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BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19

23 Mar 20 - 11:25 AM (#4041579)
Subject: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Apparently it kills, or can kill, your sense of smell:

https://www.boston.com/news/health/2020/03/23/coronavirus-sense-of-smell/amp

Also Ohio is canceling "nonessential abortions" -- what on earth is a cosmetic abortion?


23 Mar 20 - 11:32 AM (#4041582)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

It is elective surgury.

My sense of smell is off the charts. I'd hate to lose it.

The oldest Congress of US Senators in history is in grave danger

3 are down already


23 Mar 20 - 11:35 AM (#4041585)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

https://www.quorum.us/data-driven-insights/the-115th-congress-is-among-the-oldest-in-history/175/


23 Mar 20 - 12:15 PM (#4041596)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains

Almost two thirds of critically ill coronavirus patients are overweight and 37% are under 60, NHS audit reveals

    Excess weight against chest makes it harder for muscles to draw in deep breath
    Weak immune system allows COVID-19 to spread to lungs and cause pneumonia
    These two factors may explain why two thirds of ICU coronavirus patients obese
    Comes as coronavirus death toll in UK rises to 281 and infections sit at 5,600


23 Mar 20 - 12:37 PM (#4041599)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG

And in the general population?

"In the 2017 survey, it found that 28.7% of adults in England are obese and a further 35.6% are overweight, making a total of 64.3% who are either overweight or obese. 2 Of obese adults, around one in eight are morbidly obese (3.6% of all adults)"

Or almost two thirds. So the correlation of the virus and being overweight is uncertain at best.


23 Mar 20 - 01:16 PM (#4041607)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains

You may be right, after all it   was the daily wail reporting. However the statistic is accurate, as is the explanation for the obese requiring intubation. The factor to carry away is that having the virus is a heightened risk if overweight


23 Mar 20 - 01:21 PM (#4041608)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG

But that is exactly the factor you cannot carry away. In *any* random sample of people from England you would expect about two thirds to be overweight. In so far as the figures show anything, they suggest being overweight has no bearing at all on your chances of survival. Of course, a formal analysis would be required, but the prima facie evidence suggests there is no connection.


23 Mar 20 - 01:24 PM (#4041609)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG

It matters, by the way, because we don't want people thinking "I am not overweight so my risk is lower." As far as we can tell so far, it isn't.


23 Mar 20 - 06:36 PM (#4041682)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

best case worst case scenario nyt


24 Mar 20 - 04:58 AM (#4041733)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains

Obesity carries inherant heightened health risks:
Heart disease and stroke.
High blood pressure.
Diabetes.
Cancer.
Gallbladder disease and gallstones.
Osteoarthritis.
Gout.
Breathing problems, such as sleep apnea

Many are associated with increased mortality from Covid-19
In Italy, 76.1% of patients who died from COVID-19 had hypertension, or high blood pressure.
One-third of COVID-19 patients who died in Italy had heart disease.
About one-quarter of people who died from the coronavirus in Italy had atrial fibrillation.
Diabetes was the second most common condition among COVID-19 patients who died: 35.5% had the illness.
Of those who died in Italy, 20.3% had active cancer in the past five years.
The study found that 18% of people who died had chronic kidney disease.
Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease — or lung diseases such as chronic emphysema and bronchitis — was present in 13.2% of the people who died.
People who previously had a stroke made up 9.6% of COVID-19 patients who died in Italy.
In Italy, 6.8% of COVID-19 patients who died had dementia.Chronic liver disease was the 10th most common underlying condition.
My take on this is that if you are overweight you likely have one or more underlying conditions that rank you with a higher risk.
Statistically if you are obese youa re more likely to die.Reducing weight reduces the risk eg less pressure on the heart, perhaps no more diabetes (if type 2 etc.).................
*Type 2 = remission not cure it might be more accurate to say
My source article insisted on mixing up percentages and fractions- not me.


24 Mar 20 - 05:36 AM (#4041739)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG

Again, Iains, you quote all those numbers without saying how common they are in the general population.

No one is saying being overweight or obese is good for you, or is without risks. But as yet there is insufficient evidence that you are more liable to become critically ill with coronavirus because of it. That evidence may arrive in time.

But for the moment: EVERYONE should act as if they are as susceptible as everyone else. Not developing the idea that 'that group is at greater risk than I am'. It is no exaggeration to say that attitude could cost lives.


24 Mar 20 - 06:14 AM (#4041747)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/which-groups-are-most-at-risk-from-the-coronavirus/


https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/22/819846180/study-calculates-just-how-much-age-medical-conditions
Statistically if you are obese you have underlying conditions
underlying conditions make you more vulnerable to covid-19
How many of those conditions are created,enhanced by obesity.
No one argues that cigarette smoking is good for you anymore!
Why is that?
Perhaps the same mindset should apply to obesity(apart from that created by medical conditions)
The reason 60$ of people on ventilators are obese is because gluttony
has a downside.
original report below.

https://www.icnarc.org/About/Latest-News/2020/03/22/Report-On-196-Patients-Critically-Ill-With-Covid-19   (open it up and extract the document inside)

Oxford University research found that moderate obesity, which is now common, reduces life expectancy by about 3 years, and that severe obesity, which is still uncommon, can shorten a person's life by 10 years. This 10 year loss is equal to the effects of lifelong smoking.


24 Mar 20 - 07:11 AM (#4041755)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

I haven't heard anything, in spite of being inundated with Coronavirus news like everyone else, that loss of smell or taste are symptoms of Coronavirus. As for acid environments, the pH up your nose as you inhale virus particles, or in your eyes or mouth, is quite likely to be the much same as everyone else's. I know you like to be different and stand out from the crowd, but I might suggest you stick to known facts when it comes to this issue. It's worrying enough without rumour-mongers putting their oar in.


24 Mar 20 - 07:27 AM (#4041757)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Well I did just find this:

"The group wants doctors worldwide to tell their patients to isolate themselves for seven days if they begin to lose their sense of smell or taste, even if they do not have any other COVID-19 symptoms, The New York Times reported. Losing those senses is also a frequent symptom of the common cold, another, milder form of coronavirus.


RELATED: Here’s How to Tell If That Sneeze Is Coronavirus, the Flu or Just a Cold..."

Either you're a sucker who believes everything, or you can take cod-science with a pinch of salt. I mean, when you know that most colds are not caused by coronaviruses and that sneezing is not a symptom of Covid-19, would you believe anything else in the article? Losing your sense of smell happens when you get a cold or other upper respiratory tract infection when you already have the other miserable symptoms. Stick to the dry cough and fever is my advice...not that anyone should listen to my advice...


24 Mar 20 - 07:29 AM (#4041758)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains

The American Academy of Otolaryngology posted on its website this week that the amount of anecdotal evidence of anosmia, hyposmia (reduced ability to smell), and dysgeusia (reduced sense of taste) is significant enough that they are added to the list of screening tools for possible infection.

ENT surgeons in the UK also issued a statement urging that anosmia should be categorized as an important symptom that may indicate infection in an otherwise asymptomatic carrier, allowing clinicians at COVID-19 clinics to quickly rule out or confirm this subtle symptom.


24 Mar 20 - 07:32 AM (#4041762)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

I can easily persuade myself that my sense of smell isn't quite as good as it was yesterday. Let's stick to the dry cough and fever.


24 Mar 20 - 07:42 AM (#4041767)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains

When the asymoptomatic are totally unknown in the population and testing is not general it makes sense to use every tool you can. Were this not the case Doctors would not say:
It is significant enough that they are added to the list of screening tools for possible infection.

Cod are best left in the sea I say - the stocks need to recover after EU depradations.


24 Mar 20 - 09:00 AM (#4041783)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

No abortions are elective, though. They are needed, not wanted.


24 Mar 20 - 09:36 AM (#4041790)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Mrrzy I understand yet there are meaningful semantics on each side.
owzat for diplomacy? Unlike elective cosmetic surgury it is somthing that can't be postponed.

There are 4 distinct colds caused by a corona varient.

Rhinovirus: This bunch is most active in early fall, spring, and summer. They cause 10%-40% of colds. You'll feel plenty miserable when you catch one, but the good news is they rarely make you seriously sick

Coronavirus. These tend to do their dirty work in the winter and early spring. The coronavirus is the cause of about 20% of colds. There are more than 30 kinds, but only three or four affect people.

RSV and parainfluenza. These viruses cause 20% of colds. They sometimes lead to severe infections, like pneumonia, in young children.



Starbucks will pay employees for 30 days no matter what.


The Stock market has hit bottom and is now becoming a buying opportunity. butcha gotta bee quick.


24 Mar 20 - 09:47 AM (#4041796)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

We would agree that pandemic Corona has now become the #1 cold symptom virus n'est pas.


24 Mar 20 - 09:56 AM (#4041797)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri

From WebMD:

"There are more than 200 [viruses]that can lay you low.

It's likely that someday you'll have a close encounter with one of these types:

Rhinovirus
Coronavirus
RSV and parainfluenza

There are also a lot of viruses that doctors haven't identified. About 20%-30% of colds in adults are caused by these "unknown" bugs."


24 Mar 20 - 10:43 AM (#4041809)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Elon Musk is producing respirators. Some 3D printers are capable of doing so as well.

While Trump wants isolation to end as soon as Monday for the sake of the economy there is not a damn thing he can do about it. Its up to govenors and mayors.


24 Mar 20 - 10:58 AM (#4041814)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how you objectively assess whether someone's taste or smell has changed between not having coronavirus (when you wouldn't have thought of asking them about it) and having coronavirus. Leading questions, anyone? At least you can hear someone's cough and measure their temperature...The last thing we need is false positives.


24 Mar 20 - 11:08 AM (#4041816)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

"We would agree that pandemic Corona has now become the #1 cold symptom virus n'est pas."

No we wouldn't. The coronavirus that's causing this pandemic doesn't give you common cold symptoms. Stick to what we actually know.


24 Mar 20 - 11:21 AM (#4041818)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

no matter the POV won't save lives.


Trump to NYC "FUCK YOU" I'm keeping ventilators in Federal stock pile


24 Mar 20 - 11:41 AM (#4041821)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri

A couple of days ago "#presidentcuomo" was trending on Twitter. I don't know about him being president, but he's sure fulfilling the role Trump SHOUD be assuming. His behavior in this crisis will hopefully wake some of his idiot followers up.


24 Mar 20 - 12:50 PM (#4041835)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

You can only notice your own sense of smell, unless your roommate suddenly can't tell the milk is off.

No olympics.


24 Mar 20 - 12:55 PM (#4041836)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

It really isn’t helpful when the combed-over Orange-Utan currently infesting the White House spreads false information.


24 Mar 20 - 12:59 PM (#4041837)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Since networks have dropped Trump's corona task force which turned into an election rally, so now FOX has an exclusive task force Trump town hall.
Dr. Fauci the world leading infectious disease expert has been REPLACED !

In his stead is the great and powerful Dr. OZ who plays a doctor on TV.    no shit.


24 Mar 20 - 01:56 PM (#4041851)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

I can't find any indication that Fauci has been replaced by Dr.Oz.
Is this another detour from reality?


24 Mar 20 - 04:23 PM (#4041881)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

India has shut down.

Texas has joined Ohio in banning cosmetic abortions, whatever they are.


24 Mar 20 - 05:04 PM (#4041891)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains

Interesting article on superforecasting and how it likely shaped Britain's response. It is not often the Express is worth quoting but I have not seen this information elsewhere.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1259539/coronavirus-uk-lockdown-cases-deaths-boris-johnson-dominic-cummings-spt


24 Mar 20 - 05:08 PM (#4041893)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: keberoxu

Gillymor,
this appears to be another Donuel satire;

Mr. Fauci spoke to the New York Daily News
protesting against the mutterings
about Fauci's absence from Trump's press conference Monday.


24 Mar 20 - 05:12 PM (#4041895)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The Fox exclusive Trump Town Hall in the rose garden, had Dr Oz for questions, I watched it, they had no other Doctors. What is this detour from reality propoganda. You're the one from Texas where UN conspiracy theories are born. I'm from the beltway where reality goes to die..
As for the Task force with j kushner, who never appears, I don't know.

I am on a Fauci watch later today


24 Mar 20 - 05:23 PM (#4041898)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Anyone else missing the little things like a haircut, dentist, pancakes, chinese food, 7-11, WaWa, Subway...?,


24 Mar 20 - 05:24 PM (#4041899)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

More good common sense from Texas

I figured Fauci's days were numbered, nobody upstages the blob and besides, highly competent, truth-telling, professionals aren't welcome in his administration.


24 Mar 20 - 05:46 PM (#4041903)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Fauci is back right behind Trump in his fart vector.


24 Mar 20 - 05:50 PM (#4041904)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

btw, Fauci is on stage with Twit for the CV task force briefing taking place at this moment and, good news, it will all be over by Easter and the churches will be full and it will be beautiful. This dude's elevator doesn't go to the top floor.


24 Mar 20 - 05:54 PM (#4041905)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Hitler would have loved manipulating a pandemic. I think Trump has been drinking liquid luck. Trump argued at his Town Hall how trading old decrepid lives for the economy is practicly a patriotic thing to do.


24 Mar 20 - 05:58 PM (#4041906)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

There is one senior citizen I can think of whose demise would greatly benefit this country and the world.


24 Mar 20 - 06:17 PM (#4041910)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic

Watching NBC on broadcast TV and whitehouse.gov on the laptop. From my vantage point, the television feed is about ten minutes AHEAD of the White House feed. Is the delay I'm experiencing via the internet or is the white house putting a delay on its own feed?


24 Mar 20 - 06:22 PM (#4041912)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

NPR is even ahead of the TV feed.

I suspect each of us has a dark list we will not say aloud regarding the Covid 19 affliction.


24 Mar 20 - 06:28 PM (#4041913)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic

I think my laptop internet feed was slow not because of a white house delay. Hitting 'refresh' changed the apparent time lag each time.

At least Dr. Fauci is back and still calling the believable shots. Trump looks as usual, like he's a big dumb face on a stick that is trying to control its expression to look serious and like it knows what's going on.


24 Mar 20 - 08:07 PM (#4041928)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

I mentioned it once before but it looks like this finding is real.
Men are twice as likly to die of Covid 19 than women. !!!!!!
I don't believe in vengeful wrath of god crap but it looks like older men have a target on their back.'


24 Mar 20 - 08:32 PM (#4041929)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

That is a very premature conclusion. It may apply so far to Italy and China but not elsewhere. The majority in South Korea, very likely the country that monitors the best, is only very slightly skewed towards males. It's also worth noting that 48% of Chinese men smoke and just 2% of Chinese women. And it is a respiratory tract infection after all. You need to dig deeper before blurting out your simplistic claims.


25 Mar 20 - 04:21 AM (#4041956)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains

Gender disparities are seen in South Korea as well, where men make up almost 62 percent of cases, and once an infection takes hold, it is 89 percent more likely to be fatal in men.

https://www.labroots.com/trending/microbiology/17118/susceptible-covid-19-women

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30526-2/fulltext

A still evolving story

In Italy 23% smoke,28% men, in the UK 15%
Italy has an older population.
Itally has greater resistance to antibiotics than the rest of Europe. This does not help when secondary respiratory infections occur.
Professor Walter Ricciardi, Scientific Adviser to Italy’s Minister of Health, reports, “On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three.”


25 Mar 20 - 04:24 AM (#4041958)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

Do those Chinese women inhale the men's smoke though Steve? Passive smoking. And from what I've heard on TV, the air pollution in the more industrial parts of China is dire.


25 Mar 20 - 05:16 AM (#4041967)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mayomick

I don't want to sound non-alarmist but .......... https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR1wK8PJ-yDvpa3DH-GGJ_3CRP6AhnJBd_I_agfZ33ML_0ewQ7P40AvcwSw
anyone ?


25 Mar 20 - 05:27 AM (#4041970)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mayomick

click click https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR1wK8PJ-yDvpa3DH-GGJ_3CRP6AhnJBd_I_agfZ33ML_0ewQ7P40AvcwSw


25 Mar 20 - 05:38 AM (#4041972)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome

Did anyone see the film footage of the London underground yesterday? There was also a news item on construction work in the city. As most of this construction seems to be non essential would it not make sense to call a halt to it?


25 Mar 20 - 05:39 AM (#4041973)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The finding is still a mystery. The leading conjecture is that men engage in life long risky behavior perhaps as simple as drinking and smoking.


25 Mar 20 - 05:47 AM (#4041975)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mayomick

there are sex differences in longevity in species other than humans Female mammals are usually the longer-lived sex: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4932837/


25 Mar 20 - 06:18 AM (#4041977)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mayomick

"In humans, our cells contain different chromosomes, depending on sex. Females have two X chromosomes while males have an X and a Y. The theory is that the extra X in women has a protective effect against harmful mutations and that this holds true in other species"

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52007780


25 Mar 20 - 08:07 AM (#4041990)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Cloroquine (anti-malarial) doesn't work after all, and is in a brand name of aquarium cleaner that idiots are eating.


25 Mar 20 - 08:20 AM (#4041994)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Ih yeah


25 Mar 20 - 08:20 AM (#4041995)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Oops, meant oh yeah, and Prince Charles.


25 Mar 20 - 12:02 PM (#4042017)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

Just announced on BBC News, a 21 year old woman with no underlying medical issues has died from Covid-19 in the UK.


25 Mar 20 - 12:28 PM (#4042028)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Whether its conjecture or false information, with no current cure or treatmnt except for forced oxygen, people will get desperate.

I can even see myself gobblimg aspirin and musinex and zithromax and penicillin even if I know there is no proof it would work.


25 Mar 20 - 03:25 PM (#4042068)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons

Dave the Gnome.
Yes, it might make sense to stop (unnecessary) construction work. But, many construction workers are self-employed sub-contractors who don't know yet what provision the government will make for them. As such I can understand them wishing to continue working.
I was a civil servant, in an office which is currently still open. I'm so glad I retired!


25 Mar 20 - 04:16 PM (#4042076)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Jackson Browne has it.


25 Mar 20 - 04:21 PM (#4042079)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/25/coronavirus-patients-do-not-resucitate/


25 Mar 20 - 04:55 PM (#4042089)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The CVS pharmacy refused to sell me the 90 day insulin prescription on 3 consecutive days. Today they had it but reduced the prescription to 28 days at a 3000% price increase. I hope this is not being done across the board to everyone.


26 Mar 20 - 08:20 AM (#4042174)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains

Donuel:
Amazon announced its $1 billion acquisition of PillPack in June, sending shares of retail pharmacy companies like CVS Health, Rite Aid and Walgreens plummeting. ... The company said it is licensed to ship prescriptions to all states except Hawaii and can fill schedule III, IV and V medications.Apr 24, 2019


26 Mar 20 - 08:25 AM (#4042175)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains

Something else you could not make up. From Guido as well.
Hilarious!

A Democrat in support of Boris the Bountiful


https://order-order.com/2020/03/26/sanders-praises-sunak/


26 Mar 20 - 08:44 AM (#4042179)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Semi truck trailers are being used to stack bodies outside hospitals in NYC.

The great escape from NYC has probably caused an infection near you.

Montana has the best numbers with under one thousand infections.

Trump is trying to sue TV stations that have ads showing his diminishd capacity. They broadcast his own 'words'


27 Mar 20 - 08:12 AM (#4042383)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Boris!


27 Mar 20 - 08:28 AM (#4042390)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Ok to eat meat on Fridays dduring Lent!


27 Mar 20 - 08:35 AM (#4042393)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons

Meat eating in Lent
It seems that many bishops are issuing dispensations for this at the moment.
The above example is from New Jersey, but a search for "Meat in Lent" via Google news will find many examples.


27 Mar 20 - 08:35 AM (#4042394)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome

They say Boris has it. I hope he is safe and stays well but I am sure I am not the only one who thought "is this yet another of his populist ploys?".


27 Mar 20 - 08:45 AM (#4042395)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG

I am sure I am not the only one who thought "is this yet another of his populist ploys?".

I have read that a lot of times elsewhere already, so you are not. It shows how depressingly low our trust of politicians has got that the thought even occurs to us.


27 Mar 20 - 10:50 AM (#4042415)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

The coronavirus that's causing this pandemic doesn't give you common cold symptoms

Of the many things that give you a cold, coronaviridae are included. There are 5 coronaviruses that affect humans (many many more that affect other mammals), three are more serious, MERS, SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV2.

For all practical purposes the difference between a cold and 'flu is severity. The symptoms are better described as a syndrome, you may not get all of them. Especially if you caught a whiff of SARS-CoV the first time.

Musk may have done a few stupid things, but he ain't stupid when it comes to seeing a need and driving a huge thick wedge through it. And if riding the publicity was his worst vice - we can tolerate that. Surely.


27 Mar 20 - 11:13 AM (#4042420)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

*And* the British health minister.


27 Mar 20 - 01:04 PM (#4042444)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

"For all practical purposes the difference between a cold and 'flu is severity."

Absolutely not the case. Unless you're talking about a cold and man flu. The two illnesses are quite distinct in speed of onset, symptoms and severity. I've had flu five times in my life. No runny or blocked-up nose, no sneezing. Aching limbs, tender skin all over, fever, nausea, severe headache, unable to get out of bed, utter exhaustion. If you're lucky. A dose of flu can down you in an hour from your feeling just fine.


27 Mar 20 - 07:22 PM (#4042506)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic

God Save the Queen (seriously, she met with Boris earlier in March. Hopefully, this was before he shook the hands of Covid patients).


27 Mar 20 - 07:28 PM (#4042508)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Only 30 people tested positive at work out of 32,000 employees.
It is a big place with its own power plant, waste disposal and fire department.


27 Mar 20 - 08:10 PM (#4042516)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Or... Maybe not:


27 Mar 20 - 08:11 PM (#4042517)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

https://slate.com/technology/2020/03/coronavirus-sense-of-smell-nytimes-fact-check.html


28 Mar 20 - 09:46 PM (#4042736)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: leeneia

The newspaper had a disturbing report yesterday. Child-abuse reports in Kansas and Missouri are down 50% from the usual, because many reports come from schools, and schools are not in session.

I have no doubt that all parts of the world where schools are closed are seeing the same thing.


29 Mar 20 - 03:20 AM (#4042754)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome

The UK government are sending a letter to every household in the land. WTF? Putting strain on the already overstretched postal service and increasing the risk of spreading the virus. I have just read it online. It says nothing we don't already know.


29 Mar 20 - 06:31 AM (#4042801)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Last week I went to Bude Morrisons once and Holsworthy Waitrose once (sounds like I'm doing too much shopping, but I'm also helping out older friends who are self-isolating). The precautions being taken to control customer numbers, distancing, queuing in the car parks and checkout monitoring were exemplary at both. Waitrose allowed just twenty in the store at any one time and only twenty trolleys were in use, each of which was sanitised between customers. Both shops had signs up everywhere and there were frequent announcements over the PA. Well I went to Bude Lidl yesterday afternoon. Following the visit, I sent the following email to Lidl's head office:

When I visited this store today, there were hardly any measures in place to protect staff and customers. There was no control of customers entering. There was no sanitisation of baskets and trolleys. There were marks on the floor at the tills (nowhere else) but there was no supervision. There were no signs up in the shop. The narrow aisles meant that customers passing each other were far too close together, and many customers were simply not complying with the 2-metre rule. The protection of staff at checkouts was virtually non-existent. My visit to the store, for the purpose of shopping for a couple over 70 who are self-isolating, was most unnerving, and I won't be visiting the store again. My experience was in stark contrast to two other stores in my area, where very responsible controlling of customers and careful sanitisation were being carried out, and in both of which careful controlling of checkout queues was being carried out. I simply couldn't understand the wild-west approach to the crisis that seems to be prevailing at this store. I hope you will take this message seriously and take prompt action to do the right thing. Thank you.
Steve Shaw


29 Mar 20 - 07:14 AM (#4042811)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

We went to Morrisons yesterday Steve (one out in the sticks, with a mainly elderly clientele) and were very impressed with their arrangements. Supervision of distancing outside and inside the shop, strict control of queues at the tills, screens put up to protect the till staff, everyone assiduously keeping their distance. Our trolley was wiped over and disinfected by a lady in a mask at the door. Most commendable.
However, I read on Mumsnet yesterday that Lidl are not bothering particularly, as you say, and should be avoided at all costs.
Are people completely daft? It's blooming obvious that these measures should be strictly put in place.
We got some extra supplies for a poor young woman in our village who has a sick child of two and is alone. She has little money and we're all supporting her. We left our offerings on her doorstep, knocked and drove away.


29 Mar 20 - 09:12 AM (#4042839)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

https://covidnearyou.org/

Cool and informative map.


29 Mar 20 - 09:17 AM (#4042842)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: G-Force

I suppose you get what you pay for. Pile'em high, sell 'em cheap, kill 'em off.


29 Mar 20 - 09:19 AM (#4042843)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

It might be cool and informative to you, but I can't get past that stupid Captcha page in spite of four attempts to spot bears in extremely indistinct photos. So bugger it.


29 Mar 20 - 12:05 PM (#4042889)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Weird. I had no trouble getting in at first but now there are no data.

Interesting article on why no ventilators:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/business/coronavirus-us-ventilator-shortage.html


29 Mar 20 - 05:16 PM (#4042954)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse

I think Boris Johnson should have recommended masks & should not be asking posties to deliver his letters.


29 Mar 20 - 06:32 PM (#4042968)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg

we all need to wear masks or some face covering. make our own so we are not accused of robbing them from nurses. it should be mandatory. it would slow down the spread. there is research. google it.


29 Mar 20 - 06:44 PM (#4042970)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Most masks don't work, except as a money-spinner for spivs. A false sense of security isn't exactly what we currently need.


30 Mar 20 - 12:04 AM (#4043027)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Shit. John Prine.


30 Mar 20 - 03:23 AM (#4043038)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

Again, Iains, you quote all those numbers without saying how common they are in the general population

There are a few things going on there.
1) how likely are you to contract COVID-19? - social distancing apart (pun intended) - it is no respecter of status, be careful!
2) If you can't be careful, be lucky
3) If you can't be careful, have a healthy/lucky lifestyle.
4) If you can't be careful, be young (I am working on that one)
5) Some of the people we rely on like doctors and nurses (+ police, firemen etc) may be vulnerable yet answer the call. And pay the price. It has happened.


30 Mar 20 - 06:59 AM (#4043082)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator

Steve, I guess that masks are less effective if we are in close proximity to someone without one and do not help with surface to hand transmission so if someone takes of their masks before washing their hands it does kind of negate any benefit.


30 Mar 20 - 07:03 AM (#4043084)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator

I wish the media would be a bit more discerning when reporting individual health announcements and wait for peer validated announcements. We are getting so many mixed messages.


30 Mar 20 - 07:58 AM (#4043092)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The secret to peer into the future is to scrutinize the past.

In 1919-1920 people grew weary and stopped the very same social distancing measures we use today. As a result when the second wave arrived it was more catastrophic than it needed to be. And again with the 3rd wave.

Their past is our future.

Our own behavior will exaccerbate the outome but does not cause the 2nd and 3rd wave.


30 Mar 20 - 09:33 AM (#4043110)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Rain Dog

Steve Shaw posted a copy of the email he sent to Lidl "I simply couldn't understand the wild-west approach to the crisis that seems to be prevailing at this store."

I thought that you did live in the wild-west. Here in the calm south east we do have a Lidl at an out of town location. Not been to it myself as I don't have a car plus it would mean travelling up north.

Stay safe everyone.


30 Mar 20 - 12:27 PM (#4043157)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

The secret to peer into the future is to scrutinize the past.

Usually. But it relies on people looking for the similarities. As I find when drawing analogies in discussions like in this parish. Similarities are ignored or denigrated by comments that show the differences and by implication the analogy is dismissed.

History is an analogy for the future. It is different now, we know more (aka more intelligent?????) now.

If we are more intelligent - we will see the similarities as warnings and differences as boundaries/borders to the similarities.

FWIW History can show there danger of a second wave of epidemic, as we relax. I fear, not predict.


30 Mar 20 - 02:10 PM (#4043189)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Virginia is now under stay-at-home orders.


30 Mar 20 - 02:22 PM (#4043192)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Steve Shaw posted a copy of the email he sent to Lidl "I simply couldn't understand the wild-west approach to the crisis that seems to be prevailing at this store."

It's not so wild in Bude! Very civilised. I received what looks like a very standardised reply today saying that they're getting on with it, sort of thing. Getting on with what everybody else was doing a week or more ago...

I'm not proud and I use Lidl, Aldi and Poundland as well as Waitrose... the Fire Tree Nero d'Avola at £4.49 at Aldi is the best value red I've found in years.


30 Mar 20 - 02:50 PM (#4043200)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

An historian pointed out the fact that cities that carried out parades suffered the most. Today that was New Orleans.

The rest of the country is fueled with new infections by, of all things, Basketball pick up games. TOO BAD there are no public service announcements that the young would listen to. Even if they do, there is an element of defiance or possibly pay back.

The mitigation bucket has lots of holes in it with beaches, stores, homeless, prisons, first responders - (the list is long) , hospitals and elder care facilites.

But its the only bucket we have.

Red, fear is a fine mitigating factor.


30 Mar 20 - 04:36 PM (#4043220)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: leeneia

Yesterday a columnist wrote a vivid and worrying description of what it can be like to have a moderate case of Covid 19. He wrote of lying in bed for a long time, shivering and terribly cold. He even dreamed of riding in a frozen landscape.

But now I ask myself, how about an electric blanket, hot drinks, hot water bottle, chicken soup, hot shower? Was there not one person on the earth who would lend a helping hand? We're not talking about a destitute or derelict person here.

Nonetheless, what he wrote certainly firmed my resolve not to get this virus.
================
I'm often cold at night, esp. my feet and legs. I ordered a big heating pad from Dr. Leonard's catalog, which concentrates on heating those very same feet and legs. Its control goes from 1 to 10, and I only have to put it on 1 or 2. Yet I am sleeping much better than I have in a long time.
==========
A couple of months ago, I asked for a hot water bottle at my local Walgreen's, and they didn't know what I was talking about. They had them.


30 Mar 20 - 05:15 PM (#4043231)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

100


30 Mar 20 - 05:21 PM (#4043233)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

”But now I ask myself, how about an electric blanket, hot drinks, hot water bottle, chicken soup, hot shower? Was there not one person on the earth who would lend a helping hand? We're not talking about a destitute or derelict person here.”

Those were the last things he needed - he was shivering and felt cold because he had a fever, a.k.a. a high temperature. The shivering caused by a fever is called ‘Rigors’ and the treatment, perhaps counter-intuitively, is to cool the patient - often by using a fan to cool them down.

Electric blankets, hot drinks, hot water bottles, would increase the fever and result in him feeling even colder.


30 Mar 20 - 05:25 PM (#4043235)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

My sister is still very ill with the virus, and she describes being raging hot, and an inability to breathe as if one is suffocating with a very heavy weight one the chest. Incessant coughing and great weakness.
Add to this, she lives all alone in a Scottish village in Tayside.
I expect all sufferers have differing symptoms, depending on their state of health before they succumbed.
Bless her, she's still talking about volunteering once she's better, as presumably she'll have immunity. But is it certain that one can't get it twice?


30 Mar 20 - 07:17 PM (#4043252)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

When it feels like a 250 lb person is sitting on your chest is when a ventilator can lessen the stress.


30 Mar 20 - 09:16 PM (#4043263)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg

please everyone..make your own masks and don't be afraid to be the first to wear them. i will try to post some good epidemiological links later. i get most of my information from following epidemiologists and virologists on twitter and there don't tend to be links. start following epidemiologists. this is what i came across..google for yourselves...Israel on the verge of making masks mandatory. germany about to make mandatory in supermarkets. Czechoslovakia already mandatory. several asian countries mandatory but i don't know which ones. it has been idiotic to read these comments that they don't work. if they work by 4% that is good. Of course, wash them daily and hang in sun if possible. Don't count on your bus neighbor washing her hands. People don't. It is not to save yourself...it is to collectively save others.


31 Mar 20 - 12:11 AM (#4043277)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg

Davide Capodanno
@DFCapodanno
The rapid pace of knowledge on #COVID19 leads to revisit your beliefs every 5 minutes. Surgical masks are the most typical example: we went from mocking the few who had them up to the current belief that we should all wear masks for months when things go back to pseudo-normality.

from twitter. was lots on twitter yesterday and more coming right now. find epidemiologists on twitter and follow them if you have anything you think is profound to say. (he is not an epidemiologist but an Italian cardiologist).

please do due diligence and research this. there is no downside i can think of from clean, homemade masks. there is group protection. don't just wear them..pass the word. ask people why they are not wearing something.


31 Mar 20 - 02:36 AM (#4043278)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/top-chinese-health-official-warns-114801914.html

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/top-chinese-health-official-warns-114801914.html

we will have allowed so many people to die over this foolishness. we surely should have figured out we were being lied to. if the reason was to protect a scarce supply, they should have removed the costco masks from the supply going to medics etc. and they should have told the truth...if they work for the nurses, they will work for people in general, but it is more important to protect the nurses. of course it is. they could then say, make your own. make extra. you must wear them in shops and on the bus. bus drivers are now dying. being a smartass here or elsewhere about this is cruel and unnecessary,


31 Mar 20 - 03:52 AM (#4043286)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

the treatment, perhaps counter-intuitively

Well I'm no medical expert, but the experts I see/read tell me that the high temps are the bodies evolved response to slow down the virus because it struggles at higher temperatures.
Indeed the time honoured advice of lemon, honey & an aspirin is forwned on, because acetylsalicylic acid is vaso-dilatory** which cools you down, thus lengthening recovery.
Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice.

** so is whisky (or whiskey) - but then who cares?.


31 Mar 20 - 04:07 AM (#4043289)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jim Carroll

In case anybody doesn't look into the UK politics thread I've taken the liberty of repeating DtheG's link HERE
Everybody should be fully aware what is happening
Jim Carroll


31 Mar 20 - 04:15 AM (#4043292)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

toilet rolls reward for finding missing cockatiel

Living in interesting times!


31 Mar 20 - 04:24 AM (#4043295)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

I see that there are now 165 cases in Ivory Coast, mostly in Abidjan. Husband is frantic with worry for his numerous family. No 'lockdown' as such, just a curfew and mosques/schools closed. But people are out on the streets, going to markets etc.


31 Mar 20 - 09:28 AM (#4043334)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Merde, Senoufou.

I think Virginia has canceled my annual tripping naked hippie springtime Float Trip (it is Memorial Day weekend and stay-home is till June 10). Merde all over again.

Face masks keep you from *giving* but not from getting germs. Worth it.

Texas has ruled the abortion ban to be unconstitutional and unenforceable so that is something.


31 Mar 20 - 11:01 AM (#4043364)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg

Nurses are not afraid of giving the virus to their dying patients. They are afraid of getting it. And I was wondering if dogs could be used to sniff out fever and this illness. They are being tried out in several countries I believe.


31 Mar 20 - 11:16 AM (#4043368)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage

Alabama also. I joined the ACLU as soon as Trump was sworn in, and have kept that membership going.


31 Mar 20 - 11:44 AM (#4043376)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

”Well I'm no medical expert, but the experts I see/read tell me that the high temps are the bodies evolved response to slow down the virus because it struggles at higher temperatures.
Indeed the time honoured advice of lemon, honey & an aspirin is forwned on, because acetylsalicylic acid is vaso-dilatory** which cools you down, thus lengthening recovery.
Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice.“


Well, I was speaking from personal experience, as a patient with high fever and severe rigors on a significant number of occasions over the past fifteen years due to life-threatening infections, of the treatment that was given to me. I was shivering uncontrollably and very painfully to the point of exhaustion, but the things I desperately wanted - heat, warmer bedding, etc., were refused by the medical staff at QMC Nottingham and, instead, thin bedding and a fan were used to reduce my fevers on each occasion. Whilst it’s true that a high temperature is part of the body’s defence against bacterial or viral infections, very high temperatures - >40C - are, in themselves, life-threatening and need to be reduced.

But don’t just take my word for it - scroll down to the last section of the article.


31 Mar 20 - 01:53 PM (#4043404)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse

Re (NOT) funding charities in trouble from covid19, in a good nation in a good United Nations there would be no need for private (competing) charities where, if a celebrity gets involved e.g., some get more than they need & others not enough.

And re news of garden centres in trouble - good, if they are selling exotics rather than the native flora that our native fauna EVOLVED WITH; some photos of Levenshulme Allotments, with native gardening advice here


31 Mar 20 - 04:01 PM (#4043424)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Well I'm outraged that my local garden centre is closed whereas Bude Morrisons and B&M, both of which have more or less separate mini-garden centres, can carry on regardless. That just isn't right. I'm with Titchmarsh on this. Unless the policy changes I'm boycotting all supermarket gardening departments.


01 Apr 20 - 04:00 AM (#4043502)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

Our local Morrisons has a small garden centre attached, but it was fenced off and closed when we went there on Saturday. I wanted bags of compost and some red geranium plants to 'do' our tubs in front of our house.
Husband prefers scarifying the lawn and pressure-washing the patio (menz and macheenz) but we ladeez like to plant and tend.

I suppose none of this is what the Authorities would call 'essential purchasing' though.


01 Apr 20 - 07:11 AM (#4043540)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Pressure-washing the patio is a filthy job. Mrs Steve would be welcome to it!


01 Apr 20 - 07:39 AM (#4043544)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

That's very true Steve. He gets soaked to the skin, covered in gunk and manages to splash it all up the conservatory windows. But he seems to enjoy doing it (thank goodness!)
At this very moment he's fence-painting and his black face is covered in Ronseal Medium Oak sploshes, not to mention his old Arsenal football shirt (he's gone off them for some reason)
Being outside in the garden and busy is very therapeutic during this pandemic.
I feel sorry for people trapped in a high-rise flat in a city centre.


01 Apr 20 - 10:23 AM (#4043578)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

I love rock'n'roll songwriter gone.


01 Apr 20 - 12:36 PM (#4043611)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

You want him dead? :^/ make commas common. make comas rare. Compulsive food, wine and compost shoppers stay home for 2 weeks.


01 Apr 20 - 01:08 PM (#4043619)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

My poor sister just sent me a brief email. She's much worse, can't sleep, is boiling hot and extremely weak. Her local vicar is bringing her food. This is about 2 weeks now. What has upset me is that she's given the vicar a list of hymns for her funeral. She can't speak on the phone as she's lost her voice. We're so very worried.


01 Apr 20 - 01:26 PM (#4043623)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Oh, dear, dear Senoufou. Je pense à toi et à elle.


01 Apr 20 - 01:32 PM (#4043625)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: fat B****rd

Thinking of you as always. Eliza x


01 Apr 20 - 01:48 PM (#4043627)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

Thank you so much both of you. It's hard being so far from her, and knowing she lives alone. It seems this virus goes on and on for maybe weeks.
Her vicar contacted 111 on her behalf, but they said she can't be admitted to hospital for several reasons. She's elderly, is managing to breathe although with difficulty, and they're short of places anyway.
She's spent all her working days as a hospital doctor and yet there's no place for her now in her hour of need.
All we can do is carry on praying.


02 Apr 20 - 03:55 PM (#4043664)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Obesity is apparently a factor but hard to separate from the issues obesity gives you.

Marsalis père.

New Orleans should not have had Mardi Gras but, who knew, then.


02 Apr 20 - 04:30 PM (#4043671)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse

Finally, the BBC is suggesting masks, perhaps covering themselves by saying the WHO is now suggesting a sneeze or cough can carry further than earlier thought - as mentioned a couple of weeks ago, seeing those of other nations that have coped relatively well wearing them was enough to convince me.


02 Apr 20 - 08:49 PM (#4043703)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

What is this about it fighting it off not conferring immunity? I had been counting on immunity.


02 Apr 20 - 10:18 PM (#4043716)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Medical supplies from the federal government is being delivered to private companies who then have states and other countries bid on them.
I wonder how George Patton would feel if FDR had let Sherman tanks be put up for auction for even the Germans to bid on?


03 Apr 20 - 02:15 AM (#4043726)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg

general honore, one of the few people who seems to know what he is doing on this, has spoken on the private bidding. It is disgusting. Lawyers need to comb through law books to see how high we can hang them.


03 Apr 20 - 10:33 AM (#4043791)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

They are going back and forth on xhloroquine.


03 Apr 20 - 03:27 PM (#4043852)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The Govenor of Georgia only learned this week that there is a pandemic of non sympmtomatic jock itch carriers that spread the illness. Or something like that.


04 Apr 20 - 09:14 AM (#4043960)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Apparently with billions of people staying home there is less pollution and there are fewer earthquakes!


04 Apr 20 - 05:58 PM (#4044018)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Ok did that orange asshole *really* steal a shipment of medical masks and ventilators heading for Germany?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/mask-wars-coronavirus-outbidding-demand


05 Apr 20 - 07:49 AM (#4044096)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

In this age of favoring the economy over the life spans of people, by the businessman/fascist tactics of the new conservatives, it is actually neccessary to remind YOU that living IS AGING!

While the wealthy ruling class repeat and insist that "the cure must not be worse than the problem", YOU MUST NOT give in to the nonsense that your survival is unimportant compared to doing business.

With enough repetition/hypnosis people can be lured to the cliffs like lemmings. Its happened before. It sounds like it will happen again.
You may not need to be reminded that aging is living but the young are more easily indoctrinated than you.


05 Apr 20 - 08:00 AM (#4044097)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

DO NOT STOP ISOLATION TOO SOON.


05 Apr 20 - 10:27 AM (#4044120)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Right. I am arguing with the idiots in my various meetup groups who are still meeting up.


05 Apr 20 - 10:35 AM (#4044123)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Coronaservatives are not the boss of you.


05 Apr 20 - 10:59 AM (#4044126)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: keberoxu

If you are disgusted with astrology, stop right here, then move on.

This is from New York astrologer Susan Miller, and at the end of the post
a link will be made to her website.
The post, however, will be short and to the point.

Re: Coronavirus TIMING in the calendar year 2020
Three dates:

April 4, 2020

(May 13)    June 30    (September 12) , 2020

November 12, 2020   


Explanation:
The calendar year 2020 and the time cycle for the coronavirus pandemic
will not be a simple event with a rise, one big peak/top, and a fall back towards 'normalcy.'

The pandemic cycle will have TWO high peaks, not one,
and inbetween there is a false low, with one lowest point.

First pandemic peak: April 4, 2020 ... but not the last.

False pandemic 'low point': June 30, 2020;
the pandemic will appear to drop starting May 13,
and will not rise very much before/until September 12.

November 12, 2020 will see the pandemic peak for the SECOND time, and strongly, too.


'Apparent retrograde motion,' an astronomical phenomenon, gets the credit
for bringing three date markers, instead of one, into this cycle.
And the real culprit is the planet Pluto.

The 2020 Coronavirus Outlook


05 Apr 20 - 11:27 AM (#4044133)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

This is hardly the time to be posting claptrap like that.


05 Apr 20 - 03:44 PM (#4044192)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

I don't know, even toe nail clipping future casting has its place.

For example thousands of rental cars went up in flames at a florida airport today. My toe nail clippings predicted it. Wink Wink nudge nudge News


05 Apr 20 - 04:08 PM (#4044195)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Yeah, I met a bloke today who said there's no virus, we can't prove it, and that it's all a big conspiracy. You appear to be in bed with lunatics of that ilk, keberoxu.


05 Apr 20 - 05:02 PM (#4044211)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Helen

Worldometer data and charts for COVID-19 Coronavirus Pandemic

If you want to know more data on a specific country click the hyperlink on the country name on the left hand column. Not all countries have a hyperlink. A useful column for comparison of countries in the spreadsheet is Deaths/1 million population.

For the last two weeks Australia has been using social distancing and non-essential business shutdowns and social isolation. People are expected to stay at home and only go out for essentials like food supplies, medical appointments and essential work. A lot of people are suddenly working from home, including my Hubby.

If you look at the charts most of the negative data are showing a flattening of the curve or even a minor decline.

Unfortunately a decision was made in mid March to allow a cruise ship to dock and passengers disembarked and went to their respective home areas, despite a notification by the medical officer on board advising that some of the passengers and crew were found to be infected with COVID 19. This has been the main source of infections in Australia and contact tracing has been conducted in most of the cases to trace the various infections to contact with someone coming in from overseas. Some contacts have been within the community, however, and these have been more difficult to trace.

The important thing to focus on is that the social distancing and isolation, and the shutdown of non-essential businesses appears to be having a positive effect.

By comparison, look at the U.S. data and the negative charts all show rising cases and rising deaths.

I would suggest that if your government does not tell you to socially isolate yourself then think about doing it for yourself if at all possible.


05 Apr 20 - 06:42 PM (#4044223)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Funny, innit. We get all hoity-toity about our governments and their failings, etc, and all judgemental about wankers we see sunbathing on the beach...

Then something hits you in the guts. Yesterday, a bloke I knew personally died of the bloody thing. That's the first time for me. It's a shuddering thing is that. He was a brilliant musician and I once played a duet on the harmonica with him. There's actually a thread about him above the line. His name is Ted Crum and he was one of the loveliest men you could wish to meet. Damn... :-(


05 Apr 20 - 06:56 PM (#4044225)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Well shit, Steve Shaw. So sorry. My cousin and her daughter are recovering, but I fear for Senoufou's sister.


05 Apr 20 - 07:40 PM (#4044237)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: keberoxu

Has anyone besides me seen this site?

A Mask For All: requires a 3D printer

I don't know who has a 3D printer where I am ...
having said that:
this thing you can download, for free if I get this right,
and the 3D printer will make it
and you assemble it.
The mask frame has a place where you can insert filter material,
thus you can clean the mask when not in used,
and replace a used mask filter with a new clean one.

What do you all think?


05 Apr 20 - 09:34 PM (#4044248)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Marianne Faithfull.


06 Apr 20 - 09:10 AM (#4044381)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And why are the testing tigers in the zoo? Madeleine would say pooh pooh.


06 Apr 20 - 09:44 AM (#4044396)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Our true character shines through masks
But Bank robbers still wear skimasks
While some Red necks wear bandanas
Trumpists proudly wear no masks
Kid masks have smiling bananas
but Democrats wear N-95's


06 Apr 20 - 11:41 AM (#4044426)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

I got a purple-ish silk scarf. No idea where my kelly green one went.

Plays havoc with my claustrophobia, though.

I only wear it when I am out of my house but indoors (doc's office, grocery store). Somehow that last bit came out to the tune of the Beverley Hillbillies (swimming pools, movie stars).


06 Apr 20 - 12:38 PM (#4044440)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Just heard it is at my good friend's old folks' home. Merde.


06 Apr 20 - 03:24 PM (#4044484)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And Virginia is allowing distilleries to ship to people's homes to avoid trips to the liquor store!


06 Apr 20 - 03:30 PM (#4044486)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

In Wash DC the mariquana dispensories are praised by the mayor as being an essential store.


06 Apr 20 - 03:33 PM (#4044488)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

Boris Johnson moved to Intensive Care (BBC News just now).


06 Apr 20 - 04:07 PM (#4044496)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

It's at my mum's care home too. She is 91 and has COPD.

The news about Boris is terrible. Get well, mate...


06 Apr 20 - 05:13 PM (#4044514)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

I was just about to post about Boris. When did he last shake hands with Trump?


06 Apr 20 - 05:21 PM (#4044519)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And Oklahoma has partially stopped the ban on abortions.


06 Apr 20 - 10:51 PM (#4044571)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

A friend of the devil is a friend of mine.
I hope Boris does well in the Horse spittle.
A failure to act is his only sad crime
We can hope his breathe won't get too brittle
What this means is that Covid 19 has stunned
his ace2 receptors deep in the lungs.
The air sacs (avioli) have the ace2 receptors.
If the virus stays in the nose the case may stay mild
but being well behaved is not in virus nature.

ITS OFFICIAL In Chicago the black community is suffering a double
infection rate and is dieing at 7 times the rate of white communities.
The cause is probably education and the nature of their employment.


07 Apr 20 - 12:05 AM (#4044573)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

DC too.

Bad Supreme Court decisions about in-person voting in Wisconsin and I think simewhere else.


07 Apr 20 - 03:46 AM (#4044589)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

I live in fear of hearing that Abidjan cases escalate. Most of the people there are poor, ill-nourished and living in very close proximity, several to a room etc. They are all on curfew, but can go out during the day and mix freely, which seems mad to me.
Also, medical care is practically unobtainable there.

I see that most of the major supermarkets are now allowing only one person to each trolley (no couples) so I'll have to stay in the car while husband does the actual shopping armed with a list.

I hope Boris Johnson pulls through. (and indeed anyone in an ICU)
I read today that two-thirds of those put on a ventilator will die from the virus. Luckily my sister is off hers now and on a drip instead.


07 Apr 20 - 03:55 AM (#4044593)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

Good news, Sen. I hope she’s on her way to a full recovery.
I’m also in the same camp as most others re: Boris Johnson - I’ve never wished I’ll health on anyone, and I wish Mr. Johnson a full and speedy recovery.
Stay well dear lady!


07 Apr 20 - 04:18 AM (#4044597)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

very high temperatures - >40C - are, in themselves, life-threatening and need to be reduced.

As I always say, "life ain't binary". But the advice to the general idiot in the street, currently for COVID-19, is "to avoid ibuprofen and asprin", because they are vaso-dilatory.
If you are in hospital, it is a different context, you have the extended knowledge of experts, who have thermometers and are not afraid to wield them.

Some experts advocate Tylenol which would appear to be nothing more than Paracetamol which has been cited as not much better - and is also antipyretic BTW. Though is not anti-inflammatory which is a plus apparently.


07 Apr 20 - 06:23 AM (#4044622)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Acetaminophen and paracetamol are the same thing, as is Tylenol, which is just a brand name in the US.

Well I've been taking diclofenac (Voltarol) for many years for back pain. It's an NSAID but the advice is to continue taking it, and I am doing. I have better things to worry about.


07 Apr 20 - 09:10 AM (#4044643)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

https://www.technologynetworks.com/immunology/videos/the-coronavirus-outbreak-explained-through-3d-medical-animation-332089


07 Apr 20 - 09:35 AM (#4044645)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin

The problem with NSAIDs is their effect on the immune response to the virus - they drastically reduce it. Paracetamol and microdose aspirin are ok, pain-relief or anti-inflammatory doses of aspirin/NSAIDs seem to be very dangerous right now. Use dihydrocodeine or similar if you really need it. (No idea about gabapentin or amitryptiline).

I haven't seen any research on fhe effects of fever reduction. My take on it is that fever is an anti-viral response, so you want to just let it happen unless it gets dangerously high - and with COVID-19 it rarely seems to get that bad.


07 Apr 20 - 09:45 AM (#4044648)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

No narcotics for me, thanks. I had a terrible experience with tramadol - and I only took it for three weeks. Not only that, it didn't work.


07 Apr 20 - 09:51 AM (#4044651)
Subject: VIRUS DENIERS on TV and radio
From: Donuel

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-republicans-denial-fox-news-trump-war-on-science-20200315.html



https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/04/dr-drew-coronavirus-supercut-restored-to-youtube-after-copyright-takedown/


07 Apr 20 - 10:20 AM (#4044660)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

At the intersection of Disinformation and Hate there are hard core Trump advocates that will not relent their conspiracies even unto their deathbed. We are going to lose quite a few extremists to covid 19.
We are also losing black citizens at a death rate 7 times higher than other communities for a similar but different kind of disinformation and distrust.


07 Apr 20 - 10:25 AM (#4044661)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage

It took me several days to get off of Tramadol after taking it for about 3 weeks for the knee surgery. I had to cut the tablets to taper off of it. It was somewhat helpful for the muscle pain (nothing is completely effective). Is coughing with coronavirus "productive" - do you want to keep coughing? Codeine cough syrup is pretty effective with heavy coughs; I prefer taking guiafed. Are people having to sleep propped up?


07 Apr 20 - 10:52 AM (#4044667)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Article on what might or might not be sn actual symptom: https://slate.com/technology/2020/04/coronavirus-wild-symptoms-correlation.html


07 Apr 20 - 11:59 AM (#4044670)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

A morning productive cough is normal to me.
A dry cough is normally bronchitis,allergies,asthma...
A dry cough with fever should be watched.


07 Apr 20 - 02:36 PM (#4044683)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Helen

Donuel said, "...losing black citizens at a death rate 7 times higher than other communities..."

This is what worries me. The people who cannot afford medical services, the people who are on or near the poverty line, the people who are targeted by the racists, they are all of the people who seem to be fair game in Donald Trump's policies and strategies. I keep seeing in my head the media scenes of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina and what I saw was a country abandoning its people in crisis to a great degree, and most of the people in those media images were black people.


A note on productive coughs: it's a medical term meaning that the cough is "producing" or ejecting phlegm from the lungs. If you can clear the lungs it will help ease the symptoms. Dry coughs tend not to be productive coughs.


07 Apr 20 - 04:01 PM (#4044702)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The racial parameters are not measured in the hospital but are garnered later by calling the morgue. So the figures could be unreliable bu t I fear not. I believe I can see the social and economic reasons. The psych reasons for not trusting whitey and not giving a fuck goes around and comes around. Poverty is a powerful killer.


09 Apr 20 - 07:58 AM (#4044836)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And don't bury John Prine down in the cold cold ground.


09 Apr 20 - 08:48 AM (#4044847)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

Yep, Mr. Prine made it clear how he wants his remains disposed of long ago:

"Please don't bury me
Down in that cold, cold ground
No, I'd rather have 'em cut me up
And pass me all around"

"Throw my brain in a hurricane
And the blind can have my eyes
And the deaf can take both of my ears
If they don't mind the size"


09 Apr 20 - 09:21 AM (#4044852)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

WHAT IS THE AFTERMATH?


I admire thinking ahead. Here are the best macro thinkers on dealing with the now and future.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/19/coronavirus-effect-economy-life-society-analysis-covid-135579


09 Apr 20 - 11:12 AM (#4044879)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Also posted on the Cause thread


Blicky


09 Apr 20 - 01:21 PM (#4044899)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Another of my cousins has it. This one is in the DC area, the others were in Austin.


09 Apr 20 - 03:53 PM (#4044929)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The personal becomes dangerous.

Deborah Tannen is a professor of linguistics at Georgetown and author, most recently, of You’re the Only One I Can Tell: Inside the Language of Women’s Friendships.


On 9/11, Americans discovered we are vulnerable to calamities we thought only happened in distant lands. The 2008 financial crisis told us we also can suffer the calamities of past eras, like the economic meltdown of the Great Depression. Now, the 1918 flu pandemic is a sudden specter in our lives.


This loss of innocence, or complacency, is a new way of being-in-the-world that we can expect to change our doing-in-the-world. We know now that touching things, being with other people and breathing the air in an enclosed space can be risky. How quickly that awareness recedes will be different for different people, but it can never vanish completely for anyone who lived through this year. It could become second nature to recoil from shaking hands or touching our faces—and we might all find we can’t stop washing our hands.


The comfort of being in the presence of others might be replaced by a greater comfort with absence, especially with those we don’t know intimately. Instead of asking, “Is there a reason to do this online?” we’ll be asking, “Is there any good reason to do this in person?”—and might need to be reminded and convinced that there is. Unfortunately, if unintendedly, those without easy access to broadband will be further disadvantaged. The paradox of online communication will be ratcheted up: It creates more distance, yes, but also more connection, as we communicate more often with people who are physically farther and farther away—and who feel safer to us because of that distance.


A new kind of patriotism.

Mark Lawrence Schrad is an associate professor of political science and author of the forthcoming Smashing the Liquor Machine: A Global History of Prohibition.


America has long equated patriotism with the armed forces. But you can’t shoot a virus. Those on the frontlines against coronavirus aren’t conscripts, mercenaries or enlisted men; they are our doctors, nurses, pharmacists, teachers, caregivers, store clerks, utility workers, small-business owners and employees. Like Li Wenliang and the doctors of Wuhan, many are suddenly saddled with unfathomable tasks, compounded by an increased risk of contamination and death they never signed up for.


When all is said and done, perhaps we will recognize their sacrifice as true patriotism, saluting our doctors and nurses, genuflecting and saying, “Thank you for your service,” as we now do for military veterans. We will give them guaranteed health benefits and corporate discounts, and build statues and have holidays for this new class of people who sacrifice their health and their lives for ours. Perhaps, too, we will finally start to understand patriotism more as cultivating the health and life of your community, rather than blowing up someone else’s community. Maybe the de-militarization of American patriotism and love of community will be one of the benefits to come out of this whole awful mess.


09 Apr 20 - 11:41 PM (#4044978)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg

except that the military (composed of both men and women) is increasingly a part of the response to this, and is used to doing things fairly quickly and efficiently. We have a lot to learn from them (us).


10 Apr 20 - 07:00 AM (#4045044)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Patriotism is imho the wrong metaphor. Patriotism would make it right of Trump to steal Germany's masks. Fuck the idea that the citizens of any one country deserve to live more than those of another, sorry.


10 Apr 20 - 09:15 AM (#4045060)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Loop hole allows debt collectors to seize pandemic relief checks and social security checks from those in pandemic need.


10 Apr 20 - 09:49 AM (#4045065)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Just heard on bbc news that the BCG (old tuberculosis vaccine) might work. That would make me happy, my sisters and I all had that. The BCG, not consumption.


10 Apr 20 - 01:57 PM (#4045139)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Males are twice as likely to get infected. The reasons for that are social and the extra X chromosome in females. Breast milk may provide a bit of protection.

The line outside the grocery store was about a quarter mile long.
Distancing and one in one out policy is why.

Drivers are pent up and definetely out for themselves with a me first atttude.

No hamburger. No cleaning products. No frozen foods.

They had milk and cookies.

Grocery baggers are dieing despite being only in their 20's.

The supply chain is suffering.


10 Apr 20 - 02:17 PM (#4045144)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Perhaps, too, we will finally start to understand patriotism more as cultivating the health and life of your community, rather than blowing up someone else’s community. Maybe the de-militarization of American patriotism and love of community will be one of the benefits to come out of this whole awful mess.


10 Apr 20 - 02:55 PM (#4045157)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Men are not more likely to catch it, but they are more likely to die of it.

Also this: https://wsvn.com/news/us-world/smoking-weed-and-coronavirus-even-occasional-use-raises-risk-of-covid-19-complications/


10 Apr 20 - 02:56 PM (#4045158)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And this:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.23.20026864v2


10 Apr 20 - 03:05 PM (#4045160)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons

Males are twice as likely to get infected. The reasons for that are social and the extra X chromosome in females. Breast milk may provide a bit of protection.

So I just need to find a compliant young mum then ;)


10 Apr 20 - 03:41 PM (#4045169)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

With regard to the BCG (protection against TB) vaccine, my sister and I both had it done at 14yrs old, but she recently got Covid.
By the way, she's home at last, very weak and a bit low, but thankful to be back in her Tayside village once more.


10 Apr 20 - 04:20 PM (#4045186)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: fat B****rd

Good to hear, Eliza x


10 Apr 20 - 04:42 PM (#4045189)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

Thank you very much Charlie!


10 Apr 20 - 05:21 PM (#4045199)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Oh Senoufou quel soulagement.


10 Apr 20 - 06:04 PM (#4045205)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

It is reccomended to not go shopping or to the drugstore this week of the peak. They didn't have apples or lettuce or tomatos or cabbage or meat anyway.


10 Apr 20 - 06:13 PM (#4045207)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

Merci bcp Mrrzy, c'est vraiment un énorme soulagement.


11 Apr 20 - 06:45 PM (#4045420)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Thompson

We're having an advance viewing of the horrors that are coming our way if we don't reverse the climate crisis. However, people forget fast. They'll just start driving again as soon as this is over, and soon it will all be over.


11 Apr 20 - 09:45 PM (#4045435)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Now now there is hope with the young


12 Apr 20 - 04:56 PM (#4045686)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Trump says he'll base decisions on "facts and instincts" - I haven't laughed that hard in weeks.


12 Apr 20 - 07:10 PM (#4045698)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

instinct and fact is like going with his gut and underwear for proof.


13 Apr 20 - 01:00 AM (#4045726)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg

how is iran doing? i have not heard anything for a while and the charts that i look at don't show current status.


13 Apr 20 - 02:13 AM (#4045728)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Helen

Hi mg, this data is updated daily and if you click the link on the name of the country you are interested in it will show more detailed data and also charts. I've been looking at this every day.

COVID-19 Coronavirus Pandemic


13 Apr 20 - 02:17 AM (#4045729)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

The cause is probably education and the nature of their employment.

It has been pointed-out that the lower paid/out of work are represented at a higher percentage in the African-American community, and there is a lifestyle dimension too.


13 Apr 20 - 06:09 AM (#4045772)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

worrying opinions on the use of ventilators

Basically some respected medics in the US & Italy are saying that what they see is that COVD-19 causes a lack of oxygen, rather than pneumonia per se. And ventilating with positive pressure does cause lung damage and the sedation has side effects also. It is treatment, a patch, not a re-fit with new parts!
The bottom line is that COVID-19 is new and we are learning, and we do what has worked before. What is needed is not necessarily what was done before.


13 Apr 20 - 08:35 AM (#4045795)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Mr Red
Ventilators are one means to oxygenate blood and remove CO2. It is not the best but is more available and cheaper.
When ventillated;
TOU CAN NOT EAT
YOU CAN NOT TALK
THE CHEAPEST NOURISHMENT IS GLUCOSE DRIP :(not good for diabetics)
20%+ effective in saving life
Sedation or medical Coma is not required but is considered more comfortable.

You've seen the oxygen hoods used as an alternative or intermediary treatment.
Mucus/ (different kind of sputum) from Covis 19 is thicker but not like a fluid suffocating pnumonia.
The X ray of Covid damaged lungs looks more cotton like than dark fluid filled lungs with other pnumonias..
There are attempts to drain lungs.
There are a bevy of medications being tried.

Yes there is room for specific improvement to address damage and symptoms. Standards of care is being treated like a one size fits all.
This is a common problem in all areas of medicine. Perhaps a novel alternative will prove promising by a risk taking smart doctor.

Or you could ask the Stable genius and self proclaimed scientist Steve Shaw for assistance. He is the one who condemened my early pandemic warning in January and did nothing for 2 months.

The clues are there for all to see but the next effective treatments are immunity plasma and vaccines.


13 Apr 20 - 08:47 AM (#4045796)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

If this was WW2 we are at the end of the beggining.
We have yet to discover 'radar' and 'enigma machine'.


14 Apr 20 - 07:30 AM (#4045998)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The US is #1
   Woo Hoo !
The UK is #2
in viral infections


14 Apr 20 - 07:36 AM (#4045999)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick


14 Apr 20 - 09:11 AM (#4046020)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Weirdly enough lying on your stomach improves your lung function and O2 saturation, if you're sick and having trouble with breathing.


14 Apr 20 - 11:41 AM (#4046040)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

tru nuff

If you are far more comfortable resting on your left side, you may have a heart valve disorder. (or acid reflux or sore hip...)


14 Apr 20 - 12:05 PM (#4046046)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

It would be nice if medical recommendations and diagnoses on this forum come exclusively from qualified medical professionals. Cheers.


15 Apr 20 - 09:36 AM (#4046233)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Mine do. I just don't post the link. You can look it up yourself, keeps boredom away.

Our abysmal failure is now being blamed on WHO to the point of defunding. I am ashamed of my government, again.


15 Apr 20 - 10:11 AM (#4046247)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

Deflection of his own guilt by the Orange-Utan (sic) currently stinking-up 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., DC 20500.


15 Apr 20 - 05:02 PM (#4046329)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Virginia has extended its closure of nonessential businesses orders for 2 more weeks. Does not alter the stay-at-home order.


16 Apr 20 - 08:44 AM (#4046427)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Now Covid virus has been found in nasal passages for up to 21 days after regaining health and getting positive antibody testing.


16 Apr 20 - 06:44 PM (#4046566)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

"Sorry, Peons, Stay-at-Home Rules Don’t Apply to Ivanka Trump And Jared Kushner" -Vanity Fair


16 Apr 20 - 09:58 PM (#4046576)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

My source of inside information has dried up. This does not bode well.


16 Apr 20 - 10:51 PM (#4046585)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Oh dear.


17 Apr 20 - 06:57 PM (#4046725)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

RESDEMIMIR WORKS (ebola drug)

Oxychloroquin causes more harm and is stopped by several nations.

China revises death toll by 50%

!0 times the number of citizens have Covid 19 antibodies than early tests revealed. Immunity even with antibodies is now in question.


17 Apr 20 - 08:37 PM (#4046730)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Resdemivir cnn


18 Apr 20 - 01:01 PM (#4046860)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator

Latest from UK, on being questioned whether the government would lift the no recourse to public funds rules for illegal migrants so that those who are displaying symptoms feel safe to seek medical help if displaying symptoms rather than remain in the community the Communities Minister whose name is totally unmemorable stated that the government has no intention of doing so, and it would be down to individual local authorities to find the money for making provision if they so wish. We have a minister who is putting its hostile environment ideology before public health.


18 Apr 20 - 07:51 PM (#4046926)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Ok this is from a fox affiliate, but they quote science: https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/researchers-discover-new-coronavirus-symptoms-feet-lesions


19 Apr 20 - 01:54 PM (#4047056)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: keberoxu

From the Washington Post:

Europe resistant to apps for tracking spread of coronavirus


19 Apr 20 - 02:18 PM (#4047059)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Nieman-Marcus goes bankrupt.


19 Apr 20 - 02:23 PM (#4047062)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Also some post-pandemic advice:

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/5-things-not-to-do-when-coronavirus-quarantine-lockdown-end/#ftag=CAD-00-10aag7d


20 Apr 20 - 07:22 AM (#4047175)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains

Have we all been had?

https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/17/8-more-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/


20 Apr 20 - 08:08 AM (#4047186)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Exercise is good:https://www.dailyprogress.com/news/uva/exercise-an-effective-weapon-against-pandemic-uva-study-finds/article_b4725588-29d8-5d83-a06b-bed9fad60778.html


20 Apr 20 - 08:19 AM (#4047188)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

I'm gaining weight. I don't do superfluous excercise.   I don't even copy and paste if links are not a blue clicky.


20 Apr 20 - 08:41 AM (#4047193)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

"Have we all been had?"

You have, guido jr., many times over.


20 Apr 20 - 08:44 AM (#4047196)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

Squats a compound exercise you can do anywhere.


20 Apr 20 - 09:07 AM (#4047203)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains

Gillymoor I have every confidence in my opinions. I am disappointed you continue the poitless exercise of ad hominem attacks. Are you of the leftward persuasion also?
I wonder what the the collective name for a plurality of experts should be?
A contradiction of experts perhaps?


20 Apr 20 - 09:09 AM (#4047204)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

2i is dissapointed, boo-frickety-hoo.


20 Apr 20 - 01:10 PM (#4047240)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

Gillymoor I have every confidence in my opinions.

That is what Mr Dunning & Mr Kruger found commonly.


20 Apr 20 - 02:04 PM (#4047247)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: David Carter (UK)

Please people, stop posting misinformation. If you have information that a particular drug is effective, or ineffective, post a link to a publication in a peer reviewed journal and don't post at all. And Iains, the link in your post of 20 Apr 20 - 07:22 AM is complete crap from a bunch of tinfoil hat merchants. John Oxford used to have some credibility as a virologist, but in this case he should re-read what he wrote and reflect as to whether he was wise to say it.


20 Apr 20 - 02:22 PM (#4047251)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

What *is* the group name for experts? A panel?


21 Apr 20 - 05:48 AM (#4047352)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

A pressure of

As in has-been drips under........................


21 Apr 20 - 07:31 AM (#4047365)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Posting actual news about the pandemic is practically thread drift at this point but there is actual news as you are awash in all virus news shows 24/7. The word to the wise today is remdesivir


21 Apr 20 - 08:56 AM (#4047382)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

The virus is basically the same the world-over.

In fact one of the positive things about it, in terms of working on a possible vaccine, is that it shows very few & minor mutations wherever it's been tested (unlike common 'flu strains). This is thought to be because of its virulence, if it wasn't more virulent then we would probably see more mutation.

The reason that some otherwise healthy people succumb to the virus, is due to viral load - nothing to do with Johnson not being present at COBRA meetings or what this government has or has not done. If you expose anyone to a high-enough level of viral organisms, or expose them frequently to these organisms, then the viral population in effect overwhelms the immune response. This is what we see in healthcare workers.

If you put someone in an environment where lots of people (or things) around them are infected, or they are coming into close contact with someone (or something) with the virus frequently, then their viral load increases - nothing to do with Johnson not being present at COBRA meetings or what this government has or has not done. That's why distancing & hygiene are so important.

Viral load is person-specific. It doesn't spread. Someone with a higher-viral load doesn't shed the virus at a greater rate again nothing to do with Johnson not being present at COBRA meetings or what this government has or has not done.

The reason why isolating yourself is important if you're infected, is as much to keep yourself safe, as to avoid passing it on to others.


21 Apr 20 - 09:13 AM (#4047388)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

You may well be right about viral load. But I don't know why you attached Boris's non-attendance at those meetings (confirmed by Gove) to it.


21 Apr 20 - 09:14 AM (#4047389)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Um, of course higher viral load means more virus-shedding. One sneeze from a low-load has fewer viri than one sneeze from high-load.

Bavaria has canceled Oktoberfest.


21 Apr 20 - 10:12 AM (#4047399)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Hmm. Once the virus has incubated and you've become symptomatic, or even before that point, the initial virus load would no longer be particularly relevant. And the plural of virus is viruses.


21 Apr 20 - 11:14 AM (#4047412)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: David Carter (UK)

Donuel, that is a study without a control group, of 53 patients. The number at the end who died was consistent within statistical errors with the Chinese studies without the drug. The article mentions that someone else plans to carry out a controlled study of 600 patients. That might give useful information, but not yet.


21 Apr 20 - 11:20 AM (#4047413)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: David Carter (UK)

Bonzo:

"The virus is basically the same the world-over."


Is that right? It may be, but I have seen no study of regional variation in the virus. The Wikipedia page on SARS-COV-2 talks about the difference between it and pangolin viruses, but nothing on regional variation or lack of.


21 Apr 20 - 11:22 AM (#4047414)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: David Carter (UK)

Bonzo again:

"The reason that some otherwise healthy people succumb to the virus, is due to viral load - nothing to do with Johnson not being present at COBRA meetings or what this government has or has not done. If you expose anyone to a high-enough level of viral organisms, or expose them frequently to these organisms, then the viral population in effect overwhelms the immune response. This is what we see in healthcare workers."

Again, can you point to a study to support this? A paper in Lancet maybe?


21 Apr 20 - 12:50 PM (#4047435)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

No, they are wise words from a medical consultant in the family, no more, no less. I don't do studies, I only wear a minimal size anorak !!!!!!!!!!!!


21 Apr 20 - 02:31 PM (#4047465)
Subject: Flu ain't the pandemic
From: Donuel

I wouldn't blame anyone for being impatient. Instant gratification is ingrained in our culture, machines and behavior.
Looking into an ebola drug is thinking outside the box.
Doing the double blind experiments takes a very long time followed by more time. What if there is a connection, what if there isn't?

The mysteries abound and confound.


21 Apr 20 - 03:05 PM (#4047469)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

"The virus is basically the same the world-over."

Is that right? It may be, but I have seen no study of regional variation in the virus. The Wikipedia page on SARS-COV-2 talks about the difference between it and pangolin viruses, but nothing on regional variation or lack of.


There has been research into regional variations. They use techniques that were used to prove archeological migration patterns "out of Africa" and all that. The report I saw was in the Telegrope, and it showed a correlation for Europe & Australia. China was different enough to throw a spanner in the homespun theories of transmission routes. I can't see a Tory bias making that up! The Telegrope is not that subtle.

AND

Yer viral overload results in an over-active immune response where the knowledgeable (on more considered TV) use words like cytokine storm. However you look at it, the body itself attacks you. Hence the temperature.


21 Apr 20 - 05:15 PM (#4047494)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

At first there was a rumor about a couple variants of covid 19 then they said it appears fairly stable and not susceptable to quick mutation. I'm a spectator like everyone else.

The culture war right wingers are ignoring stay at home advisories.
Those politicians who can be bought to open venues like the Vegas Strip and new Shopping Malls are making money. The true red Trumpers are going full goose bonkers to expose themselves to the virus. I will be a spectator to thier mass die off 3 weeks after their grand opening.
The highest fatality rates, which are still only estimations, is about 2%.


21 Apr 20 - 07:17 PM (#4047521)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

This just in on Onion news
More Republicans dieing of the pandemic than Democrats
is proof the virus has a bigotry against the right and is a never Trumper.

Militia General Ratner:
This liberal deep state bio warfare against the far right will not stand. "lock and load - or is it load and lock"


22 Apr 20 - 02:29 AM (#4047553)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

My day off - hooraaaaaaaaaay!!!


22 Apr 20 - 05:40 AM (#4047582)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

Is that the day you go to work?




I'll get my face mask......................


22 Apr 20 - 07:13 AM (#4047600)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

No, I work Monday, Tuesday, Thursday & Friday - at home of course at the moment via Teamviewer to our office server. Not the most satisfactory way of working at the moment, because file transfer speeds have been slow this week.


22 Apr 20 - 10:00 AM (#4047612)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

If someone is put on a ventillator due to Covid 19 their chance for survival is only 20%. It is a rare enough event to recover, some hospitals have a protocol of celebrating a recovered patient's release with applause at the exit to the music of Rocky.

Those who are ventilated are put in a medical coma which sometimes leads to blood clots and pulmonary embollisms from the lack of movement. This results in leg amputations when clots are found early.

This 'coroner' virus is a brute but so is the standard care for serious cases.


22 Apr 20 - 12:06 PM (#4047626)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And now this: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/first-u-s-coronavirus-fatality-found-three-weeks-earlier-than-previously-known.html


22 Apr 20 - 12:14 PM (#4047627)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse

Trump should extend his temporary freeze on immigration to a PERMANENT one - respecting Native American/Amerindian/First Nation "Land Rights"
.


22 Apr 20 - 12:27 PM (#4047630)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback

Just what the world needs - more crap "poetry"[sic].


22 Apr 20 - 12:46 PM (#4047631)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

David Carter UK,
the concept of 'Viral Load' was initially my opinion of one possible factor in infection as reasoned from a occams razor simplistic POV.

Age and Underlying conditions remains a known primary factor.

This 'load' factor is untested to my knowledge, so blame me for the speculation. I can not prove this load theory but I do not see that thinking should be discouraged.
^^^^^^^

The US Attorney General Bill Barr says if people sue to be free of what he calls house arrest, the governmnt will side against strict States and side with plaintiffs.
Bill Barr is on the side of genocide


22 Apr 20 - 01:04 PM (#4047634)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

SING ALONG


22 Apr 20 - 02:26 PM (#4047648)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Also this is likely why that giy had his leg amputated: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/22/coronavirus-blood-clots/

Also survivors may be left with badly trashed kidneys and hearts, not just lungs.


22 Apr 20 - 06:16 PM (#4047691)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg

it's bad for sure. a ray of good news this morning on twitter..out of a yale lab. look it up yourselves or don't believe me. your choice. said that tests via saliva vs. nasal swabs were superior in results. It seems it would also cut down on personnel. I wonder if all the genealogy labs working with saliva kits could be pressed into service or at least provide expertise. Would not require as much exposure of personnel.

I can not imagine that viral load would not be a huge factor. Constant reexposure, such as in a nursing home, must be really bad. there have to be explanations for the high number of deaths both of staff and residents, athough I do believe many were slow to institute lockdowns etc.


23 Apr 20 - 09:12 AM (#4047831)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Not just the bottoms of the feet: https://kfor.com/news/covid-toes-puzzling-condition-a-possible-coronavirus-symptom-mostly-seen-in-young-people/


23 Apr 20 - 10:47 AM (#4047854)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

My local drug store is locked up. Nobody there to staff it?


23 Apr 20 - 12:23 PM (#4047866)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

This might be helpful, though not exactly new news: info on how long the virus lives outside people:

https://www.webmd.com/lung/how-long-covid-19-lives-on-surfaces


23 Apr 20 - 12:45 PM (#4047874)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

While you don't have to eat meat, how long does virus live on raw refridgerated meats?

We don't know but Drs have said That Covid is a respiratory/eye/nose throat threat, its safe to eat Covid.

They really don't know, they just make best guesses.
Handling raw meat should be done VERY cautiously

Lots of meat packing plants are closed due to mass infections.


23 Apr 20 - 03:42 PM (#4047905)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

The packers, not the meat, are infected.


23 Apr 20 - 03:49 PM (#4047911)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Elizabeth Warren just lost a brother to the virus.


23 Apr 20 - 06:08 PM (#4047946)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Have you done experiments on how long the virus lives on moist raw meat?

A covid vaccine started human trials today. It contains the protien of the corona spikes.

There are about 70 entities developing vaccines.


24 Apr 20 - 02:03 AM (#4048004)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

UK human Trial in 2 Universities started.


24 Apr 20 - 06:54 AM (#4048051)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Within thirty seconds of my arriving in the fruit and veg aisle in Bude Morrison's yesterday, a masked man and a masked woman, not with each other, barged within one foot of me at the bagged lettuce shelf. An unscientific sample of two, maybe, but it made me suspect that mask-wearing may not be the panacea...


24 Apr 20 - 07:18 AM (#4048056)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

I hope everyone puts a shot of Lysol in their coffee this morning per the suggestion of the Idiot in Chief.


24 Apr 20 - 07:29 AM (#4048059)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-drink-inject-disinfectant-bleach-us-dettol-rb-lysol-094417426.html


24 Apr 20 - 08:13 AM (#4048072)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

I don't do the experiments but the reason the packing plants closed is the workers being too sick to pack, not the meat being contaminated.
I have already posted a link to how long this virus lives on various things. Dead meat is not a live host.


24 Apr 20 - 08:20 AM (#4048079)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

I gotta hunch that napalm destroys the corona virus better than lysol.
Ask your Dr.if this is good for you.


24 Apr 20 - 10:21 AM (#4048130)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback

Stephen Fry Reveals How Right-Wing Media Crippled America’s Coronavirus Defense

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stephen-fry-fox-news-trump_n_5ea23e27c5b669fd8921e3a3


24 Apr 20 - 12:59 PM (#4048175)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

My toes are officially curled. It's in the eyes, like ebola.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Researchers-found-coronavirus-in-a-patient-s-eyes-15223616.php


24 Apr 20 - 01:09 PM (#4048181)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

I have noticed a great deal of pink eye among those interviewed on TV
Nurses, doctors, recovered patients etc.)


24 Apr 20 - 01:28 PM (#4048190)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

Now twitler is claiming that his disinfectant discourse last evening was sarcasm directed at reporters which was clearly not the case. There is no end to the mendacity.


24 Apr 20 - 01:32 PM (#4048196)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Oh yeah? In their own words


24 Apr 20 - 07:32 PM (#4048269)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Local news (npr) said that in our area over a dozen emergency responses were made to people who had applied various disinfectants to their bodys


24 Apr 20 - 07:59 PM (#4048270)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

20% increase in disinfectant poisoning


25 Apr 20 - 04:02 AM (#4048305)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

Interesting to see where Agent Orange got his duff info from...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-leader-group-peddling-bleach-cure-lobbied-trump-coronavirus


25 Apr 20 - 05:57 AM (#4048318)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

Arsenicum Alb might be considered helpful, despite idiot NHS doctors scorn of homeopathy!!!


25 Apr 20 - 05:59 AM (#4048320)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

Ah, you’re a qualified doctor and medical research specialist, as well as an accountant, Bonz?

Who knew?


25 Apr 20 - 08:15 AM (#4048358)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

Mercifully the White House reports that the Disinfector in Chief is going to pare back appearances at the daily task force "briefings" after turning tail before answering what would have been highly embarrassing disinfectant questions for him at last night's truncated "briefing".
Don't drink bleach.


25 Apr 20 - 01:20 PM (#4048405)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Kim jong un is apparently probably dead.


25 Apr 20 - 02:33 PM (#4048420)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick

Over on the UK Politics thread, I made a mistake when I replied to a post, not realising that it was a joke. As it happens, my reply there is more or less appropriate here:-


Never set any store on information that includes the word "apparently".

DC


25 Apr 20 - 03:12 PM (#4048425)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

Apparently probably is surely an oxymoron!!


25 Apr 20 - 03:26 PM (#4048427)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

I wonder if the NK's sent Kim out with one of the anti-aircraft gun salutes that he was so fond of. Poor trump loses his soulmate.


25 Apr 20 - 03:47 PM (#4048429)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

Two rumours circulating - (1) Kim Jong Un is dead, and (2) he’s in a vegetative state after an operation to implant a stent went wrong. (nytimes).


25 Apr 20 - 03:58 PM (#4048433)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

He's been in a vegetative state his whole life. So what's new.


26 Apr 20 - 12:46 PM (#4048661)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

CDC adds symptoms: https://abc7chicago.com/health/cdc-adds-6-new-possible-symptoms-of-covid-19/6130502/


26 Apr 20 - 12:50 PM (#4048665)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Posted this on wrong thread earlier, oops.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/23/21232665/north-korea-kim-jong-un-coronavirus-sick


26 Apr 20 - 05:07 PM (#4048723)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

A Spoonful of Clorox by Randy Rainbow


27 Apr 20 - 08:16 AM (#4048843)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/


27 Apr 20 - 09:42 AM (#4048884)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Not yet news but will be soon: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/27/covid-19-quickly-kills-some-while-others-dont-show-symptoms-can-genetics-explain-this/


27 Apr 20 - 10:17 AM (#4048896)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

It's got elements of hemorrhagic issues, young folks having strokes and apmutations, scary af:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/we-still-dont-know-how-the-coronavirus-is-killing-us.html


27 Apr 20 - 03:00 PM (#4048953)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Thats why I thought resdemivir was smart. ebola was hemmoragic.

An app mutation sounds like tech theft.

Most of our genetic information is unknown. They used to call it junk dna. It may contain info to combat long extinct threats. Most of the unknown dna has since been identified as instructions to make specific protiens.
Its not the number of our genes but the info inside them. Some worms have more genes than me.

Wouldn't it be great to just turn on the correct gene to battle covid 19 or find it and CRISPER it into your system? This would even give your descendants immunity. This kind of genetic medicine is only a possibility, not a reality.


28 Apr 20 - 10:09 AM (#4049105)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

The opposite of hemorrhagic, oops, my bad:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/podcasts/post-reports/the-mysterious-clotting-in-covid19-patients/?itid=hp_audio-homepage-low-mweb_pr-main-player-low%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans


28 Apr 20 - 10:34 AM (#4049109)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Also inflammation of the blood vessels in children: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/27/health/children-covid-19-illness-intl-scli-gbr/index.html


28 Apr 20 - 11:40 AM (#4049119)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Virus are not alive like flora or fauna. Nor are they life but rather exist in a grey zone of biota. Are they dead or alive ?


28 Apr 20 - 03:03 PM (#4049156)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs


28 Apr 20 - 03:10 PM (#4049159)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

300


28 Apr 20 - 03:56 PM (#4049166)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Well, viruses contain protein and nucleic acid, they can reproduce and they are subject to natural selection. Debating as to whether they are alive or not is a bit pointless.


28 Apr 20 - 06:01 PM (#4049184)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick

Debating as to whether they are alive or not is a bit pointless.

But do viruses have rights?
DC


28 Apr 20 - 07:26 PM (#4049199)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Meanwhile dogs are getting it too. Besides cats, I mean.


29 Apr 20 - 04:14 AM (#4049255)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

In NZ they are selling home deliveries of drinks called Lock Down

She be right, mate.


29 Apr 20 - 08:20 AM (#4049305)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Hmmm... Smokers not at higher risk?

https://slate.com/technology/2020/04/coronavirus-smoking-nicotine.html


29 Apr 20 - 11:34 AM (#4049343)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And now hives.

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/covid-toes-hives-skin-conditions-133004928.html

I insist that my starting to get hives again after years is a sympton of stress and inactivity!


29 Apr 20 - 11:41 AM (#4049346)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

Aren’t hives those things that bees live in?


29 Apr 20 - 12:08 PM (#4049348)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback

Nope. Them are skeps.


29 Apr 20 - 12:14 PM (#4049350)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

Nah, skeps are this big steel containers used to dump rubbish in....


29 Apr 20 - 12:19 PM (#4049352)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Rain Dog

I always thought it was a hive of activity not inactivity.


29 Apr 20 - 06:15 PM (#4049416)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Resdemivir makes progess reducing Covid symptoms by 4 days. Fauci gives it a thumbs up.


29 Apr 20 - 06:32 PM (#4049421)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

2 things in the Telegrope today.

1) they say experts are predicting the second wave will come in the winter. Sorry NZ, you have it licked, fer now, but............ There is a feeling that summer warmth and humidity will suppress COVID-19. And 'flu & colds (which sometimes are coronaviruses) typically show a seasonal variation.

2) the biggest vaccine manufacturer in the world is starting production on the Oxford Uni version (currently in human trials), switching from mumps etc. The Indian company is privately owned and the billionaire owner is able to make the bet not having sareholders/dividends to concern him. If he wins, he wins big. The Indian market is big enough on its own. Mind you, as I understand the methodology, it takes months to get the first batch.


30 Apr 20 - 01:54 AM (#4049474)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

Wiki on Remdesivir (re COVID-19)


30 Apr 20 - 04:57 PM (#4049622)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

I had quite a disturbing email from my sister yesterday. In it she explained she can't speak as her throat is so sore. Her lungs are very painful and she can hardly walk without gasping for breath. She isn't sleeping well and is terribly worried that the virus has damaged her permanently. She first developed it about five weeks ago, and was discharged from the hospital two weeks ago, after having had ventilation and being on a drip.
She used to be so active and fit, but she fears her life has become a limited existence of tottering around in a feeble state.
I've heard that it can have long-term/permanent effects post-virally.


30 Apr 20 - 06:14 PM (#4049626)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Well that's difficult to say as the virus has only been around for four or five months. Take this as an optimistic remark.


01 May 20 - 05:47 AM (#4049700)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

Thanks Steve, I will. As you say, the virus hasn't been around long enough for the after-effects to be scientifically assessed. Anecdotal evidence doesn't carry much weight in my opinion. But being a retired doctor, she can see the gravity of her state, which is sad.


01 May 20 - 09:59 AM (#4049754)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Forces à ta sœur, Senoufou.


01 May 20 - 10:36 AM (#4049763)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

I see Trump is back to claiming the virus originated in the Wuhan Institute of Virology (which, if i understand correctly, closed abruptly about the time we began to hear about the virus beginning to become serious in China).

Curiouser and curiouser...


01 May 20 - 11:12 AM (#4049766)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

Merci bcp Mrrzy. J'ai soucis pour elle franchement, elle plonge en désespoire.
It is curious Backwoodsman. If that Virology place was so insecurely managed, it should be permanently closed and the 'resident' viruses killed off. But what Trump says gets madder and madder doesn't it? I'm afraid his cheese has completely slid off his cracker!


01 May 20 - 02:58 PM (#4049809)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback

Its not "curious" at all. Just President Lying-Sack-Of-Shit desperately trying to shift blame for his serial fuckups to anyone and everyone he can think of.

And the brain-dead Trumpist dickheads will believe his conspiracy theory bullshit.

Be afraid.


01 May 20 - 03:58 PM (#4049819)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: fat B****rd

Sending late best thoughts Eliza.
Charlie x


01 May 20 - 04:04 PM (#4049822)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Understood but Senofou is using the word curious in a most wonderful way as in 'discovery' or seeking discovery.
Multiple organ damage may occur but there may be treatments for even that as in stem cell tretments from ones own body.
More time is needed.

Beware of rhetorical questions Mossback


01 May 20 - 04:32 PM (#4049826)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

Thank you so much Charlie, your kind thoughts really help to reassure me.
At least my sister is eating properly - she has lots of batch-cooked meals in her freezer which she made long before the virus struck.
I see that Korea are now saying people cannot get Covid19 twice after all. That's encouraging isn't it?


01 May 20 - 05:28 PM (#4049835)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Ooh that would be great.


01 May 20 - 05:50 PM (#4049845)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Fauci has been working for decades to make a flu vaccine for ALL flu by working with the rod protein all flus share.

btw the White house has blocked Fauci from testifying in Congress


01 May 20 - 06:20 PM (#4049852)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

"promised 100k tests a day by the end of April.

On 30th April, 122,347 tests were completed.

Promise made. Promise delivered"


01 May 20 - 06:29 PM (#4049855)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback

Beware of rhetorical questions Mossback

Beware of reality and factual information, Don - you're sliding into Trumpism.

Bozo: Bullshit Stated - Bullshit Delivered.


01 May 20 - 07:12 PM (#4049865)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

"On 30th April, 122,347 tests were completed."

Not so, Mudcat's Croydon Eye. A third of those tests were sent out by post and no-one knows how many were either received on time or actually carried out.   Comment is free but facts are sacred.


02 May 20 - 02:30 AM (#4049887)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

Well done @MattHancock   All the doubters vanquished and the lefties now will have to find another issue to spread doom and gloom #testing


02 May 20 - 03:34 AM (#4049892)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse

Many BAME are suffering COVID19 (& rickets) in England (& New York) due to mass economic/CAPITALIST immigration in defiance of EVOLUTION - i.e., darker skin DOES need more sunlight for enough vitaminD to be healthy & we are too far from the equator for them; my poem, from WalkaboutsVerse on "Repatriating"


02 May 20 - 03:42 AM (#4049893)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

I'm determined to come out of lockdown with new stuff. I’ve just signed up for an online archeology course


02 May 20 - 03:50 AM (#4049896)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

My husband had slight rickets when I first met him; his legs are a bit curved. He hadn't had a good diet from infancy (just white rice and a few vegetables).
The sun in his homeland is very strong of course, but it didn't seem to rectify the lack of vitamin D. He takes supplements now, and eats plenty of vitamin D-rich food.
Bonzo, archaeology sounds extremely interesting! I agree it's a good idea to profit from the Lockdown and study something.
(for me - Crumpetology?)


02 May 20 - 03:57 AM (#4049898)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

Archaeology eh, Bonz? A very appropriate course to be studied by an Anachronism.


02 May 20 - 04:21 AM (#4049900)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

Think about the wording!!


02 May 20 - 09:29 AM (#4049937)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Bame?


02 May 20 - 11:22 AM (#4049962)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage

Don't ask, he'll just send more bad poetry your way.


02 May 20 - 11:33 AM (#4049964)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick

BAME:- Black, Asian, minority ethnic.

i.e. non white.

DC


02 May 20 - 12:18 PM (#4049967)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: The Sandman

bonzo , i notice your posts are a trifle dogmatic


02 May 20 - 12:40 PM (#4049978)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Hows this for dogmatic

1. Oh my name it is nothin'
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I's taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that land that I live in
Has God on its side.
2. Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh the country was young
With God on its side.
3. Oh the Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
I's made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side.
4. Oh the First World War, boys
It came and it went
The reason for fighting
I never did get
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead
When God's on your side.
5. When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And then we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.
6. I've learned to hate the Russians
All through my whole life
If another war comes
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side.
7. But now we got weapons
Of biological dust
If fire them we're forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God's on your side.
8. Through isolation days
I've heard old war cries
between the blues and greys
Reds say $ is above lives
Some blame it on the yellow
You'll have to decide
Who rings most hollow
had God on his side.
9. So now as I'm coughin'
I'm weary as hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
no tongue can tell
I hear myself sayin
if God's on our side
He'll stop the next war
and won't let it hide.

Walkabout Don


03 May 20 - 05:38 AM (#4050083)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

"bonzo , i notice your posts are a trifle dogmatic"

So they are! Our greyhound in her lockdownness decided to dig a hole in the lower level of our garden this morning until I bribed her away with treats!!


03 May 20 - 08:27 AM (#4050108)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Ah, thanks. Like POC.


03 May 20 - 09:09 AM (#4050118)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Kids being potty trained are virtually immune to Covid 19 so Trump suggested older people could shit their pants for similar results :^/


04 May 20 - 09:14 AM (#4050361)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Happy (silent) hypoxia

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/03/happy-hypoxia-unusual-coronavirus-effect-baffles-doctors


04 May 20 - 12:08 PM (#4050421)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The coming pandemic -Austrailian documentary version
Is highly informative!


04 May 20 - 12:10 PM (#4050423)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/03/happy-hypoxia-unusual-coronavirus-effect-baffles-doctors

good catch Mrrzy


04 May 20 - 06:16 PM (#4050518)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Also this, which I find encouraging:

Hey I can do blickies again!


05 May 20 - 06:21 AM (#4050581)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

47D11 go team go


05 May 20 - 08:23 AM (#4050607)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

Trump's push to prematurely open up could be deadly:

NYTimes


05 May 20 - 08:30 AM (#4050610)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

I heard it will magically disappear in April
Is it April yet?


05 May 20 - 09:44 AM (#4050619)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Children have been being misdiagnosed, rather than not getting it, as it seems to present differently:

Blicky


06 May 20 - 09:57 AM (#4050832)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

It's not news yet but interesting research is being done on twins and siblings, seems symptomology roughly 50% genetics so far...

Blicky


06 May 20 - 11:27 AM (#4050849)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage

The twins and sibs cited in this article lived together in the same environment and had underlying health risks.

“These deaths alert people to the fact that this could be genetic, but when people live together they share an environment as well,” Spector said. The upshot is that twins who live together are more likely to have similar lifestyles and behaviours, from diet and exercise habits to how quickly they seek medical care. Twins are not generally less healthy than the wider population. . . . “When twins or siblings tragically die with Covid-19 that captures our attention, but that doesn’t mean there’s any particular reason to think twins or siblings are at greater risk.”


06 May 20 - 12:37 PM (#4050864)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

Fatsos beware.


06 May 20 - 02:27 PM (#4050881)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback

" Live And Let Die."

You can't make this shit up.

HEIL TRUMP!


07 May 20 - 11:20 AM (#4051037)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Argh. My uncle is dying of old age and his old folks' home won't even let his children come say goodbye, let alone meeeeeeeee.


07 May 20 - 05:07 PM (#4051100)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

Latest lunacy from a USAian - a federal judge in the US has ordered Massachusetts authorities to allow gun shops to reopen, suggesting a rule to close them during the coronavirus crisis imposed an “improper burden” on the constitutional rights of citizens.

Gun shops were closed in March along with other businesses deemed non-essential.

However, some purchasers, retailers and gun rights groups sued, arguing it was an unconstitutional ban on acquiring firearms and ammunition for self-defence purposes.

US district judge Douglas Woodlock said he would direct the state to allow gun shops to reopen on Saturday with social distancing measures.

Absolute bollocks


08 May 20 - 01:39 PM (#4051270)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Seriously.

Also this:

Apparently blood thinners help, not with preventing it but with surviving it: blicky


08 May 20 - 04:54 PM (#4051302)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Guess who makes the world supply of blood thinners?


08 May 20 - 05:08 PM (#4051305)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The realistic number of those infected in the US is somewhere between a minimum of 10 million and a maximum of unknown.

The stated infected numbers are arrant nonsense.


08 May 20 - 06:46 PM (#4051328)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

There is no "world supply" of blood thinners. Go chew some willow bark, or eat a lot of garlic, or befriend an organic chemist...


09 May 20 - 03:48 AM (#4051363)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

Wise thoughts concerning care homes:

"With and without irregularities what did they expect to happen to the geriatrics? Attendees can't keep social distance if they have to wash them, feed them, move them, changing sheets, medicating...
Doctors and employees don't live there... they have to move, they are potential virus carriers.

Just like us if we go visiting "unnecessarily"

And we can also infect being asymptomatic!"


09 May 20 - 05:16 AM (#4051374)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

That's all true except for the fact that we're not allowed to visit. I used to see my mum four times a week. I haven't seen her now for two months. The other hazards you mention are very difficult to reduce.


09 May 20 - 09:18 AM (#4051403)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The US relies on China for 90% of antibiotics.
https://www.cfr.org/blog/us-dependence-pharmaceutical-products-china

When it comes to Heparin
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-110hhrg53183/html/CHRG-110hhrg53183.htm

The US will not join or speak to the 8 Billion Euro vaccine quest.


09 May 20 - 09:45 AM (#4051413)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Siegfried lost Roy


09 May 20 - 09:48 AM (#4051414)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

Anyone heard of Hydronium ? H3 O+

I was listening to a Youtube video about Lithium Ion batteries and the guy who developed GM's batteries until 7 years ago when he went to china to develop Lithium Ion for CATL. A big fish in battery technology who also majored in biology as a student.

The subject came up about Tygrus (Troy, Michigan) who had an improved method of obtaining it. No mention of volumes or cost.

But what was said is that it is benign to Eukaryotes (anything built from cells with a cell wall - like us) and kills 99.999% of viruses, in one minute (he pointed out kill was a misnomer but you get the idea). What was not said was its effect on bacteria (non eukaryotic), which I would compare to penicillin in that if it kills so many bacteria there are side-effects, like the shits.

My point here is: "is this the disinfectant that Twitler referred to?". Him being limited on any subject that doesn't include him.


09 May 20 - 10:16 AM (#4051420)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

Tygrus on LinkedIn

About Us
Tygrus is a platform technology company that has innovative, proprietary chemistries and systems for use across a wide range of industries from water and industrial waste stream remediation to industrial cleaning solutions and food processing.


09 May 20 - 01:50 PM (#4051470)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Sounds like hydronium could also make a wet battery heavier than lithium. I'm spitballing like Trump.

Most water will have some hydronium in it


10 May 20 - 12:50 PM (#4051646)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

An NHS worker we know, when asked - if the NHS Nightingale hospitals are empty, why are Covid 19 patients in our private hospitals, replied that maybe because it limits the travel of the virus. If people isolated as locally as possible, maybe it contains the virus to the area that they are in. Rather than taking the virus to another area where the virus already is too, and making the virus stronger there.

A lot of sense in that.


11 May 20 - 02:41 PM (#4051846)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Shanghai opens Disneyland singing "its a microscopic world afterall"


11 May 20 - 04:35 PM (#4051859)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

New symptomogies here.


11 May 20 - 04:52 PM (#4051861)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage

More than four months of clinical experience across Asia, Europe and North America has shown the pathogen does much more than invade the lungs. “No one was expecting a disease that would not fit the pattern of pneumonia and respiratory illness,” said David Reich, a cardiac anesthesiologist and president of Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City.

It attacks the heart, weakening its muscles and disrupting its critical rhythm. It savages kidneys so badly some hospitals have run short of dialysis equipment. It crawls along the nervous system, destroying taste and smell and occasionally reaching the brain. It creates blood clots that can kill with sudden efficiency and inflames blood vessels throughout the body.


Talk about a moving target.


12 May 20 - 02:40 AM (#4051915)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

Covid toes
it can present with skin problems, a bit like chilblains I have heard.

We have seen almost a hive-like rash ............ It’s hard for us to know if this is a viral manifestation or an immune response

- Right Oh, right toe.






I'll get my surgical gown.


12 May 20 - 02:47 PM (#4052078)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Cytokine Storm

How an immune system has evolved, developed, how efficient, super efficient or lacking all play a role in the response to Covod 19. It is not surprising that various immune reponses act differently.

Sorry that merely understanding this does not help.


13 May 20 - 05:31 AM (#4052181)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

It attacks the heart, weakening its muscles and disrupting its critical rhythm.

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell I would dispute the contention that we would not expect it to affect any of our muscles. Ask anyone who had ME/Yuppy 'flu/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. The virus (Epstein Barr, Cocksackie B, etc) lives in the muscles and every time you get a cold the muscles weaken. It re-awakens the virus. FWIW Glandular Fever is a manifestation of the Epstein Barr virus and that is a chronic condition.

In the 80s, my doctor thought it was psychological, I insisted on a second opinion, I had the tests, and the specialist said "you had a virus". "Which one?" says I. "We don't know".

Thanks - but that is what I told the bloody doctor in the first place.
3 years later I saw a TV prog and my evidence fitted about ½ of all symptoms. In a syndrome you don't get them all.

My solution at the time was to fight it, eg run up stairs and get the pain at the top, not on each step. Apparently fighting psychologically is deemed a good methodology. But how fit would I be now without that burden? Who knows, you habituate to the new norm, like a poorer short term memory. It is what it is.


13 May 20 - 09:24 AM (#4052227)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Men have more of an enzyme that helps Covid to enter cells of the heart kidney and lungs.

Avoid buffets like the plague.


13 May 20 - 08:32 PM (#4052334)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Good News - The death toll was overestimated by half according to Trump and Dr. Birx.

The 'inflated' death total included people who only had the virus but died from falling down stairs, or that they were going to die anyway and didn't die directly from Corona virus.

Dr. Fauci said the opposite. The numbers are under estimated.

Trump responded "I like the numbers where they are, I don't want the numbers to double. Dr. Fauci is unacceptable."


14 May 20 - 12:52 AM (#4052364)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Ebbie

Donuel, I sometimes enjoy your posts but among the things for which I am grateful is that you are not a journalist. Your reporting is specious.


14 May 20 - 01:27 AM (#4052368)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Since Dave Berry is retired I gotta do my own Dave Berry.
By using anachronistic facts, the absurdity shines even brighter.
Hey Ebbie this milk smells funny...you drink it.


14 May 20 - 09:53 AM (#4052432)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Barry, dude.

Loud talking:https://m.jpost.com/health-science/loud-speech-can-leave-coronavirus-in-air-for-up-to-14-minutes-study-627972/amp

Blicky


14 May 20 - 01:46 PM (#4052470)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

Former CDC Intel Officer Dr. Rishi Desai on Why It's Hard to Get a Grip on the Coronavirus Pandemic

It is 50 minutes long, but one thing caught my attention. The doc was saying the virus, when it finds its way to the bloodstream, results in a reduced ability for the blood to transport oxygen. Which supports the contention I have seen elsewhere (and posted here) that ventilating, per se, is not that effective.

And Sir Peter Piot (formost authority on pandemics!) has done videos on the effects of the virus that he has only just got through, er still recovering!
He tells of kidney damage, lack of strength, and more.

When you put it together with the lack of oxygen in the blood, - organ damage is understandable. Peter Piot is saying "You don't want this disease".

I believe him, I believe him!


14 May 20 - 01:51 PM (#4052472)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

lack of oxygen in the blood, and headaches? wasn't that one of the symptoms?


14 May 20 - 04:08 PM (#4052502)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

There is a benefit to putting patients in a coma with a ventllator but it benefits doctors and nurses in terms of being able to tend to people who are conscious and breathing. It is true that sometimes forcing air into sore lungs is beneficial.
It is partly a matter of emotional relief. Some people are stressed hearing a baby cry. Hearing 200 people choking to death is stressful.
I would not condemn anyone who has to make survival choices when there are so few choices one can make.


15 May 20 - 07:56 AM (#4052585)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Good views of US data here

https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/USA-TRENDS/dgkvlgkrkpb/index.html?utm_source=digg


15 May 20 - 08:19 AM (#4052592)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And international pretty graphs here


15 May 20 - 07:39 PM (#4052679)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Lets decide not to rush to a vaccine
When Gerald Ford was President we had an epidemic of swine flu. They rushed a vaccine to market in only six months. We got to see Gerry get his shot on TV. Something else was brewed inside the eggs that grew the vaccine. It was a rare nerurological disease called petite Barr syndrome. I got the shot in the morning and by the time I was doing the dishes after lunch the brew reached my motor nerves. It was as quick as a light switch. One second I'm wiping a dish and suddenly I was on the floor with the odd sensation of no sensation of controling my muscles. I thought of my cello teacher who was struck by polio for his lifetime. It was months before the reason for my collapse was reluctantly made clear. I had time for many thoughts and wonders.
The biggest wonder was discovering the automatic switch to somehow raise myself back to standing on my feet.

It was similar to being shot at but missed. But thats another story.


17 May 20 - 09:32 AM (#4053038)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And what about llamas? You guys hear about this?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/16/llama-coronavirus-antibodies-study-benefits


17 May 20 - 12:54 PM (#4053105)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

Interesting that Croydon University Hospital now only holds 50 coronavirus cases - down from 250 a short while ago, thus proving success of lockdown.


17 May 20 - 01:30 PM (#4053114)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Good news, that.

Interesting advice here:

https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/are-you-wearing-gloves-a-mask-to-the-shops-you-might-be-doing-it-wrong/amp


18 May 20 - 05:55 AM (#4053249)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/are-you-wearing-gloves-a-mask-to-the-shops-you-might-be-doing-it-wrong/amp

From what I am hearing, vitamin D is generally helpful in limiting the widespreadness/severity of a lot of viruses. My question is regarding the correlation between the seasonal variations of 'flu-like infections and vitamin D production when sunshine is more prevalent. I feel sure it has been well researched, - enough for me to get the tablets, despite the sunny days we are experiencing. Lockdown means I am indoors much more. And dosage levels and toxicity are far apart with vitamin D, apparently. eg 15 µg cf 100 max safe recommended, though even that is not widely certain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#Immune_system


18 May 20 - 06:53 AM (#4053265)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

"Croydon University"

Surely the juxtaposition of these two words is an oxymoron...? :-)

I should think that the government is hoping against hope that summer will largely nobble the virus, at least for a time. It isn't easy to work out why some viruses are seasonal. Sunshine and Vitamin D may be a factor but it's hard to pin down as such. I suppose high UV levels will help to shorten the viability of viruses on outdoor surfaces, including human skin and clothing, and in aerosols. As they say in Tesco, every little helps.


18 May 20 - 07:29 AM (#4053273)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

What are the results of the pandemic?:

The US is 4.3 % of the global population

but has 30% of the deaths from Covid globally

Today
Global deaths      315,000
United States deaths 95,000

WE ARE #1


18 May 20 - 08:44 AM (#4053290)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Go


18 May 20 - 08:45 AM (#4053291)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Oops twitchy.

Canada crashed plane doing thank-you flyover, oops. Let's just all clap at 7pm, ok?


19 May 20 - 08:21 AM (#4053587)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

Dr. Agent-Orange MD at it again, recommending Hydroxychloroquine and boasting that he takes it to prevent being infected by Covid-19.

And Americans seriously propose to elect this completely insane geriatric to be their President again?

God Help America!


19 May 20 - 09:25 AM (#4053600)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback

With any luck, the dumb bastard will kill himself.

Unless, of course, its simply one more lie to gull his moron cult members.


19 May 20 - 09:34 AM (#4053601)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman

Ha! What’s one more lie amongst the myriad that have gone before...??


19 May 20 - 09:58 AM (#4053610)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Speaking of lies...

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/05/world/worldometer-coronavirus-mystery/

Blicky


19 May 20 - 11:40 AM (#4053648)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

For weeks I've been trying to stave off the issue of a dodgy tooth until this lot is over. So far so good. When I was at the B&M (aaargh) checkout this morning with my two bottles of mouthwash, the woman told me excitedly that, as long as I kept using it, I wouldn't catch Coronavirus. Poor woman.


19 May 20 - 12:00 PM (#4053659)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Good luck with that tooth!

John Glenn's widow, at 100. Merde.


19 May 20 - 01:06 PM (#4053688)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

If you see a rabbit during their outbreak let me know


19 May 20 - 09:28 PM (#4053795)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Just whay we need. Rabbit Ebola.


20 May 20 - 02:32 AM (#4053814)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

Dr. Agent-Orange MD at it again, recommending Hydroxychloroquine and boasting that he takes it to prevent being infected by Covid-19.

‘This will kill you’:


20 May 20 - 07:21 AM (#4053868)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Dr. Strangevil declared the highest number of infections and death has earned the USA a Badge of Honor.

Also down is up. evil is good, death is best and ignorance is genius.


20 May 20 - 11:32 AM (#4053933)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Oh for cryin' out loud.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/05/trump-worlds-most-coronavirus-cases-badge-of-honor-good-bad-thing.amp


20 May 20 - 11:43 AM (#4053938)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And worse: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/05/national-guard-deployments-to-fight-coronavirus-will-end-day-before-benefits-kick-in.html


20 May 20 - 11:55 AM (#4053942)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And different:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/europe/coronavirus-mink-netherlands-testing-intl/index.html

The bat at the Mudcat Tavern is happy to read this.


20 May 20 - 01:31 PM (#4053984)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bee-dubya-ell

Somebody help me out here....

One of the legitimate uses for hydroxychloroquine is the treatment of lupus. But lupus patients are having a hard time getting their prescriptions filled because of a shortage caused by people using the drug as an unproven and very dubious treatment for COVID-19.

What I would like to know is this:

Hydroxychloroquine is a regulated prescription drug. The only way to get it is if a doctor signs a prescription. So how are enough people getting hold of it to create a shortage? Are doctors not ethically barred from prescribing potentially harmful drugs when there is no evidence that they will benefit a patient? Has advertising prescription drugs to the general public so broken the system that a patient feels he has a right to simply tell a doctor what drug to prescribe? And does the doctor then just write the scrip, consequences be damned?


20 May 20 - 01:39 PM (#4053987)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

You probably don't know many doctors, Royals, Reality TV stars, CEO's or Congressmen.
They can all be surprisingly stupid.


20 May 20 - 03:48 PM (#4054019)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bee-dubya-ell

You're right, Don. I guess I tend to believe that doctors are inherently intelligent and moral creatures. Probably watched too many episodes of "Marcus Welby, MD."


20 May 20 - 04:04 PM (#4054023)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage

If you'd watched M*A*S*H you'd know there are quite a few Frank Burns out there.


20 May 20 - 07:32 PM (#4054055)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

While there were more screw ups on ER, my fav is House MD.
IRL how many docs prescribed OXY, Celebrex, Farixa (causes genital gangrene) or worse things...

There are more doctors who do not listen - than virus in 1 pound of soil. I can't prove that but you get my point.
Nurses are not hired to hawk snake oil, skin creams or Hydroxy cut.

And while I'm ranting, Covid 19 has exceeded the number of symptoms one disease should have. Its being more of a hog than Swine flu. :<[


21 May 20 - 08:23 AM (#4054147)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The Navaho nation in New Mexico is the largest hot spot in the country

My father married a pure Navaho
My people were ashamed where ever we go
The Indians said I was white by law
The White Man always called me "Indian Squaw"
Half-breed, that's all I ever heard
Half-breed, how I learned to hate the word
Half-breed, she's no good they warned
Both sides were against me since the day I was born
We never settled, went from town to town
When you're not welcome you don't hang around
The other children always laughed at me
"Give her a feather, she's Navaho"
Half-breed, that's all I ever heard
Half-breed, how I learned to hate the word
Half-breed, she's no good they warned
Both sides were against me since the day I was born
We weren't accepted and I felt ashamed
Nineteen I left them, tell me who's to blame
My life since then is reservations
But I can't run away from what I am
Half-breed, that's all I ever heard
Half-breed, how I learned to hate the word
Half-breed, she's no good they warned
Both sides were against me since the day I was born
Si-lence, that's all that I hear
Si-Lence, with no intensive care
Si-lence, cuz the virus killed them all
Now one side's against me till the day that I fall


22 May 20 - 01:51 AM (#4054285)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg

I am very concerned about people just blowing off hydroxychloraquine and chloraquine (I will combine them here and call them HX) because trump endorsed it. And might profit from it. Of course he will. Although I would bet he would profit more off the very expensive remsivir??? HX is taken by millions of people per year. It has been around since the 1940s. It works in synergy with zinc and vitamin d is a good supplement. They know what the safety parameters are in a non-diseased population, in a population with malaria and a population with lupus or RA. They don't know parameters of it taken with other medicines, vitamins, etc. They don't know everything about treating other diseases yet. They probably do not know the optimal dose. They probably don't know at what stage of the disease it is most effective, and the varying doses needed per stage. Many countries that use it believe earlier will prevent advanced stages in many people. So there is much that is known and much that is not known. You do have to throw spaghetti at the wall in a violent, fatal pandemic. They say doctors and pharmacists are getting prescriptions for themselves and families and contributing to the shortage. They should protect the supply for people with lupus, although faced with a painful but not immediately fatal disease vs. imminent death, it would be a hard choice. I have read, confirm for yourself, that it is very cheap, broadly manufactured, manufactured in places with high standards, such as switzerland etc. Producing too much would not be a problem because it could be used for malaria. Read up on the usage in other countries. Read what doctors say. Keep Trump totally out of the picture. If he says applesauce works you can bet he has cornered the applesauce market and will profit. Ignore trump, read what the doctors say, and ask again and again how many of these terrible heart problems are they actually seeing ? Some to be sure. Should give EKG first if there is time. There has not been time to do everything perfectly. Giving it to someone to prevent malaria vs. giving it to someone on death's door is two different things. Read everything you can and don't politicize this and write off what seems to be a life-saving medicine. And I am not really into abuse and I will as usual screen through to be sure I don't read what one person has to say and be cautious about others.


22 May 20 - 07:10 AM (#4054322)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

When you are first told there is nothing you can do but hide, it is reassuring to do somthing. I wouldn't take away anyone's symbol of hope be it prayer or an inoculous promise of help.

The trouble begins with harmful promises. If a low dose non injurious treatment by green laser light, the same one at strength used in surgury, was proven to help I too might take the risk. When a treatment was proven unsafe in the hands of people who think more is better I would not take the risk.

Overall, trusting a Shaman, disabled president or a hunch is not the way to go for the enlightened.

You are free to choose to be enlightened or an idiot. Some people do not have a choice.


22 May 20 - 10:13 AM (#4054349)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback

I am very concerned about people just blowing off hydroxychloraquine and chloraquine .......write off what seems to be a life-saving medicine.

There. Is. No. Evidence. That. Either. Drug. Is. Of. Any. Value. In. Treating. Coronavirus.

Has nothing to do with the opinion of the turd in the White House.


22 May 20 - 11:53 AM (#4054377)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Exactly, Mossback.


22 May 20 - 03:57 PM (#4054435)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

NOT exactly .
Resdemivir is an anti viral drug developed in the fight against Ebola and has the scientific 'blessing' of Dr. Fauci and others. It is known when it is most efficatious, as it blocks viral infection of additional cells.    Let the trumpers buy up all the hydroxy and leave the resdem for us. :~}


23 May 20 - 06:48 AM (#4054546)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

the problem with any drug that people think will work. It can become the de facto, the go to, and people en mass may not look to other things. Like ones that have some evidence-based efficacy.


24 May 20 - 08:42 AM (#4054818)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

It does weird clotting things to placentas: https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/health/placenta-covid-19-wellness/index.html


24 May 20 - 03:16 PM (#4054886)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Your mission if you decide to accept it, is to finesses a quarter to half a million people to kill themselves for the benefit of the treasury dept. We will disavow any knowledge of your mission.
Operation 'reopen' should prove more ambitious than the failed self deportation and build the wall missions. We suggest you begin by fomenting war betwen the govenors.
This post will self destruct in one view.


24 May 20 - 07:03 PM (#4054933)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

I've been looking at various data sites, and Virginia seems to have about a third of the average/typical death rate, roughly .02 to everybody else's .06.


24 May 20 - 09:30 PM (#4054948)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

No proof but Virginia probably lies better. It is nearly impossible to get the # of infections perfectly between (.02-.03) even with perfect testing. But its better to be lucky than right. My county has more dead than the entire state of VA?


26 May 20 - 11:03 AM (#4055286)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Charlottesville itself has 4%.


26 May 20 - 07:27 PM (#4055385)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

localities are harder to manipulate than fed controled numbers from the states. Egad I sound like a conspiracy dude.
You do relize Trump has the pandemic numbers official classified.


27 May 20 - 05:31 AM (#4055430)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh

The President of Austria, Alexander van der Bellen, has been fined for breaking the country's current rules re. Corona virus "lock-down". According to the BBC, a policeman noticed the President and his guests at a Restaurant after midnight, although such premises have to close by 11pm. The President has both apologised, and agreed to pay the fine and reimburse the Restaurant's owner should he too be fined. How different from the home lives of our own dear leaders. He should have worn a very expensive and distinctive waistcoat, so that the Polis would know his place.


27 May 20 - 05:45 AM (#4055431)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Asa Hutchinson "americans need to be disiplined to face reopening"
???
We NEED to reopen our churches, brothels, tattoo parlors and casinos
No matter what people want

Twitter has begun to add fact checking links to Trump Tweets in the interest of public health and safety.


27 May 20 - 01:35 PM (#4055489)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

Well, my poor poor sister has regressed considerably. (I got an update this morning.) Her lungs are filling up all night long and she's fighting for every breath, so isn't sleeping. She can hardly dress herself with the exhaustion and weakness.
Anyone getting fed up with staying at home and social distancing etc should read her emails. They're heartbreaking. If people could only see what this illness can do, they'd obey the rules and support their continuation as long as necessary.
It isn't just 'surviving' the thing, it's the possibly permanent damage to one's health that is very concerning.


27 May 20 - 01:45 PM (#4055491)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

I've not heard of such an extensive exerience of covid 19 before.
Did she mention anything about reinfection or other diagnosis?
May she
get well soon ALREADY!


27 May 20 - 03:48 PM (#4055517)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

Thank you so much Donuel.
I've heard of many people who just can't seem to get rid of the lung problem. I sometimes look at Mumsnet (mainly women's comments) and there's a thread there called 'Covid Lungs'. The thread has filled to the 1000 maximum several times, with countless women still struggling several weeks/months after contracting Covid19.
I think, from what my sister has said, that the virus actually damages the lung tissue, and this can cause lasting health problems.
All the more reason for everyone to Stay Safe, stick to Lockdown and obey the rulings. It's tedious, but these health repercussions are so much worse.


28 May 20 - 07:57 AM (#4055607)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin

This makes an interesting point - loud music in pubs is a hazard, since it forces people to shout, which spreads the virus. The same must go for all gatherings with high amplification.

Superspreader events

I found the recent accounts of spread in American meat packing plants interesting - they say it's because they're noisy and workers have to shout. When I worked in one of the biggest abattoirs in the world in the 1970s, NOBODY shouted - you walked up to people if you had something to say. The reason being that it was SO noisy that shouting was hopeless.


28 May 20 - 09:47 AM (#4055630)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: fat B****rd

Sending best thoughts as always, Eliza
Charlie X


28 May 20 - 10:59 AM (#4055642)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

Thank you so much Charlie!
She has always been such a powerhouse of energy, with many activities and physical sports, and it's so worrying how weak and helpless she's become. I thought she was nearly back to normal, but now this.
At least she is very popular in her Scottish village in Tayside and everyone is rallying round with deliveries and support.
It's a dire warning isn't it to do everything one can to avoid getting this blooming Lurgy?


28 May 20 - 05:06 PM (#4055712)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

J'en suis navré(e) ma chère Senoufou! I had been worrying. I hear truly nasty things about recovering after being really deeply ill with this virus, permanent organ damage, horrible stuff. La pauvre. And poor you, too.


29 May 20 - 03:26 PM (#4055868)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: leeneia

Jack, thanks for the comments about noisy environments and shouting. Along those lines, I'll mention that the bishops of my church are against resuming services, and one reason is that people singing can send germs 26 feet. Surely they must mean opera singers, but still...

I have read that another problem with the packing plants is that the workers are so close together.
================
Senoufou, I'll say a prayer for your sister. I hope her former athletic and energetic activities provide a strong foundation of good health which will enable to overcome this new challenge.


29 May 20 - 03:36 PM (#4055870)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

Senoufou we send our best wishes to your sister.


29 May 20 - 03:46 PM (#4055871)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

Thank you Mrrzy, leeneia and Bonzo for your kind wishes. It's lovely to have your support on here. I'm many hundreds of miles away from my sister, and her daughters too are far away in Edinburgh and can't get to see their mum. She said in her e mail that she can't even talk on the phone.
Obviously, many people recover well,and others have no symptoms and don't realise they've had 'it'. I'm not sure about this 'easing of the lockdown' which the UK government is setting in motion.
People may do as they wish, but I'm a bit scared to expose myself to catching Covid19 and will probably continue to stay away from public places.
I sincerely hope everyone on Mudcat stays safe too.


30 May 20 - 08:20 AM (#4055988)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Los Vegas prostitutes are now offering curb side pick up.


30 May 20 - 10:26 AM (#4056013)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And the bat from the Tavern is happy to read about pangolins again!


02 Jun 20 - 05:16 AM (#4056638)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

If you remember the pandemic it continues at a 11% rise. There is no flattening of a curve.


02 Jun 20 - 11:09 AM (#4056695)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: keberoxu

"Surely they must mean opera singers ... "

Remember, Leeneia, that a solo singer is one thing,
but a choir/chorus of singers is quite another.
Ask the music director of a really serious church choir
or of a community or professional chorus --
don't take my word for it.

Where I am staying, once or twice a week
a chorus director, professional caliber, pays a visit
and he and I talk about many things.
He can tell you
that choruses of singers throughout this great land
are being silenced because of the fear of coronavirus.

There are some tragic stories out there ,
the director told me one such,
about a chorus rehearsal with no masks or handwashing or anything,
as a consequence of which
four chorus members died of COVID-19
and many more were stricken.
If what Eliza/Senoufou is relating applies to these people,
some of them will find it difficult to impossible
to sing the way that they used to sing.


02 Jun 20 - 06:17 PM (#4056782)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Thompson

I'm very sorry to hear about your sister, Senoufou. If she lies on her front (though maybe not while sleeping - I don't know?) it's supposed to give the lungs a better chance to fill up with oxygenated air than if she's lying on her back.

If anyone is interested in donating a fiver, there's a collection for the Navajo and Hopi people - it's probably linked in this piece here about how Irish people are donating in large numbers, as a kind of pass-it-on payback for the decency of the Choctaw, who collected money and sent it to us during the Famine.

What one reliable authority here, Luke O'Neill, is saying is that it's almost impossible to catch the virus outdoors, but people should mask up when indoors; shouting, running and sweating make you puff out more nasty virusy breath if you're infected.

I've also heard that the majority of infections are caused by 'super-spreaders', which is supposed to make limit the infection easier, though I don't see how unless they're incarcerated like the unfortunate Mary Malone, 'Typhoid Mary'.


03 Jun 20 - 07:47 PM (#4057055)
Subject: E: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg

I am in no way recommending this so check it out yourselves, but someone sent me something about lying over an exercise ball relieving some of the lung stress. it was put out by a physical therapist.


03 Jun 20 - 09:34 PM (#4057068)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback

About as effective as chloroquine.


04 Jun 20 - 07:52 AM (#4057160)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

The protests cannot be good for curve-flattening...


04 Jun 20 - 07:54 AM (#4057161)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Just read George Floyd tested positive on autopsy.


04 Jun 20 - 08:47 AM (#4057172)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

Thank you Thompson for your kindness. I expect she has tried various positions/ways to improve her breathing (she's a retired consultant anaesthetist, so knows about O2 levels and so on). Her latest e mail yesterday said she has used a pulse-oxymeter thingy, and her levels are quite low. Also, her lungs are filling up again, but she's managing to clear them each morning by heavy coughing.
She's naturally quite depressed at the thought that she might never regain the robust health she enjoyed recently before this virus (she's a lot younger than me).
Please everyone, keep vigilant and try to prevent ever catching the blooming plague!


04 Jun 20 - 10:18 AM (#4057181)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

George Floyd was symptom-free and the virus played no part in his death. Needs saying.


04 Jun 20 - 12:14 PM (#4057216)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou

Exactly Steve. Insinuating perhaps that 'he would have died anyway'?
Sister has just e mailed this afternoon to say she tottered out to her car (Ford Focus) to go for a brief spin and recharge the battery. She felt uplifted to see the Scottish countryside, and stopped at a re-opened garden centre, bought one or two plants and went home.
Breathing a bit better, but the weakness still debilitating.
This may be an improvement - sincerely hope so!


04 Jun 20 - 12:58 PM (#4057226)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback

Insinuating perhaps that 'he would have died anyway'?

That precise canard - that "people would have died anyway" has been and still is a major Republican talking point.

The "party of Lincoln" (yeah, right) really has devolved into absolute shit.


04 Jun 20 - 01:06 PM (#4057230)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

It was just a new datum. Nothing about cause of death. He may have infected the cops, though.


04 Jun 20 - 05:05 PM (#4057287)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Oh great - my blood group (A-) is way more likely to suffer respiratory failure, if infected, than others.

https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20200603/Blood-group-type-may-affect-susceptibility-to-COVID-19-respiratory-failure.aspx


04 Jun 20 - 06:02 PM (#4057302)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

better quarantine those cops


07 Jun 20 - 03:37 PM (#4057950)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

Just to let you know this is a telephone call a friend received today. Be aware folks.
‘Good morning, I'm calling from the NHS track and trace service. According to our system, you are likely to have been in close proximity to someone who has tested postive for COVID-19. This means that you now need to self-isolate for 7 days and take a COVID-19 test.'
'OK. Can you tell me who that person was?'
'I'm not able to tell you that. That is confidential information.'
'Right. Um... so ....'
'But you do need to be tested within the next 72 hours. So can I just get the best mailing address so that we can send a kit to you?'
'Ok (gives address)'
'Thank you - and I just need to take a payment card so that we can finalise this and send the kit to you.'
'Sorry - a payment card? I though this was all free?'
'No - I'm afraid not. There is a one-off fee of £500 for the kit, and test results. Could you read off the long card number for me, please, when you're ready.'
'No - that's not right. This is part of the NHS so there's no charge.'
'I'm afraid there is. Can you give me the card number please - this is very important, and there are penalties for not complying.'
Puts phone down.
This is how scammers work. And vulnerable people will fall for it.
Don't fall for it...!


07 Jun 20 - 04:05 PM (#4057959)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Wow. A$$holes.


08 Jun 20 - 04:21 AM (#4058072)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

Just read George Floyd tested positive on autopsy.

He was also "said" to have had COVID. Either way, if so, his lung function would have been depressed, and was vulnerable.
I saw a picture of a man who was said to have been knocked over by police in the current protest and left to bleed to death. Avoidable deaths both.


08 Jun 20 - 06:21 AM (#4058084)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick

I saw a picture of a man who was said to have been knocked over by police in the current protest and left to bleed to death.

If you are referring to the 75 year old in Buffalo, all the reports that I have read say that he is in a serious but stable condition. Has he died since?

We must be careful about spreading false news, even if it is unintentional.

DC


08 Jun 20 - 10:12 PM (#4058270)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Although nothing seems topic related lately, he is in serious but stable condition. He hit hard enough to bleed from his ears and a small laceration.


09 Jun 20 - 06:51 AM (#4058351)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The notion of the amount of viral load is being addressed as to the degree of serious infection. The viral load shedding is highest at the onset of the earliest symptons. It is still transmitted by an infected asymptomatic person but not as high.


09 Jun 20 - 08:06 AM (#4058374)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

Has he died since?<>

On reflection the caption may have read "left to bleed to death". The picture was certainly a lifeless looking person face down, and no one in attendances. Death is not a word you ignore. And the caption does imply something.


10 Jun 20 - 10:50 AM (#4058597)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And the O blood group is less likely to get it at all. Goes along with A- being more likely to develop serious complications if they get it. Many sources, google ABO blood coronavirus.


14 Jun 20 - 11:43 AM (#4059265)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Wonder why NIH yanked its funding but anyway:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/nih-halted-study-unveils-its-massive-analysis-bat-coronaviruses

Oddly near a Bats Make Tequila thread in my newsfeed:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/14/world/bat-facts-cnn-special-coronavirus-scn/index.html


15 Jun 20 - 06:19 PM (#4059395)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker

A ship's doctor on a corona quarantine Pirate vessel
has pleaded for more help struggling to lower the aRrrrr rate...




.. if that amuses anyone, it'll be a mudcatter...


15 Jun 20 - 07:07 PM (#4059408)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

President Bonespur has come up with the cure for the pandemic. Who knew it would be this simple.

trump-on-coronavirus-if-we-stop-testing-right-now-wed-have-very-few-cases if any

He must have had a 3 Lysol lunch.


15 Jun 20 - 08:14 PM (#4059422)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Pfr... Snicker.


16 Jun 20 - 06:33 AM (#4059484)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

I'm surprised you did not know that Trump hollowed out NIH of its pandemic research. He then zeroed out funding to WHO.


16 Jun 20 - 06:48 AM (#4059487)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Why the R rate is bullshit: suppose I was the only person in Cornwall with Coronavirus. I then give it to three people in my house. The R rate in Cornwall is then 3. So let's lock the whole country down again.


16 Jun 20 - 03:37 PM (#4059586)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

An old steroid was found to reduce mortality by 1/3 among the sickest patients according to a finding at Oxford University.
Way to go UK
The steroid is a dextro...


17 Jun 20 - 01:50 PM (#4059734)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Thompson

Today had the highest figures worldwide as it rages on in Brazil and the US.
Vitamin D is said to increase resistance to the virus; mushrooms are one of the few vegetarian foods that can make this vitamin - if you expose them to sunlight for 15 minutes.


17 Jun 20 - 06:19 PM (#4059760)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

I posted to this and it went into the ether, so here goes again, quite likely not verbatim:

If you want your vitamin D, stick your bare arms, bare legs and bare arse into the summer sunshine for fifteen minutes. There's no charge, and you can save the mushroom money...


17 Jun 20 - 06:27 PM (#4059761)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

By the way, mushrooms are commonly grown in a medium containing animal manure. Just thought I'd mention it in case any vegans are reading...

Sticking your bare skin into the summer sunshine for a quarter of an hour daily is totally vegan, and fairly sensual...


18 Jun 20 - 01:27 AM (#4059797)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage

Texas' big-city mayors ask Gov. Greg Abbott for power to impose face mask rules

    The mayors of nine of Texas' biggest cities urged Gov. Greg Abbott in a letter Tuesday to grant them the "authority to set rules and regulations" mandating face masks during the coronavirus pandemic.

    As COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations continue to climb in Texas, an executive order from Abbott bans local governments from imposing fines or criminal penalties on people who don't wear masks in public. When the order went into effect, orders from counties and cities requiring masks became toothless. The mayors wrote that many people in their cities continue to refuse to wear face masks and that "a one-size-fits-all approach is not the best option" when it comes to regulating the issue.

    The letter is signed by Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner, San Antonio Mayor Ron Nirenberg, Austin Mayor Steve Adler, Dallas Mayor Eric Johnson, Fort Worth Mayor Betsy Price, El Paso Mayor Dee Margo, Arlington Mayor Jeff Williams, Plano Mayor Harry LaRosiliere and Grand Prairie Mayor Ron Jensen.

    The letter asks Abbott to consider allowing each city's local officials to decide whether to require the use of face coverings in order to prevent the spread of the virus.

    On Tuesday, the state reported a record-breaking total of 2,518 patients hospitalized with the virus. The seven-day average of new cases has also reached new heights in recent days.


18 Jun 20 - 09:07 AM (#4059863)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

The blood group data has hit the mainstream news. A is more susceptible, both to the virus and its complications, and O is more resistant.


18 Jun 20 - 09:37 AM (#4059871)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Risk factors are just another underlying condition and is more speculative than a guarantee.

Suppose an America devoid of any scientific knowledge or heads up about a pandemic but with its present population. Infection would reach about 60% of 370 million people. Death rates would be several million.

While my scenario is impossible, it could be worse.


18 Jun 20 - 06:22 PM (#4059979)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

In my neihborhood they are doing stem cell research to combat the cytokine storm to help the sickest victims.


19 Jun 20 - 07:52 AM (#4060072)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Covid messes with Texas as hospitals see 95% increase in patients


20 Jun 20 - 12:44 PM (#4060350)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Almost 1 in 100 have had or have the virus in the US.
That is so generalized that it doesn't mean your area applies.

The comedian Bill Mahre generalizes further that Americans are not healthy enough to deal with the virus well because of diet. On Meal Time with Bill Mahre I think he goes overboard with his polemics.


20 Jun 20 - 01:07 PM (#4060353)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Eviction freezes are starting to expire State by State.
Its not just about food and health security alone anymore.
Congressional action is needed.


20 Jun 20 - 05:52 PM (#4060417)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

There's a guy here who reckons house prices in the US are rising because: 1) low interest rates are encouraging buyers (millennials) & 2) sellers have taken there's of the market unwilling to allow potential COVIDers to breach the shelter in place. Demand higher than supply, up goes the price.

And I can't see that mechanism being any different in the UK.

So we may see an overheated market, with a swift readjustment. Now wasn't that what happened in 2008? Co-factors are different but the effect will be the same. Second wave (COVID), double dip recession?


20 Jun 20 - 06:01 PM (#4060419)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

In 2008 the watch dogs colluded with real estate to make any loan with a pulse. Then bundle the mess as an investment.


20 Jun 20 - 06:40 PM (#4060427)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

At the Trump Rally there are optional masks
Mandatory: temp taking

The snack shops have optional Milk of Amnesia
Mandatory: all drinks are laced with oxytocin


25 Jun 20 - 12:04 PM (#4061344)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: keberoxu

The actual news report of this family tragedy is here: one birthday party, 18 people ill with COVID-19, two elderly parents in hospital

This is what Stilly River Sage has been prophesying for months now.


My summary of the story, for those who care to read it:
A middle-aged volunteer EMT is married to a doctor, and is part of
a large family, including his parents in their 80s.
Their adult nephew wanted to host a surprise birthday party, in person,
for their daughter-in-law, turning 30.
So of course the EMT and his doctor-spouse were invited.
The middle-aged couple
"refused to go to the party due to safety reasons."
The EMT is quoted saying:
"We knew this was going to happen,
I mean this whole time this has been going on,
we've been terrified."

Today, this couple, having avoided the event, are in good health.
But the EMT's parents are in the hospital, and may not make it.
Grandma, meaning the EMT's mother,
"stopped by the party to drop something off."
She was there long enough to become infected with coronavirus,
and she then went home,
where her husband became infected.
Grandpa is now in ICU, on life support, and
thisclose to "being put on a ventilator."

Quoting the report:
"Among those infected are two young children,
two grandparents,
a cancer patient,
and [the EMT's] parents, who are in their 80s ...
18 people in the family have tested positive for COVID-19."


25 Jun 20 - 05:00 PM (#4061379)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg

read up again about zelenko protocol. Warning...he is not a handsome model type of doctor and that goes against him unfortunately. Read about the people who have been saved with his protocol, zinc plus hcq plus azt plus perhaps vitamin d. read about the non rich countries around the world who have fought the plague with this protocol..countries that will not have a chance with more expensive drugs. read about the faked studies that are the basis for the slander against the protocol..where they gave six or more times the usual dose..and are said to have used a drug with a similar name to HCq. Ooops..so many of them died..it is supposed to be administered when symptoms erupt..not near death. Go on twitter and follow every single doctor and epidemiologist you can find, especially those from other countries. Read countries that have defied WHO. Follow the money that leads to more expensive drugs and vaccines. Follow the political hatred towards trump..justified usually but not here. Do not give heed to what newscasters, politicians, movie stars and home schoolers have to say. We are talking.HCQ by itself has known risks and they are rare and it is a nonpatented, easily produced, inexpensive drug. Now, you of course have to look at interactions with other drugs and other disease states and underlying conditions and stage of disease but they shut down studies that are trying to sort all this out. It is a very complex situation, corrupted by well, corruption of some sort. We are permitting the deaths of thousands of our own citizens..not pretty deaths either...and contributing to death and disease of millions of non-americans. I will not give links People will have to look at this by themselves. It is rapidly evolving, befouled research and it is too complicated. So find experts and follow them.


25 Jun 20 - 05:31 PM (#4061384)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback

Great, Mary. More voodoo, unscientific "medicine". You working for Trump now, or for Pence?


25 Jun 20 - 05:41 PM (#4061389)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And per the CDC, the number of cases is probably 10x what we thought. Good news, actually, as it makes the death toll 10x smaller, percentage-wise.


25 Jun 20 - 05:44 PM (#4061390)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback

OK, Mary, I did what you asked & looked up the so-called Zelenko Protocol & Dr Zelenko on half a dozen responsible websites.

Didn't take too long to discover that Zelenko is a not too bright lying blogger pushing unsubstantiated, fact-free, harmful bullshit.

Just what we need in these times of crisis- another lying sack of s*** like Trump conning suckers with pseudo-science.


25 Jun 20 - 05:45 PM (#4061391)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Also, this:


Blicky

Fox News and their ilk caused a lot of the problem....


25 Jun 20 - 05:47 PM (#4061392)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback

it makes the death toll 10x smaller, percentage-wise.

Yup - a mere 150,000 and growing in the U.S. alone. Good news indeed.

Damn near cause for celebration.


25 Jun 20 - 06:03 PM (#4061395)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage

Governor Abbott in Texas is realizing he's going to have to start acting like Cuomo in New York. This "opening up Texas" train is off the rails.


25 Jun 20 - 06:59 PM (#4061398)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback

Don't canonize Cuomo just yet, Gilly.

In my immediate area 80% of the businesses are not complying with the mandate that customers wear masks and about 25% don't enforce the mask rule for their employees as well as their customers.

These businesses have been reported, weeks ago, and nothing has been done.

Nor has Cuomo made masks mandatory, period, with penalties attached for non-compliance, as should be done.

Stay tuned: theres going to be a resurgence of Covid-19 in New York, they'll have to shut the whole damn state down again - and I hope that'll make the anti-mask morons happy.


25 Jun 20 - 07:17 PM (#4061400)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

I'm not exactly anti-mask, but I don't wear a mask unless forced to do so (as in my medical centre). I don't know whether that makes me a moron. The reason I won't wear a mask is that I think that at best, any benefit will be far outweighed by the improper wearing of masks, the inadequate and gappy nature of most masks I've seen and the complacency which an awful lot of mask-wearers appear to be afflicted with. Wear your mask if you want. But you'll have to pass a law before I'll join you.


25 Jun 20 - 08:23 PM (#4061409)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback

Its not about you, Steve.

Its about protecting OTHERS who might become infected by someone not wearing a mask.

Its about being responsible and considerate of other folks.

Best,

Greg


25 Jun 20 - 08:33 PM (#4061412)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

"Greg"...?


25 Jun 20 - 08:35 PM (#4061413)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Er, and that's the unsettled science...


25 Jun 20 - 08:45 PM (#4061416)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri

It's Greg. He probably just forgot about "Bill".
But what he said... the mask is to protect OTHER PEOPLE if you're an asymptomatic carrier. If you don't care that you may kill other people accidentally, don't wear a mask.


25 Jun 20 - 11:09 PM (#4061427)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage

Steve, it's a stubborn stance and ignores the solid amount of information that indicates that wearing masks does protect you and others.

I'm pretty sure Mossy was simply yanking chains with that signoff.


26 Jun 20 - 01:46 AM (#4061434)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jon Freeman

Oh I don't know SRS, although I think I'd opt to wear a mask if going out and it being my decision, things are blurred to me. Fwiw, I' try to copy a bit of what the WHO had as "interim guidance" on 5th June. I'm too tired to try and go back and find the link and don't know if it has been updated since.

First off, I'll try to present one table:

Table 2. Examples of where the general public should be encouraged to use medical and non-medical masks in areas with
known or suspected community transmission
Situations/settings                         Population                                       Purpose of       Type of mask to consider
                                                                                              mask use          wearing if recommended
                                                                                                                locally

Areas with known or suspected               General population in public settings, such      Potential         Non-medical mask
widespread transmission and limited or      as grocery stores, at work, social               benefit for
no capacity to implement other             gatherings, mass gatherings, closed             source control
containment measures such as                settings, including schools, churches,
physical distancing, contact tracing,       mosques, etc.
appropriate testing, isolation and care
for suspected and confirmed cases.

Settings with high population density       People living in cramped conditions, and         Potential         Non-medical mask
where physical distancing cannot be         specific settings such as refugee camps,         benefit for
achieved; surveillance and testing          camp-like settings, slums                        source control
capacity, and isolation and quarantine
facilities are limited

Settings where a physical distancing       General public on transportation (e.g., on a    Potential         Non-medical mask
cannot be achieved (close contact)          bus, plane, trains)                              benefit for
                                                                                              source control
                                              Specific working conditions which places
                                              the employee in close contact or potential
                                              close contact with others e.g., social
                                              workers, cashiers, servers

Settings where physical distancing          Vulnerable populations:                         Protection       Medical mask
cannot be achieved and increased risk
of infection and/or negative outcomes       •    People aged =60 years
                                              •    People with underlying comorbidities,
                                                    such as cardiovascular disease or
                                                    diabetes mellitus, chronic lung
                                                    disease, cancer, cerebrovascular
                                                    disease, immunosuppression

Any setting in the community*               Persons with any symptoms suggestive of          Source control    Medical mask
                                              COVID-19
*This applies to any transmission scenario


Now I'll try to give what they see as pros and cons:

Potential benefits/advantages
The likely advantages of the use of masks by healthy people in the general public include:                                                   

• reduced potential exposure risk from infected persons before they develop symptoms;                                             
• reminding people to be compliant with other measures. However, this can also have the reverse effect (see below);                                                         
• potential social and economic benefits. Amidst the global shortage of surgical masks and PPE, encouraging the public to create their own fabric masks may promote individual enterprise and community integration. Moreover, the production of non-medical masks may offer a source of income for those able to manufacture masks within their communities. Fabric masks can also be a form of cultural expression, encouraging public acceptance of protection measures in general. The safe re-use of fabric masks will also reduce costs and waste and contribute to sustainability.                              
                                                                  
Potential harms/disadvantages
                                                                     
The likely disadvantages of the use of mask by healthy people in the general public include:                                    
                                                                     
•    potential increased risk of self-contamination due to the manipulation of a face mask and subsequently touching eyes with contaminated hands;(48, 49)
•    potential self-contamination that can occur if non-medical masks are not changed when wet or soiled. This can create favourable conditions for microorganism to amplify.
•    potential headache and/or breathing difficulties, depending on type of mask used;                                 
•    potential development of facial skin lesions, irritant dermatitis or worsening acne, when used frequently for         
    long hours;(50)                                                
•    difficulty with communicating clearly;                        
•    potential discomfort;(41, 51)                                 
•    a false sense of security, leading to potentially lower adherence to other critical preventive measures such as physical distancing and hand hygiene;                           
•    poor compliance with mask wearing, in particular by young children;                                                
•    waste management issues; improper mask disposal leading to increased litter in public places, risk of contamination to street cleaners and environment hazard;
•    difficult communicating for deaf persons who rely on lip reading;
•    disadvantages for or difficulty wearing them, especially for children, developmentally challenged persons, those with mental illness, elderly persons with cognitive impairment, those with asthma or chronic respiratory or breathing problems, those who have had facial trauma or recent oral maxillofacial surgery, and those living in hot and humid environments.


26 Jun 20 - 03:49 AM (#4061437)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

Its not about you, Steve. - quite!

Most clinical looking masks have gaps but at the sides, deflecting the breath to the side and backwards. On face-to-face meetings that is a plus.

The real problem with masks is the way they are worn. I see mothers deliberately cross the loops to enhance the gap at the cheeks. While their children have them under their chins because of the restriction in breathing. Not even the bus drivers wear them, most of whom are nearing or over retirement age, though the older of that group seem to have disappeared currently. Not that I have observed many, I walk the 5 miles to town and not along the road where possible. Has anyone noticed how fat (ie vulnerable) a lot of bus drivers are?

My masks fit around the sides better, but then I chose carefully from the internet pictures and had them printed with my artwork advertising my website. Wearing on the bus is OK, but I wouldn't want to walk far in them. But if I take a bus it s because I am tired and the mask weighs heavy then.

FWIW the UK deaths graph has bottomed, and looking pretty flat at around 120/day mark (rolling average). The coming weekend may reveal something, numbers plummet Sunday/Monday which must be an artifact of reportage. I keep a spreadsheet and the FFT shows a strong spike at 7 and 3.5 days which is obvious on the daily graph.


26 Jun 20 - 05:27 AM (#4061451)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

With mask - 3% infection   Without mask 17% infection.
oversimplified yes, since factors like viral load is even more important/

3 days before symptoms a carrier will be most infectious. Thats why health are workers treating the people with symptoms are as protected as they are.


26 Jun 20 - 06:28 AM (#4061460)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

With mask - 3% infection   Without mask 17% infection

Meaningless.

Here in Cornwall there is no mask-wearing culture, so most people are clearly stubborn, accidental people-killers. You have to wear them on buses (which are as rare around here as rocking horse shit anyway) and trains (nearest railway an hour's drive away) and if you go the doctor or hospital. The nurse at our medical centre gave me a sort of papery mask that she said I can use over and over again. I'm puzzling over the hygiene aspect of that, even though I'm an assiduously hygienic sort of chap myself. Two days ago in Morrisons a mask-wearing woman brushed past me to get a bag of frozen peas. Yep, made physical contact. I've had a fair number of similar and unwelcome close-ups like that with mask-wearers. Mask-wearers are far more likely to ignore the other cautions, it seems to me, though I haven't done any counts. You see masks worn under the nose, etc. If they make masks compulsory, yet don't give people loads of free masks, a lot of people are going to reuse masks that they shouldn't be reusing. There plenty of negatives that you mask-zealots are ignoring. Oh, and by the way, this county, full of those stubborn accidental people-killers, has the lowest infection rate in the country. We don't know of anyone who has had the disease and neither does anyone else we know. Well, we did hear of an outbreak in a care home 30 miles from here...

I am not anti-mask. A couple of you are so pro-mask that your posts are beginning to sound a bit evangelical. The fact is that the efficacy of masks in many settings is questionable. There are downsides, some dangerous, that you are ignoring. I don't laugh at people who wear masks and I'll wear a mask when I'm ordered to do so, and I'll do it properly. The case for the defence rests.


26 Jun 20 - 09:08 AM (#4061484)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Everything could be meaningless. But be that as it may
"wear the damn mask"


26 Jun 20 - 09:15 AM (#4061485)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Whatever your figures are, they are meaningless in the way you put them. It's about time you learned the good manners to express things in a way that doesn't do the discourtesy of forcing us to do a whole load of unnecessary mental processing. What you do is not clever, even if you think it is.

I've just got back from Morrisons, busy as it's Friday. Again, I didn't do a count, but I should say that fewer than one person in ten were wearing masks.


26 Jun 20 - 09:19 AM (#4061486)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy


Here
is a fascinating graphic on long-term issues.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/whats-at-risk-an-18-month-view-of-a-post-covid-world/

The mask is to protect others. Every little bit helps.

And yes, a death rate of half of one percent *is* better than a death rate of 5%.


26 Jun 20 - 09:25 AM (#4061488)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

You have no more idea than I do as to how much or how little mask-wearing helps. There are many negatives, as has repeatedly been pointed out in this thread. Anyway, I've just bought a pack of five, just in case someone decides to force me to wear one.


26 Jun 20 - 09:31 AM (#4061491)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

And I do have to wonder how you get to be "a senior risk analyst"...


26 Jun 20 - 09:48 AM (#4061498)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Um, there *are* data on masks helping.

There is also this:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/dudes-who-wont-wear-masks/613375/?utm_source=digg


26 Jun 20 - 09:49 AM (#4061500)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

If Prez Jackass had been following his own CDC guidelines and wearing a mask in public and not disparaging their use all this time we'd have fewer deaths and fewer people soon to die and get sick. Of course that pales in comparison to number he killed with his politicization of and slow reaction to the virus.


26 Jun 20 - 09:56 AM (#4061502)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

I'll amend that last sentence to read:
Of course, at this point that pales in comparison to the number he killed with his politicization of and slow reaction to the virus.


26 Jun 20 - 10:07 AM (#4061503)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

OK, so show me data supporting mask-wearing that doesn't have confounding factors.


26 Jun 20 - 10:10 AM (#4061504)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

I'll go with a real scientist in Dr. Fauci every time.


26 Jun 20 - 10:30 AM (#4061512)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Plenty of real scientists have expressed doubts.


26 Jun 20 - 10:56 AM (#4061516)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Steve is indeed healed and back to his same old self
regretably.


26 Jun 20 - 11:17 AM (#4061521)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage

Jon, your list makes the case basically - the only two "cons" that make any difference are the possible misuse and self-infection. That is always a risk with masks like this. The rest is for fussy users and are excuses for not wanting to wear one, not reasons why they shouldn't. Big difference.

It is now MANDATORY in Tarrant County, Texas, to wear a mask if you go into a business. Places are putting up announcements and saying they will offer a disposable mask to people who arrive without, but that no one can go in without a mask. This is in the most Republican county in Texas, as one poll revealed, yet it starts this evening at 6pm and runs through early August. The local officials are now finding themselves in the same place as New York City a couple of months ago and are finally taking it seriously. So don't bother with the "can't articulate clearly" or "waste management" excuses, just wear it.


26 Jun 20 - 12:03 PM (#4061532)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

CDC adds 3 new symptoms:

Congestion or runny nose
Nausea
Diarrhea

Posted: Apr 24, 2020 / 10:44 AM PDT / Updated: Apr 24, 2020 / 10:44 AM PDT

SAN FRANCISCO (KRON) – The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on Friday expanded the list of coronavirus symptoms, which may appear anywhere from two days to two weeks after exposure.

Here is the updated list of coronavirus symptoms from the CDC:

Fever
Cough
Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
Chills
Repeated shaking with chills
Muscle pain
Headache
Sore throat
New loss of taste or smell


26 Jun 20 - 12:21 PM (#4061534)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

This virus grows stronger with our laziness, division, exhaustion and ignorance. Without people who are willing to sacrifice their life to believe mr trump we would be on the downward curve but instead we are at the all time high in infections and deaths.
There are no viruses that attack only the stupid but it helps.


26 Jun 20 - 01:28 PM (#4061543)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Everybody knows the boat is leaking
Everybody knows the captain's drunk

The negative postive test is flawed by a third. The antibody test is not much better. Then that data gets massaged further for national reporting.

The Pense pandemic task force is 99.9 % pure refined gourmet bullshit. The more bullshit the less time they leave up the graph showing that the worst area is the southern border. Then they put you to sleep and you wake up refreshed 48 minutes later.


26 Jun 20 - 03:10 PM (#4061561)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Weird, I only copied the symptom list. It seems to have pasted the whole page. Sorry!

Live now first coronavirus task force briefing in months, on CNBC and likely elsewhere. Pence's head is so far up his ass it's coming out of his neck.

Ooh I am proud of that phrase.

Some of that extra text the page loaded into your cursor was removed. But those symptoms were reported in April and that doesn't seem to have changed. --mudelf


26 Jun 20 - 04:20 PM (#4061575)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Your view may be coloured by the fact that your state is in the middle of a terrible coronavirus crisis, Maggie. My view may be coloured by the fact that we don't know anybody who's been infected and that Cornwall has the lowest infection rate in the country. So you want masks and I can't be arsed. Can we agree that we both get it?   ;-)


26 Jun 20 - 06:53 PM (#4061589)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri

Steve, if you search for "studies on wearing masks to prevent covid-19 transmission", you'll find loads of information. I'd post links, but I think you're smart enough to do your own research.

In any case, preventing Covid-19 infection may not be as important to you as it is to people in the US, since we've got rates of infection through the roof. Even so, it's worse in some states than others. I suppose if you don't have to worry about accidentally killing someone, you don't have to think about wearing a mask.


26 Jun 20 - 08:09 PM (#4061591)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Preventing infection is pretty important this end. My 91-year-old mum is in a care home six miles from here and we are all obsessed with making sure that they don't have an outbreak. We've been a bit shit nationally concerning all this here, but not as shit as you your end, it seems. But here in Cornwall we have done incredibly well. And we still don't have a mask-wearing culture. Live with that. We do.


26 Jun 20 - 08:48 PM (#4061592)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri

"Live with that."
As you're far away, and couldn't kill me or anyone I care about if you were infected, you just do whatever makes you happy.


27 Jun 20 - 04:39 AM (#4061628)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Well I suppose that I could wear a mask all winter too to make sure that I don't kill anyone by giving them flu, another disease that is infectious before symptoms show...


27 Jun 20 - 07:09 AM (#4061654)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

By doing nothing, more people will get sick and die yet this is becoming the official policy in the US which is now passing its earlier all time high infection rate. This is because of the judgment that " we must not make the cure worse than the disease". So we open too early, force certain workers into infection chambers at work, roll back testing and contact tracing, have unmasked political gatherings inside and not support people who are unemployed. Go to crowded events andparty We must decide if we should try to save those who succumb to the virus at all if there are not enough beds, PPE or medical treatment.
We must not make treatment worse than the effect on the economy.
So go ahead and take no personal responsibility. DO NOT WEAR A MASK.
Be a fancy free Steve. You don't have to chant 'Lets do nothing' but just be sure to take no social respodsibility.
Not caring for the sick and dieing is easier than it sounds. It is the last intrusion on our lives. All that wasted money is saved. WE DON'T NEED TO BURY THE DEAD. That has shown to work best with ovens.

Gas is cheap now, so take a flight and smirk. That reciculated air in a hypo baric pressure tube is less dangerous than an infected TSA agent. :^/


27 Jun 20 - 07:24 AM (#4061655)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Do try not to be so bloody daft.


27 Jun 20 - 09:20 AM (#4061676)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Thanks elf! Yeah, I posted the new ones separately.

Underlying condition risk factors have changed, per the CDC. Pregnancy is in. Age is out.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-at-increased-risk.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fneed-extra-precautions%2Fpeople-at-higher-risk.html

Blicky


27 Jun 20 - 09:49 AM (#4061685)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri

Steve lives in a country where the rates have come way down, because nobody is as dangerous as what passes for the US federal government. I'm not entirely sure they aren't actively trying to kill citizens.

The fact that he's on the same bandwagon as the white supremacist Trumpers is just a coincidence. If the UK doesn't advise people to wear masks in public, then he doesn't need to. They only have had 309K cases and 43K deaths. No big deal.

Promoting not wearing masks in a country with 2.5 MILLION cases and 127,000 deaths is what idiots and/or killers do. But that's not what Steve was suggesting, I believe. I think it's personal, and *he* just doesn't want to wear a mask.

Personally, I find it's easier to avoid going anywhere when I can and wearing a mask when I can't is best.


27 Jun 20 - 10:15 AM (#4061688)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Not nice to make that little bandwagon slur, Jeri. You seem to be on Donuel's gas oven bandwagon. In a post yesterday I tried quite hard to be clear that I recognise the different situations our two countries are in, using Cornwall, where I live (very few cases) and Texas (major crisis). I also said that I am not anti-mask, and that I do possess masks. I've said that there is no mask-wearing culture round here, which, with our risk level low and getting lower, is perfectly understandable. I have said that I will (and do) wear a mask if required to do so. Along with many other people, I do have a lot of doubts about the efficacy of masks in many situations: misuse, improper reuse, false sense of security, ineffectiveness in part. Mask evangelists do not have a monopoly over the truth of the matter, though you would think so, reading some of the rather moralising comments here. I've said that I don't sport a mask myself but that I don't laugh at mask wearers. I support all the government advice on social distancing, travelling and visiting or meeting people and I stick to it all assiduously. There is no advice to wear a mask unless you use public transport. I shop for vulnerable people. My hands have never been cleaner or more sanitised, and my standard of personal hygiene, as I've said, is high. If you think that puts me in league with white supremacist trumpers or the purveyors of mass extermination, well you'll just have to go on thinking it, won't you.


27 Jun 20 - 11:19 AM (#4061697)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri

I'm not going to fight, Steve. I don't need that.


27 Jun 20 - 11:39 AM (#4061701)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Funerals in the age of Covid 19 are lonely affairs no matter what the cause of death. So if we are going to have one, let the wake be now.
"For he was a folly good jello, for he was a folly good jello
For He was a folly good JELLO
which he always did deny".

Thanks everyone for tolerating the final episode of The Steve Diversion Hour , he always loved those so much, "Its always about ME" Diversions were his favourite. His never changing request that others must change was steadfast to the end. Amen

Now back to news: Arizona has broken records of of infection
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-sets-covid-19-records-with-case-treatment-increases1


27 Jun 20 - 01:29 PM (#4061729)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

If you don't want fights, please don't start them. My response you was civil and consistent, thank you.


27 Jun 20 - 01:31 PM (#4061730)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

To you. I've cleaned my reading glasses.


27 Jun 20 - 01:42 PM (#4061733)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Lighter

"Citing 'irrational fears' of killer pandemic, Republicans fight face masks in Congress":

https://news.yahoo.com/citing-irrational-fears-of-killer-pandemic-republicans-fight-face-masks-in-congress-204027452.html


27 Jun 20 - 04:53 PM (#4061768)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

I can't read that. Present the unalloyed facts about masks as we know them to the people, make recommendations and leave it to us. I don't want to know what your politicos think about it.


27 Jun 20 - 06:46 PM (#4061780)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Lighter

The punchline is that the Republican congressman involved is an MD.

He advises his constituents *not* to wear masks - so as to defy the "misrepresentations" of the "media."

Mad, isn't it?


27 Jun 20 - 08:17 PM (#4061786)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Your politics is stark staring mad, so I tend to pay no heed.


27 Jun 20 - 08:58 PM (#4061788)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri

The rates in MD are fairly low (IMO) and going down, but Congress itself is a bunch of crossroads. Supposedly, masks are required in committee meetings. I don't know if anyone will enforce it.


27 Jun 20 - 09:10 PM (#4061791)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri

MD as in Maryland, where DC is, but not an MD, as in medical doctor. Politics seem to trump everything, including science, concern for others.


28 Jun 20 - 03:00 AM (#4061807)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

Whatever your figures are, they are meaningless

Hmmmmmm. They tell us that the statement is that wearing masks is better than not wearing. And may I quote (Sir) Peter Piot, director of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, AND who has headed up numerous UN AIDS groups.

"I would be happier wearing a mask at 1 metre, than not wearing one with 2 metre separation".

Having survived he said "after years fighting infectious dieases** - it was COVID that finally got me. Trust me, you don't want it, it causes organ damage"

I'll take my cue from Baron Piot KCMG, FRCP, FMedSci

**notably AIDS and the discovery of the Ebola virus.


28 Jun 20 - 04:34 AM (#4061815)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Why thank you, Mr Red, for misrepresenting what I posted. Here, for your delectation, is the full quote as you should have reproduced it:

"Whatever your figures are, they are meaningless in the way you put them.


28 Jun 20 - 04:35 AM (#4061816)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Speech marks optional.


28 Jun 20 - 07:35 AM (#4061856)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

In the US you will see FREE TESTING SIGNS however many people are ending up with bills between $2,000-$3,000 for that free testing depending upon the response of the testee.


28 Jun 20 - 01:44 PM (#4061901)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

I've been banned from going to Europe.


28 Jun 20 - 11:17 PM (#4061966)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

I hope all Americans have been, or at least people trying to come from here.


30 Jun 20 - 01:26 PM (#4062193)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Yup. Good coverage here.

Most of Europe smart smart smart, US being dumb, to the tune of that South Park about the invention of mormons.


01 Jul 20 - 09:26 AM (#4062292)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Ok cool new ooky info on the virus itself: not content just to hijack cells into making virus instead of whatever they were making till the cell bursts and releases all that newly-made virus, it gets infected cells to grow tentacles which *inject* virus into neighboring cells even *before* bursting.

https://triblive.com/news/health-now/inside-the-body-coronavirus-is-even-more-sinister-than-scientists-had-realized/


01 Jul 20 - 01:43 PM (#4062318)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg

a combination of ivermectin and doxycyclin is looking promising. google for yourselves. i am not going to provide links unless i feel fully confident about the quality of the research, which so far has varied between good enough to pretty darn awful to downright criminally fraudulent.


02 Jul 20 - 02:21 AM (#4062420)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

I saw a short video of Dr Fauci being quizzed on why he didn't advocate wearing masks sooner. He was a very capable interviewee. The message was something like "initially we didn't have enough masks even for hospital (etc) workers. Telling people to wear masks would have left hospitals without supplies." The implication was ............ work it out stoopid but he is to careful not to be that obvious.

And FWIW he is definitely taking a pot shot at Twitler if this headline is accurate "Coronavirus: Dr Fauci warns US might not reach herd immunity due to ‘anti-science, anti-authority,..."


02 Jul 20 - 02:28 AM (#4062421)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

New Scientist has loadsa articles on various aspect. One recent one pointed out the research that shows that the virus thickens the blood causing blood clots.

Another reported that after effects can linger a long time. Debilitaion/weak muscles eg.


02 Jul 20 - 06:09 AM (#4062440)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

As the US approaches 100,000 new infections per day and growing exponentially, contact tracing will have no effect.
The runaway models project 1 or 2 million deaths


02 Jul 20 - 11:04 AM (#4062471)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic

I am not (yet) ashamed to be an American.
I am not (yet) ashamed to be an American.
I am not (yet) ashamed to be an American.
I am not (yet) ashamed to be an American.
But that word 'ooky' definitely applies.


02 Jul 20 - 05:48 PM (#4062515)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

I started being ashamed with the torture thing, then had 8 years of shameless Obama, now back to shame, horror, and oh-come-on,-really?


02 Jul 20 - 07:31 PM (#4062527)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic

LOL
This is true: I remember being in the elementary school playground; sometimes we formed up for games with the leaders 'choosing' who would be on each team. Sometimes it was not so much a game as gangs forming up for whatever reason. I remember early on developing the principle that whatever the cause, don't form up behind the stupid fat kid. . .


03 Jul 20 - 04:46 AM (#4062572)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Ventillators will not be used anymore due to damage.
Oxygenating blood and returning it to the body is much better.


03 Jul 20 - 12:57 PM (#4062629)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: leeneia

The Kansas City Star had an article today on a 23-year-old man, Shakell Avery, who was in the hospital with Covid for 80 days. For most of it, he was unconscious, flat on his back and breathing with a ventilator. His life was saved by convalescent plasma, an experimental treatment in which antibodies from those who have already survived Covid are given in transfusion form. (The article makes it sound like only one transfusion was required.)

Just so you get a better picture, I will describe Shakell. He is black, he is big, and he wears glasses with light-brown frames. He wears his baseball cap the right way, and underneath it, his head is probably shaved. Shakell has no underlying health problems to explain why his illness was so terrible.

After hospitalization, Shakell needed rehab so he could walk again and even move his arms enough to feed himself. Two days ago he made a 5-minute speech urging other young people to take Covid seriously. Nurses and doctors who had treated him lined up on the sidewalk, all socially distanced, and cheered.

Three things to take away from this:

1. This convalescent plasma sounds really exciting.

2. What is it about Covid that one person can get it and not even know it, and others, like Shakell, suffer terribly? Is it something in our DNA?

3. Keep wearing your mask, keep social distance, stay home as much as you can. And quit worrying about politicians. Your safety is in your own hands.


04 Jul 20 - 01:37 AM (#4062680)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg

there are reports out now..google them yourselves or not..that a new strain of the virus is replacing old strain in US and it is 3-9 times as infections but not more fatal. It could explain some of the huge increase in numbers lately.


04 Jul 20 - 04:30 AM (#4062691)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

What is it about Covid that one person can get it and not even know it, and others, - genes? Lifestyle? Viral load? Luck. Tick any of the above.

3-9 times as infections but not more fatal. - less fatal? - as predicted by virologist-statisticians for years. It is the trend when the system a virus is working in, is working to defeat it. My guess, much like the e. coli O150 bacterium, is that the more benign strains have an ecological advantage. E. coli O150 propagates more slowly than other strains of e. coli so is out-competed for real estate.

Look at homo sapiens for a demonstrable example!


04 Jul 20 - 10:23 AM (#4062742)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Fascinating info from autopsies:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/01/coronavirus-autopsies-findings/


06 Jul 20 - 07:53 AM (#4063061)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

"99% of corona virus infections are HARMLESS!"
Donald Trump yesterday


06 Jul 20 - 08:36 AM (#4063070)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

If you don't want to spend $30 for the Mrrzy link:
it is about micro clots in the brain, heart, lungs and liver.
The lungs show hundreds of thousands of micro clots
A similar condition may occur with Dengue fever.
A cell that destroys platlets is responsible.


06 Jul 20 - 04:25 PM (#4063135)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Coronavirus news is not behind the paywall, washpo says...


06 Jul 20 - 06:36 PM (#4063155)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

They lied in this case.
My wife gets it free as a .gov employee


07 Jul 20 - 06:29 AM (#4063216)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The new strain of Covid 19 is even more infectious but but not more fatal.


08 Jul 20 - 11:13 AM (#4063363)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And now hear this:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/warning-of-serious-brain-disorders-in-people-with-mild-covid-symptoms


09 Jul 20 - 07:22 AM (#4063473)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

the other idiot child in charge of a country ravaged by COVID - Balsanaro - has COVID. According to the BBC.


09 Jul 20 - 07:44 AM (#4063477)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Mrzzy that brain disorder seems highly related to your micro clot post.

I see the same dark circles under the eyes in Brazil's president as Boris Johnson when sick.


09 Jul 20 - 08:01 AM (#4063479)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Scary shit, yeah.


09 Jul 20 - 03:03 PM (#4063535)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Going deep into the weeds of biochemistry, a result of Covid 19 infection is a production of super oxidized chemicals which in a sense kills like a disinfectant from the inside out. {irony alert}
70% of fatalities show evidence of the oxidation causing blood clots which can kill many people overnight including the young.
Cause of death is called respiratory but it is bloodclots throughout the body. Covid is acting like a hemmoragic disease like Dengue, Ebola and others on a microscopic scale.


10 Jul 20 - 08:37 AM (#4063634)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Excellent risk eval chart here

http://www.ezekielemanuel.com/writing/all-articles/2020/06/30/covid-19-activity-risk-levels?fbclid=IwAR2oNoUnjxrHjC1jrWUUYaBybVpYK4cOJuzLBEchi6PtIv4LpsgWxOSmx4o.


10 Jul 20 - 10:23 AM (#4063645)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

My health insurance nurse called me and gave me a contact number if I have questions about doctor or dentist appointments and evaluate how seriously I am taking self isolation.


12 Jul 20 - 10:49 PM (#4063950)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg

some hope is being seen with Leronlimab. google for yourself, or don't. I think even later in progression. Reduces inflammation.


13 Jul 20 - 07:29 AM (#4063984)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin

Today's bad news: stories from two different sources making it look very unlikely that lasting immunity happens. Instead, you can get it again within weeks or months (new infections, not persisting ones) and second time round it will be worse.

This doesn't happen with flu, and the chronic illnesses resulting from covid-19 seem likely be much more wide-ranging, common and severe than with any kind of flu.

Some countries (notably England, Brazil and the US) are going to be in serious trouble in a few months. There is no substitute for actually driving the infection rate to zero as fast as possible.


13 Jul 20 - 11:33 AM (#4064013)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

CDC adds 4 new symptoms:

Congestion, runny nose, nausea and diarrhea


13 Jul 20 - 12:33 PM (#4064026)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage

Jack, can you post the source of that information? Thanks.


13 Jul 20 - 12:40 PM (#4064028)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

immunity?


13 Jul 20 - 01:18 PM (#4064035)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage

That's a good start, but it's from April 24, 2020. We hopefully know more now.


13 Jul 20 - 02:00 PM (#4064041)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Here is something dated 13 July:

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/13/1005103/immunity-to-covid-19-could-disappear-in-months-a-new-study-suggests/


13 Jul 20 - 03:54 PM (#4064055)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin

Longer-term illness for survivors. MANY survivors, we aren't talking about freakish bad luck.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-53368768


13 Jul 20 - 09:12 PM (#4064089)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The USA poses a threat to Europe, Okinawa and the UK with Covid transmission. US military bases have created 100 new infections in Okinawa after they had reached 0 new infections. Wild Kingdom, Disney World and the Epcot Center are open for new infections because Florida is the infection epicenter of the world.


14 Jul 20 - 04:42 AM (#4064107)
Subject: RE: immunity.?
From: Donuel

The bad news is there are patients who have had Covid twice, months apart. Pure speculation is that they caught two different strains.
As you know we can get a flu varient more than once.

The good news is that there is a short period of immunity after having been infected.

I do not know the frequency of reinfection which is crucial data.

NIH has had a long running (holy grail) research program to make a GENERAL vaccine for ALL flu varients. Close but no cigar.


14 Jul 20 - 06:51 AM (#4064116)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Not for the first time you are peddling misinformation. There is little or no evidence of people having caught the virus twice, though there's plenty of evidence of fallible testing, for example people being told incorrectly that they are free of the virus who then think they've caught it twice. The body's adaptive immune response to this virus is not well understood and you really need to stop making things up.


14 Jul 20 - 11:50 AM (#4064153)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

First, this is not a flu virus, it's a coronavirus.

Second, there are actual reports, from medical sources (look'm up), of people getting reinfected. Sadly, the plural of anecdote is not data.


14 Jul 20 - 12:56 PM (#4064164)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin

There are quite a few people who've got it again after testing negative repeatedly. There are two explanations. The less scary one is that they got a new infection because the first one didn't confer immunity. The UTTERLY TERRIFYING one is what you're suggesting - because that means anyone who's had it could be a silent carrier, capable of getting sick again and infecting other people at any tome. Which wpuld instantly create a whole social class of lepers.


14 Jul 20 - 01:19 PM (#4064165)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage

One of the questions that is asked on the various online surveys being conducted (Boston Children's Hospital has one called "COVID near you" that I've participated in) is they ask if you've had the flu shot. It may be because there is a health reason, some kind of tangential immunity bump, or it may simply be to determine your willingness to take vaccines.


14 Jul 20 - 05:18 PM (#4064179)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And yay, foreign students without in-person classes get to not go home after all, to spread the virus we are refusing to contain...


14 Jul 20 - 05:34 PM (#4064182)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Jack, the more prosaic explanation is that a person previously infected who is not clear of the virus has been erroneously told, after a test, that they are clear. Then, when symptoms recur, they think they've had it twice. As the testing is notoriously unreliable (I read somewhere...can't remember now... that around 30% of tests give false results), it behoves us to be cautious about claiming that immunity is either short-lived or non-existent. For a start, that would be somewhat untypical of this type of virus. There is a lot we don't yet know about this, and it would be best to avoid the kinds of wild conjecture we're seeing in this thread.


15 Jul 20 - 06:41 AM (#4064228)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin

Some of the repeat illnesses have been after something like 3 months apparently clear. The consquences of treating everybody who's had it as Typhoid Mary would be appalling.

Long-term immunity to coronaviruses is unusual.


15 Jul 20 - 06:50 AM (#4064230)
Subject: RE: BS: New neSts on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Steve thats the first time in ages you have made a reasonable speculation. You might not be right but sometimes even a blind squirell finds a nut.


15 Jul 20 - 09:41 AM (#4064262)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

The only nut round here is you.

Jack, the fly in the ointment is always the fallibility of testing. Someone who has "had the virus twice" would (a) have been tested twice, at the right time, months apart, (b) been tested twice via an ultra-reliable test. (a) would be very unusual. (b) is currently nowhere near achievable. Not saying for one second that you can't catch it twice. But this type of virus does generally confer some immunity, if only for a short time, and, let's face it, the disease has only been in the domain of the known for not much more than half a year. "Catching it twice" is, as far as I can see, still in the realm of rumour.


15 Jul 20 - 07:59 PM (#4064344)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

Holy Shit!


15 Jul 20 - 08:30 PM (#4064346)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Since April the data regarding the pandemic was declared classified by the US Executive branch. This is essentially old news but its good for the people to be made aware of whats going on even if is late in the game. In reality there was virtually more effort and planning that went into hiding info than preparing to eliminate, trace and treat.
First WHO was demonied, now the CDC and Fauci of the NIH is demonied.
Its always someone else's fault on the Trump Show.


15 Jul 20 - 09:42 PM (#4064352)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor

Look for a precipitous drop in case and death counts. This is nazism plain and simple.


16 Jul 20 - 09:32 AM (#4064426)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

On the bright side, under the radar there are several signs of hope.
Therapeutics like Resdemivir etc. are arriving before vaccines, rapid low cost saliva tests are a game changer and past exposure to common cold corona virus might help and vaccine trials seem to work.
There is also mono clonal antibodies that will be coming onto market this Fall. They are working and are not a rumor.

New research accounts for 20-50% who have never been exposed to Covid 19 but still have immune cells that react to this new virus. The speculation for that, is that past exposure to normal common cold corona virus' creates a cross connectivity for partial or full immunity. Bear in mind that it is my wife and not I who works for the NIH. There are some things that are considered a 'close hold' and can not be discussed openly but there is real and substantiated progress being made.


16 Jul 20 - 02:13 PM (#4064457)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The CDC data now goes to HHS under the loyal leadership of a former Cocapoo breeder and groomer.
Like the French underground in WW2 the true patriots will disobey and undermine the occupying enemy.


16 Jul 20 - 05:16 PM (#4064478)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

I hope everybody sends to the cdc as well as hhs.


16 Jul 20 - 05:24 PM (#4064481)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: The Sandman

Oxford scientists believe they have made a breakthrough in their quest for a Covid-19 vaccine after discovering that the jab triggers a response that may offer a "double defence" against the virus.

Phase I human trials of the world-leading Oxford vaccine have shown that it generates an immune response against the disease, The Telegraph has learned.

Blood samples taken from a group of UK volunteers given a dose of the vaccine showed that it stimulated the body to produce both antibodies and "killer T-cells", a senior source said.

The discovery is promising because separate studies have suggested antibodies may fade away within months, while T-cells can stay in circulation for years.

However the source cautioned that the results, while "extremely promising", did not.


16 Jul 20 - 06:45 PM (#4064493)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Did not what?

And why on earth is anybody trying to keep vaccine research secret? It shouldn't *be* a hacking issue. This is a *global* problem.


16 Jul 20 - 10:25 PM (#4064511)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: The Sandman

mrzy the rest of the article was not available without subscription, but there is some optimsm to be shared, so i shared what was available


17 Jul 20 - 07:47 AM (#4064558)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

yesterday 73,000 new cases per day in the US means that once we hit 100,000 per day the exponential increase will soon spike to a million infections per day. But mediation efforts may still prevent the 'Virus gone Wild' horror movte we are watching. A third of the kids in Florida are infected. How long term it will be is an unknown possibility.
On the bright side the sun is shining.


17 Jul 20 - 07:53 AM (#4064559)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Should we trust our Dentist regarding transmission?


17 Jul 20 - 09:13 AM (#4064571)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Depends on your dentist and on you, tjat last.

Apparently it is a thing now, if you don't agree with masks, to wear one made out if lace or something useless for the purpose.


17 Jul 20 - 09:45 AM (#4064582)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Oh and here are some fascinating data:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/17/covid-19-symptoms-falls-into-six-different-groupings-study-finds-coronavirus


18 Jul 20 - 06:34 PM (#4064831)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

My toothache is going away with ampicillain. My dentist will be making a round trip to San Fran this weekend so I hope I last a couple weeks until Dr. Drillenfill is clear of infection. The worst case of flu I ever got was from a sick passenger on a flight.


18 Jul 20 - 08:09 PM (#4064842)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

"The worst case of flu I ever got was from a sick passenger on a flight."

You don't know that.


19 Jul 20 - 04:56 AM (#4064871)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

The worst case of flu I ever got was from a sick passenger on a flight.

So far. A week is a long time with Captain Catastrophe at the helm.


FWIW I am hearing that the UK Gov wants (is?) to ignore death that occur 28 days after the patient has recovered from COVID. So if there is no test? And all we hear from the emerging symptoms is that there are lingering symptoms that are not trivial. As reported by Sir Peter Piot, world expert on infectious viruses. He says you don't want it.

Massaging statistics? All those that say NO - bugger off. We don't need you.


19 Jul 20 - 08:04 AM (#4064890)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Steve, seeing that the sick passenger was seated right behind me and coughed and sneezed all the way with watery eyes I was fairly certain. I woke up after a week to find my wife was uneffected and healthy. But go ahead and feel entitled to know best what I know and feel better than I. I suspect I've judged you too. Grudge not lest you be grudged.


19 Jul 20 - 09:22 AM (#4064898)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Ok, now, here is something weird going on: apparently many, many fewer preemies. Maybe the lockdown gave pregnant women a break?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/19/health/coronavirus-premature-birth.html


19 Jul 20 - 09:24 AM (#4064899)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

You simply couldn't know for sure whether you caught it from him or even whether you had the same disease as him. I sat next to kids in classrooms for decades and was coughed over and sneezed on and handled their snotty books many times. I rarely got ill and there was not one single occasion on which I could attribute any ague I picked up to any particular pupil. You have a habit of making things up and/or expressing conjecture as certainty. That's all.


19 Jul 20 - 01:41 PM (#4064933)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Oh, Steve Shaw, sometimes you can, indeed, know how you got sick.

Twin A comes home from daycare with a stomach bug. A few days later, Twin B and I and other parent all come down with stomach bug. We got it from Twin A. Who got better and wanted to *play* (they were about 18 months old at the time) while the rest of us wete clinging to life by our buckets.

Niece comes to Thansgiving on a Tuesday night with a stomach bug. By Sunday night, mom, all 4 of us kids and one spouse, all 7 cousins, an ex- and their new spouse, and our 90+-year old guests -only there for the few hours of dinner itself- all had it. In three states. We got it from Niece. The CDC said if it spread beyond the family they would get involved.

So, lay off Donuel. Even if he's wrong about knowing where he got his cold.

That Thansgiving we all got a prize: I got lasy holdout


19 Jul 20 - 01:46 PM (#4064935)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Oops went to correct that typo and accidentally prematurely posted.

I got last holdout, as I didn't throw up till I got Mom back to DC from Philly, Sunday night.

Wil [Twin A] got best-dressed thrower-upper, for keeping his nice clothes neat despite getting up to barf every half-hour or so.

Tim [Twin B] got his prize for barfing himself out of an armchair without waking up, not to barf, not when landing in a heap on the floor, but I don't remember the name of the prize.

Anyway. Story of epidemic past...


19 Jul 20 - 04:20 PM (#4064968)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs

It does appear that some people develop a body rash either during or after having covid.


19 Jul 20 - 06:02 PM (#4064987)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Yes rash is a known symptom. Probably to do with the horrible clotting crap.


19 Jul 20 - 08:29 PM (#4065005)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

"Probably?" Stop guessing.


20 Jul 20 - 02:33 AM (#4065030)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

Probably to do with the horrible clotting crap. - it looks like being careful with words and logic didn't work, you should have just gone with definitely and be ready for the unwarranted criticism.

OK. OK. I am ready now.


20 Jul 20 - 03:35 AM (#4065036)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin

It's encouraging that the drugs which show signs if being useful are old and cheap - dexamethasone, heparin and colchicine. (Hydroxychloroquine would have been another, if it had worked better). Not everybody researching treatments is trying to make a fortune for the drug companies.


20 Jul 20 - 04:37 AM (#4065041)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Well Mr Red, I have a real thing about people who clearly don't know what they're talking about making "authoritative" assertions about medical matters. In this area above all others we should be sticking to the known facts, not casually risk misleading people. "Probably" means "much more likely than not" and, in the context used, is unsupportable.


20 Jul 20 - 08:30 AM (#4065066)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Europe bans Americans from entry. Even Bermuda has banned Americans.

I started the original thread on the emerging Pandemic, Steve was instrumental in getting it closed. Repeat performances are not welcome.
While I worry, I know how important it is to not give in to despair regarding the pandemic particularly in Trump's America. Tidbits of knowledge as they emerge does save lives.


20 Jul 20 - 11:35 AM (#4065093)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

From my experience not even doctors can give an authoritative assesment of future events. There are best possibilities and risk assesments but no guarantees. The words possibly and probably are practicly fraternal twins and are not everyone's pet peeve.

In one of the infection types, micro hemmorages are the causal problem.
Clotting is diminished but is still a problem in effect. Ergo Heperin is used.


20 Jul 20 - 03:41 PM (#4065126)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

"Steve was instrumental in getting it closed."

Do expand.


20 Jul 20 - 04:20 PM (#4065136)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons

"Yes rash is a known symptom."
Strange that the NHS don't seem to mention it.
Nor do America's CDC who show a longer list on their website: Centre for Disease Control
Watch for symptoms
People with COVID-19 have had a wide range of symptoms reported – ranging from mild symptoms to severe illness. Symptoms may appear 2-14 days after exposure to the virus. People with these symptoms may have COVID-19:

Fever or chills
Cough
Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
Fatigue
Muscle or body aches
Headache
New loss of taste or smell
Sore throat
Congestion or runny nose
Nausea or vomiting
Diarrhea
This list does not include all possible symptoms. CDC will continue to update this list as we learn more about COVID-19.


20 Jul 20 - 04:25 PM (#4065137)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons

Of course, as the thread title specifies "News" rather than conjecture. Here's the latest news on a possible vaccine: BBC: Oxford Vaccine

A coronavirus vaccine developed by the University of Oxford appears safe and triggers an immune response.
Trials involving 1,077 people showed the injection led to them making antibodies and T-cells that can fight coronavirus.
The findings are hugely promising, but it is still too soon to know if this is enough to offer protection and larger trials are under way.
The UK has already ordered 100 million doses of the vaccine.


20 Jul 20 - 05:05 PM (#4065145)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Yes, that is looking promising. Early days, though.


20 Jul 20 - 05:13 PM (#4065149)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The US infection rate is 9.0% and 1 % of the population has already experienced Covid 19.
The UK infection rate is 0.6% .


20 Jul 20 - 05:35 PM (#4065158)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Meaningless.


20 Jul 20 - 05:40 PM (#4065161)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red

Well Mr Red,

Like shooting (Mudcat) fish in a barrel. Hardly a sport. But in the era of COVID one does what one can............



Meanwhile the Oxford vaccine is going on to bigger trials and the British Gov has ordered 100 million doses for an anticipated distribution in October, we are told today by the BBC. A gamble, for sure, but cf the furlough pay-outs - not too costly. The doses won't all stay in the UK, that was part of the deal.
And back home: front-line workers, care home staff, bin men, shop workers, then maybe old fogies next.


20 Jul 20 - 08:17 PM (#4065177)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

The Oxford vaccine, whilst showing promise, has reached a point at which other potential vaccines have failed, so don't build up hopes.


20 Jul 20 - 08:29 PM (#4065180)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Not true, when compared with Moderna in the US

Col.Blimp has become Debbie Downer.


20 Jul 20 - 08:57 PM (#4065188)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw

Thanks for the gratuitous insult.

"not true." As ever, you haven't done your homework and you're spouting off without having a clue as to what you're talking about. The vaccine shows promise and looks safe. But every scientist working on the scheme would tell you that many potential vaccines have reached this stage of development, then failed at the next hurdle. I invite you to look that up (as I have).


21 Jul 20 - 05:50 AM (#4065235)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin

From the public statements I've seen, the Oxford team are not claiming much long-term effect. Using it in practice would require dosing a very large proportion of the population very quickly and with a lot of booster shots. There is no precedent for a programme like that. In the US, not many healthcare workers would survive the inevitable massacres by gun-toting anti-vaxxers.


21 Jul 20 - 12:33 PM (#4065290)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Aaaand we're worse off than we think.

Murrica!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/health/coronavirus-infections-us.html


22 Jul 20 - 05:12 AM (#4065378)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

At 1,000 deaths per day in the US the 'good massaged numbers' show the US is 10th worse death rate in the world per capita.

The actual numbers are as always a guarded secret or unknown.


22 Jul 20 - 08:15 AM (#4065403)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Trump announces masks are OK. As a pandemic wartime president is this his Midway where the US gained its first advantage after Pearl Harbor?


24 Jul 20 - 07:07 AM (#4065670)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

And no RNC!


25 Jul 20 - 06:10 PM (#4065837)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Well, kinda old, and kinda not *this* virus, but interesting!


26 Jul 20 - 06:10 AM (#4065892)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin

You need a sub to read this. Summary: taking proton pump inhibitors (like omeprazole) makes you significantly more likely to get covid-19; the other major class of stomach acid inhibitors, histamine-2 antagonists, pose no risk.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/933645


27 Jul 20 - 01:23 PM (#4066137)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Blood group not found to relate to risk upon further research.

Here is one study but I recommend researching your own.


27 Jul 20 - 02:07 PM (#4066151)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Thompson

What clever little creatures humans are. What a pity they're going extinct.


27 Jul 20 - 06:00 PM (#4066180)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Raise your glass for a toast to Disney and their economic wisdom in reopening in Florida 2 weeks ago. https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/health/florida-covid-children-hospitalizations/index.html


30 Jul 20 - 09:50 AM (#4066561)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

So far though protests do not appear to be causing additional outbreaks. I am surprised, and pleased.

Here is one source.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/22/trump-coronavirus-briefing-black-lives-matter-protests


31 Jul 20 - 06:08 AM (#4066675)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Vic Smith

!!! BREAKING NEWS !!!
The government is increasingly worried about the effect that their impetuous knee-jerk reactions to the coronavirus are having in confusing the public. In particular, the decision to have different regulations for different local lockdowns appears to be understood by very few people, certainly not themselves.
In an attempt to deal with this, they are setting up a body of the leading nineteen Conservative politicians. They will meet regularly to deal with the implications of their past, present and future failures in their reactions to the pandemic.
The body will be called the Committee Overseeing Very Idiotic Decisions. It will be referred to by its acronym and its total of members; the thinking is that calling it COVID 19 will give a good ring to it.


09 Aug 20 - 08:32 AM (#4067790)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Jared Kushner was actually put on the task force and made plans for contact tracing. All his plans were actually rejected and his involment is now ended.

I actively discredit the conspiracy theories as our enemy be they foreign or domestic. The news that Hispanic children are 8 times more likely to require hospitaliztion and black kids are 5 times more likely than white kids to need hospitalization has me on more shakey ground as to the possible reality of a racial specfic weapon most valued by racists may actually exist in the form of Covid 19. Proof awaits.

The insanity of gas warfare turning against the users at the whimsey of the wind comes to mind.


09 Aug 20 - 10:55 AM (#4067802)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

Close US bars OR close the schools. Ya can't do both without disaster.


09 Aug 20 - 11:26 AM (#4067807)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Neck gaiters don't help, fleece makes it worse:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/08/08/us/duke-university-face-mask-test-trnd/index.html

Blicky


09 Aug 20 - 01:11 PM (#4067820)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

There are fogging issues with glasses but I've stuck with the N-95's


09 Aug 20 - 02:30 PM (#4067833)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage

Meanwhile, in South Dakota:

Thousands of bikers heading to South Dakota rally to be blocked at tribal land checkpoints

Clampdown comes as fears mount that mask-free bikers headed to large gathering could spread coronavirus to tribal groups


The tribal lands are sovereign, and they can keep the bikers out when their lack of protection and precautions as they travel endanger all in their path.


10 Aug 20 - 03:20 AM (#4067865)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Sandra in Sydney

good news - Australian toddler stranded in India helped home by newlyweds


11 Aug 20 - 02:04 PM (#4068012)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Aaand Russia claims to have a vaccine. We'll know in 5 years...


12 Aug 20 - 02:21 PM (#4068149)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Interesting article on telepsychiatry here. For those of us who miss our shrinks...


20 Aug 20 - 01:20 PM (#4068973)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

Also apparently the loss of smell/taste is brain damage to nerves, not trouble with the taste buds or olfactory receptors. Heard on NPR and seen elsewhere.


22 Aug 20 - 01:15 PM (#4069183)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

I am beginning to lose patience with people not "believing in" science as if it were something subject to faith. Murricans. Sign. Arrgh! Sigh.


25 Aug 20 - 07:34 AM (#4069560)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: JHW

I've found 'mask-free bikers' a problem. On footpaths a biker may be suddenly there with no attempt at distancing and giving me no time to distance either. Sure a quick encounter is supposedly low risk but they shouldn't even be biking on many such paths.


25 Aug 20 - 03:50 PM (#4069614)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

The curious case of a man getting Covid 19 twice is not conclusive. It could be by 2 different strains OR a mild first case did not trigger an immunity response. The confirmed second infection did not present symptoms. These cases are rare so it may not have any bearing on vaccine immunity response.
npr


07 Sep 20 - 08:07 AM (#4071055)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy

The long-term lung damage can get better!

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/06/health/covid-19-long-term-effects-study-wellness/index.html

Blicky.


08 Sep 20 - 04:31 PM (#4071222)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel

opinion:
Here comes the mature pandemic. Even with the downsized administration numbers we are at 1,000 deaths a day and 6.2 million contagious infections in the USA. The total number of deaths could double by Jan. 1st. As Rap said the real number of deaths may never be known. Just as people are exhausted by keeping their guard up we will be going indoors, kids to schools, bars to open and gathering at the yule log, all while the number of infections sky rocket. Some call it the second wave. I call it the lingering Trump disaster. LTD

A virus is not political, racist or compassionate but it is nice it spares women and children in some regards.


08 Sep 20 - 11:55 PM (#4071256)
Subject: RE: BS: What Labor Day plans during COVID-19?
From: Stilly River Sage

Sturgis motorcycle rally in South Dakota in August linked to more than 250,000 coronavirus cases, study finds

excerpts:

News comes a week after the first COVID-19 death linked to the 10-day event that drew more than 400,000 people was recorded

The event will cost an estimated $12.2 billion in health-care costs, they wrote.

“In counties with the largest relative inflow to the event, the per 1,000 case rate increased by 10.7 percent after 24 days following the onset of Sturgis Pre-Rally Events,” the researchers wrote. “Multiplying the percent case increases for the high, moderate-high and moderate inflow counties by each county’s respective pre-rally cumulative COVID-19 cases and aggregating, yields a total of 263,708 additional cases in these locations due to the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally.


09 Sep 20 - 12:29 PM (#4071329)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

I moved the above post from a less appropriate thread because I couldn't find this New news one. I've added COVID-19 to the title so searching it easier.

Those fools on motorcycles must have engaged in magical thinking to believe they could get away with such reckless behavior. The governor was all for it, but she and other officials who invited the activity will never be held accountable.


09 Sep 20 - 01:14 PM (#4071335)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Ah, I wondered at the name change, thanks!

This is such a litigious society I bet there will be lawsuits over this, that Maine wedding, etc...


09 Sep 20 - 02:32 PM (#4071337)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Breaking News"   Bob Wooward released the tape of Trump admitting he knew exactly how deadly Novel Corona Viris is and purposfully down played the pandemic to Americans.

Donald has killed more than one person on 5th Avenue and gotten away with it. The anger builds at 190,000 deaths.


09 Sep 20 - 02:37 PM (#4071338)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Washpost: Trump told Bob Woodward on Feb 7 "You just breathe the air and thats how its passed..."


11 Sep 20 - 12:56 PM (#4071548)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

Have just heard from my poor sister and she is really struggling. Her lungs are absolutely messed up, she has tachycardia and her oxygen levels are dangerously low. Her GP has made several appointments at the local hospital for scans and assessments, and she might be admitted as an in-patient. There are now 'Covid clinics' being set up everywhere, as people are finding the after-effects to be serious and even life-threatening, despite surviving the actual virus.
Her lungs fill up alarmingly with fluid, and she mentioned 'bradykinin overload' (she's a doctor so I don't always understand these things) Apparently it's an enzyme which stimulates secretions via the blood vessels into the lungs and one can even drown!!
I do so wish people knew about these post-Covid symptoms - they'd soon obey the safety rules if they knew the actual facts.


11 Sep 20 - 01:28 PM (#4071553)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

Sorry, forgot to say, she caught Covid19 back in March, so about six months ago.


11 Sep 20 - 03:12 PM (#4071560)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Man, Senoufou, horrible.


11 Sep 20 - 03:32 PM (#4071563)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

It is indeed Mrrzy. She seemed to be getting a little better a few weeks ago, but I think she was reluctant to trouble me with the gory details and make me worry. I just hope they can re-admit her to hospital and get her lungs cleared somehow.


12 Sep 20 - 11:04 AM (#4071630)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

So sorry to hear about your poor sister, I do hope they can help her.


12 Sep 20 - 01:45 PM (#4071650)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

Thank you so much Bonzo.
So ironic, as we thought she was getting along quite well. She said that her GP told her there are about 60,000 people in UK with this dangerous post-Covid lung problem, and so far not much has been discovered as to how to treat it.
Husband is so upset,as she has been very kind and generous to his family, and the last time we were up in Tayside visiting her (two years ago) she was extremely kind and treated us like royalty!


12 Sep 20 - 08:12 PM (#4071681)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

I've read about some steroid treatments being used now, a fairly recent development, of using low cost Rx steroids on people who had the worst cases. I wonder if it would apply to this manifestation as well. Best wishes for her next recovery from this.


13 Sep 20 - 09:46 AM (#4071729)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

Thank you Stilly for your good wishes. I'll mention the steroid treatment to her, it may be that's the answer!


13 Sep 20 - 01:50 PM (#4071742)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Prior to and during infection it is wise to take vitamin D supplements. The reason why is because Vitamin D SLOWS DOWN a cytocline storm (a monster immune response that attacks the body indescriminatly)

It also speeds up safe healing. Perhaps you see the connection between dark skin people having less vit D production compared to light skinned people and as a result have a higher rate of morbidity and fatality. There are many other factors and influences but vit D is readily available and relatively safe.

Getting sufficient sunshine is even better than supplements.

I heard it on npr


13 Sep 20 - 06:39 PM (#4071761)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Ebbie

Well, so far I have lost my last remaining sister and a cousin, in Oregon and Virginia respectively to the virus.

That leaves just one brother and myself alive out of nine children, some of whom died 20 years or more ago. I told my brother that I don't want to be the last one living so he has to take good care of himself for awhile yet. He is a trumper, though, so I don't have too much hope.


13 Sep 20 - 07:28 PM (#4071767)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney

thinking of you & your sister, Eliza. I hope she can get into hospital & get some treatment that helps her.

hugs to you, too Ebbie,


14 Sep 20 - 03:43 AM (#4071792)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

Thank you Sandra, it helps so much to have this support on Mudcat.
And I'm so sorry Ebbie for your losses. A hug from me too.
I think you're right Steve, because my sister was extremely vigilant about her food. She must have been the most correctly-fed person in Scotland, because she always made sure her diet was beautifully balanced and complete regarding all the vitamins, minerals and essential things. (Organic food from farmers' markets etc) She was so active and strong it was phenomenal. Whizzing up mountainsides, playing table tennis for a team, going for ten-mile hikes. etc. So I imagine that the vitamin D levels in her body were as they should be.
I suppose however up in Scotland the sunshine is more scarce, whereas I'm as brown as a berry down here in Norfolk, sunning myself on The Bench. (But not in a bikini -wouldn't want to alarm the locals!)


14 Sep 20 - 07:42 AM (#4071813)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

I am more likely to believe npr than our local dangerous mudcat mask denier.
Personally I don't feel I react well to vitamin D supplements. it feels achey or is a coincidence


14 Sep 20 - 12:22 PM (#4071846)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

I read recently (forget where) that most vitamin/mineral supplements just go straight through you and aren't absorbed particularly well by the body. But well-chosen food is a better way to boost levels to the optimum.
Perhaps we should just all drink copious amounts of bleach, as advised by the Big Toddler.


14 Sep 20 - 12:37 PM (#4071850)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Especially calcium.
People who drink bleach briefly complain of heart burn and sore throat. ;^/

Taiwan is the currently world leader in preventing covid infection due to contact tracing and a VP who is also an epidemeologist.


14 Sep 20 - 08:08 PM (#4071885)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

The 07.42 AM post is a troll post, mods, put out here by a liar.


14 Sep 20 - 08:34 PM (#4071886)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Steve. Stop it. You're stalking Donuel. If you don't like what he posts then don't open the threads where he is participating.


14 Sep 20 - 08:40 PM (#4071887)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

I'm sorry about your siblings, Ebbie. This is such a difficult time for so many reasons.


15 Sep 20 - 01:52 AM (#4071907)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Ebbie

Thanks for the good thoughts, everybody. It is a difficult for us all, isn't it.


15 Sep 20 - 09:15 AM (#4071945)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Aw, Ebbie, how awful.

I've had 3 cousins [loosely defined] get it, only one of whom, in their 20s, got really sick. My uncle who died of old age had it when he died, but did not die *of* it. My kid's girlfriend's positive test was deemed a false positive after a follow-up antibody test.

But the guy I work with on activism lost his brother, and there's you guys, so I know how lucky I am. I continue to be careful.


15 Sep 20 - 09:24 AM (#4071949)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Ebbie its OK by me if you're the last one standing.
You are a Fiesty & smart favorite.


15 Sep 20 - 12:43 PM (#4071970)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

I just talked a friend through the process for getting the COVID-19 test through the county. He wasn't sure if the recorded message they sent was phishing of some sort, but it's just a weird way the county sends out messages. Anyway, it helps if everyone is tested, even those who think they couldn't possibly have it. One less question mark for county officials for the time being.


15 Sep 20 - 02:35 PM (#4071977)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

However, test availability may be limited, in which case would-be testees need to be prioritized.


15 Sep 20 - 08:58 PM (#4072015)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Maggie, he called me a dangerous mask-denier.

I have complied with every mask requirement for many weeks. I have a large supply of masks at the ready in my car wherever I go. I pester all my family to ensure that they always have masks at the ready. I would never break the mask rules. Or encourage anyone else to do so. I do question the efficacy of wearing masks, true, but I do not encourage mask rebellion in the slightest. Yes, I have confronted Donuel about his serial misinformation on a number of occasions in recent times, in threads in which I take an interest. I have always done that in a measured way, I can fully justify every criticism of him that I make (try asking me), and I have no interest in following him around on topics in which I have no interest. Please do not pull me up for "stalking" when I have just defended myself against blatant misrepresentation.

You criticised me very publicly. You are not always right. I have responded equally publicly. You could have done this via PM, and I would have responded civilly in the same vein, but you chose not to. I fully accept that I may have gone for Donuel's jugular a few times too often (though you do appear not to have noticed his trolling needling). If you decide to delete this, as is your right, I would ask you to also delete your post accusing me of stalking this vexatious man. If you don't, be assured that this post will remain in my archive.

Cheers

Steve


15 Sep 20 - 09:12 PM (#4072017)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

The last time I read any of your posts about COVID-19 and masks, you were still suggesting they weren't necessary in your area and you weren't wearing them. If that's what I remember, that is quite possibly what others also remember. There is a gap in the information supplied. Good for you for wearing masks now.

Following people around from thread to thread and fighting about stuff or insulting others on each of those threads is what gets 1. threads closed and 2. people kicked out of Mudcat. So stop doing it. I've had messages from others about this and decided this is the place and the time to make the case AGAIN that anyone who does this (and there are others, you aren't alone) is going to find a "BONK" message after a while if they don't cut it out. We're trying to improve the general demeanor around here, and it has meant ushering the fighting parties off of the property. There have been lots of second and third chances offered.

This is it. Stay with the thread topic from here on out, please.


16 Sep 20 - 08:27 AM (#4072063)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

So, um, timidly going back to the thread itself..

Indonesia condemns mask nonwearers to digging graves for covid dead:

Blicky

I kinda like that.


16 Sep 20 - 10:45 AM (#4072088)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Texas is supposedly going to have access to a "$5 five minute COVID-19 test" that will be supplied by the federal government.

$5, 15-minute rapid COVID-19 tests are coming to Texas

A spokesman for the Texas Department of State Health Services said the tests are being allocated by the federal government and that the state was discussing how to deploy them.

"Imagine arriving at your office. You walk through the front door, stop at the front desk, and then take a COVID-19 test. Within minutes you are cleared to begin your work day.

Cheap, rapid coronavirus testing could change how businesses, schools and other places move forward during the pandemic, and Texas is hoping to be at the forefront."

I imagine the only reason Texas is getting them now is because it generally votes Republican and has a GOP governor who was "nice to Trump."

(And on an unrelated note, I hear ABC broadcast a Town Hall meeting it ran in Philadelphia that Trump attended last night and the Independent and Undecided voters really held his toes to the fire regarding his COVID-19 response, and other topics.)


16 Sep 20 - 11:45 AM (#4072094)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Unfortunately, the more "rapid" the test, the more likely it is to throw up a false result. That includes false negatives. A high proportion of those would arguably be more damaging than not testing at all.


17 Sep 20 - 06:28 AM (#4072185)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

And your paper won't let "readers in the EU" see the article you linked to. Haven't they heard that we've left? Let's hope that their journalism is a bit more accurate...


17 Sep 20 - 12:21 PM (#4072225)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

That paper has a paywall that pops up pretty quickly. Here are snippets of it.

The Food and Drug Administration recently issued emergency use authorization for the BinaxNOW COVID-19 Ag Card rapid test, produced by Abbott, a medical device and health care company.

The company plans to begin shipping tens of millions of rapid tests this month, increasing to 50 million per month by October. That means the U.S. could have the capacity to test more than 1.5 million Americans a day in October.

In the past week, there have been between 588,965 and 911,329 daily tests performed in the U.S., according to Johns Hopkins University. In Texas, the number of daily tests administered over the past week has ranged from about 58,000 to 98,000, according to Johns Hopkins. . . .


Test accuracy
Molecular tests like the PCR, or polymerase chain reaction, test has been the most common test throughout the pandemic. It is taken as a nasal swab, or it can be taken as a throat swab or saliva sample. Those samples are taken to a lab for processing and can take days to produce results.

Antigen rapid tests work differently by looking for a virus’s proteins. Antigen tests deliver results in a few minutes and are administered with a swab from the nose or throat without the need for the sample to be taken to an offsite lab. Because the results come back so quickly, there has been some doubt regarding their accuracy.

Within the first week of symptom onset, Abbott’s new test has a 97.1% positive percent agreement, meaning it is accurate by that percentage when a patient is positive, and a 98.5% negative percent agreement, meaning it is accurate by that percentage when a patient is negative, according to Abbott.

“In order for them to be a practical option, they have to be inexpensive, involve an easy sampling method, be readable in under an hour ideally, and be at least 70 to 80% accurate,” Petrosino said.

Even if Abbott’s test or other rapid tests were less than 70% accurate, they would still be “tolerable,” according to Petrosino because a follow-up test could be administered to double check.

“Highly accurate tests are ideal, but we know that the tests with the greatest accuracy are molecular tests,” Petrosino said. Because molecular tests require a deeper nasal sampling and need to be processed in a lab, they’re more expensive and require more time, according to Petrosino.

“And [it] involves a sampling method that is uncomfortable,” Petrosino said.

More tests to come
Abbott’s rapid test isn’t the only one that has received emergency use authorization by the FDA. In August, Yale School of Public Health was granted authorization for its SalivaDirect COVID-19 diagnostic test. While most COVID-19 tests require a nasal swab, Yale’s test uses a spit sample — one of five saliva sample tests that have received approval by the FDA.

Such a sample can be collected in any sterile container compared with nasal COVID-19 tests, which require extraction kits that are sent to off-site laboratories.

“Providing this type of flexibility for processing saliva samples to test for COVID-19 infection is groundbreaking in terms of efficiency and avoiding shortages of crucial test components like reagents,” Dr. Stephen M. Hahn, FDA commissioner, said in a statement.

Sometimes if you open an article from Twitter it lets you see content.

Dallas Morning News article


17 Sep 20 - 05:16 PM (#4072264)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Can't see that.


17 Sep 20 - 08:30 PM (#4072298)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Dr. Fauci, a basketball enthusiast, said he will play pick up basketball with Chris Hayes when the pandemic allows - as soon as the 4th quarter of this year.^/
He also said he will raise flags if corners are cut on vaccine.


17 Sep 20 - 09:11 PM (#4072304)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Whaduknow, Fauci is human. He just called Chris Hayes to say he mispoke and he meant the 4th quarter of NEXT year.


18 Sep 20 - 12:08 AM (#4072322)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

“Wearing of eyeglasses is common among Chinese individuals of all ages,” wrote the study authors. “However, since the outbreak of Covid-19 in Wuhan in December 2019, we observed that few patients with eyeglasses were admitted in the hospital ward.”

The observation “could be preliminary evidence that daily wearers of eyeglasses are less susceptible to Covid-19,” the authors speculated.


Does Wearing Glasses Protect You From Coronavirus?

After researchers noticed fewer nearsighted patients in a hospital ward in China, they speculated that wearing glasses might offer some protection against Covid-19.


25 Sep 20 - 12:05 PM (#4073082)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

My [Virginia] governor has it. And he's been careful and sensible.


25 Sep 20 - 01:54 PM (#4073091)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

The news just now said a staffer was found to test positive.

A trip to the dentist yesterday felt like living dangerously, even with all of the precautions they put in place. I'm self-isolating for a week at least just to play it safe.


25 Sep 20 - 05:26 PM (#4073107)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Our dentist uses Ozone treatment so need for us to self isolate!!


02 Oct 20 - 05:23 AM (#4073997)
Subject: BS: china and covid update
From: The Sandman

here is a copy and paste of how china has virtually eliminated covid.
   In January 2020, as the epicentre of the Covid-19 pandemic, China was grappling with cases in all 29 of its regions, daily increases in the triple digits, and an impending shortage of medical supplies. To tackle that, China went quick and hard – implementing lockdowns of various degrees of rigour in cities and regions across the country, resulting in about 760 million people being subject to restrictions. Every time an area showed a spike in cases, a lockdown followed.

Fast forward to today and China is on the other side of the pandemic: after weathering 85,307 coronavirus cases, and 4,634 deaths, the country is reporting just a handful of daily cases. On September 23, China’s overall number of active coronavirus cases was 402. The UK, which is hurtling towards a potentially devastating second wave, reported 6,178 new cases.

In May 2020, Xi Chen, an associate professor of public health at the University of Yale, published a study explaining how China’s prompt and decisive reaction – including “quarantines, city lockdowns, and local public health measures” – in the face of the first outbreak of Covid-19 resulted in the avoidance of what he and his coauthors estimated to be 1.4 million infections and 56,000 deaths.

But Chen does not think that all countries should go down that path. “Every country will adopt very different measures based on several things: there are more ways to control [the virus],” he says. “Decisions should take into account elements such as the country’s culture, its social norms, whether people will accept it, and also – very importantly – whether the health infrastructure is good enough to allow more spreading.” He points out that China’s ICU beds for 100,000 people are only half the UK’s, which made more stringent lockdowns inevitable.

Cultural differences matter, too. Regardless of the fact that China is an authoritarian state able to impose restrictions at the drop of a hat, it is an inescapable truth that some cultures are more resistant to limitations than others. Chen cites a recent study explaining how people living in the US’s westernmost states tend to be more individualistic and therefore less prone to observing restrictions than their east coast counterparts. Prime minister Boris Johnson’s remark about British people’s “freedom-loving” nature was crude, but gestured at something that does have an impact.

Johnson’s remarks – an attempt to explain the UK’s less successful handling of Covid-19’s second wave compared to countries like Germany or Italy – were made as he unveiled a new series of measures to stem the virus’s spread. Among the new measures is the requirement that pubs and restaurants close by 10pm; mandatory face mask-wearing for retail workers; hiked fines for Covid-security violations; and the recommendation that workers work from home if they can.

Some rules were met with bafflement: why, for instance would pubs have to close at 10pm rather than shut their doors altogether? And why did the “rule of six” – which allows six people from different households to meet up indoors and out – remain, despite the fact that inter-household spread seems to be one of the reasons cases are climbing up?

The answer is that at this stage every decision is a compromise between what is necessary and what can be done without further pummelling a prostrate economy and fatigued population.

“We know that total lockdowns work – the question is how much restriction do we need?,” says Keith Neal, an emeritus professor in epidemiology at the University of Nottingham. He says that falling back into a full-on lockdown every time cases start growing would exact a different cost: people’s health faltering because of missed tests and operations, and a more widespread deterioration in mental health. Compliance would also likely suffer.

Which is why you don’t want to overdo it. Shutting down pubs and bars might result in people meeting in their homes – which is harder to control. The emphasis, Neal thinks, should be on pubs following the guidelines to the letter. “If pubs follow the rules: service only if you are seated, social distancing – that is all right,” he says. “And pubs that break the rules should get closed first for one day, then for a week, then for a month and so on up to a year.”

According to David Wrigley, deputy chair of the British Medical Association Council, while the 10pm threshold seems “plucked out of thin air” and the rule of six for household mixing “should be reconsidered”, the latest guidelines are at least clear on issues such as face coverings. “Adherence to the rules is the most important thing, but the rules needed to be clearer,” Wrigley says. The government’s repeated changes of tack have been often criticised for being confusing, with the “Stay Alert” slogan singled out as a pinnacle of muddiness.

Will clarity – and minor tweaks to the rules – be enough to bring case numbers back under control? Many experts argue that the government is once again doing too little, too late. But Chen does not believe that repeated China-style lockdowns are going to be the future: they are way too onerous to be triggered as a routine countermeasure. In his latest study, he puts forward a new way of nipping the contagion in the bud, by enforcing different degrees of restrictions in different parts of the country – regions, cities, towns, down to the individual neighbourhood – depending on how bad the outbreak is, and how central to the country’s general movement of people that specific location is. “I don't think a complete lockdown is the optimal choice,” he says.

Gian Volpicelli is WIRED's politics editor. He tweets from @Gmvolpi


03 Oct 20 - 11:23 AM (#4074169)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Listening to the new-told lies / With supreme visions of lonelitude


05 Oct 20 - 03:32 AM (#4074362)
Subject: BS: PHE [uk]shambolic
From: The Sandman

Another example of Conservative shambolism
Coronavirus cases 'lost' in test and trace blunder

Ten-day delay means thousands exposed to virus were not told to self-isolate


05 Oct 20 - 05:48 AM (#4074374)
Subject: RE: BS: PHE [uk]shambolic
From: Nigel Parsons

The "[uk]" is both superfluous, and incorrect.
PHE is "Public Health England" so excludes much of "UK".


06 Oct 20 - 11:48 AM (#4074510)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

As much as it can be believed these days with the political meddling, the CDC has made the pronouncement that SARS-CoV-2 is spread primarily through the air. At least that was the announcement until the politicians start playing with their message again.


11 Oct 20 - 09:01 PM (#4075181)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Nearly 10,000 minks die after Covid-19 outbreak at Utah fur farms

"Like humans with Covid-19, the most common symptom for infected minks has been respiratory distress, he said.

“Minks show open mouth breathing, discharge from their eyes and nose, and are not sick for several days before they pass away,” Taylor said. “They typically die within the next day.”

Taylor added that the virus has predominantly targeted older minks, “wiping out 50 percent of the breeding colonies,” while leaving the younger ones unscathed."


13 Oct 20 - 09:56 AM (#4075380)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Latest casualty of the pandemic: sedation at the dentist. Mine just called to say they can't do sedation as they can't clean the apparatus. So no dentist as no way without sedation but also what? What have they been doing till now? Blowing other people's snot up my nose?


14 Oct 20 - 02:46 PM (#4075513)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Oh and blood groups are back in the mix. A may not be more vulnerable, but O is, apparently, less so. Feel free to google your own references.


15 Oct 20 - 03:02 AM (#4075541)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

In the UK we always knew it would end in tiers!!!


15 Oct 20 - 07:43 AM (#4075560)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

So London, where our son, daughter-in-law and only grandchild live, has been put in Tier Two. My missus has her 70th birthday next weekend. Our plans for even a limited get-together in our house have been shattered. They can't stay in our house and we couldn't meet them anywhere indoors. But anyone from London can come to Cornwall and stay in their second home, or come in their motor home, or stay in a hotel, and they can go to pubs and restaurants. To say that there's something wrong here would be a massive understatement. It looks like Christmas won't happen for us either. I hear that the track and trace system here is managing to contact less than two-thirds of people exposed to infection, whereas the science says that the system can't work unless at least 80% of contacts are traced.

By the way, flu vaccine has run out round here. We have two very vulnerable, elderly friends who can't get it for at least two more weeks.

But this bloody shower will get away with all this, won't they?


15 Oct 20 - 08:50 AM (#4075567)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Manitas_at_home

The government advice on this is vague beyond belief. If you travel from a tier 2 to a tier 1 area are you bound by the rules of the original area or the new one?


15 Oct 20 - 09:49 AM (#4075572)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Overall the pandemic has effected my family little. There are 25 million new jobless Americans and 6% more people who have fallen beneath the poverty line. We have no Covid assistance bill or a national response other than individual govenors taking less efficient charge.

The next coming pandemic/war will not be as comfortable or communicative as Covid 19. It will be of a cyber attack variety.
The US and Isreal started it with malware code like Olympic games, stuxnet and Zeus. We infected Iran. Now it has spread globally.
As in all war the credo is "do whatever you can get away with".
Instead of a pandemic where mostly old overweight people are killed the victims will be electric plants nuke plants, banks, hospitals and the internet.

So cheer up, it could be worse :^/


17 Oct 20 - 05:52 AM (#4075735)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

I look up to Tier 1 because there are no dragons there. I look down on Tier 3 - they know their place!!!!!!!!!


21 Oct 20 - 05:17 PM (#4076350)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Wherever you go, be bound by the rules of where you are. Seems obvious.

Meanwhile mouthwash apparently helps. Also seems obvious.


23 Oct 20 - 02:45 PM (#4076560)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

Some good news about my sister, who got Covid back in March and was left with Covid lungs. She has seemed a little better these last few days, and has been going for walks, gardening and cleaning her house.
She feels quite a bit of hope now that she may end up less wrecked than we thought. She does use her oxygen machine at night though, if her O2 levels drop too much.
I feel so chuffed about this. Fingers crossed that it continues!
Stay safe everybody, and don't take silly risks!


23 Oct 20 - 03:58 PM (#4076567)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: fat B****rd

Good to hear, Eliza
Sending best thoughts and regards as usual
Charlie x


23 Oct 20 - 04:52 PM (#4076571)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Ooh *good* news, Sen!


23 Oct 20 - 06:05 PM (#4076584)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

Thank you Charlie and Mrrzy. It's heartening isn't it? She's been so brave and positive, she's quite a tough lady!
I see our region (Breckland in Norfolk) has some more cases, and the originally low level has gone up a bit. I think it's in a small way due to the return of schools. I can't see any way out of this, unless an excellent vaccine becomes available soon.
Oxford laboratories have perfected an extremely good one, and it's starting tests now. All fingers (and toes!) crossed!


23 Oct 20 - 08:04 PM (#4076597)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

It seems people in the US don't see the death rate clearly. To make the number more real I realized by March we will be at the one year mark for those who lost the Covid battle. The conservative number of dead will amount to more than 10 times the annual automobile death rate.


24 Oct 20 - 12:16 PM (#4076686)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

My fave stat is <5% world population but >20% cases and deaths.


25 Oct 20 - 04:20 PM (#4076804)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

When the news IS the news, as when the Illinois Public Health Director broke down during her announcement of COVID deaths.

Dr. Ngozi Ezike, Illinois’ Public Health Director, on Friday first started sniffing loudly as she announced an extra 31 deaths, taking the state-wide total to 9,418 people who had succumbed to the pandemic.

“These are people who started with us in 2020 and won’t be with us at the Thanksgiving table,” Ezike said, struggling to also announce an extra 3,874 confirmed cases for a total of 36,433.

“Excuse me, please,” she finally said — wiping tears from her eyes as she turned her back to the camera during the live-streamed briefing.

She paused for almost 40 seconds as others brought out tissues to help her compose herself, finally turning back around, saying “I’m sorry” and taking a deep breath before continuing her remarks.


25 Oct 20 - 04:25 PM (#4076807)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

This pandemic would be a trial under any president. I fear it’s more of a trial under no president. No one is truly presiding over our government at this time. We don’t have a Roosevelt fighting off fear itself, we don’t have an LBJ with a flashlight under his chin promising help to New Orleans after a Hurricane, We don’t have Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter in hazmat suits walking through Three Mile Island to show their faith in the scientists that saved the east coast. We don’t even have George W. Bush, who after cowering in the rabbit hole on 9/11, pulled himself together, crawled up out of the ground, went to ground zero and did his level best to do the job of being president, being there for us.

All we have is a real estate pirate, trying to save his businesses and his political future.

    Trump says this country wasn’t built to be shut down, as if any modern country was built for such. There is open talk of having to balance dollars against deaths.It’s true, we might not be able to weather a depression in our time. The last one was weathered by people who were born in the nineteenth century and had seen depression before. The country was largely rural, the supply chains were more localized. But are we to just give up and let people die so their grandkids can waterski?

"I must ask you Mr. Trump. Can our economy and your political ambitions absorb two million dead Americans? Do the math, for once, and ask yourself, “How many people do two million people know?” Two million dead, will leave a lot of living who will remember.

?And to you, Texas Lt. Governor Dan Patrick, I must ask, what if the virus takes one or more of your grandchildren rather than yourself? A virus can mutate quickly. The U.S. has seen quite a bit of coronavirus infections in young adults. Children have died from the virus. You don't get to tell the virus whom to kill. Would you risk burying one of your grandchildren to keep from being called a socialist? I will humbly await your answer, sir."

- James McMurtry

How true!!!


26 Oct 20 - 10:41 AM (#4076908)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: SPB-Cooperator

heard on the wireless this morning. If people pay Boots £120 each time, people can get a covid test to make sure that they are not risking passing on covid at work or at other places, if they are an asymptomatic carrier.

Surely £5,440 a year is a small price to pay or making sure that our communities are safe. A paltry 40% of weekly salary for those on minimum wage. (irony).


26 Oct 20 - 11:16 AM (#4076912)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Lost Chicken in High Weeds

>we might not be able to weather a depression in our time. The last one was weathered by people who were born in the nineteenth century and had seen depression before. The country was largely rural, the supply chains were more localized

This is exactly the point I've been making for decades. I've tried in vain to inform people that the Great Depression should be a major wakeup call for today, you *cannot depend* on "the system" for much of anything, much less *everything*.

And now the COVID-19 ordeal has proven that out in a very relatively *light* way. I mean, we were panicking over toilet paper, hand gel, alcohol, paper towels, stuff like that, and it even got tough to get certain food items for a while, people were going nuts but this whole thing was pretty danged mild compared to the potentials.

"The system" has now become incredibly complex, and with greater complexity comes more potential points of failure. It's now a *global* system, which also means that that failure can come from *anywhere*, triggering a domino effect. So, at some point, something or another is going to trigger collapse, it's just inevitable, there are so many potential causes that one or more of them is bound to happen.

Now, getting back to your point that I quoted, not only were supply chains more localized, but in fact most, here in the rural areas at least, were self sufficient to a significant degree. Essentially *everyone* had their own gardens at the very least, and usually some chickens, a milk cow, often some hogs, a mule, etc. My Dad's family were poor country folk and had those things. The only things needed to be bought were staples like flour, salt, sugar, etc.

These days, essentially "everyone" is entirely dependent on store bought goods for *everything*, and lacks the knowledge to take care of themselves without that availability. Couple that with the sheer population growth since the Depression...the more people there are that are suddenly without, the more desperation and chaos there will be. And also consider the fact that...*people are meat*.

No matter what ever happens with presidents, nothing will stop any of this because the population will never again agree to do what it would take to repair the overall situation. People have no interest in making sacrifices, or willfully altering lifestyle to any significant degree. We won't be seeing the majority reverting to the needed levels of self sufficiency until the situation forces it on those who survive the aftermath.

A hard rain's a-gonna fall, it's just a matter of when, and what the specific initial trigger will wind up being. If it's not some sort of market issue, it'll be a worse pandemic or environmental catastrophe, and the very few who are in any way "prepared" will quickly be overwhelmed and depleted by the masses who are far, far from it.


26 Oct 20 - 11:38 AM (#4076913)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

We've moved on a little from this:
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Oct 20
Wherever you go, be bound by the rules of where you are. Seems obvious.


But it's not quite that simple. Wales is in lockdown (officially "Fire-break") but non-essential travel is not permitted. So I can't go to England to be covered by rules existing in a lower tier. (Unless it's for work, or essential health reasons)

It would seem to be "You are covered by both the rules of where you are from, and where you're going, so work on it being the more restrictive of the two". But even this isn't necessarily accurate.

The governments (plural) and local authorities do not make it sufficiently clear to be able to identify what the rules are, and whether people are breaking them.


28 Oct 20 - 06:27 PM (#4077158)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

I don't see why it is not that simple. You're in Wales, do Wales. You aren't in England, don't do England. Easypeasy.


30 Oct 20 - 05:34 PM (#4077509)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

The hospital beds are filling and the numbers are climbing steeply. Trump couldn't care less and if he loses the race, is not going to lift a finger to help people before he's out of office; that will be the time he races to enrich himself.

This is old news, that we have an awful president and he is behaving more badly with each passing day. But it bears repeating - and to serve as a reminder that everyone needs to vote. Don't sit home, thinking someone else will do it. Step up and be counted.


30 Oct 20 - 07:47 PM (#4077521)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Just a reminder that we all are in what is considered to be the first wave. Some confuse peaks with waves. Fauci says normalcy is 1 to two years away. National response is key.
With Trump denial the death toll in America is headed to 1 million. Biden could change half of that.


02 Nov 20 - 11:32 AM (#4077888)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Y'all reading that AI can identify covid from the sound of a cough? I am not adding my links in here yet. But seen from UK and US sources.


02 Nov 20 - 12:17 PM (#4077895)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

AI is usually a thread killer here, I'm glad you mentioned it.


05 Nov 20 - 10:09 AM (#4078328)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Weirdly enough all 6 of my relatives to catch it are on the jewish side of the family. Are there any data on that? I have not seen anything other than behavior of some orthos being problematic.


05 Nov 20 - 10:20 AM (#4078333)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

It seems like Trump is operating under the assumption that Covid 19 is only fatal to Blacks Jews and Mexicans. IF that were true he would make infection mandatory. :^I


05 Nov 20 - 06:40 PM (#4078387)
Subject: BS: Bloody UK lockdown Mk 2
From: Steve Shaw

This is not intended to be a Brit politics thread, more a cri de coeur. We've been locked down again, for four weeks this time, nationwide. People round here can't believe it. We have the lowest infection rate in the country but we can't meet our families and friends. The supermarkets can sell whatever they like but almost all other shops are forced to close, restaurants and leisure facilities have all shut down and the police are threatening to interrogate us as to what we're doing if they see us out and about. Yet schools and universities can carry on as normal, in spite of the fact that infection rates are ballooning in secondary schools and that university students have descended from all corners of the country/globe and spiked infection rates in many university towns. I went into town today and it felt nothing like the first lockdown. Plenty of traffic, supermarkets crowded, streets full of people, and fireworks parties all round this evening. I'm thinking that huge numbers of people are ignoring this latest lockdown and I don't blame them. The approach I strongly feel that should have been adopted from the getgo was one in which the government made a massive effort to educate the public and get everyone onside by persuasion, not edict. I mean, how have we reached a position whereby a supposed democratic government can tell people that they can't leave their house and can't mix with their own close families?


06 Nov 20 - 05:08 AM (#4078441)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Doug Chadwick

.... from the getgo ....

{{{{shudder}}}}


06 Nov 20 - 05:22 AM (#4078442)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Bonzo3legs

But this is just what labour were demanding is it not! For those retired and not working - they can carry on sloathing at home and whinge, and for those retired and still working as normal - albeit from home like myself, we contribute!!!


06 Nov 20 - 05:42 AM (#4078445)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Steve Shaw

I assume that you are not shuddering because I missed the hyphen out of get-go. I quite like get-go and I shall be using it a lot going forward.


06 Nov 20 - 05:48 AM (#4078446)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Raggytash

Much as I do not like the lockdown, the alternative is a continuation of high mortality.

I have witnessed numerous acts of sheer stupidity including some from my mates who I had thought were intelligent people.

For instance in my local bar where the owners had tried very hard to follow the guidelines one person from my table went to speak to people at another table. He did wear a mask but he wore MINE. When he returned to our table he could not understand why I was a bit miffed.


06 Nov 20 - 06:18 AM (#4078452)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Steve Shaw

The lockdown isn't going to prevent deaths. It's designed to spread them out so that the NHS (near-wrecked by ten years of Toryism) won't be overwhelmed. And don't forget the side effects of lockdowns. The BBC reports that there has bee been a 20% rise in the numbers of babies harmed, even killed, since March. Who knows how many suicides, mental health breakdowns and incidents of domestic violence could be attributed to job losses, isolation and financial struggles. Until last week I hadn't been in a pub, cafe or restaurant since March. On Tuesday last week we went for lunch at a farm shop cafe near us. I was flabbergasted by the total lack of regard for social distancing. The tables were so close together that you could be sitting back to back less than two feet away from someone at the next table, and all the tables were full. Customers were supposed to wear masks unless seated, a rule ignored by almost everyone. It'll be a long time before the hospitality industry gets my custom again. In my view this latest lockdown is a waste of time and a very damaging one at that. But Mrs Steve and I, despite our opposition, are sticklers for the rules.


06 Nov 20 - 06:23 AM (#4078454)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Raggytash

If it retards the spread of the virus it will in turn reduce the number of people who contract it. This in turn will reduce the number of people who will die.

Much as I criticise the government, the actions of the population must be taken into account and to a degree they are also responsible for the high mortality rate.


06 Nov 20 - 07:07 AM (#4078460)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Bonzo3legs

I would say to a very high degree. I have just returned from our pharmacy where a man was darting about looking at goods on the shelves and not wearing a mask. As he left I shouted out "he must have a no need to wear a mask ticket, everyone else waiting for medication - all wearing masks, agreed.


06 Nov 20 - 07:25 AM (#4078462)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: DMcG

My guess is that people whose areas have had very low number of cases, like Cornwall, are likely to resent the lockdown and will be quite prone to people ignoring the rules.

My anecdotal experience is different.

Because my wife has had a knee replacement 8 weeks ago, we have tried to go out most days for walks to give it exercise. This has tended to be the nearby shore, or National Trust properties, or various gardens, bird sanctuaries and similar. We have found that where we go, people are very good at wearing masks, everyone steps off the paths and walks next to it to get metres of separation, tables are many metres apart and so on. It is very similar in the local shops: people are making an effort to keep apart, to walk the aisle according to one way systems, not to pass each other, to distance at tills and so on.

We did go in for lunch in one pub before the operation where they were only paying lip service to the rules: they had a one way system but no one followed it, the wait staff had no masks, and so on. But that has really been it.

We were a tier 1 before the new lockdown, so we were not especially at risk.


06 Nov 20 - 07:26 AM (#4078463)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Vincent Jones

Yes, lockdown is a bugger. Yes, a more regional approach would be a better approach. Yes, schools and colleges remaining open is a ridiculous exception. Yes, years of Tory government, not to mention New Labour, have done much to knacker the NHS. And yes, the consequences of lockdown other than covid has caused an increase in child abuse, violence against women and suicide.

I'm optimistic enough to think that most people try to do the right thing, and will take note of advice. To keep the R number down, however, requires nearly everyone to do the right thing, but there are enough idiots, conspiracy theorists and others behaving like the bloke in Bonzo's pharmacy to keep R well above 1. I haven't the optimism to think that a government that can't find its arse with both hands could produce a national education programme to nudge such people into responsible behaviour.

Death by covid is lonely, painful, distressing and violent. This lockdown will prevent some of these deaths.

Had the NHS the capacity, and had the government been responsible in the way it built up resources to deal with the pandemic, rather than handing lucrative contracts to their mates, then perhaps the lockdown would not be necessary.

By all means moan about what a bastard it all is, though.


06 Nov 20 - 11:42 AM (#4078490)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Bonzo3legs

Apparently, during lockdown one is supposed to develop mental health problems and become depressed. I am not sure how to achieve that. All ideas welcome.


06 Nov 20 - 12:28 PM (#4078494)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Backwoodsman

If anything, my mental health improved and my stress-levels lowered during the first lockdown. Mrs Backwoodsperson commented on a number of occasions how much more relaxed I’d become and how my mood seemed to have lightened generally.

But then, I spent my time keeping busy with things I enjoy doing, rather than moping about feeling sorry for myself.


06 Nov 20 - 12:40 PM (#4078496)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Bonzo3legs

Exactly, for me there aren't enough hours in the day!!


06 Nov 20 - 02:18 PM (#4078505)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Raggytash

Fancy doing any painting at my place Bonzo. I've just had a room replastered and it's going to take at least three coats and to be done before Thursday when the carpet fitters are coming!!


06 Nov 20 - 02:21 PM (#4078507)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: The Sandman

bonzo if you want to be depressed listen to little pimp the mumble rapper


06 Nov 20 - 02:47 PM (#4078513)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Bonzo3legs

No thankyou!!! Just watched Blair Dunlop's brilliant webcast with his band - only £8 to watch.


06 Nov 20 - 04:07 PM (#4078522)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: punkfolkrocker

I like lockdown..

But then, I was a happily reclusive hermit
long before lockdown
was a twinkle in boris's ballsack...


06 Nov 20 - 04:52 PM (#4078524)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: Backwoodsman

”...a twinkle in Boris’s ballsack...”

{{Shudder}} :-)


06 Nov 20 - 05:07 PM (#4078527)
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody lockdown Mk 2
From: punkfolkrocker

BWM - .. well.. he is just frantically tossing off messy policies
all over us and himself...


06 Nov 20 - 07:11 PM (#4078539)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

At this point Trump has so enraged his base against anything to do with sound science or careful personal behavior that such an order would be almost impossible to enforce. But the medical people being interviewed now are using the term "exponential" when describing the rapid spread of COVID-19 in the US population. We could use a good shutdown; stop complaining and see if it works. And maybe saves your lives.


06 Nov 20 - 08:22 PM (#4078543)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Well thanks for burying my thread, whoever you are, and then polluting it with Trumpism. I suppose I'll have to put up with it, won't I.

Here's a nice piece of supposed lockdown for you. I have a friend who is in what was a Tier 3 area, one of the most infected areas of the country. Their next-door neighbours both have coronavirus. They work in a small school in which nine children are from six families with current coronavirus infections. The school remains cheerfully open. Well what do you think. I know what I think. I think that this lockdown is a bloody waste of time, and a lot worse than just that.


06 Nov 20 - 09:34 PM (#4078548)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

What do I think...???

"Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker - PM
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 02:21 PM

I am still inclined to suspect extremist ideological factions of the tories
are determined to exploit covid as an opportunist covert lethal weapon,
targeting the teaching profession...
"


06 Nov 20 - 11:48 PM (#4078553)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

It does seem odd that schools would stay open. Even here schools are intermittently occupied, mostly students do remote learning from home.


07 Nov 20 - 01:21 AM (#4078556)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Neo fascists have deep entrenched fanatical hatred for teachers,
who they consider to be the most evil marxist feminist satanist enemy.

The far right want them all replaced with loyal nationalists,
preferably ex military or football hooligans
with some basic literacy and counting skills
acquired from the common sense university of life...

But definitely none of that dangerous traitorous book-learning intellectualism nonsense..

Loyalist local citizens would immediately target my wife
with coughing infants,
the instant suspicions are planted on social media
of her indoctrinating and recruiting innocent British 5 year olds
for socialist antifa terror squads..

'Play' digging in the school sand pit is obvious training for planting IEDs..

Spying on school children through binoculars is perfectly
excusable if monitoring for suspected marxist training activities..

So in this climate of ideological panic,
Covid is a godsend for exterminating teachers and University lecturers
without the awkward publicity and expense of concentration camps..

. and getting her to spread it at home to me,
would be a free extra points bonus kill for the far right.


08 Nov 20 - 09:42 AM (#4078740)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Weird conjunction of threads. This was supposed to be for new findings about covid, but hey. Now it is just a bitch about covid thread.

So if there is actual new news about covid, it still goes here, but you'll have to wade through a bunch of other stuff to find it.

But hey, life is good right now, from where I sit on this side of the pond. Go, Pennsylvania.


08 Nov 20 - 09:57 AM (#4078742)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

The closure of many businesses as England shuts down for a month was news, but yes, there does appear to be grousing included with that story.


08 Nov 20 - 10:47 AM (#4078757)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

A question: Is there a new strain of virus that is more infectious or have people become too cavalier? Or isn't the second wave of a pandemic always more dramatic?


09 Nov 20 - 11:52 AM (#4078914)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: leeneia

Mrzzy wants some news. Here's some.

Science Focus reports that hospitals are getting better at treating patients who are seriously ill. In ICU's the death rate used to be 25%, now it's 7%.

In some patients, Covid infection leads the immune system to go berserk (my term), attacking the body. This may explain deaths in young, fit people, males more than females. This problem may have a genetic basis.


09 Nov 20 - 01:39 PM (#4078932)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

There's talk now of a vaccine possibly becoming available in a few weeks. And there's much discussion on whether people would be prepared to have it or not.
I personally wouldn't, unless it's been thoroughly tested and not just bunged out hastily. Sticking a needle into ones arm and injecting something into ones body which may/may not be dodgy doesn't appeal to me all that much.
Anyone else got any thoughts on this?


09 Nov 20 - 02:34 PM (#4078936)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Claims of 90% protection still leave one in 10 of the population vulnerable..

.. and apparently it's pot luck who get's which pre-ordered vaccine.

Then there's virus mutations to consider..!!!???

[But hopefully, a future ban on mink farms...???]

Even as a lefty, I've always had serious respect for preppers...


09 Nov 20 - 04:13 PM (#4078945)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Imma wait at least 5 years before trusting any vaccine.


09 Nov 20 - 04:33 PM (#4078947)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

Vaccines can have dire reactions. I'll never forget my first yellow fever one, many years ago. The night after I was given it, I woke up at about 2am on my back on the kitchen floor with five cats staring at me. Angels and weird creatures were flying overhead and I lay in a puddle of sweat. I think it may have been a 'mild' version of the disease itself. Luckily, the rules for yellow fever vaccination now say that one jab lasts for life (if it doesn't kill you first!).
I don't want Covid obviously, but I'm shielding anyway, and there aren't many cases in our area. Husband says he'll have the vaccine 'like a shot' (pun intended) because he works in a high school.


09 Nov 20 - 06:11 PM (#4078960)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

43000 people have had the vaccine/placebo. There have been no safety concerns. Stop whingeing, vaccine-haters: let's roll it out now and save lives. Actually, vaccine-haters, do carry on. Your refusal puts me higher up the queue. I can suck that up.


09 Nov 20 - 08:39 PM (#4078975)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Hater..???

..I'm looking for health angles to jump to the head of the queue,
while the tories are continue forcing my mrs to work at school
throughout the pandemic...


10 Nov 20 - 06:43 AM (#4079015)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 02:34

Claims of 90% protection still leave one in 10 of the population vulnerable..


90% protection is good. Better than most estimates for the Flu vaccines made available each year.
Also, if you vaccinate 90% of the population with a 90% effective vaccine you get 81% resistant. This is higher than the calculated number needed for 'herd immunity'.

If someone is offering a tested vaccine against Covid I'd take it 'like a shot!'


10 Nov 20 - 07:48 AM (#4079020)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

You have to take it in TWO shots. This kind of rna scrambling vaccine production has never been used on a population before.

The unknowns: are the effectiveness in people prone to severe infections vs. those that would have mild symptoms. Flu vaccines tend to not help severe flu victims.

We don't know about lifetime immunity but are treating it like the temporary flu shot.

Naturally we don't know of long term complications but odds are its way better to take it.

I had a reaction to a flu shot of muscle paralysis but the symptoms were brief - only 5 minutes. (petite barr syndome)


10 Nov 20 - 07:53 AM (#4079021)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The first average people to have the new vaccine are looking at next summer. (3 seasons away)


10 Nov 20 - 08:16 AM (#4079025)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

The first average people to have the new vaccine are looking at next summer. (3 seasons away)

Maybe, maybe not: Coronavirus: Matt Hancock asks NHS to be ready to deploy COVID-19 vaccine from start of December


10 Nov 20 - 08:18 AM (#4079026)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

In other new news about the virus, about 1 in 5 folks who recover are then diagnosed with mental illnesses they didn't have before. Possible other brain damage, like not getting your sense of taste back.


10 Nov 20 - 08:38 AM (#4079030)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

So, are the tories going to cancel pre-orders for vaccines that prove to be less effective;
or are they committed to still buy them,
wasting even more public money than the PPE debacle...???

..and if they do go ahead buying and using those more useless vaccines,
who'll be the poor buggers who get those crap jabs...???


10 Nov 20 - 09:25 AM (#4079038)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Pfizer got NO money from the US government and is not connected to Trump in any way, I see what Natt Hancock is saying by couching his optiimismism in words like "it is one step among many".
My key word is "average".
It will be another month before Pfizer has more info beyond a simple press release of some data.
If and when a vaccine is cleared to go, the Government will then be involved in manufacture and distribution. (operation Warp Speed)


11 Nov 20 - 07:54 AM (#4079163)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

Awopbopalopbopabimbamboom


11 Nov 20 - 08:21 AM (#4079169)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

In the US the covid death equivalent is 4 jumbo jets crashing per day killing everyone on board. People prefer to ignore the problem when permitted to do so by leaders. The mobile morgue refridgerated semi truck trailers can only hold 144 corpses each. One day grocery stores will use these same trailers for food.

We are at an all time high exponential infection rate. In some areas 1 in 30 are infected. Other areas vary to 1 in 100. The near vertical rise in infection will continue even if we slam on the brakes as firmly as possible but it will slow only slightly like the largest heaviest ship in the world at full speed.

Looking ahead there is hell to come for at least a year. But it will get better. Some will throw caution to the wind by impatience or accident. You can only improve your odds of staying infection free by 70%, thats only a C- .


11 Nov 20 - 09:50 AM (#4079180)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Ok new news again: which do you think is riskiest/riskier/less risky:

1) take a bus with open windows for an hour [I thought this Riskier]
2) sit and eat in an enclosed space at a table for 10, indoors, no windows, 15-30 mn [I thought this Riskiest]
3) participate in a buddhist retreat for a full day, outdoors, with hundreds of others? [I had thought this least risky]

Well there are data! From mid-January in China where the same group from Wuhan did all those things. Video here but in French. But great graphics, worth looking at.

Turned out the worst, and by far, was the bus. One person on one bus infected almost everybody else on that bus, except most of those sitting right at the open windows.

Being at a table, even indoors and unventilated for 15-30 mn, infected few if any, same for being outdoors with people.

Excellent within-group research.

Also, no masks. One mask on that one person could have prevented *all* the infections.


13 Nov 20 - 07:54 AM (#4079455)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

"In the US the covid death equivalent is 4 jumbo jets crashing every day killing everyone on board."

That was early in the week. Now the equivalent ia 6 jumbp jets crashing every single day.
The behavior of the impatient, the teenager, the maskless, the school kids and others are our weakest links to slowing the spread.
By January the death rate is on track to be 2,200 every day.
Since there are no ICU beds available in many states already, the covid dead outside of hospitals will probably not be counted.

I expect a vaccine to work as well as perfect behavior by our weakest links in slowing the infection rate.


13 Nov 20 - 08:14 AM (#4079457)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Still waiting for news reports of prominent covid denier anti-masker
fatalities from the virus..

Or are they actually the strongest fearless Übermensch
they boast to be...???


13 Nov 20 - 05:35 PM (#4079531)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Over 100 secret service members now have it thanks to Trump's campaigns.

But here is some new science on why some people get so sick while others don't.


13 Nov 20 - 06:03 PM (#4079532)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic

serious question: what makes one vaccine need to be stored at extreme cold temps but not another?


14 Nov 20 - 09:15 AM (#4079592)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

The ones that go in the deep freeze are faster to make but they don't have a step and expense of adding preservatives to them. The cold is the only way to preserve them. This was explained recently on an NPR news program.

HEALTH AND SCIENCE
California, Oregon and Washington issue Covid travel advisory urging 14-day quarantine


This is a joint program between the three states to try to lessen the infections between them.

    The governors of California, Oregon and Washington issued a joint coronavirus travel advisory on Friday urging people arriving to their states to self-quarantine for 14 days and asking residents to avoid all non-essential out-of-state trips.

    The Pacific Northwest states said essential travel includes people who are traveling for “work and study, critical infrastructure support, economic services and supply chains, health, immediate medical care and safety and security,” according to a statement.

    The Democratic governors also recommended that travelers limit their interactions with only people in their households.


14 Nov 20 - 09:31 AM (#4079595)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Your president seems intent on taking as many followers as he can
with him when he's finally driven out..

His anti-mask covid denying faithful are like one of those suicidal death cults
who drink fatal poison at their holy leaders bidding...


14 Nov 20 - 10:20 AM (#4079603)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Masks do apparently protect the wearer too. Good.

Multiple sources.


16 Nov 20 - 09:49 AM (#4079823)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: SPB-Cooperator

old news, but......

On 16 March, primary care magazine Pulse reported doctors were receiving out-of-date PPE that had had its 2016 use-by date covered with a sticker saying "2021".[211] In response, the government offered reassurance that this was safe.[212] Earlier in the month, in response to a survey of Pulse's readership, two of five GPs reported they still did not have PPE to protect them from coronavirus.[211] Some of these concerns were raised with Johnson during Prime Minister's Questions, to which the Prime Minister replied the UK had "stockpiles" of PPE.[213] The same day, the Doctors' Association UK (DAUK) reported NHS staff felt they were being put at risk due to lack of PPE.[214]


17 Nov 20 - 05:22 PM (#4080000)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Can you include those footnotes?

Fauci is doing a webinar here at UVA tomorrow. PM if you want the link. Noon mudcat time.


19 Nov 20 - 07:31 AM (#4080201)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

These are the good old days right now.

In 3 months we will see a massive effect of a near doubling of deaths and xponential growth in infection before the 'Biden' effect will take hold.

Nature has its lag time in the growing cold AFTER the shortest day of the year. It has a lag time in pandemics as well.

This is the time to redouble your own safety protocols, no matter how tired you are from it already.


19 Nov 20 - 12:24 PM (#4080249)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

To offer support to that statement, here is NPR looking at the state of unemployment insurance in the US.

12 Million To Lose Jobless Benefits The Day After Christmas Unless Congress Acts


22 Nov 20 - 08:06 AM (#4080573)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Without a vote on the budget the government is slated to shut down Dec. 11. We have been open on a flimsy continuing resolution as usual.

At the rate of ~200,000 new infections per day we are at a ~million new infections per week. (in the USA)
Some areas are using tent hospitals and mobile morgues.


28 Nov 20 - 07:52 AM (#4081192)
Subject: BS: The other pandemic
From: Donuel

NYT best seller on the pandemic

Government denial of the disease was tied to the sedition act and jailed publishers. They were allowed to print only positive messages like wear a mask. This may be why there is no literaure from those times.

Hemmoragic symptoms of bleeding from the eyes and mouth and a dark pallor made determining race unlikely. Psychosis was also a symptom.
Woodrow Wilson had those symptoms while in France and attending peace treaty talks.

Old people were vitually immune, kids under 5 had death rates equal to all causes of death over 20 years. People 18 to 45 had the next highest death rate.

People knew it was not the flu. The book uses the disease event records in many US cities and how Philly and San Fran fought back.


28 Nov 20 - 10:59 AM (#4081212)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

You can soon listen to the author on a pbs link. I listened to it live today.

Even my little county is now gearing up with mobile morgues.
The nation has gone from 13 million infections to an expected 100 million infections by inauguration day.


01 Dec 20 - 06:44 AM (#4081508)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The freedom of religionists, scofflaws, trumpists and brainwashed who don't wear masks should be encouraged to wear 'Faithmasks' for holiday services this year.    They would have a cross etc. on the mask.

I'll get me PPE


01 Dec 20 - 07:05 AM (#4081511)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

The people who are brainwashed are the people who feel safe in a mask. And I do wear a mask.


01 Dec 20 - 07:27 AM (#4081513)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

I never doubted that. I understand the hair splitting involved.
Masks themselves are not 90% effective but they do reduce an infectious viral load RISK by 90%. Thats often good enough to help.

Don't sweat the single virus particle.


01 Dec 20 - 09:23 AM (#4081522)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

You have no evidence for that assertion. And even if it were true, it would be confounded by the routine mass misuse of masks: off with it, on with it. Stash it under your chin. Reuse it 'til it almost stinks. Stuff it in your pocket. Fiddle with the front of it. Scratch your nose through it.


01 Dec 20 - 09:49 AM (#4081525)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Stop quibbling. There is a lot of evidence now that masks are saving lives. That they protect both the wearer and anyone nearby, especially if that anyone is also wearing a mask. Google it.

Dr. Gupta from the University of Washington last night on MSNBC reiterated, the best are the three layer cloth masks, two-layer will work fairly well also. And three layer surgical masks.


01 Dec 20 - 11:03 AM (#4081534)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Hey antimaskers, are you drinking and injecting enough disinfectant to ensure you survive the pandemic...???

Have you considered ingesting antifreeze to get you through the winter...?????

A poisonous substance a day, keeps marxist feminist Satanist health scientist approved anti American masks away...


01 Dec 20 - 12:00 PM (#4081540)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Injecting bleach into the mouth is a common step in a root canal procedure.

I don't know if its true, it just feels true: People with excruciating back pain are in general argumentative over stupid shit...

I wear a N-95 with a 2 or 3 layer mask outside to seal the edges.

I also have a heavy duty gold visor air tight helmet used for oil well fires. I haven't had the occaision to use it yet. Besides I don't have the insulated oxygen tank or rebreather but I have the fireproof pants and coat.


01 Dec 20 - 01:12 PM (#4081549)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I challenged Donuel's assertion by questioning his lack of evidence. You make your assertion, telling me to google it, by telling me to "stop quibbling." You do have form when it comes to your rather aggressive mask promotion. In fact, there is little evidence that masks outside hospital settings save many lives. There are plenty of googlable reports (try the BMJ and the Royal Society, the first two that I saw when I obediently googled it) that conclude that the negatives outweigh whatever positives there are (as ever, I tend to avoid what newspapers or popular science magazines say). Much of what you can read about this, on both sides of the argument, is no better than informed opinion, which is not evidence. You certainly can't present direct evidence, in terms of numbers, that masks are saving lives, as you assert. I can't present evidence to the contrary, either. However, it's patently obvious, just by observing people's behaviour, that poor compliance with the rules for how masks should be used is rife. Not only that, it's highly likely that mask wearing gives a false sense of security to many people. I've noticed (without actually looking for trouble) that quite a lot of mask-wearers ignore social distancing in shops and neglect to clean either their hands or supermarket trolley handles on their way in. It's likely that they are largely the same people who misuse their masks. Once again, I'm simply questioning the efficacy of mask wearing in the community. I'm not an anti-mask campaigner or a rebel and I cheerfully do what most people do, i.e., wear a mask where required. If I feel sceptical about other people's assertions, I put my hands on my hips and say, where's your evidence? I don't accuse them of quibbling. Cheers.


This post contains unsubstantiated opinion and untrue information about the safety involved in wearing face masks during the time of COVID-19.


01 Dec 20 - 01:33 PM (#4081552)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Steve - I can't say my scepticism is too different to yours..

I'll put up with the discomforts of wearing masks,
in the absence of any other better proven tangible self defense
against the potentially lethal mass morons in society..

Where we differ, is I'll keep doubtful negative opinions on masks quietly to myself.

When liberal/lefty smartarses like us air our doubts publicly,
all that does is further legitimise and enable
the selfishly undisciplined far right libertarian anti masker covidiots...

They love it when we sound like we agree with them...


01 Dec 20 - 01:47 PM (#4081553)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Well I doubt that too many of those are here, and, if they do put their heads above the parapet, we'll take them on. Incidentally, I don't think that expressing doubt in a measured way or asking for more evidence is being "negative ..."


01 Dec 20 - 02:11 PM (#4081555)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Depends how it's expressed..

Maybe I spend far too much time late at night
'researching' malignant crackpot far right, and dodgy misguided liberal,
youtube channels...???


01 Dec 20 - 04:02 PM (#4081571)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Be like me and watch Spooks repeats on Drama. I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now but I love it...


01 Dec 20 - 04:37 PM (#4081573)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

stilly river sage, can you provide us with the evidence please. i wear a mask but there is lots of conflicting stories about their success in stopping the spread of covid 19,perhaps some masks are more effective than others lets have the data


01 Dec 20 - 04:58 PM (#4081575)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

Dick, do you need help with a Google search? Try going to this magic website, and type in the words "proof that masks work" (you can copy and paste that). After that, you can pick the links of hits you want to read.

I hope this helps.

Oh - try going to the links to WHO (World Health Organization) of CDC (Centers for Disease Control) first. They're usually pretty informative.


01 Dec 20 - 05:05 PM (#4081577)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Think about it, Dick. You can justifiably claim that a mask will stop some droplets (though what then happens to the trapped viruses in those droplets is fully at the mercy of the mask owner). What you can't claim is that wearing masks saves lives or that not wearing masks kills people. Your opinion can lean one way or the other, but evidence cannot be available, and claims either way are specious. Now what time is Spooks on...


01 Dec 20 - 05:13 PM (#4081578)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Maybe a difference twixt you and me, Jeri. You google "proof that masks work." I googled "evidence for mask wearing." We can both find opinion (not proof) either way, and I admitted that. You seek confirmation bias...?


02 Dec 20 - 06:14 AM (#4081623)
Subject: RE: BSilly shit on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

No I don't.

I did assume the unspoken foundation of all Covid 19 threads was about helping people.
For example you can not get Covid 19 from vaccines. Yes your arm will ne sore and you may even get a short term fever but that is your immune system working.


02 Dec 20 - 07:27 AM (#4081631)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

No you don't what?


Controlling people's lives, throwing millions out of work, wrecking thousands of small businesses, telling folk they can't leave their homes, shutting down schools for months, telling them they can't see their families for many a long month, trapping and isolating old people in care homes*, threatening the mental health of millions... Yep, it's all about "helping" people, innit...

*Yep, I'm biased. Since early March and through to late October I saw my profoundly deaf mum just a handful of times through a perspex screen. Before that I used to go to her room in the home to sit with her four or five times a week, and I'd take her out for drives and shopping and cups of tea. At least I was allowed to be at her side in hospital as she died.

I don't want to be in a world that thinks it's fine to treat people like this.


02 Dec 20 - 07:57 AM (#4081634)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Man points vial of pandemic virus at Jack "Your inconveinence or your life".......Well?...
Jack finally says "I'm thinking".


02 Dec 20 - 08:33 AM (#4081639)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Yep, this pandemic is a bit inconvenient, innit..

Just to think.. we are all descendants
of the survivors of that century ago pesky flu bug...

How many, 100 years from now, will be able to say the same thing
about their great grandad and granma
being sensible or lucky enough to stay alive during covid...???


02 Dec 20 - 09:00 AM (#4081645)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

In another thread Donuel bemoans the misuse of the word incredible. I think you are both misusing the word inconvenient.


02 Dec 20 - 09:18 AM (#4081649)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Steve - we've all been buggered raw by this last year of pandemic.

I've not see my mum since February,
and have some really difficult decisions hanging over me,
to make about her with adult social services.

My own health has deteriorated due to being stubbornly reluctant to risk setting foot in my GP surgery.

The UK vaccine news just announced today may be a genuine positive game changer,
but naturally enough I distrust any 'good news' trumpeted from our tory govt..

However I'm not convinced a more honest and transparent Labour govt
would have performed much better during pandemic,
and not needed to make similarly drastic draconian decisions
for our own safety and longer term chances of survival...?????


02 Dec 20 - 09:40 AM (#4081652)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

While I am not claiming immunity from the syndrome called Covid fatigue
you guys are showing all the initial symptoms. Your blamegame won't kill anyone but letting down your guard will. When common sense is compromised mistakes are more easily made. Take care and stay safe all.


02 Dec 20 - 09:54 AM (#4081658)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

We have always lived by calculated risk anyway. I broke quarantine over tooth pain and my wife over a death in the family. To each their own.


02 Dec 20 - 09:59 AM (#4081659)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

"My own health has deteriorated due to being stubbornly reluctant to risk setting foot in my GP surgery."

I'm in exactly the same boat.

I'm not sure what a Labour government would have done different and I think it's pretty pointless to surmise. The dreadful clampdowns and long-term misery the country is enduring - along with a huge number of deaths, especially of the elderly - are squarely the fault of this Tory government. The lockdown was delayed, therefore needing to be more severe, the NHS was unready and under-resourced, they sent untested old people back into homes from hospitals in droves, the rollout of testing was scandalously bad, PPE provision was crap, billions have been wasted on a track-and-trace that is totally unfit for purpose, beaches and resorts were allowed to be swamped by tourists from all over the country, a useless tier system, unpoliced of course, led to another lockdown... Any bets on the vaccine rollout being efficient and fair?


02 Dec 20 - 10:15 AM (#4081662)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Steve - I want a vaccine asap, but...

.. by the time my demographic 60 - 65 gets called in for a jab,
I'm hoping it is truly safe and effective.

.. and not just 'safe enough' for boris to blow his own 'Britain first in the world' trumpet fanfare..

Pragmatic me can understand the tories trialing the over 80s as mass guinea pigs for pre xmas tory good cheer PR..,
but I'm concerned NHS and care home/social workers
are also being hurriedly used as lab rats for this first run of Pfizer/BioNTech Covid vaccine...???????


02 Dec 20 - 11:11 AM (#4081670)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Anybody taking vaccine for covid in the next, oh, 5 years *is* being a lab rat / guinea pig / experimental subject.

My dad used to warble If you have to take vaccine, take it orally / for you know the other way can most painful be...

I am looking forward to the data we will get from these experiments, though. No other way to test that I can think of. And with my lack of risk factors I got time before the jabs roll around to me, so thanks to all y'all willing to be guinea pigs for the likes of me.


02 Dec 20 - 11:24 AM (#4081671)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The shingles vaccine was surprisingly achey. Mrzzy you are not a lab rat to take covid vaccines, but you do risk contamination in manufacture. However in a perfect world you would be paid $50 grand to take it.


02 Dec 20 - 12:00 PM (#4081676)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Geez, Louise, some of you are being willfully stupid about masks.

Scientific Brief: Community Use of Cloth Masks to Control the Spread of SARS-CoV-2

Masks Save Lives

Facemasks: What the Data Say

Masks Save Lives.org


02 Dec 20 - 12:15 PM (#4081678)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

It is reported today that “Health Secretary Matt Hancock offered to get vaccinated live on television to help convince people the coronavirus jab is safe.”
Those who remember an earlier minister, John Gummer, being shown feeding a beef burger to his daughter to persuade people that eating beef would not give them bovine spongiform encephalopathy [“mad cow disease”], may be less easily convinced.
I am not aware that his daughter became ill as a result, but 177 British people not only caught the disease, but died from it,


02 Dec 20 - 01:52 PM (#4081690)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Sorry, Maggie, but only the first source you quote isn't either popular "science" or tendentious evangelism. The first one seems to hinge on viruses invariably being spread in airborne droplets. The actual size of a virus particle is hundreds of times smaller than the ones captured by the best particle-trapper cited in the article, and you are ignoring what I said about the aggravated spread of virus from improperly-handled used masks. And an infected person, out and about not knowing that they are infected, would pollute their mask within seconds of putting it on. Yes, masks stop some droplets. But then what? Whip it off, chuck it on the dashboard until you get to the next shop. Then put it back on, using your fingers on the fabric to bend the wire back round your nose. And not all virus will be in droplets, and droplets evaporate. I'm not campaigning to get rid of masks and I wear a mask according to the rules wherever I go. The really wilfully stupid thing is to look at data with the intention of getting it to prove what you already believe. As I said a couple of posts ago, any one of us can easily find sources that claim that masks are a good thing and others that claim that masks are a bad thing. There is plenty of scope on both sides for getting it wrong, which is why vacuous unqualified statements such as "masks save lives" get my goat somewhat. I know how hard it is to be totally neutral and even-handedly sceptical when looking at data, but that's the way I was trained. Ask Joe about me, him and God...


02 Dec 20 - 05:42 PM (#4081707)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

For god's sake tie your goat down and give it RFID chips and back up tracking devices. No one should get your goat with proper precautions.


02 Dec 20 - 11:33 PM (#4081724)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Given that it takes 5 years to test for vaccine side effects yes, everyone taking these vaccines is an experimental subject.

Covid claims the life of 94yo Valéry Giscard-d'Estaing, who was president of France during most of my adolescence, when I still lived in francophonie.


03 Dec 20 - 05:16 AM (#4081748)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

I had a bad side effect from a vaccine. It was short and I am alive.
Every calculated risk you take is an experimental journey in life, a temporary state, so believe as you wish and be a happy alive lab rat.


03 Dec 20 - 05:42 AM (#4081753)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Donny - you do obsess about throw-away details in other folks posts .. dontcha...

There'd be less 'lab rat' anxiety and suspicion about the first to be distributed vaccine,
if conniving amoral callous tory politicians were not at the forefront of bigging it up...


03 Dec 20 - 05:47 AM (#4081755)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

It would be a very good idea if persons here who wish to stand out from the crowd refrain from rattling on about the side effects of vaccines. Anything more than a sore arm or a whiffy headache for a day or two is extremely rare. About one person in a million (a stat I haven't made up) might respond adversely to egg albumen protein in a vaccine, and that's about it. Vaccines save millions of lives every year and can wipe out deadly diseases such as smallpox and polio altogether. Millions of children have had their lives protected and been steered away from permanent disabilities by the measles vaccine. If you want to feel special, this is one area in which you need to feel special all by yourself, in private.


03 Dec 20 - 07:41 AM (#4081763)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/03/pfizer-vaccine-covid-biontech-safe/

"What exactly is the Pfizer vaccine, who will get it, and is it safe?
Here is what you need to know about the coronavirus jab approved for use in the UK
"

yeah.. it's the telegraph.. but.. it seems ok enough for a starter...


03 Dec 20 - 08:04 AM (#4081764)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Can't read that unless I join their club...


03 Dec 20 - 08:27 AM (#4081768)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

Jeri has spoken, it must be true


03 Dec 20 - 08:30 AM (#4081769)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Er, that game ain't worth the candle, Dick...


03 Dec 20 - 09:29 AM (#4081771)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

I'm sure most people know this. The "side effects" of many vaccines aren't from the vaccine itself, but from your body's reaction to it. It's the immune system kicking into gear, recognizing and reacting to the bad stuff. It lasts for, at the most, 2 or 3 days. There's a chance you could be incubating the virus before you got the shot. With the flu shot, there's a chance you'll be infected with a strain of flu the shot doesn't immunize you against. I don't know that that has anything to do with the various Covid-19 immunizations, because I believe they're a different type of shot. It's still gonna be about your own immune system.

And I HAVE SPOKEN. (again)


03 Dec 20 - 10:10 AM (#4081775)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Them wot know try to predict which flu strain or strains might be prevalent in the coming flu season and include them in the vaccine. I have the flu jab every year and never have any reaction at all (I haven't caught flu since I started having it and I had caught flu a good number of times before that, and I'm not talking man-flu here). Mrs Steve can get a slightly sore patch on her arm for a day or three.

Currently in this nation of ours there's a lot of mad, unwarranted glee about the vaccine(s). The fact is that most people aren't getting it for months, not to speak of the fact that we have a regime that shows utter ineptitude at every stage of dealing with this virus. Let's hope it doesn't lead to complacency. On top of that, we're getting a load of vox pop nonsense on the telly involving ignorant scaremongering about the safely of the vaccine. We appear to be living in a tabloid world.

ALSO SPRACH ZARATHUSTRA...


03 Dec 20 - 11:11 AM (#4081779)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

This.

CDC director: Winter could be 'most difficult time in the public health history of this nation'

The U.S. could see another 200,000 coronavirus deaths in the next three months if people don't take mitigation measures such as mask-wearing and physical distancing seriously, according to the head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

"The reality is December and January and February are going to be rough times. I actually believe they're going to be the most difficult time in the public health history of this nation," largely because of the stress to the health system, CDC Director Robert Redfield said Wednesday during a U.S. Chamber of Commerce event.

The coronavirus is surging across the entire nation, and the health care system is being strained nearly to the breaking point in many states. At least 270,000 people have died, including nearly 2,600 on Tuesday, the highest single-day death toll of the pandemic so far.

Redfield said 90 percent of hospitals are in the red zone, with more than 90,000 people hospitalized.

"I do think unfortunately, before we see February, we could be close to 450,000 Americans dead from this virus," he said, but added the country is not defenseless.

"The truth is, mitigation works. The challenge with this virus is, it's not going to work if half of us do what we need to do. It's not even going to work, probably if three quarters of us do what we need to do. This virus really is going to require all of us to really be vigilant," Redfield said.

The CDC head said one thing that has disappointed him is the inconsistent messaging and politicization over mask wearing.

"The time for debating whether or not masks work or not is over. We clearly have scientific evidence," Redfield said, pointing specifically to a CDC study in Kansas that showed areas with mask mandates saw a decline in COVID-19 transmission, while those without a mandate saw a 100 percent increase.

Redfield said he thinks one of the most "painful" lessons from the pandemic so far is to make sure there's "harmony" among messaging.

"When you really want to get everybody on board, you've got to have clear, unified reinforced messaging. And I think the fact that we were still arguing in the summer about whether or not masks work was a problem," he said.

Redfield did not address the fact that much of the inconsistent messaging and politicization has followed a lack of central leadership. There was no national testing strategy, and no national policy on masks or other public health measures, only recommendations.

States have been left to figure it out for themselves, resulting in a patchwork of differing responses across the country. At the same time, much of the politicization has come from President Trump and others in the administration, who have prioritized the economy while downplaying the pandemic and the benefit of public health measures from the start.

Trump repeatedly promised a vaccine would be ready before the Nov. 3 election, despite what public health officials said. At one point in the fall, Trump phoned Redfield directly to contradict the director's congressional testimony on vaccine distribution and the efficacy of masks.

Redfield drew scrutiny in March when he showered Trump with praise during a visit to the CDC headquarters, and the president inaccurately proclaimed any American who wanted a COVID-19 test could get one.

Then in April, Trump insisted Redfield dispute his comments to The Washington Post that the winter would be especially challenging because of the combination of flu season and COVID-19. The CDC director acknowledged he had been accurately quoted.

Guidance on who to test for COVID-19 was changed to recommend against the testing of people who had been exposed but were asymptomatic, and top communications officials in the Department of Health and Human Services came under fire for trying to control the content and timing of the CDC’s weekly scientific reports on the pandemic.


There are several helpful links to other parts of this story if you follow the link at the top.


03 Dec 20 - 11:55 AM (#4081786)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

That Telegraph link opened on my PC,
and I definitely aint signed up with 'em..

Yesterday I had to walk to town centre and back
for my twice monthly potential suicide mission
leaving my safe-house bunker to the post office..

This time hardly anyone was wearing masks,
and young men were defiantly maskless inside the post office.
Despite notices stating illegal to not wear a mask on premises...


03 Dec 20 - 12:06 PM (#4081787)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

A local poll showed that in Wash. DC 72% do not want the Covid 19 vaccine shots.

Chocolate city, as its called, is a mostly black population so I suspect a 'Tuskeegee effect' is the fear most blacks have in their mind. Unvaccinated blacks may produce a 'Magic Johnson effect' and cause some white people to be even more wary of blacks.

Obama will be vaccinated on TV. Same with Biden and Trump wants credit for the whole thing.

It is unfortunate that paranoia may rule the day here and abroad that can only inssure more infection and death for a longer time.

I will prefer innoculation to infection.


03 Dec 20 - 01:40 PM (#4081797)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

I'll get the vaccine when I can. I think the worst thing it can do is not work.
I wonder if, in the USA, at least, if we'd been better at wearing masks and social distancing, we could have greatly reduce the number of people infected. We have a federal government that doesn't want to do the job, and a number of folks who won't wear a mask, and the bottom line is we have a society full of people who don't give a shit about others.


03 Dec 20 - 02:54 PM (#4081803)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

J e r i
You know full well we had a President who didn't give a shit about people and even encouraged people to not wear a mask, had no national response and prferred to push the issue onto all the govenors to scavenge against each other.

Thats why we are #1 with 3,000 deaths a day this week.


03 Dec 20 - 03:17 PM (#4081805)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Thanks to the modern marvel of the internet,
too many fukwit Brits have been convinced trump
is also their glorious crusading leader...


03 Dec 20 - 04:20 PM (#4081810)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

All other vaccines were tested for years, and nasty side-effects removed, before said vaccine ever got to market. *That* is where the guineapigging is. Imma wait 3-5 years, if I can. Mind you I am not an essential worker, so I can afford to wait.

And isn't every symptom a body reaction to something, and not that thing itself?


03 Dec 20 - 05:08 PM (#4081819)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

You are scaremongering. The urgency of the situation has galvanised research workers and the approval system, and corners have not been cut. The science has been utterly amazing. If we waited for your suggested five years, millions more people may die. There's far too much of your kind of bollix being propagated and it's very worrying that it's spreading like wildfire from social media on to community forums like this one. Your choice: don't have the vaccine and let the rest of us move up the queue. Fine by me.


03 Dec 20 - 06:07 PM (#4081822)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

The problem is when people are afraid of the vaccine because they think may have bizarre side effects. Vaccines stimulate the immune system. If you're afraid they might make you hallucinate, grow a second head, OR CAUSE AUTISM, it's not just ignorant, but destructive.

The worst thing I believe that can happen is it won't be effective. Other things are soreness at the injection site, maybe more of your arm, flu-like symptoms (the immune system response), and... that's pretty much it.

So if you're afraid to get the shot, don't get the shot. Just keep wearing a mask and keep avoiding crowds, or being physically close to people you don't know well, an keep doing that until the virus isn't circulating very much. And don't try to frighten people who don't have an issue with the vaccine. At worst, it could kill people. (Nobody is probably paying attention, anyway. Strange people on a strange little music forum.)


03 Dec 20 - 06:22 PM (#4081827)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I completely agree with all that, Jeri. The only thing is that the scaremongering about vaccine safety is rife on social media, and the companies are slow when it comes to removing it. I read a piece somewhere today that the scaremongering is spreading to community forums like this one. Two people here have already bigged up their scares about vaccine safety. It's unfounded, it's irresponsible and it's not on. Even on this strange little music forum. If you're scared of the vaccine, good for you. But those fears are not founded on any known science, so (to be less diplomatic than you), these guys need to shut up and keep their irrational fears strictly to themselves.


03 Dec 20 - 06:24 PM (#4081828)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

On the one hand I never trust UK tory politicians,
so the rush to be world beating first with vaccine approval
is tainted by my attitude on that..

On the other, I suspect USA might take too long to approve vaccines,
because of fears of that American enthusiasm
for mass class law suits...???


03 Dec 20 - 08:03 PM (#4081838)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

The vaccine approval process in the US is not the same as in the UK. In the US, raw data is required, whereas in the UK reports from the vaccine developers are accepted. The difference is a few days. Dr Fauci, who had initially dissed the UK approach as too fast, has now recanted and accepted that our approach is sufficiently rigorous. Whilst I would always accept that the Tories seek hubris as their goal, I think that the rapid progress in approving the vaccine is wholly to the credit of the scientists in this country, not the bloody Tories. They do like to bathe in reflected glory....


03 Dec 20 - 09:15 PM (#4081840)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Trump called the head of the FDA to the White House this week apparently to harangue them about approval of vaccines. I presume the FDA head will push back. It needs to be done in an orderly fashion, and this won't be one of the usual FDA fuckups, when the rules have been so diluted on other things they do that what they do is meaningless. It often has to do with dollars being cut to agencies like this so they can't do what they're supposed to.


03 Dec 20 - 10:41 PM (#4081846)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

I am not telling anybody else to wait. I am personally not comfortable taking an as-yet-un-fully-tested vaccine. I am not afraid I will become autistic or grow a second head. I would just prefer to wait for data on what the effects *are* -or aren't.

This from an Embassy brat in the 3rd world in the 60's, regularly punctured, I was, and glad of it.


03 Dec 20 - 11:28 PM (#4081850)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

I'm nearly 62..

Over the last half century no men in my close family
have yet survived long enough to get to 70.

So knowing our luck, no matter how hard I try to stay alive,
I'm fatalistically resigned to reality
that any other cause of death is out to get me
well before a covid vaccine is proven conclusively safe..

Therefore, considering the prevailing most likely threat of immediate premature fatality..
.. it kinda inclines me to risk a jab asap...


04 Dec 20 - 12:32 AM (#4081856)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

An inside look into the effective Covid vaccines;
Neither vaccine contain dead corona virus or 'living' covid virus like in the old vaccine making methods.

A new method of reproduction of the RNA in one segment of the virus that comprise only the little spikes on the virus body are being used.

This has been a new technique that has been researched for some time to make one vaccine against all flu varients by using only part of the tail or head of the flu virus. There are so many different types of flu
that progress has been slow, but here in town Dr. Fauci has soldiered on to solve the universal flu vaccine puzzle at NIH down the street.

Perhaps one day the universal flu vaccine will owe a debt to the success in the covid vaccine but the general new technique started here.


04 Dec 20 - 06:00 AM (#4081871)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

The only "risk" attached to approved vaccines is that they won't work as well as predicted. Just think: half the people in the trials received a fake "vaccine" that was totally ineffective. The streets are not strewn with the corpses of either of the two cohorts. if you're offered the vaccine the responsible thing is to take it. You may just be contributing to herd immunity. Don't take it, maybe catch the virus and spread it around a bit? You think that's a respectable stance? Down to you, of course. Free country.


04 Dec 20 - 06:26 AM (#4081874)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Perhaps you heard of the first ever 'new messenger RNA vaccine'.
Now you know the rest of the story.
As for the complainers, they couldn't stop if they tried.
In the meantime we can try to commiserate with them and calm some fears.


04 Dec 20 - 09:45 AM (#4081897)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

There are lots of people round here, especially among the more elderly, who are saying that they will refuse the vaccine. Well I've decided that I'm not letting that pass. Anyone who sez that to me is in for a bollocking. I've been bollocked here for casting doubts on the efficacy of mask-wearing even though I wear masks wherever I'm supposed to. If I'm wrong about masks, which I may well be, at least I'm not behaving irresponsibly. In my book vaccine-refusers would be much worse.


04 Dec 20 - 11:41 AM (#4081917)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

Steve, did you look at the links Stilly River Sage posted? here.


04 Dec 20 - 11:59 AM (#4081919)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I did, and I responded at 01.52 pm yesterday. I doubt whether you'll agree with any of it, but hey ho. As I keep saying, I have my opinions and I'm neither a mask rebel nor an anti-mask campaigner. Just a doubter. As it happens, I've just come in from wearing the damn thing for hours this afternoon, just like everyone else. As I think there's a chance that masks may in many circumstances do more harm than good, I think it's fine to voice those doubts. With the approved vaccines so far, on the other hand, the science firmly supports both their efficacy and their safety. Many vaccine doubters are campaigning against vaccines and many are loudly grandstanding their refusal to have it. Now that's what I CALL irresponsible.


04 Dec 20 - 12:03 PM (#4081920)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Sorry, it was the day before yesterday. Tempus fugits faster than I thought...


04 Dec 20 - 12:19 PM (#4081922)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Remember - vaccines are useless if they are not used to vaccinate, and it's all we've got, so all the doubters should stop pretending to be doctors!!


04 Dec 20 - 01:16 PM (#4081925)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Bonzo your level headed common sense approach adds no controversy or angnst to the global pandemic discussion. ?:*/


04 Dec 20 - 01:48 PM (#4081935)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Not bad from someone who hails from the Socialist Republic of Croydon... :-)


04 Dec 20 - 02:23 PM (#4081940)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

I told you all bonz seems to be gradually mellowing
and going slightly more centre lefty...

That'll annoy him when he realises...


04 Dec 20 - 03:23 PM (#4081943)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Not in the least, I am enjoying our upgrade to superfast BT Halo 3!!


05 Dec 20 - 12:32 PM (#4082023)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Just ran across this metaphor. Swiss cheese model of pandemic transmission: sure, the Mask slice has holes, but combined with handwashing and social distancing and all the other slices with their holes, you end up with no holes going all the way through. And don't let the Misinformation Mouse nibble any one layer away: sure masks aren't a 100% effective barrier but so what? They are only one slice of our model. Anyway:

Blicky.


05 Dec 20 - 12:46 PM (#4082025)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

What "misinformation"?


05 Dec 20 - 12:55 PM (#4082028)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Super-gluing lips, nostrils, and eye lids is an option
for improving the effective level of mask protection..

Top charlatan Scientist have yet to agree on the benefits of gluing shut ear holes,
and the remaining bodily entrances..


05 Dec 20 - 01:58 PM (#4082032)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Steve Shaw, read the article. Well- explained there.


05 Dec 20 - 02:16 PM (#4082035)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Since catching up on this thread today,
I've been walking around with cheese stuffed up my nose.

It's a 110% effective miracle protection against covid..

I can prove this because I can still smell cheese...!!!


05 Dec 20 - 03:19 PM (#4082041)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I did read the thing end to end, and I found it rather shallow and unnecessary. We don't need to be patronised by a facile metaphor into realising that multiple strategies are needed from all of us to fight the virus. Just give us the unadorned facts. His clever yarn called for far more mental processing than hard facts ever would. And he seemed to be implying that measured naysaying (Steve's take on masks???) could be misinformation. As one of my favourite lecturers used to say if we got a bit flowery in our essays, what we don't need is empty cleverness. Great message, misfire delivery. That's all.


05 Dec 20 - 03:35 PM (#4082045)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Nicely put, dude.


05 Dec 20 - 03:39 PM (#4082047)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Steve - which smelly cheese do you recommend to work best
as anti covid nasal plugs...???


05 Dec 20 - 04:23 PM (#4082058)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

You're asking the right man. I am a massive cheese aficionado as it happens. But which cheese? Well now. A firm Westcountry farmhouse cheddar would both be not smelly enough and would be a lamentable waste of cheese. I once bought a disgustingly overripe Brie at the pannier market in Barnstaple (bloody delicious). It ticked the stinky box...but it was very soft, too snot-like... I'm not a Stilton man, pongy though it is, and it can be a bit crumbly, which wouldn't fit the bill ("fit the bill"...cheese up nose...see what I did there?) So, for good stink, wide availability and good nostril-friendly texture, I'm going for...

Saint Agur!


05 Dec 20 - 05:14 PM (#4082067)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

I don't even like eating Saint Agur, never mind plugging my nose with it. (And as far as the adverts go, trying to tell the English how to pronounce it, well the do nasty things with my synaesthesia.)

How about a nice strong Gorgonzola?


05 Dec 20 - 05:52 PM (#4082071)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Bound to be tory ministers with connections in the dairy industry,
who will be contracting billions of £££s of public money
to produce sub standard PPE cheese plugs...


05 Dec 20 - 07:44 PM (#4082082)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Any man who hates Saint Agur is tired of life...

A Gorgonzola piccante would indeed fit the bill. Use a small amount then email me for a killer pasta sauce recipe with chicken breast, double cream and the rest of the pack...


06 Dec 20 - 08:27 AM (#4082127)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

Can I use chicken thighs instead of chicken breast?
Chicken breasts don't taste of much, really.

And why don't you just post the recipe, here or in the 'Recipes - what are we eating?' thread, instead of wanting an email, then everyone can enjoy it?


06 Dec 20 - 08:30 AM (#4082129)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I might have already done it in the recipes thread but I'll check. Warning: it's a real rib-sticker... Thigh meat great, by the way.


06 Dec 20 - 10:12 AM (#4082139)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The price of tea in China is going up.


06 Dec 20 - 10:16 AM (#4082140)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

It seems that shaming politicians for breaking their own rules is a futile effort. Every day or two I read about someone who decamped for some far away luxury location. I suspect the California politicians who were scolded a few days ago were at the same meeting as these Texas legislators, a week-long 50-people meeting in a Maui luxury hotel. "But ethics watchdogs have long criticized the conference, calling it a junket that hands lobbyists a captive audience of state lawmakers." The industry representatives and corporate sponsors paid $10,000 each to attend. I can't manage to post a link to the ePaper version of this story and it isn't in the html side of things yet.


07 Dec 20 - 06:13 AM (#4082222)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

State data shows my particuler neighborhood is a hot zone.
Latins here are not mask compliant.


07 Dec 20 - 10:16 PM (#4082354)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic

I have read that Catherine the Great got a cowpox / smallpox vaccination in the early 1800s. Apparently it was not done in public and the vaccinating doctor was prepared to flee if things did not go well.

Things went well.

On tonight's news I heard that Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip may be 'first adopters' with the new vaccine. Maybe there will be a public presentation. If only Lucy Worsley can make it!

Maybe Rudy Giuliani can recover some of his lost sparkle with a similar presentation from his hospital room.


08 Dec 20 - 12:42 AM (#4082365)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Trouble is.. in this bonkers internet conspiracy era..

.. even if high profile folks do big PR for vaccines
by getting media event jabs,
conspiracists will immediately insist there's no proof
the injection was anything more than vitamins or any other harmless placebo...


08 Dec 20 - 06:17 AM (#4082395)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

I can't see it at present, but there was (maybe not in this thread) a question about whether the virus could by promulgated by farting.
I saw a post on Facebook today which seems to answer this: Facebook


08 Dec 20 - 06:29 AM (#4082397)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

Telegraph today (page 9)
English pubs in Tier 2 with live music evenings have started making them all-ticket events.
In Tier 2 areas, live music venues are allowed to operate at 50% capacity and serve alcohol to ticket holders at the bar, without them having to order a main meal as well."


08 Dec 20 - 07:28 AM (#4082400)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

"... even if high profile folks do big PR for vaccines ..."

I assume "high profile folks" means people who are successful at sports, or who appear on television programmes with high viewing figures.

If so, the chances of my recognising them (or even having heard of them), let alone being persuaded to follow their examples, are vanishingly small.


08 Dec 20 - 07:51 AM (#4082403)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

..apparently liz and phil are being lined up for a PR jab job...???


08 Dec 20 - 10:34 AM (#4082441)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic

The English are effin' awesome.


NPR reports the first two jabs went down this morning in England:
DECEMBER 8, 2020.

First was a 91 year old pensioner.

Second was a guy named William Shakespeare.

Already been dubbed: "TAMING OF THE FLU"

God save the queen!


08 Dec 20 - 10:58 AM (#4082447)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic

On the local news I heard there might be as many as tens of thousands of vaccine doses headed to Alaska that might be available as soon as next week. Now there are half a million folks all over the state so I reckon the doses will be apportioned to:

* Health Professionals
* Elderly and At-Risk Health Situations
* Native and Bush Community.

Since a double dose is the standard treatment, that amount of doses will be absorbed relaively quickly even if, as I understand, a high percentage of my fellow Alaskans will not be eager to undergo vaccination. But it will establish a good base of people who will be examples of folks who got the shot early and did not get sick.

Good news!


08 Dec 20 - 11:23 AM (#4082453)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

A few days ago there were reports, and pictures, of Russians being administered the Sputnik covid 19 vaccine in Moscow.

The BBC news service said that "Russia is starting its Covid-19 vaccination programme, with clinics in the capital Moscow inoculating those most at risk from the virus.
Its own vaccine Sputnik V, which was registered in August, is being used."


This morning BBC Radio 4 news reported that a 90-year-old woman was the first person in the world to receive a covid 19 vaccine outside of a trial as part of its development.


09 Dec 20 - 06:44 AM (#4082564)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Just a snippet from today's Guardian: rich western nations with 14% of the world's population have bought up 53% of the vaccines. Canada, for example, has bought enough vaccine to vaccinate everyone in the country five times over.

That news has caused me to completely lose interest in where I might be on the UK priority list...


09 Dec 20 - 09:27 AM (#4082595)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

And the Pfizer vaccine has, through this field-testing by just giving vaccines to the populace, already been found to be too dangerous for people with -wait for it- bad allergies. One blicky.

I was *not* fearmongering. These vaccines are untested for anything other than efficacy.

This is a new *type* of vaccine. We have *no clue* what injecting rna can do. When they first started the polio vaccines hundreds of children got polio till they figured out how to use viruses in vaccines. And that is just an example.

People who are not frontline workers, like me, can afford to wait, though. Not at all saying it isn't worth the risk if you are such a worker. Just saying it *is* a risk.


09 Dec 20 - 10:42 AM (#4082611)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

It can be argued that SARS-CoV-2 is more of a risk.


09 Dec 20 - 12:26 PM (#4082624)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

From CNN, there were two health care workers, who carried an adrenaline auto-injector who had anaphylactoid reactions. The vaccine is supposed to stimulate the immune system, people with serious allergies have overly vigilant immune systems. This isn't a surprise reaction, but it would be good if they could reduce the possibility of a reaction.

It was close enough to "fear-mongering" for me to think of it as such. the "we have *no clue* what injecting..." is bullshit. They have a clue that it will provoke an immune response. I think most of us are fairly inured to most irrational fear of the unknown (to them, at least).

As for "People who are not frontline workers, like me, can afford to wait, though.", we don't have a choice in the US. I'll get the vaccine whenever I can, but I figure I'm not at the top of the list.

Those of us who aren't afraid will hopefully be enough to protect those who won't, or don't, get the shot from being infected, but it's pretty far off.


09 Dec 20 - 03:39 PM (#4082645)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

The Pfizer/BioNTech and the Oxford AztraZeneca vaccines have both been tested on >20,000 people.
The normal number of people tested for medicines licencing is anything between 300 and 3,000
These are not untested vaccines.


10 Dec 20 - 10:49 AM (#4082748)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

According to waste water testing, Boston will have a 500% spike next week.


10 Dec 20 - 04:33 PM (#4082802)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Well in Kent we now have 6 of the top 10 infected areas in England. The rates are continuing to rise. By the end of the week we might have all 10 of the most infected areas in England.

Matt Hancock has announced the testing of all schoolchildren. Didn't anyone tell him that we have had the Kent test for years?


11 Dec 20 - 07:05 AM (#4082893)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

While we were lulled into propogandized sleep, China has vaccinated 9 million people. They are also poised to vaccinate the middle east, Africa, South America and Mexico, Russia and South East Asia.

Meanwhile back on the farm Trump refused Pfizer's intial offer for 100 million doses so we are at the back of the line for them. We will face an intentional shortage with less effective vaccines. Supply and demand will raise prices?


11 Dec 20 - 07:14 AM (#4082894)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Trump thinks it's more important to execute people than to vaccinate.


11 Dec 20 - 02:04 PM (#4082964)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Correction China has innoculated only 1 million.

When I brought up the vaccine with black neighors, they laughed.


13 Dec 20 - 06:45 AM (#4083217)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The Dead are rising, cases climbing and the vaccine cavalry is coming.


14 Dec 20 - 12:38 PM (#4083409)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Covid-19 Live Updates: U.S. Begins Vaccine Rollout, With Shots Given in New York


14 Dec 20 - 01:19 PM (#4083418)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

And now we have a new strain of the virus with most cases of it appearing in the south east. Experts seem to think that might be an explanation of quick spread of the virus here in the south east of the UK.


14 Dec 20 - 01:26 PM (#4083420)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

My question is - THE VACCINES DO REQUIRE A SECOND 'BOOSTER' SHOT, BUT WHEN WILL WE LEARN IF FUTURE BOOSTERS ARE REQUIRED? accidental caps

Does the varient have a name yet?


14 Dec 20 - 02:42 PM (#4083427)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn

Or it could just be that the variant happens to be most common in the area where there has been this new upsurge. They don't really know. There are variants arising though so it is not a first. Scotland had a variant a bit earlier in the year and there was a Spanish one too recently if I recall. Sure there have been more.


14 Dec 20 - 10:21 PM (#4083501)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic

The predicted amount of vaccines has arrived in Alaska. Vaccinations begin tomorrow!

Way Cool.


15 Dec 20 - 08:18 AM (#4083549)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: McGrath of Harlow

"These vaccines are untested for anything other than efficacy."

That's not actually true. It's the kind of assertion that gets red-card3d by Twitter when the Great Loser makes it.

Adverse reactions by people with strong allergic vulnerabilities are not exactly unexpected in this kind of situation. You always need to have a look out for them, as was done in this case.


15 Dec 20 - 10:31 AM (#4083574)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

I listened to a radio program yesterday talking about various philosophical and statistical topics to do with COVID, and have decided that the "it's my body" argument can be shot down. Just as people aren't allowed to smoke in public buildings (even it if its their body they can't bring their smoke in) they are similarly not allowed in with bare faces. We don't want your germs or your smoke in here.

What a sorry excuse for a spouse when her husband ignores her request that people wear masks and they all get sick and her mother dies. I think I'd be ready to move away from that community by now.


15 Dec 20 - 03:13 PM (#4083608)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic

Mrrzy is correct that the mRNA vaccines are a new type. But I think the facts as we know them indicate that it is a far more targetting toward the virus type of vaccine and a far less body interfering type of vaccine. One of the reasons the new vaccines must be kept so cold is that the critical part of the vaccine is extremely delicate. It is there to do one thing and it will fall apart otherwise. The other reason is that there are no real additives to this vaccine the way normal vaccines have been formulated, hence it is really not as likely as the 'normal' vaccines to complicate the human resistance.

I think the mRNA vaccines are probably the safest ever prepared or manufactured precisely because of the technology behind them. They are a game changing technology.

This is Dr. McCoy territory.

Meanwhile, I believe the AstraZeneca vaccine is more of the 'normal' non RNA type and does not need to be stored at very low temps. It does have some additives as did the familiar forms of vaccines in the past.

I think a lot of initial reluctance to be inoculated in the immediate future comes from several main sources:

1) A feeling to 'not be first' along the lines of "Early bird gets the worm, second mouse gets the cheese."

2) People who may associate the virus AND the vaccine with Donald Trump.

3) People who are going to get the Chinese or Russian vaccine and may not feel these have been well vetted.

4) People who through cultural isolation or stigmatization have reservations to any organized medical community.

I think far more than 50% of the population will accept the vaccines in the near future.

Vaccines have a two hundred year history, going back to cowpox/ smallpox in Europe, perhaps longer in other parts of the world. They have had complications and problems historically, but they are true human-made miracles.


16 Dec 20 - 08:57 PM (#4083830)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Vaccines come from science... Non-overlapping magisteria with Trump.


16 Dec 20 - 09:14 PM (#4083835)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

RNA messenger vaccines against all forms of flu has been sought and have failed for over 12 years. Then again it is an entirely different kind of virus that mutates yearly. Perhaps what is learned recently will give a 'shot in the arm' to flu research.


17 Dec 20 - 12:33 PM (#4083881)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic

You may have heard of the Iditarod dog sled race. The basis of the race is a commemoration of a run via dogsled of serum. Via Wikipedia :

"The most famous event in the history of Alaskan mushing is the 1925 serum run to Nome, also known as the "Great Race of Mercy." It occurred when a large Diphtheria epidemic threatened Nome. Because Nome's supply of antitoxin had expired, Dr. Curtis Welch refused to use it and instead sent out telegrams seeking a fresh supply of antitoxin. The nearest antitoxin was found to be in Anchorage, nearly one thousand miles away. To get the antitoxin to Nome, sled dogs had to be used for part of the journey, as planes could not be used and ships would be too slow. Governor Scott Bone approved a safe route and the 20-pound (9.1 kg) cylinder of serum was sent by train 298 miles (480 km) from the southern port of Seward to Nenana, where just before midnight on January 27, it was passed to the first of twenty mushers and more than 100 dogs who relayed the package 674 miles (1,085 km) from Nenana to Nome. The dogs ran in relays an average of 31 miles (50 km) each, with no dog running over 100 miles (160 km)."


Listening to the radio this morning I've heard of vaccine being sent from Anchorage to Seward via delivery van and into another area via floatplane. That has to be somewhere in Southeast Alaska since all our other outdoor water is solid right now. It is not totally impossible that the vaccine might find its way onto a dogsled, and if I hear of that happenin, I'll be sure to mention it.


17 Dec 20 - 01:43 PM (#4083888)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Great movie, Balto.


17 Dec 20 - 02:15 PM (#4083895)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Any movies about dogs made for adults or older children - count me in...

.. is trump a dog, cat, or animal cruelty, kinda guy...???


17 Dec 20 - 02:17 PM (#4083896)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

.. even h1tler loved a dog...


17 Dec 20 - 05:15 PM (#4083919)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

No plan for vaccine certificates to be used to restrict what people can access or do
Hiqa’s advice to NPHET comes after the government outlined its national vaccination strategy yesterday.
Wed 2:51 PM 16,135 Views 58 Comments
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Image: Shutterstock/PhotobyTawat

Updated Wed 4:29 PM

THERE IS NO plan that vaccine certificates will be used to restrict what people can access or do in Ireland in the coming months.

Health Minister Stephen Donnelly said yesterday that vaccine certificates which could prove who has received the Covid-19 injection are “under consideration” by the government.

As part of the vaccine roll out implementation plan, the high-level vaccine task force said the vaccine administration process could include the production of a vaccine certificate after someone has received their doses.

There has been speculation that those who do not get vaccinated could be restricted in what they can do, in terms of attending large events or travel.

However, a spokesperson for the minister today said:

“It is not envisaged at this stage that the vaccine certificate, which is a medical record used to keep track of which vaccine has been given to a person and on which dates, will be used for any other purpose, such as travel or restricting access.”

The World Health Organization (WHO) does not recommend countries issuing “immunity passports” for those who have recovered from Covid-19 but said it is looking at prospects of deploying e-vaccination certificates.

The task force report, published yesterday, states that ”the design of this certificate and the scope of how it will be delivered (eg. physically, digitally or both) is currently being progressed with a number of stakeholders, including the EU”.

Head of the task force, Professor Brian MacCraith said that whether a certificate would be physical or digital is under consideration, but added “the language being used is very careful.

“It’s a vaccination certificate of proof of vaccination, nothing else.

“There are also discussions at an EU level of perhaps a single model across the EU 27 for example, but it’s under consideration within the IT infrastructure discussions and as you might imagine it’s not a particularly challenging thing to create in its simplest configuration,” he said.

Hiqa advice

Today, the Health Information and Quality Authority (Hiqa) has said trust, communication, and knowledge will be core tenets to help influence and improve the uptake of Covid-19 vaccinations in Ireland.

In advice issued to NPHET after reviewing international evidence, Hiqa said that the campaign to vaccinate Irish people should be largely based on consensus rather than penalties and enforcement.

Related Reads
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Covid-19 vaccination certificates 'under consideration' says health minister
15.12.20
The Covid-19 vaccination strategy has been announced - here's everything you need to know
15.12.20
Here's what'll happen when you go to get your Covid-19 vaccine

Hiqa also stressed in its advice that potential barriers to equitable access to vaccines should be minimised and said that, given the unique situation of Covid-19, evidence from other vaccines such as seasonal flu is likely to have limited applicability to the situation we’re in now in terms of uptake, preference and behaviours.

Yesterday, the government announced details of its National Covid-19 Vaccination Strategy.

It will see at-risk groups prioritised for the early rollout of Covid-19 vaccines, before it ramps up to groups within the wider population.

Dedicated mass vaccination hubs will be set up, while details around a person’s path from appointment to innoculation were also explained.

In considering its advice, Hiqa noted that concerns may be raised about how mRNA vaccines (such as those made by Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna) work as well as the rigour of the approval process from the European Medicines Agency (EMA).

Presenting information clearly and accurately on these topics was said to be an important factor in building trust with the public on the safety and efficacy of these vaccines.

During a meeting of its Covid-19 expert advisory group, Hiqa said: “It was noted that the majority of individuals do not have an inherent bias for or against a vaccine, but need to be assured and informed in terms of the evidence for potential benefit or harm relevant to them or their family.

    There was agreement among [group] members that any policy aiming to maximise uptake of the Covid-19 vaccine needs to focus on trust, communication and knowledge. There is a need for communication to reassure the public of the process of vaccination approval by the EMA. While timelines have been shortened, processes have been carried out in parallel rather than sequentially and are robust. All vaccines, including the new Covid-19 vaccines, undergo the same rigorous evaluation process by regulatory authorities.

Hiqa’s advice also pinpointed the importance of healthcare workers in this process.

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It said that in advance of any vaccination programme, healthcare workers should be provided with the necessary information for them to make informed decisions for themselves and also act as a trusted source of information for others.

Key figures within local communities, such as GPs, pharmacists, and religious and sports leaders were also pinpointed as important to provide with evidence-based information to help with engagement with the community.

“Evidence in relation to the effectiveness and safety of Covid-19 vaccines obtained through ongoing surveillance should be made available in a proactive, open and accountable manner to maintain public trust,” Hiqa added.

With additional reporting by Christina Finn
TheJournal.ie's coronavirus newsletter cuts through the misinformation and noise with the clear facts you need to make informed choices. Sign up here:

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Sean Murray
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18 Dec 20 - 05:26 AM (#4083967)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

A quarter million new infections a day doesn't matter to folks in Idaho. Demonstrators against a mask mandate carried signs of "99% survival is not an emergency". The mask mandate was withdrawn.
Way to go Idaho.


19 Dec 20 - 10:56 PM (#4084212)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

You guys, esp the UK folks, reading about Britain having a new variant that is more transmissible and mutates faster?


19 Dec 20 - 11:30 PM (#4084213)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

boris is proud to make Britain the first in having a world beating virulent new variant...

take that johnny foreigner...!!!


20 Dec 20 - 04:45 AM (#4084239)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Keir Starmer consistently demands much harder and longer restrictions, while also slagging off the government for the associated economic damage. And the media are letting him get away with these contradictory statements entirely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


20 Dec 20 - 06:55 AM (#4084260)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53325771


20 Dec 20 - 07:19 AM (#4084265)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

We have a house full of presents for my lad's family who were coming for the five days at Christmas and we've bought in all the food. We haven't exactly seen a lot of them this year as it is. They have our one and only precious grandchild. But they are now in Tier 4 and they're 250 miles away. So that's stuffed that. We're not even allowed to drive to deliver presents. Don't talk to me about contradictory messages, Bonzo (though I agree about how bloody useless Starmer is) when your man said one thing last week then at point blank notice banned everything he said the next. Government by confounded buffoon.

And I do know that millions are in the same boat...


20 Dec 20 - 08:08 AM (#4084272)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Yes, Johnson does have a lot to answer for and he will always cover himself with his scientific advisor line. I never have liked the man, but I don't envy his position one bit!


20 Dec 20 - 09:12 AM (#4084282)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

It seems we are not allowed to move into or out of Tier 4. But what about going through it without stopping? If you live south of Berkshire and you were planning to have Christmas dinner with a relative north of Berkshire, are you expected to make a much longer journey to go round it? Or hire a private helicopter?


20 Dec 20 - 11:43 AM (#4084302)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

I think the short answer is Just Stay Home. Life is more important than any holiday.


20 Dec 20 - 12:44 PM (#4084315)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn

Depends what is meant by stay at home? We have been basically self isolating for a fortnight already and the in laws have been doing the same. They live within the same region so we can still drive and spend Xmas Dinner with them. Just can't sleep over now! Admittedly we are lucky in that all three in our household can work at home and we are in a low prevelance area. We haven't been in a pub for 8 months or a shop for about 6 weeks. Basically we are pretty safe to frm a one day bubble. So not a one size fits all situation


20 Dec 20 - 12:52 PM (#4084320)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

You can drive through a Tier 4 area to get to a lower-tier place, Jos. When you get there, you have to obey the tier rules of that area, or, if you live in higher tier, the rules of your tier apply.


21 Dec 20 - 12:25 PM (#4084468)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

I just read that March 2020 was the first March without a school shooting [US] sinve 2002.
Thanks?


21 Dec 20 - 01:48 PM (#4084477)
Subject: RE: BS: New rumors on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

There are rumors that the mutated spikes of the Corona virus have mutated enough to make the mrna vaccine less effective - according to the reported rumors. How much less? Not even the rumors dare say.

A rumor yet to be rumored portends that this rumored varient will require a new shot every year like the flu.

Why this is a rumor is because I do not trust the Trump appointed US Surgeon General. Additionally I do not trust Donald, Steve, myself, Boris or Vladamir. :^/


21 Dec 20 - 04:15 PM (#4084494)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn

The news being reported here by the scientists is that they believe the variant is more easily transmitted. They do not believe that the virus is any more dangerous to the individual. And as yet they say there is no evidence that the vaccine would not be effective against it.


21 Dec 20 - 04:19 PM (#4084496)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

It 'just' means a lot more infected people ill and dying at the same time...

Thank you, any infected selfish twats fleeing London to the South West for xmas...


21 Dec 20 - 04:33 PM (#4084500)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

What Allan said. Rumors there are rumors about rumors are... the only time I've heard that shit is from Donuel.


21 Dec 20 - 04:49 PM (#4084501)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Let's stick to new news in this thread. "There's a rumour that..." is both scaremongering and weasel words, frankly.


21 Dec 20 - 05:37 PM (#4084508)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Don't worry pfr. The new variant is on the way west,street by street. Look how it moved through Kent and is now moving through Sussex. Onward and westward.


22 Dec 20 - 09:28 AM (#4084580)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

The term "new variant" is the latest instrument of control. See through it.


22 Dec 20 - 09:35 AM (#4084581)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

If only they could control it.Enjoy your freedom while you can. Tier 4 is coming for you.


22 Dec 20 - 10:24 AM (#4084584)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

I voiced my skepticism about the announcement by our Surgeon General and sarcasticly call it a rumor. If you want to call what he said 'news' about a mutated strain having less effectiveness in preventing disease from a vaccine - that is up to you.

Jeri, I don't trust you either. Why on Earth should I?


22 Dec 20 - 10:39 AM (#4084587)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Come to think of it I consider most 'News' to be rumor.
The better we get the science on one side exact the better the economic side will become. The problem is the science can't always be exact. Today I heard Dr. Fauci outright lie but it was about
Santa so all is forgiven. I think people drift here but I don't see anyone deliberately lie to others except about themselves.


22 Dec 20 - 11:42 AM (#4084602)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

I see that some of the pubs in Herefordshire (tier 1 but for how long) are insisting that the local is for locals only.

"You're not from around here are you?"

Sky news just said that there has been a record number of new cases in today's figures.


22 Dec 20 - 11:46 AM (#4084603)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick


22 Dec 20 - 01:16 PM (#4084611)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Scientists now considering children as a main factor for spreading new variant..

Teacher's better start organising their funeral plans
for when boris insists on keeping schools open in the new year...


22 Dec 20 - 03:57 PM (#4084622)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The experts I have heard, all say "We THINK the varient will respond to the existing vaccines". A few say "It may be slightly less effective".
Without enough time there is no settled science.

Being more contagious is better than being more harmful or deadly.
To counteract the varient the ball is in our court of our own behavior.


22 Dec 20 - 04:14 PM (#4084625)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

"Being more contagious is better than being more harmful or deadly."

Up to a point. Being more contagious means you end up with more people needing hospital care,which unfortunately means a number of those patients are going to die.

Here in Kent (the car park of England), the hospitals have been practically full since last Friday. Other operations and procedures have had to be cancelled.

Back in October,before the national 4 week lockdown, rates were low. In Dover they were in the low double figures. Then they started to rise. They continued to rise during the lockdown. After lockdown we moved to tier 3. The rates kept rising. Then on Saturday they moved us to tier 4. The rates are still on the rise.


22 Dec 20 - 04:34 PM (#4084626)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: mg

some infectious disease scientists are asking us to do a daily sniff test to see if our sense of smell is working..it proves nothing one way or another but it is an indication, along with daily temperature taking. if your nose works fine with a sniff of something like lemon, pinesol, peppermint etc...you could be free of virus..or not. If all of a sudden you can not smell consider it a hint to get tested if possible. I personally have supplies on hand that follow the zelenko protocol for quercetin. Read up on ivermectin. Yes it is for deworming horses. Do what you want or not. Be abusive or not.


22 Dec 20 - 04:49 PM (#4084627)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

"The experts I have heard, all say "We THINK the varient will respond to the existing vaccines". A few say "It may be slightly less effective".

Despite what you are being told, scaremongering is apparently in your blood. "The experts I have heard" is classic weasel words. Why don't you just read the news properly before you post. Maybe you just want to stand out from the crowd. Unfortunately, you stand out in the wrong way.


22 Dec 20 - 04:54 PM (#4084628)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

.. seriously, been doing the sniff test several times a day for months..

Never thought the wife's farts would one day potentially save our lives...


22 Dec 20 - 05:01 PM (#4084630)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I have to do the sniff test every time I put a mask on. They make my nose itch like mad so I have to find a secluded spot somewhere near the fish counter so that I can scratch and sniff unobserved. This morning in the convenience store I had to suppress a sneeze by pinching hard the bridge of my nose just above the mask. Can't think that I was being strictly legal there....


22 Dec 20 - 05:08 PM (#4084633)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Rain dog I know
mg I use cinnamon for a test


22 Dec 20 - 05:32 PM (#4084636)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

In spite of many restrictions on our liberty, I don't think sneezing, or in your case, Steve, not sneezing, are illegal.


22 Dec 20 - 07:47 PM (#4084642)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Yebbut what's the protocol if you're in a shop with a mask on and you have an irresistible urge to sneeze? I just about managed to suppress it, but I'm an epic no-reason sneezer and it WILL happen again...


22 Dec 20 - 08:35 PM (#4084649)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Rather than attending to the Donuel/Mrrzy axis rumourmongering thing, read this eminently sane piece from the Guardian, contributed in very measured style by someone who is more than qualified to know what she's talking about. It was published today. As ever, sorry for my stupidity in being unable to do a proper link. You'll get there by googling well enough.

"Here's what we know about the new variant of coronavirus"

[Sharon Peacock]


23 Dec 20 - 01:53 AM (#4084663)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic

So, in this part of Alaska, which is north and west of Ebbie, We've been delivered Moderna doses in addition to the Pfizer (I almost wrote it as "Pixar"). Vaccines are being administered to medical personnel and sent to the bush to take care of elements of our native population. And for the latest two days, numbers of brand new cases have gone down.

So, as well as can be expected.


23 Dec 20 - 02:15 AM (#4084665)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

is it correct that the vaccine does not prevent the spread of the virus or stop you from getting it , but boosts the immune system to fight against it, if this is the case it is useless other than for people who have a weak immune system. so effectively it is not a proper vaccine?
please not these are questions.
vaccines as i understood the meaning of the word such as polio and tb prevented you getting the disease
is this more newspeak


23 Dec 20 - 02:18 AM (#4084666)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

that should have read please note these are questions


23 Dec 20 - 03:06 AM (#4084673)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn

The Pfizer vaccine seems to stop up to about 95% of people from becoming ill with the disease. They still don't really know if it stops you actually being infected or stops you being able to transmit the disease. That is seemingly because the trials were designed to look for symptomatic covid-19 and confirmed infection. I think likewise with the Oxford trials which seemed to show a bit less efficacy however no-one on the Oxford trials group of people became seriously ill or needed hospitalisation. So how good they are at stopping infection - or if they even do stop infection - will be known in time.


23 Dec 20 - 04:11 AM (#4084677)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Manitas_at_home

A normal vaccine works by 'priming' your immune system. If I have this right the vaccine is a small dose of 'dead' virus and the immune system reacts to this by producing antibodies so that the body is ready for the 'live' virus. The new forms of vaccine work by introducing only part of the RNA of the virus. It's still your immune system that does the work.


23 Dec 20 - 06:02 AM (#4084680)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

No vaccine can stop you from getting infected, if by that you mean stopping the germs getting into you (vaccines don't create a magic bubble round you). The virus may still get into your cells, but your immune system will prevent it from getting a foothold. The question that remains to be answered is whether there's a phase in which your antibodies are protecting you whilst at the same time you can still transmit viruses to other people. It's a question that must arise with all vaccines I should imagine. But, generally, vaccines work well, so let's be optimistic, eh? .


23 Dec 20 - 08:04 AM (#4084688)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Manitas_at_home

Just found this https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=742521735347&set=pcb.742521830157


23 Dec 20 - 08:16 AM (#4084692)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

That suggests that people who have had the virus, and recovered, don't need the vaccine.


23 Dec 20 - 09:11 AM (#4084700)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

That's only as maybe. It's known that immune response memory is not the same for every infection. We haven't had the long time period as yet to know how long immunity lasts for coronavirus. An optimist might say for life, a pessimist might say for just a few months. Testing recovered people for antibodies would be a great way of finding out if only the antibody level in the blood stayed high, but it doesn't seem to, but that doesn't necessarily mean that immunity has been lost. The science is on a steep learning curve.


23 Dec 20 - 12:57 PM (#4084719)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Further English counties / regions put into tier 4. Have to ask why the whole of Sussex was not tier 4 earlier.

Here in Dover they have not put us into tier 5 yet,we just have to put up with a large part of the town gridlocked. Any resident needing an ambulance will have a long wait.


23 Dec 20 - 02:13 PM (#4084726)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

Further English counties / regions put into tier 4. Have to ask why the whole of Sussex was not tier 4 earlier.
Further areas (mainly in S.E. England) will be put into Tier 4 from 26 December

Here in Dover they have not put us into tier 5 yet,we just have to put up with a large part of the town gridlocked. Any resident needing an ambulance will have a long wait.
There is no Tier 5. Even Scotland with 5 tiers only goes up to Tier 4.


23 Dec 20 - 02:25 PM (#4084730)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

There is no tier 5 yet Nigel.
If you care to remember, there was no tier 4 until the day they announced it.


23 Dec 20 - 02:29 PM (#4084731)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

Here in Dover they have not put us into tier 5 yet, suggests that there is a tier 5 that you could be put into.
"They haven't created a tier 5 for us yet, but I'm sure they will" would have been a clearer message.


23 Dec 20 - 02:38 PM (#4084732)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Well let's hope it is no higher than 5.
Back in those dim and distant days when Kent was in tier 3 and some innocent souls had not dreamt of tier 4,I said to my sister that I expected Kent to go into tier 10. Way to go yet.


23 Dec 20 - 03:06 PM (#4084734)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

But there is no tier 10... gotcha.. you made a mistake...!!!

Nigel - haha.. beat you to it...


Thankfully, pedantry is not quite as virulent as covid.. yet...


23 Dec 20 - 04:46 PM (#4084743)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Damn. There I was thinking I was doing well by not mentioning the new 'new variant '


23 Dec 20 - 04:49 PM (#4084744)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Does anybody know anything about the nanoparticles in the vaccines?


23 Dec 20 - 04:59 PM (#4084749)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic

This article in Salon magazine talks about the background to the new mRNA vaccine and mentions nanoparticles.


23 Dec 20 - 05:51 PM (#4084758)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

"mRNA being short for 'synthetic messenger RNA."'

No it isn't. mRNA stands for messenger RNA. Your article tries hard, but at the end of the day it's a popular science piece, and it contains a fair number of daft analogies. At least, it avoids scaremongering, unlike a couple of our correspondents here.


23 Dec 20 - 07:46 PM (#4084773)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Yeah, glad info is getting to readers of Salon, though.

This is pop sci too but it is more sci.

My question, though, was about what the nanites do that makes the vaccine work, not what might be wrong with having them there, but this was all that popped up.

Thanks.

I know we have real scientists here who can explain without drowning out info with jargon. Maybe one of them would chime in...

And nanites is a Star Trek reference, but it is shorter than nanoparticles.


23 Dec 20 - 07:50 PM (#4084775)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Ooh better one sorry rushing

How nanotechnology helps mRNA Covid-19 vaccines work.

Link added by mudelf


23 Dec 20 - 08:31 PM (#4084783)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Just like with Donuel, scaremongering is in your blood, isn't it? Just knock it off, will you. We know you're special without your having to prove it to us every other day.


25 Dec 20 - 11:28 AM (#4084960)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Apparently it may be the nanoparticles that are giving some people the allergic reactions.

Also, people who already have facial cosmetic implants, apparently, are more likely to so react.

I am not including blickies for these as the findings are easy to research.


26 Dec 20 - 01:02 PM (#4085077)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Coronavirus Songs (COVID-19; Pandemic)
From: Donuel

prediction


27 Dec 20 - 06:56 PM (#4085248)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mr Red

I saw a YouTube video from a Doctor (he has several on COVID) where he was saying the Astra-Zeneca/Oxford vaccine would turn out to be the most effective. Because:
1) Old technology.
2) Claimed efficacy would probably improve with larger data, whereas the others may well fall due to distribution logistics with storage temperature needed.
3) $3/4 a shot means the take-up world wide will be greater. And it has to be a world solution, we are a flat earth (commercially speaking).

& I would add that the Serum Institute in India (the biggest make of vaccines) turned over all their production to the A-Z/O vaccine long ago. A gamble now paying off. India is a big market.

I see several of this parish have had the call to arm. Things is moving fast.


28 Dec 20 - 05:15 AM (#4085283)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

That was good news. US hospitals are now running out of Covid treatment supplies. The sick are on their own.


28 Dec 20 - 08:30 AM (#4085307)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

COVID https://www.politico.com/cartoons/2020/03/26/cartoonists-around-the-world-take-on-a-global-pandemic-000141?slide=10

https://www.politico.com/cartoons/2020/03/26/cartoonists-around-the-world-take-on-a-global-pandemic-000141?slide=10


29 Dec 20 - 10:18 PM (#4085604)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: mg

interesting reports on nasal vaccines..that would be great..potential bottlenecks for vial, needles etc. removed. people hate getting shots..more would probably take nasal. not sure of refrigeration requirements..


30 Dec 20 - 01:15 AM (#4085619)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

This faster spreading COVID-19 virus has been discovered in Colorado in a young man with no history of travel. Not surprising.


30 Dec 20 - 02:13 AM (#4085624)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn

Oxford vaccine given approval today and seemingly supplies for up to 4 million shots ready to be rolled out and of course because just needs to be kept in fridge it can be distributed from GP surgeries and straight to care homes. Or I suppose maybe like the flu vaccine which here in Kelso was also done in a local concert hall. Two shots. Possibly up to 12 weeks apart as decision is to get at least one shot to as many folk's as possible. In the trials no-one who received at least one shot contracted severe symptoms or was hospitalised.


30 Dec 20 - 02:56 PM (#4085724)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Dawn Wells (Mary Ann on Gilligan's Island) died of COVID-19.
    Dawn Wells, best known for playing the girl-next-door castaway Mary Ann on the iconic CBS comedy series Gilligan’s Island, died Wednesday morning in Los Angeles of complications due to Covid-19. She was 82.

    Wells, who was Miss Nevada in the 1959 Miss America pageant, beat out 350 actresses for the role of Mary Ann Summers. She also appeared in more 150 series and several movies during her career as well as on Broadway.


30 Dec 20 - 03:01 PM (#4085725)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Aw.


30 Dec 20 - 03:11 PM (#4085726)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

wot a surprise..

tory govt insist on reopening primary schools on Monday,
but will not prioritise front line school staff over age of 50
for protective vaccines...

.. making the most of their last chance to kill off expensive higher salaried older unionised anti tory voting teachers...!!!


30 Dec 20 - 03:40 PM (#4085730)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

One step forward and two steps back.
Tories have always been 2 bit hacks.


31 Dec 20 - 01:46 PM (#4085893)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

So..

this evening's news..

South East England increasing covid crisis, Hospitals at bursting point and overflowing..

South East covid patients being transported cross country to South West England intensive care beds..

That's nice for us innit...!!!

Exporting their new variant risk to our Hospitals and medical workers;
and filling up our intensive care beds
so there's no more space for us when we get infected by them...

Nice to think how many of 'em were brave bold anti mask covid deniers...???


01 Jan 21 - 03:01 AM (#4085973)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Tut tut tut pfr.

It is the National Health Service.

Local hospital beds for local people?

Local comedians for local people?

No more hospital care for drinkers, smokers, drug users and mushroom users?

Pfr.When did that change to parochial folk rocker.

Happy New Year to you and the rest of the mudcatters. Stay safe and beware the new 'new variant' heading your way.

Tier 5 anyone?


01 Jan 21 - 03:41 AM (#4085975)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn

I kind of agree with Rain Dog on that. If people need treated then they need treated. Folk in rural areas shouldn't be too complacent. We often have lower rates - but also tend to have less capacity - so could well also find ourselves being treated outside our regions. Just several weeks ago here in the Scottish Borders we were like our neighbours in Dumfries & Galloway and had very low rates at about 30+ per 100,000 - but it has since rocketed to about 170 per 100,000. We could well find ourselves taken up to Edinburgh for treatment when just really days ago we thought we didn't have a problem and the local hospital was under no pressure. It is about pulling together when too often folks look for others to blame. You even heard the suggestion here among some that the fault for the increase was the doctors and health workers from the Lothians coming to help at the Borders Hospital. Gratitude eh???


01 Jan 21 - 04:50 AM (#4085984)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Well here in the Westcountry the ethos has been to be very compliant with the rules and the infection rates have been lower than in most other places. Yet for months we've been tearing our hair out as we've seen masses of tourists pouring in untrammelled since the summer right to the end of October, the vast majority from urban areas with far higher rates than ours. I can go out now and see camper vans, motor homes, cars with roof boxes and occupied second homes in blatant contravention of the rules. We are all being told not to travel and major hospitals are few and far between (one in Cornwall for half a million people). So the resentment at the idea that sick people from all over the place may be wheeled in because of the running down of the NHS and the gross mishandling of this pandemic is perfectly understandable. Innit.


01 Jan 21 - 06:36 AM (#4086002)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Hospital provision between Taunton and Bristol
has been severely reduced in the recent few years.

Tories were already dismantling capacity at Weston super Mare hospital
before it was stricken with emergency covid deaths
and temporarily closed earlier in the summer
when lockdown was eased.

North Somerset locals were attacked by Bristol newspapers
for justifiably protesting about that inevitable result
of summer tourists flooding back...

Do not resuscitate now applies to elderly patients hospitalized for chest pains
and other common potentially serious ailments..

The hospital is now already that desperate for available beds...


01 Jan 21 - 06:41 AM (#4086004)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Usual tory divide and rule, and distract, tactics..

In the summer it was cities versus country & coast;
now also pitting south east versus south west...


01 Jan 21 - 06:51 AM (#4086007)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Well one bit of good news is that rates have started to fall, albeit slowly, here in Dover. Remains to be seen if they will increase again after the Christmas and New Year holidays.


01 Jan 21 - 03:18 PM (#4086046)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Posted this in the wrong thread earlier.

'I see that the new 'new variant' has been designated 'Variant of Concern'by Public Health England.'


01 Jan 21 - 03:36 PM (#4086051)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Next lever tier will be 'Variant of oh fuck !!!!!!!'...


01 Jan 21 - 03:49 PM (#4086055)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

It used to be rare, when one heard about someone who thought they had COVID. A friend got tested back in April for something that was so rare it was almost impossible to find a test. This week I learned of a friend whose husband brought it home from work to her; they are recuperating. My next door neighbor [foolishly] went to church on xmas eve and learned a couple of days later that the pastor had COVID, so they're laying low. No symptoms, and they're an older couple so it needs to stay that way. I've seen her twice briefly on the porch to hand over something (a gift, and later baked goods). Such a brief encounter and only one time on the porch neither of us had a mask. She has several relatives who have reported it, one was on a ventilator.

This news is going to continue to be grim as we wait out the 14 days period after New Year's Eve when people still foolishly got together indoors for extended periods of time. Texas hospitals are full and patients with other problems are being sent out of state to hospitals with room for them.


01 Jan 21 - 04:20 PM (#4086061)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Close members of my wife's family in Wales have covid..

Apparently one of their student kids brought it into the house.

Parents are in their 50s, and so far seem to be recovering ok
from a very unpleasant illness...


01 Jan 21 - 04:31 PM (#4086063)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

The family of 5 who live next door to us all have covid. Two are teachers, one primary and the other secondary.


01 Jan 21 - 04:33 PM (#4086064)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

A further 20 patients being transferred from Kent hospitals

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/news/kent-is-completely-overwhelmed-240101/

I cannot manage a blue click easily on this smartphone

Added for you. ---mudelf


01 Jan 21 - 04:35 PM (#4086065)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

My wife is still under orders to return to front line infant school teaching
on Monday.
With no enhanced PPE provided, or priority for a vaccine...


01 Jan 21 - 07:57 PM (#4086087)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Great start to what is supposed to be a better New Year, eh! The motor homes are still around, the lights are on in the second homes, saw a bunch of eight people having a huddled picnic on the sea front here in tier 3... It was so bloody cold that I was tempted to go up to 'em and tell 'em that they'd catch pneumonia out in this weather...


02 Jan 21 - 11:07 PM (#4086210)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: keberoxu

Hardly new, but still quotable, is
a Tweet from Dan Rather, December 2020.

So, let me get this right.
The criticism of Dr. Jill Biden is
that she's not a "medical doctor"?
Says a bunch of people who have been
ignoring medical doctors
about a pandemic that has killed over 300,000 Americans?
Can someone invent a hypocrisy mute button?

17 December 2020


03 Jan 21 - 02:07 AM (#4086217)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: mg

from california...43 cases of covid in emergency department staff..or perhaps including other staff..they are saying someone wearing a christmas tree costume..with a fan to keep it inflated..perhaps spread it. if so...probably the stupidest thing i have heard. Google it..if it is true..the basic story is true..it is beyond belief.


03 Jan 21 - 05:55 AM (#4086229)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Whilst I agree 100% that measures must be put in place to keep teachers safe, so also must accountants - who provide an ignored essential service, be kept safe by extending the tax return deadline to 28 February or even 31 March, to allow remote working which is very much slower.


03 Jan 21 - 07:16 AM (#4086237)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Yep, first things first, eh, Bonzo? Put accountants first in line for the jab! Very timely of you to post that, as I've just read that 1% of the population owns 25% of the wealth...


03 Jan 21 - 11:58 AM (#4086269)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

None of our clients fall into that category. It doesn't matter whether you are in the 1% or the 99%, if you are required to complete a tax return, the deadline is 31 January.


03 Jan 21 - 12:09 PM (#4086272)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

HMRC send me emails from about April onwards telling me that my tax return is due and urging me to hurry up and send it in - even though I don't need to do it until January. It isn't as if it comes as a surprise.
Mine is very straightforward - it takes me about a day, and then I check it again the next day before sending it in. If it was so complicated I needed an accountant I would give him or her the figures in plenty of time so there would be no need to extend the deadline.


03 Jan 21 - 01:13 PM (#4086283)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

I wish many of our clients would do that, always last minute and only send half of the information!!


03 Jan 21 - 01:31 PM (#4086292)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Bonz - perhaps this year they are waiting to see if they snuff it from covid,
before bothering with the hassle of tax forms...???


03 Jan 21 - 05:05 PM (#4086323)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Here's that story about a costume with a fan spreading COVID-19.

A well-meaning gesture at a California hospital may have backfired this Christmas: To celebrate the holiday, an emergency room employee at Kaiser Permanente San Jose briefly wore an inflatable costume to work on December 25. Hospital officials are now looking into whether the costume's fan may have splayed infectious particles across the emergency department.

Between December 27 and January 1, 44 hospital employees at Kaiser Permanente San Jose tested positive for COVID-19.

"Any exposure, if it occurred, would have been completely innocent, and quite accidental, as the individual had no COVID symptoms and only sought to lift the spirits of those around them during what is a very stressful time," Irene Chavez, the hospital's senior vice president, said in a statement to ABC7 News.

She added: "If anything, this should serve as a very real reminder that the virus is widespread, and often without symptoms, and we must all be vigilant."


04 Jan 21 - 06:26 PM (#4086502)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

New news is just the old news again here in the UK. Back to full lockdown in England.No real surprise there.

Yet again I have to ask who is in charge of pr/communication for the Government? Who ever it is they are doing a pretty poor job.


04 Jan 21 - 08:13 PM (#4086524)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney

Here in Australia's biggest city we have a couple of big hotspots & some lockdowns, but folk from these clusters have gone about their business not knowing they have covid so other suburbs & country towns are at risk. States have locked their boarders against travellers from other states. Country towns have been mainly covid free so far. Today's news - People in Broken Hill (1200 km from Sydney), Orange (250km) and Nyngan (550km) urged to come forward for testing after man travelled for camping trip.

Finally our state Premier has ordered (rather than strongly advising) mask to be worn on public transport & inside shopping centers, shops & other premises. Folk with medical conditions that make wearing a mask difficult or dangerous are exempt, but of course some folk know rules don't apply to them. They have god?-given rights, but as a cartoonist put it "Your right not to wear a mask ends at my nasal passages."

Where to buy reusable face masks in Australia – and how to make your own


05 Jan 21 - 09:52 AM (#4086591)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Los Angeles County has had to tell its ambulances not to even bother transporting people "with little chance of survival" and to conserve O2. Giving people no chance of survival. Great.


05 Jan 21 - 11:51 AM (#4086603)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

It's part of a military type of triage, because in wartime, resources are limited. The "expectant" triage category, which doesn't typically exist in "normal life", is when a patient is expected to die without heroic intervention. They're dealing with reality, which sucks. Look to all those "we don't believe Covid is real", or "we're tired of wearing masks and distancing" people for the reasons.


05 Jan 21 - 12:21 PM (#4086606)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

I know what you mean but denial rivals survival.

Denial is always the first response

An Alzheimer syndrome seems to accompagny covid infection beyond the mildest symptoms and even compromises blood brain barriers.


05 Jan 21 - 12:54 PM (#4086612)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Charmion's brother Andrew

Here's a CBC News piece about a Newfound folksong parody that's on-topic. ;)


05 Jan 21 - 01:49 PM (#4086615)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

She's not a crazy person...

Neither are all the not crazy people leaving not crazy
comments of support for her...

Just understand they are not the crazy folks.. WE are...!!!!!


06 Jan 21 - 08:10 AM (#4086691)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

Boris announced on Monday evening that all schools would be 'closed tomorrow' except for the children of key workers. Since my husband is a full-time school cleaner he was left wondering if he'd be needed or not. His team of cleaners comprises about fifteen people. Not a peep from his school either on their website or by phone. So he went in as usual yesterday, the date term was supposed to start.
There were only ten pupils (secondary school and sixth-form college) so he did some 'deep-cleaning' and was sent home a few hours early.
He was told to keep going in, and next week all the cleaners will be split into pairs per day. His day will be Fridays.
I can't see how this is protecting anybody. None of the ten pupils have been tested and are not wearing masks. The teacher/s are still being exposed to possible infection. And my husband has only been given a little paper mask to wear.
I'm terrified he gets Covid, and I'm surprised his Union (Unison) hasn't spoken up about this.


06 Jan 21 - 08:47 AM (#4086698)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney

not a good situation for anyone. I hope it improves, but from what I've read about UK situation, it is not good.

best wishes & hugs to you both

sandra


Prime Minister's speech, 5th Jan


06 Jan 21 - 09:01 AM (#4086701)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

We CAN pretend that new varient virus are not 70% more contagious/
We can pretend that virus won't continue to mutate.
We can pretend there is no such thing as virus'.

In our teenage years it was normal to feel almost immortal.
In our heart we all enjoy pretending.
The crazy people don't know they are pretending.
Sane people just pretend quietly and in private moments.


06 Jan 21 - 10:56 AM (#4086721)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Apparently.. [ie, I switched TV on near the end of a news item, so missed most details]..

Covid deniers had to be ejected from a sterile ICU area of a UK hospital
after invading to photograph 'proof' that the virus is a hoax...!!!?????

When are these fukwits going to get prison time,
instead of minor reprimands,
or petty fines that will probably be paid by crowd funders..

If the worry is prison will make martyrs of them,
surely there are other ways to really punish such covidiot wankers...


06 Jan 21 - 11:16 AM (#4086726)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

It's not unlikely that the new variant is becoming prevalent due to natural selection. Another point is that London, along with other parts of the south-east the main focus of the variant's explosive spread, was, until recently, under very mild restrictions (Tier 2), which are now regarded as having been ineffective. New variant that was maybe SLIGHTLY more transmissible, huge crowded city, indulgent restrictions regime, a penchant for many Londoners to pile down to Cornwall and Devon for their late holidays...As with everything, nothing is simple and nothing can be ascribed to a single factor. My hunch is that the variant IS more transmissible, but that only a fool would put a percentage on it, and we must use that to explain its spread only when we take all those other issues into account.


06 Jan 21 - 11:17 AM (#4086727)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

Thank you very much Sandra.
As I understand it, being black increases the chances of being very ill/dying from the virus.
I suppose the schools are being treated as childcare centres so that the parents can go to work.
But secondary school pupils are surely capable of looking after themselves at home? My sister and I did while our mother worked, even during the school holidays.
I also feel sorry for the teachers.
At least the supermarket Morrisons is giving all 'frontline workers' a 10% reduction on their bill at the checkout, on production of the ID badge. Husband proudly shows his badge and the lady always says, "Stay safe!"


06 Jan 21 - 11:37 AM (#4086729)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

Maggie got it right. I see it more like you have certain people you hate, designated adversaries, and so it's fair for you to make personal attacks.

It's not. While you're a member here, the personal attacks, the "stalking" will be deleted.

That's the last I'll say about it. Tangential, but mostly off-topic.


06 Jan 21 - 11:59 AM (#4086733)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

It may seem non sequitur to leave Jeri's post after several others were removed, but these two can serve as a reminder that the running battles from one thread to another are not acceptable.


06 Jan 21 - 12:20 PM (#4086738)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

The scariest stat I saw today was loss of smell and taste in 86% of mild cases.


06 Jan 21 - 12:23 PM (#4086739)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

I can't agree with you Steve.
Here in Dover along with most of Kent,rates were low before the 4 week lockdown in November. I have said before that the rate in Dover was in the low double figures.
During lockdown the rates started to rise in Medway, Swale and Thanet, the north and north east areas of Kent. Some people thought the rise in Swale was connected to the number of prisons there. Others put it down to lack of social distancing.
The rates then started to increase through Kent. We ended lockdown and went into tier 3 and then tier 4. The rates continued to increase. In all this time I did not notice any major change in people's behaviour. I would watch the local news each night and was puzzled by the continuing rise. I watched it sweep through Kent and then continue westward into Sussex. Something was amiss. I think that it is safe to say that it is more transmissible, worryingly so. I think that the authorities were slow to react. They certainly had more information than I did.


06 Jan 21 - 02:36 PM (#4086762)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Over a 1000 covid related deaths announced today in the UK. Highest daily rate since April

Surrey and Sussex hospitals declare major incident due to large number of covid patients being treated.

Heard today that vaccine will start to be issued here in Dover and Deal from week starting 11th January.


06 Jan 21 - 05:53 PM (#4086796)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

My surmise is that the new variant IS more transmissible, and I haven't said that it isn't. But someone here has put an arbitrary figure of "70% more contagious" which was a rehashed comment made by one quasi-maverick bloke in the UK and which is a claim bereft of evidence. The responsible thing is to base our opinions on credible facts. It is not responsible to jump on a titbit of a unsupported comment made by one person and use it to tell people of more measured opinion that they are pretending. That's all. And there's no need for you to disagree. I'd be quite happy to be wrong.

The infection rate here has burgeoned. It is a cold winter. Ten million people in London and around were in an ineffective tier until not long before Christmas. The government failed to call a firebreak at the October half term. Instead, we had a panic-stricken December lockdown...in which schools were allowed to stay open, fer chrissake. Secondary schools in particular are known to be virus pits. All through the autumn, people from the most infected areas were allowed to go on holiday in droves. Here in Cornwall, where rates have been low, we were swamped with tourists from the biggest and most infected urban areas right up to the beginning of November. It was actually phenomenal. Round here today, the roads are as busy as ever. In the March lockdown, in contrast, there was no traffic. Yesterday, in a supposed lockdown, in a three-mile drive from Bude to my house, I saw five motor homes and a camper van, on the first day of a supposed lockdown, and the locals round here can tell you of second homes still occupied.

Yes there is a variant that may be - probably is - more transmissible. That variant first exploded into action in London and around, a big crowded city that was still enjoying it pub and cafe culture. But when you're trying to get your head around the parlous state the country is in, to use "a more transmissible variant" as the exclusive explanation as to why we have so many infections is just what this benighted government wants you to think. Nice way of diverting the blame away from them. In all probability, it is just one factor among all the others I've just listed. Let's not be taken in, and let's go with all the caveats that you can pick out in this post, if you bother to look.


06 Jan 21 - 06:36 PM (#4086804)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

One supposed lockdown too many there. Oops...


12 Jan 21 - 05:33 PM (#4087662)
Subject: positive update on Marianne Faithfull
From: keberoxu

The interview in Mojo magazine is obviously from months back,
as is usual with periodicals like this one.
I got a look at a copy on a newsstand today,
but the interview goes back to the last calendar year.


"She Walks In Beauty" is going to be her latest record album,
a tribute to the English Romantic poets.
Marianne Faithfull is still mourning the loss of
producer Hal Willner.
Like her, he contracted COVID-19;
unlike her, he did not recover, and died last year.

Faithfull made the recording after being released from hospital.
COVID-19's immediate effects
were the loss of short-term memory, lung function, and her voice.

She stated in the update interview
that her lungs were very badly affected,
but that they are healing now,
adding,
"My short-term memory is affected.
But I'm told that when you have coronavirus as badly as I did, that happens.
But your memory comes back,
and mine is coming back.
And my lungs are coming back too.
I've made a beautiful record."


15 Jan 21 - 10:45 AM (#4088110)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Life insurance is SNAFU due to virus
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-02/covid-unknowns-leave-survivors-fearing-life-insurance-rejection


15 Jan 21 - 11:20 AM (#4088123)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Thompson

Ireland, having had the second-best figures in the world for months, allowed everyone to come home and go out and socialise over Christmas, and now has the second-worst figures in the world. People are absolutely raging, those of use who are not in hospital.
Here's the graph of what our outbreak looks like (today anyway; the graph may change in time on the website as it doesn't seem to be dated).


15 Jan 21 - 12:44 PM (#4088145)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

We are told to anticipate 90,000 new deaths over the next 3 weeks.


15 Jan 21 - 05:28 PM (#4088185)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Does the NRA going bankrupt belong in this or the Not About The Virus new news thread?


15 Jan 21 - 05:56 PM (#4088190)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

It belongs in the Trump era news, for one. But it's good news wherever one reads it!


19 Jan 21 - 04:22 AM (#4088725)
Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness in a Pandemic: 2021
From: The Sandman

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000rcnl d
Irish Times
ventilation is key to stopping the spread of Covid-19
Clean air far more important than clean hands
Thu, Oct 8, 2020, 00:55
Orla Hegarty


Covid-19 has meant hard choices and serious consequences, with an escalation in restrictions and enforcement. But, if the rules aren’t being effective, could the rules be wrong? Last week the HSE gave a briefing about recent outbreaks. One case resulted in the infection of four restaurant staff and six people at another table; another cluster involved 14 of 27 students in a class. It was confirmed that Nphet guidelines were being followed, but when asked how this could have happened the HSE response was that “this virus is very unpredictable”.

This week there are 31 outbreaks in nursing homes and 25 in communities where people live in close proximity. A cluster from a cafe in Cork resulted in 57 infections; and of the 28,000 cases nationally up to the end of August, more than one in 20 were workers in meat plants.

All of these outbreaks follow very similar patterns to other countries and they all happen where crowds gather in very specific conditions – indoors in poor ventilation.

What is sidestepped in public health advice is that “super-spread events” are clear-cut and can be prevented. “Super-spread” is defined as an occasion where five people or more become infected, and up to 97 per cent happen indoors, according to research from Japan.
High-risk conditions

Moreover, just 10-20 per cent of those carrying Covid may be causing 80 per cent of new infections and it happens in known high-risk conditions. So, public health advice to “halve all contacts” is unlikely to halve the new cases when the majority of contacts are low-risk and where these known super-spread conditions are permitted, even at Level 5. Evidently, targeted prevention in specific locations is the only way to significantly reduce new cases.

In Ireland, a drop in cases coincided with warmer temperatures when activity moved outside and buildings were ventilated freely. Recent household infections have been attributed to people disregarding the rules, but perhaps it was the weather that changed rather than their behaviour? In the absence of public health warnings, most people are simply unaware that opening windows can reduce or eliminate the virus spread in their homes and cars.

Conversely, in meat plants ventilation is reduced in summer when air is recirculated to operate at 10 degrees. Research from Germany confirms that airborne virus in these conditions infected workers as far as 8m apart. At another super-spread event in Washington, one person at a choir practice infected 52 of 61 others, two of whom died. Increasing ventilation and shortening the event would likely have halved the infections. It is known that singing, shouting, exercising and even talking can increase the virus in the air.


Spread is airborne

It is now believed, from these and other cases, that most spread is airborne, that there is no safe distance in a poorly ventilated room and that conditions can move from low- to high-risk within 15 minutes.

Recent research spans environmental engineering, particle physics and virology and points back to how Ireland beat tuberculosis with space, sunlight and fresh air. In the last century disease – Spanish Flu and TB – changed the way that buildings were designed and it will again now.

Yet, while international research is providing answers, we still have “rules of thumb” for two-metre distancing and two-hour duration, now understood to be unsafe oversimplification. Without a science-base, these rules are resulting in unknowing high-risk behaviour on the one hand, and unnecessary social isolation and business closures on the other.
Higher indoors

All along, building ventilation has been hiding in plain sight in different rules for indoors and out. Covid-19 is a respiratory virus, it is caught from breathing. In the open air, the virus is diluted and dispersed in the air, but inside, aerosols, the particles small enough to remain in the air, can linger, spread and build up to dangerous levels, similar to cigarette smoke. Ventilation is key to prevention because the risk of breathing in Covid-19 is 20 times higher indoors.

Air quality in buildings can be measured, managed and monitored, so improving ventilation reduces or eliminates these risks.

Active and targeted prevention of specific high-risk conditions, such as in meat plants, direct provision, overcrowded housing and schools is key to both keeping buildings open and people out of hospital, without compromising the health services or the economy.

Last February, Japan identified ventilation as critically important to preventing conditions for super-spread. Public health advised avoiding the 3 Cs “closed spaces, crowded places, and close-contact settings”. With a population of 126 million, the total number of deaths from Covid-19 in Japan is just 1,578 which is lower than in Ireland with a population of five million, with 1,806 mortalities.
Critical weapon

Comparisons between countries, are very difficult but the arguments in favour of ventilation as a critical weapon are compelling, and now confirmed by public health advice in other countries. What will it cost in lives and businesses for Ireland to wait for more proof, particularly when fresh air is free?

The HSE is soon to employ 500 contact-tracers to track future Covid-19 patients, asking where they went and who they met. But, how many people are employed to look at our houses and buildings to prevent tens of thousands of people becoming infected in the first place?

Escalation of this pandemic is not inevitable. Science-based rules, targeted public health advice, risk assessments and enforcement are critical now, not loose rules of thumb.

There is little cost in moving outside, spreading out into safer rooms, avoiding crowds, re-setting ventilation systems, and opening windows.

Clean air is far more important than clean hands.

Orla Hegarty is assistant professor at the School of Architecture UCD


R


20 Jan 21 - 01:48 PM (#4088962)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: pattyClink

Thanks, Sandman. I'm seeing a lot of people not 'getting' that ventilation is a really big deal; busy scrubbing doorhandles and taking their temp, while foraying into poorly ventilated indoor venues where the virus is lurking. Next issue, we have no process to 'rate' buildings as to their safety.


23 Jan 21 - 10:59 AM (#4089496)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

There are a lot of individual obituary threads for musical people who have died of COVID-19. One non-musical but very well known, at least in the US, is talk show host Larry King.

    Larry King, the longtime CNN host who became an icon through his interviews with countless newsmakers and his sartorial sensibilities, has died. He was 87.

    His son, Chance, confirmed King's death Saturday morning.

    King hosted "Larry King Live" on CNN for over 25 years, interviewing presidential candidates, celebrities, athletes, movie stars and everyday people. He retired in 2010 after taping more than 6,000 episodes of the show.

    A statement was posted on his verified Facebook announcing his passing.

    "With profound sadness, Ora Media announces the death of our co-founder, host and friend Larry King, who passed away this morning at age 87 at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles," the statement said. "For 63 years and across the platforms of radio, television and digital media, Larry's many thousands of interviews, awards, and global acclaim stand as a testament to his unique and lasting talent as a broadcaster."

    The statement did not give a cause of death.


He was hospitalized and in the ICU in recent days, but he had a number of health issues over the years. I suspect the conclusion will be that his death was COVID-related.


24 Jan 21 - 09:23 AM (#4089692)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

I already read it was.


29 Jan 21 - 10:19 AM (#4090500)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Attack of the varient viral mutants VVM is well underway.
The great city of London is now added to apoint of origin story like Wuhan. Maybe in came from Feltwell in Norwich or Gravesend
Some doctors are more concerned about the English varient than all the others. My question is will the new varients continue like the flu on an ongoing annual basis?


29 Jan 21 - 10:27 AM (#4090504)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Mrs Bonzo had the Oxford jab this afternoon, and also a nice little outing in the back of the car for our greyhound who is housebound at the moment with a nasty skin infection - rear left leg heavily bandaged and she has to wear a big cone to prevent licking the bandage.


30 Jan 21 - 09:56 AM (#4090669)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

Donuel:
They also have found that covid 19 is 90% likely to be lab produced and from a scientific point of view was never a conspiracy theory but a reasoned finding
We can only guess at your 'sources' (if any) as you provide no links.
However:
A research paper claiming to prove that the coronavirus was cooked up in a laboratory has been widely dismissed by mainstream scientists.

The paper, which was posted online earlier this week and hasn’t been peer reviewed, says that “unusual features” of the virus’s genome suggest “sophisticated laboratory modification rather than natural evolution”. The authors allege that the modification of one or more bat viruses was carried out in a Chinese government laboratory in Wuhan.

From New Scientist, September 2020



This response to several now-deleted COVID-19 conspiracy theory posts and responses is left because it provides a useful link. ---mudelf


30 Jan 21 - 11:17 AM (#4090684)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Thats the spirit Nigel - not that you can agree with me BUT that a truthful post regarding scientific findings, unencumbered with political spin or orthodox dogma, can be more helpful than believing a convenient lie.
Orthodoxy is a finding plus excessive time. Its time to take a critical look at all the facts assembled over a year. Critical thinking is easy when you don't care how it reflects on us or feel any need to sugar coat a damn thing.

Perhaps you even looked up the evolutionary virologist scientists I mentioned earlier.


30 Jan 21 - 11:40 AM (#4090688)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Donny - Life is too stressful;
and spare time is too limited
to be wasted constantly trying to make sense of your lengthy self indulgent posts...

Please try to communicate more effectively,
with consideration for any of us struggling
to search for the meaningful gems in your stream of consciousness drivel...


30 Jan 21 - 05:52 PM (#4090751)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Thompson

pattyClink - While ventilation is important, another factor that's recently been recognised is that humidity is death to the little scamps. Don't let your home get too dried out. (I don't know how to measure humidity, unfortunately, but reckon that giving the washing a final dry on racks and radiators probably helps.)
bonzo3legs - Sympathies for the greyhound. I used to have a dog that had big trouble with eczema and it turned out to be mainly triggered by milk. My current adored-one gets diarrhoea from milk.


31 Jan 21 - 10:52 AM (#4090840)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Science by press release is not science. But its all most of us have.
Varients do have changed binding sites that makes original vaccines less effective.


31 Jan 21 - 01:49 PM (#4090857)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

Captain Tom Moore now has Covid. He was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and a few days later it was confirmed he now has Covid too.
The man is 100, and was knighted by the Queen for his indomitable efforts to walk around his residence to raise money for the NHS.
So ironic.


31 Jan 21 - 01:54 PM (#4090858)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

"Varients do have changed binding sites that makes original vaccines less effective."

This is fake news. You absolutely have to STOP doing this.


31 Jan 21 - 03:45 PM (#4090871)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

I've just learned that Captain (SIR!) Tom Moore was actually vaccinated, which goes to show that one can still contract the virus after having the jab. Hopefully however this may make his illness less severe.


31 Jan 21 - 04:00 PM (#4090873)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick

I've just learned that Captain (SIR!) Tom Moore was actually vaccinated,


The BBC are reporting that he had not yet received the vaccine because of the medication he was on for pneumonia. He is not in intensive care so, hopefully, he may recover.

DC


31 Jan 21 - 04:19 PM (#4090875)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

Ooops Doug, you're quite right, he hadn't received the vaccination. My mistake. I read it on Mumsnet, but the poster must have been misinformed.


31 Jan 21 - 06:42 PM (#4090888)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn

Also depends when he was vaccinated? It doesn't give you instant protection. The protection builds over a couple of weeks or so. So I take it someone who only got the vaccine say a few days ago would be susceptible. Plus of course the efficacy is not 100% in any of the vaccines.


31 Jan 21 - 07:11 PM (#4090895)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Yeah, right, Sen, misinformed. Well done for clearing that one up. Here's the thing with me that pisses me off bigtime. There are two lots of people living round here near me, good friends for donkeys' years, who I like a lot, who suck in this kind of blatant misinformation and for whom it is bias confirmation, as they are already readily susceptible to conspiracy theories. They are easy and gullible recipients and the misinformation fed to them is put out lazily and with no evidence to support it. On the other hand, we who have to counter this nonsense have to work so bloody hard to dig out the evidence in order to be persuasive enough to negate it. It is not a level playing field. What I'm saying, for example, is that some git on Mumsnet is implying that the vaccine doesn't work because Capt.Tom has been vaccinated but still got infected. Fake news. We have someone here saying that vaccines are less effective against new variants (I tried to spell that last word correctly). Fake news. I'm getting bloody sick of it, to be honest. I'm biased because I have that stupid uphill battle with the nice people round here who I know. But please let's not see Mudcat get infested with this stuff. Please?

And best wishes to the admirable Capt. Tom, a man I admire greatly.


01 Feb 21 - 07:52 AM (#4090937)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick

..... that some git on Mumsnet is implying that the vaccine doesn't work because Capt.Tom has been vaccinated but still got infected.


Be careful, Steve, that you you don't fall in to the trap yourself, of reading what you want to read rather than what is actually written. A poster here repeated a piece of misinformation, taken from Mumsnet, that Capt. Sir Tom had been vaccinated. The conclusion that

"..... that one can still contract the virus after having the jab"

May have come from Mumsnet but, equally, may have Senoufou's own opinion.

Wherever that conclusion came from, it doesn't necessarily follow that it is implying that the vaccine doesn't work. It may have been expressing a note of caution that, since none of the vaccines claim to be 100% effective, vaccination does not make us invincible and that mask/distance/hygiene precautions should still be followed.


01 Feb 21 - 08:24 AM (#4090945)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

My take on Capt. Tom becoming infected,
is that even at his level of importance, frailty, and protection,
someone has been too bloody careless...???

Is a hasty investigation being conducted...?????


01 Feb 21 - 11:11 AM (#4090965)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage


"Varients do have changed binding sites that makes original vaccines less effective."

This is fake news. You absolutely have to STOP doing this.


Sorry, Steve, but if you've been listening to people talk about how the vaccine evolves, that is exactly what is happening. The way these things bind, the part of the virus shell that does this part, has changed, making them "stickier" and harder to eradicate with a vaccine or various treatments so far attempted. And it means several of the vaccines (Johnson & Johnson, in particular) are less effective.


01 Feb 21 - 11:24 AM (#4090969)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Maggie, please read his completely unqualified sentence again. Not for the first time your criticism of me is out of order.


01 Feb 21 - 11:38 AM (#4090971)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Well, Doug, the Mumsnet thread was deleted with a message from headquarters that a thread speculating about Captain Tom is inappropriate. But you can read enough from the results from googling "Mumsnet Captain Tom Vaccination" to see that there was indeed much misinformation and unwarranted speculation going on, with implications that the vaccine (which he hadn't had) was ineffective. Always worth a double-check before adopting attack mode.


01 Feb 21 - 11:52 AM (#4090973)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

And I've said this before and I'll say it again. Jumping on snippets of "information," especially those coming from journalists who are after scoops, taking them out of context and sounding alarms, is a practice that's rife all over the internet and we should squash it firmly when it rears its ugly head on Mudcat. The work on the efficacy of all the current vaccines in the face of variants of the virus is ongoing and is in its infancy still, relatively speaking. It takes time to amass sufficient field data on this, and some of the vaccines are hardly out of the starting block, and some of the variants are very new, or at least newly-discovered. We need to to be patient and we need to be sceptical about sources until we have checked, checked and checked again. Sweeping statements about vaccines (plural) being less effective, etc., of the kind we've seen here say a lot more about their propagators than they do about the science.


01 Feb 21 - 12:02 PM (#4090977)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

So Steve you are not interested in truth as much as condeming my sentences. I am in favor of your freedom but not when you attack truth. For that, a hard rains a gonna fall.
If your goal is to hurt me, its never gonna happen. (unless you visit)
Which would you prefer:
To never read my words again.
OR
Be pain free from all your conditions for the rest of your life.


01 Feb 21 - 12:19 PM (#4090978)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I'm interested in facts. On this topic it's vital that we avoid propagating misinformation in the guise of facts. And if we don't yet know all the facts to sufficiently support a claim, then that claim should remain under wraps. If we post speculation we should be crystal clear with our caveats that we are indeed posting speculation. It also helps if we can stay cool.


01 Feb 21 - 12:24 PM (#4090979)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Ok interesting article here on Australia&s response. My Tazzie sister's life is normal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/01/world/australia/perth-lockdown.html

Blicky.


01 Feb 21 - 12:31 PM (#4090981)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick

I am surprised that you see that as 'attack mode', Steve.

I tried Googling "Mumsnet Captain Tom Vaccination" but all I got was an opening page with a couple of messages wishing him well and subsequent pages, each with a message saying that the thread had been deleted. The message acknowledged that the majority of posters were wishing him well, but said that posts speculating on his health or other aspects did not seem to be in the spirit of the site right now.

There was nothing that I could find that told me anything about discussion on the effectiveness of the vaccine. Perhaps you could provide a link?

DC


01 Feb 21 - 12:59 PM (#4090983)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

No I can't. The two earlier threads were deleted, but I was able to see the first couple of lines of a few posts when I googled as I told you, which were indicating, or criticising, speculation about him and his vaccine. Maybe you could try that, or maybe it's too late. The third thread, which I've read but which is now being deleted *as I understand it), avoided mention of the vaccine (maybe because there was so much dispute in the first two threads, who knows, and that it is now clear that the efficacy of the vaccine is irrelevant to discussions about Tom).

Here's the Mumsnet HQ message that announced the deletion of the third thread:

" YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet (MNHQ)    Mon 01-Feb-21 17:30:33

Hello everyone. We are getting a lot of reports about this thread. As several posts have been deleted and many more are continuing to break our Talk Guidelines, we have decided to delete it now as it's really not making anyone look good at this stage."

I completely agree with that sentiment. I've said more than once that speculation put up as fact, sweeping statements and scaremongering in discussions about coronavirus are not only harmful but they also bring this website into disrepute. "Not making anyone look good," right?


01 Feb 21 - 01:13 PM (#4090984)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

"Which would you prefer:
To never read my words again.
OR
Be pain free from all your conditions for the rest of your life.
"

I'd prefer you to be more disciplined & considerate,
and resist persistently swamping serious threads
with your excessive egotistical indulgences.

It's tiresome having to wade through it all
every time I find a few spare minutes
to catch up on these debates..

Try better at communicating your points more concisely...

Not every thread needs to be "The Donuel Show"...!!!


01 Feb 21 - 06:37 PM (#4091014)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Your comic relief is tolerated pfr but your contribution to pandemic relief is poor or absent.


01 Feb 21 - 07:50 PM (#4091030)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

The third Mumsnet "Tom" thread was duly deleted but there's yet another one running now. There's a lot of unjustified speculation about the holiday he took in December and about his family and what's happening to him in hospital, though there a lot of holding-back going on that wasn't there before. I think we can do better.


01 Feb 21 - 08:42 PM (#4091036)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Apropos of the effectiveness of the various vaccines against new variants, here's what the Health Editor of BBC News Online posted today. Not the last word, just a single source, but far more sober, sane and balanced than some of the more hysterical stuff flying around. Please hang on the words and reflect that I've refrained from highlighting what I thought are the most germane points (I was tempted, but we can all read).

I'd also add that vaccines that appear to lose efficacy can relatively easily be tweaked in a fairly short time. No panic, no amateur dramatics needed, just patience and intelligent concern. Once we've had the vaccine we should thank a scientist, and a good way of doing that is to show enough respect to look their stuff up before sounding off with sweeping statements and flailing around in all directions.

All viruses, including the one that causes Covid-19, constantly mutate into new versions or variants.

These tiny genetic changes happen as the virus makes new copies of itself to spread and thrive.

Most are inconsequential, and a few can even be harmful to the virus's survival, but some variants can make the virus more infectious or threatening to the host - humans.

There are now many thousands of variants of the pandemic virus circulating. But experts are concerned about the South African variant, or 501.V2.

Is it more dangerous?
There is no evidence that the South Africa variant causes more serious illness for the vast majority of people who become infected.

As with the original version, the risk is highest for people who are elderly or have significant underlying health conditions.

But there are concerns it can spread more readily and vaccines may not work quite as well against it.

What do experts say?
The South African variant carries a mutation called E484K, among others.

It's different to the recently discovered UK or Kent variant that scientists have also been studying in the UK.

Both variants appear to be more contagious, which is a problem because tougher restrictions on society may be needed to control the spread.

While changes in the new UK variant are unlikely to harm the effectiveness of current vaccines, there is a chance those in the South African variant may do so to some extent, say scientists.

It is too soon to say for sure, or by how much, until more tests are completed, although it is extremely unlikely the mutations would render vaccines useless.

Scientists have tested the Pfizer Covid vaccine against one of the mutations found in the South African variant, called N501Y, using blood samples from 20 people.

In that preliminary study, vaccination appeared to work against the mutated virus.

More studies are needed though.


01 Feb 21 - 08:51 PM (#4091038)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic

Considering the title of this thread is specifically related to 'news' it invites folks to reproduce within thread things that pass for news. Unfortunately 'news' is not facts.

Two quotes, one by a famous guy, one not:

In a documentary about himself and his life, physicist Richard Feynman said: "I know how hard it is to actually KNOW something."

And this guy I knew who was a project runner on the Alaska Pipeline was being briefed while walking through a facility and remarked to the guy: "Is this relevant or is it just information?"

Listening to Dr. Fauci I am constantly reminded that the experts and researchers on the frontiers of medicine are still learning about this particular incarnation of coronavirus. That means the reactions and treatments of the disease are also subject to change including the vaccines. To date Dr. Fauci has been consistent to get vaccinated because that limits transmission and transmission limits the spread of mutations in the virus.


01 Feb 21 - 09:40 PM (#4091047)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I think that what you say about Dr Fauci chimes very well with the general tenor of my BBC piece. "Experts" are frequently derided, and often, when invoked generically, are the victims of weasel wordery, but in this pandemic we have really needed the real experts to calm us all down. They do that best by telling us how little we actually know so far and by being measured in their cautions to us. What we don't need is scary non-experts, who abound, who think they own the truth when in reality they simply want to make themselves stand out from the worried crowd, ending up worrying the crowd even more - if we let them...


01 Feb 21 - 09:40 PM (#4091048)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

"Your comic relief is tolerated pfr but your contribution to pandemic relief is poor or absent."

That's an improvement..

Please try to continue restraining yourself to quickly read and discounted
snappy one-liners like this..


Btw.. when you invent a proven to work miracle cure for covid,
then you might have earned the right to posture
as the superior 'Big I Am' of pandemic relief..

However, until then you are no more important here then any other BS poster
with a keyboard and an arse to sit on...

Also remember many more folks are much closer to death on the front line than you are..

Key workers and their families live in real daily fear..

For us, this is not just an intellectual academic game
for scoring ego points against forum rivals.


01 Feb 21 - 09:42 PM (#4091049)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Alleluia, Scrumpyshire bro...


02 Feb 21 - 03:24 AM (#4091061)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

Why should anyone shut up , fortunately we have free speech and we are also free to ignore others comments, and make our own decisions.
Further more i do not think a TD should be sacked for saying the virus is no worse than the flu. I may disagree with him or i may not ,but starting to sack people for having a different opinion is a step towards Fascism and Totalitarinism, People are turning on each other .But the fact health services have been run down and cannot cope with … See more


02 Feb 21 - 03:26 AM (#4091062)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

.But the fact health services have been run down and cannot cope with a pandemic is the fault of those who govern us.


02 Feb 21 - 04:46 AM (#4091067)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

TD?

I've done an internet search, and looked down through fifty threads, but perhaps it was in a post that has been deleted. Could be 'truth denier' I suppose.


02 Feb 21 - 06:04 AM (#4091076)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

td is the irish equivalent of MP.What does TD mean in Ireland?
Teachta Dála
Deputy. Member of the Dáil; also known as a TD (Teachta Dála) Dáil Éireann. The Lower House of the Oireachtas; known as the Dáil for short. Dissolution.Jun 18, 2019


02 Feb 21 - 06:17 AM (#4091080)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I don't think anyone's telling anyone to shut up, Dick. Maybe suggesting that it would be a good idea to post with restraint and try to not say daft things... Suggesting being the operative word...


02 Feb 21 - 07:26 AM (#4091085)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Thompson

Jos, it's kind of embarrassing if people appear to be proud of their ignorance. If you don't know what TD stands for, and what its meaning is, just ask.


02 Feb 21 - 07:48 AM (#4091087)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

I'm not proud of my ignorance, just very frustrated. Often I just look things up and all becomes clear, but not on that occasion.
I know the words Taoiseach and Dáil Éireann, but hadn't ever come across Teachta Dála.


02 Feb 21 - 08:21 AM (#4091090)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

Steve , you have misunderstood me, i am not actually refrring to mudcat,
I am referring to what i have seen with my eyes here in ireland, and on the virtual world of facebook,
people in supermarkets accosting and verbally insulting non mask wearers., and getting so worked up that they get close and forget about the 2 meter rule,. the sensible thing is just to give non mask werers more than 2 meters, but to go up to them and shout in their face is stupid .
people on facebook who suggest that people who suggest that the virus is no worse than the flu should be fined[] i am surprised they have not suggested capital punishment.
it is simple, someone not wearing a mask in a building give them more room, problem solved .


02 Feb 21 - 08:33 AM (#4091091)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

The right to speak FREELY and have different opinions, is something that does not exist in totalitarian regime.
MP and TD,
have all sorts of opinions on abortion, capital punishment taking the vaccine, so what, I do not have to agree with them, just because they represent a constiuency,
but their right to freedom of speech is what distinguishes democracy from totalinarism


02 Feb 21 - 09:41 AM (#4091109)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

Well I seemed to have unleashed a furore of vituperative comments!
I merely wanted to express my concern for the admirable and brave gentleman, since he has had pneumonia and now Covid. I conveyed in good faith (since I read it on a post on Mumsnet) that he had had the vaccine. But I now know that he hasn't.
I do not believe that the vaccine does not protect one from the virus, I merely wondered how/why he had contracted it.
I am due to have my injection on Sunday at our local surgery.
My 'opinions' are generally rooted in Science and The Truth.
I am reasonably intelligent enough not to get enmeshed in Conspiracy Theories or ignorant suspicions.
I hope this clarifies my stance. So you can stop piling on!
Eliza


02 Feb 21 - 10:26 AM (#4091113)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

No-one's piling on, Senoufou. I actually congratulated you for clearing up the confusion, lest ye forget! Your post opened up another avenue for discussion, that's all. I learned quite a bit about Mumsnet while I was at it. A good few people over there could use a bit more steely focus!


02 Feb 21 - 10:49 AM (#4091115)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

I agree Steve that it's rather a mixed forum, but some of the threads are very funny and raise a laugh (much needed at the present time)
I don't post on there though (I'm not a 'Mum'!)
I don't know yet which vaccine I shall be given, but I just have to trust it will be as near 100% effective as possible. However, I'll still wear my mask when at the supermarket, and socially-distance myself.
Our village has had a few cases now, and one death. Very worrying and sad.


02 Feb 21 - 11:13 AM (#4091121)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Sadly, Captain Tom has just died. :-(


02 Feb 21 - 11:19 AM (#4091124)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

Rest In Peace Tom. A long life well-lived to the very end.


02 Feb 21 - 11:27 AM (#4091126)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

For the first time in six weeks I've just ventured more than four miles from my house (it has to be four miles because that's where the nearest big shop is!), all of ten miles to go to a country store to get my seed potatoes (was that allowed?). Paid a visit to the adjacent Waitrose while I was there. Pleased to say I wasn't stopped or remanded in custody. :-) Round here, there's no issue with mask compliance. I've never seen a shopper not wearing one. We're like that in the Westcountry. Keeping two metres apart and ignoring shop one-way systems is a different issue. That's apparently caused a good few spats in shops but so far I haven't reacted out loud. Biggest issue for us locals in these parts is second-home owners. They are simply not allowed to be here, but lots of them are, and the police, to their credit, respond quickly to complaints.


02 Feb 21 - 11:46 AM (#4091129)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

I live in a West country town where it is not too contentious
to claim objectively,
that we have a significantly larger population of ignorant arrogant chavs and scum..

(It's ok, I'm allowed to use these derogatory words, I could have been one of them if it wasn't for grammar school)

Hence a serious problem of non-compliance with masks, distancing, and use of sanitizer,
in and around town centre shops..

These are the people who have been and still are prime targets for malignant far right/libertarian internet influencers...


02 Feb 21 - 11:47 AM (#4091130)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Sir Tom Moore another COVID-19 victim.


03 Feb 21 - 08:13 AM (#4091232)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Ist jab arranged for Saturday afternoon!


03 Feb 21 - 12:58 PM (#4091294)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Yay bonzo.
I obviously get the impression that the UK is doing a better job with the pandemic than the US.
Unfortunately they caught a bad break with the mutation varient.

Cartoon of s guy watching the boob tube and visibly clutching his arm armchair; ...mutants of the original variants of the mutants of these varients of the....


03 Feb 21 - 02:10 PM (#4091308)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn

Depends what you mean by better job. I think our overall death rate is as bad, possibly even worse than the US, when you look at it per head of population. We do seem to be getting on well with vaccinating though!


03 Feb 21 - 05:33 PM (#4091338)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Yay Bonzo!


03 Feb 21 - 06:32 PM (#4091345)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Sometimes I think I'm a parrot. There is no need for any scaremongering over new variants or vaccines. There will be ups and downs and vital tweaks to be done and bulking-up of adapted vaccines to do. That's all within spec. The science is doing incredibly well. We were staring into the abyss a few months ago. That is no longer the case. So let's just cut out the doom-laden new-variant-yadayada statements and look to a better future, eh? Anyone who wants to stand out to be gloomily different, please do it in your own bedroom, along with your other private bedroom talents.


03 Feb 21 - 08:56 PM (#4091361)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Yes Sir, we live to obey your rules of redacted truth, Sir.
You sir and the headmaster have total dominion over our perception of truth sir. We live to obey sir. You are not a parrot sir. No kidding sir.

I have seen people panic over voter fraud and baby eating cannabals and even drink the Kool Aid of death so panic does exist sir.


thank you for protecting us from that kind of panic sir.


03 Feb 21 - 09:09 PM (#4091362)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

So you think there IS a need for scaremongering then?


04 Feb 21 - 08:01 AM (#4091405)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

Getting excited about having my jab on Sunday evening. But worried about why my husband hasn't been sent for. An elderly friend in our village said she asked the injecting person about her husband, and the lady offered to give him his jab then and there! Apparently, someone hadn't turned up so they had a 'spare' jab, which would spoil if not given within hours.
Maybe I can persuade the nurse to 'do' mu husband too. He's so at risk cleaning in a school and being black. (BAME, or black, Asian, Middle Eastern, are more vulnerable)


04 Feb 21 - 08:04 AM (#4091406)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

In spite of not thinking much about this clapping malarkey, I have to confess I did go outside yesterday evening and clap for Captain Sir Tom. Everyone else was out there too. I'm afraid it brought tears to my eyes. I thought about all those sad deaths, not just his. Tragic.


04 Feb 21 - 08:15 AM (#4091410)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

I loved that there was a national clap. And I love the phrase "national clap."

Meanwhile the CDC director said increasing data suggests the UK coronavirus variant may be deadlier than the original strain.


04 Feb 21 - 08:30 AM (#4091415)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Yes it is what mutations can do in the realm of evolutionary science.
The only acknowlegement and behavior change for me is following the recommendation of Dr. Fauci, is to wear TWO masks. I use an N 95 with a cloth mask over that in public. Pithy perhaps but erring on the side of caution.


04 Feb 21 - 10:25 AM (#4091435)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Here we go again. The evidence for the UK variant being "deadlier" is very limited and based on a small cohort. Maybe it isn't, maybe it is. By a bit. As for evolution, the trait that is being favourably selected for has nothing to do with "deadliness." It's changes in the spike protein which makes it easier for the virus to get into cells. In the larger scheme of things, a disease making itself more deadly is generally disadvantageous; if too many hosts are killed, or die too quickly (from the pathogen's point of view), then opportunities for its own dissemination become more limited. Not a good tactic. We need to avoid doom-laden posts, and the easiest way to do that is to ignore casual media snippets and dig deeper into the facts. And we are now in a context of very effective vaccines that stand a good chance of negating all this pessimism, something neither of you mentioned. I hope that was polite enough.


04 Feb 21 - 11:51 AM (#4091449)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

I forgot to mention that I'm having both jabs in part of the main stand at Crystal Palace Football Club, which has been given over to a vaccination centre.

Oddly enough, we received a huge backlog of mail this morning including invitations dated 22/01/21 for myself and 19/01/21 for Mrs Bonzo to have covid vaccinations - too late, Mrs Bonzo had her first jab a week ago. and she arranged mine on line 2 days ago!!


04 Feb 21 - 11:59 AM (#4091451)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn

Steve is right in that scientists were not happy when the PM announced that it was more deadly. It was a small amount of data and only suggested that it 'might' be more deadly - but also it 'might' not be.

Certainly doesn't seem to be showing so here in Scotland. Hospitalisation and infections in general are increased from the initial spring first wave of the pandemic. However the figures for those in intensive care here are less than they were in the first wave. The new variant is endemic here and does not appear to be causing more of the evry serious illnesses than before!!! Though of course they are also better at treating the condition now than they were initially.


04 Feb 21 - 12:02 PM (#4091453)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

"... I'm having both jabs in part of the main stand at Crystal Palace Football Club..."

I should ask them to do them in your arm if I were you...


04 Feb 21 - 02:08 PM (#4091476)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

More deadly because while it may not make people any sicker than the original SARS-CoV-2 (the same percentages without symptoms, with symptoms, and deaths) it will spread to more people so there will be a greater number in each group, meaning a greater number will die.

The weak spot in the US response now is the available number of vaccine doses, but the numbers that must also be considered the the number of doses sent around the world. Rich countries hogging the supply leave poorer countries much more vulnerable and allow for the further mutation of the gene that will eventually come back and bite everyone in the ass. There used to be a formula for the number of doses sent to poorer countries outside the US, but of course Trump trashed it along with the science committee that looked into pandemic issues. All of that has to be rebuilt quickly.


04 Feb 21 - 02:11 PM (#4091479)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

That is not what Mrrzy meant. What I said is the current position.


05 Feb 21 - 12:37 AM (#4091538)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

That is so last month—I don't know what month you and Allan are living in, but here in the US in February the strain from the UK is considered to be a big problem, along with the South African and Brazilian ones because they may spread faster and kill more people than the current main strain before enough people can be vaccinated. If it is just as deadly as the strain we have now, but it moves faster, then it WILL kill more people. (code typo fixed)


05 Feb 21 - 04:59 AM (#4091558)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Well this month there's a lot of optimism flying around here. The one thing the government has got right is the vaccine rollout. It seems that there's good news every day about the efficacy of vaccines too, even in the face of "new variants." Our grim numbers are going down fast, could be faster of course, the one fly in the ointment being the apparent greater transmissibility as nature selects variants with more effective spike proteins. We are getting better. That's so this month here. And it wasn't what Mrrzy was saying, was it?


05 Feb 21 - 08:38 AM (#4091581)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

NPR also reported today that it is likely that the number of people actually capable of transmiitting the virus is likely 10x higher than the reported number of cases.


05 Feb 21 - 09:11 AM (#4091585)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Thompson

The UK variant is apparently far, far more infections, and by the same token it's deadlier because it's infecting more people who are vulnerable. In Ireland it's now accounting for three out of every four cases.
And will this mean that "only those who would have died anyway" will die of it? Probably not. One sample figure snapped out of an Irish Times story today: "36 priests died in April last year at the height of the pandemic compared to 12 in 2019, eight in 2018 and 14 in 2017. Between March and August last year 135 priests died compared to 79 priests died in 2019 in the same six-month period." (The story is about the Health Service Executive doing a special drive to vaccinate elderly clerics, who are particularly hard hit.)


05 Feb 21 - 09:14 AM (#4091587)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Charmion

Here in Ontario, I don't think I have a hope of getting jabbed before late summer, although I'm 66 years old and asthmatic. Both the federal and provincial governments crank out anodyne propaganda while the news media publish scare stories
about vaccine supply. The only part of the so-called plan that inspires confidence is that isolated aboriginal communities are high in the priority list, presumably because of their abysmal housing situation (no place to quarantine anyone) and lack of health-care personnel and facilities.

Okay, maybe I'll go and count my blessings again. I'm 66, asthmatic but otherwise healthy, and quartered in a comfortable, warm, dry, uncrowded house located in a city that has not only a hospital, but also an intensive-care unit and ambulance service.

But I still think at least two levels of government are trying hard to snatch a cock-up from the jaws of success.


05 Feb 21 - 09:17 AM (#4091588)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Change of plan - our GP surgery telephoned yesterday evening inviting me to have covid vaccine which is just 5 minutes drive away with easy parking compared with 30 minutes drive and difficult parking at Crystal Palace, so arranged for Tuesday and appointment at Crystal Palace FC cancelled.


05 Feb 21 - 09:28 AM (#4091590)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Charmion

According to CTV News,
the British and South African variant strains of the virus have surfaced in Canada, but the numbers so far are small -- fewer than 300 cases. The Brazilian version has yet to arrive.

But who's being tested? Compulsory testing and quarantine of people arriving at airports began only a few days ago, and road traffic continues to flow over the Canada-US border. Many major outbreaks are linked to warehouse complexes and "fulfillment" centres, and that's no coincidence.

So staying home is still very much a thing well into the foreseeable future.


05 Feb 21 - 10:37 AM (#4091604)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

The science is telling us that the UK variant is 30-70% more catching. Evidence for the mutation causing more serious illness is very thin. Of course, if it's more catching it will infect more people and will kill proportionately more people. That's how the facts and figures go. The context in the UK, and I'm not wanting to sound smug, is our very good vaccine rollout, so the above numbers game will get more and more sidelined. In a couple of weeks' time almost all in the most vulnerable groups will have been vaccinated, their first jab at least, and the stats for first jab alone providing good protection look optimistic. I'm three months too young to be in those cohorts, but I won't have to wait long. Mrs Steve is getting done tomorrow. It's in the same town as Waitrose, so I can legitimately drive the ten miles to take her there and do the shopping. :-)


05 Feb 21 - 11:11 AM (#4091619)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

The code in my last post was wrong and dropped out the rest of the statement:

That is so last month—I don't know what month you and Allan are living in, but here in the US in February the strain from the UK is considered to be a big problem, along with the South African and Brazilian ones because they may spread faster and kill more people than the current main strain before enough people can be vaccinated. If it is just as deadly as the strain we have now, but it moves faster, then it WILL kill more people.


05 Feb 21 - 11:58 AM (#4091630)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

There's a long article in the NY Times about why political entities in the US aren't doing a better job of getting vaccines out. They forget that just two weeks ago we got a new president after the last one deliberately made things complicated by trying to deny some states, and by not attempting, some could say even blocking, a national policy for vaccination. I see by the chart on the front page of the Times that my county is still at extremely high risk, with average of 1,721 new cases reported each day. We're watching the sausage be made before our eyes; instead of looking away, we need to carefully do what we can to help.

My county has an online form for volunteering to help with the COVID response, so once my second dose has had enough time to become totally effective, I'll go ahead and volunteer.


05 Feb 21 - 12:49 PM (#4091638)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Thompson

Someone was asking about extra deaths in Ireland. There's someone tracking rip.ie in which most, but not all, death notices appear (many people don't put notices in the papers, or on rip.ie) and they were about 50 a day extra notices in April, at our peak, and about the same this month in this second peak. That's a huge number of extra deaths in a country with a population under 5 million.


05 Feb 21 - 04:00 PM (#4091659)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Your problem is that your vaccination programme isn't up to speed as yet. Otherwise, what you say is correct (I'm tempted to say "at last," but I like you too much! ) ;-)


05 Feb 21 - 06:27 PM (#4091681)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

And that was to Maggie's 11.11 job! :-)


05 Feb 21 - 06:46 PM (#4091684)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn

Re about what month I am living in. No-one suggested it wasn't a problem that the variant is more infectious. The suggestion was that it is more deadly. That is that it is more deadly to any individual who has it than the old varient was. As Steve says the evidence for that is very flimsy and the PM was criticised by scientists for blurting it out. Re my comments about people in intensive care in Scotland. That is fact. The new varient is endemic here and more people were infected, and more were hospitalised than last spring. However less people ended up in intensive care here. About 75% to 80% compared to the Spring. Here in the Borders we went from Level 1 with about 35 cases per 100,000 to about 400 cases per 100,000 in a short time. However the same social distancing measures work on this varient and we have it back down to about 65 again. All the time the vaccine is rolling out.


05 Feb 21 - 07:19 PM (#4091685)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Cheers Allan. We live in a country with the best vaccine rollout at the moment. That doesn't mean that we should feel either smug or that we should wish to indulge in schadenfreude. It means that, having been one of the worst-hit countries on earth, we are at last seeing the light. Early days still. For the last couple of days I've heard that every signal is positive. Well, perhaps we're not quite there with the numbers of new infections and the numbers in hospital, but we're winning, slowly. Our context should always be the world situation, and that is not good and it should dampen our optimism. But the vaccines are great and that's where we should place our hope. There's a lot of gloomy negativity in this thread. That's entirely understandable in countries that are still struggling. But we have to live in hope, and press our governnents to do the right thing. I'm looking forward to a normal barbecue summer, dammit.


05 Feb 21 - 07:57 PM (#4091694)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn

I can hardly believe that about 25,000 or so are to attend the Superbowl. Think of all the people travelling and mixing for no necessary reason. In the spring we learned our lesson here in the Borders. Again they got on top of it quickly but were initially the highest infection rate in Scotland. This is a rugby area and many folk went to Italy for the game. Then down to Cardiff and that game wasn't cancelled until most of the Scots were down there. It was blamed for much of the initial surge. One of my friend's uncles contracted it along with some of his friends. He died. They have no proof but were convinced they contracted it on the Cardiff trip.


06 Feb 21 - 03:18 PM (#4091831)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: keberoxu

I concur, Allan.
I'm not so gaga for Tom Brady and the Gronk
that I would attend a super-spreader event to watch them.

I figure reason doesn't even enter into doing such a thing,
it must be driven by sentiment and emotion.


16 Feb 21 - 12:20 PM (#4093406)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Just been out to the Post Office.
Hardly anyone bothering to wear masks..

Then I realised, the streets from my home to town and back
reeked of skunk smoke;
which is normal round here..

Maybe this is something for health scientists to research,
perhaps why the South West has lower infection rates...???

Are most of the tiny covids floating in the air around us
getting too stoned to be bothered infecting us...???


16 Feb 21 - 02:33 PM (#4093421)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

Looks like British pubs are done for.

they can't avoid spreading it


16 Feb 21 - 04:20 PM (#4093441)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

I've been rather worried at the sight of quite a few people in supermarkets not wearing a mask. I know they're 'exempt' but surely they present a risk and should get someone else to obtain their food for them?
We were stopped at the door of a Tesco and challenged for being two people together, in spite of being well-masked. I explained that I have a heart condition and need my husband to lift things and push the trolley. He needs me to translate and direct the purchases as his English is a bit dodgy, so we were allowed in. But non-mask wearers are far more risky I would have thought?


16 Feb 21 - 04:32 PM (#4093443)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick

With the availability of clear visors which sit on a headband and cover the whole face without blocking the airway, as an alternative to masks over the mouth and nose, I can't see the need for exemptions on medical grounds.

DC


16 Feb 21 - 05:09 PM (#4093444)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

We've seen nothing but full mask compliance in Bude and Launceston.


04 Mar 21 - 11:40 AM (#4096019)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Aparently blood groups are back in the mix, with A being at higher risk after all, which is what they said at first then backed off from.


04 Mar 21 - 12:28 PM (#4096029)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

The study that pointed the finger at blood group A was carried out in Vancouver on 95 patients already critically ill. Group A patients were more likely to need ventilation.

95.

These people were already victims of the virus, so that study had nothing to do with the risk of getting infected. I submit that there was enough there for a hypothesis, nowhere near enough to reach a science-informed conclusion.

The other study, a survey of people in Denmark, showed that people in the study who were group O appeared to be less likely to become infected. Other blood groups showed no differences.

I wasn't able to find the stats for these studies, and I have to cook the tea in a minute.

Neither study informs the desirability or otherwise of getting vaccinated. They are of passing interest. As Mrs Steve is A+, I'll pass it on (she gave blood this morning, as it happens). I guarantee that no eyebrow will be raised. As for me, I'm a Tony Hancockian AB negative, but I don't brag about it. Nobody wants my blood...


05 Mar 21 - 06:01 AM (#4096124)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

In the US culture wars against virus protection, the Biden response to the pro virus efforts by the Texas govenor has politizied of all things the Neanderthals. Along with the cave men of antiquity, Transgender Mr. Mr. Potato head and Dr. Seuess have now entered the culture war faith based fray.


07 Mar 21 - 02:16 PM (#4096518)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

From Bloomberg Opinion: How Covid's Toll Compares With Other Things That Kill Us

Stacking up the disease's impact on young and old against other causes of death in the U.S., including influenza, heart disease, car accidents and drownings.

Over the past year the death toll from Covid-19 has been compared to deaths from lots of other causes, ranging from seasonal influenza to war to heart disease to car accidents to swimming-pool drownings.

At 500,000 and counting, U.S. Covid fatalities are now a lot higher than annual deaths from most of those other things. They’re also much higher than any short-term infectious-disease outbreak since the 1918 influenza pandemic, which killed an estimated 675,000 people in the U.S., the proportionate equivalent of 2.2 million in today’s more-populous country. The 1957-1958 influenza pandemic killed an estimated 116,000, the equivalent of 223,000 today. HIV/AIDS has killed an estimated 700,000 Americans, but over four decades.

The overall number isn’t the whole story. Eighty-one percent of U.S. Covid fatalities have been people 65 and older. There’s nothing unusual about this age profile — in fact, the different age groups’ share of Covid deaths is strikingly similar to their share of deaths, period.


There are lots of tables for comparison.


08 Mar 21 - 11:38 AM (#4096650)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

https://www.nih.gov/sites/default/files/research-training/initiatives/activ/2020_NIH_Antiviral_Summit_Report_508.pdf

This info is about antiviral therapeutics that some people may need for years.

New rules by CDC regarding returning to pre pandemic behavior based on who is and is not vaccinated. https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-guidance-what-can-covid-19-vaccinated-people-do-2021-3


09 Mar 21 - 02:44 AM (#4096773)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mr Red

I can't re-find the Youtube video on the fact that H1N1 almost not circulating during COVID. But there is one out there if you can find the search terms.

Basically the different families of human virus don't co-exist in one body. Maybe not totally true, but for most healthy and many unhealthy people that would be the case. The statistics are fuzzy at the population level because of the distancing measures, but in one body the evidence is clear. H1N1 is not a problem at the moment, and the research, such as it is, has not come up with firm conclusions.

Interferons in the nose generated during a viral attack that is well under way may be too much for a smaller viral load in its initial stages, is one postulation. Or maybe like plants secreting unctuous stuff to deter competition, who nose? (sic).

no, I don't know what they are either!


09 Mar 21 - 06:32 AM (#4096798)
Subject: BS: So much Good News!
From: Donuel

Good Grief there is so much good news it feels alien. However guarded there is so much change this month that hope feels giddy with promise.
What can be done will be done outside be it music, ball games or friends and family reunion. Gigs, cheers and hugs to all.
After being darkest before the dawn here comes the sun, vaccine relief and good times.


09 Mar 21 - 09:05 AM (#4096824)
Subject: RE: BS: So much Good News!
From: Nigel Parsons

Hedgehoppers Anonymous:

It's good news week
Someone's dropped a bomb somewhere
Contaminating atmosphere
And blackening the sky

It's good news week
Someone's found a way to give
The rotting dead a will to live
Go on and never die

Have you heard the news
What did it say?
Who's won that race?
What's the weather like today?

It's good news week
Families shake the need for gold
By stimulating birth control
We're wanting less to eat

It's good news week
Doctors finding many ways
Of wrapping brains on metal trays
To keep us from the heat

It's good news week
Families shake the need for gold
By stimulating birth control
We're wanting less to eat
It's good news week

Doctors finding many ways
Of wrapping brains on metal trays
To keep us from the heat
To keep us from the heat
To keep us from the heat


09 Mar 21 - 10:30 AM (#4096832)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Yesterday the CDC said that fully vaccinated adults may, beginning two weeks after the second shot, gather indoors without masks or social distancing. And may gather with low-probability to infection people like small children. When out in public still wear masks and still stay socially distant.

CDC Says It's Safe For Vaccinated People To Do These Activities

In Texas, after tomorrow (March 10), all of that is a big crap shoot. The Governor lifted all of the restrictions on people, so those who are still being cautious need to do so while avoiding people who aren't being cautious. And look: it's time for Colleges and Universities to have Spring Break. Southern beaches are a classic destination so Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, and Texas, look out.


09 Mar 21 - 01:55 PM (#4096875)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Good news on the financial Covid relief bill is promising as well as Biden's full speed ahead with the vaccination delivery.

Nigel is your brain collection large?? Tin foil and metal trays do not help preserve or control excess heat from degrading brains. What you do in the field is use a small kit with syringes and some basic solution reagents You can then go in and anesthetize the animal and set up a little field station to embalm the brain in formaldehyde right there. Gycerine and sodium benzoate in a zip lock baggie with no air also works in a pinch. ;^)


11 Mar 21 - 12:33 PM (#4097160)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

8.4 million Americans are long haulers.


11 Mar 21 - 06:27 PM (#4097214)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Here is a fascinating look at covid denial, from 6 months' of MIT listening in on them online.


11 Mar 21 - 07:14 PM (#4097219)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Almost all initial new introduction of knowledge is greeted with denial.
We are hard wired with some protection to the lie but repitition breaks down that denial surpringly quickly.


12 Mar 21 - 03:55 AM (#4097256)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mr Red

I bumped into a local ceilidhnaut last week and we chatted about the dance possibilities (mostly lack of) and as we parted she handed me a broadsheet called "the Light" (a truthpaper) - politely taking it and secreting it in my knapsack. There was a hint of evangelical religion about it, but the evengel was anti-vax & paranoia about mendacious Gov statistics (OK, but I prefer healthy sceptisism on Gov offerings). Re: people dying after vaccination, ignoring that statistically/law of averages there are going to be some no matter what.

Britain has its fair share of AltFactsers but it is hard to see people you know being so misguided in the logic department. And unable to even offer more than "Well I have been shot and I didn't fall over" with a smile on my face.


12 Mar 21 - 04:52 AM (#4097261)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

There are as many as THREE direct anti viral therapeutic medicines (anti body) that will save a patient from death ONLY IF THEY ARE ADMINISTERED IN TIME.

however they do not not have them for the varints yet.


12 Mar 21 - 06:25 AM (#4097277)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Do tell us more.


12 Mar 21 - 11:55 AM (#4097318)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

This was discussed by Anthony Fauci on The Rachel Maddow Show last night. He said they're only effective if they are administered very early. The problem is that they require an IV setup and the research now is to render these drugs into more easily administered forms. The best and easiest would be a pill to take by mouth as soon as possible, but he said it looks like the companies are aiming at intramuscular or sub-cutaneous administration as a shot. But he kept going back to the early testing being needed to administer these treatments. They only have snippets of the program on the Maddow Blog, but you may find the bit I'm talking about. (Her regular program is available over cable or online services.)


04 Apr 21 - 09:45 AM (#4100723)
Subject: BS: Covid passport
From: Bonzo3legs

Covid passports are an excellent idea, of course they are bound to be disliked by people who have something to hide!!


04 Apr 21 - 11:14 AM (#4100743)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I don't agree with you. If and when we get case numbers very low (we live in hope, keeping a wary eye on Europe's third wave) we won't need them. By then, the only role of vaccine passports would be to nobble vaccine deniers. I don't like vaccine deniers but I don't want the government to enact laws that are matters of somebody's principle rather than matters of pragmatism. It is not against the law to refuse a vaccine, and passports would discriminate against people who are not lawbreakers. They would also discriminate against people who, for one reason or another, are fearful of the vaccines. We already know that there is a large disparity in proportions between the vaccine-worried in white and black communities, for all sorts of reasons. Vaccine passports would readily be seen as carrying racist connotations. On top of all this, it would be unconscionable to introduce them before everyone has been offered a vaccine. We are a long way from that aspiration at the moment and it's looking like it'll take a lot longer than the government's promised deadlines.


04 Apr 21 - 05:32 PM (#4100783)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

But it has has taken an incredibly short period of time to vaccinate 30 million adults. I would not want to sit next to an unvaccinated lady or man at a gig, in the cinema or theatre.


05 Apr 21 - 03:57 AM (#4100819)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

I'm pleased to see that the UK government will offer to deliver 2 free covid tests to everyone once lockdown starts to ease more substantially!!


05 Apr 21 - 05:47 AM (#4100822)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

So you'd be happy to sit next to someone in the cinema who has "tested negative" using an extremely unreliable test? You'd be happy to stand next to someone in the mosh pit with a "vaccine certificate" granted by a government that has killed tens of thousands of people via sheer ineptitude and which has wasted £37 billion on a useless "world-beating" no-track-and-no-trace "system"?

I've got a better idea: stay at home, spend your flicks dough on a nice bottle, and watch a film on the telly. Butterkist make nice popcorn. One day, you can go to the flicks feeling unconditionally safe. It will come.


05 Apr 21 - 06:22 AM (#4100827)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

My view?
Let the pubs re-open in full. There will be different groups of customers:

The vaccinated: Not really a risk to themselves or others (but take precautions if going home to someone not vaccinated)
The yet-to be vaccinated: Assume everyone else is contagious and take reasonable precautions.
Those unable to be vaccinated (for health reasons); continue to take extreme care
Those who choose not to be vaccinated; Your fate is in your own hands, don't expect others to avoid you for your protection.

Of course the pubs should continue with current good hygiene systems and spacing (where possible) at least until the 'yet-to-be' group have had a chance to get a vaccine.
In the future we can expect a 'new norm' where masks may be a fact of life, and everyone will take a bit more care for themselves and for others. But I haven't seen signs of that in the mass evening gatherings in the last week or so. Reopening the pubs might reduce these mass gatherings.

From the above you may gather that I'm missing the pubs (and the pinball machines)


05 Apr 21 - 07:32 AM (#4100831)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

We don't do pubs so irrelevant to us. Yes we watch our films on TV, no need to enter a cinema.

What is a "mosh pit"???


05 Apr 21 - 07:34 AM (#4100832)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The Pfizer vaccine is supposedly effective for the varients including the aggressive UK varient.
I hope that research is not exaggerated.


05 Apr 21 - 07:39 AM (#4100833)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

It'll be a while before I venture back into the pub. I'm all for a cautious reopening. I'm also all for everyone starting to take personal responsibility. If numbers can stay low for the next couple of weeks, and if the vaccination programme stays good, I want to see all government restrictions lifted. So I don't agree with you about masks. If shops, buses and trains want to carry on making us wear them, that's fine, but I want to see all government-decreed control measures disappear. This government is enjoying the current controls over us a little too much for my liking, and vaccine passports are another symptom of that. Let's have a closer look at that:

That bloke sitting next to Bonzo at the flicks. He has a vaccine passport. Either he's (a) had the virus and has antibodies, or (b) he's had the vaccine and has antibodies, or (c) he once had a test and tested positive or (d) he's had a negative result very recently. I suppose there could be an (e): he obtained his passport fraudulently. But let's have a bit more faith in human nature...huh?

(a) We don't know whether previously-infected people can get the virus again. We don't know how long antibodies last in the bloodstream. We don't know about how easy it is to catch a different strain of the virus. Etcetera.

(b) No vaccine is 100% effective. We don't know how long vaccines protect us for. Ditto re antibodies from (a).

(c) No test is anything like 100% reliable. The lateral flow test, the one I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) we're all going to get as a freebie, is notoriously unreliable. With both tests, false negatives are entirely possible. A false positive is, arguably, even more dangerous, as it could have you thinking that you've had the virus when you haven't, lulling you into a false sense of safety. And just because you tested negative today doesn't mean you won't get the virus tomorrow.

(d) See above. Even two tests a week, bearing in mind that the test is unreliable and that we'd be relying on competent self-administration (a dubious assumption), wouldn't be enough to ensure safety. And then we will be relying on people who test positive, possibly inaccurately and possibly who feel perfectly well, fessing up and condemning themselves to even more solitary confinement. I'm not even clear if or how the ongoing testing can be incorporated into a certificate. Maybe I've got that bit wrong.

We will be safe when infection numbers are very low. Vaccine certificates, predicated on stacks of information laced with all these doubts, will not make us safer. Then there's the potential for fraudulent practice. My view is that vaccine certificates are less about our safety and more about continuing government control over our lives. A government that has shown serial gross incompetence. Call me Mr Suspicious. I care not a jot.


05 Apr 21 - 09:24 AM (#4100839)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

"which has wasted £37 billion on a useless "world-beating" no-track-and-no-trace "system"?

Not correct. Allocated 37 billion over 2 years. Might have spent about a third by now.


05 Apr 21 - 10:03 AM (#4100842)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Interesting article by Sarah Boseley in The Guardian about the discovery of the Kent variant.

The Covid detectives


05 Apr 21 - 10:32 AM (#4100846)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Er, the allocation is £22 billion in the first year and another £15 billion in the second. Unless the government does a U-turn, all that money will be spent. And knowing how costs for any government project usually balloon, I suspect it will come to a lot more than the £37 billion. I'm quite happy for you to reread my post as saying "is wasting" rather than "has wasted" if it bothers you.


05 Apr 21 - 11:05 AM (#4100851)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

I dread to think what corbyn would have wasted billions on!!!!!


05 Apr 21 - 11:05 AM (#4100852)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

What bothers me is the lack of information and lazy and inaccurate reporting in the media. I agree that it could well cost a lot more, especially if they are hoping to increase the amount of testing.

Latest reported figures on the cost are that £5.7 billion was spent up to November 2020

Public Accounts Committee


05 Apr 21 - 11:23 AM (#4100854)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

At least Corbyn would've taken Johnson on over the gross mishandling of the pandemic instead of Starmer's hopeless "Yeah, well, hmm, OK, we sort of support you but you should really have done everything a bit sooner blah blah..." There's been no opposition to a man who's caused tens of thousands of deaths and created a human scrap heap, the upshot being that he's now nine points ahead in the polls. Electing Starmer was the worst bloody move Labour have ever made. I tried to tell you...

Anyway, it's a pandemic thread. We could always take this outside.


05 Apr 21 - 11:57 AM (#4100858)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

No, time for Sainsbury's Harvest Grain bread cut 2cm thick, Lurpak butter and Sainsbury's Strawberry Conserve!!!


05 Apr 21 - 12:17 PM (#4100862)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

Home made crusty bread and home made strawberry jam would be a lot better.

Does someone in this thread have shares in Sainsbury's and Lurpak?


05 Apr 21 - 12:34 PM (#4100865)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Bonne Maman for me every time. On toast. And use the Lurpak to grease your bike hubs. We only buy a local Cornish unsalted butter.


05 Apr 21 - 12:43 PM (#4100868)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

We don't do home made any bread, we leave it to the bakers who know what they are doing!!


05 Apr 21 - 01:15 PM (#4100870)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

In that case, I recommend Marks and Spencer's French loaves.


05 Apr 21 - 02:19 PM (#4100880)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

I heard about the worrying situation in Chile,in the questions following the UK Covid briefing this afternoon. Despite having a very good vaccination program they are seeing a rise in covid cases.

A cause of concern and a reminder that we do need to progress cautiously.

Chile lockdown


06 Apr 21 - 05:03 AM (#4100952)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Fitzgeralds sourdough baguettes (a few minutes in the oven to finish 'em off) are very nice. The two-packs of Morrisons ciabattas (75p or two for a quid) are excellent. I warm them in the oven too.

It's all very well the UK bucking the trend of third waves in a lot of other countries, but we are nowhere near strict enough about our borders at the moment. A "traffic-light system" is the next bloody stupid Johnson idea...


06 Apr 21 - 06:05 AM (#4100957)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

And do we think that Boris Johnson will look closely at what's happening in Chile and be informed by it? Of course he won't. Not listening and learning has been his consistent modus operandi since all this started. In Chile they were too quick to let people travel around the country. Too quick to allow foreign holidays. Too quick to reopen gyms and cinemas. Watch this space...


06 Apr 21 - 07:10 AM (#4100962)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

"Everything he's doing, he's doing in order to control us ever more."

"And do we think that Boris Johnson will look closely at what's happening in Chile and be informed by it? Of course he won't."

So do you want him to relax the restrictions or not? They are going to have to be relaxed sometime and that will always involve an element of risk.

My local have said they are thinking of reopening next week. It remains to be seen if that makes financial sense or not. Then again many small businesses are facing financial ruin due to the current situation.


06 Apr 21 - 08:04 AM (#4100964)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Gold medal know alls!!!!!


06 Apr 21 - 08:13 AM (#4100969)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

If we want to stop new variants getting into the country, and if we want to prevent another wave, we have to close our borders. Overwhelmingly, that means stopping foreign holidays. I don't think anyone has the right to go on holiday to anywhere on earth at the moment and risk bringing the virus into the country. A foreign holiday is absolutely a non-essential. I know that some people have relatives overseas. That's just too bad. The risks of foreign travel are not just a risk to those families but are a risk to the whole country. My mum died in a care home in October and for the last nine months of her life I could see her for one hour every two weeks through a plastic screen, having visited her five times a week before that. There was no vaccine then and we had to accept that situation in order to keep everyone safe. What do you think, Rain Dog? There are things that are crucial we do, and there are things being used to control us that are no more than pissing round the edges. As for your question, I want government controls over masks, "non-essential shops" (that's a laugh, that is, when I can buy papers, paint, Easter eggs nail polish, pots and pans and God knows what else in Morrisons), bloody "rules of six" and going to people's houses to be removed. They are becoming blunt instruments of government control and have little to do with our safety any more. I want us all to take personal responsibility for our post-lockdown behaviour and I want to see lots of government advice and information. Advice, not edicts. No divisive and discriminatory vaccine passports, no piddling around with traffic lights. If a shop or cinema insists that I wear a mask, or prove my jabs, that's the shop or cinema, not the government, and I'll probably vote with my feet. But the threat from overseas is critical. We can and should close our borders to casual travel. I know the lorries have to come and go. But that can be checked and that should be it. We have to do the crucial things but we should want our freedom back, pronto.


06 Apr 21 - 08:21 AM (#4100970)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

LOTS of leaders suffered from premature isolation
and late libertine quarantine.


06 Apr 21 - 09:23 AM (#4100976)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Like you, I believe that all of us should take personal responsibility for our behaviour and safety. Like you I did not wear a mask until it was made compulsory to do so. The reason that I am happy enough to keep wearing a mask now is for the safety of others,primarily the staff, not myself. I only spend a short time on the premises, unlike the staff who are there for the length of their shift.

Do masks lessen the chances of catching or passing on the virus? I think that they do. Do you think NHS staff working on covid wards don't need to wear their masks? During your recent visits to hospital, did you think the staff treating you should be wearing masks?

It is easy for me to make my own decisions but it is a lot harder to make those decisions for others.

Yesterday after the briefing, someone asked a question about going on holiday. It seems to happen after all the briefings. Some seem to think that the future can be predicted rather than waiting to see what the evidence tells us. Of course you can understand all those working in the travel industry worrying about the future. The government has already spent an unprecedented amount of money helping out various businesses. How much longer can they do that for?

I do think they should be wary of relaxing travel restrictions. Of course variants can, and most probably will, arise here in the UK. The link to the Guardian article that I posted was very informative about that.

As to the passport/certificate they are talking about, we cannot be sure what is going to happen. Yesterday Boris said they would not be required from either the 12th April or the 17th May, but we all know how quickly he changes his mind. It would not surprise me if some businesses insist on customers having them in order to get in,especially if they want to get more in at one time. I would not like to see that but can understand why they might do it.

Damned if you do and dammed if you don't. I don't envy those who have to make those decisions, either advisers or politicians.


06 Apr 21 - 11:02 AM (#4100991)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

This is HUGE news!

Researchers Are Hatching a Low-Cost Coronavirus Vaccine

A new formulation entering clinical trials in Brazil, Mexico, Thailand and Vietnam could change how the world fights the pandemic.

From the article (a big middle chunk of it, in case it can't be read outside the US):

But simply injecting coronavirus spike proteins into people is not the best way to vaccinate them. That’s because spike proteins sometimes assume the wrong shape, and prompt the immune system to make the wrong antibodies.

This insight emerged long before the Covid-19 pandemic. In 2015, another coronavirus appeared, causing a deadly form of pneumonia called MERS. Jason McLellan, a structural biologist then at the Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth, and his colleagues set out to make a vaccine against it.

They wanted to use the spike protein as a target. But they had to reckon with the fact that the spike protein is a shape-shifter. As the protein prepares to fuse to a cell, it contorts from a tulip-like shape into something more akin to a javelin.

Scientists call these two shapes the prefusion and postfusion forms of the spike. Antibodies against the prefusion shape work powerfully against the coronavirus, but postfusion antibodies don’t stop it.

Dr. McLellan and his colleagues used standard techniques to make a MERS vaccine but ended up with a lot of postfusion spikes, useless for their purposes. Then they discovered a way to keep the protein locked in a tulip-like prefusion shape. All they had to do was change two of more than 1,000 building blocks in the protein into a compound called proline.

The resulting spike — called 2P, for the two new proline molecules it contained — was far more likely to assume the desired tulip shape. The researchers injected the 2P spikes into mice and found that the animals could easily fight off infections of the MERS coronavirus.

The team filed a patent for its modified spike, but the world took little notice of the invention. MERS, although deadly, is not very contagious and proved to be a relatively minor threat; fewer than 1,000 people have died of MERS since it first emerged in humans.

But in late 2019 a new coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, emerged and began ravaging the world. Dr. McLellan and his colleagues swung into action, designing a 2P spike unique to SARS-CoV-2. In a matter of days, Moderna used that information to design a vaccine for Covid-19; it contained a genetic molecule called RNA with the instructions for making the 2P spike.

Other companies soon followed suit, adopting 2P spikes for their own vaccine designs and starting clinical trials. All three of the vaccines that have been authorized so far in the United States — from Johnson & Johnson, Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech — use the 2P spike.

Other vaccine makers are using it as well. Novavax has had strong results with the 2P spike in clinical trials and is expected to apply to the Food and Drug Administration for emergency use authorization in the next few weeks. Sanofi is also testing a 2P spike vaccine and expects to finish clinical trials later this year.

Two prolines are good; six are better

Dr. McLellan’s ability to find lifesaving clues in the structure of proteins has earned him deep admiration in the vaccine world. “This guy is a genius,” said Harry Kleanthous, a senior program officer at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. “He should be proud of this huge thing he’s done for humanity.”

But once Dr. McLellan and his colleagues handed off the 2P spike to vaccine makers, he turned back to the protein for a closer look. If swapping just two prolines improved a vaccine, surely additional tweaks could improve it even more.

“It made sense to try to have a better vaccine,” said Dr. McLellan, who is now an associate professor at the University of Texas at Austin.

In March, he joined forces with two fellow University of Texas biologists, Ilya Finkelstein and Jennifer Maynard. Their three labs created 100 new spikes, each with an altered building block. With funding from the Gates Foundation, they tested each one and then combined the promising changes in new spikes. Eventually, they created a single protein that met their aspirations.

The winner contained the two prolines in the 2P spike, plus four additional prolines found elsewhere in the protein. Dr. McLellan called the new spike HexaPro, in honor of its total of six prolines.

The structure of HexaPro was even more stable than 2P, the team found. It was also resilient, better able to withstand heat and damaging chemicals. Dr. McLellan hoped that its rugged design would make it potent in a vaccine.

Dr. McLellan also hoped that HexaPro-based vaccines would reach more of the world — especially low- and middle-income countries, which so far have received only a fraction of the total distribution of first-wave vaccines.

“The share of the vaccines they’ve received so far is terrible,” Dr. McLellan said.

To that end, the University of Texas set up a licensing arrangement for HexaPro that allows companies and labs in 80 low- and middle-income countries to use the protein in their vaccines without paying royalties.

Meanwhile, Dr. Innis and his colleagues at PATH were looking for a way to increase the production of Covid-19 vaccines. They wanted a vaccine that less wealthy nations could make on their own.


06 Apr 21 - 11:04 AM (#4100992)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

From 9 April anyone will be able to access free, rapid lateral flow tests (LFDs) for themselves and their families to use twice a week, in line with clinical guidance. The significant step, alongside the vaccine rollout, will pave the way for businesses and society to reopen after lockdown.

The regular testing will be delivered through multiple streams including: an online home ordering service, workplace testing programmes, community testing programmes provided by local authorities, collection at local PCR test sites, testing on-site at schools and colleges, and a new ‘Pharmacy Collect’ Service which will provide an additional route regular testing.

Rapid testing is currently only available for those most at risk and for those needing to leave home for work. As one in three people with covid-19 do not experience any symptoms, the new regular rapid tests will help prevent and contain outbreaks so a more normal way of life can resume. Since LFDS rapid testing was introduced, over 120,000 positive cases of covid-19, that would not have been found, have been identified.

Dr Susan Hopkins, Covid-19 strategic response director at PHE and chief medical adviser to NHS Test and Trace, said: ‘I encourage everyone to take up the offer of these free rapid tests, they are quick and easy to carry out in your own home.

‘Rapid testing helps us find Covid-19 cases that we wouldn’t otherwise know about, helping to break chains of transmission. These tests are effective in detecting people that are infectious and therefore most likely to transmit infection to others. They are another tool we now have to help maintain lower infection rates.’

The government has already introduced a scheme for regular rapid Covid-19 tests in the workplaces of 50 or more staff, to provide safer working environments for sectors where employees cannot work from home. Already 100,000 UK businesses have registered their interest.


06 Apr 21 - 11:29 AM (#4100994)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Thanks for that long article, Stilly, but put a link to it in the vax thread too, wouldja?


06 Apr 21 - 01:02 PM (#4101007)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

To be clear, I want government instruments of control to be removed. If a shop, a bus driver, a publican or a cinema asks me to wear a mask, I will not refuse to comply but I may or may not decide to go elsewhere. If a hospital or care home asks me to wear a mask, I'll comply cheerfully for now. But it's them asking me, not an entitled Etonian buffoon telling me. It should be up to me or the shop, not Boris Johnson. The government, instead of making edicts, should be bombarding us with all the information we need in order to make informed choices as to our behaviour. It has always been the case that a shop, etc., may lawfully refuse to let me in without giving a reason. That's how it should be. We should protest constantly and loudly against edicts that say we can't visit our friends and relatives. We can decide among ourselves, in the light of good information, what we should be doing. We need to develop an ethos of personal responsibility. The last person on this planet who should be imposing "responsibility" on us is a scruffy clown who doesn't even know how many children he's sired. But we need to close our borders to all casual travel. The danger is that he's going to piffle around with his petty controlling yet allow leaky borders. Fatal. Literally.


06 Apr 21 - 02:12 PM (#4101020)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

That is good news Stilly. The more vaccines that get approved the better. The UK have ordered 60 million doses of the Novavax,which is awaiting approval in the UK. It will be manufactured in the UK.

The biggest problem with all the vaccines is the lack of manufacturing capacity. I am not aware of any country hoarding vaccines. The majority are using them as soon as they can. I seem to recall that the US was storing AstraZeneca vaccine,pending approval. I don't know if that is still the case.

Here in the UK the government have funded a vaccine manufacturing centre. The hope is that it will be ready to start making vaccines later this year. Once that is up and running they will be able to start shipping vaccines abroad.


06 Apr 21 - 03:01 PM (#4101027)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Steve, I am not a fan of new laws being introduced. Ordinarily I think that we have adequate laws available which just need to be applied.

However. Do you think that the government was wrong to bring in the lockdown? To close schools etc? If it was left to personal choice I think it is safe to say that the NHS would certainly have been overwhelmed due to the second wave. The Kent variant spread like wildfire as it was.

Then again Boris is not making these decisions on his own. There will be scientists telling him to do it as well.


06 Apr 21 - 03:54 PM (#4101035)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Clearly the decisions should have been left entirely to the keyboard warriors of Mudcat who think they know it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


06 Apr 21 - 04:03 PM (#4101037)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

He doesn't listen to scientists. He is far more a fan of British bulldog Quasi-Churchillian Boris exceptionalism. The lockdowns so far have happened because he has been serially behind the curve at every juncture, making each wave much worse than it need have been. Didn't learn from what happened in Italy, preferring to cheerily tell us that we'd beat the virus in twelve weeks. Sent untested old people from hospital straight into care homes, killing thousands. Encouraged all sorts of shenanigans in the summer, eat out to bloody help out, didn't see the autumn wave coming until it was too late, and still didn't listen. You think he finished with making mistakes? I should bloody coco... Passports...Traffic lights...Here we go again...

Those scientists who he won't listen to have done all the good work for him. They're all in pharmaceutical companies. He just wears a white coat and a silly hat.


06 Apr 21 - 07:50 PM (#4101075)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

They have got things wrong but when a lockdown was needed were they wrong to insist on it?

When people wanted to travel to the west country, were the government right to say you should not make unnecessary journeys?

If you met one of those visitors to the west country would you have agreed with their personal choice?

I don't know if you took advantage of the eat out offer in the summer. Was it wrong for others to do so?

In the scheme of things having to wear a mask comes low down on the list of rights to be given up. Closing businesses, curbing both domestic and foreign travel, curbing people's right to meet up are rather more important rights to give up. Are you saying the government were wrong to insist that we follow those rules?

At least they haven't brought in a curfew. I guess we have that to look forward to.


06 Apr 21 - 08:52 PM (#4101085)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

No I did not do the eat-out thing. Now what did I just say? I said that I don't want edicts. I want the government to give us all full and abundant information and advice. Tell us what the science really says. Better still, put a sock in Boris's stupid mouth and get the scientists to tell us. The government encouraged us to go and dine out. Was that the sort of advice you think I meant? People came to the Westcountry in droves last year. The whole place was overcrowded between June and the end of October, all the accommodation full and the place crawling, literally, with extra day trippers who couldn't go on their foreign hols or cruises. No-one was advising them not to come. The risks were played down. We got away with it until half way through September, and then the numbers started going up. It was another SIX WEEKS before there was any clampdown. The science was there and the science was ignored. The upshot of that delay was the dreadful winter that we've just had, far worse than it should have been. Thank God that the vaccine rollout has staunched it. So where was the information, the advice, the urging, last mid-September? You go to a place heaving with people and you think, well, it must be OK because we haven't been advised not to come here. Then when we do finally get the edicts, it all suddenly seems so arbitrary. In the last few weeks the Westcountry has been just about the safest place in the country. But the blunt instrument of lockdown has hit us just as badly as in the worst-affected areas. The only reason we need to wear masks round here is because no-one is telling people that coming here from all over the place from next week onward isn't sensible. "Try to stay local." What does that mean? I read somewhere it means stay in your local authority area. For me, that means I'm OK driving two hours to Penzance or Land's End! As for those masks, I disagree with you. They are the single most visible manifestation of government control. Have you ever seen anyone checking that the masks people are wearing are clean? Not a paper one worn every day for a week before chucking it? The front not touched? Never been hitched under the nose or chin? Never been stuffed in your pants pocket next to your ten-pound notes, bank cards and tissues? No big gaps? Nobody cares about any of that. All they care about is that half your face has something shoved over it. Never mind the quality, feel the control.

Tell us what we need to know, about the disease, the transmission, the risks, how to be safe, the vaccines. Give us good advice predicated on real scientific information. We'll do the rest, at least as well as we are doing now. There's little or no social distancing going on here in Bude, and round here we generally behave ourselves. No-one told Morrisons to limit numbers, to make the aisles wider, to institute a one-way system. No-one takes any notice of the one-way arrows painted on our crowded, narrow pavements. You can't enforce arbitrary edicts in a country used to being a democracy. So let's make sure they are ditched. With no rules but good advice we certainly won't do any worse than we do now, and a more positive ethos founded on personal responsibility may even mean we do it better. And I'll always have a mask with me.


07 Apr 21 - 05:21 AM (#4101119)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

I am still unsure if you agree with the use of lockdowns or not? They could hardly operate on a voluntary basis could they? You are no longer working but for those that are, a voluntary lockdown would have been confusing.

With regards to my previous comment about a curfew, I forgot that they introduced a 10 PM closing time last summer. That did not make a lot of sense to me.


07 Apr 21 - 05:25 AM (#4101121)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

Unfortunately, Steve, your idea of "Tell us the science and let us decide how to react to it" would not work.
Some would isolate themselves indefinitely, others would go out and party with the masses.

Without the first lockdown there would have been no second peak. The first one would have just rolled on, overwhelming the NHS and (possibly) increasing the death toll.

Unlike you I believe that Boris is listening to the scientists. But he also has to look at the need for the country to come out of this at the end without being a total wreck. We need to keep businesses open, or capable of being re-opened. Boris has the job of balancing the health and financial needs of the country.

You seem to think that, given the necessary scientific information, your part of the country could manage itself, without the influx of tourists (who keep the economy of the West Country going) then you go on to say There's little or no social distancing going on here in Bude, and round here we generally behave ourselves. It seems that you don't believe that your countrymen are capable of following the science.


07 Apr 21 - 06:06 AM (#4101122)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Let's not talk past each other here. The lockdowns we have had were massively more severe and lengthy than they needed to have been purely because of government incompetence and refusal to listen to the science. Given prompt (key word, Boris) and, OK, maybe short, sharp action, as we saw in some other countries, this country could have been running at near-normal for most of the last twelve months. I think everyone would have understood that, and subsequent behaviour, informed by proper advice and accurate information, would have been at least as good as in any lockdown or ridiculous and ineffective tier system. Instead, we are heading for a crippling recession, austerity like we've never seen, mass unemployment, increasing child poverty and physical and mental ill-health on a scale that could even rival or dwarf the pandemic. As for "overwhelming the NHS", you presumably mean the NHS that these Tories have run into the ground for a decade? That one? The same Tories who did nothing when they were starkly warned, four years ago, that the NHS in its then state was in no position to handle a major epidemic?

As for this:

"Without the first lockdown there would have been no second peak. The first one would have just rolled on, overwhelming the NHS and (possibly) increasing the death toll."

You can't know that numbers wouldn't have fallen anyway during the summer. There were still low levels of disease around all summer, but the country had a free-for-all apropos of staycationing (sorry) and we got away with it for two or three months. But the September warning signs? Ignored. Cornwall was still heaving during the late-October half-term.

As for us Cornish not following the science, we can't. We wear these dodgy masks that keep the controllers happy. But we can't socially distance. There's no room. No room in Sainsbury's, no room in Morrisons, no room in Boots, no room in the co-op. No room on the pavements.

And here's the next crackpot scheme. Vaccine passports, or whatever Boris wants to call them (a poll tax is a poll tax however you try to dress it up...) won't be needed in the most dangerous places of all, bus stations, railway stations, tube stations, on buses and on trains. Do me a bloody favour...


07 Apr 21 - 07:59 AM (#4101135)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

If *any* lockdowns had actually been "more severe than necessary" you would no longer have covid where the lockdown was. But you do, so they obviously weren't, duh.


08 Apr 21 - 04:27 AM (#4101326)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

If you can be arsed we could take that argument to the Brit thread. Carry on here and we'll be getting a bollocking.


08 Apr 21 - 11:43 AM (#4101378)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The predominate strain for the hospitalized infections in the US is the UK strain. Its a bad'n.


08 Apr 21 - 02:00 PM (#4101401)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

It is certainly more virulent. First became noticed here during our November lockdown. Cases just kept going up and up despite the country being in lockdown.


08 Apr 21 - 06:09 PM (#4101441)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Its the first I mentioned the predominence, why are you respondsible/defensive?
My actual estranged brother Steve is fully Magatized. Believes everything Trump and Q says and thinks others are deluded. Although he lives in a Spanish speaking country he is even anti immigrant. He welcomes the vaccine but alcohol abuse is breaking his bones from falls yet he still thinks he is OK.
Many share his perseverence which I call mental illness.
Anti Vaxers go one step further into the void.


08 Apr 21 - 06:32 PM (#4101447)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

I was responding to this sentence:

The lockdowns we have had were massively more severe and lengthy than they needed to have been purely because of government incompetence and refusal to listen to the science.

What did I not understand?


08 Apr 21 - 08:49 PM (#4101460)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

You said "lockdowns more severe than necessary" and that is patently not what I said. I said "The lockdowns we have had were massively more severe and lengthy than they needed to have been purely because of government incompetence..." The government's incompetence caused lockdowns that were longer and more severe than they otherwise would have needed to have been. I didn't say anything about their being more severe than necessary. The severity was necessary because of government incompetence.


09 Apr 21 - 08:52 AM (#4101499)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I have a nasty feeling that things are going to go pear-shaped in the UK. We are short of vaccine. Under-50s vaccination is largely on hold so that older people can at least get their second jab. Our local vaccination centre is closed. Larger centres in Devon and Cornwall are closing. Vaccine fear is building up because of this nonsense about clots and Astra Zeneca. The country is opening up on Monday. We can go abroad in about six weeks' time. Sports venues with large crowds will be permitted. Instead of closing our borders to all except essential imports and exports, we are instituting a complicated "traffic lights" scheme in order to mollify the big hitters in the leisure travel industry (please don't tell me it's for any other reason). We may be able to go to pubs, clubs and footie matches if we can show that we're vaccinated (not 100% reliable, and no guarantee that we're not still spreaders), have just been tested (scarily unreliable), or have had the disease (prove it). A fake vaccination passport will also do the job. All the big nations round and about are having a big third wave. The Channel is 21 miles wide.

It's madness. We haven't learned a thing. The one thing that will nobble this country is foreign travel. All just to keep EasyJet and Virgin happy and to let Brits get Guinness, fish and chips and skin cancer in the Med.


09 Apr 21 - 09:54 AM (#4101509)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

"The one thing that will nobble this country is foreign travel."

That is just not the one thing. You cannot rule out the emergence of a more serious variant in the UK. We do not have to abroad to get one of those.

Weather permitting, and providing my local opens, I might pop out on Monday for a pint in the pub garden.


09 Apr 21 - 12:06 PM (#4101524)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

We can't help new variants but we can minimise the risks of getting them. Encouraging good public behaviour by putting out frequently-updated information and advice, and closing the borders to all leisure travel in and out, and keeping the vaccination programme on track, are the ways to avoid a third wave. There's a third wave 21 miles away from us right now. We should be doing the things that we CAN help. If we let people in and out of the country in droves, we WILL get a third wave. Enjoy your pint. I have Prosecco and Negroamaro. That'll do me for now.


09 Apr 21 - 12:54 PM (#4101545)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Indeed Europe is not having a good time of it. Only 21 miles away from me,cases of infection are 500 and more per 100,000. Here in Dover for the week up to 4.4.21 it was 9.3 cases per 100,000

Yesterday because of favourable weather conditions, the French coast was clearly visible to the naked eye. Not far away at all.


09 Apr 21 - 06:13 PM (#4101597)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Well I hate lockdowns and I'm a lucky bugger compared to most. I live in a low-infection area and I have no kids to school and I have a big garden, etc. I'm retired and my savings are better than ever because I'm in the second year of not going on a couple of foreign hols, and I haven't been to a restaurant for a good (expensive) blowout for 13 months. All I want is for this thing to go away. I believe that we Brits will respond positively to good information and advice from the government. I believe that we don't want any more lockdowns. We want our pubs, flicks, restaurants and theatres back. We've bloody well had enough. But we need some savvy people at the helm who'll stop pissing around with stupid schemes that pander to Tui, Virgin, Ryanair and EasyJet. We seriously need to stop leisure travel both in and out of the country. If we do that properly, this thing will end sooner rather than later. If we kowtow to this ridiculous government traffic light scheme, we'll be enduring this misery for many more months to come. Remind me in a year that I said that, and if I'm wrong I'll eat my hat. Just remember that we have a buffoon at the helm who never learns.


10 Apr 21 - 06:18 AM (#4101703)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Mrs Bonzo is in the cripples' queue for her second jab right now at our surgery. Average age must be 85+!!!


10 Apr 21 - 06:44 AM (#4101708)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Our entire surgery was being used for covid jabs this morning!


10 Apr 21 - 10:15 AM (#4101748)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Right, Steve Shaw. And I countered with Had any lockdowns been even long *enough* they would have worked. They didn't, so they weren't long enough, let alone too long.
Again, what are you claiming *I* misunderstood?


10 Apr 21 - 01:14 PM (#4101781)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

*sigh.* This is what you said:

"If *any* lockdowns had actually been "more severe than necessary" you would no longer have covid where the lockdown was. But you do, so they obviously weren't, duh."

That looks like you were quoting me from the post before yours. But that is not what I said. My simple point was that lockdowns were longer and more severe than they need have been because of government incompetence. I didn't make any comment as to whether I thought the government were imposing lockdowns that were more severe "than necessary". Fer chrissake.


10 Apr 21 - 02:08 PM (#4101787)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

lockdowns were longer and more severe than they need have been because of government incompetence. I didn't make any comment as to whether I thought the government were imposing lockdowns that were more severe "than necessary"
Longer than needed, but not longer than necessary. That seems to be a distinction without a difference.


10 Apr 21 - 03:27 PM (#4101793)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

You're getting there, Nigel, but what I really meant has still evaded you. "Longer than should have been needed" would have cut it. Now chaps. If I carry on with this I shall have to start questioning my own sanity. Feel free to argue the point in my absence.


10 Apr 21 - 10:53 PM (#4101813)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Oh, ok, you weren't wrong, you just didn't mean what you said. I can live with that, not always being limpidly clear in my phrasing either.


11 Apr 21 - 07:06 AM (#4101829)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I said precisely what I meant. Vexatious reinterpretations are entirely down to you. I hope they give you pleasure.


11 Apr 21 - 08:07 AM (#4101837)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

Steve:
Maybe you're 'getting there'.
You're getting there, Nigel, but what I really meant has still evaded you. "Longer than should have been needed" would have cut it.
Implicit in your above comment is that you did not make your meaning clear previously, and are only clarifying it after that lack of clarity has been pointed out to you.


11 Apr 21 - 08:25 AM (#4101840)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Implicit in my comments on this is that I'm trying to make it clear that what I was supposed to have said I didn't actually say, as should have been apparent straight away when Mrrzy put a phrase in quotes that clearly did not come from me, despite the implication that it did.


11 Apr 21 - 08:41 AM (#4101844)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Yes, it did. I copied it from your post of 17 April 06.06 am.


11 Apr 21 - 09:08 AM (#4101849)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I have NEVER said that lockdowns "had actually been 'more severe than necessary,'" never never never, not in that or any other post. That's all you, even though you put it in quotes as though it was me. So you did not "copy" it from any post of mine.


11 Apr 21 - 10:12 AM (#4101855)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

It has been fourteen months now, but the FDA is finally recommending to health care providers that they can now cease reusing disposable respirators:

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is recommending health care personnel and facilities transition away from crisis capacity conservation strategies, such as decontaminating or bioburden reducing disposable respirators for reuse. Based on the increased domestic supply of new respirators approved by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) currently available to facilitate this transition, the FDA and CDC believe there is adequate supply of respirators to transition away from use of decontamination and bioburden reduction systems.

The FDA recommends that health care personnel and facilities:

Limit decontamination of disposable respirators. Decontaminated respirators and respirators that have undergone bioburden reduction should be used only when there are insufficient supplies of new FFRs or if you are unable to obtain any new respirators.
Transition away from a crisis capacity strategy for respirators, such as decontamination of N95 and other FFRs.
Increase inventory of available NIOSH-approved respirators—including N95s and other FFRs, elastomeric respirators, including new elastomeric respirators without an exhalation valve that can be used in the operating room, and powered air-purifying respirators (PAPRs). Even if you are unable to obtain the respirator model that you would prefer, the FDA recommends that you obtain and use a new respirator before decontaminating or bioburden reducing a preferred disposable respirator.


This begs the question why were all of these devices disposed of after one use if they can be satisfactorily decontaminated? Think of the materials that go into these devices and the cost of purchasing new. If they made them a little more sturdily, could they routinely be decontaminated as a regular matter of practice? How does the cost new compare to the cost of decontamination protocols? It used to be that everything was cleaned and sterilized (in the 1970s I worked at Ellis Island, the old immigrant processing station. In the long-closed hospital there was an early 20th century room-sized autoclave with doors that sealed like the doors in a submarine).

Of course technology won't all return to that of 100 years ago, but aside from the bloated overhead of management staffing in health care institutions, the cost of equipment and materials is also inflated. It is what the market, up till now, would bear.

I suppose the answer comes down to human nature - will the humans given the job of decontamination be given the proper instructions and adequate pay incentive to do the job thoroughly and correctly 100% of the time? We'd waste a lot less material if this were the case.


11 Apr 21 - 02:26 PM (#4101887)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Yes, I did. Here is the whole paragraph with header from 07, not 17, April, copied part in bold, emphasis mine:

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 07 Apr 21 - 06:06 AM

Let's not talk past each other here. The lockdowns we have had were massively more severe and lengthy than they needed to have been purely because of government incompetence and refusal to listen to the science. Given prompt (key word, Boris) and, OK, maybe short, sharp action, as we saw in some other countries, this country could have been running at near-normal for most of the last twelve months. I think everyone would have understood that, and subsequent behaviour, informed by proper advice and accurate information, would have been at least as good as in any lockdown or ridiculous and ineffective tier system. Instead, we are heading for a crippling recession, austerity like we've never seen, mass unemployment, increasing child poverty and physical and mental ill-health on a scale that could even rival or dwarf the pandemic. As for "overwhelming the NHS", you presumably mean the NHS that these Tories have run into the ground for a decade? That one? The same Tories who did nothing when they were starkly warned, four years ago, that the NHS in its then state was in no position to handle a major epidemic?


11 Apr 21 - 05:31 PM (#4101910)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Well far be it from me to end this fun, but here's precisely what you said:

"If *any* lockdowns had actually been "more severe than necessary" you would no longer have covid where the lockdown was. But you do, so they obviously weren't, duh."

I did not say that, despite your quote marks. Anyone can check that (including you). You ascribed a meaning to my statement that I patently did not intend (it really isn't hard, this stuff..)

If you truly think that "The lockdowns we have had were massively more severe and lengthy than they needed to have been purely because of government incompetence" means the same thing as "more severe than necessary" then your level of literacy is, disappointingly, somewhat lower than what I've credited you with. Eat more low GI carbs is my advice. :-)


11 Apr 21 - 07:05 PM (#4101918)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick

From: Mrrzy
Right, Steve Shaw. And I countered with ......

From: Steve Shaw
*sigh.* This is what you said: ........

From: Mrrzy
Oh, ok, you weren't wrong, you just didn't mean .......

From: Steve Shaw
I said precisely what I meant. ......

From: Steve Shaw
........... a phrase in quotes that clearly did not come from me, ...........

From: Mrrzy
Yes, it did. I copied it ..........

From: Steve Shaw
I have NEVER said .....




So, there really is something in this world more boring than reading about COVID-19.


DC


11 Apr 21 - 08:32 PM (#4101925)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Couldn't agree more, Doug. I no longer have an actual arse, as it was bored off me umpteen posts ago. But do bear with me. I'm being charitable to Mrrzy here, as well as Nigel, tangentially, by giving them something to live for. This lockdown malarkey is tough, and one does have to indulge the less fortunate...


12 Apr 21 - 12:33 AM (#4101936)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic

Just when the shorelines and roadside bushes are filling up with castoff single use masks, come Will i am
and the new powered fans bluetooth noise cancelling high tech mask.

Rejoice, we are truly (some kind of) saved. If only so many masks were now causing an environmental hazard along with the thousands of supermarket bags that we once again get for free in the checkout because we are not expected to shop with reusable bags during Covid.


12 Apr 21 - 01:24 AM (#4101941)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Oh, yes, Steve Shaw, I live for you. I especially like that sharp left dancing turn you take whenever you realize you have been shown -again- to be wrong about something.

Sorry, the rest of y'all. Want to talk about pairs of X chromosomes?


12 Apr 21 - 01:42 AM (#4101942)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

So have we exhausted new COVID news and are now reduced to bickering?


12 Apr 21 - 02:01 AM (#4101943)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Concern in China about expressing concern about the efficacy of Chinese vaccines

Efficacy of Chinese Vaccines


12 Apr 21 - 06:21 PM (#4102020)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

So today in England we've had the Great Release. Shops, gyms and swimming pools reopened. Pub gardens heaving. Massive queues from 7 AM outside Primark (for Christ's sake). Shopping centres are absolutely stuffed with people. Traffic jams on the M5 coming down to Cornwall. My town, Bude, almost gridlocked with holidaymakers. We have vox pops on the telly bleating about how much we all need all this, and now. Need to get in your bloody motor home and come to Bude. Can't live another day unless you can come to your chalet in a holiday park in Newquay (which has hundreds of other chalets, all identical with yours), or queue outside Primark because you can't wait one more day to replace your Bangladeshi slave-labour knickers. Celebratory clips of people having their hair cut or their faux-blondness renewed at long last. I don't get that. I look like the wild man of Borneo right now and I'm sporting the look as a badge of honour. We've had a national orgasm today, and it's worrying.

There should never have been this lockdown. The government should have put all its energy into creating a national ethos of responsibility, by giving information, advice and by constant urging. Instead, the country thinks today that the thing is all over. That we're in the sunlit uplands.

Well we are not. The vaccine has not yet been rolled out to under-50s. In countries still struggling with the virus, it's the under-50s who are now being hard hit. But we've leaned hard compressing the spring but have suddenly let it go. We are in for another wave. Doomed. Watch this space...


13 Apr 21 - 01:14 PM (#4102104)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Just ponder on this for a minute...

2020 - We just have to stay in for a couple of months.
WW II - You have to leave your loved ones and might never see them again.

2020 - But my kids need some fresh air so we're all going to the park.
WW II - Your kids have to be evacuated and live with random good samaritans for their safety.

2020 - I can only Facetime my family and friends I can't see them.
WW II - I have written letters, I'm hoping they're received and I get a response this year.

2020 - I am trying to order my food shop online, it's taking ages to get to me I need, alcohol, and all the other foods I'm craving.
WW II - Are you coming to queue-up in the line for our rations-potato soup every day of the week?

2020 - The government hasn't said we can't go out, they just said we can but only once to exercise so I'm going to go meet my friends and do what I want.
WW II - I'm not going out just in case a bomb drops so I will stay in listening to some music quietly because the air raid siren might go off.

2020 - Netflix needs to sort the streaming out I can't even watch a series without it crashing.
WW II - We are sitting in the dark around a candle playing cards keeping as much light in as possible so the warplanes don't see us from above.

2020 - Every man for themselves, so I'm going to stock-pile as much as I can because we are more important than anyone else, never mind the elderly that gave us this freedom.
WW II - I'm so grateful for this community, everyone is helping each other out when and where we can, we must stay strong.

This is the perspective that we should have, we don't know how LUCKY we have it and people still aren't listening.

Stay in, it really is that simple!


13 Apr 21 - 01:19 PM (#4102106)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

"Stay in, it really is that simple!"

If only it was. How would your dog go for a run?


19 Apr 21 - 01:17 PM (#4102719)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

News to do with the COVID era, but it's an adjacent story. Traffic deaths rose in 2020 despite the lower traffic.

The Emptier Roads of 2020 Were More Lethal

Preliminary data from the National Safety Council shows a 24% spike in the U.S. traffic fatality rate, with drivers traveling faster and more recklessly with fewer people on the road.

When the pandemic swept across the U.S. in March 2020, vehicle traffic was largely stilled in major cities. Hazy skies over Los Angeles and New York City cleared up with the loss of tailpipe pollution. Quieter residential streets made room for pop-up walking and cycling corridors. As millions of commuters stayed home for months, safety researchers hoped that less overall driving throughout 2020 would also mean fewer U.S. traffic fatalities — a faint silver lining amid a much-larger Covid-19 death toll.

But that last benefit did not come to pass. “We saw the opposite,” said Maureen Vogel, the communications director at the National Safety Council, an advocacy group. As many as 42,060 people died on U.S. roads last year, or 8% more than in 2019, according to preliminary data released by the NSC. Combined with a 13% decline in vehicle-miles traveled, the rate of death on American roads jumped 24% year over year — the sharpest spike the NSC has measured since 1924, Vogel said.


19 Apr 21 - 04:50 PM (#4102732)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

A new test for hospitals to determine immune responsess of the newly infected and predict severity. It is fom Marylnd.

Drivers here are goin faster on emptier roads


20 Apr 21 - 06:34 PM (#4102854)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: keberoxu

New news it is not, just an update. (sue me)

Last year, during the lockdown,
the Boston Marathon was postponed.
A great fuss, as it was unprecedented.

This year, as well, we have Patriot's Day week in April,
with ... no traditionally scheduled Boston Marathon.

This year's Boston Marathon will instead happen in October,
and the event is being publicized, with registration and all,
over the radio stations already.


21 Apr 21 - 02:33 PM (#4103004)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

If it is new, it is news. If it is an update, then it is an update.

This morning the New York Times published Nation Faces ‘Hand-to-Hand Combat’ to Get Reluctant Americans Vaccinated

Half of American adults have received at least one shot of the coronavirus vaccine. Now comes the hard part: persuading the other half to get it.

State health officials, business leaders, policymakers and politicians are struggling to figure out how to tailor their messages, and their tactics, to persuade not only the vaccine hesitant but also the indifferent. The work will be labor intensive, much of it may fall on private employers — but the risk is clear: if it takes too long to reach “herd immunity” — the point at which the spread of the virus slows — worrisome new variants could emerge that evade the vaccine.

“If you think of this as a war,” said Michael Carney, the senior vice president for emerging issues at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Foundation, “we’re about to enter the hand-to-hand combat phase of the war.”


21 Apr 21 - 02:37 PM (#4103005)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

And while I'm at it, there is this:

Amy Klobuchar takes aim at 12 vaccine misinformation influencers

People like "Dr." Mercola who used to simply offer alternative information about medical stuff are now batshit crazy lunatic fringe purveyors of anti-science trash, with the COVID vaccines in their mangled messages.


22 Apr 21 - 04:27 PM (#4103147)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

! Pregnant women are advised to use Pfizer vaccine.
2 Long haulers note slight improvement after vaccination regarding brain fog.


22 Apr 21 - 04:32 PM (#4103149)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

India is facing some of the worst crimes of pandemic including rampant stealing of vaccine and medications while infection rates climb.


23 Apr 21 - 11:48 AM (#4103246)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Two weeks ago I got my first haircut in 14 months, and I left behind about 10 inches of hair because I had to cut to shoulder length after wearing it longer for a while.


25 Apr 21 - 10:52 AM (#4103465)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

India has a prime minister equally as foolish as Trump was when he was running things here. Modi allowed a lot of huge religious events to go forward earlier this spring and now, to absolutely no one's surprise, the virus has exploded into the population. The cremation sites are running non-stop, making me wonder if the air quality and deforestation that are now a part of this epidemic will make people even more miserable (bad air and floods). Enlarged photo.


25 Apr 21 - 12:06 PM (#4103470)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

From the New York Times Millions Are Skipping Their Second Doses of Covid Vaccines

Millions of Americans are not getting the second doses of their Covid-19 vaccines, and their ranks are growing.

More than five million people, or nearly 8 percent of those who got a first shot of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, have missed their second doses, according to the most recent data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That is more than double the rate among people who got inoculated in the first several weeks of the nationwide vaccine campaign.

Even as the country wrestles with the problem of millions of people who are wary about getting vaccinated at all, local health authorities are confronting an emerging challenge of ensuring that those who do get inoculated are doing so fully.

The reasons vary for why people are missing their second shots. In interviews, some said they feared the side effects, which can include flulike symptoms. Others said they felt that they were sufficiently protected with a single shot.

Those attitudes were expected, but another hurdle has been surprisingly prevalent. A number of vaccine providers have canceled second-dose appointments because they ran out of supply or didn’t have the right brand in stock.


Troubling news.


25 Apr 21 - 12:12 PM (#4103471)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

The video that plays at the beginning seems to be unrelated to the story.

Spanish man charged with infecting 22 people with COVID-19

MADRID -- A Spanish man with COVID-19 symptoms who coughed on work colleagues and told them “I’m going to give you all the coronavirus” has been charged with intentionally causing injury after allegedly infecting 22 people.

Spanish police said their investigation began after a COVID-19 outbreak at the company where the 40-year-old man worked on the Mediterranean island of Mallorca.

Days before the outbreak, the man showed COVID-19 symptoms but refused his colleagues’ suggestions to go home and self-isolate, police said in a statement.

After work, and showing no improvement, he went for a PCR test before visiting a gym and returning to work the next day. Though his superiors told him to go home after he allegedly had showed a temperature of 40 degrees Celsius, the man refused.

He walked around his workplace, lowering his face mask and coughing on people, saying “I’m going to infect you all with the coronavirus,” according to police.

At the end of the day, his PCR test came back positive. His colleagues were then tested, with five returning positive results. They in turn infected family members, including three infants, police said. At the gym the man visited, three people tested positive and also infected family members.

None of those infected required hospitalization, police said.

A judge charged the man, who was not identified by police, and released him on Saturday evening to await trial, Spain’s Europa Press news agency reported.


25 Apr 21 - 12:15 PM (#4103472)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Gum disease linked to severe COVID-19 outcomes

The start of the story:

One of the more perplexing things about COVID-19 is its wide range of outcomes in people who get the disease. A new study from researchers at McGill University in Toronto, Canada, finds a link between gums with inflammation and infection and COVID-19 complications and deaths.

The study finds that people with periodontitis are 8.8 times more likely to die of COVID-19.

In addition, such individuals are 3.5 times more likely to require hospitalization for COVID-19 and 4.5 times more likely to require a ventilator.


27 Apr 21 - 02:21 PM (#4103730)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

I read that on gum disease too, thanks.


28 Apr 21 - 03:43 AM (#4103802)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

I believe that there has been previous research on a link between periodontitis and heart disease. Not sure that any firm link has been established.


28 Apr 21 - 07:18 PM (#4103908)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Raindog there is a connection particularly with tooth and pericardial infections. (heart lining infections)


29 Apr 21 - 11:00 AM (#4103965)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

Arundhati Roy on the horror in India


29 Apr 21 - 06:28 PM (#4104012)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Tattie Bogle

Periodontitis has been linked to Subacute Bacterial Endocarditis (not pericarditis) for well over 50 years - nothing new: anyone with mitral or aortic valve disease is given prophylactic antibiotics before any dental treatment, although our lecturers used to tell us that just brushing your teeth sends off a shower of bacteria into your bloodstream!


30 Apr 21 - 03:47 AM (#4104030)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

I would like to make a call for tolerance of others views on the pandemic.
i have noticed one mudcat member who is threatening to block any facebook user who has a different view to him on the pandemic.
i have had my first vacc ,but i respect those people who have decided for religous or other reasons not to be vaccinated that is their choice, they are a minority and should not be victimised. i do not want to live in a totalitarian society, . the establishment rules by division


30 Apr 21 - 04:32 AM (#4104033)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Quite so, Dick, but blocking someone on Facebook is a choice in the same way as not taking the vaccine is a choice. Telling the world that you're not having the vaccine is also a choice, as is telling the world that you'll block a vaccine-refuser. Whilst it's a free country, I'd suggest that vaccine-refusers would be better served if they kept it to themselves. All too often, they go large with their prejudiced and ill-informed views, and the last thing we want, in my opinion, is for their vexatious assertions to be sowing doubt and fear. There's nothing tolerant about that.


30 Apr 21 - 04:58 AM (#4104037)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

it is not as simple as that. i have seen people who do not weara masks attacked verbally in supermarkets by budding fascists who then forget about the two meter rule when they harangue the non mask wearer, really silly behaviour, if someone does not want or has a good reason for not wearing a mask give them distance,
we still do not know how effective masks are although they reduce the risk to some extent.if vaccination is effective we hopefully will not need to wear masks
while i do not think this has been planned it has been an unintentional experiment in controlling people dividing people and ruling. meanwhile the pharmacuetical c0mpanies have been profiting, small businesses have suffered but multi national capitalism gets stronger. we do not need over zealous fascists going around haranguing people the majority of people are getting vaccinated


30 Apr 21 - 05:43 AM (#4104041)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

There is never justification for haranguing non-mask wearers. The reasons for some people being exempt are never visibly apparent. I'm fairly deaf, and that doesn't show either. I'm thinking of wearing a big badge that says SPEAK UP. As for the vaccines, if you don't want them that's fine, though you could be misinformed. That also doesn't show up unless you crow about it telling everyone that Bill Gates wants to control us all, etc. If you do that kind of thing you deserve what you get, in my opinion.


30 Apr 21 - 05:46 AM (#4104043)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Fascist this and fascist that.

I have not seen anyone challenged by a member of the public for not wearing a mask. Mask wearing in shops is fairly good on the whole here.

While I do not condone anyone for being verbally aggressive about non mask wearing, none of us know why they do it. They might have lost a relative to covid, lost their business because of covid or lost their job working for a fascist big business because of covid.

Now if you want to talk about fascist behaviour. I had 2 visits to a & e last month. Had a fascist security guy take my temperature, had to wait behind fascist lines on the ground, asked questions by another mask wearing fascist, told where to walk to and where to stand while waiting. Most of the staff were wearing fascist uniforms. And then they ended.up giving me two fascist prescriptions for stuff that made little to know difference.

Do have to say that the staff and patients were all pleasant apart from their fascist behaviour.


30 Apr 21 - 09:02 AM (#4104057)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

as i have said i am taking the vaccinations,i do not know whether gates is behind this but i doubt it. i find it an intersting psychological comment when people have to anno8nce on facebook they are blocking anyone who disgrees with their view on covi 19, it looks to me they are trying to show power, why announce it


30 Apr 21 - 11:54 AM (#4104083)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

rain dog it is not fascist this or that, but very specific behaviour during the pandemic[haranguing non mask wearers whilst forgeting about social distancing[ which i have seen ] is totalitarian in nature] your bizarre remark about the wonderful Underpaid nhs staff is nor relevant. the sort ofbehaviour i have described is reminscentto me of the people who as soon as they put on a uniform seem to become power crazy. the vast majority of people are getting vaccinated . the astra zeneca vaccine delay in the eu was not a fault of the eu ,it was the fault of the manufacturers not producing as many or supplying as many to the eu as promised ..they are now being sued.
now that vaccination is progressing it is time for governments and people to chill out a bit.
i too was in and e 10 days ag0 i had a small stroke the staff were pleasant and efficient.
your attempts at humour are not very funny


30 Apr 21 - 03:17 PM (#4104103)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

I usually challenge people who won't wear masks in public. They are putting other people's lives at risk and I have NO obligation to be in any way polite to them. I want them out of the door, and fuck their "exemptions".


30 Apr 21 - 06:27 PM (#4104122)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Me too, Jack Campin. I ask if they fotgot it. Loudly but politely.


30 Apr 21 - 07:14 PM (#4104124)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I am definitely no mask advocate. My opinion is that they don't do any good and that they are used as a blunt instrument of control. However, we live in vulnerable times and I think that putting on a mask doesn't hurt. We bite the bullet.


01 May 21 - 03:13 AM (#4104138)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

jack campin do you do this whilst goose stepping. aggression meets with agression. jack campin mussolin would love you


01 May 21 - 03:49 AM (#4104141)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Australia has just made it illegal for its citizens to return home from India

Australia bans its own citizens from returning home


01 May 21 - 03:55 AM (#4104142)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn

There is breaking the rules and breaking the rules - but all through the pandemic there has also been a number of rabid don't do this or don't do that type people.

One local FB user during the first lock down vented from her house in St Boswells that "it is like Piccadilly Circus out there......counted over 30 people go past in the last half an hour.............and some have backpacks so obviously going further than allowed"

I thought the obsession of sitting at your window counting how many people were going past was weird in the extreme. And 30 people in 30 minutes is hardly Piccadilly Circus anyway. And backpacks are good for putting things like coats and cameras etc in even if not walking that far. You were allowed to go for an hour's walk even at the height of the first lock down here so no-one was necessarily breaking any rule. Yet this person thought everyone should stay in their homes like prisoners just because she was.

Then there was another who went to Lidl but saw the big queue and decided to not bother - so she went home and vented about all the sefish b******* going shopping for their drink and BBQ food etc. Yet they were only doing exactly the same as she intended doing. Shop!

There has been some strange behaviour though on the most part folks have been great.


01 May 21 - 04:35 AM (#4104144)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

mrzy, do you know if you spoke to me loudly and politely. i might do the hokey cokey


01 May 21 - 05:28 AM (#4104148)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

It's going to be impossible to contain the new Indian variants to India - it's just too big and too linked with the rest of the world.

What the rest of the world can do is not fuck their response up as badly as India has done. The American South looks like flushing itself down the same toilet.

The UK coped with the smoking ban fairly well - hardly anyone flouts it and the change was quick. Mask refusal is much more dangerous and happens much more often. And the tobacco industry didn't put up that much of a fight. The implication is that whoever's backing mask refusal, as a collective thing, is a more effective and better organized enemy of the mass of humanity than even Big Tobacco was.


01 May 21 - 09:23 AM (#4104172)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Shake it all about, then snort it [grin]?


02 May 21 - 12:25 PM (#4104332)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

I have not seen anyone challenged by a member of the public for not wearing a mask. Mask wearing in shops is fairly good on the whole here.

and


There is never justification for haranguing non-mask wearers. The reasons for some people being exempt are never visibly apparent.


I have to disagree with both of these remarks. People do challenge non-mask wearers here, because at this point it is obvious to most people that we're doing the heavy lifting in trying to prevent this pandemic from spreading and these freeloaders are the ones who are going to keep it going for a lot longer than needed.

If you can't wear a mask, then don't go out. Take care of business out-of-doors or have things delivered. Don't wander around stores and other places where your presence is entirely discretionary with no mask. The lion's share of unmasked people are scofflaws and Trump supporters who think their freedom to spread disease outweighs the good of the society at large.


02 May 21 - 12:57 PM (#4104335)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

So someone who genuinely can't wear a mask is confined to quarters? Sheesh... And the other thing is that you seem to be assuming that not wearing a mask is THE cause of the spread. Well I disagree. The reasons this is a global pandemic is that international travel has been allowed, and don't get me started on lax procedures in shops, public transport and care homes. This virus spreads from country to country via international travel and from person to person when lots of people congregate in crowded places. Round here, everyone complies with the mask-wearing obligation. But mask-abuse is the norm. A paper mask used for day after day. Ill-fitting masks. Mask stowed under the chin. Noses scratched through a mask or sticking out over the top of the mask. Discarded mask litter everywhere. Mask wearers thinking that keeping your distance doesn't matter as long as your mask is on.

It's notable that island countries with sparse populations (Australia, New Zealand) have been only lightly affected. Also, they have been very strict apropos of their borders. Cornwall, where I live, is a big county with a small population. Our case numbers have consistently been been among the lowest in the country. Take a clue from all that. The occasional mask rebel you see (hardly any round here) probably isn't infected anyway. It would take an awful lot of mask rebels to pose much of a threat, even if masks did work. I don't think masks do much good at all and I haven't seen strong evidence to the contrary. I am not even remotely a mask rebel, not because I don't think that masks are almost useless but because I don't want to make anyone I encounter in a shop to feel insecure.


02 May 21 - 01:39 PM (#4104341)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

The lion's share of unmasked people are scofflaws and Trump supporters who think their freedom to spread disease outweighs the good of the society at large.
well there are not many trump supporters in ireland but there are some non mask wearers some of them have had both vaccinations, Maggie you are ignorant of the situation in ireland


02 May 21 - 02:56 PM (#4104354)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

The most prominent agitator for mask refusal in Ireland is Dolores Cahill of the Irish Freedom Party. Whose politics is straight-out delusional Trumpism.


02 May 21 - 03:00 PM (#4104355)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Dick, no, I haven't been to Ireland, I haven't researched COVID around the world, so in the context of a TRUMP remark you can safely assume I'm speaking of the United States. And we were speaking of INDOORS, where everyone should still be wearing masks. In the US those of us who have been fully vaccinated can go without masks out of doors in open settings with small vaccinated groups.

Steve you can rant on about global travel being at fault but when it comes down to it, people in close contact with people is how it spreads, wherever they are from. It is a courtesy to others to still wear the mask indoors even if you are fully vaccinated. There are break-out cases where vaccinated people can still catch COVID-19. They can be sick for many days, most likely at home. They can still possibly spread to others.

As the Instagram and Twitter hashtag says, #WearTheDamnMask


02 May 21 - 04:18 PM (#4104367)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

it is also spread by lack of ventilation in buildings, hospitals, schools, supermarkets, they need to be redesigned too, masks are only part of the solution and are not as important as ventilation, some hopitals need to be redesigned specifically to deal with viruses, regardless of masks.


02 May 21 - 04:39 PM (#4104373)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

no offence intended, maggie, hopefully we will meet in heaven playing the harp but not just yet


03 May 21 - 08:04 AM (#4104452)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Simply put in a time of pandemic you have to imagine yourself differently. I believe most of us have. Those who can not, deserve to be shunned and distanced be it for academic, ignorant or imagined reasons.

That goes for for some in the CDC to the most dysfunctional Trumper.


03 May 21 - 09:38 AM (#4104467)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

A month old but does not appear to have been mentioned here.

Nature 7th April 2021

"As COVID-19 cases surge again in the United States, coronavirus variants are on the rise. But researchers fear that the country is ramping up surveillance of the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 too slowly, allowing these variants — which evidence shows1,2 could make vaccines less effective — to spread undetected in one of the countries hit hardest by the disease.

Laboratories supported by the US government have doubled the rate at which they are sequencing SARS-CoV-2 genomes over the past two months. Still, the number of genomes that the country shared in the online genome repository GISAID in March represented only 1.6% of its positive COVID-19 cases that month. And the United States lags behind at least 30 countries in terms of the sequencing it has done throughout the pandemic, according to GISAID data"

Full article here

Why US coronavirus tracking can’t keep up with concerning variants


03 May 21 - 09:42 AM (#4104470)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

I saw several articles this morning that say the US will not reach herd immunity.


03 May 21 - 10:08 AM (#4104474)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

From The Guardian today

"New Zealand’s customs agency has fired nine border workers who refused to get the Covid-19 vaccine. The country has required all frontline border workers to be vaccinated by the end of April.

In February, the prime minister, Jacinda Ardern, said the government would not be making the vaccine compulsory for frontline staff, and that those who declined the vaccine would be moved into backroom roles.

But no other work could be found to redeploy the nine workers who were in fixed term employment at the maritime border, Jacinda Funnell, Customs’ deputy chief executive for people and capability, said."

New Zealand fires nine border workers who refused Covid vaccine


03 May 21 - 10:36 AM (#4104481)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

double mutant variant


03 May 21 - 10:43 AM (#4104482)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jon Freeman

Donuel:
Simply put
Are you capable of doing that. I usually find you as incomprehensible.


03 May 21 - 11:29 AM (#4104490)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

The whole herd immunity thing was put succinctly on a radio interview today. During a pandemic we live in a time of great personal sacrifice for the greater good. Too many people don't understand that, or have decided the political response is their approach rather than an altruistic attitude. Simply put.


03 May 21 - 04:05 PM (#4104549)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

What is the remedy when someone offends an entire country or world?
Facebook is about to review their decision to deplateform Donald Trump. Florida adds its 2 cents by signing a law to fine Faceebook $250,000 if they deplateform anyone without warning and other things...
what to do what to do?!
signed, the incomprehensible one :^?


03 May 21 - 05:52 PM (#4104565)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

299 people in the US are confirmed to have died of COVID-19 yesterday. One day total is the equivalent of an airliner crash, but it passes by barely remarked on.

There are a lot of people out there not pulling their weight when it comes to protecting others. And so many have died that the tragedy of deaths now is that they are viewed as business as usual.


03 May 21 - 06:20 PM (#4104571)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

In this country we have had mixed messages from the top for well over a year. There has been massive confusion about what you can or can't do, what's legal and what's illegal, starting or ending on this date or that. We've had a labyrinthine four-tier system of restrictions that even the politicians didn't understand. We've had hubris from Johnson about defeating the virus in twelve weeks. We've had Tory little-England exceptionalism. We've had a government test and trace app costing tens of billions that doesn't work. You can be in trouble with the law if you fail to self-isolate when the app tells you to, but you don't even have to have the bloody app! We've had delayed lockdowns that have cost thousands of lives. We've had untested sick people sent from hospital into care homes. Tens of thousands of old people have died as a result. We are currently talking up the shining possibility of foreign holidays and our borders are way too porous and quarantine has, at times, been de facto voluntary.

So I don't want to hear about ordinary people being blamed. Of course, there will always be a few. Round here, people all comply valiantly with all the rules when they can, but it's often impossible, in free-for-all supermarkets for example. Everybody round here wears a mask when required. The people in this country have been very good about this. So I'm not accepting blame. It might be different in America, I wouldn't know. But we have leaders who are supposed to lead, not confuse us. We have done it in spite of our leaders. I want to see them promoting a national sense of communal responsibility, predicated on sound, clear advice and abundant information. There has been little sign of a coordinated effort to do that. So put the blame where it truly lies, not on a few renegade non-mask wearers.


03 May 21 - 06:55 PM (#4104577)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

New York Times review of Michael Lewis's book The Premonition - A Pandemic Story

New York Times review

It was an extract from the book in The UK Sunday Times that surprised me with the news of the genome tracking in th US


03 May 21 - 08:41 PM (#4104588)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

We will have to agree to disagree about who spreads it. There is plenty of blame to go around though your pronouncements suggest any other opinion is tepid. There is PLENTY of information here in the US, but unfortunately the Resident of the White House for four years was averse to science and facts. And his followers have piled on in arguing against common sense personal behavior. Those individuals are definitely part of the problem. Modi in India is a Little Trump on a much larger stage. He bears a considerable part of the blame, and it trickles down through his chosen administrators if they dismiss medical facts.


03 May 21 - 09:12 PM (#4104594)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Raindog, thanks for posting it first. Prmonition is worth its weight in gold.


03 May 21 - 09:16 PM (#4104595)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

And your pronouncements about the efficacy of masks, even going so far as to say that people who genuinely can't wear them shouldn't leave their houses, are made with such certainty that you make other opinions look more than tepid. I'm quite happy that we can disagree on this, but you must accept that flaccid leadership in your country, my country, India, Brazil and elsewhere, and leaky national borders, have played a massive part in making this a GLOBAL pandemic. You can hit out at mask rebels all you like but you won't stop them from being rebels (by rebels I mean refusers, by the way, not reluctant compliers like me), and, as I sort of said before, out of a hundred or two mask rebels it could be that one or none will actually have the infection. That doesn't remotely make them right or safe, but we need to get a grip on where the real problem lies. It is terrible leadership and mass movement of people, mostly for slight reasons, across international borders. This virus doesn't have wings. And at least on this side of the ocean compliance with the rules has been generally pretty good. The people have done well, we have few cases compared to most other countries but our government is seriously adept at throwing away the advantage, as it seems about to do again apropos of allowing foreign holidays both in and out of the country. Unfocussed blaming ordinary people is futile and negative and won't change anything for the better.


03 May 21 - 09:17 PM (#4104596)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

WTF is a "prmonition"!?


03 May 21 - 11:01 PM (#4104606)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

A typo.

And again, Steve, we must agree to disagree because I think your view discounts the incredible impact individual participation can make when people resolve to do things effectively to protect themselves and those around them. Now enough already.


04 May 21 - 01:58 AM (#4104614)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

i agree with Steve Shaw.
INDIVIDUAL PARTICIPATION is infentiisimal compared to well thought government strategy. ventilation of buildings design of buildings to deal with viral infection etc.. is just as important as wearing a mask[a mask that may have been handled or dirty etc ]


04 May 21 - 04:27 AM (#4104622)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Are you reading my posts, Maggie? Did you see the bit that said And at least on this side of the ocean compliance with the rules has been generally pretty good. The people have done well? How does that compute with "I think your view discounts the incredible impact individual participation can make when people resolve to do things effectively to protect themselves and those around them," pray tell?


04 May 21 - 04:32 AM (#4104623)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

By the way, in a discussion forum in which I'm putting my point of view in a direct yet polite and carefully constructed manner (which is what we are supposedly here to do), I think that trying to shut someone down by telling them "enough already" comes across as somewhat jarring and even just a tad authoritarian...


04 May 21 - 05:20 AM (#4104632)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

"WTF is a "prmonition"!?"

I had a feeling that Donuel was going to spell it like that.


04 May 21 - 06:32 AM (#4104643)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

As typos go, I really like Sandman's 'infentiisimal'.

It made my morning (I'm easily pleased), and I had no problem understanding it.


04 May 21 - 07:05 AM (#4104648)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Stilly River Sage posted:
"299 people in the US are confirmed to have died of COVID-19 yesterday. One day total is the equivalent of an airliner crash, but it passes by barely remarked on."

There have been a number of discussions here in the UK about number of covid deaths or number of excess deaths.

The following article in today's Guardian was a sobering read.

"A 30 year old American is three times more likely to die at that age than his or her European peers. In fact, Americans do worse at just about every age. To make matters more grim, the American disadvantage is growing over time.

In 2017, for example, higher American mortality translated into roughly 401,000 excess deaths – deaths that would not have occurred if the US had Europe’s lower age-specific death rates. Pre-pandemic, that 401,000 is about 12% of all American deaths. The percentage is even higher below age 85, where one in four Americans die simply because they do not live in Europe"

Why do Americans die earlier than Europeans?


04 May 21 - 07:05 AM (#4104649)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Whether I spot my own typing errors depends on whether I'm not wearing my reading specs (lethal), using my iPhone (severe), both those at once (which generally means I'm posting whilst still in bed, leaning up on one elbow), or using my iPad mini (mild to moderate). It's rarely worth picking anyone up for their little peccadillos, unless, of course, they're having a go at me for mine. Then it can become open season, as Nigel will tell you... ;-)


04 May 21 - 07:25 AM (#4104654)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

amny way i now have marked 3 people on this forum, who i reckon would love to put on a uniform and start goosestepping


04 May 21 - 04:34 PM (#4104749)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

INDIVIDUAL PARTICIPATION is infentiisimal compared to well thought government strategy. ventilation of buildings design of buildings to deal with viral infection etc.. is just as important as wearing a mask[a mask that may have been handled or dirty etc ]

Most public buildings put up in the last generation have terrible air circulation when aerosolized pathogens are the issue. The timescale we are dealing with is months, not decades. Masks can work that fast, rebuilding can't.


04 May 21 - 05:09 PM (#4104755)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

yes but we have had the pandemic for over a year , governments could have done it months ago. plus provide evidence of mask effectiveness, before you make such a statement.
yes, i wear a mask but i am not sure or have seen evidence of EXACTLY how effective masks are , have you?


04 May 21 - 05:36 PM (#4104759)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Take a me too from me, Dick.


04 May 21 - 05:55 PM (#4104764)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Stve and others say they have near perfect mask behavior which is all well and good. What irks me is his sour attitude about the whole thing.
I suspect the subject is more inflamatory here but maybe not.

And here are the wayward missing e,e,e's that perform poorly on this keyboard.

!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whoa, I think that was more Chinese rocket debris that just cratered in the backyard.


04 May 21 - 06:05 PM (#4104766)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

So when I went to a&e the other month would it have been ok to refuse to wear my mask?

Would it have been appropriate to say to the staff, why are you wearing those masks when there is a lack of evidence as to their efficacy?


04 May 21 - 06:22 PM (#4104770)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

We don't behave like that because, to put it as simply as I can, and not for the first time, we are in this together and we have no wish to make anyone else feel uncomfortable, insecure or vulnerable. It's a function of our accepting (contrary to many an accusation here) the fact that other people may not share our views, and may be even required to wear masks as part of their jobs. I don't go around feeling all hoity-toity about being "forced" to wear a mask. Like everybody else, I just put the bloody thing on then forget it. I have two friends who refuse to wear masks (and who think Bill Gates is out to get them), and I am extremely critical of them. Right?


04 May 21 - 06:30 PM (#4104771)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I'm rather pleased that my sour attitude irks you. I would much rather suffer from a sour attitude than your broadcasting of the fact that you appear to want the world to see you as a confounded and unstable idiot almost every time you post. Perhaps, after the last couple of days of your shameful posting, you would consider refraining from making any further stupid comments about me. You have nothing to say that I want to even remotely engage with apropos of the substantive issues of this and other threads, so let's just settle for that and avoid each other, please.


04 May 21 - 07:53 PM (#4104786)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Tattie Bogle

I worked in hospital operating theatres and other departments nearly 50 years ago: we all wore masks: surgeons, anaesthetists, nurses, theatre assistants, porters: no-one, but nobody at all was exempt. You just got used to it, wearing them all day, with maybe a new one after lunch if you got a break at all. So I am slightly sceptical of some modern-day claims to be exempted from wearing masks now: e.g. whole gangs of teenagers going into the local Co-op for their lunchtime fast food fix, ALL claiming they can’t wear masks as they have asthma!


04 May 21 - 08:18 PM (#4104789)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Well shops are entitled to refuse entry to non-mask wearers, to anyone at all actually, though it could be said that putting unfair burdens on shop staff, to require them to challenge customers, is a step too far. I agree that mask exemptions should be rare. It's hard to conjure up a sensible notion of some way of having instant identification of exempt people, a badge or sticker for example. However, I'm viscerally opposed to obliging anyone to publicly display an affliction. I'm deaf enough to struggle badly at supermarket checkouts when the shop is noisy and there's music on the tannoy, but I'm damned if I'm going to walk round town with a badge advertising the fact. I must be living in a very unrepresentative area, because I haven't seen this mask fake exemption problem round here.


05 May 21 - 09:10 AM (#4104856)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

It is well-documented that masks help. How much they help is irrelevent. They help.


05 May 21 - 09:35 AM (#4104870)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

That's as maybe. How much they help, if at all, can't be teased out from all the confounding factors such as social distancing and lockdown measures such as restricting indoor visits, closing pubs and restaurants, etc., and now vaccination. It's impossible to do a controlled experiment to isolate masks from all the other factors in order to glean their efficacy, but we can at least adopt a sort of precautionary principle. When you say they help you are speaking in hope, never from science. Which doesn't necessarily mean that you're wrong. Just don't go thinking that a mask makes you so safe that you can be all blasé. The people who breach the distancing rules in the shops round here are all wearing masks. What should I make of that, d'ye think? None of this is really the point. The point is that, whatever we think, we should stick a mask on when it's legally required. That way, no-one need feel more threatened or vulnerable than they need to. Fine by me. I'm have mask, will travel at all times. Sorry if I sound like Mr Spock.


05 May 21 - 09:43 AM (#4104871)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Incidentally,

"It is well-documented that..."

Look up "weasel words" on wiki. Goes nicely with "it is widely recognised that..." "experts have shown that..." "everyone knows that..."


05 May 21 - 01:59 PM (#4104910)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

There are numerous studies out there, but Steve (and anyone) is capable of searching for them. Living in the USA with its conspiracy theories and batshit crazy ideas, you can't dissuade people who believe that praying to little baby Jesus will prevent Covid because they're crazy. You can't convince people who rely on faith-based "medicine" that they're wrong, becausethey're crazy. You can't convince people who won't listen that "well documented" means there have been studies out the wazoo proving masks are effective that you're right, because they don't WANT to believe it. It's disappointing (I'm actually surprised), but there's a time to give up trying. Argument never changes anyone's mind.


05 May 21 - 02:10 PM (#4104911)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

Jeri it sounds like you are saying everyone who disagrees with you is crazy. Governments have had a year to redesign buildings , redesigm schools and hospitals, do we not pay politicians to govern and have long term plans , instead of which in the uk we have someone who is more concerned about redesigning a house in downing street , than governing responsibly planning to redesign some hospitals and schools to be effctive at spreading viruseses , how long do governments need?
of course its easy for governments to abdicate responsibilty and say everyone will have to wear masks and do nothing in a year to ventilate public buildings, its just passing the buck to the public.


05 May 21 - 02:21 PM (#4104912)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

"governing responsibly planning to redesign some hospitals and schools to be effctive at spreading viruseses"

Leaving aside the delightful typos, wouldn't making hospitals and schools "effective at spreading viruses" be irresponsible?


05 May 21 - 02:51 PM (#4104916)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

yes, very funny. you understand my point to make hospitals effective at preventing the spreading of viruses.
governments are passing the buck to ordinary people instead of doing their supposed job to protect the people is the job that they are supposed get paid for
if you are more concerned about typos, that reflects on your persona


05 May 21 - 04:05 PM (#4104924)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

And, Dick, it appears from their posts that Maggie, Jeri and Mrrzy have swallowed the propaganda from governments making it sound like we're all responsible for this pandemic because we don't wear masks (or because we don't like masks, or because we don't trust masks) hook, line and sinker. Nothing to do with governments' gross incompetence in their mishandling of things, of course, as I've listed several times. "There are numerous studies out there" is more weasel words. There have been no studies, and can't be any studies, that isolate mask-wearing from a number of confounding factors, as I said earlier. That is not unwishful thinking. That is science. Anecdotal "evidence" doesn't get over the high bar required by science. Anyway, my mask is always with me and I comply with all rules. That's what we should be doing, no messing. But we can still discuss masks, can't we.


05 May 21 - 04:38 PM (#4104926)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

Governments have had a year to redesign buildings , redesigm schools and hospitals

I once had a summer job standing up on a mobile scaffold with a glue brush and a roll of tape sealing leaks in the airconditioning ducts of a large glass cube modern hospital (50 years ago, but the design is not very different now). If one minor quality control glitch could give me a job for two months imagine what completely replacing the airflow systems of every glass cube building on earth would take.

It can't be done. But mask wearing is doable


05 May 21 - 05:01 PM (#4104930)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Jaysus, Jack, and here was me thinking that you were only 49...


05 May 21 - 05:27 PM (#4104938)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

if the nhs had not been deliberately run down and starved of money. it could have been done, mean while field hospitals standing empty.[more government incompetence]
it can be done if the government has the will instead they spend the moneyon other things .
jack when was the last time one fever hospital designed to cope with viruses was built.
we have a pandemic and the government of the uk is like nero fiddling while rome was burning ,
of course new hospitals can be built, but the conservative party has not and will not build them, they have spent billions listed below but not built one virus designed hospital designed specifically for virus pandemics HERE
The government failed to provide transparency when hastily awarding billions of pounds worth of contracts during the covid-19 pandemic, the UK’s public spending watchdog has concluded.

The National Audit Office (NAO) said that the government had failed to provide adequate documentation showing how some key decisions were reached, including why particular suppliers were chosen or how potential conflicts of interest were handled.

Some contracts were awarded after work had already begun, many were not published in the timeframe they should have been, and some conflicts of interest were not disclosed, a report1 by the auditors found.

The investigation into government procurement during the pandemic found that the government awarded over 8600 contracts worth £18bn (€20bn; $24bn) by 31 July, with most of these (£16.2bn worth) awarded by the Department of Health and Social Care and its national bodies.

Contracts totalling £10.5bn have been awarded without a competitive tender process, the NAO found.

Gareth Davies, the head of the NAO, said, “While we recognise that these were exceptional circumstances, it remains essential that decisions are properly documented and made transparent if government is to maintain public trust that taxpayers’ money is being spent appropriately and fairly. The evidence set out in our report shows that these standards of transparency and documentation were not consistently met in the first phase of the pandemic.”

Personal protective equipment (PPE) accounted for 80% of the number of contracts awarded (over 6900 contracts) and 68% of the total value (£12.3bn). The Department of Health and Social Care awarded contracts to 71 suppliers, worth £1.5bn in total, before its process to assess and process offers of support of PPE was standardised, the NAO found. Examples of contracts awarded retrospectively after work had already been carried out included £3.2m to Deloitte to support procurement of PPE on 21 July 2020.

The government also established a “high priority lane” to assess potential PPE sources referred by officials and politicians that were deemed more credible. About one in 10 suppliers processed through the high priority lane (47 out of 493) obtained contracts, compared with less than one in 100 suppliers that came through the ordinary lane (104 of 14?892). The NAO also found that sources of referrals to the high priority lane were not always documented, with one supplier, PestFix, added in error without a referral.

A clear trail of documents to support key procurement decisions was sometimes missing, the auditors said.

The NAO also reported that many of the contracts awarded have not been published in a timely manner. By 10 November 2020, details were still missing for 55% of the 1644 contracts worth more than £25?000 awarded up to the end of July 2020, and only 25% were published within the 90 day target.

If a similar situation arises again, the government should identify and manage potential conflicts of interest and bias earlier in the procurement process and ensure that basic information on contracts are published within 90 days of award, the auditors concluded.

Meg Hillier, chair of the Commons Committee of Public Accounts, said, “Even in an emergency, public procurements need to get the basics right. Clearly, too many didn’t.

“The mistakes revealed by this report are likely to be only the tip of the iceberg.”

This article is made freely available for use in accordance with BMJ's website terms and conditions for the duration of the covid-19 pandemic or until otherwise determined by BMJ. You may use, download and print the article for any lawful, non-commercial purpose (including text and data mining) provided that all copyright notices and trade marks are retained.
https://bmj.com/coronavirus/usage


05 May 21 - 05:51 PM (#4104941)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

I wasn't just thinking of hospitals. Our local education authority has been replacing old schools (with windows that open, so every classroom was independently ventilated) with big glass boxes sold as "community hubs" and funded by PFI (the Blair/Brown scam). My wife went to Pilates classes in one. The windowless room they got had NO air inlets at all - it just used whatever air flowed through the cracks from neighbouring rooms or in the door when you opened it. If you used it now you'd be inhaling viruses that had drifted the length of the building through at least two other rooms.


05 May 21 - 09:22 PM (#4104964)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

A new problem needs a solution regarding graduating doctors being left out in the cold because of residency requirments. There are not enough residencies to go around.


08 May 21 - 11:36 AM (#4105270)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

NYC is still storing 750 covid vidtims in deeo freeze refridgeration trailers while poorer families are trying ti resov the burials.


09 May 21 - 09:24 AM (#4105384)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

I wonder if Biden's infrastructure plan innvolves virus-proofing hospitals. That would be a great idea.


11 May 21 - 08:08 AM (#4105652)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

Bad news from India:

Mucormycosis

Massive underreporting


12 May 21 - 08:34 PM (#4105858)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Are ‘covid nails’ a sign you had the virus? Experts weigh in.

At this point in the pandemic, the coronavirus’s devastating effects on the human body have been well documented. But unusual symptoms that may be connected to the virus continue to crop up, including “covid toes,” “covid tongue” and hair loss.

Now, news reports and social media posts have documented visible changes in the nails of some covid-19 survivors, most commonly in the form of horizontal grooves. Dubbed “COVID nails” by a U.K.-based epidemiologist who tweeted about the markings earlier this month, the anecdotal reports have prompted assertions that it could be a way to tell whether you’ve had the virus.


The changes are a result of "Beau's lines" - “a temporary interruption in the nail growth.”

Twitter post by Tim Spector about "COVID nails" included has some oddball responses.

News reports and social media posts aren't science. Consider this a source of anecdotal coincidences that could lead to something but are more likely to mean nothing.


12 May 21 - 08:52 PM (#4105863)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I've had horizontal grooves on my nails for decades.


13 May 21 - 12:42 AM (#4105868)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

Two new outbreaks in Scotland, after the number of new cases had been reduced to near zero.

One at a secondary school in Elgin, the other at a primary school in Midlothian.

Given the much too rapid reduction in precautions in schools across the UK, I expect there will be more.


13 May 21 - 05:37 AM (#4105877)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

all the more reaon scotland and the uk should be ventilating schools, or even starting to build new schools. building new schools also boosts the economy if you accept keynsian economics


13 May 21 - 10:14 PM (#4105977)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Today for the United States, the CDC lifted the mask wearing for fully-vaccinated adults outdoors, indoors, with fully-vaccinated adults. They are still required on rapid transit, in businesses that require masks, when flying, and in health care facilities. They are advised in really crowded buildings, at large sporting events, in mixed-vaccination crowds.


13 May 21 - 11:59 PM (#4105986)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

What is Long COVID and how do you treat it?

It sounds like an incredible number of people are dealing with this.

Although most people who are infected will develop mild or moderate symptoms -- or none at all -- scientists are now researching another way COVID-19 continues to stagger and show up, sometimes for months or even a year.

"Long COVID," also referred to as "Long-Haul COVID or Post-COVID syndrome" is a condition where a person continues to experience symptoms of COVID-19 after their body has cleared the virus. Long COVID is under the umbrella of Post-COVID conditions, which the CDC describes as "new, returning or ongoing health problems" caused by the disease more than a month after infection.

News of potential COVID "long-haulers" in the US has been circulating for more than a year, and experts are still working on collecting data to best assess who's at risk of developing the syndrome. Right now, research suggests even those who have mild cases of COVID-19 can develop Long COVID. One study found that 27% of patients with COVID-19 who hadn't been hospitalized had persisting symptoms, and another found that about 75% of patients who had been hospitalized developed Long COVID.


14 May 21 - 01:20 AM (#4105994)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman

politicians and governments across the world should be looking at long term ways of dealing with this virus . programmes similiar to roosevelts new deal need to be implemented whereby certain numbers of new schools and public buildings are redesigned and built ,so that people in buildings are less liklely to spread the virus


14 May 21 - 06:20 AM (#4106010)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

In the US THE GARGANTUAN POLIITIZATION OF MASKS IS OVER.
The CDC has lifted the mask mandate!


14 May 21 - 08:02 AM (#4106014)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

An anti-airborne-virus public building programme would risk becoming another Maginot Line - generals preparing for the last war. Climate change means the infrastructure might need to cope with insect-vectored disease, extreme wind storms, snow loading on roofs, flash flooding, forest fires, breaks in transport and communication links from sea level rise and storm surges, breached contaminant stores... the safer option is to hold back on massive investment until we know what we're dealing with.

Better not to destroy what we already have. Ols schools work okay and are flexible to upgrade. It's like trees - old trees soak up far more carbon than young ones; cutting and replanting is always nett destruction.


14 May 21 - 10:07 AM (#4106021)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

First off, it will take a while for me to feel ok with NOT wearing a mask in public.

The question was asked at the President's news conference (I THINK it was, anyway) about "how do we know if other people not wearing masks have actually been vaccinated?" The answer, to paraphrase, was "it's THEIR problem". If they're vulnerable and want to risk it, they can."
There are some folks who CAN'T be vaccinated, and so could be infected, but they're probably wearing masks.

A big "so what?!" sort of squashes the tendency to mind everyone else's business.


14 May 21 - 10:21 AM (#4106023)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

An article by the German virologist Christian Drosten was circulated a few days ago. His take is that virtually everyone who isn't vaccinated will get it. There is always going to be a large enough core of unvaccinated (and possibly unvaccinatable) people to keep the virus in circulation.

The "core model" was developed as a description of gonorrhoea - the ultra-promiscuous keep it going by playing pass-the-parcel with germs and every so often a bystander gets pulled in. Surprising to see it turn up again with anti-vaxxers playing the role of hookers.


14 May 21 - 11:29 AM (#4106039)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

The wording also said that you should wear a mask in businesses that still require masks. They may have a workforce that is younger and not yet fully vaccinated and want to protect them. Like Jill Biden quipped the other day, she felt naked being in public without the mask. I'll be looping one around my neck to have handy (as I do every morning when I'm getting ready to go out). There are a lot of unvaccinated people here and you can catch the virus after being vaccinated, so I'll err on the side of caution for a while longer.

Jeri, I recently got some fabric for making Pride masks this year. I'll send you some when they're made. (I also have black with music, yellow with chickens, black with dinosaurs, and a bunch of other leftover prints.)


15 May 21 - 04:22 AM (#4106108)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

12 people are responsible for most of the world's Covid misinformation


17 May 21 - 09:14 AM (#4106350)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

A prudent person is aware that fully vaccinated people are not all immune to all varients for all time.

Certain situations are ideal for infections and therefore make continued use of masks a wise decision.


17 May 21 - 10:32 AM (#4106360)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

I have no personal fears about getting Covid now, as I'm fully vaccinated. But I'm in a minority, so I still wear a mask in indoor public spaces like buses and shops. It sets an example.

We are heading for in Scotland again, with the Indian variant getting imported thanks to the Johnson regime sucking up to Modi and a fascist/unionist riot in Glasgow last weekend spreading it as far as possible from the currently worst affected district in the country. Bottom line is that the British junta is using biological warfare against us. The death toll could well end up higher than what Saddam Hussein inflicted on rebel cities with poison gas.


18 May 21 - 02:07 PM (#4106538)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

Not Donald Trump this time.

Oxygen up your bum

If you're a rat or a pig anyway.


23 May 21 - 06:30 PM (#4107283)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

Johnson stopped English schools from finding out about the risks of the Indian variant:

Guardian article


25 May 21 - 05:30 PM (#4107575)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: leeneia

I get a magazine called 'The Week.' It reports that some people have trained honeybees to detect Covid in humans. It remains to be seen if the method is practical.


25 May 21 - 08:43 PM (#4107583)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Dogs too.


01 Jun 21 - 12:20 PM (#4108434)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

From The Guardian today

"Coronavirus variants are to be named after letters of the Greek alphabet instead of their place of first discovery, the World Health Organization has announced, in a move to avoid stigma."


01 Jun 21 - 12:47 PM (#4108443)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Stupid idea, winkie wankie wokie nonsense!


01 Jun 21 - 05:28 PM (#4108471)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

Never mind the w-w-wie nonsense or otherwise, a b c d, or alpha beta gamma delta, are MUCH easier to remember.


02 Jun 21 - 10:16 AM (#4108540)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

It's now "variant alpha" but it will always be the Ashford Horror to its friends.


15 Jun 21 - 03:52 PM (#4110286)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

People have been looking into the smell-and-taste connection with Covid-19, and found an interesting relationship between the "supertaster" genetics and likelihood of severe covid. I found one thing on it in todays WashPo health section, but there are surely others.

Blicky.


15 Jun 21 - 04:09 PM (#4110288)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

"Never mind the w-w-wie nonsense or otherwise, a b c d, or alpha beta gamma delta, are MUCH easier to remember."

No it's not. Even our Indian neighbours are not surprised about the Indian variant, they always say how dirty it's become there, no social distancing at all.


15 Jun 21 - 10:47 PM (#4110313)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Blicky that actually goes to the article, wups


16 Jun 21 - 04:41 AM (#4110334)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

"Even our Indian neighbours are not surprised about the Indian variant, they always say how dirty it's become there, no social distancing at all."

So-called variants of this virus arise via mutations, and that process has nothing to do with cleanliness or social distancing. I'd remind you that an earlier variant that took the country over arose in Kent. I'm assuming that you don't regard the people of Kent as egregiously filthy rule-breakers...


16 Jun 21 - 05:57 AM (#4110336)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

I was relieved to hear someone yesterday on the radio talking about getting the vaccine "into people" - NOT "into arms". In the whole interview arms were not mentioned.
I am not just an arm. I am a person, free to think, free to act, free to make decisions for myself.


16 Jun 21 - 08:07 AM (#4110350)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

I would imagine there are lockdown rulebreakers everywhere!!


16 Jun 21 - 09:27 AM (#4110358)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

Jos:
Yes, the vaccine jabs are going into whole people, not just 'arms'.
Of course, there are other common sites for injections.
Can we assume that for the anti-vax people "injections are not going into arses!"


16 Jun 21 - 11:31 AM (#4110376)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: SPB-Cooperator

Johnson LIED again during PMQs stating that the delta variant did not exist until24th April, so was the patient who was diagnosed wit it on 1st April faking his or her own infection?

Apparently before 24th nobody in India had it either but it was another variant which Johnson called the Kappa variant, and another called the Gamma variant.

This means that up to 24 April, what more than 340,000 people in India was diagnosed with as not the Delta variant but something else. This means that before India was placed on the red list, nobody brought a single case to the UK.

I thought Id put the record straight as Boris Johnson is the planets leading expert on covid, and knows more than the WHO, every country's heath service, every genome mapping laboratory and put together.

Either that, or he could be a LIAR as I suggested earlier, and in that case all tory voter must never be allowed near a polling station ever again.


04 Jul 21 - 07:37 PM (#4112326)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

So we will not have to wear masks after July 19. Alle-bloody-luja. Masks should never have been forced on us in the first place. The masks that most people wear are dangerous and insanitary. I for one will never wear a mask ever again unless forced to. I suppose I'll have to have keep one in my pocket for a while in case some deranged imbecile insists on my wearing one. I can't bear to see photos of young schoolchildren wearing masks. Completely inhuman. I don't know what the world's coming to when we can force people to hide half their faces, for reasons for which there is no evidence, for fifteen months. The one massive move towards restoring humanity will be to tell people that they can ditch their horrid masks. Bring it on!


06 Jul 21 - 12:27 AM (#4112444)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Thank dog you weren't in charge of deciding what and wasn't going to save lives during the pandemic. You can be as happy as you want thinking you don't have to wear one again, but don't FOR A MINUTE think they had no significant roll in slowing the spread and saving lives. What you call "torture" much of the world calls freedom from disease.


06 Jul 21 - 03:51 AM (#4112453)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

You can't produce a shred of real evidence that would confirm your assertions.


06 Jul 21 - 05:40 AM (#4112456)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Incidentally, "what you call 'torture'" sounds like you're quoting me. To my recollection, I haven't said that wearing a mask is torture. Cheers.


06 Jul 21 - 08:50 AM (#4112471)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs

Nice to know that antivaxxers will have different rules from sensible folks who have been double vaccinated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


06 Jul 21 - 10:41 AM (#4112482)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

I have stuff to do this morning - maybe later. There is research, Steve, lots of solid research looking at the efficacy of wearing masks during COVID-19. But you won't look, because that would mean you have to question this silly opinion and admit you were wrong when the articles show up. I'd try Google Scholar first, if I were you.


06 Jul 21 - 11:43 AM (#4112487)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: leeneia

The same woman has been cutting my hair for 15 years. She is sensible and trustworthy. Two weeks ago she told me that her husband has cousins in SW Missouri who are Trumpers and anti-vaxxers. At the time, they had a one-year-old baby in intensive care with Covid.

Was their defiance worth it to them, I wonder?


06 Jul 21 - 12:54 PM (#4112494)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

SRS
I think we're often like his annoying 5th graders.
I can imagine tiny tortures were learned and exchanged for decades in his career. He's bad at admmiting being wrong and desperately claims others are wrong/unscientific in response. Its a waste to spend a shred of time presenting factual evidence or risk assesment factors.

Highly mistaken gripers of our time are Jim Jordan, Rand Paul and Trump. SS is thankfully not even in their league.

On the other hand how embarrassing if Fauci was wrong and SS is right!


06 Jul 21 - 01:10 PM (#4112496)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I assure you that I do look things up, Maggie. I look for evidence that has to get over a very high bar. As I said, controlled experimental studies are not possible apropos of mask-wearing so the "evidence" is mostly observational and can't account for confounding factors. Laboratory testing of masks, for example, can't replicate the way people put them on, take them off, touch them, reuse them, wear them under their noses or chins or stuff them in their pockets alongside their ten-dollar bills, used tissues and loose change. On top of that, however strongly one wants to advocate mask-wearing, it is impossible to deny that huge numbers of masks are not only worn incorrectly, making many very likely insanitary and dangerous (not only because of Coronavirus), but they also give many people a false sense of security (sure, all observational, but very easy to observe). On that basis, it is not possible to make a good case for mandatory mask-wearing, and it is equally not possible to turn it into a valid moral issue, in my opinion. However, make disposable masks freely available everyone, alongside a public information campaign recommending face coverings, and you would very likely get most people wearing them and not abusing them, abuse which happens when you are forced to wear them and resent it. But I'm not a mask rebel and I never break the rules. I'm just saying what I think. A statement to the effect that "masks saves lives" simply can't be supported with sound evidence, which would clearly need to be numerical and would not need to be mere best-guesses or estimates. Only a controlled large-scale study could safely conclude that, and such a study would be unethical. Sorry if that makes me sound like Mr Spock.


06 Jul 21 - 01:14 PM (#4112498)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

It would be very good if you could actually address substantive points in people's posts, Donuel, rather than making unwitty and unclever little snipes. Think you can manage that? For a change??


06 Jul 21 - 01:23 PM (#4112500)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Leenia, I bet that the issue of being a trumper or antivaxxer is NOT the main issue that is important to the Missouri couple. Its the Race issue that reigns over their life. The other little issues pale in comparison even if it raises other risks. Trump is only their current great white hope. Anyone else who could better satisfy their immediate racial concerns and fears could be preferred over Trump. Is it worth their child's illness? No but they were in for a penny, in for a pound.
I say diversity is good for everything and everybody but some can't see it that way because of legacy or poor teaching.


06 Jul 21 - 01:31 PM (#4112501)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Google Scholar: face masks efficacy during COVID-19 raw results.


06 Jul 21 - 02:03 PM (#4112502)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The Pfizer is still effective in preventing severe illness from the Delta varient but the effectiveness rating goes down to 90 %.
Non symptomtic Covid contagiousness among the vaccinated is extremely rare. So if a vaccinated parent is carrying non symptomatic Delta even non vaccinated kids are almost never infected.

US asians 80% vaccinated
blacks 30%
overall 68% (the red states still lag behind)


06 Jul 21 - 06:36 PM (#4112519)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Well, Maggie, you post sources without comment. I've perused some of them and they largely confirm what I've been saying about the evidence: that most of it is observational, that randomised control testing is not possible because of the ethical deficiency of having an "unprotected" control group. Making real-life extrapolations as to efficacy from laboratory testing of various types of masks is not justified. Everything depends on how people use or misuse the masks, and that includes replacing them with clean ones at extremely frequent intervals. That largely does not happen. Just walk around your town and watch what people do. By the way, medical sources, rather than independent scientific sources, have a dog in the fight in that their need, as they see it, to protect their health service takes high priority. Recommending masks, to them, is a way of playing safe and they won't be adopting the same level of objective rigour as independent scientists would do. Now I am not saying that I KNOW that masks don't work (though I THINK that they are next to useless, a very different thing). But I am saying that compelling people to wear masks is in no way justified by scientific evidence, and that governments enforcing mask-wearing are acting beyond morality in my opinion. My view all along has been that the role of governments in this pandemic should have included giving public information, advice and guidance (and free masks). I suggest that a good campaign along those lines would have resulted in a very high level of public compliance, without the potential resentment (and cheating) that enforcement would cause. Neither you nor I can ever know whether doing this, that or the other, or not doing, would cause more deaths, because the alternatives can't be simultaneously tried.   And, one more time, when you force people to wear masks you are forcing 99 people out of a hundred who are harmless to others to do something that is useless for them and useless for others. I can't see how anyone can think that that's right. Advice and persuasion, never coercion.


07 Jul 21 - 03:30 AM (#4112547)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: SPB-Cooperator

June 2021 - covid cases 8,000ish per day, PM decides that the time is not right to fully relax public health measures.
July 2021 - 28,000 cases a day, expected to rise to 50,000 by 21 July and 100,000+ by the end of the month, PM decides that public health measures must end whatever the outcome.

Does this mean that the 'science' Johnson has been guided by is a detail analysis of the likely headlines in the popular press. Surely then it makes sense to make murdoch head of the NHS .because as far as the government is concerned he is a worlds leading expert on health.


07 Jul 21 - 04:45 AM (#4112568)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

It's an inconvenience all right. But I think the point that the increase in cases is no longer matched by similar increases in serious illness and death, thanks to the vaccines, is sound. A similarly sound point is in the question, if we don't do it now, when will we do it? Can we really go on like this for ever? If we have to live with the disease, there will always be spikes, as with flu in winter. So let's get everybody vaccinated. Information, advice and vaccination have got to be the way forward in my opinion, not constant resort to repressive restrictions.


07 Jul 21 - 05:31 AM (#4112575)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: SPB-Cooperator

We can continue to open-up tourism, retail and hospitality, etc, but relaxing public health measures such as wearing masks, checking into venues with NHS app is downright bizarre, and threatens to undo the benefit of the sacrifices we have made for nearly a year and a half. it is like saying that it should no longer be necessary to wear seatbelts because wearing seatbelts has reduced the number of deaths in road accidents.

Taking half a minute to scan a barcode and use a hand gel dispenser is hardly onerous. Also if people are no longer required to use face coverings on public transport, shouldn't the driver then be held personally liable for people spreading covid in tube/train carriages and on buses?


07 Jul 21 - 10:42 AM (#4112613)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick

...... and use a hand gel dispenser is hardly onerous

I always made an effort to find and use the hand-gel each time I went into a shop. Sometimes this meant several applications in one shopping trip. This resulted in my skin drying out and cracking at the side of my finger nails. It was really painful, especially when eating citrus fruit or anything pickled. The solution was to use copious amounts of hand cream when I got home but it took a long time to clear up.

I still use the hand gel but a little more judiciously. If I am shopping round and go into several shops to compare prices without touching anything, I will use it in the first shop then maybe once again later in my tour. I think I am clued up enough to make these decisions for myself.

DC


07 Jul 21 - 10:44 AM (#4112614)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Leave it to Steve - he makes irrational statements, I post a link to answers, and he choses to misrepresent the papers in the results. Asking me to prove he's wrong, he's not interested in proving he's correct, he keeps pushing the same tired politically-motivated line.

Well, Maggie, you post sources without comment. I've perused some of them and they largely confirm what I've been saying about the evidence: that most of it is observational, that randomised control testing is not possible because of the ethical deficiency of having an "unprotected" control group. Making real-life extrapolations as to efficacy from laboratory testing of various types of masks is not justified.

BS. Just nonsense. A point made here says that the efficacy of masks can't be taken in isolation - you also need to consider social distancing and handwashing, etc, but given the severity of the pandemic, each is equally important. Here are some abstracts and highlights from the top few papers in that list that came out in 2021:


An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19 January 26, 2021    https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2014564118

Abstract
The science around the use of masks by the public to impede COVID-19 transmission is advancing rapidly. In this narrative review, we develop an analytical framework to examine mask usage, synthesizing the relevant literature to inform multiple areas: population impact, transmission characteristics, source control, wearer protection, sociological considerations, and implementation considerations. A primary route of transmission of COVID-19 is via respiratory particles, and it is known to be transmissible from presymptomatic, paucisymptomatic, and asymptomatic individuals. Reducing disease spread requires two things: limiting contacts of infected individuals via physical distancing and other measures and reducing the transmission probability per contact. The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts. Public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high. Given the current shortages of medical masks, we recommend the adoption of public cloth mask wearing, as an effective form of source control, in conjunction with existing hygiene, distancing, and contact tracing strategies. Because many respiratory particles become smaller due to evaporation, we recommend increasing focus on a previously overlooked aspect of mask usage: mask wearing by infectious people (“source control”) with benefits at the population level, rather than only mask wearing by susceptible people, such as health care workers, with focus on individual outcomes. We recommend that public officials and governments strongly encourage the use of widespread face masks in public, including the use of appropriate regulation.


Face masks against COVID-19: Standards, efficacy, testing and decontamination methods June 2021 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cis.2021.102435

Highlights
• Universal face masking as a low-cost strategy to mitigate virus transmission

• Interdisciplinary systematic review on face masking against COVID-19

• Standards for various face masks and their fundamental filtration mechanisms

• Empirical methods for determining mask integrity and particle filtration efficiency

• Decontamination methods that allow for the reuse of traditionally disposable masks



Why does the spread of COVID-19 vary greatly in different countries? Revealing the efficacy of face masks in epidemic prevention   January 14, 2021   DOI: https://doi.org/10.1017/S0950268821000108

Abstract
The severe acute respiratory syndrome-coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV-2) is highly contagious, and the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic caused by it has forced many countries to adopt ‘lockdown’ measures to prevent the spread of the epidemic through social isolation of citizens. Some countries proposed universal mask wearing as a protection measure of public health to strengthen national prevention efforts and to limit the wider spread of the epidemic. In order to reveal the epidemic prevention efficacy of masks, this paper systematically evaluates the experimental studies of various masks and filter materials, summarises the general characteristics of the filtration efficiency of isolation masks with particle size, and reveals the actual efficacy of masks by combining the volume distribution characteristics of human exhaled droplets with different particle sizes and the SARS-CoV-2 virus load of nasopharynx and throat swabs from patients. The existing measured data show that the filtration efficiency of all kinds of masks for large particles and extra-large droplets is close to 100%. From the perspective of filtering the total number of pathogens discharged in the environment and protecting vulnerable individuals from breathing live viruses, the mask has a higher protective effect. If considering the weighted average filtration efficiency with different particle sizes, the filtration efficiencies of the N95 mask and the ordinary mask are 99.4% and 98.5%, respectively. The mask can avoid releasing active viruses to the environment from the source of infection, thus maximising the protection of vulnerable individuals by reducing the probability of inhaling a virus. Therefore, if the whole society strictly implements the policy of publicly wearing masks, the risk of large-scale spread of the epidemic can be greatly reduced. Compared with the overall cost of social isolation, limited personal freedoms and forced suspension of economic activities, the inconvenience for citizens caused by wearing masks is perfectly acceptable.


This in particular helps because it has a good photo illustration of with and without masks, and types of masks:

Protection From COVID-19: The Efficacy of Face Masks February 5, 2021 doi: 10.3238/arztebl.m2021.0119

Abstract
Background
Since the beginning of 2020 the SARS-CoV-2 virus has spread to nearly every country in the world. The mainly airborne pathogen has led to large numbers of deaths, principally in elderly and vulnerable segments of the population. Protective vaccines have recently become available, but it is not yet clear whether and when population-wide immunity will be achieved. The existence of evidence for the protective effect of masks covering the mouth and nose is a topic of public debate.

Methods
A selective literature search was carried out in PubMed. Data from the German Robert Koch Institute and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention were also taken into account.

Results
When talking, as many as 20 000 droplets ranging in size from 20 to 500 µM are released every second. According to PCR tests, the amount of virus exhaled is highest immediately before the onset of symptoms. No randomized trials have been conducted on the effect of masks covering the mouth and nose. A meta-analysis of 29 studies on infection with SARS-CoV-2, SARS, or MERS revealed that type N-95 masks (corresponding approximately to FFP-2), surgical masks, or similar multilayer cotton masks can greatly reduce the infection risk for the wearers (RR 0.34 [0.26; 0.45], with moderate heterogeneity [I2 = 48%]). Model experiments and case reports suggest that masks covering the mouth and nose afford considerable protection against transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and other airborne diseases by reducing release of and exposure to potentially infectious droplets; in addition, infections that do occur take a milder course. A limitation of the studies analyzed is that in most cases, this effect cannot be viewed in isolation from the protective impact of other measures (distancing, hygiene precautions).

Conclusion
It can plausibly be assumed that consistent use of masks covering the mouth and nose can play an important role in containing the spread of SARS-CoV-2.

Since the outbreak in Wuhan (China) in early 2020, SARS-CoV-2 has spread into a pandemic. The pathogen is mostly transmitted via the respiratory route. It has caused many deaths, especially in older and vulnerable populations. Vaccines have become available recently, but it is not known how quickly vaccinations will help to establish immunity at the population level (1). The most important protective measures against infection with SARS-CoV-2 include:

Adhering to safe minimum distances

Complying with hygiene measures, and

Wearing a face covering over nose and mouth (mask).


07 Jul 21 - 02:07 PM (#4112631)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Geoff Wallis

SRS,

Have any of the studies which you've cited/cut-and-pasted from been subject to peer review?

If not, they're speculative and/or advisory with qualifications at best and nugatory at worst.


07 Jul 21 - 02:56 PM (#4112639)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: SPB-Cooperator

Maggie, I don't think I was being irrational.by advocating enabling opening up society by continuing with personal preventative measures. We have around 28,000-29,000 new cases per day in UK compared with Czech Republic with around 105-110.

At the same time the UK is talking about charging people for antigen testing in order to discourage people from taking responsibility for public health even further.

It is almost as if johnson has taken trumps place on the dark side.


07 Jul 21 - 03:28 PM (#4112641)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: SPB-Cooperator

Now 32,500/day.


07 Jul 21 - 03:44 PM (#4112644)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Getting information on the pandemic is a bit like living downstream from a dam that is rumored to have a huge crack in it. Instead of asking if the rumor is peer reveiwed you should get your ass up to the dam to see for yourself. If you see a crack with water coming out, get the fuck out. Don't debate, don't hesitate. Its your fate to google Conspiracy or Dr. Fauci or just move upstream.


07 Jul 21 - 04:18 PM (#4112650)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Geoff Wallis, I am retired from an academic research library where I worked with peer review papers we published for the university. I dig up papers in scholarly sources. Did you follow any of the DOI: numbers to see where they come from? I thought not.


07 Jul 21 - 04:37 PM (#4112653)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Certain sources like the National Science Foundation have their idiocyncracies. For example while announcing new discoveries some labs are succint but have their hand out for a grant so they have the same three justifications they know the NSF is looking for.


08 Jul 21 - 06:50 AM (#4112690)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

"Leave it to Steve - he makes irrational statements..."

You are not entitled to make offensive remarks (and more than just this one) then delete my carefully-argued responses and regard yourself as fair-minded. You have taken to deleting stuff simply because you don't agree with it. If I'm irrational, you are immature. I've responded to your points about masks without insulting you and, unlike you, I commented on your links. The science regarding masks is not settled, there is room for polite disagreement but you don't want views other than yours to be considered. Please do your job properly.


08 Jul 21 - 07:50 AM (#4112692)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Steve I am sure you were careful regarding your remarks but again I remind you that in the US it is seen through the lens of ignorant no mask anti vaxxing Trumpists. They are not helping anyone.
On again off again lockdowns are more frustrating imo.


08 Jul 21 - 08:38 AM (#4112698)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I don't know how many more times I have to tell you that I am not a COVID-denier nor an anti-vaxxer (I was first in the queue for my jabs), that I respect people who wish to continue to wear masks and that I have NOT ONCE broken a mask rule, or any other rule. Never mind seeing things through your US lens (a well-recognised failing of your country). Just read what I say and respond to that, civilly and in a measured fashion. Injections of emotion into debates about the science lose you the argument there and then. I love to be disagreed with but I don't like to be called silly, irrational or the purveyor of bullshit simply because you don't agree with me. And then deleted so that readers of the other point of view can't see what I've said to cause such responses. That's all.


08 Jul 21 - 01:06 PM (#4112716)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

You can suspect all you want, but you're not offering anything other than your own high opinion of yourself.


08 Jul 21 - 01:20 PM (#4112718)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Enough of one-upping each other. Steve, if something is disputed and an answer is provided, then it doesn't make sense to remove the remark being answered to. In response to your accusation, no, your remarks weren't removed.

I don't know who Geoff Wallis is, but he, I am sure, knows how to use copy and paste to put in a link if it hasn't been made a hot link for him. Unpleasant? It takes one to know one, apparently. Any more speculating about moderation and your posts will be deleted.


08 Jul 21 - 06:14 PM (#4112732)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

You deleted a long and carefully-prepared post of mine, simply because it got your goat because you don't agree with me about masks. Not because I was rude or offensive to you (as you feel free to be with me...), but because, well, you don't agree with me about masks. Because, in some weird way, you think that if I were the world boss I'd be a mass-murderer because I don't think masks are much use and that rigorous science has yet to support mask-wearing. In spite of my repeatedly telling you that I respect anyone who wants to wear masks and that I've been as mask-obedient as anyone you know, even those with haloes over their heads. I can't delete you but you can delete me. Fine. Well I do know Geoff, and, though he doesn't post very often in this section, and though we are far from conspiratorially in league with each other, I can assure you that he is articulate, thoughtful, measured and erudite. As I said, Maggie, please do your job, unpaid though it be, properly.


08 Jul 21 - 08:12 PM (#4112734)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

I think the chance that this thread will ever prove worth the moderation, or even the time it takes to read it and select what points you want to fight about, is close to zilch.


08 Jul 21 - 10:07 PM (#4112738)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

I don't delete things that I disagree with. I delete things that are extremely rude, that go against the general Mudcat community standards, and the bickering and personal attacks. It used to be a regular thing that posts would disappear from when you hit "send" to when the page reloaded. That still happens on occasion. And I'm starting to see a few double posts that the system used to have all of the time until that glitch was fixed. Maybe it's unfixed.


Edited note: The last time you had something deleted on this thread was May 6, when you were duking it out with Donuel.


08 Jul 21 - 10:15 PM (#4112739)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Justice, understanding and fairness is already in short supply.
When everything is about you, the world feels like there is even less justice, understanding or fairness. The more you repeatedly hector about a minor slight, if there even is one, the less empathy the world will extend. These are things we should have learned in kindergarten. You might think the squeaky wheel gets the oil but sometimes it just heats up, catches fire and destroys itself.

Pfizer recommends a third shot for maximum immunity to Covid.










There feels like there is little understanding


08 Jul 21 - 10:24 PM (#4112740)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

I'm already seeing prompts to get this year's flu shot, as of July 1. I don't know if it is even in the pharmacy yet.


09 Jul 21 - 03:42 PM (#4112796)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Covid booster shots are good for seniors who show waning immunity after 6 months. The FDA hasn't any final reccomendations on the booster yet.


09 Jul 21 - 05:09 PM (#4112805)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

Anti-vaxxer'a droop


10 Jul 21 - 09:17 AM (#4112856)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I have had the NHS COVID-19 app until now (which alerts you if someone who has tested positive has been hanging around you, detected by Bluetooth on both persons' phones), but I've deleted it. I haven't been "pinged" (i.e., ordered to self-isolate) due to a close COVID contact, but I was ordered to self-isolate for 10 days when I reported a high temperature (which turned out to be the start of a dose of cellulitis). I went for a proper test (not those free ones you can order which are unreliable), which proved negative, so the app then let me off the hook. Well I've had both my jabs now and I really don't want to know any more if an infected person has been near me, and I certainly don't want to be told to lock myself away for 10 days. The government is thinking of tinkering with the app to make it "less sensitive," in an attempt to stop people from deleting it. I mean, for chrissake...


10 Jul 21 - 11:43 AM (#4112868)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

The Delta variant is becoming the most prominent in many US communities now, and it's beginning to sound like those places are having to cycle through the hyper-vigilant activities (distance, masks, staying out-of-doors). I haven't heard of any shut downs so far.

That ED side effect was discussed on the news but I can't find it on the site that I think carried it. It points to the long term vascular problems associated with COVID-19. I guess you couldn't call this a part of "long COVID," though. Just thinking out loud. . .


10 Jul 21 - 03:06 PM (#4112878)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

I haven't got the NHS app, and I haven't got a 'smart' phone so I couldn't have it anyway. My phone is a means of communication, not a means of control.

I am particularly concerned by suggestions that people might not be allowed into bars and restaurants (or theatres, concerts etc.) without having the app in order to prove they have been vaccinated. Supposedly, this would be a measure to encourage young people to get vaccinated. The real effect would be to force many people to have a smartphone and an app, through which their whereabouts and even some of their behaviour could be traked and traced.

Maybe I am being paranoid. But then again, maybe they really are out to get me along with the rest of us.

In any case, by the time I had paid for the smartphone, I would have spent the money that I could have used going to the pub, eating out or going to a concert, so I am NOT going to do it.


10 Jul 21 - 04:14 PM (#4112883)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

Fortunately I don't get offended by blasphemy, but . . .
I have had the NHS COVID-19 app until now (which alerts you if someone who has tested positive has been hanging around you, detected by Bluetooth on both persons' phones), but I've deleted it. I haven't been "pinged" (i.e., ordered to self-isolate) due to a close COVID contact, but I was ordered to self-isolate for 10 days when I reported a high temperature (which turned out to be the start of a dose of cellulitis). I went for a proper test (not those free ones you can order which are unreliable), which proved negative, so the app then let me off the hook. Well I've had both my jabs now and I really don't want to know any more if an infected person has been near me, and I certainly don't want to be told to lock myself away for 10 days. The government is thinking of tinkering with the app to make it "less sensitive," in an attempt to stop people from deleting it. I mean, for chrissake...

I'm guessing that "for chrissake" is intended to mean "For Christ's sake".
Someone who claims to be totally atheist should not use this expression!


10 Jul 21 - 05:10 PM (#4112887)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Backwoodsman

”I'm guessing that "for chrissake" is intended to mean "For Christ's sake".
Someone who claims to be totally atheist should not use this expression!”


It’s a strange phenomenon, Nigel. I have a rabidly-ætheist friend who frequently appeals to “Baby Jesus, forgive me!”. Weird or what?


10 Jul 21 - 05:37 PM (#4112890)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

I believe 'Goodbye', which atheists might use without a second thought, means 'God be with you'. To be more secular, one could say 'Fare well', but somehow that has an air of finality about it, as if you are not going to meet again.
But at least 'God be with you' doesn't specify which god you mean (unlike references to 'Baby Jesus').


10 Jul 21 - 05:41 PM (#4112891)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Just like Richard Dawkins, I have never claimed to be a "total atheist." Anyways, that's a bit off-topic as it happens... By the way, Nigel, blasphemy me arse!

I may have deleted the NHS COVID-19 app, but I still have the regular NHS app, with which I can order my prescriptions, etc., and that one contains my vaccination history, so I can show anyone who wants to know that I've had two jabs.


10 Jul 21 - 07:49 PM (#4112897)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Swearing is swearing. I'm an atheist also, and don't worry about the origins of many of the curse words in use today.


10 Jul 21 - 07:58 PM (#4112901)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Thank God for atheism is all I can say...


11 Jul 21 - 02:37 AM (#4112932)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos

To be on topic – it seems you can catch two variants of covid at the same time. Only one recorded case so far, but not everyone's infection gets tested, so it's possibly more common.

On swearing, I remember a very self-righteous neighbour complaining about the language she had heard in the street, saying:
"I was so shocked. I have never heard such language before in my life, and I don't know what those words mean!"

Yeah ... right.


11 Jul 21 - 10:48 AM (#4112959)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

It is legal and appropriate for Steve to get a booster vaccine as soon as now. But we still have a delay over here.


11 Jul 21 - 11:05 AM (#4112961)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

No it isn't. And I only had my second jab six weeks ago.


11 Jul 21 - 11:14 AM (#4112962)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

We're we're time last week that the legal requirement to wear masks would end on the 19th. We were told that we are "expected" to wear masks after the 19th. This government knows not its arse from its elbow. More to come...


12 Jul 21 - 04:49 AM (#4113017)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

The Government makes as much sense as that last post ;)


12 Jul 21 - 05:24 AM (#4113018)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Nigel, I corrected it, the corrected version DID appear here, but someone deleted it and left the "wrong" version in place! It should have started "We were told last week..."


Mea culpa. Tried to put the correction on the right part of the statement. Sorry. ---mudelf


14 Jul 21 - 10:47 AM (#4113331)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

I correctly deduced that anyway.
Tennesee has banned outreach and information promotion on all vaccines.
That'll learn em.


14 Jul 21 - 09:47 PM (#4113381)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Starting with Missouri the outbreaks are in crises and have maxed out care. Secret vaccines are being offered since vaccination is so unpopular there. This time would qualify as a massive global second wave.
2 more to go is my guess.


16 Jul 21 - 07:41 AM (#4113515)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

https://www.theonion.com/what-to-know-about-the-delta-covid-variant-1847213234


16 Jul 21 - 08:57 AM (#4113518)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Steven Colbert on global Covid news


16 Jul 21 - 11:23 AM (#4113530)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

From that Onion piece:

Q: What should we do to curb its spread?
A: All the same things we haven’t been doing.


16 Jul 21 - 11:25 AM (#4113531)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney

something lighter - Competition challenges Sydneysiders to recreate artworks during lockdown


16 Jul 21 - 11:31 AM (#4113533)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Sandra, I've always loved the photos of people recreating famous paintings. These are very clever and you know they kept the kids entertained and connected for the time it took to consider which work and then to stage it. (And this is shared to my Facebook friends!)


16 Jul 21 - 02:32 PM (#4113549)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

cool


16 Jul 21 - 06:16 PM (#4113575)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic

Apparently the subject of the top 12 main sources of misinformation on vaccines and Covid came up in today's (Friday 20210716) White House Press briefing and the FOX interlocutor pretty much accused the White House of spying on these people's social sites, unaware that much has already been made public about these internet liars.


16 Jul 21 - 09:12 PM (#4113581)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney

thanks, stilly

Sydney's covid outbreak

Australia's vaccination "stroll-out"

Percentage of the population fully vaccinated by country we're at the bottom, 40th in the list with Iceland at 73.89%, Australia at 10.11%


19 Jul 21 - 06:49 AM (#4113780)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Writ large is the phrase thats writ large today. Everyone's getting infected with the Delta variant writ large. Delta is more contagious writ large. But anti vaxers are blind to whats writ large. The most absurd little big lies are writ large for them. Olympic money makers will not attemd. Facebook executives are in quarantine. Politicians get vaccine in secret. Writ large are the lies of yesterday that discourage common sense today. 99% of all the new tomb stones from Delta Covid are of the cult of the antivaxers. The USA has an embarrassment of riches that greedily bought all the vaccines so the world has very little for a priviledged few. Now the cure goes to waste while the crazies wait. People die as the world waits.


19 Jul 21 - 07:45 AM (#4113787)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

There could be vaccine
for all the world's nations
unless deadlier new mutations
have another trick in their bag.

I do not think virus can think

but the flu was the big loser last year.
Will it get stronger in retaliation
is something thats not very clear.
But it won't matter whatever your flag.


20 Jul 21 - 07:26 PM (#4113932)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Well yesterday was Freedom Day. So this morning I went to the funeral of a dear friend at a local village church in searing heat. There was plenty of room in there. Everyone was wearing a mask, but, in view of the oppressive heat and the prospect of 45 minutes suffering with my sinuses, I quickly removed my mask. Five minutes after that, two of our erstwhile friends, who are COVID deniers, swanned in without masks. So that made three of us. Once the service had started, the vicar (Doug - we go back an awful long way, Doug and me...) invited us to wear masks but said it was up to us. A few minutes after that, it was time for the first hymn. Doug told us all we could take off our masks to sing. Well, well, I thought. You sit there being all quiet with masks on, then you take them off to do some superspreading singing...

By the time we got to the second-last hymn, around half of the people in church hadn't bothered to put their masks back on. I hope that this will be the way things go from now on. There's always a mask in my pocket, and I wish it a long and interrupted sojourn therein... It was a lovely, heartwarming funeral, by the way.


20 Jul 21 - 10:32 PM (#4113944)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic

My sympathies for your loss. My religious community has yet to get together in the concrete and I've lost track of where they meet in the abstract (online).

When I go out up to maybe a quarter of the folks I see are wearing masks. Our community is officially not required to wear them, but many establishments have a sign that they want them warn by the uninoculated. We're getting news that most of the new cases are among those who did not get the jab and I won't be surprised if there is a return to more mask wearing.


21 Jul 21 - 04:19 AM (#4113959)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

"Long and interrupted" started off as "long, uninterrupted..."


21 Jul 21 - 07:19 AM (#4113964)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

There is talk of a Marshall Plan for the US to vaccinate the world.

Shall we go alphabetically or Allies first?


22 Jul 21 - 05:08 AM (#4114045)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney

Here in the Land of Oz we've had a vaccine "stroll-out" "run" by our federal government (our Prime Minister is/was a proud friend of Trump!)

In a recent report Australia was 40th (the lowest) in % of population vaccinated.

When the Govt finally decided to create ads encouraging vaccination, they were so so inept they were ridiculed, so other organisations made their own ‘We wanted a vaccine ad based on hope’: arts and community sector PSAs fill government ‘vacuum’ After the heavily criticised federal fear-based campaign, two new Covid ads made on shoestring budgets are getting thousands of shares

PSAs??? = Public service ads as opposed to commissioned ads, advertising agency work


22 Jul 21 - 06:27 AM (#4114051)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Book of the week on BBC Radio 4 is Vaxxers by Professor Sarah Gilbert and Dr. Catherine Green.

The gripping inside story of the making of the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine. Read by Samantha Bond and Debra Baker.

Book of the week - Vaxxers


22 Jul 21 - 04:59 PM (#4114103)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn

Crossed the border today to go to Berwick in Northumberland. Northumberland has infection rates about 3 times of the rate here in the Borders plus of course masks are not compulsory there now. So I was wondering what Tesco would be like. We still have to be wary as although my wife is double vaccinated she has an impaired immune system so regarded as vulnerable. I was surprised though because every single customer in Tesco appeared to be still wearing masks.


22 Jul 21 - 05:22 PM (#4114106)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I've shopped in four different supermarkets yesterday and today. Yesterday in Morrisons, about a quarter of shoppers were not wearing masks (unlike me...). Today in Truro Tesco, at least a third of shoppers were unmasked (I was one of them). in Sainsburys it was about one in four. In M&S, the same. I haven't worn a mask today. There has been no issue in any shop, and the signs at the entrances make it clear that it's now a personal choice. I have a new mask in my pocket and will always respect direct and polite requests to don it, but, by a couple of weeks' time, I'm hoping to ditch it and to never see a bloody mask ever again.


22 Jul 21 - 06:05 PM (#4114107)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the US Delta COVID
From: Donuel

The Delta wave should peak in October without changing current behavior.


22 Jul 21 - 06:06 PM (#4114108)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn

I must admit I was surprised that no-one seemed to be mask less. Wonder why the difference?? I suppose levels of infection might make a difference. Northumberland has way above average infection rates whereas Cornwall is a bit below average. Plus I suppose much of Berwick's hinterland is Scottish. So masks are not just heavily encouraged here it is the law too. Not going to change behaviour just because the shop is in England. I suppose the fewer folk there are not wearing masks then the more likely one is to keep it on. Still amazed everyone was donning them though.


22 Jul 21 - 06:35 PM (#4114109)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Well Cornwall has a fairly high level of cases and there are droves of holidaymakers here already. You can hardly bloody move on our roads. But I honestly don't give a flying shite. I've had two jabs and if I'm a threat to anyone it's a bloody small threat compared to that posed by unvaccinated clubbers and unvaccinated school kids. So sod it, no more bloody masks for me.


23 Jul 21 - 06:56 AM (#4114141)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Cliff driving is putting stress on many State resources to recover and treat the victims of cliff driving. Cliff driving advocates say they prefer dangerous freedoms to safe mandates. The Mayor of Withering View Georgia says he will nix any moves to ban cliff driving but at the same time do not expect any ambulance or hospital care.
Now that many children are perishing inside SUV's that take the 'plunge' it is surprising that the fatality numbers are still going up.
The anti cliff driving folks blame a lack of common sense that drives people to kill ones self and others. Bill Barnone, a cliff driver survivor and internet influencer says on Facebook "You can die from safe driving. There is nothing like driving over a cliff. I don't give a flying shit".


23 Jul 21 - 08:45 AM (#4114146)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Some things are hard to believe.

An Australian activewear firm has been fined £2.6m (5m Australian dollars) for claiming its clothing "eliminated" and stopped the spread of Covid.

Lorna Jane had advertised that its clothing used "a groundbreaking technology" called LJ Shield to prevent the "transferal of all pathogens".

BBC News


23 Jul 21 - 09:04 AM (#4114148)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

If you are vaccinated but get a breakthrough Delta infection, will you make more Covid antibodies?


23 Jul 21 - 10:11 AM (#4114160)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I take it that you equate driving off a cliff with removing my mask. If so, contemplate for a moment what a truly brainless analogy that is.


23 Jul 21 - 11:08 AM (#4114166)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn

When we were at Berwick yesterday there was a massive cruise ship anchored off the shore and passengers were being ferried into Berwick to then be put on buses for excursions. Cruises would normally go up the Forth for Edinburgh and often bus excursions come down to my home town of Kelso. It seems that there was no stop between Liverpool and Newcastle because they are currently banned from coming to Scotland because of the covid restrictions so Berwick was added. It turns out though that the bus excursions were still coming into Scotland - just from an English port. The destinations were St Abbs, Coldstream and Kelso. I thought that was a bit cheeky of the organisers but seemingly there were in the rules as long as the groups kept to their bubbles and did not enter any premises. Saying that you'd think the organisers would have had the gumption to change the excursions to Alnwick and Lindisfarne. At least folk would have been able to get a cup of tea.


24 Jul 21 - 07:53 PM (#4114310)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Nuttin to do wit you Steve. I think responsible folks should weigh conditions and circumstances for mask wearing.
As for vaccine deniers they are either fickle or fatal to others.


24 Jul 21 - 08:08 PM (#4114312)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

What does increase transmissability is singing in crowds indoors.

All things being equal - they aren't :"(


24 Jul 21 - 08:15 PM (#4114313)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

You lost your courage there, didn't you, Donuel. Shame.


24 Jul 21 - 08:35 PM (#4114314)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

You've convinced me that pfr has more common sense.
Enjoy your weekend.


25 Jul 21 - 11:45 PM (#4114414)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney

here in Greater Sydney we're in lockdown, but we also have "Freedom marches" where up to 4000 people marched down the main streets of Sydney, shoulder to shoulder, not a mask in sight. Sydney Covid crisis could take months to recede Similar marches were held in other cities,

On a lighter note, here's a comment heard on the radio this morning - There aren't enough villages for the idiots we produce.


27 Jul 21 - 07:43 AM (#4114519)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

From The Observer newspaper.

Jeremy Farrar is the director of the Wellcome Trust, a former professor of tropical medicine at the University of Oxford and a member of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage). He has just published his account of the Covid crisis – Spike: The Virus v the People - in which he attacks the government for delaying a lockdown last autumn and describes the scientific and medical efforts that went into combating the pandemic.

Jeremy Farrar Q & A






Spike: The Virus v the People: The Inside Story
By Jeremy Farrar with Anjana Ahuja

Observer review


28 Jul 21 - 09:18 AM (#4114625)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Why Is Covid Testing Down So Much?


01 Aug 21 - 09:20 AM (#4115028)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

We sure are living in strange times


From the BBC website

YouTube has barred Sky News Australia from uploading new content for a week, saying it had breached rules on spreading Covid-19 misinformation.

It issued a "strike" under its three-strike policy, the last of which means permanent removal.

YouTube did not point to specific items but said it opposed material that "could cause real-world harm".

The TV channel's digital editor said the decision was a disturbing attack on the ability to think freely.

Sky News Australia barred for week by Youtube


01 Aug 21 - 10:33 AM (#4115034)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Pfizer and Moderna raise prices of Covid jabs for EU, reports say

Pfizer Inc and Moderna Inc have raised the prices of its Covid-19 vaccine in the latest European Union supply contracts, The Financial Times reported on Sunday.

The new price for the Pfizer shot was 19.50 euros (£16.64) against 15.50 euros (£13.22) previously, the newspaper said citing to the portions of the contracts seen.

The price of a Moderna vaccine was $25.50 (£18.33) a dose, the contracts show, up from 19 euros (£16.21) in the first procurement deal but lower than the previously agreed $28.50 (£20.49) because the order had grown, the report said, citing one official close to the matter.

The Guardian


02 Aug 21 - 02:33 AM (#4115095)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Encouraging news on the BBC this morning. I might even think about taking a train up north to London in the next few weeks.


Tests have found no traces of Covid-19 in swabs and air samples of four major railway stations and intercity train services, Network Rail has said.

Two lots of testing took place at London Euston, Birmingham New Street, Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Piccadilly station.

Heavily touched areas such as escalator handles were swabbed, while hour-long air samples checked for airborne virus.

Tests were repeated on trains running between the stations.

No Covid traces found in railway stations or trains


02 Aug 21 - 05:25 AM (#4115110)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Just for a bit longer I'm not going into pubs, theatres or open-plan restaurants and I won't be going on buses or trains (I'm lucky - I don't have to). I don't wear a mask any more unless I'm asked to in person. So far, that's happened in Specsavers and in the minor injuries unit in our local cottage hospital (idiotically, I scalded my arm reaching over a boiling kettle...). I still keep one about my person.


03 Aug 21 - 08:25 AM (#4115244)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

https://robinsonlab.cellbio.jhmi.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/SciAm_2021_07.pdf


scroll down to 30 - 39 to read Life new and improved regarding artificial protein vaccines that makes the impossible possible.


03 Aug 21 - 09:44 PM (#4115330)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

I am back to wearing a mask indoors. Just in case.


04 Aug 21 - 07:39 PM (#4115418)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

If Louisiana was a separate country it would have the highest infection rate in the world. If Florida were its own nation it would be 4th in global infection rates.

Texas and Florida infections amount to 1/3 of new US Delta infections.
The Florida Govenor Santis has handcuffed local and State schools from any mask wearing mandates. While he is at it I suggest he bans seatbelts, airbags, gun safeties, FDA testing and all laws regarding explosives to maximize freedom for his base. But seriously, half of the no vaxers still consider the vaccine more dangerous than Covid.

"There is no cure for stupid"
quote: Larry the Cable Guy


04 Aug 21 - 07:45 PM (#4115419)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Not enough prominent anti vax/mask activist fukwits are dying..

Or they are, but their deaths are being witheld from mainstream news coverage...?????


04 Aug 21 - 08:02 PM (#4115422)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

.. though there could be another explanation...???

anti-vaxxers visiting ER and 'secretly' getting vaccinated


04 Aug 21 - 09:18 PM (#4115432)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

oh go on then.. here's another...


This plumbs new depths of stupid.


05 Aug 21 - 05:00 PM (#4115529)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The fukwits may think their ranks can only be diminished by 1% but it can rise much higher with Delta so pfr has an interesting point.
Darwin awards are in order.

By the way pfr is radical but too level headed to be a punk anymore. Punks act certain ways: They're loud and angry, or else they're arty and clever. They yell and make unpleasant noises and put safety pins through their bodies and belongings. And you...well, sorry, but you're actually pretty normal. You don't have a schoolboy voice and you'd feel stupid spiking your hair or pulling on bondage trousers. The punks sneer at most everything that came before them, but your sneer doesn't show much at all in text, and you certainly don't see any reason to stop loving the Kinks and Syd Barrett. Truth is, you are too old to be a punk-- so what are you going to do? Quit the squit? Or be hard core folk on your rocker :}.


05 Aug 21 - 11:21 PM (#4115570)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The US will announce its strategy to provide a booster shot for citizens in 30 days. If you have two shots already it may take until 2022 to bet your booster. It may even be tailored for the Delta variant.
Of course the WHO is asking to curb those efforts and give the vaccines to the world instead.


06 Aug 21 - 10:06 AM (#4115608)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

I believe responsible folks should weigh conditions and circumstances for mask wearing.
The problem is that self centered judgmental people falsely believe they are respondsible.
We are now dealing with the Delta variant and should be on a war footing again and wear masks indoors. Yes we had a brief breather but that is over now. You are not just protecting yourself and the elderly but also the young and children. Its doing our part.

Global Policy such as exporting the manufacture of vaccine will also slow the progress of variants since only 1% of poor nations are vaccinated.


06 Aug 21 - 10:35 AM (#4115609)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

You wear a mask if you want to but there's no need to preach to anyone else about it. I respect your desire to wear a mask but it doesn't give you the right to pontificate to other people. The things you claim for masks can't be supported by evidence.


06 Aug 21 - 12:45 PM (#4115628)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Spake Steve Shaw, nonpontificatingly.


06 Aug 21 - 02:17 PM (#4115643)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

I believe responsible folks should weigh conditions and circumstances for mask wearing.
The problem is that self centered judgmental people falsely believe they are respondsible.


I accept that the use of language may be different in US. But the above statements may need clarification. 'Responsible' is one of those words which can be read in two conflicting ways.
The person who causes a problem may be responsible for it. The person who avoids causing a problem can do so by acting in a responsible manner.
Please act responsibly by making your meaning clear ;)


06 Aug 21 - 03:36 PM (#4115647)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Right, Mrrzy, so you're a mask person. I can respect that. I said just that, remember? So how am I pontificating? I challenged the advocacy for masks over its lack of evidence. If you have such evidence, real evidence, let's be having it. Sideswipes don't cut it.


06 Aug 21 - 06:12 PM (#4115662)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Nigel you are invariably right and almost hysterically funny.

God damn the preacher man


06 Aug 21 - 06:28 PM (#4115668)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Since I would prefer to have a booster instead of offering a stranger a vaccine in Timbuktoo I too am self centered. :=[


07 Aug 21 - 06:28 AM (#4115695)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Given the will we can do both.


07 Aug 21 - 07:39 AM (#4115700)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

There is the problem of a lack of vaccine production facilities around the world. That is something that needs to be looked at as soon as possible. We do not want to be facing the same problem when we have the next pandemic.


07 Aug 21 - 08:56 AM (#4115702)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: mayomick

The impact of long covid on cognitive function is often overlooked by media reports. The more severe the disease, it seems , the greater effect the disease will have on things like IQ ,reasoning, problem solving, spatial planning .
According to a Lancet article published last month, “people who
recovered from COVID-19, including those no longer reporting symptoms, exhibited significant cognitive deficits ." The report noted that
“score reduction for the hospitalised with ventilator sub-group was greater than the average 10-year decline in global performance between the ages of 20 to 70 within this dataset. It was larger than the mean deficit of 480 people who indicated they had previously suffered a stroke.”
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext


07 Aug 21 - 10:12 AM (#4115715)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

AND that could lead to long term care ...so...
Should the unvaccinated pay more for health insurance?
I think so.


07 Aug 21 - 06:37 PM (#4115758)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Should the obese pay more for diabetes treatment? Should smokers pay more for lung cancer treatment? Should boozers pay more for liver transplants?

The answer is no, if you regard your country as civilised.


09 Aug 21 - 06:13 AM (#4115893)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Voluntary risky behavior is penalized by insurance companies.
There is a big difference between; age we can do nothing about and cigarette smoking, choosing the vaccine and refusing the vaccine.


09 Aug 21 - 09:26 AM (#4115913)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Delta 88
is not you grandfather's old mobile Corona
virus.


09 Aug 21 - 06:02 PM (#4115956)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

We are living in strange times.

From The Guardian newspaper.

Confused anti-vaccine protesters stormed what they thought was a major BBC building on Monday, apparently unaware the corporation largely moved out almost a decade ago.

Rather than target the BBC’s news operation, which they hold responsible for promoting Covid-19 vaccines, a handful of protesters gained access to Television Centre in west London, which is now predominantly rented by ITV to film its daytime shows such as Good Morning Britain and This Morning.

Full story here


09 Aug 21 - 08:02 PM (#4115981)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney

confusion reigns.


A headline article says 'man didn't believe in covid' & left Sydney which is in lockdown & travelled to a covid-free regional area to inspect property so 4 local government areas are now in lockdown.

... The infected man was reported to have been travelling with two relatives and had not been wearing a mask, socially distancing or checking in to venues using QR codes, according to Byron Bay Mayor Michael Lyon. Mr Lyon said he had been told the man had waited until he was sick before going to hospital. "I've heard he didn't believe in the virus. From what I understand, he is not cooperating," he said ...

covid doesn't worry if folks don't believe in it.


10 Aug 21 - 07:26 AM (#4116027)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Global warming deniers, Fire deniers, antivaxers and Mask deniers can be found right here in this thread. Often with great frequency, if you haven't noticed. Its a mixed bag but arrogance, ego and narcissism is a human trait. You can call it strange times but my POV was and is business as usual. One member reminds me of gentleman Senator Ron Paul.


10 Aug 21 - 08:03 AM (#4116031)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

My quest has been to be honest while not losing a sense of humor.
I do not hope to panic folks but having studied the 3rd Reich perhaps more than the average person I have to conclude 'There is no bottom to human nature'.
The thin veneer of civilization is not as deep as people think.
It is no more than the onion skin thickness of our atmosphere.
Where we are today, there is no 'away'
there is no 'bottom' we can fathom.
Donuel

"Mistakes?
I've had a few
but then again
too few to mention."
Frank Sinatra :
10 Aug 21 - 09:26 AM (#4116040)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

"Mistakes?
I've had a few
but then again
too few to mention."
Frank Sinatra :


Talking of 'mistakes', you can't get away with misquoting lyrics on a music site:
"Regrets, I've had a few"
And while it was sung by Sinatra, the words aren't his:
Songwriters: Claude Francois / Gilles Thibaut / Jacques Revaux / Paul Anka


10 Aug 21 - 09:48 AM (#4116043)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Another one bites the dust after claiming vaccines and COVID are a hoax.


10 Aug 21 - 10:13 AM (#4116045)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

SRS: I can't get that page, I get a notification:
This site is currently unavailable to visitors from the European Economic Area while we work to ensure your data is protected in accordance with applicable EU laws.

It seems that although they are a "News channel" they have yet to catch up on the fact that UK is not part of the EEA, nor governed by EU laws.


10 Aug 21 - 11:09 AM (#4116053)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Nigel you are my fav pedantic literalist.
I know Sinatra didn't write the American Songbook lyrics.
I know you know that.

Deniers are criers in the end.
They made claims they can't defend.
When its way too late they want vaccine.
When told no their last words, are obscene.


10 Aug 21 - 04:13 PM (#4116073)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Nigel, Donuel has long needed to make accuracy, whether in reporting science or in quoting people, part of his "quest," a target as yet unfulfilled. That's the second time in a few days he's been picked up for blatant misquoting. Donuel, there is nothing pedantic about efforts to correct your egregious misquotes. Just try to get it right first time.


11 Aug 21 - 12:22 PM (#4116177)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Pleeeease wear an N-95 mask for your protection. Not cloth or paper.


11 Aug 21 - 05:22 PM (#4116213)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

From the latest issue of Private Eye.

A cartoon about mask wearing.

Private Eye


12 Aug 21 - 10:10 AM (#4116297)
Subject: RE: BS: systemic challenges of the pandemic
From: Donuel

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK221522/


M&M's are back. Mobile morgues are back in business.


12 Aug 21 - 09:10 PM (#4116360)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic

I've started masking again. I see more people of all ages doing it indoor public areas. Outdoors I do not mask. The State is not requiring it and the municipality just elected a pro-business type who is also a vax agnostic (believes its up to the individual and is himself unvaccinated).

To me it's like being in a leaky lifeboat with bailing optional.


13 Aug 21 - 03:55 AM (#4116374)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

I agree wholeheartedly with you Steve. We are both double-vaccinated and would gratefully accept any booster or anti-Delta vaccine offered perhaps in the autumn.
Being vaccinated protects oneself but also others, and prevents yet another case being admitted to hospital in need of ventilation.
The thing is, I have always been convinced that vaccines are a Good Thing. As a youngster, I was only too pleased to be vaccinated/immunised against smallpox, polio, TB and anything else on offer. Also, travelling around Africa as I have done, thank goodness for the yellow fever jab, not to mention meningitis, typhoid, cholera jabs etc etc etc. I've had 'em all! I've swallowed dozens of anti-malarials too (Malarone). I'd probably be dead if I hadn't.
I have never had serious jab side-effects except for the first yellow fever one.
We are still wearing masks in supermarkets, and surreptitiously social distancing. But I understand that some people find mask-wearing very difficult.
Look, my poor sister is still struggling with long Covid (eighteen months now!) although she is improving slowly. If you knew what she has been through, you'd have any jab going. (She got Covid at the very start, before jabs were available)


13 Aug 21 - 06:40 AM (#4116381)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

If masks are not compulsory we should fully respect people's wishes to not wear them. I was asked to don my mask in our medical centre and I complied cheerfully. I do wear a mask in our tiny village shop because the lady who runs it, who we've known for years, always wears one and we have to stand very close in there. I think that comes under the heading of just being respectful of people's feelings of vulnerability. I went into a big bike shop the other day and the chap immediately demanded that I donned a mask. When I told him I didn't have one with me he tried to usher me to the door and said we could chat outside. Well he doesn't have to let me in his shop and I don't have to buy his stuff. Fine by me.

I don't feel the same at all about people who refuse the vaccine. Vaccines are THE way out of this. We can all wear masks for ever more and the thing will never go away. My whole face is a big part of my humanity and, unless I'm ordered otherwise by the law, the world can see it. All of it, thanks. But vaccine-refusers don't get my respect at all.


13 Aug 21 - 10:20 AM (#4116396)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Masks may or may not be effective protection...???

But short of personal hermetically sealed full face bio-hazard helmets,
they are the only meagre defense most of us have readily available...

But even if they are a useless placebo,
they do serve a valuable purpose
as a visible social symbol that wearers respect their own life,
and the lives of neighbours and total strangers...!!!!!

I see maskless strangers on trains and in shops,
and am automatically wary of them.

On face value, they are in my estimation
demonstrating callous selfish contempt for me and all others
in their vicinity...

My opinion of them is probably true for the greater majority.
I reserve my apologies for the tiny minority who are unable to mask up for genuine health reasons.....

btw.. I absolutely detest the discomfort of mask wearing.
But it is my decision to endure it out of respect for other people..

.. and a tiny petty futile protest that a bloke who looks like me,
easily mistaken for an old right wing street thug,
will defiantly mask up in a small west country town of tory voting anti-mask right wing street thugs...


13 Aug 21 - 10:25 AM (#4116398)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

"But it is my decision to endure it out of respect for other people.."


.. and obviously for my own self preservation..

if a properly worn mask provides even minimal protection...???


13 Aug 21 - 11:16 AM (#4116400)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney

Sometime last year I saw a cartoon - unmasked bloke ranting, masked bloke holds out his hand & says "Your rights stop at my nasal passages"

Most of us are masked & follow instructions/health orders.

Sydney & large parts of Australia are in lockdown as delta is running riot in the land of Oz & of course the immortals, the Freedom fans, the nutters & the selfish don't care!

Some people are defiantly travelling about trailing covids & infecting country regions which have not had infections before. This bloke is now in a small regional hospital as are his 2 teenage children who he took with him on his trip, all unmasked, all in hospital.

Others are refusing to wear masks or follow health instructions/orders. QR codes are used everywhere to sign in to shops & businesses, but the newest news is fake QR codes. Hold phone up at code, click & walk thru ...

Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose
Nothin', it ain't nothin' honey, if it ain't free ...'

sandra


13 Aug 21 - 12:10 PM (#4116405)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

I give respect to pfr. It helps giving respect if you ever want to expect respect. Good thing I don't expect a thing. I hate masks, but I bear it and wear it. Its more than a small sacrifice.

The people I saw on my tour were reluctant to ever go back to masking.
The mutant variant is killing kids as young as 3 weeks.

The mutant variant of the Reptillian invasion of humanity I thought was the flying spaghetti monster but Q and others are doubling down on the reptiles.

I wish the antivaxers here knew that General George Washington demanded everyone in his army was vaccinated against small pox.


13 Aug 21 - 01:23 PM (#4116412)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: keberoxu

erm, sorry to ask, Sandra, but
what "bloke' ?


13 Aug 21 - 03:23 PM (#4116419)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Wearing masks and social distancing had the added benefit over the last year of reducing and almost eliminating many childhood seasonal illnesses, and the converse is true. As soon as the mask wearing decreased, some of those childhood illnesses returned with a vengeance.

Texas children and children’s hospitals are under siege from two viruses: RSV and COVID-19

More children are being treated in Texas hospitals for COVID-19 than ever before, and an unseasonable outbreak of respiratory syncytial virus is adding to the stress on children’s hospitals.

More children are being treated in Texas hospitals for COVID-19 than ever before. But there’s a second factor that is putting pediatric hospitals on the path to being overwhelmed: an unseasonable outbreak of respiratory syncytial virus, or RSV, a highly contagious virus that can require hospitalization mostly among children 5 years and younger and especially infants.

During the last year, RSV was largely dormant, which experts believe was due to people masking up during the pandemic. Now, in just the last several weeks, thousands of Texas children have tested positive for the virus.

In addition, the delta variant of COVID-19 appears to affect unvaccinated children more often than previous variants. It’s unclear if children are also becoming sicker from it than from other variants of COVID-19. And with the regular flu season approaching, medical experts are concerned over how hospital capacity could be affected.


13 Aug 21 - 03:27 PM (#4116421)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

It's Time To Up Your Mask Game (updated from February 2021).


13 Aug 21 - 04:49 PM (#4116433)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick

I don't know what happened there. There was definitely text there when I previewed the post but it disappeared when I pressed submit!

Let's have another go.



I wish the antivaxers here knew that General George Washington demanded everyone in his army was vaccinated against small pox.

Edward Jenner inoculated a 13 year old boy in 1796 with the cowpox virus as a protection against smallpox. The first proper smallpox vaccine was developed in 1798. George Washington died in 1799. He must have been very forward thinking in the last year of his life.

DC


13 Aug 21 - 05:08 PM (#4116436)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2021/08/02/did-george-washington-mandate-vaccines-smallpox-continental-


I wish the US took on Rupert like you guys.


13 Aug 21 - 06:39 PM (#4116449)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Up your mask game all you like (still no scientific evidence, I see). Almost every mask I see here in Bude is ill-fitting/worn badly/taken off, hitched down then up, frequently touched/serially reused (if you ask anyone round here, they'll cheerily tell you that they keep their same disposable mask going for day after day - and who wouldn't, when you have to buy them? Shall I say that again?)

I'll take lessons from any mask aficionado who changes their mask for every shop, bus or train. Who never touches the front. Who never, ever wears their mask round their chin. Who checks that their mask can't leak. Who launders their cloth masks every day, several times, and who carries a whole wad of clean ones for every eventuality. Who ditches their paper masks after every use, without fail, no matter how brief. If you do all these things, your mask still is probably no use. Fall down on any one of them, and your mask is a potential danger to the public. And we don't know who you are. About one person in a hundred is infected at any one time. Therefore a mask edict forces 99 people in every hundred to wear a mask for absolutely no useful purpose, and the one-in-a-hundred person is quite likely staying home anyway, and/or is still leaking masses of viruses through their badly-worn mask (my university definition of a virus started with "a non-filterable particle..."). Great, so it's claimed that we can prevent childhood diseases by wearing masks. I suppose we can prevent flu, colds and all manner of other ailments by wearing masks. Let's leap to the logical conclusion to all this by saying that everyone should wear a mask, all the time, for ever more.


13 Aug 21 - 08:34 PM (#4116460)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

I was skeptical of masks right from the start..
.. and still don't trust the majority of pro maskers
to wear them competently and safely..

However..

As soon as right wing arseholes started politicizing masks,
it was in my bolshy nature to definitely decide to wear them defiantly about the streets of my tory wanker infested small town,
where they acted thoughout the entire pandemic as if every day was "freedom day"...

Btw..

"I'll take lessons from any mask aficionado who changes their mask for every shop, bus or train. Who never touches the front. Who never, ever wears their mask round their chin. Who checks that their mask can't leak. Who launders their cloth masks every day, several times, and who carries a whole wad of clean ones for every eventuality. Who ditches their paper masks after every use, without fail, no matter how brief. "

.. that'll for most points be me then, I'm that scrupulously OCD..

But it's not in my nature to insist I know best
and order other folks about..


serves 'em right if they are right wing morons hell bent on winning their Darwin awards...

.. good riddance...


13 Aug 21 - 09:25 PM (#4116463)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I'm a leftie. Unfortunately, I'm also a scientific type of chap who is innately sceptical about stuff until I see proper evidence. Not hearsay or follow-the-herd. It can be uncomfortable knowing that you're seen as a bedfellow with right-wing Tory types, but their motivations are never mine.


13 Aug 21 - 09:42 PM (#4116468)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

So, dismiss the good advice because YOU haven't been convinced that it really is good advice. That doesn't sound leftie to me.


14 Aug 21 - 03:46 AM (#4116481)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

"Dismiss" is the wrong word, as is "good," and I'm not clear that we are using "leftie" in the same way either. Whether the advice is good or bad is moot. Far better to persuade your fellow citizens to get vaccinated.


14 Aug 21 - 09:30 AM (#4116505)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Ignoring evidence in favor of ones own bias is a common unscientific mistake. A true mask expert wears two masks in which the outside mask is always an N 95. I am still ignoring precautions against a surface contact infection.


14 Aug 21 - 09:43 AM (#4116507)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jon Freeman

Donuel, a true mask expert would probably know the N95 is an American standard, and as far as I can make out, slightly inferior to the EU FFP3 standard.


14 Aug 21 - 05:29 PM (#4116573)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

The bias all lies in the minds of mask supporters, who, understandably, adopt the precautionary principle, in spite of the lack of real evidence (which neither Donuel, Maggie nor anybody else is able to provide). That is a very respectable position, and, as I've always said, one that I do respect. When the law told me to wear a mask, I wore a mask, every time, without demur. I am not a denier or a rebel. But, when masks are voluntary, which they have been for almost all of my life, I'm not going to wear one. I've had my jabs and I'm in good health. If I feel poorly I'll stay at home and not emerge until I've had a lateral flow test. I have a good supply of the test kits, I've tested myself twice and been ok both times (I've had two of the other type of test too, ditto). I comply with the rules and do even more. I'm seventy and am a bit chesty, but I want to live out my life normally, which means you can see my face laughing, smiling, frowning and sticking my tongue out at you. I won't miss the opportunity to do the sotto voce swearing. Wear you mask if you want to and I'll support you. I won't be wearing one, but I don't expect similar respect from the sanctimonious mask aficionados. Too bad.


14 Aug 21 - 07:18 PM (#4116579)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick

I share some of your doubts on the efficacy of masks, Steve, but I also don't think they do me any harm providing I refresh them frequently, which I do. So I will keep on wearing them where they are advised as long as that is the official position. At the same time, I had a meal in a pub last weekend and sat unmasked for a couple of hours. I even went to the bar more than once when I saw it was quiet. I didn't lose any sleep about having put myself in danger as it was quiet enough to maintain social distancing.

When we were first required to wear masks in shops, I used to snatch the mask off as soon as one foot had passed through the exit. It wasn't long before I found myself half way up the car park before I remembered that I still had the mask on. Now, I can't be bothered to take my hands off the trolley before I get back to the car.

As far as people not seeing my face, with my looks, I could be doing the world a service.

DC


15 Aug 21 - 03:10 PM (#4116638)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Ebbie

Juneau, Alaska, is experiencing a spike in reported covid cases, even though the town as a whole is more than two-thirds vaccinated, a much better rate than Alaska as a whole.

After dithering for months - as I reported on the 'Cat- as to whether I dared get the vaccine because of many bad reactions to many medications (I finally realized that if I reacted badly to the vaccine, that would affect just one person, but if I caught the virus not only could I have a bad reaction but I could also infect multiple people- well, it was a no-brainer, and I got the J&J jab the next day). I'm glad I did.

I wear a mask whenever I leave my apartment, even when I'm walking my dog outdoors. I wear it as a statement: Take the virus seriously!


15 Aug 21 - 04:28 PM (#4116648)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: mg

you can still infect people vaxed or not. i would continue all practices that you already have and amp them up. see what your vitamin d level is and adjust if you can. huge correlation between levels and virulence of disease. there are early and prophylactic medicines and vitamins you can take. google dr. pierre korry.


15 Aug 21 - 05:06 PM (#4116651)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Way to go mg. About american N-95 masks I know they come in a multiple of grades and sizes.

Just because some people think everybody else is crazy and they are the only sane unbiased person doesn't mean they are crazy, it means they are delusional.


15 Aug 21 - 06:53 PM (#4116661)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Vitamin D, etc., has got nothing to do with this. For decades we've been told that massive doses of Vitamin C protects us against colds. My old dad believed that, he still caught colds and he got heartburn from the vitamin tablets to boot. The virus gets into your cells no matter how vitamin-rich you happen to be.

I'm perfectly sane, I don't think for one second that I'm the only one who is, and I'm not delusional. I follow the science. The science says, overwhelmingly, that getting the vaccine is the way out of this. The science around the infectivity of vaccinated people is highly uncertain. The science around masks isn't there. I've asked here repeatedly for evidence but all I've had is that stone-age thing of observational stuff with no regard for confounding factors, largely from "scientists" who suffer from confirmation bias, the true curse of real science. And I seem to be in a very small minority when I refer to the mass misuse and the mass misunderstanding of masks, which can and does lead to a false sense of security and actual danger to the public. Wear a mask, I respect you for that. I should expect the same when I demur, but some of you are so certain that you're right that I almost think that some evangelist or other has been getting at you. Speaking of evangelists, I'll say it again: millions of Americans are refusing the vaccine because their preachers are instructing them. I've kept all the rules but you still have a go. Your silence over the millions of you yanks who are refusing the vaccine, a step that threatens the whole planet, is deafening.


16 Aug 21 - 12:04 AM (#4116681)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: mg

you have read differing reports than i regarding vitamin d. i am for vaccinations, although the way we got to them cost hundreds of thousands of lives by denying people access to safe, cheap, early treatments. Still a huge problem. I support vaccinations but I would like to see a bit more respect for those who choose not to vaccinate, especially their teenage boys. There are scary reports out there. There are consequences for vaccines and we need to be brutally honest and demand them anyway i guess.


16 Aug 21 - 04:30 AM (#4116695)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Well choose your sources carefully. For example, you could look at the overview of vitamin D in relation to Coronavirus in the highly-respected BMJ (British Medical Journal). In sum, it says that evidence for vitamin D efficacy is sparse, inconsistent, weak and often in disregard of confounding factors. Additionally, you are bigging up out of all proportion the risks of vaccines and you are defending refusers. Demurring at the only thing that will get us out of this whilst promoting ineffective measures is the recipe for prolonging this pandemic.


16 Aug 21 - 04:36 AM (#4116697)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

I heartily agree with having the greatest respect for science and for proving theories with solid scientific data.
The thing is, this is a fairly new situation, a worldwide pandemic, and
the available vaccines (thank goodness for them!) haven't been around long enough for virologists to ascertain their effectiveness against all mutations of Covid.
There are far too many variables - ethnicity, age, even climate, 'herd immunity', which conditions aid transmission etc etc etc. Only time and careful virological research will give us answers.
I once knew a chap who was a tutor in the Virology Department of Glasgow University (in the Sixties!!) He was extremely informative about viruses and all the research then was fairly new stuff. Little did we imagine in those days that a pandemic of this magnitude and danger would affect the entire globe!


16 Aug 21 - 08:26 AM (#4116719)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

That's all very true. But the vaccines are doing a damn good job and they are tweakable. They are the only hope of defeating the virus, unless it eventually defeats itself, which seems unlikely. What is important is that we don't allow ourselves to be sidetracked by snake oil remedies. All they do is help to perpetuate the crisis by allowing people to feel far more secure than is justifiable. We simply can't have the recommending of evidence-innocent vitamin remedies, the criticising of non-mask wearers yet the defending of people who won't take the vaccine. In the vast majority of cases there is no moral defence for vaccine refusal.


16 Aug 21 - 09:03 AM (#4116723)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Charmion

I got the jabs, but I still wear a mask when indoors with other people whose immunization status I don't know.

The jabs are for me, but the mask is for everybody else. I have no way of knowing whether I'm shedding the virus, and I don't wish to find out that I am through contact tracing.

Also, the mask makes parents of small children feel safer.

I'm cool with that.

And when the boosters are available, I'll be right there at the front of the line. With a mask in my pocket, if not on my face.

Here in lovely, leafy Stratford, Ontario, the mask is now something of a fashion statement. I have a purple one from the University of Western Ontario, and two made up in tartan: Perth County, which is green, and Maple Leaf, which is red. (I also have plain white and black ones for when I don't want to attract attention.) Big chain stores such as Canadian Tire and Sobey's issue their staff with trademarked masks. The Bank of Montreal not only put all its staff in blue masks with the bank logo, it also required them to think of an alternative "thanks for doing business with us" gesture so they don't have to shake hands. The young fella who handled my husband's estate account does the namaste thing; I saw another do an "air dap" with a customer. And it's now the polite thing to swing wide when you meet people on the street; nod, smile and wave when you do it, and they nod, smile and wave back.


16 Aug 21 - 12:12 PM (#4116740)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

"Do-si-do your corners now,
pass then side to side.
If they're not mask-wearers,
Pass them extra wide!" ;)


16 Aug 21 - 06:11 PM (#4116786)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

After I moved to Glasgow from Edinburgh, I actually lived almost next door to the Virology laboratories of their university, and the chap I knew gave me a 'guided tour'. It occurs to me that had this been Wuhan in the 21st Century, I might have been exposed directly to Covid (if that is in fact where it all started)


16 Aug 21 - 11:54 PM (#4116814)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: mg

If I come across ineffective measures I will be sure to denounce them. In the meantime, use everything at our disposal. That would include vaccines, ineffective measures that might be miracles, masking, ventilation. There were some very, extremely effective measures that were originally taken, used by many countries, and then blocked. Some countries that were using them successfully are developing countries, the same ones that can not obtain enough vaccines. It was saving their populations. It still can, although more difficult in later stages of disease than in earlier variants. As one doctor (I follow many, many doctors) said, the worst that can happen is that everyone will get dewormed (ivermecting..oh no..it is a dewormer for horses. Great. Animal trials.) This would not keep people from better treatments because there are not many they can be kept from that are not banned. Follow the money, follow the politics, and be aware that there is evil in the world that will take advantage of damn near everything. Vaccinate, treat early, mask, ventilate, strengthen immune system, isolate if you can.


16 Aug 21 - 11:59 PM (#4116815)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

In the US Delta infections are up 700%.


17 Aug 21 - 06:23 AM (#4116828)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

From The Guardian newspaper.

"New Zealand will go into a national lockdown on Tuesday night, after detecting one case of Covid-19.

The entire country will be at alert level 4 – the highest level of lockdown – for at least three days from midnight, and the regions of Auckland and Coromandel for four to seven days."

Though later in the article it says:

"Ardern said New Zealand would not know if the case was Delta until its genome was sequenced – but that the government would be working under that assumption until informed otherwise. Data released by the Ministry of Health on Monday showed 100% of Covid-19 cases detected at New Zealand’s border in recent weeks had been Delta."



New Zealand to go into national lockdown


17 Aug 21 - 08:41 AM (#4116840)
Subject: RE: US news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The viral load of Delta is 1000 times greater than 19.
That translates into one person infecting 5 instead of 2.
The blessing is the vaccine that keeps severity of infection to a minimum. A "booster" a 3rd vaccine shot - is currently suggested 8 months after the second shot but may likely become standard for all.


17 Aug 21 - 05:24 PM (#4116896)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott has tested positive for COVID-19. He's on monoclonal antibodies and had been vaccinated - for all of the grief he's giving everyone for wanting to mask and social distance, it would serve him right to get the opportunity to face the ICU and see what he's allowing others to go through.

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/texas-gov-greg-abbott-tests-positive-for-covid-19/


17 Aug 21 - 09:40 PM (#4116928)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney

latest from New Zealand New Zealand health authorities have recorded four new COVID-19 cases, one of which is a worker at Auckland City Hospital. The country was plunged into lockdown yesterday after recording its first community case of COVID-19 in six months ...

latest from Australia 33 new local cases in my state, most are in Greater Sydney, but too many are in regional & remote areas, including areas with high indigenous populations. Health services in regional & remote areas are not as good as in the major population centres.


18 Aug 21 - 04:25 PM (#4116997)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

One of the earlier pandemics is HIV. I hear a new innovative mrna vaccine for AIDS is now ready for trials.


19 Aug 21 - 02:18 AM (#4117042)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

From The Guardian newspaper.

"Fully vaccinated adults can harbour virus levels as high as unvaccinated people if infected with the Delta variant, according to a sweeping analysis of UK data, which supports the idea that hitting the threshold for herd immunity is unlikely.

There is abundant evidence that Covid vaccines in the UK continue to offer significant protection against hospitalisations and death. But this new analysis shows that although being fully vaccinated means the risk of getting infected is lower, once infected by Delta a person can carry similar virus levels as unvaccinated people."

Jabbed adults infected with Delta ‘can match virus levels of unvaccinated’


19 Aug 21 - 07:08 AM (#4117063)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

The experimental mRNA vaccine referred to targets HIV. You can't have a vaccine for AIDS any more than you can have a vaccine for a headache and sore throat. The clue is in the last letter of the acronym.


19 Aug 21 - 02:24 PM (#4117114)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Alabama is the first state to run out of ICU beds.
Other states still have beds available in parking garages and tents which is still better than waiting room casulaties while they wait for beds.
Some Heart attack victims can not find a hospital for 100 miles.
Mobile morgue semi trucks are again stacking bodies like cord wood.
Fortunately child deaths from DELTA number only in the low hundreds - 358 nation wide.


21 Aug 21 - 03:44 PM (#4117391)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

I made mask wearing more delightful by putting a finger tip drop of lemon extract from the grocery store, I dabbed it where the mask covers the chin inside and out.


21 Aug 21 - 03:56 PM (#4117394)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Is catching Covid now better than more vaccine?

There are marked differences in your immune system after a natural infection with coronavirus and after vaccination.

Which is better?

Even asking the question bordered on heresy a year ago, when catching Covid for the first time could be deadly, especially for the elderly or people already in poor health.

Now, we're no longer starting with zero immunity as the overwhelming majority of people have either been vaccinated or have already caught the virus.

It is now a serious question that has implications for whether children should ever be vaccinated. And whether we use the virus or booster shots to top up immunity in adults. Both have become contentious issues.

"We could be digging ourselves into a hole, for a very long time, where we think we can only keep Covid away by boosting every year," Prof Eleanor Riley, an immunologist from the University of Edinburgh, told me.

Prof Adam Finn, a government vaccine adviser, said over-vaccinating people, when other parts of the world had none, was "a bit insane, it's not just inequitable, it's stupid"

BBC


21 Aug 21 - 04:17 PM (#4117398)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Touching the front of your mask is mask abuse.


21 Aug 21 - 05:13 PM (#4117408)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

By Jove Steve is jovial lately. Itsa full moon and Jewpeter is in conjugation with Saturn.

Catching covid once vaccinated is better than it was before vaccination
Beware of Dr. Quack's natural cures


21 Aug 21 - 05:35 PM (#4117412)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Don't preach to me about masks then tell me that you blob something on the front of it, inside and out!


22 Aug 21 - 12:49 PM (#4117489)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

How can 'blobbing something' on the inside & outside of a mask cause a problem? Specifically if you do so immediately after sanitising your hands.
Without using aids (which would also need sanitising) it is impossible to put a mask on without touching it.


22 Aug 21 - 12:56 PM (#4117491)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: mg

Could someone please explain to me why people get upset when people wear masks below their chin When they don't need to have 1 on at all. It might be a matter of personal aesthetics. But I don't understand it from any sort of germ point of view. Certainly more sanitary to just pull your mask up and down when needed than to take it all the way up and stuff in the pocket or purse or whatever.


22 Aug 21 - 07:25 PM (#4117522)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Too many good people who choose positively to wear masks will prove to be
too stupid to wear them safe and effectively...


.. and folks wonder why I've ended up a misanthropic humanist hermit...???


22 Aug 21 - 10:13 PM (#4117533)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The rare times a mask is very helpful is when you or another person suddenly sneezes beneath a mask when carrying a viral load in a crowd. Other times is a bit of a crap shoot.
Nigel, its not about 'blobing' anything, its about an unfortunate obcessive psychopathy. I found peppermint too intense.


23 Aug 21 - 12:28 PM (#4117607)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

Donuel:
You may have failed to notice that I wasn't criticising your comment!


23 Aug 21 - 12:57 PM (#4117609)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

I fully realize, always assume my posts are with a smile.

People here heard on FOX that a deworming medicine for horses and cattle is good for Covid. The CDC had to make announcements to stop it. They were flooded with poisonings.


23 Aug 21 - 08:27 PM (#4117657)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

https://www.amazon.com/Ivermectin-Cure-Covid-19-19/dp/1257633252/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=covid+cure&qid=1629764482&sr=8-4
Shame on Amazon for selling this!


25 Aug 21 - 04:10 AM (#4117773)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons

Why "Shame on Amazon"?

If a book is published the publisher is entitled to advertise it on multiple market places (including Amazon). At least they included an 'editorial review':
Disclaimer. We have made every effort to make certain that all information is factually correct, comprehensive, and up-to-date. However, this book should not be used as a substitute for the knowledge and expertise of a licensed healthcare professional. You should always consult your doctor or other healthcare professionals before taking any medication. The drug information contained herein is subject to change and is not intended to cover all possible uses, directions, precautions, warnings, drug interactions, allergic reactions, or adverse effects. The absence of warnings or other information for a given drug does not indicate that the drug or drug combination is safe, effective, or appropriate for all patients or all specific uses.

Unfortunately there is, as yet, no cure for stupid.


25 Aug 21 - 04:27 AM (#4117780)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Did you read the review?

"Reviewed in Canada on August 10, 2021

I thought it was the product, so I returned it. ordered 10 , arrived 9."


25 Aug 21 - 06:19 AM (#4117787)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

book: Asprin, a cure for stupid?
Unfortunately Asprin does not have as good a safety record as the mrna Covid vaccine.


25 Aug 21 - 01:59 PM (#4117844)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

For people who had the Johnson and Johnson vaccine and then got a second Pfizer vaccine jab 6 months later made a correct decision.
Johnson boosters 6 months later give a robust immunity advantage as well.


25 Aug 21 - 06:48 PM (#4117863)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Political analist Chai Komanduri made a nuanced observation;
"The methods the GOP employed in denying climate change have been used by the anti vax movement, which hops on any uncertainty in science to claim a certainty in opposing science".

THE RIGHT IS WARY OF LEFT WING SCIENCE LIKE EVOLUTION for religious reasons
What next, is Galileo wrong?
Not even the unvaccinated pandemic and rise in child death seems enough to disuade them.
I wish there was a reset button for our species.


26 Aug 21 - 09:49 AM (#4117926)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

1 in 5 covid deaths are in Florida. 47,858 total deaths in FL.
All the gulf states are hit hard anoung the unvaccinated sending hospitals over 185% capacity. Good news from that region may take until October.


26 Aug 21 - 09:59 AM (#4117929)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

A friend shared on Facebook this week that her niece was admitted to the hospital for emergency surgery; they're so strapped for staff and supplies that in her bedding they didn't have any pillowcases, they had a towel wrapped around the pillow. Everyone is hoping she gets out of there okay and not just for the surgery recovery reasons.


26 Aug 21 - 10:17 AM (#4117930)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney

fingers crossed


27 Aug 21 - 07:59 AM (#4118011)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: gillymor

Here is what the FDA has to say about Ivermectin-
"FDA has not approved Ivermectin for use in treating or preventing COVID-19 in humans. Ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses for some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea. Ivermectin is not an anti-viral (a drug for treating viruses)."

The article-https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

I'm not a big fan of censorship but until some legitimate studies have been done to prove the efficacy of this drug I propose the moderators remove any posts touting it's usage for COVID19. As Nigel pointed out we have safe and effective vaccines and encouraging people to use this unproven drug while shunning vaccinations will contribute to the continuance of this pandemic. As it stands some internet surfers could light on the pro-Ivermectin posts here and place their health and the health of others in danger.


27 Aug 21 - 10:19 PM (#4118075)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

I just went through and removed several posts with the links and discussion of that pseudo-medical discussion of Ivermectin and possibly using it for COVID-19.

Its human application is for certain intestinal worms and head lice; it would be reckless to leave that initial post and the politely skeptical responses in place.

Please don't share more sources, "authoritative" or not, about using Ivermectin; there is a blossoming of fake medical sites right this minute producing this kind of information and you're only going to end up landing on those fake news sites if you try to look for actual research into the product.

gillymore's post stands as the lone remaining post on the topic. As I listened to Rachel Maddow discuss this tonight I planned to come back and remove all of this - gillymore beat me to the common-sense punch on the topic.

Let's move on.

Thanks.


28 Aug 21 - 08:56 AM (#4118098)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

It takes a great deal of skepticism to get past the worst of the fraudsters when it comes to medical misinformation: there is a group called "the dirty dozen" who do it all in their own names, but the rest are sneaky. The takeaway from this latest episode is that we can safely assume that hard-hitting medical news stories aren't being generated by the free regional magazines distributed in grocery store racks.

No one needs to leave the Mudcat site over a tiff in the BS section, and everyone gets sucked in by these things at times. They're calculated to get past your common sense defenses. But if the party who first posted decides to leave, we're sorry, and hope you continue to post your wonderful music contributions above the line.


29 Aug 21 - 04:16 AM (#4118149)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jon Freeman

Sorry SRS delete as you please but if you are going to suggest that sites like the

Oxford University or the BBC (or for that matter the page I gave before which is linked to in the BBC article) are fake. I guess I should be out of here too.


29 Aug 21 - 05:51 AM (#4118155)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Having been a somewhat busy chap for the last week, I blinked and missed this (I don't even know who's jumped ship). I can see no good reason for prohibiting the linking to genuine sites that provide neutral reporting of this issue, as Jon has said. There's a danger of being misinformed, true enough. But there's also danger in being uninformed.


29 Aug 21 - 06:51 AM (#4118159)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

From The Observer newspaper.

Covid cases in England are 26 times higher than a year ago.

Covid cases 26 times higher in England

"Simon Clarke, associate professor in cellular microbiology at Reading University, said that in the week ending 20 August, the ONS estimated that 756,900 people in England were infected with Covid-19, which equated to one person in 70.

“This time last year, the ONS estimated that 28,200 people in England were infected. That is the equivalent of one person in 1,900 being infected with Covid-19. That means that community infections are 26 times more common now than they were a year ago, when the population was unvaccinated and the country was three months into its reopening.”

The fact that deaths and hospital admissions from Covid-19 are a fraction of their levels at the height of the outbreak in Britain demonstrates the protective power of the vaccines – more than 60% of the UK population has had two jabs."


29 Aug 21 - 10:15 AM (#4118170)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

BBC and Oxford University aren't the lunatic fringe like the original post was, but if you try to search on the topic you're going to mostly hit the scam sites, boosted to catch attention. No one is going to resolve anything about a drug used on head lice anytime soon, so move along. This was another drug in the panoply of Trump's "cures," coming to the surface again now.

From the New York Times: At a Children’s Hospital, a Wave of Young Patients Struggling to Breathe

At Children’s Hospital New Orleans, where the intensive care unit has been jammed with Covid-19 patients, scenes like this have played out unrelentingly over the past month. Nurses raced around monitoring one gut-wrenching case after another. One child was getting a complicated breathing treatment known as ECMO, a last resort after ventilators fail, which nurses said was almost unheard-of for pediatric cases. About a half-dozen others were in various stages of distress.

“We all thought, ‘Well, thankfully it’s not happening to the kids; none of us would be able to stomach that,’” said Mark Melancon, a longtime nurse at the hospital, recalling previous stages of the coronavirus pandemic. “Fast forward to now, and it’s happening with the kids.”

Mr. Melancon said that until this summer, the hospital had treated only one or two Covid-19 patients at a time. Now, a procession of patients require constant attention, their oxygen levels often dipping precariously low without maximum intervention.

As children’s hospitals in many parts of the United States admit more Covid-19 patients, a result of the highly contagious Delta variant, federal and state health officials are grappling with a sharp new concern: children not yet eligible for vaccination in places with substantial viral spread, now at higher risk of being infected than at any other time in the pandemic. Nowhere is that worry greater than in Louisiana, which has among the highest new daily case rates in the country and only 40 percent of people are fully vaccinated, putting children at particular risk as they return to school.


Add the category 4 Hurricane Ida ready to make landfall on New Orleans this afternoon, when people will be needing to see high ground and shelters, and you have another Katrina-style disaster looming. Most American large hospitals are set up with their own power plants now, but the impact will still be serious.


29 Aug 21 - 10:29 AM (#4118173)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Here's the classic scenario parents (of children too young to currently vaccinate) fear. Taken in the context of the children's hospital filling up (previous post) and you have a waking nightmare.

Unvaccinated, unmasked teacher spreads Covid-19 to elementary school students, CDC reports

The CDC said that some of the affected children at the Marin County, California, school went on to infect other students, their siblings and their parents.


29 Aug 21 - 10:45 AM (#4118174)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jon Freeman

No one is going to resolve anything about a drug used on head lice anytime soon, so move along.

I won't move along just yet.

A positive outcome for the use of the drug may be unlikely and it may well be shown to be ineffective, but, if it was as easily reduced to the simplicity you give above, I don't imagine research scientists from Oxford University and other agencies such as our NHS getting involved in a national trial.


29 Aug 21 - 12:31 PM (#4118187)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Remember.. even American 'Liberal progressives' are still Americans...

America rules by American rules...!!!


The rest of us just have to put up with their world dominating power and innate superiority...

But we stil loves 'em...


btw.. I'm still out bogged down in the real world of family health problems..
and have also not kept up with recent weeks of Mudcat Soap Opera..

So which much loved regular cast members have dramatically exited the show...???

.. Daresay as usual some will make an unsurprising return in future episodes...


29 Aug 21 - 12:56 PM (#4118188)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

The last lyrics from Hotel California Come to mind:

You can check-out any time you like,
But you can never leave!

I think we have the case of someone who has simply checked out for a while. (Heck, Dick checked out last week and I spotted him posting in BS this morning. Quick turnaround!)


29 Aug 21 - 02:02 PM (#4118189)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: gillymor

For the record I wasn't taking issue with anything Jon posted, I appreciated his links, it was the posts prematurely promoting Ivermectin as a proven cure for the virus that I found irresponsible and potentially dangerous.



The links Jon posted weren't the problem, it was the ongoing discussion of the rest of the post. Reference to the original story was removed and he had discussed that also. This thread needs to shift back to the original topic and stop discussing moderation and arguing about misinformation. ---mudelf


30 Aug 21 - 10:53 AM (#4118283)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Regarding booster shots; Maryland made rules that the immuno suppressent may get a booster now, but some hosptals do not consider diabetes included in that group but CVS drugstore does so I went ahead and got a drugstore booster.


30 Aug 21 - 11:39 AM (#4118289)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

One of the reasons store pharmacies are able to distribute the Pfizer vaccine is because the company came back and changed the storage model. In mid-May this report was issued:

FDA In Brief: FDA Authorizes Longer Time for Refrigerator Storage of Thawed Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine Prior to Dilution, Making Vaccine More Widely Available

Making COVID-19 vaccines widely available is key to getting people vaccinated and bringing the pandemic to an end. Pfizer Inc. submitted data to the FDA to support storage of undiluted, thawed vials of its COVID-19 vaccine for up to one month at refrigerator temperatures. This change should make this vaccine more widely available to the American public by facilitating the ability of vaccine providers, such as community doctors’ offices, to receive, store and administer the vaccine.

Additional Information
Based on a review of recent data submitted by Pfizer Inc. today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration is authorizing undiluted, thawed Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine vials to be stored in the refrigerator at 2°C to 8°C (35°F to 46°F) for up to 1 month. Previously, thawed, undiluted vaccine vials could be stored in the refrigerator for up to 5 days.

Pfizer Inc. submitted data to the FDA to demonstrate that undiluted, thawed vials of its COVID-19 vaccine are stable at refrigerator temperatures for up to 1 month.


30 Aug 21 - 03:59 PM (#4118310)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Bringing the pandemic to an end involves making vaccines available world-wide, not just in rich western countries. It also involves persuading everyone to get vaccinated. There are large parts of your country with alarming-low levels of takeup. You have preachers in the Deep South who are more or less ordering their flocks to reject the vaccine. You have a big problem. The Pfizer storage news is good, but on its own it fixes very little.


30 Aug 21 - 04:35 PM (#4118312)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

I did not know about storage rule changes Stilly. Thanks
Steve I had that conversation with the pharmacist and pleaded guilty.
There is slow progress on the global front.


30 Aug 21 - 07:53 PM (#4118332)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

We will live with this virus for years, if not decades, if not forever. We will control its worst effects with vaccines, and vaccines alone. Not with social distancing, not with fear, not with lockdowns, not with outrageous and immoral diktats about not being allowed to mix with our own families and our nearest and dearest, not with masks. Definitely not with masks. We roll out vaccines to the world and we persuade everyone to take them. There is absolutely no other way of getting back to normal life as normal human beings.


30 Aug 21 - 08:10 PM (#4118334)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

We got past the Holocaust, we will get past this.
What people become normalized and accustomed to is beyond belief.


30 Aug 21 - 09:01 PM (#4118338)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

and stuff all anti mask madness.


30 Aug 21 - 09:01 PM (#4118339)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

We'll always have Covid around. We'll find better treatments. More people will get vaccinated, and some people who refuse will die, but it will always be here. I'm just hoping the rabid anti-vaxers will go away.


30 Aug 21 - 09:46 PM (#4118340)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

We will outlive quite a few of those antivaxxers, at this rate.


31 Aug 21 - 08:40 AM (#4118368)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The safe travel recommendation for the US has been reversed.
EU has placed new travel restrictions on the US.

I do not know the status on the US Canadian border.


31 Aug 21 - 09:53 AM (#4118373)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

My daughter is preparing for a trip to Italy at the end of September. Her plans for Japan were scuttled months ago, this is the substitute. Who knows if she'll get to go anywhere after four more weeks pass.


31 Aug 21 - 12:21 PM (#4118381)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

We are not banned from EU at this time. There are only obvious
recommendations to steer clear of our unvaccinated.
The vaccinated can still be carriers and can get sicker than they may expect. Delta packs a big punch of transmissabilty.


31 Aug 21 - 07:13 PM (#4118418)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Another varient has emerged from South Africa.


01 Sep 21 - 06:04 AM (#4118453)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

From the website statista.com (google "Number of administered coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine doses per 100 people in Africa as of August 28, 2021, by country")

Fifteen African nations have fewer than two people in every hundred even partially vaccinated. At the bottom of the pile is the DRC, with a population of 105 million, one in every thousand of whom have received any vaccine. Taking Africa as a whole, around seven people in every hundred have received any vaccine.

We are not safe until everyone is safe. We've hardly got started.


02 Sep 21 - 10:15 AM (#4118595)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Meanwhile, in highly educated countries, this nonsense continues to happen: Sydney Covid patient in Westmead hospital after overdosing on ivermectin and other online ‘cures’
Patient, who suffered vomiting and diarrhoea, part of trend hospital is seeing of people taking unproven substances

I read yesterday that the GOP radio host Rogan was COVID positive and was taking all of the Trump-approved medications, and Ivermectin.

#ShakesHead


02 Sep 21 - 10:55 AM (#4118598)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney

Australia has a small but vocal collection of nutters & anti vaxxers. A member of the ruling (rightwing) party in our federal parliament is one of the noisiest & has just left his party to join one even further to the right. This party is owned by a billionaire who spent $60 million on misinformation & outright lies last federal election & did not gain a seat, leading to the IKEA shop in his neighbourhood putting up a ginormous poster above their building saying he could have bought a seat from them for $39! Craig Kelly’s move to Palmer’s United Australia Party

Someone recently said on Sydney radio We don't have enough villages for the idiots we are producing & a local cartoonist produced a great cartoon on that theme on 31st August


03 Sep 21 - 07:53 AM (#4118691)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

At last, sanity prevails (at least on this matter)

From the BBC

EU and AstraZeneca reach deal to end vaccine row

"The EU and UK-Swedish drug-maker AstraZeneca have settled a row over a shortfall in coronavirus vaccines that affected the European rollout earlier this year.

AstraZeneca has agreed to deliver 200 million doses of its vaccine, which had been promised under a contract, to the EU by the end of March 2022.

The deal puts an end to the EU's pending action in the Belgian courts.

The EU said this week that 70% of adults had been double vaccinated."


03 Sep 21 - 10:29 AM (#4118703)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The US allowed 15 million doses of Pfizer to expire
but there are reasons and excuses
just like everything else
that ends in tradgedy

Pyroclastic clouds burned villagers to a crisp
The hurricane hit our cities like a fist
Red tide poisoned fish and folks alike
A Billion viral graves are about to spike

Once in a lifetime, twice in a week

The astroid was just a sliver
the creek's now a mighty river
The smoke made noon look like midnight
The crops all died of blight

Once in a lifetime, twice in a week

Fever and fits from small ticks
It hit a 100 in the Arctic
Permafrost began to burn
marked a point of no return

Once in a lifetime twice in a week.

Extinction became redemption
from the pain to come
It wasn't bleak for everyone
It was a golden age for some.

Once in a lifetime twice in a week


03 Sep 21 - 11:14 AM (#4118711)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

You don't need hindsight to see how stupid are some of the alternative faux-remedies, yet people announce to the world what they're taking instead of the vaccine. We live in an era of willful stupidity.

Streaming podcsts personality Joe Rogan is one of those idiots.


03 Sep 21 - 02:20 PM (#4118742)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

Will things ever return to 'normal'?

From The Guardian

Anti-vaccine protesters try to storm London offices of medical regulator

"Police have prevented anti-vaccine protesters from storming the headquarters of Britain’s medical regulator during violent clashes in east London.

At least four officers were injured and arrests were made during a confrontation as hundreds of people gathered outside the offices of the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) in Canary Wharf.

Police drew batons and called for reinforcements as protesters attempted to force open the door of the regulator’s offices, with security guards looking on from inside.

Some of the crowd who had gathered at Canary Wharf were later involved in another confrontation outside the Science Museum vaccination centre in Kensington, west London."


03 Sep 21 - 06:59 PM (#4118760)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Raindog I scanned the crowd and identified about a half dozen women.
All the rest could have been suffering from testosterone poisoning?

Political protestors are usually religiously motivated and have decided to be bioterrorists, especially against children, in their anti vax crusade.

Forgive them for they do not know what they do.


04 Sep 21 - 07:35 AM (#4118799)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

It is said that politics today is the new religion.

The new varient of concern is called the mu varient.


04 Sep 21 - 12:15 PM (#4118822)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

From The Guardian newspaper site.

"An Oklahoma doctor has said overdoses of the anti-parasitic drug ivermectin, which many believe without evidence can prevent or cure Covid-19, are helping cause delays and problems for rural hospitals and ambulance services struggling to cope with the resurgent pandemic."

Oklahoma hospitals deluged by ivermectin overdoses, doctor says


04 Sep 21 - 12:36 PM (#4118825)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

That reminds me, I need to give the dogs their heartworm monthly medication this weekend. Ivermectin.


04 Sep 21 - 02:57 PM (#4118832)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Triage - Automatically send to the bottom of the list:
anti vax toxic substance self medicaters,
who are hell bent on winning
their Darwin awards...


05 Sep 21 - 08:50 AM (#4118890)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

i am on a varient hunt.
The Columbian 'blue' varient seems to have some vaccine resistance but little is known yet. Not all varients gain prominence.


05 Sep 21 - 09:21 AM (#4118894)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

The Present and Future of COVID Variants
Experts stress testing, vaccination amid delta surge

In fact, variants have continued to develop and spread since the emergence of delta. The World Health Organization has designated variants Eta, Iota, Kappa, and Lambda “variants of interest” and is tracking 13 additional variants that originated in the U.S., Brazil, the Philippines, Indonesia, Colombia, and other nations.


05 Sep 21 - 10:14 AM (#4118899)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

A future of perpetual varient whack a mole...


05 Sep 21 - 11:11 AM (#4118909)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Shit, I have never won at whack a mole.


05 Sep 21 - 06:30 PM (#4118931)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

From the BBC.

"Brazil and Argentina's World Cup qualifier was abandoned just minutes after kick-off on Sunday after Brazilian health officials objected to the participation of three Argentine players they believe broke quarantine rules.

The visitors walked off the pitch at the Corinthians Arena after the officials came out to stop the game.

The dramatic intervention came hours after Brazil's health authorities had said four England-based players for Argentina had to quarantine."

Brazil v Argentina abandoned after visiting players accused of Covid violation

++
Vaccine passports in nightclubs and other indoor venues in England will be required at the end of this month, the vaccines minister has confirmed.

Nadhim Zahawi said it was the right time to start the scheme for sites with large crowds as all over-18s will have been offered two jabs by then.

Asking people to show certificates with Covid vaccination proof has been criticised by venues and some MPs.

Mr Zahawi said it would ensure the economy could remain open."

Covid-19: Vaccine passports to start in England this month


05 Sep 21 - 07:40 PM (#4118933)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney

Australia - COVID vaccine certificates can be forged within 10 minutes due to 'obvious' security flaw. Near-perfect forgeries of the federal government's COVID-19 vaccine digital certificate can be made in 10 minutes using free software, a member of the public has discovered. Richard Nelson, a software engineer in Sydney, has found an "obvious" security flaw in the Express Plus Medicare app allowing him to make vaccine certificates with any name and date of birth and featuring the background animations meant to prevent forgery. (read on)

As I don't have a smart phone I printed mine out, the background is just the Oz coat of arms, now all I need is a 10x8 photo frame to carry it around! I also have in my wallet the little cardboard appointment folder the medical centre gave me after my first vaccine. It has 2 stickers signed by the nurse giving details of each injection.

sandra


07 Sep 21 - 10:48 AM (#4119097)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

I noticed this story this morning: The W.H.O. lists Mu as a ‘variant of interest.’

Whack-a-mole indeed.


07 Sep 21 - 02:07 PM (#4119120)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

345 children in Texas were hospitalized with COVID-19 on Saturday. Just Saturday.

Meanwhile, data from the CDC. . .


07 Sep 21 - 05:02 PM (#4119130)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog

From The Guardian.

Judge reverses order forcing hospital to treat Covid patient with ivermectin

"Judge cites lack of ‘convincing evidence’ that drug is effective, siding with hospital that refused to administer medication.

On Monday, Judge Michael Oster of Butler county issued an order that sided with West Chester Hospital, citing a lack of “convincing evidence” that the drug – used in small doses in humans against external parasites such as headlice, and in larger doses for animals including cows and horses – could significantly improve the patient’s condition."


07 Sep 21 - 05:50 PM (#4119138)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Years ago a flawed paper was written by someone who fabricated the data that had to do with childhood vaccinations that might have mercury and autism. It was rubbish, it was withdrawn, the authors censured, but it continues to live a life of its own in the hands of anti-vaxxers.

It turns out there was a similar paper to do with Ivermectin that was withdrawn for data and ethical problems, but that continues to be the source of a lot of the misinformation about Ivermectin and COVID-19.

Huge study supporting ivermectin as Covid treatment withdrawn over ethical concerns

The preprint endorsing ivermectin as a coronavirus therapy has been widely cited, but independent researchers find glaring discrepancies in the data

An excerpt from the Guardian article:

The study found that patients with Covid-19 treated in hospital who “received ivermectin early reported substantial recovery” and that there was “a substantial improvement and reduction in mortality rate in ivermectin treated groups” by 90%.

But the drug’s promise as a treatment for the virus is in serious doubt after the Elgazzar study was pulled from the Research Square website on Thursday “due to ethical concerns”. Research Square did not outline what those concerns were.

A medical student in London, Jack Lawrence, was among the first to identify serious concerns about the paper, leading to the retraction. He first became aware of the Elgazzar preprint when it was assigned to him by one of his lecturers for an assignment that formed part of his master’s degree. He found the introduction section of the paper appeared to have been almost entirely plagiarised.

It appeared that the authors had run entire paragraphs from press releases and websites about ivermectin and Covid-19 through a thesaurus to change key words. “Humorously, this led to them changing ‘severe acute respiratory syndrome’ to ‘extreme intense respiratory syndrome’ on one occasion,” Lawrence said.

The data also looked suspicious to Lawrence, with the raw data apparently contradicting the study protocol on several occasions.

“The authors claimed to have done the study only on 18-80 year olds, but at least three patients in the dataset were under 18,” Lawrence said.

“The authors claimed they conducted the study between the 8th of June and 20th of September 2020, however most of the patients who died were admitted into hospital and died before the 8th of June according to the raw data. The data was also terribly formatted, and includes one patient who left hospital on the non-existent date of 31/06/2020.”

There were other concerns.


“The main error is that at least 79 of the patient records are obvious clones of other records,” Brown told the Guardian. “It’s certainly the hardest to explain away as innocent error, especially since the clones aren’t even pure copies. There are signs that they have tried to change one or two fields to make them look more natural.”

People who don't do a close reading on papers like this end up spreading the wrong information. And a lot of people apparently didn't read very carefully.

This article was published July 15, 2021 in The Guardian


08 Sep 21 - 07:54 AM (#4119172)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Yes a UK doctor lied about the vaccine autism threat and it spread like wild fire.

How do crazy ideas develop? Sometimes a grain of truth like this
could be read by a screen writer and base a comedy series BRAIN DEAD https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4877736/
about a parasite causing the brains of consevatives to go insane, to one day 2 years later turning into the magic parasite killing Ivermectin to be a cure for Covid.
I am kidding about this series of events but all it takes is one little lie to capture millions.


08 Sep 21 - 08:28 AM (#4119176)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Based on my experience with 12,000 hypnosis subjects I am certain people are more than predisposed to a 'lie' than most people would expect. An evolutionary adaptation could be the weakest link in our psychology and be the fatal flaw which reverses rational thought in human beings. I have long warned that without being educated to our own likelyhood of hypnotic programing we are ever prone to its negative effects.


08 Sep 21 - 08:37 AM (#4119177)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Yes, one little lie or the propagation of misinformation can spread fake news like wildfire, true enough. Something that Mudcat posters could reflect on.


08 Sep 21 - 09:18 AM (#4119184)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

That is why stupid people react poorly to sarcasm.
In text you can not hear the 'sarcastic inflection'.


08 Sep 21 - 09:34 AM (#4119187)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Pot, kettle.


08 Sep 21 - 09:39 AM (#4119191)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

The chaos of uncertainty combined with stupidity will make this Fall the most challenging time in the coming 'Multidemic' of flu combined with Covid variants and common colds spread by schools.

We found that the spit tests are not accurate and sequencing is best.


08 Sep 21 - 12:26 PM (#4119213)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

THIS IS YOUR BRAIN-THIS IS YOUR BRAIN ON DRUGS
DRUGGIES USE NEEDLES
50 years of anti drug propoganda later it is stuck in some brains.

So what do antivaxxers hear; This is your brain, this is your brain on vaccines. Just say No!

People have been conditioned to not even respect the lives of drug users.

I suggest -THIS IS YOUR DEAD BRAIN ON COVID because it was not vaccinated.


08 Sep 21 - 12:43 PM (#4119214)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Long-COVID is certainly a one-two punch against the brain and lungs of the sufferers.


08 Sep 21 - 01:23 PM (#4119222)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Donuel and Mrzzy, you are both guilty of generating misinformation and/or scaremongering in this thread, so your little sideswipes are, shall we say, not exactly appreciated.


08 Sep 21 - 01:40 PM (#4119224)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

Steve, while I'm pretty sure you already hate me, I'll share this anyway.
I once complained to an acquaintance that a person kept saying things on Mudcat that were stupid, and annoying, and I felt like I had to do something about that.
He told me "Don't play with trolls".
I said, "But he's so wrong and what he says shouldn't be allowed to stand unchallenged."
He said "Don't play with trolls."

While people may not BE trolls, when they provoke an emotional response in you, the messages are trolling. Don't play.

And me, I'll shut up and f*ck off in accordance with imagined reaction to this. Please carry on.

(My "troll" was Martin Gibson, if anyone remembers.)


08 Sep 21 - 01:45 PM (#4119228)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Jeri, I absolutely don't hate you. There are times when I don't understand you but that's par for the course in this two-dimensional world. Actually, I even think I once told you that I loved you... ;-) You're right about those two. I didn't need to react, did I. I should just have said grrr, preferably internally...


08 Sep 21 - 03:00 PM (#4119235)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri

Shhhh. Don't let anyone else know. ;-)


08 Sep 21 - 06:41 PM (#4119251)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/last-pandemic-science-military-60-minutes-2021-09-05/

Both bad news and good news coexist.


08 Sep 21 - 06:47 PM (#4119252)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Good news, bad news and fake news.


09 Sep 21 - 02:32 AM (#4119267)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

.. and... Darwin Awards news...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd8P12BXebo&t=3s&ab_channel=TheNewYorkTimes


09 Sep 21 - 04:28 AM (#4119274)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Powerful stuff there.

I'm not a fan of forcing anyone to have jabs for this or for flu. We've allowed anti-vaxxers and other assorted nutters to throw us behind the curve. We need a massive campaign of public education about this disease with full information and persuasion to the fore. Billboards, radio, telly, ads online...Videos like this one are great - but shove them in front of people, don't hide them on YouTube. I do find it puzzling that there has been a lot of compulsion behind mask-wearing (questionable at best and quite possibly useless) but not behind vaccination (THE only way out of this). But education and persuasion, never compulsion. Compulsion engenders revolt and goes against the grain of democracy. Thin end of the wedge...?


09 Sep 21 - 07:02 AM (#4119294)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Yes the price of stupid is so expenive now it is unaffordable for the unvaccinated who are 99% of the currently infected. The main cause is that some people do not like being told what to do, tough, there are some things you have to do to live.
It is tough being told you now have to die because of your vaccine resitance.

The news here is grim with a quarter million childhood infections, 1 in 4 of all infections. We tried to pretend we turned a corner but in reality we are in the middle of pandemic times and are entering a seasonal multidemic battle with flu as well.

We can easily recognize who contributes new important and unimportant news on the pandemic and those who merely carp about others here. True contributors include links to factual studies and stories. I suggest the 60 minutes story link holds water but you are your own judge.


09 Sep 21 - 10:59 AM (#4119328)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Stop the bickering.


This video from an exhausted and discouraged nurse should be required viewing by all who think refusing the COVID-19 vaccines is only about their rights. You might have to click through and turn on the volume, but it is well worth listening to.


09 Sep 21 - 11:05 AM (#4119329)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

The 60 minutes link is just unscientific bullshit. That's my opinion. No more than that. Let's not be taken in.


09 Sep 21 - 11:21 AM (#4119334)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Perhaps you're not familiar with Sixty Minutes. It is considered a reputable, and at times hard-hitting mainstream news program from CBS, a major American television network. It has been on for decades, and is not "unscientific bullshit."


09 Sep 21 - 12:02 PM (#4119337)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I am referring exclusively to the item linked to, which has a bloke claiming that he has a magic bullet for all viruses or something. He hasn't. We have a programme this end called Panorama, generally reputable if occasionally amateurish, which is also capable of generating bullshit every now and again. It happens. Let's take a look. They did an experimental, untested procedure on a woman nearly dead with sepsis. Completely unethical. Presumably, the experiment withheld the standard emergency antibiotic treatment for sepsis (otherwise they wouldn't have known what had worked...). She recovered in four days (we're told). Fairly rapid recovery from sepsis isn't that unusual. He also claims to have the 1918 flu virus to hand. He hasn't. It's a reconstructed version thereof. We all know about mutant strains these days, don't we? I won't go on. As I said, let's not be taken in. Your man is of interest only. He is by no means the prospective saviour of the world.


09 Sep 21 - 11:22 PM (#4119384)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Steve, your dismissal is not going to fly. You don't know as much about the science as the scientists who were interviewed do. Please stop making assumptions about programs you're not familiar with and about the science you clearly don't have the total grasp of. I trust the reporting from CBS far more than I trust your "I don't think so, it looks like bullshit" pronouncements.


10 Sep 21 - 03:32 AM (#4119390)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

I just heard yesterday from my neighbour that there are three cases of Covid in our (small) village. I was shocked really (so was she) so my husband and I have decided NOT to go to our village fete tomorrow. It's called the Lyng Fling, and comprises a carboot sale, vintage tractors, a fire engine and some Police horses, plus bric-a-brac stalls. It's all outdoors, but there will be children running around and crowds of people.
We had intended to go wearing our clinical masks, but I'm too scared now. Not worth the risk.


10 Sep 21 - 06:54 AM (#4119413)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I gave you a couple of instances from the piece that are highly dubious. I could have quoted more. I'm not dissing the whole five decades of your investigative journalism programme. But here you have a man claiming to have a magic bullet to end all pandemics forever. And you are not even a teensy bit sceptical? I don't think you've read it. I have!

By the way, my background is in biological science. So, just a guess, if you think I don't know as much about the science, etc., it's a fair bet that you know even less. And one deeply-ingrained aspect of scientific endeavour is that one's first reaction to a new idea is scepticism. It then behoves you to delve deeper to look for substance. Well I read the piece and found the substance to be highly dubious, and I gave you just two examples among more that I noticed. OK?


10 Sep 21 - 07:15 AM (#4119416)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I think I'd go and show my face, Eliza, but I might avoid anything indoors or crowding round stalls. Outdoors is pretty safe by all accounts. And you have been jabbed! Nothing would prevent me from having a go at the coconut shy...


10 Sep 21 - 07:17 AM (#4119417)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Yesterday NIH had a 4 hour mass meeting via computer regarding the quarter million infected children and other topics. The weight of the pandemic fight is on NIH since the CDC is now considered broken.
Steve you hate bad news, I post speculative good news and you hate that so I don't care that your crumugeonhood has caused you to be separated from other rationl people. Your use of the word 'we', as if you speak for all Brits, is practically delusional. But having a foil is useful in conveying facts unto other people so you serve a good purpose, just not the one you think.

I was not on the enormous NIH meeting yesterday, I only know those who were. The quarter million infected kids I reported the day before was finally confirmed yesterday. Be it one day or twenty years before the event some may not like my presience, deduction or means of 'knowing'.
Horatio, wise up.


10 Sep 21 - 07:42 AM (#4119419)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

I'm sorry to have to say this, but you have just betrayed the anti-Brit sentiment that has been very thinly veiled through this thread. My use of the word "we" has had nothing to do with speaking for a cabal of Brits (which I never do) and it is very dishonest of you to level that at me. Furthermore, your "news" is never to be relied on without a thorough check. You told us that 99% off infections are in unvaccinated people. That is blatantly untrue, yet that post is still here, unchallenged until now. Yet I'm under attack from two of you for questioning a piece about a man who claims he can end all pandemics for ever. This will undoubtedly be deleted, but I'm watching like a hawk to see whether your untruths and your dishonestly-expressed anti-Brit nonsense also go, along with your accusation of my irrationality (you of all people...) In this neck of the woods you can politely disagree with someone, giving your reasons (which you seldom if ever do) without insulting them. Why don't you try it some time.


10 Sep 21 - 08:53 AM (#4119435)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

Yeah me of all people who you have singled out.
I simply do not accept I am ALWAYS wrong and you are always right.
I don't accuse or blame you or dear old England. Nor is it merely you alone that may harbor an iota of the remaining Victorian arrogance that your parents recalled and taught you but I do not know. -what aboutism goes here-

You may not be the 'pan know itall' or the ultimate organic snopes.com you claim.

now contribute something beyond yourself and stop fussing.


10 Sep 21 - 09:04 AM (#4119437)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

What were your motives for making the false claim that 99% of infected people were unvaccinated? That's not me fussing. That's me challenging your Trumpist-style fake news, mate.


10 Sep 21 - 10:02 AM (#4119442)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Donny - Victorian Brits may have neen 'arrogant'..
well over a hundred years ago...

But NOW that 21st Century Yanks have surpassed them
as the arrogant dominant ubermensch of the world,
it is so amusing to read your 'ugly American' hypocrisy...


Btw.. maybe British scientists might just adhere to a traditional higher standard
of evidence, sceptisism, and professional integrity...???

Though it's a good job we are allies in the fight against fukwit anti vaxxers...

[who do seem to be mostly American,
inflicting their toxic influence on Western civilisation via worldwide social media...]


10 Sep 21 - 10:27 AM (#4119448)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

I RESPECT YOUR POV PFR BUT OUR CIVIL WAR IS 100 YEARS AGO BUT EFFECTS US DAILY;
The past has not passed and effects us today. Yes we are allies in a multitude of ways. I may disagree with one of your compatriots but all of Britain is not my enemy as some may wish to impune. I have an affectionate curiosity about England which is quenched here.
I hope the challenge to the 99% understanding is just an equivalent of a wrong number. It is what our president calls it but is not accurate to a tenth of 1% or even 1%.


10 Sep 21 - 10:28 AM (#4119449)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

99+% of those hospitalized and dying are unvaccinated. The infection of vaccinated people (percentage-wise) is a moving target, but the percentage of those in the ICU on ventilators IS NOT.

There isn't an anti UK sentiment in this thread, and making one up to make your case isn't a way to win points in this discussion.


10 Sep 21 - 11:33 AM (#4119456)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

Btw...

"fuckwit
A person who is not only lacking in clue but is apparently unable or unwilling to acquire clue even when handed it on a plate in generous portions.
"


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=fuckwit&=true



Now that Biden is cracking down hard on anti-vaxxers in his presidential speeches..
He should allow himself the freedom to make liberal use this precisely defined
most appropriate term
when referring to anti-vaxxers...


10 Sep 21 - 11:40 AM (#4119457)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

"99+% of those hospitalized and dying are unvaccinated..."

That isn't what he said, Maggie, and you know it. He said that 99% of infected people are unvaccinated. And he didn't qualify it. It's fake news writ large, Maggie. It's what Donuel does out of sheer habit.


10 Sep 21 - 12:05 PM (#4119460)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

It was only a few weeks ago that it wasn't "fake news" - the science revealing break-through cases is moving. This is a new occurrence in an novel health pandemic and you're slicing it a bit too thin. The lion's share of sick people are unvaccinated.


10 Sep 21 - 12:59 PM (#4119472)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

One thing that's been crystal clear in this pandemic is that "sick" and "infected" are absolutely nothing like the same thing. I'm not slicing anything thin. I'm remarking upon a blatant inaccuracy from a chap with form in that area. In a crisis during which the truth has regularly been a victim, I think we should insist on it whenever we humanly can.


10 Sep 21 - 02:04 PM (#4119479)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker

It's a pandemic...!!!

I'd agree it's wiser to be equally tuff on both enemies and allies
if they do not respect objectivity and truth;
carelessly spreading misinformation...


Allies talking unscientific bollocks in public are a liability,
and a tactical gift to the enemy...

We are the ones who need to be the more stringently sensible,
and try our best not to be seen as fukwits
by the wavering undecided as yet unvaccinated...


10 Sep 21 - 02:12 PM (#4119480)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

Couldn't agree more. Olé!


10 Sep 21 - 03:03 PM (#4119482)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Dr. Klotman's Video Message - Week 77 Issued today, Sept. 10, 2021.

Baylor College of Medicine's Dr. Paul Klotman reviews the numbers, projections, the latest on vaccine efficacy, fear associated with the delta variant and the latest science.


10 Sep 21 - 07:01 PM (#4119501)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw

He's a sane voice all right, Maggie. I got half way through, got his message then had to stop to do other stuff. I'll try to remember as close as I can to what he said half way through, that "the only chance we have is to vaccine our way out." Spot on. We will never mask our way out or social distance our way out, not from now on. We must tell everyone how to be sensible, to know how the thing is spread but to allow everyone their freedoms to live normal lives. The playing field has changed, and it's all about vaccines. Unfortunately, unlike here, tens of millions of your countrymen have yet to realise that. Even Joe Biden, bless him, is sounding desperate about it. And let's not be parish-pump about it. We are not safe until the world is safe. And that means vaccinating everyone, everywhere.

A dear friend of mine has a lovely daughter, now in her 20s, who has achieved amazing things in the Royal College of Music. Next week she's playing the solo part in Mozart's clarinet concerto with our local orchestra. I won't be going because I don't want to be up close and personal with hundreds of other people for two hours in our local hall, not while the case rates are so high round here. It breaks my heart, but the risk just isn't worth it as far as I'm concerned. .


14 Sep 21 - 09:11 PM (#4119981)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney

a lighter note - T-shirt competition inspires Sydney's lockdown creativity for a good cause


15 Sep 21 - 04:04 AM (#4120005)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou

I think we'll be offered booster jabs fairly soon. We have both had two jabs of Astra Zeneca, but apparently the boosters might be a different vaccine. We're both wholeheartedly 'up for it' and will be thankful for the opportunity to safeguard our immunity. Husband being black and working in a school (while the pupils are present) is at risk, as am I, being elderly and with a heart condition, so 'Bring It On'!


15 Sep 21 - 06:21 AM (#4120017)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

My third jab was mildly sore just like the first two.
When Isreali data is combined with global data, Moderna was slightly better than Phizer and Az.


15 Sep 21 - 09:36 PM (#4120078)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

If memory serves, Dick Army in the dead of night inserted language into a bill giving amnesty to vaccine makers that protected them from being sued by concerned parents that were misled by a UK doctor over mercury content as a preservative. Dick Army was a Congressman who supported the Tea Party loonies on the far right. 24 years ago the hybrid seeds of the wierd right and whacky vaccine conspiracies were planted in the politics of America. Jenny McCarthy and other wierdos kept up thier campaign for years. Today when vaccines are even more important the murky history of anti vaccinators has reached a critical mass. Dick Army went on to be a hero of the Tea Party, although Dick was working against their vaccine conspiracy. He was surely rewarded by big pharma and was a pioneer of groups that were historically insurrectionist friendly like the Tea Party.
I do not give him the credit for the white nationalist nazis or KKK aspects of the current Republican strategy and he did not know how far his Newt Gingrich antics would be amplified but he did start a political fire in the Capitol that night at 3AM. To me it supports Chaos theory about how a small flap of an insect's wings could grow into a deadly storm.


15 Sep 21 - 10:41 PM (#4120080)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Dick Armey is from Texas, he represented the district that touches Fort Worth on the north and covers much of Denton County. No surprise there. He was/is a jerk.


16 Sep 21 - 07:43 AM (#4120105)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel

1 in 500 Americans have died from Covid. Hospitals in the South, Alaska, and even Virginia are so full that trauma and standard care for heart attacks and strokes are absent or limited.
I have made speculations about scenarios that have magnified antivaxxer sentiments but I hold Facebook and Trump most culpable for resistence to vaccination. Face book for amplifying OUTRAGE and Trump for his lies and behavior.


16 Sep 21 - 03:57 PM (#4120140)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin

Live fast, die young and leave a good looking corpse, as the biker saying goes.

The Sturgis crowd might have to settle for two out of three.

How an embalmer sees it


16 Sep 21 - 08:24 PM (#4120155)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy

Being inside for a year has been associated with an increase in nearsightedness in children. The study I heard about was with third graders. Take'm outside sometimes, apparently...


17 Sep 21 - 01:59 PM (#4120205)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

New York City now requires proof of vaccination if you want to dine indoors. Three women from Texas decided to beat up the hostess who asked for proof of vaccination.

Tourists Attack N.Y.C. Restaurant Hostess Over Vaccine Proof, Police Say
Enforcement of a city policy requiring proof of vaccination to dine indoors began Monday. Days later, a hostess at Carmine’s was assaulted after asking three women for their vaccine cards, the police said.


17 Sep 21 - 02:08 PM (#4120207)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

Caught On Video: Carmine’s Hostess Attacked After Asking Tourists For Proof Of Vaccination


17 Sep 21 - 10:23 PM (#4120232)
Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage

FDA advisory panel backs coronavirus boosters only for the elderly, those at high risk
The twin votes Friday represented a heavy blow to the Biden administration’s sweeping effort to shore up nearly all Americans’ protection amid the spread of the highly contagious delta variant.

Chances are this won't open, they deploy the paywall pretty quickly. But here are the high points:

WASHINGTON — An influential federal advisory panel overwhelmingly rejected a plan Friday to give Pfizer COVID-19 booster shots to most Americans, but it endorsed the extra shots for those who are 65 or older or run a high risk of severe disease.

The twin votes represented a heavy blow to the Biden administration’s sweeping effort to shore up nearly all Americans’ protection amid the spread of the highly contagious delta variant.

The decision was made by a committee of outside experts who advise the Food and Drug Administration.

In a surprising turn, the panel first rejected, by a vote of 16-2, boosters for nearly everyone. Members cited a lack of safety data on extra doses and also raised doubts about the value of mass boosters, rather than ones targeted to specific groups.

Then, in an 18-0 vote, it endorsed the extra shot for select portions of the U.S. population — namely, those most at risk from the virus.

That would help salvage part of the White House’s campaign but would still be a huge step back from the huge plan proposed by administration a month ago to offer booster shots of both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines to nearly all Americans eight months after they get their second dose.

Friday’s vote was just the first step. The FDA itself is expected to make a decision on boosters in the next few days, though it usually follows the committee’s recommendations.

The offering of boosters is also subject to approval by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. A CDC advisory panel is expected to take up the question