and honoured by the unanimous applauses of their delightful hearers; "Farewwell, my gentle Mary," sung by Mr Sporle, 2s; The emancipated Negro," with a fine portrait of the late Mr W. Wilberforce, sung with the greatest applause at the late dinners to commemorate the abolition of slavery, Written by Charles Jefferys, composed by S. Nelson. 2s 6d.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

The Harp of Freedom by Geo. W. Clark. p.218
Slaves Wrong's
words by Miss Chandler. Arranged from "Rose of Allandale."

------------------------------------------------------------------

The Book of Temperance Melody: adapted and arranged to popular aids. By Edwin Paxton Hood. 1850. p.30
"I've heard the praise of Rosy Wine." Air-"The Rose of Allendale"
------------------------------------------------------------------

The Poems of John C. Coglan. 1873. p.176
"The Rose of Allendale."
This poem is about a racehorse


17 Jul 10 - 08:14 AM (#2946650)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: The Rose of Allendale
From: GUEST,Tony Armstrong

A little bit more information:

'Rob Roy' was written from the Spring of 1817 by Walter Scott. (wikipedia)

Isaac Pocock (17821835) converted some of the Waverley novels into operatic dramas. On 12 March 1818 his 'Rob Roy Macgregor, or Auld Lang Syne,' an operatic drama in three acts, was first played at Covent Garden. (wikipedia)

I have found some sheet music of the ballad, The Rose Of Allandale, Sung By Mr Wilson at the Theatre Royal Convent Garden, Written By Charles Jefferys and Composed By S Nelson
Publisher: Chappell & Co. Ltd. London. 1820.


14 Aug 10 - 11:49 PM (#2965463)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: The Rose of Allendale
From: GUEST,Andrew

You can purchase the sheet music for the Rose of Allendale from one of the sites listed at the link (via MyLiszt search engine).


16 Aug 10 - 07:55 AM (#2966275)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: The Rose of Allendale
From: GUEST,Rose

Hi, you can find the full lyrics and chords on www.unitedirelandtripod.ie among hundreds of other similar Irish/scots folk songs. The 'rose' refers to a boat by the way and it is Scots though many of my country men believe it's Irish

Desi C


16 Aug 10 - 03:59 PM (#2966598)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: The Rose of Allendale
From: Artful Codger

Rose/Desi: Before spreading more misinformation about this song, can you cite credible sources? In the song, "the rose" clearly refers to Mary, a woman, whatever meaning it may have had in the Rob Roy legend, at best distantly related. So far, the facts presented indicate that "The Rose of Allandale" was just a lyrical love song written along an established pattern, and is no more authentically Scottish than "Brigadoon", while it was likely set in Northumberland. It needs more than mere assertion to refute points others have backed up factually.


16 Aug 10 - 10:35 PM (#2966836)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: The Rose of Allendale
From: leeneia2

Today is my day to add new pieces to my piano repertoire, so I decided to try for Rose of All*ndale.

First of all, let me say that many of the links in this vintage thread no longer work. So here's a nice, fresh link to a lovely MIDI of this song:

http://www.alansim.com/scohtml/scotland.html#S

Go the page and look for 'SWEET Rose of Allandale'.

I have searched on GoogleEarth, and there are towns named Allendale and Allandale in the northern-middle of Great Britain.

Maybe if I look on the Levy site again...


16 Aug 10 - 10:47 PM (#2966842)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: The Rose of Allendale
From: leeneia2

This time I found it at the Levy site. It's under 'Rose of Allandale', as somebody said long ago. I didn't catch the second 'a' on my first try.

It is interesting to hear the differences that have been made over the years as folk folk-processed the tune. It might be fun to play it the modern way then follow with the exact version from the old sheet music.


16 Aug 10 - 10:59 PM (#2966848)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: The Rose of Allendale
From: leeneia2

Hmmm. Something seems to be wrong with the MIDI on that page I just mentioned above. The MIDI doesn't seem to transfer.

So, what do we do when we wish to obtain a valid MIDI of an antique Scottish-Northumbrian tune? We go to Kunst der Fuge, of course.

http://www.kunstderfuge.com/tunes/scottish.htm

Many tunes there, so search for 'Rose.'