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BS: Washington Anti-War Protest

bobad 27 Jan 07 - 06:52 PM
Amos 27 Jan 07 - 07:04 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 27 Jan 07 - 09:08 PM
GUEST,Scoville at Dad's 27 Jan 07 - 11:16 PM
GUEST,282RA 27 Jan 07 - 11:59 PM
GUEST,Scoville 28 Jan 07 - 12:12 AM
katlaughing 28 Jan 07 - 12:19 AM
Don Firth 28 Jan 07 - 12:30 AM
number 6 28 Jan 07 - 12:34 AM
dianavan 28 Jan 07 - 02:51 AM
GUEST,TIA 28 Jan 07 - 11:04 AM
Amos 28 Jan 07 - 11:42 AM
bobad 28 Jan 07 - 12:07 PM
Scoville 28 Jan 07 - 12:20 PM
Rapparee 28 Jan 07 - 12:26 PM
SINSULL 28 Jan 07 - 12:37 PM
Amos 28 Jan 07 - 12:42 PM
GUEST,282RA 28 Jan 07 - 12:56 PM
Don Firth 28 Jan 07 - 01:31 PM
GUEST,Frank Hamilton 28 Jan 07 - 02:52 PM
SINSULL 28 Jan 07 - 06:14 PM
Scoville 28 Jan 07 - 09:45 PM
GUEST,z 28 Jan 07 - 10:07 PM
Ebbie 28 Jan 07 - 10:31 PM
GUEST 29 Jan 07 - 12:06 AM
GUEST,TIA 29 Jan 07 - 12:57 AM
GUEST,MarkS 29 Jan 07 - 04:33 PM
GUEST,TIA 29 Jan 07 - 10:15 PM
Alba 29 Jan 07 - 10:25 PM
GUEST,TIA 29 Jan 07 - 10:38 PM
DougR 29 Jan 07 - 11:28 PM
GUEST,TIA 29 Jan 07 - 11:41 PM
GUEST,Dickey 30 Jan 07 - 02:17 AM
Alba 30 Jan 07 - 06:20 AM
dick greenhaus 30 Jan 07 - 11:36 AM
Scoville 30 Jan 07 - 11:49 AM
Greg F. 30 Jan 07 - 12:01 PM
Alba 30 Jan 07 - 12:06 PM
Greg F. 30 Jan 07 - 12:19 PM
JeremyC 30 Jan 07 - 12:27 PM
Peace 30 Jan 07 - 01:11 PM
JeremyC 30 Jan 07 - 01:27 PM
GUEST,guest ridge plucker 30 Jan 07 - 01:38 PM
GUEST,the answer man 30 Jan 07 - 01:41 PM
TIA 30 Jan 07 - 05:00 PM
GUEST,Coreyinprogress 01 Feb 07 - 01:43 PM
kendall 01 Feb 07 - 07:37 PM
Barry Finn 02 Feb 07 - 12:08 AM
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Subject: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 06:52 PM

I just a piece on this on the six o'clock news. The majority of the participants, at least those shown on TV, appeared to be in the 50+ age range. Why are the youth of America not protesting this war?

Crowd Gathers in Washington For Anti-War Protest

January 27, 2007 12:30 p.m. EST

Nicole King - All Headline News Staff Writer

Washington, DC (AHN) - Thousands of anti-war protesters, including actors and activists, have converged on Washington for a march against the war in Iraq. Marchers, including Jane Fonda and Susan Sarandon, are calling for the withdrawal of U.S. troops.

The group United for Peace and Justice sponsored the event. It's in response to President Bush's announcement that he's sending an additional 21,500 troops to Iraq.

The protest also coincides with Senate members considering passing resolutions that would state opposition to Mr. Bush's request.

Some of the scheduled speakers for the protest include Danny Glover, Tim Robbins, the Rev. Jesse Jackson and several members of Congress, as well as Sarandon and Fonda.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 07:04 PM

One reason, I believe, is that they are less secure in their futures than their parents were at that age, and have grown more involved with their own concerns and earnings, and less willing to assume the risks of protesting publically. Also, they may have a different dynamic because they did not grow up under a war generation, as we of the Boomer era did.

But that's just a quick opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 09:08 PM

Part of it's the all-volunteer armed services. During Vietnam, the draft made it personal. A young person today may not be in favor of the war, but the fact that he won't be forced to personally participate in it makes it less likely that he'll make a public stand.

Even the majority of those who know people who've been killed or wounded in Iraq look at it as "He was doing what he believed in." not "He didn't want to be there and his life was wasted for no reason." Cindy Sheehan's the exception, not the rule.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,Scoville at Dad's
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 11:16 PM

My brother just sent me a picture he took of the protest about 10 seconds ago (apparently he drove up from Williamsburg).


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 11:59 PM

It's the people who can remember Vietnam that are protesting simply because they can remember Vietnam. Kids today obviously can't remember it so they don't see the huge blundering mistakes that are being made and which are going to have quite a negative impact in the future.

But it only shows how unpopular this war has become when 50+ year-olds are protesting it when we remember that 55 and up voted virtually unanimously for Bush in '04. A lot of the protesters are vets also. That's pretty shocking to see such a demographic in a massive antiwar turnout in DC. That's Bush's former constituency right there and they're getting really mad that he's not listening to them (even though he never promised to pull out troops but vowed to keep them there for as long as it took and these people knew that very well going in to the '04 election).

Maybe this boomer generation will finally teach something of value to kids instead of endless consumerism.

Well, the American people get the president they deserve. Unfortunately, poor Iraq didn't deserve him. Bad enough Saddam.

I'm glad to see the protest but WHAT IN THE HELL TOOK SO LONG????


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,Scoville
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 12:12 AM

We Quakers have been protesting the whole time, but there aren't that many of us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 12:19 AM

There have been protests before this, all over the land. I think this is the first where the majority of Americans agree with the protesters. I'd like to know what took them so damn long to wake up to what the rest of us knew from the beginning.

Not all were over 50, today:

At the rally, 12-year-old Moriah Arnold told the crowd: "Now we know our leaders either lied to us or hid the truth. Because of our actions, the rest of the world sees us as a bully and a liar."


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 12:30 AM

Some 30,000 people were involve in protests, peace marches, and vigils in Seattle on the eve of the war, and protests have been going on ever since.

"What the hell took so long?"

Well, out in this neck of the woods, we've been at it since before the war started.

And I think the same thing has been going on all over the country. But the news media haven't been covering it much until just now. The Democratic victory and Bush's announcement about sending in more troops has suddenly made it newsworthy.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: number 6
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 12:34 AM

From March 18th, 2006 ... a perspective from not too long ago.

Peace Protest

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: dianavan
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 02:51 AM

Actually, if it is mostly over 50's protesting, I think its more significant than when youth are protesting.

Lets face it, most of those over 50, vote and pay taxes. We are, in fact, the leaders of the 21st century. At least they can't write us off as a bunch of hippies like they tried to do in the 60's.

Think about it. What were your parents doing in the 60's when you were protesting Viet Nam? If they were anything like mine, they were freaking out about long hair and pot, not the war.

Oh - I'm gonna start a new thread. What was your parents reaction to the peace protests of the 60's?


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 11:04 AM

I was there. Took a bunch of teenagers, plus my 75 year old mother. Saw many, many twenty- and thirtysomethings.

Great excitement when a large group of students pushed through a riot police line to occupy the terrace of the
Capitol.

Wasn't just 50+ 'ers. Not by any stretch.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 11:42 AM

when we remember that 55 and up voted virtually unanimously for Bush in '04.

Beg to differ, old fruit. I know dozens of people 55 and up and only one of them voted for Bush in 04. And it sure as hell was not me.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 12:07 PM

"Saw many, many twenty- and thirtysomethings."

Good to hear that TIA. As I said the clip that was shown on the six 0'clock news was focused on Jane Fonda and 50+ year old ex-hippie types, I guess the media is still fixated on the 60's peace protest stereotype.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Scoville
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 12:20 PM

I agree, Don--I'm Deep in the Heart of the Red States and around here, war protests are covered by the news only a) after all the murders and gruesome car accidents, and b) then only as sort of novelty items. The newscasters don't even know the lingo--we've had numerous "candlelight visuals" for peace, since they apparently have never heard of a "vigil". Sigh. But the tone is more akin to waiting to see if Punxsutawney [sp?] Phil sees his shadow than anything to be taken seriously.

We do it anyway, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 12:26 PM

Talk about "red states" -- Idaho is blood red from the Canadian border south.

There are lots of anti-Bush bumperstickers starting to appear here. And yes, there was a protest here yesterday. Maybe a hundred people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 12:37 PM

From GUEST 282RA:
"But it only shows how unpopular this war has become when 50+ year-olds are protesting it when we remember that 55 and up voted virtually unanimously for Bush in '04."

Really? Virtually unanimously? Where did you get that idea? I don't know anyone over 50 who voted for bush in 2004. Not a soul.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 12:42 PM

On another front, Wyo recently reported seeing the following bumper sticker in Topeha, Hansas, of al places:

I hope all those fetuses you save are gay...

BG


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 12:56 PM

According to the polls about 95% of the 55 and over camp voted for Bush. Rather than argue with me about it, go check the poll information from 2004.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 01:31 PM

Sorry, 282RA, but you're the one who needs to check your figures.

Click HERE and scroll down for age breakdown.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 02:52 PM

At last, the American people are beginning to wake up. They finally see that Bush has betrayed them (not that he was really elected in the first place). Cindy Sheehan is calling for an important part of views of the Democratic base. Her voice is growing stronger as Bush recedes into weakness. It's no mystery that the media has been co-opted by the Corporate ownership and can no longer be relied upon to offer credible news. The best you can do nowadays is to pick and choose your info on the Net.

The "Swift-boaters" will be spreading their Repuglican lies again in the next election and labeling those who oppose the Iraq Occupation as traitors and cowards. But most of them have not served in any war and hypocritically condemn those with conscience.

In the meantime, the voices of sanity are being heard as was demonstrated by the last largest contingent of what I would call true American patriots at the UFPJ rally in Washington, DC.

Darth Cheney and his mumblings will be relegated to the trash can.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 06:14 PM

You beat me to it, Don.
Thanks.

Perhaps 282 is referring to the number of registered Republicans over 55 but even at that 95% seems off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Scoville
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 09:45 PM

My brother tells us that during Jesse Jackson's speech, a police SUV drove around through the crowd blaring its siren for no apparent reason except to disrupt things.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,z
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 10:07 PM

The Democrats are going along with the war. This is not a political issue. Pelosi and Hillary Clinton are in there goose-stepping with the best of them. And the U.S. Senate voted 100-0 for the John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007, which places all state governors under the control of the president. This is not a political thing. The US Senate also voted 100-0 to issue Americans gestapo national I.D.s. under the Real I.D. Act. These aren't politicians, they're tyrannists. All of them. 100-0.

As long as people can be made to think the power elite is struggling between left and right, Democrat and Republican, good and evil, nothing will change. The federal govt of the US has been seized by gangsters. The gangsters work for bankers who own BOTH TEAMS.

All a person can do is point this out over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and hope that it starts clicking into place for people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 10:31 PM

"All a person can do is point this out over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and hope that it starts clicking into place for people.:

OK,let's say that it has clicked into place. What now?


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 12:06 AM

Scoville says:

"My brother tells us that during Jesse Jackson's speech, a police SUV drove around through the crowd blaring its siren for no apparent reason except to disrupt things."

It would be easy for those in front of the stage to think this. Actually, during Jackson's speech, SDS was staging their push to the Capitol steps, and all nearby police came racing to block them. Riot helmeted police formed lines twice to block the students, but they (SDS) linked arms and pushed through - finally occupying the west terrace -- peacefully. I suspect that the sirens were not an intentional ploy to disrupt the speech. They were on their way to reinforce the motorcycle and mounted police who were being over-run.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 12:57 AM

Sorry. Me at 12:06 above.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 04:33 PM

I just a piece on this on the six o'clock news. The majority of the participants, at least those shown on TV, appeared to be in the 50+ age range. Why are the youth of America not protesting this war?

_Probably because there is no draft today. The impact of this war is only on those who joined volunteraly. Sadly, many of today youth see no stake in the war, and look at society only as a mechinism for self gratification. I doubt Paris Hilton, Brittany Spears, et al, could find Iraq on a map. And because they have nothing personal to loose, the indifference is scary.

Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 10:15 PM

Please go to YouTube and watch any of the videos of Saturdays rally. LOTS of youth


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Alba
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 10:25 PM

There were a lot of Young Folks at the Rally I attended.
Cross the board age wise really.
Best to all,
Jude...nearly 50 but not quite yet:)


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 10:38 PM

Aha! Just cruising YouTube, I found a split second of me and my 14 year old daughter, and a few seconds of my 75 year old mother. We're famooose!


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: DougR
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 11:28 PM

The younger generation may (for what reason I cannot imagine) be more realistic than the previous one.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 11:41 PM

Once again folks, the entire discussion is moot. The premise is incorrect. Go look at the videos and you will see many, many, many young people. They were there.

The younger generation is mobilizing, and they are against the war, and don't have a problem with GBLT. It's morning in America (thanks for the line Ron).


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 02:17 AM

It would have been much better if the bulk of the potential protestors were not attending the Howdy Doody convention in Buffalo.

;-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Alba
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 06:20 AM

"The younger generation may (for what reason I cannot imagine) be more realistic than the previous one."

I hope so. The Young people I know tell me that War is not an option.
So I think they are more realistic and see Politics and War in a very different light.
May the younger generation find a way to abolish War and quite simply only put people in a position of Power that actually give a shit about the People they swear they will represent and protect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 11:36 AM

Hmm. And i thought that the effective anti-war protest happened back in November.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Scoville
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 11:49 AM

My brother is 27. A 30-ish friend of mine who lives near D.C. was also there with her husband. So that's three young'uns.

I think it's different for both the young and Viet Nam-era generations. We younger ones don't have the same experience as my parents, and my parents' Viet Nam-age friends and relatives still seem to show a considerable amount of polarization. Some of them are solidly anti-war and some, like my uncles, would go right back into it if the army would take overweight 65-year-olds. My impression is that the generation before that, WWII, was less divided, but I don't know that for sure. Teenagers younger than myself don't even remember the Gulf War (which my parents and I also protested).


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 12:01 PM

DOUG: did you mean that to be a fatuous pro-war comment, or a fatuous anti-war comment?


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Alba
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 12:06 PM

It is so obviously an anti-war comment Greg.
Even Doug, who's eyes were glued shut with Gorilla Glue, has finally woken up it would seem.
Awakenings are marvelous things aren't they.
Makes everyone around the recent awake-ee (is that a real word..:) feel all warm, fuzzy and SAFE!
Jude

I do believe in miracles, I do believe in miracles...


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 12:19 PM

Even Doug, who's eyes were glued shut with Gorilla Glue, has finally woken up it would seem.

Oh, please. Not in a thousand years. His comment is in reply to the question "Why are the youth of America not protesting this war?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: JeremyC
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 12:27 PM

One thing I love about my girlfriend's dad is that he's an ex-marine who fought in the Tet Offensive, a former president of an ironworkers' union, and he's not shy at all about his opinion on Bush. He was showing me around his neighborhood once, pointing out people who voted for Bush: "That fat asshole voted for Bush, and that asshole over there voted for Bush..." - He also will get into confrontations with people who have Bush stickers on their car. And this is Ohio, a pretty red state.

I think the lack of significant youth protests may be due in part to their hippie parents and grandparents, who raised them with a little too much "you are special and unique" and helped them become extremely self-absorbed. This is speaking as a member of that generation, since I was born in the 70s.

Another reason may be that Abbie Hoffman is dead and no one seems likely to fill his shoes. I mean, a coffin with boots on top of it? Please. If people can get large groups of teens and twentysomethings to show up someplace dressed like robots, or wander around WalMart in white coats (or Best Buy in blue polos), why can't anyone coordinate an interesting war protest? What happened to exorcising the Pentagon? That was a cool stunt that people could get behind.

And, as you can see from the paragraph above, another big component may be that Gens X and Y have bought into the entertainment culture, where little to nothing has value unless it's amusing. Being raised on network news, Phil Donahue, and various "newsmagazine" shows, I can see where this perspective comes from, even as I try to fight it in myself.

P.S. I would've voted for Pigasus over Bush. In fact, I think Pigasus has a good chance over many of the likely candidates for '08.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Peace
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 01:11 PM

Rule of thumb from a few 'organizers' from the 1960s.

1) Less than 5% of of the student body of even the more radical campuses would show up for demonstrations. There were often an equal number of students on the 'other' side.

2) While protest certainly firmed up the resolve of the anti-war people, its ability to change national policy was somewhat limited. The truth about deaths and the bodies going back to small-town America did much more.

3) You want the war done with, change your political leadership. So, exactly what ARE the House and Senate doing to end the war?


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: JeremyC
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 01:27 PM

That's pretty interesting. I guess it was the organizers' ability to manipulate the media that made it look like there were droves of students. I'd be interested to hear the "reality" version of the student protests from people who were actually there. From what I'd read and seen, it seemed like there was more solidarity and motivation than what Peace is indicating there.

Would you say it's more about a lack of effective leaders than the apathy, lack of stability, etc., people usually cite as reasons for low protest visibility?

Now what would be really funny is if Bush comes up with an "honorable withdrawal" plan for Iraq, pulls the troops out, and then gets impeached as Iraq further disintegrates into chaos.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,guest ridge plucker
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 01:38 PM

What I want to know where are all the christians. If a gay person is promoted to Bishop there are MASS protests. The reasons for this are some obscure reference in the bible against homosexuality. I think the I will not kill commendment written in stone would pull a little more weight then it seems to get. After all those red states were all for family values and christian values. It seems to me that the ten commandments should be somewhere in that value structure.

Pete


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,the answer man
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 01:41 PM

With no draft the young feel no jeopardy regarding war.
Also the video war game generations actually thiink war is cool.

Jeremy, the reason why the Bush dynasty/family is immune to impeachment is their careful selection of an extreme Vice President.
Quayle on one silly hand and on the other Frankenstein hand, Cheney.


PS

Quayle quotes:

I'll have to ask my wife
Countries like Africa...
No thats spelled PotatoE


Quick guide to Cheney's "Power Responses"

SO?
Your question is out of line.
I will not answer that question.
You are out of line.
Your question is predicated on baseless lies.
Go fuck yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: TIA
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 05:00 PM

"...I'd be interested to hear the "reality" version of the student protests from people who were actually there..."

I was there.
Been tryin' to tell you.
Not sinking in....


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: GUEST,Coreyinprogress
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 01:43 PM

I don't really know how I stumbled on this forum, but i believe that your discussion has unfortunalty been based on an incorrect premise. I marched in the protest Saturday, and the statement that there were not many students or people under the age of 50 is just inncorrect from what I saw. Some US news sources went so far as to call it a "student protest". I go to a state university in New York, and we sent more than two full busses down to D.C. just from our campus alone, and I have heard similar reports from other campuses.

However, I don't doubt that media coverage would make it seem like students weren't speaking out against the war. The media directlly after the protest said that numbers hovered around 100,000. The estimate afterwards were more like 400,000+.

I remember being very impressed how many "non-students" were at the rally. I'm also personally sick of my generation being characterized as apathetic. Remember the politics that we grew up under - Bush Senior, Reagan, Clinton, Bush Junior - none of which particularly motivating figures. We also witnessed an election in which a candidate won the popular vote and lost the electoral college. However, despite this fact, there are still some of us who are willing to drive through the entire night to stand in solidarity with our fellow citizens for peace.

Don't give up on our generation yet, its a different world that we're living in, and we're trying out best!


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: kendall
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 07:37 PM

What's this rumor about the protesters spray painting the capitol?


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Subject: RE: BS: Washington Anti-War Protest
From: Barry Finn
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 12:08 AM

Someone's been painting the town red? I'm thinking it was some one other than the protesters. Danm commie republicans!

Barry


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