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Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?

10 Feb 09 - 02:14 PM (#2562984)
Subject: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: GUEST,Jimmy Bomba

Does Phil Ochs' Draft Dodger Rag really qualify as a "rag" from a musical standpoint, or is just the name of the song?


10 Feb 09 - 02:34 PM (#2563000)
Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: Will Fly

Depends what your definition of "rag" is. Classic ragtime - a la Scott Jolin and others - employs a classical thematic format. Typically: A-A-B-B-A-C-C-D-D. The Maple Leaf is a fine example.

In the folk & blues world, "rag" can be anything the composer wants it to be. "Rag, Mama, Rag" is a typical example from the band; "Rag Mama Blues" is (I think) a Blind Blake offering (someone will correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm sure!). "Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-To-die-Rag" is an offering from Country Joe - but based largely on the old jazz standard "Muskrat Ramble"...

Depends on how severe you want to be with the definition!


10 Feb 09 - 02:34 PM (#2563001)
Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: Will Fly

"Jolin", of course, is "Joplin" - just typing!


10 Feb 09 - 03:49 PM (#2563070)
Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: Rafflesbear

Listen to it on YouTube and you'll hear everything from Rag to Ballad

I think this one is up at the Raggy end of the scale but then I'm not technical on these things

Draft Dodger Rag


10 Feb 09 - 04:28 PM (#2563119)
Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle

Will Fly - nailed it precisely.

It is NOT ragtime in the traditional sense. I would consider it a burlesque honky tonk...in the protest ballad style genre of "I gotta letter from LJB"

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


10 Feb 09 - 04:30 PM (#2563120)
Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle

Why do you ask GUEST,Jammy Bomba??

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


10 Feb 09 - 05:50 PM (#2563209)
Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: GUEST,Gerry

A letter from LJB? Hmm, that must have been the one by Tom Patxon.


10 Feb 09 - 05:56 PM (#2563215)
Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: GUEST,Jimmy Bomba

I am not the most musically knowledgeable person. I just found myself wondering...

I got a letter from LJB(sic) that would be "Lyndon Johnson Told the nation" by Tom Paxton.

thanks all

Jimmy.


11 Feb 09 - 12:30 AM (#2563476)
Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: M.Ted

It is a pretty standard ragtime tune--not the usual subject matter, but a solid ragtime tune, nonetheless.

Back in college, a close friend and music companion was offered the job of tenor banjoist in the house "ragtime band" at a Shakey's Pizza because the piano player had heard him play two songs, one of which was "Draft Dodger Rag", the other being "Alice's Restaurant". He didn't even have a tenor banjo--it payed scale--


11 Feb 09 - 07:00 PM (#2564414)
Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: Rog Peek

Tom did a more recent version "George W Told The Nation."
You can listen to it here


Rog


11 Feb 09 - 09:47 PM (#2564539)
Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle

Well, Susan and Dick

Your efforts paved a hiway through the wilderness

But just as... ORAL Tradition-
.........................Gave way to... WRITTEN Tradition -
....................................................Gave way to... Digital Traditional

It appears that we have arrived at a new tradition of corrupted video and sound compression through YouTube's flash media Tradition.

Not to say, the web-world would NOT have arrived where we are today, but (Dick and Susan) your original notebook contributions certainly extended the folkworld hiway into cyberspace at a more rapid pace.

THANK YOU

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

This thread a good example of the transition.


12 Feb 09 - 12:54 AM (#2564618)
Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: Amos

It is not ragtime, which is a particular kind of syncopated rhythm made remowned by Joplin, but it is a rag, which is a much more general term meaning a song with a certain kind of sloppy spirit behind it.


A


12 Feb 09 - 03:39 AM (#2564671)
Subject: RE: Draft Dodger Rag: ragtime or not?
From: Will Fly

There's a common assumption that a "rag" is a tune with a ragged rhythm - a perfectly logical assumption. However, there's also a theory that "ragtime" (from which "rag" derives) refers, not to the rhythm of the tune but the fact that it was used as dance music. The dancers would get dressed up in their best clothes - their "rags" for the function. There's the related phrase "glad rags" - meaning your best clothes.

There was an interesting interview with Jean Ritchie on the recent Folk America series on UK TV, where Jean was describing the New Yorkers going to square dances dressed in blue jeans, checked shirts, etc. - thinking it be authentic to dress that way. The reality being that true country people used such an occasion to get dressed up to the nines - in their "glad rags" (though Jean never used that particular phrase).

Just an alternative thought...