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Hull Shanty Festival 2012

19 Apr 12 - 04:52 PM (#3340582)
Subject: Hull Shanty Festival 2012 statement
From: ossonflags

Hya everyone, in view of the countless requests and concerns and the need to set the record straight, we are now in a position to publish this document fo public consumption:

STATEMENT REGARDING HULL SHANTY FESTIVAL.

Background . . . . . .

The last "Sea Fever" festival (Number 21) was held in July2010. The City Council Events Team subsequently decided to "pull the plug" on "Sea Fever" due to financial constraints.
A group of Pub licensees led by Pete Smith of "Ruscadors" formed a group in 2011 to keep a maritime event alive in the Marina / Fruit Market / Queen Street area of the City. They invited Mick and myself to participate and organise the shanty singing.
At the start of this small but successful "Hull Shanty Festival", held in July last year, the Leader of the Council (Steve Brady) gave an interview in the free paper. In this interview he promised to restore the event to its' former status. At a meeting earlier this year he promised Hull Shanty Festival an increased budget which would have enabled us to produce a much enhanced event for 2012.

What's happened . . . . .

This all turned to ashes in our mouths when we were subsequently told that the budget would have to be shared with a company who wished to run a "Hull Folk Festival" but had no money. The City wanted to do this in conjunction with the maritime event. The H.S.F committee were very disappointed at this news but nevertheless resolved to see if this scheme was in any way viable.

Both Mick and myself are well aware that in these difficult economic times, economies have to be made and the City has to ensure maximum value for every pound spent. We therefore met the third party along with Pete Smith, (chairman of "Hull Shanty Festival") to see if there was any possibility of productive co-operation to produce a joint Maritime / Folk event. The agreed outcome the meeting was that co-operation might be possible in principle, but only if further money was available. Both parties were agreed that whilst synergies could be found in the provision of festival infrastructure, the existing budget promised to HSF was insufficient to fund a credible artiste line-up for a double-focus event.
This joint position was communicated to City by the Third Party.

We (Pete & Mick) then spent some considerable time in debate and research because, as a result of the joint meeting we had our own doubts as to the viability of the "Folk Festival" plan and also the likelihood of the third party being able to deliver it.

The City then came back with a negative response on increased funding and also making even the existing funding conditional on a "Joint event".

Regretfully our conclusion was that - in our view and experience - the proposal was not viable on a "half budget" and would only result in a dilution of what the Council were trying to achieve.
This was communicated to the City Events team on 31st March and we have had no response

I am sorry that it has come to this but we have regretfully withdrawn our support for and association with the event.
We know that we could have produced a good Maritime Festival but giving half the budget to an unknown and untried enterprise was really the last straw.

Regards and best wishes.


Pete Hayselden & Mick McGarry


19 Apr 12 - 06:14 PM (#3340599)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Paul Davenport

Thanks for the heads-up guys. Can't really see what else you could have done.
cheers
Paul


20 Apr 12 - 05:31 AM (#3340737)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: ossonflags

Thanks Paul.


20 Apr 12 - 08:36 AM (#3340797)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Linda Kelly

This is galling to say the least Mick. Especially since the profile of folk music within Hull has dissipated since the demise of the established clubs witihn the city and relies on sessions etc of which you and other friends are founder members-so apart from a recent revival at Pave, I can only think that the other party is an interloper with an eye on the dosh. I certainly have not been approached as organiser of cottingham Live for any feedback or input into a likely folk event-and we have over 25 years experience within the club of running folk music events in the area.

I think it has been hijacked, and it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.One is tempted say let's do another People's festival but it would almost certainly be Hull CC who would be bathing in the reflective glory. Its a poor show for both yours and Pete's efforts over the years. Will be interesting to see how many are attracted to a folk festival which presumably will work to the disadvantage of Beverley Folk Festival-probably not as many as the shanty festival! Anyway we are here if you need us!


20 Apr 12 - 08:48 AM (#3340800)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Sir Roger de Beverley

Sad to see another one bite the dust. However, I think that you right Mick to walk away rather than be linked to something that wasn't what you wanted it to be.

Rog


20 Apr 12 - 10:11 AM (#3340845)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: The DeanMeister

So who is it that's screwed it up...??? Surely we would know said third party? Interested observer.


20 Apr 12 - 11:33 AM (#3340876)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Geoff the Duck

Certainly sounds like someone trying to hijack the cash from a non-profit event.
Quack!
GtD.


20 Apr 12 - 11:39 AM (#3340882)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Willa

Thanks for the update, Mick.
I agree entirely with what Linda and others have said. I know that you and Pete put in a lot of work last year and will have done much of it again this year.

It's a sad loss!


20 Apr 12 - 02:13 PM (#3340945)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham

I was at one of the meetings with Pete H when Brady promised to back the Shanty festival and was talking in glowing terms of increasing the budget and how it would be great to get back to something like the original format. All of the other council people there were nodding and giving approval to all this and our suggestions re inviting some of the boats back and even providing something towards the boat expenses. What a shambles! All of this should have been done and dusted 8 months ago. Needless to say I'm withdrawing my offer of help and sticking with Mick and Pete.

However, I don't see why we shouldn't still run a low budget local event in the Maritime Museum and Ferens Art gallery like last year, with the help of Yorkshire Garland.


20 Apr 12 - 02:21 PM (#3340950)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: MoorleyMan

Thanks for the update Mick, and for the record I too totally agree with Linda's heartfelt sentiments.
What a kick in the teeth for you Mick and Pete. And after all you've given to the city over these difficult years too. It's disgusting to treat you this way to put it mildly. Words fail me.
My support and loyalty lie with you, comrades.
MM


20 Apr 12 - 02:26 PM (#3340953)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Barb'ry

We're gutted for you as well - you have all worked so hard and last year's event was such a great success.

Hope you might be able to run something again another year (with or without the council).

Take care
Barbara and Nine Tenths


20 Apr 12 - 03:41 PM (#3340990)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Paul Davenport

I'm with Steve on this. The weird thing here is that we had a great festival last year without the HCC. Okay so they came in and gave some cash when it was already a done deal. The fact was and is, we don't actually need them.


20 Apr 12 - 04:34 PM (#3341011)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,linda Kelly

How great it would be to do a concert in the maritime museum...we are sticking with Mick and Pete!


20 Apr 12 - 06:35 PM (#3341042)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,old git

I'd just like to endorse all the above comments! Let me know if i can help in any way!
geoff t


20 Apr 12 - 06:42 PM (#3341046)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Snuffy

In full agreement with the sentiments everyone here has expressed.

And you, to whom adversity has dealt the final blow
With smiling bastards lying to you everywhere you go
Turn to, and put out all your strength of arm and heart and brain
And like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again.


20 Apr 12 - 07:01 PM (#3341054)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: SussexCarole

Sorry to hear this news


20 Apr 12 - 07:04 PM (#3341056)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

So long as Ron is in the country at the time I am sure we would be in, gratis, I agree wholeheartedly with your stance, sounds like another Simon Boak and Pickering Folk festival.


21 Apr 12 - 08:04 AM (#3341236)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST

'Rise again' indeed. I'm with Linda (and actually all of you). Maritime Museum as a venue was an unrecognised gem accoustically and I guess we've still got a window in our diaries?
In the most economical sense, what is actually required nuts and bolts wise? Funds/donations/banners? plus ........ ? sponsorship, accommodation, boats? PA, goodwill, sunshine!
Regards, Hazel.


21 Apr 12 - 08:11 AM (#3341237)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Kevin Young

The feedback from the public that come to Lyrics each week show a lack of faith in HCC, this will really sicken them. Like all above we are in total support of Pete, Mick and the rest of the team. Hopefully they will pull something out of the bag and we can can get on and enjoy the music and songs.


21 Apr 12 - 08:23 AM (#3341239)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Pistachio

OOps, that's me 2 above ( tho I know you'll have worked it out!)

Hx


22 Apr 12 - 11:39 AM (#3341697)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Guest

I can understand how frustrating it must be for enthusiatic and gifted devotees of minority interests to deal with politicians of any colour and at any level and sympathise with them fully.

So, if you were able to run a successful event last year without the help of the (perceived) great and good why not do the same this year?

People obviously enjoyed it so why deprive them of that enjoyment?


22 Apr 12 - 11:57 AM (#3341705)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Les from Hull

Actually Hull City Council did help financially last year, but also added certain official pressures like First Aid and security. Well we all know how violent these shanty festivals can be!


22 Apr 12 - 01:02 PM (#3341738)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Guest

Has this mr brady had any further communications with pete and mick, maybe he could at least let you know who the third party where.


22 Apr 12 - 05:00 PM (#3341836)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham

They know who the 3rd party is and he hasn't a clue. Mick has spoken to him and he couldn't even name one folk artist. As Mick said earlier they sent a letter to the council and there has been no response, which doesn't surprise me.


23 Apr 12 - 03:55 PM (#3342260)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham

The term 'backhander' was a well-worn one back in the fishing days.


24 Apr 12 - 05:23 AM (#3342442)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Paul Davenport

So, you're suggesting a traditional slant to the proceedings Steve?
Is anyone banging on a door in the council offices re the rudeness of no reply?


24 Apr 12 - 01:59 PM (#3342660)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Guest pro event

We now have two Guest, guests.

I am the one who suggested that it seemed sensible / possible to go forward without the backing of the council.

As there has been no response from the leading lights is it that this is not possible or acceptable?


24 Apr 12 - 06:39 PM (#3342808)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Johnjo

Such a shame, but is it still possible to run something in the Minerva and Ruscadors and ignore the council altogether? Even if it's just a singaround in 1 room, a session in another, and solo spots on a stage in another, with, maybe, a Morris team outside? Split between 2 pubs?

Is it definite that Cllr Brady is aware of the nonsense that's gone on? Could someone in a council office be sitting on letters/emails, in the hope that the 'big boss' doean't get to hear that they've cocked-up? Wouldn't be the first time....


25 Apr 12 - 09:20 AM (#3343029)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

OMG, we are living in a sty and anyone who points fingers at FiFA for corruption need to look in their backyard, not that IO am saying that this is due to corruption although it has been my experience that local authority is riddled with corruption, particularly "strategic partnerships" a device that allows the allocation of contracts without competitive tendering. One company was given a contract, which we had priced for, they did not have the expertise to do it, so they then asked us if we could do it for them at the same price we quoted the council, now what the hell is that about? Well we asked the council and they said this company was a "Strategic Partner" and so they were awarded the contract and the other quotes not considered. This situation, if I read it right, is some numpty with no prior knowledge of the folk scene sees a salary opportunity paid for by the council and has used some muscle to get in on the action. Well name them here! I haven't heard anything so ridiculous.


25 Apr 12 - 10:09 AM (#3343056)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

I think a heads up ought to go out to the agents that they may have another Pickering Folk Festival on their hands and insist on fees upfront for any artists booked.


26 Apr 12 - 08:42 AM (#3343485)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Les from Hull

I don't know that anyone is really suggesting corruption. In my opinion (and I worked for this Council for 36 years) the main problems are ignorance and unwillingness to take risks.
In this particular case the Council seems unwilling to use the expertise built up over many years particularly Pete's (Shanty Jack) who booked the artists for the equivalent event for over 20 years. And folk festivals up and down the country are almost always organised by folk enthusiasts who know what folkies want and give immense amounts of time for nothing. I personally would be very wary of any festival run by 'businessmen' as there's not usually enough money available to provide a reasonable profit. That's why we have to rely on sponsorship. Last year we were happy to go ahead with a festival sponsored by local busineses and organisations relying on good connections built up over the years and many friends giving up their services for free or expenses only. The Council's late offer of sponsorship was very welcome but in no way vital. I know that Pete and Mick have spent plenty of time and money arranging this year's festival and it seems very wrong to be moving the goalposts at the eleventh hour (lovely mixed metaphor there to lighten the mood)
I was often told that the Hull event was considered the best in the country and I know it attracted enthusiasts from far away. It seems such a retrograde step to change a winning formula for change's sake.

Last year


26 Apr 12 - 09:07 AM (#3343493)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Les from Hull

I should also have pointed out that I understand that the desire to have a joint folk/maritime event probably hinges on the desire to save costs on policing, street closures and such. Last year I was chatting to a couple of off-duty coppers outside the Minerva who were pleased to hear that we were having a Shanty Festival. 'There's never any trouble at that' they said. 'But that Freedom Festival attracts pickpockets from 50 miles away.'


26 Apr 12 - 12:51 PM (#3343595)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: mally

I agree Les. Last year all I saw in way of police was 2 PCSOs with nothing better to do than stand and watch the performers at the back of Ruscadors

      Mally


26 Apr 12 - 05:27 PM (#3343720)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Linda Kelly

I agree Les -it isnt a question of corruption but naivety.


26 Apr 12 - 09:01 PM (#3343814)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,ian268

The council are making a mistake - The Shanty has been established for years by people who know how to run it. Audiences come from far and wide to support it and spend money in the area. Why can't they just let it be. Hull's heritage as a seaport deserves to have one. I heard Brady on radio recently blabbing about getting people in to the old town - and he would see to it. Nice start Stephen.

Anyway you could still do one in Minerva and Ruscadors - I'm sure they would support you with a little budget - and keep it free entry -enough people would turn up on what surely would be a busy weekend - like 2011. Good luck Pete and Mick, Les. But you should try it without council help. Just see what happens.


25 May 12 - 06:12 PM (#3355688)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Jane of 'ull

Any update on this? It was really great last year despite the council pulling the money. I'd hate to see it suffer, it's such an important part of our local heritage.


26 May 12 - 11:01 AM (#3355875)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham

I've not heard any more. With the council promising to back it and then pulling it at the last minute it doesn't give us much chance to organise something else.


01 Jun 12 - 08:00 AM (#3357973)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: mally

I have just contacted HCC events team and at last they have dates for this.It will be called Hull folk and maritime festival and the dates are.Aug.17th 18th and19th.No website yet but they are getting round to it.Thats a lot of help init?


         Mally


01 Jun 12 - 10:23 AM (#3358032)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: MoorleyMan

No help whatsoever. How short-sighted...
Never mind - even if it does happen, those dates will be no good to most of us, especially at this short notice. I'm already away that weekend and I suspect many others will be off to Whitby.
I despair...
When will they ever learn? (I feel a song comin' on...)


01 Jun 12 - 11:08 AM (#3358048)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Jane of 'ull

I've also spoken to HCC events team and they told me more or less the same as Mally. The main day is to be Sat 18th August, with events on at participating pubs etc on the Friday night and Sunday.


01 Jun 12 - 07:43 PM (#3358198)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Les from Hull

First weekend of Whitby Folk Week! Well that shows how much they know about folk music. Pure brilliance!


02 Jun 12 - 02:41 AM (#3358279)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

Has Simon Boak got anything to do with this?


02 Jun 12 - 08:56 AM (#3358323)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,old git

The Roaring Forties will be at Whitby.
Just exactly who is running this? Won't somebody please name names!!
geoff t


02 Jun 12 - 12:37 PM (#3358381)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Blowzabella sans cookie

This is beginning to sound very like what happened at Lancaster - after having a very successful festival for years - popular and with integrity - they dropped it, then along came someone else - a music promoter - who thought that simply by booking a few maritime singers, he would tap into the crowd who had previously attended. He did no liaison with the pubs, no marketing to the folk audience and the performers found themselves in venues where the clientele were primarily simply there for a night out - no to listen to sea songs or shanties. In one case, I know the artist never got paid, because it was unclear whether their contract was with the festival promoter or the pub - and in another (the Maritime Museum) all performances had to be pulled at very short notice because neither the festival or the museum had considered the need for a TEN.

The organisers of the old Lancaster Maritime Festival very much wanted to disassociate themselves with this 'shadow' of what had been a great event, and I suspect that Shanty Jack feels much the same about Hull. Sometimes it's best to let things go, rather than have them become sad shadows of what had been great events


02 Jun 12 - 02:37 PM (#3358438)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Carol

I don't believe it


02 Jun 12 - 02:40 PM (#3358439)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,old git

Spot on Blowz!


02 Jun 12 - 04:04 PM (#3358473)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Blowzabella sans cookie

Just to clarify - I don't mean for an instant that Shanty jack wouldn't have fought with all his heart to keep the event going - even in a lessened form - as long as he felt it still had 'heart' and 'integrity'. But I don't think that he would have been prepared to continue to try and keep himself involved once he felt that it was being pulled in a very different direction - the shanty element would soon become subsumed and Pete loves the music too much to let that happen and continue to be associated with it.

Sometimes, the last bit of control you have in such a situation is to take yourself away from it


02 Jun 12 - 07:21 PM (#3358554)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GeoffLawes

It is only tonight that I have become aware of this thread and the upsetting news about the shanty festival. What a shame. Choosing the same dates as the Whitby Folk Week does not suggest that those responsible have a great deal of insight into what they are dealing with. If an alternative shanty festival is a possibility I am willing to help. ( but not during Whitby Folk Week, obviously)


03 Jun 12 - 08:58 AM (#3358720)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

We can't do August cos Martin is in Mystery plays and Ron and I are Hols. (Kids and Grand kids) but september could be good for alternate do.
Peter


03 Jun 12 - 10:41 AM (#3358747)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: mally

I think this thing in the pubs is some kind of afterthought to keep the people who have supported this all these years happy and it's cost them nowt.I don't even believe the've even approached the pubs.I'd like to know otherwise. They don't really have a clue do they?

         Mally


14 Jul 12 - 01:07 PM (#3376163)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

So did this enterprise get off the ground then, can't see any mention of it anywhere?


14 Jul 12 - 04:20 PM (#3376233)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham

I was going to suggest just holding a local concert in the Maritime Museum as some sort of gesture but it's far too late now.

The first weekend in September, the old slot, has now been taken over by 'Folk Sail' at the Yorkshire Waterways Museum in Goole and it was hoped that one of the days would be taken over by Shanty UK as earlier this year, but the word is now that there is something on the same weekend in Liverpool and most of the groups would be at that. However 'Folk Sail' is going ahead regardless. All the usual boats that attend the Shanty Festival will be at Goole, and if it goes the way it went last year there will be concerts on both days and opportunities for sessions. Before all of this can be arranged we need to know what the final word is on the Liverpool do.

If something's happening on the 18th August nothing has surfaced in Hull yet, no boats there, no folk people I know contacted. Anybody out there know anything?


14 Jul 12 - 07:11 PM (#3376305)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Jane of 'ull

I just did a Google search and all I found is this:

http://www.ents24.com/web/festival-tickets/Hull-Folk-%26-Maritime-Festival-3008203.html

A bit of folk but not much maritime, and pretty pricey!

J


15 Jul 12 - 04:08 AM (#3376403)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

That is so so funny, A folk and Maritime band with one Shanty band, I suppose the organisers got the full funding so long as they called it a Folk and Maritime Festival. There only saving grace is having Blackbeards Teaparty, that is if anyone in Ull have heard of them, I suppose money is money and if they haven't been booked for Whitby why not take the money, same for Edwina and Monkeys Fist,
I also think that none three may not know what has happened.


15 Jul 12 - 02:47 PM (#3376626)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham

We have heard of BTP in Hull as they're only from York and they did a spot at Beverley last year. They are a young forward-looking band. I don't think they'd appeal to the majority of punters who go to maritime fests despite the name. They are very likely blissfully unaware of all the politics involved. I don't think Edwina has any maritime connection. 'Monkey's Fist', is that Mick Haywood's group from Whitby? Surely not, they'd be in Whitby.


15 Jul 12 - 02:55 PM (#3376633)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham

Okay, got Monkey's Fist on a website. They've been around for a while and look as if they're fairly local. Yes, by all means take the money and run. Be interesting to see what sort of a bollocks they make of it. If anybody is planning on going it would be interesting to see a report. I'm not going to Whitby till midweek so I'll keep a look out in the local rag.


15 Jul 12 - 04:24 PM (#3376673)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

Monkeys Fist are Wessies, nice chaps, I wonder if they were aware of the situation they would have accepted the gig, I think BTP may have given it second thoughts but probably would have still done it, If I see Stuart or Tim I will let them know what happened. Edwina is a sweetheart, a sassy sweetheart and party animal, I last saw her charging about Whitby last folk week so expect she will turn up there again. Times is 'ard and I do not begrudge anyone any paid gig but I think they ought to know. Monkeys Fist are at Whitby this weekend doing Richard Graingers Seafest gig, if anyones going they might mention it to them.


15 Jul 12 - 06:13 PM (#3376725)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham

Perhaps someone at Whitby might sing 'The Blackleg Miner'.


16 Jul 12 - 08:25 AM (#3376967)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Tyke

Hi Steve, Mick Haywood's Shanty Group is Coblers Monday they have never appeared/performed at a Shanty Festival.

However a CD with the Title "Sea Shanties" and I quote "A collection of great sounds brought to you by Hull's greatest sea shanty venues....." Sub title "Minerva Hotel, Ruscadors & Fruit." "FAMOUS SEA SHANTIES RECORDED LIVE FOR YOUR ENJOYMENT"

"HULL SHANTY FESTIVAL 2011"

This CD carries a Copy write of 2011 Blueprint Hull!
It states that the music is by Cobblers Monday and it was reordered in Whitby! Well yes it was recorded in Whitby by COBLERS MONDAY (that's spelt with one B as in Coble! Not two B's as in Bootlegged!)
The copy I have was bought at one of the 2011 Hull Shanty Venues for £7 again a rip off considering only three tracks will play.

The original CD was called Whitby Cured and the music it contains was commissioned by English Heritage for use in Whitby Abbey in particular for it's then New Visitors Centre in 2002. Inside the Visitors Centre you will be able to view a 60 foot screen showing slides and a narration about the Abbey and Whitby. On this display you will hear me singing "The Whitby Fishermans Hymn"

Mick Haywood was also contacted by agents for the Mini Endeavour that provides trips out into Whitby Bay every Half Hour. The trip which takes 30min starts with two of Coblers Monday's members doing a scripted Narration about Captain Cook this is followed by tracks from the CD being played over the Ships Loud Speaker. As the Mini Endeavour enters the Harbour on its return you will often hear my rendition of "Paddy Lay Back" on ether side of the Harbour.

Coblers Monday have also made several Television Appearances and appear in a Film about the Grand Turks First Visit to Whitby.

Both the double sleeve notes written by Mick Haywood and the CD are copyright 2002 and an all rights statement of probation is clearly visible on both CD and Sleeve. Notes

There is no doubt in my mind that this CD is poor quality direct copy from the Coblers Monday Album "Whitby Cured". I was the one who did the final mix from the original Wave CD, including adding the sounds of the sea and seagulls to the Mix and I also hand produced the Jet printed out the sleeves including Cutting Trimming and sweeping up afterwards and quality checking each CD.

Other Copyright infringements also occur on this Bootlegged CD including the use of the Colours Red and Yellow which the Shell Oil Company own the rights to. This is not about money as far as Coblers Monday are concerned however I personally take note of the one Million Pound Record Deal given to the Cornish Group "Fishermen's Friends" YES! Something Sucks Big Time In Hull!


16 Jul 12 - 08:56 AM (#3376977)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Les from Hull

Hull Folk and Maritime Festival website
Many elements of the site are 'under construction'.
It seems that the festival will be Friday and Saturday, so I might pop down and have a look - it's only yards from my place anyway.

I've got no problems with the people who have accepted bookings for this festival. There's friends of mine on the list, although they might be surprised to find themselves regarded as 'folk'. I just wonder why the City Council has decided to move away from a very successful formula to this commercial effort.


16 Jul 12 - 09:15 AM (#3376983)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Les from Hull

A little internet research identifies Hull Folk Festival Limited


16 Jul 12 - 02:12 PM (#3377141)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

be careful with that last link it brings up some shit that is difficult to get out of


16 Jul 12 - 02:43 PM (#3377162)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham

Thanks for the warning, Stallion. Shit all round then! Let's face it, at the moment Hull is shit, but the big question is, what do we do to dig ourselves out.

A couple of lines in tonight's HDM add the Jody McKenna Band to the line-up. I think they're related to one of the pub owners. Hmmm!

BTW headline runs 'Celebrating folk tradition at city maritime festival'. Now let's see what 'folk tradition' are they actually celebrating? Would that be the old fish-dock tradition of back-handers? And what would be the maritime connection? Oh, yes they're using part of 'Humber' Street, and the lightship which is always there, well the punters will have to walk past that. The article actually informs us there will be 'live music as well as theatre, art and film'. Arts festival, yes, maritime festival, no, Steve Brady!


16 Jul 12 - 03:23 PM (#3377180)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: mally

Hull Folk Festival Limited !!!! Does this mean they have sole rights to run a Folk festival in Hull funded by the rate payer?
I also noticed the general information is in latin , does this mean the pope may pay us visit and what songs might he singing?

    Mally


16 Jul 12 - 03:31 PM (#3377185)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

Hull, Scarborough WTF is happening, Scarborough Seafest has a heavy metal band headlining with garage punk band supporting! I suppose they have been hijacked, a la Somali Pirates, is that the tenuous link? Anyway Whitby next week, Hull when?


16 Jul 12 - 04:16 PM (#3377216)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: nutty

Unfortunately, folkies are in the minority and predominately elderly. I'm sure councils feel that rate payers money should be spent on catering for the greater majority.

We may also have a different interpretation on what makes a "Maritime " festival.
Both Hull and Scarborough (as seaside towns) have every right to call their events just that.

Perhaps the answer has to be "If you can't beat them - join them". No one can influence events, or bring about change, if they are not involved.


16 Jul 12 - 06:17 PM (#3377279)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Les from Hull

Perhaps this link is more helpful - Hull Folk Festival Limited directors Sorry if I messed up Stallion, old horse!

That's not Latin, Mally, it's temporary body text put there by the web designer to show what the page will look like when the real text is supplied.

Yes there is a relationship between Jody McKenna and the organisers. I don't have a problem with that. Jody is a talented local singer/songwriter with an excellent band who also feature with Nahro Zagros and in the Hillbilly Troupe.

I've not been asked to be involved. The people who were involved decided against further involvement (see the statement that started this thread). And as the organisers have selected the dates when Hull will be mostly devoid of folkies it will be difficult for much local folkie involvement.

Perhaps the organisers will make an appearance on this forum. But I doubt it, as they don't seem to know much about folk music.


16 Jul 12 - 07:37 PM (#3377338)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Tyke

Well yes Les not the first time Hull has clashed with Whitby Folk Weeks first Weekend though. Must be to do with the tides because it also clashes with Whitby Regater. Let's not get started on Jane Kenyon AKA Whitby Regatter Limited.


16 Jul 12 - 09:49 PM (#3377411)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Guest

How many different ways are there to spell Regatta?

Incidentally the mighty Kenyon (canyon) AKA Miss X featured in a recent Private Eye exposť - will be interesting to see how things develop from now on. There's certainly something rotten in North Yorkshire police authority and Whitby politics at large to mention but the Railway Shed fraud as an example.

BTW Whitby Folk Week only has ONE weekend.


17 Jul 12 - 07:50 AM (#3377595)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Girl Friday

Only yesterday, (and before I'd seen this thread), I said I'd quite like to go to Hull Maritime Festival. Not any more !


17 Jul 12 - 11:04 AM (#3377714)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham

Don't be too downhearted or put off, Friday. Us Ullites 'ave a knack of digging ourselves out of the s--t. Watch this space for next year.

It helps to know a year in advance that you can't rely on the politicians, but not a few months before.


17 Jul 12 - 11:58 AM (#3377744)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

Yup Girl friday, keep t'ear tut ground


18 Jul 12 - 06:08 AM (#3378195)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Girl Friday

Not in this weather stallion {: it might rot.


15 Aug 12 - 05:34 AM (#3390371)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Nick

I'm astonished that something called "Hull Folk & Maritime Festival" could have so little actual folk and virtually nothing maritime.

I know who the organiser/"third party" is and only in Hull would we have a folk festival organised by someone who knows bugger all about folk. I'm actually a little angry about the whole thing - it's okay saying the council have to fund wisely but the Shanty festival was always a roaring success and well attended - to paraphrase Les's comments from up above, it's change for change's sake. The chap in person does a lot for the local music and arts scene (depending on your viewpoint perhaps), and this is to be applauded, but this does not mean he should be given carte blanche to organise something so far outside of his area of expertise.

Nothing against any of the performers, many of whom I've seen and liked, and some of whom I know, but just because someone plays an acoustic guitar does not mean they are FOLK.

I'd suggest that the Council have demonstrated gigantic incompetence with this shambles but that would be far too kind.


15 Aug 12 - 10:19 AM (#3390454)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

Just read the list of performers, the two sea music names i see are Monkeys Fist and Possibly Dan Spooner, that is if dan spooner is Danny Spooner, quite a catch. Dunno if Monkeys Fist were aware of the situation but I know I would have found it impossible to take up any invitation to play but that is the trade unionist coming out in me! I am away in sunny cumbria but I wouldn't mind meeting up with Danny Spooner again if it is one and the same person.


15 Aug 12 - 10:28 AM (#3390459)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

For what it is worth I was in Scarborough for the "Seafest" and had my ears bent in one former venue, where is the singing, where are the Shanties? It was hard to tell who was where for what but it was evident that a lot of people had gone into the pubs expecting the same show as previous years and were miffed that their holiday had been spoilt.


15 Aug 12 - 02:56 PM (#3390592)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham

I'm not going to W till midweek so I'm off to have a quick shufty at the 'Maritime' bits, if any. From what I've seen in the press they've managed to get Syntan, Amy and Comrade to come down. I don't know which other boats will be there. I'd also be interested to find out if they've given the boats any money for fuel, as we were planning to.

What I can't understand is they seem to be running these arty/acoustic festivals every other week now in the old town with all the usual local artists. Nothing wrong with that but why destroy a very successful international festival to fund yet another arty festival?


15 Aug 12 - 03:14 PM (#3390602)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Jane of 'ull

'just because someone plays an acoustic guitar does not mean they are FOLK.' Good point.


16 Aug 12 - 06:46 AM (#3390833)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: mally

I'm going down meself friday and sat to have a shufty. If theres enough of us of the same mind we could do our own thing.

    Mally


16 Aug 12 - 07:03 AM (#3390840)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Les from Hull

We're not going to Whitby 'til Sunday so we might see something.


16 Aug 12 - 10:58 AM (#3390915)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: mally

I have just been on www.hullfolkfestival.com which appears to be somewhat updated. Sorry don't do the blue clicky thing.

    Mally


16 Aug 12 - 07:02 PM (#3391123)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: JayneyOffTheRoad

Is there anything that can be done to turn this around? Its really sad that its been taken out of the hands of the original organisers....From what I can see this years fest looks like it been cobbled together with not much thought to what the festival actually is. Your threads says it all there is hardly any shanty in this fest - there is a lot of local acts that are possibly doing it for free and a few beers but thats it... i am a music promoter but it looks like this city is utilising all the same local acts it usually books. Great talent but It ain't shanty??


17 Aug 12 - 04:36 AM (#3391267)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Jane of 'ull

Last year, because the council pulled most of the funding, people got together and did their own thing, resulting in a smaller version of the usual shanty festival. But this year someone has organised this gig on the same weekend as Whitby folk festival, which is a bit stupid to say tha least. Not only are most of the potential acts at Whitby, but a lot of the audience will be too!


17 Aug 12 - 07:52 AM (#3391320)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Jane of 'ull

Will there be any sessions happening in the Old Town on Sunday? Such as the Black Boy, or will everyone be at Whitby?


17 Aug 12 - 09:32 AM (#3391339)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Paul Davenport

Having given support last year and then seen the appalling way in which the team (Mick, Pete, Les etc,) from last year have been treated, I for one intend to be as far away from Hull this weekend as possible. The last thing I would contemplate is being in any singaround or similar that could be claimed by the organisers to be 'all their own work'.


17 Aug 12 - 09:33 AM (#3391340)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST

Or indeed on Saturday? (tomorrow). I'll be around the area so thought I'd have a look..(I'm not going to Whitby).


17 Aug 12 - 10:19 AM (#3391355)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: nboldock

I'd also be interested to know if there are any seshes going on this weekend, though strictly as a spectator for me!


17 Aug 12 - 01:18 PM (#3391435)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Paul Davenport

In typical Mudcat fashion, as we get to the bottom of the thread we seem to have lost the point about why the thread started in the first place.


17 Aug 12 - 01:40 PM (#3391446)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: nboldock

Sort of... people are asking if there are any sessions going on at the same time as the Festival, but independent of it. Just about relevant.


17 Aug 12 - 03:18 PM (#3391473)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Paul Davenport

Politicians don't do 'independent of it' they claim everything that happens around their event as being proof that they were right! I can't credit the naivety.


17 Aug 12 - 03:33 PM (#3391478)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: nboldock

I know what you mean, Paul, to be honest.


25 Aug 12 - 03:42 AM (#3394783)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

so what happened then, are the council officers and local politicians slapping themselves on the back and saying "we done it" or are they claiming, like scarborough have done with Apollo leisure, that the events company sub contracted to run the event have made a mess of things? It is becoming more apparent that these sort of arrangements are to ensure the shit doesn't stick and jeopardise the local councillors electability and reap the electoral rewards of success. God, politics don't you just hate it..............................I can see it now......the conversation twixt politician and political statistician/adviser...."er if I say something that appeals to rapists and homophobics will it lose me more votes that it gets me"..."hell no sir you have already pissed the women off with with your stance on abortion, you pissed the homos of when you voted against gay marriage, it has to be a vote winner"....."er, what about the decent upstanding people?"..."maybe we come from the angle that rape in marriage is ok because that's what the wives sign up for, right?.......and if you have spent a pile of money on a date, then you've paid for it so technically it isn't rape'...."can I really run with that.....better work on a redaction speech just in case it goes tits up"..."better still, endorse a group that promotes the values we think will get us votes and if the shit hits the fan we can deny any knowledge of these policies and sack an intern for signing you up to it........a teflon strategy!"


25 Aug 12 - 03:48 AM (#3394784)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

Oh and I know this isn't music and thread creep and all, but when a party loses an election they blame it on their political advisers and strategy not their policies, you know what, they are right, the mass of the voting public are nieve and are pulled around by the rings in their noses


25 Aug 12 - 04:25 AM (#3394787)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: The Maverick

I was there, but didn't hear any folk music!


25 Aug 12 - 12:03 PM (#3394927)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Jane of 'ull

Hmmm..I didn't go to the festival in the end, so can't comment.


25 Aug 12 - 12:15 PM (#3394930)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Paul Davenport

Perhaps last years organisers could set up 'Hull and East Riding Traditions Festival Inc.' and tender for running a proper event next year? Looks like that's how its done, but the difference being that they have proven track record and expertise.


25 Aug 12 - 04:26 PM (#3395052)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: The Maverick

Leila??


25 Aug 12 - 08:35 PM (#3395152)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GeoffLawes

The Maverick said -I was there, but didn't hear any folk music!

I have just got back from Whitby Folk Week and was hoping to get a bit of insight in to what happened. My main concern with the replacement festival was whether participation,a distinguishing feature of the old festival and of our musical genre, would feature at all. When I looked at the festival website it appeared that most of the booked performers were amplified bands and this suggested that the organisers envisaged a passive, spectator role for those attending. What happened at the former pub singaround venues? They had previously thrived on the former festival's successful formula of audience performers supplemented with booked guests who dropped in for short performance spots. Did Ralph McTell get down to the Minerva at all? If there were any singarounds - how successful were they? Up at Whitby, I saw a lot of the people who had attended the old festival's singarounds so who was left behind to participate? The weather was good therefore the crowds should have been out- did that happen? What did other attendees think about what happened?


26 Aug 12 - 10:43 AM (#3395391)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham

I saw a bit of nice music played by a local band called 'Beggar's Bridge' who I don't know. They were playing in a tent on the marina side. There were the 3 core boats there, Amy, Comrade and Syntan but no others. With a lot of cajolling they managed to get the council to let visitors go aboard late on Saturday afternoon. I had a quick chat with one of the shanty group from Leeds and they were off home at tea time having not even performed on the main concert. I was there most of Saturday afternoon and the crowds were only a fraction of previous years. You could easily walk down the marina with arms outstretched and not touch anybody: Impossible in previous years. It was only Friday and Saturday. Sunday there were many crowds but that was for the cycling event which passed down Humber Street. I sat in Thieving Harry's on the Sunday with the Amy crew and they were not impressed to say the least.

Needless to say I will be bending Terry Gerraghty's ear at the earliest opportunity.


26 Aug 12 - 11:46 AM (#3395417)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GeoffLawes

Thanks for that Steve - Beggar's Bridge features the wonderful singer Sam Martyn and she does have a great voice- If you want to hear her again she sings regularly at Beverley's Not the White Horse Folk Club when the club is in session. She is also doing a gig on September 24th.
http://www.whfolk.co.uk/diary


Did anyone else go to the festival? What about the singaround sessions at the Minerva or other venues if there were any? If the only shanty group did not feature on the main stage it sounds like the maritime song element did not get much of a hearing.


26 Aug 12 - 05:05 PM (#3395548)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Willa

See the thread titled Folk & Roots event at Hessle Town Hall-8 Sept
The event includes Beggars Bridge and Hase Waits, both very good.


26 Aug 12 - 06:08 PM (#3395580)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: mally

Beggar's Bridge are also appearing at The Grafton pub grafton St. Newland Ave this Tues Steve.

       Mally


27 Aug 12 - 09:37 AM (#3395888)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Les from Hull

There were no singarounds in Minerva or Ruscadors, only poorly attended open mikes when I looked in. Having selected the worst possible days to hold this event, there wouldn't have been many singers anyway. Having rejected, or not sought, the advice of anyone with any local knowledge of maritime or folk events, this event was always doomed.


27 Aug 12 - 08:39 PM (#3396171)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey

Whilst agreeing with Paul Davenport's posting of 25th to a certain extent and also noting Steve Gardham's idea of bending the ear of a selectively deaf politician the following thought struck me.

Would it not be better if there are sufficient people willing to have a go to ignore the commercial and political interests and get together to put on a real shanty and maritime event at a more suitable date(s)?

I'm willing to put in my twopennorth in my native city. It might have to start relatively small but I am sure, given the right mix, it could quickly grow.

So what about the Hull Shanty & Maritime Festival 2013?


28 Aug 12 - 04:02 AM (#3396276)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

With Ron working out of the country for most of the year and his family requiring to see something of him it is notoriously difficult for us to get anywhere but given enough notice and it's not around academic holiday time then we would love to contribute.


28 Aug 12 - 05:00 AM (#3396290)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: nutty

I'm sure all those people who helped to support the Ellesmere Port Event would be more than willing to assist - although I would like to see an East Coast Maritime event which could encompass a larger area,


28 Aug 12 - 11:56 AM (#3396478)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham

What had you in mind, Hazel?


28 Aug 12 - 04:27 PM (#3396643)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: nutty

If the council are unlikely to give support then there are two choices -

either -
keep the event small as the previous event

or -
find another venue along the coast where the community would welcome and support such an event.


28 Aug 12 - 06:49 PM (#3396686)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham

Hazel,
I hear whispers that the old crew are getting together to see what can be done in Hull. Probably at the next Shanty UK meet in Goole sometime in October. Keep fingers crossed.


29 Aug 12 - 03:53 AM (#3396847)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: stallion

what date in october?


29 Aug 12 - 02:03 PM (#3397116)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: mally

I went down to have a shufty on Fri. and sat.
Fri.I started at the Minerva which was practically empty then went into the music room and doubled the audience and listened to anything but folk songs, after which the other half of the audience got up and played an harmonica so I went back to bar.Monkeys Fist turned up later, who I   thoroughly enjoyed.I have never known the Minerva be so depressing.The staff where fed up, the management pissed off so I pissedoff and walked the empty streets to Greenbricks. This was not much better, there was an accordion band playing there, but the dozen or so customers weren't very interested,credit due to them, they played a couple of shanty tunes.The night then continued with open mike sessions but still no folk music.
Never mind I thought things can only get better there's still Ruscadors.Well I couldn't have more wrong.Either the artists were taking a very long break or had taken the night off there was nothing.The manager was optimistic though saying it should be better tomorrow,he then showed me the posters he had been given to put up which read 'HULL FOLK FESTIVAL FRI.18th AUG and SAT. 18th AUG.' Oh dear can't they get any thing right? Went back to the Minerva (10-45) the music was finish and the pub closing so went home a little dischuffed.         

Went down Sat. but it appeared to be like any other day apart from a few stalls including one trying to get me to join the navy and one which would paint a smile on my face. Two or three boats where there but one of the owners was not very pleased that he had only been given 4weeks notice. There was a main stage that was quite well attended but I didn't hear any folk or maritime stuff. The "Greenbricks" apeared to have taken the day off from music so I thought I'd try the "minerva". There was some music there but still it was not folk or maritime stuff. Since there was more people outside than in I decided to join Les outside for a natter then I decided to try the "greenbricks" but still nothing. By this time it was 5-45ish and everything was packing up.Yet again I thought there's still "Ruscadors".Then BINGO! "Colleen's Fancy" came on and sang some REAL SONGS.At this point I decided to end on a ROLL and take the long walk home knowing that tomorrow I had a party to go to because my local pub was closing.

In a nut shell;
The dates were not known until end of May. Then he had the stupidity to set them for when all the folkies where in Whitby.

There was no publicity, so no one knew it even existed.

For them that did get there, there where on programes so one knew who was on and where.

All the artists where plugged in and staged.
There where no rhythm and booze sessions or the like, where people could do their own thing or just listen. these could have been put in the programe if there was one?

I think a complete audit should be done to find out exactly what the thousands of pounds of the rate payers money was a spent on by this person who in my opinion couldn't even run a bath or a pissup in his own brewery let alone a folk festival.

    Mally


29 Aug 12 - 06:38 PM (#3397245)
Subject: RE: Hull Shanty Festival 2012
From: Steve Gardham

Not fixed yet, but as soon as it is it'll be plastered all over here.

Very subtle, Mally. I like your style.