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BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure

jimlad9 10 Mar 07 - 04:50 AM
Jean(eanjay) 10 Mar 07 - 04:58 AM
alanabit 10 Mar 07 - 05:33 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 10 Mar 07 - 06:28 AM
alanabit 10 Mar 07 - 06:37 AM
jacqui.c 10 Mar 07 - 07:57 AM
Chris Green 10 Mar 07 - 08:02 AM
Bill D 10 Mar 07 - 02:28 PM
Peace 10 Mar 07 - 02:55 PM
wysiwyg 10 Mar 07 - 02:58 PM
bobad 10 Mar 07 - 03:07 PM
Peace 10 Mar 07 - 03:08 PM
bobad 10 Mar 07 - 03:11 PM
Bert 10 Mar 07 - 04:58 PM
Bill D 10 Mar 07 - 07:24 PM
open mike 11 Mar 07 - 03:03 AM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Mar 07 - 06:14 PM
bubblyrat 12 Mar 07 - 03:02 PM
GUEST, Ebbie 12 Mar 07 - 03:45 PM
Wesley S 12 Mar 07 - 04:18 PM
folk1e 12 Mar 07 - 06:37 PM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Mar 07 - 07:09 PM
GUEST,folk1e 12 Mar 07 - 09:16 PM
Sorcha 12 Mar 07 - 09:34 PM
jimlad9 13 Mar 07 - 03:41 AM
Green Man 13 Mar 07 - 08:48 AM
Scrump 13 Mar 07 - 09:01 AM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Mar 07 - 09:32 AM
Scrump 13 Mar 07 - 10:01 AM
jeffp 13 Mar 07 - 12:22 PM
Sorcha 13 Mar 07 - 03:44 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Mar 07 - 05:45 PM
Scrump 14 Mar 07 - 05:14 AM
folk1e 14 Mar 07 - 07:49 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 15 Mar 07 - 09:23 AM
Jean(eanjay) 15 Mar 07 - 10:35 AM
skipy 15 Mar 07 - 10:57 AM
Scrump 15 Mar 07 - 11:43 AM
Jean(eanjay) 15 Mar 07 - 03:25 PM
Sorcha 15 Mar 07 - 04:07 PM
Ebbie 15 Mar 07 - 11:47 PM
folk1e 16 Mar 07 - 03:30 AM
Scrump 16 Mar 07 - 09:39 AM
Donuel 16 Mar 07 - 10:00 AM
Ebbie 16 Mar 07 - 10:43 AM
Scrump 16 Mar 07 - 12:06 PM
Ebbie 16 Mar 07 - 12:09 PM
The Walrus 16 Mar 07 - 12:28 PM
Jean(eanjay) 16 Mar 07 - 12:34 PM
The Walrus 16 Mar 07 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,meself 17 Mar 07 - 09:37 AM
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Subject: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: jimlad9
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 04:50 AM

Reports in the UK press recently reported that the Senior British Judge, Lord Phillips is saying that unless we rethink our convicted wrongdoers sentencing strategy we will end up with prisons overflowing with Geriatric Lifers.
The solution is so simple to me,where a crime justifies a life sentence,Murder,Rape,Offences against Children et al,let us hang the buggers!.
No geriatric lifers,saves money for social causes,reduces the need for new prison building and so on.
It would also put a new meaning of a suspended sentence!.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 04:58 AM

I'm against capital punishment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: alanabit
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 05:33 AM

I am always a little puzzled when people, who value justice, decency and care for those who need it, feel that the most economical solution to a problem is necessarily the best.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 06:28 AM

I know! Let's forgive them, congratulate them on their initiative and give them a medal! If they've made any money from their murdering perhaps we can give them a British Award for Industry ... or even a knighthood.

Then let's punish the grieving relatives for being a nuisance. Trouble is, I'm not sure what to do with them. If we throw them into jail we'll only be contributing to prison overcrowding. Hmmm, difficult - I suppose we could always hang them ...?

Anyway, after we've sorted that out we can all go completely mad and stand on our heads and shout, "beeble, beeble, beeble, beeble, bum, bum!!!!".


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: alanabit
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 06:37 AM

OK - I give in. Bring back the lash, the cane, the birch, the gallows, the axe and the garotte for the particularly bad ones. Maybe we could even call over some of those "discipline" guys from Saudi Arabia to perform a few stonings and mutilations for us. Punish and thrash the bounders hard enough and we could make our country civilised again...


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: jacqui.c
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 07:57 AM

Part of the idea of incarceration should be to protect the public from predators.

Maybe we should be looking at a suggestion made on the Mudcat government thread of making criminals pay full reparation to their victims, which might just go to show some that crime really doesn't pay, particularly if they get that lesson at an early age. If they were taught a skill at the same time some of them might just end up as useful members of sosciety.


The really dangerous ones, serial killers, child molesters, rapists and the like really do need, IMHO, to be put away for life, to make sure that they can't hurt anyone else. There have been too many cases of these people, particularly child molesters and rapists, being set free, only to go on to more serious crimes. I must say that, for murder, where there is no doubt of the guilt of the person, I would tend to be thinking of execution so that there was no chance of that person being let out under a more liberal regime at some point in the future, but that is an argument that just goes round and round with not a lot of movement amongst those for and against.

Maybe we should be making prison more draconian, less a 'hazard of the job' as some criminals seem to think of it. While some may be capable of changing as a result of their loss of freedom it seems that others just find it an opportunity to hone their skills from more experienced inmates.

There are always going to be those who will prey on others. Whether it is nature or nuture can be discussed until doomsday but the fact is that they are there and must be dealt with. I find it interesting that, at a time when there does seem to be a more liberal attitude to wrongdoers, with softer conditions in prisons than was the case for prior generations, that our prisons are full to overflowing. Anybody care to look at the correlation there?


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Chris Green
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 08:02 AM

I saw the title and thought you were talking about
these lot. Seems a pretty accurate description to me! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 02:28 PM

Well, I so see Jimlads' point, since as population grows and urban tensions increase as ethnic problems keep growing, we WILL have more & more individuals sentenced to long prison terms. It is a serious question how fast we will have to build more prisons and pay for them...and find competent people to man them (competing with regular police depts. for personell.)

I am as in favor of "... justice, decency and care for those who need it," as the next guy...in theory, anyway. I, frankly, have no idea what to do with rows of cells filled with the worst dregs of society....men (mostly) who now have a hobby of trying to kill OTHER men in competing prison gangs, or guards, if they can manage.....and who continue to participate in and run illegal crime from their prison cells!

A lot of the current practices for dealing with crime, sentencing and prison are akin to defining what the solution should be before determining what the problem is! Having a fair, honest, humane, concerned prison system is an admirable goal...but it 'may' be a luxury we can't afford forever.

   We can either figure out how to make society better, so that fewer people are sent to prison, or we can keep struggling with more & more prisons with higher costs and even less ability to do any rehabilitation.

Yes, I know ALL the arguments against capital punishment, and even agree with some of them...but I'm afraid pragmatism may trump idealism one of these days.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Peace
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 02:55 PM

The problem is a simple one really. The solution is somewhat more difficult. I suggest that these people be frozen--cryogenically. Thaw them only for their parole hearings. If parole is granted, they stay yhawed. If it is denied, it's back to the chamber. Thousands can be kept in a single facility. Maybe just guard the doors so no one can be busted out for a party or reunion. The cost will be electricity, but that's minor compared to the cost of feeding and guarding and maintaining buildings, etc.

The other option is to dry them out and simply stack them in wooden boxes. They can be reconstituted on parole-hearing days, etc. The drying method would likely be even cheaper than cryogenics. Having seen jimlad9's thread about Camilla, I think that's all I have to add here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 02:58 PM

So euthansia for the elderly is going to be piloted in prisons, to see who gets snarky about it?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: bobad
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 03:07 PM

Ship 'em off to Austalia, sez I.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Peace
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 03:08 PM

Frozen or dried?


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: bobad
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 03:11 PM

And here's the Arrr I forgot in Australia, mateys.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Bert
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 04:58 PM

Let's remove all the fake political crimes like drug taking and the prisons would be empty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 07:24 PM

ummm, no, Bert...I don't think so. There are people killing other people for the PRIVILEGE of selling those drugs....

You may want drugs easier to obtain, but I don't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: open mike
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 03:03 AM

I thought you said geriatric lifters


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Mar 07 - 06:14 PM

Talking about bringing back capital punishment in the UK is pointless. It couldn't be done without leaving the European Union, and that ain't going to happen.

On balance I'd have thought that it'd be easier running jails full of frail old men, anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: bubblyrat
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 03:02 PM

Every day, our soldiers ( US and British ) are dying in Afghanistan and Iraq, yet we are squeamish about killing multiple murderers and child -killers !! We are prepared to let young children watch films & TV programmes featuring the most appalling scenes of violence ,carnage ,mutilation & mass murder, yet teach them that capital punishment is "wrong" & "uncivilised " !! How hypocritical is that ?? People like The Yorkshire Ripper?--Rose West??--Ian Huntley ?? IN THE NAME OF GOD --what right do these people have to human life ?? NO !! Bring back Capital Punishment, and if you want a Hangman, put my name down on the list ---PLEASE !!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: GUEST, Ebbie
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 03:45 PM

Yes! Let's go back to the good old days when a hungry nine-year-old could be hanged for stealing a loaf of bread. And let's invite the community to bring picnic lunches and make a day of it.

Let's hear it for community spirit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 04:18 PM

First - Go see the Hitchcock movie called "The Wrong Man". It stars Henry Fonda. Then come back and tell us what you think.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: folk1e
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 06:37 PM

I have been thinking about this for quite a while now (off and on)!
There are 4 basic elements to the penal system :-
1 Deterant, to anybody who may commit a similar offence.
2 Prevention, to phisicaly prevent the perpitrator from re-offending
3 Punishment, to the perpitrator to prevent them committing another offence.
4 Retribution, against the perpitrator to make the victim(s) feel better.
It seems to me that Prison is not much of a deterant to anybody! The length of prison sentances served seems to be going down, so element 2 is less effective. The level of reoffending is incredibly high 75 - 80%, so element 3 is out. This leaves us with element 4, I do not think I need to elaborate on this one!
My solution, for what it is worth is if the prisons were set out into 4 different levels, each with a differing level of punishment, ballanced with incentives for "Good Behaviour".
Level 4 is hard labour with no privalidges. Morning till night.
Level 3 is Hard Work 50 hr week Monthly visits and phone calls on sunday.
Level 2 is Educational access and work skills. Normal privalidges.
Level 1 is Educational access and work skills. Access to internet, outside visits, Activities outside prison for work. Weekends at "home"
Introduction to job vacancies outside prison.Freedom to earn and spend "own money".
Dependant on the crime committed Criminal starts off in level 2 or 3. they then move up or down dependant on their own behaviour whilst in prison! This would fulfill all 4 elements of the penal system. It is far from perfect and would be open to abuse (as is the present system) but would be far more effective. As to the "geriatric Lifers" if that is what they want then fine by me!
Rant over!


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 07:09 PM

We are prepared to let young children watch films & TV programmes featuring the most appalling scenes of violence ,carnage ,mutilation & mass murder, yet teach them that capital punishment is "wrong" & "uncivilised " !! How hypocritical is that ??

That's a stick that points both ways. Stopping exposing our kids to that kind of crap on TV might be a more straightforward way of avoiding laying ourselves open to the charge of hypocrisy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: GUEST,folk1e
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 09:16 PM

The problem is that we do NOT see the true results of violence! People get shot and "die" but you don't see the reality of the wounds or the aftermath!


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 09:34 PM

I think folk1e might have it.... capital punishment is NOT a deterrent. It only stops that particular person from doing it again. IF it WAS that person.... take a look at the new DNA scans/tests from old crimes.

If we 'get' them when they are young enough (given that they are not a sociopath or psychopath), make the NON-jail punishment difficult enough, they just might think twice about doing it again.

Now, jail.... a 'free' home out of the weather, meals, some medical services, laundry service, TV and exercise privileges, work release or a minimal job in the jail, conjugal visits, you know, some days, that seems like Heaven to ME!

I have also known and spoken with persons of the 'institutionalized mind set'.... many of them have said, 'yes, I did (what ever) just so I could be put back in Prison. It's the ONLY life I know and can cope with. It provides for my basic needs, and if I get out, I will do something so I can just get back in again. No real responsibilities there.'


Some offenses should be 'de criminalized' and no jail time. We can't just keep stuffing everybody in jail all the time. Marijuana is hardly a 'criminal offense'. How many of us Mudcatters have partaken of it???? Be honest, at least with yourself.

Neither is soliciting for prostitution, but the Ladies of the Night DO need help. Jail for them won't help much.

Ask any parent--effective consequences are what works. With sociopath and psychopaths, nothing works. They are wired wrong but they are also in the extreme minority right now.

Keep populating the planet at a Mega Rate and they may not be. The more individuals that are crammed into a limited space, the more 'deviant' behaviors are statistically increased per unit of population.

There are NO easy answers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: jimlad9
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 03:41 AM

Those were the good old cays eh?. In the early 18th century there were 202 crimes that could attract the death sentence including 'Walking like an Italian''.*

*From Peter Ackroyds 'London'


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Green Man
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 08:48 AM

You forgot the 'Geriatric' Judge who coined the phrase in the first place. He is in the job for life, so he is the archetypal 'Geriatric Lifer'.

Too many old geezers running the country. Not enough women in parliament and too many vested interests.

GM


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 09:01 AM

One possibility not mentioned (sorry if I missed it) was to introduce voluntary capital punishment. OK, you might not get many volunteers, but there may be some who would rather be put out of their misery than contemplate a life behind bars. And there may be a few that actually feel guilty for murdering someone else.

These people could be put down by injections, as dogs and cats are. There's no need for re-introducing the barbaric spectacle of hanging.

But the short (or non-existent) prison sentences must be encouraging criminals to commit crimes. If you know you are unlikely to get much of a sentence, or just do a bit of community service, then it's hardly a deterrent. In the short term more jails are needed, to allow proper sentences that reflect the severity of the crime, to be imposed. Eventually, I hope the deterrent effect would cause fewer crimes to be committed in the first place, and then some of these jails could be closed, or converted into luxury yuppie flats and sold off, or whatever.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 09:32 AM

Eventually, I hope the deterrent effect would cause fewer crimes to be committed in the first place

There's no evidence whatsoever that it works that way. It seems to to be that high rates for jailing people and high rates for violent crime in a society go along with each other.

If you don't think you are going to get caught the penalties you would face if you were caught just aren't relevant. Once you do get caught and jailed you're in an environment that makes it more likely that you are going to get "re-educated" by that very environment to reoffend.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 10:01 AM

Point taken, McGrath. But part of the problem is that jails are badly run, because:

- they allow inmates to have contact with one another in uncontrolled conditions, so they are able to "re-educate" each other in crime and learn how to commit other crimes while in jail.

- the regime in jail is too soft and needs to be toughened up so that the thought of 'doing time' is a deterrent. The only obligation we have to criminals is to keep them humanely and feed them a proper nutritionally balanced diet.

I still believe that a harsher regime with longer sentences would help deter some crimes from being committed. The laughably short sentences handed out these days for serious offences is no deterrent at all.

The reason for jail overcrowding is that more crimes have been committed, partly because of this lack of deterrent. Detection rates probably haven't improved as a percentage, but because more crimes are committed, the numbers of criminals convicted has risen (the government will no doubt use this as spurious "evidence" that they have "cracked down" on crime, the causes of crime, etc.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: jeffp
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 12:22 PM

It seems to to be that high rates for jailing people and high rates for violent crime in a society go along with each other.

It stands to reason that a high crime rate would lead to a high incarceration rate, if the authorities are at all competent at catching criminals.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 03:44 PM

Scrump, all that will do is create PISSED OFF criminals who are even meaner when they get out. Among other problems that I can see with it are the gaurds will also become less civilized/human, there is NO way to put every inmate in isolation, and no way to stop all communication between inmates.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 05:45 PM

Unless you get rid of the factors causing the crimes in the first place locking up criminals just creates vacancies in the crime business. One lot of drug dealers is jailed, another bunch steps up and takes over. It's an aspect of a free market system.

If people don't think they are going to get caught, getting caught is not a deterrent. The same is true if they think they are going to get banged up whether they do anything or not, which is more or less where it is for a lot of people in some places.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 05:14 AM

Scrump, all that will do is create PISSED OFF criminals who are even meaner when they get out. Among other problems that I can see with it are the gaurds will also become less civilized/human, there is NO way to put every inmate in isolation, and no way to stop all communication between inmates.

Sorcha, I wasn't suggesting that all criminals should be kept in solitary confinement all the time (except as now, for 'bad behaviour' in jail). I said they allow inmates to have contact with one another in uncontrolled conditions, so they are able to "re-educate" each other in crime and learn how to commit other crimes while in jail

In other words, their contact with one another should be limited to times when they can be observed by prison staff, to reduce the opportunities for them to 'cross-corrupt' one another. That would mean them sleeping in separate rooms. Is that so bad? Anyone travelling on business has to sleep in a hotel room on their own.

Apart from me, the general view here seems to be that jail won't be a deterrent to crime. I believe it would be if the sentences were longer and tougher, as they used to be before the 'do-gooders' had their way. Of course, you have to catch them first, and we need more police to do that. I'm not saying toughening up the jail regime would work on its own - it has to part of a wider improvement in the way we deal with crime - more police, more jails, tougher sentences.

Yes, it would be good if we could rehabilitate all criminals and prevent them all re-offending, but the first priority is to clean up the streets and protect the public. The public's interests should, IMO, come first, not the criminals', which seems to be the priority these days.

Mumble, grumble, bah, humbug... (fade)


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: folk1e
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 07:49 PM

Another problem is the lag time between the crime and the sentance! How many times do we hear about a case having to concider umpteen similar offences?
Catch em. do it quick (LOL) and bang em up quick as well.
The "punnishment" needs to be effective as well as a good rehabilitation regime. We do not appear to do either!


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 09:23 AM

It really does appear that the Law in this country (UK) has gone completely bonkers. Apparently several men who were wrongly convicted of crimes in the 1970s, including those wrongly accused of murdering the newspaper boy, Carl Bridgewater, are to be required to pay for their 'board and lodgings' (ie. the 'bill' that they ran up whilst languishing in prison). This is to be deducted from the compensation money that they received on their release. It appears that they appealed against this absurd travesty of justice but four 'Law Lords' have now rejected their appeal ('The Independent', 15.03.2007).

I have long suspected that, in the last few decades, the 'forces of law'n'order' in this country have so hamstrung themselves over dealing with criminals that it is now too difficult, so they punish the innocent instead!


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 10:35 AM

Guest, Shimrod - I was appalled by this as well.

The only thing that did cross my mind was that it is possible that extra compensation was given specifically to pay these "costs" that they would have. In that event they will not have lost any money because that would have been paid in addition to the other compensation (it seems to be how the system works). In any event it still seems ludicrous. You can understand them appealing as a matter of principle if nothing else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: skipy
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 10:57 AM

The cure where a really crap band, but I did not know that you could get life for crimes against music, it's not a bad idea though on reflection.
Skipy


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 11:43 AM

I think that the best deterrent to crime would be to charge all convicted criminals with all costs associated with their crime, including the costs of:

- police time and resources for investigation, detection, and arrest
- property damaged or stolen during the crime
- legal costs
- compensation to victims of the crime
- costs of 'accommodation' and subsistence in Her Majesty's 'hotels'

I'm pretty sure the thought of being hit in the pocket would deter even the most hardened criminal. Money talks to them as well as anyone else!

If the criminal is unable to afford it, their personal property (if they have any - cars, TV, etc. - could be removed and sold); or they would pay it back in instalments on release, from their benefits if necessary.

If students have to pay for their education, why shouldn't criminals pay for their crimes, financially?


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 03:25 PM

I think it's difficult enough collecting fines in a lot of cases so I'm not sure how easy your suggestion would be to actually do, Scrump. Sometimes it's all just a vicious circle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 04:07 PM

Sometimes, esp in drug cases, that really does happen!


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 11:47 PM

On balance I'd have thought that it'd be easier running jails full of frail old men, anyway. McGrath, March 11 6:14

I watched a documentary the other night that dealt with lifers. They mentioned that caring for elderly and old people is three times more expensive.

They reported on one very interesting development: They built and are running at least one prison for old prisoners only. Some young(er) prisoners were the ones who were responsible for the care and nurturing of the old ones.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: folk1e
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 03:30 AM

The U.K. law is probably the oldest and most archaic set of conflicting rules in the world! Is it any wonder that when some changes are forced on it problems arrise?
Maybe it is time to look at the "rules" and change them round a bit!
I find it incredible that nobody can tell if taking a certain set of actions is legal or not untill afterward. If I consume a couple of pints of beer and drive home nobody knows weather I am over the limit until I provide the breath test into the big machine at the police station! Result, loss of driving licence and livelyhood! Similarly it would appear that video evidence of police officers "arresting" a woman at a nightclub by physically draging her (on the floor) down a flight of steps, lying on top of her and punching her at least 4 times with full force, is O.K. because that is how the police are trained! I repeat this is in the U.K.! Mixed messages or what?


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 09:39 AM

They built and are running at least one prison for old prisoners only. Some young(er) prisoners were the ones who were responsible for the care and nurturing of the old ones

I would have thought that "care and nurturing" are not among the strong points of most criminals. Doesn't caring for old folk require proper training?


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 10:00 AM

best to lease them to the Soylent Green Corporation.
At least there I hear they will be employed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 10:43 AM

I didn't say *most* criminals, Scrump. I said, some younger prisoners were doing it. I would imagine it would be the trustees or perhaps some who are close to release time, and perhaps it counts toward release.

All I know is that that the ones they showed were feeding a couple of old men, wiping their mouths gently, lifting them expertly and smoothly into bed at the end.

A gross generalization here: I would not be surprised to learn that on a personal level some hardened criminals are caring people. Check out the prison programs where the prisoners who qualify are given dogs to train and socialize.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Scrump
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 12:06 PM

Sorry Ebbie, you're probably right. A lot of criminals are indeed kind to those close to them, and only b******ds to others.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 12:09 PM

Kind of like the tribal dictum that one can lie only to one's enemies...


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: The Walrus
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 12:28 PM

For those who would have been Guaranteed an automatic trip through the trapdoor in earlier times*; for paedophiles and the like, I would suggest giving them the option early release, with only one condition.
I costs less to keep one long term prisoner on dialisis than two otherwise 'active' citizens, they'll only need one lung, others can use the corneas - BREAK THEM FOR SPARES!

(And after that suggestion - Now watch the feathers fly)

Walrus (in 'stirrer' mode)


* The type of case that would have the appeals court and Home Secretary laughing their socks off at the idea an appeal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 12:34 PM

I'm against barbarism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: The Walrus
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 12:37 PM

A serious suggestion, make prison sentences shorter, but re-introduce 'Hard Labour' and 'Rigourous Imprisonment'*.

On a lighter note, the alternative, for young offenders, is high fat, high salt, high carbohydrate foods, minimum exercise, minimum reading matter (just TV and video games) and turn them into 'couch potatoes'. At least that way, if they re-offend, they'll be easier to catch. ;-)

W


* Very basic food, everything carried out at 'the double', bags of 'bull' and 'beastings' - a bit like the characature of National Service basic training writ large (think of the film "The Hill", but without the desert climate


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Subject: RE: BS: Geriatric Lifers- The Cure
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 17 Mar 07 - 09:37 AM

Walrus - According to something I half-heard on the radio the other day, it sounds like this is being proposed seriously in North Carolina - if you were to "donate" a kidney or some such transplantable organ, your life-sentence would be reduced ... Anyone else heard about this?


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