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BS: New trend in abbreviations?

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Bernard 18 Dec 06 - 10:26 AM
Bill D 18 Dec 06 - 10:33 AM
Amos 18 Dec 06 - 10:38 AM
Bernard 18 Dec 06 - 10:42 AM
Bill D 18 Dec 06 - 10:42 AM
artbrooks 18 Dec 06 - 10:46 AM
Bernard 18 Dec 06 - 11:00 AM
Shaneo 18 Dec 06 - 11:11 AM
jeffp 18 Dec 06 - 11:24 AM
wysiwyg 18 Dec 06 - 11:26 AM
GUEST,meself 18 Dec 06 - 11:33 AM
Amos 18 Dec 06 - 11:34 AM
GUEST,Madelyn 18 Dec 06 - 11:40 AM
GUEST,ROTFL 18 Dec 06 - 11:45 AM
jeffp 18 Dec 06 - 11:48 AM
GUEST,meself 18 Dec 06 - 11:53 AM
jeffp 18 Dec 06 - 11:58 AM
Bernard 18 Dec 06 - 12:05 PM
Bernard 18 Dec 06 - 12:06 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Dec 06 - 01:00 PM
Shaneo 18 Dec 06 - 01:09 PM
Schantieman 18 Dec 06 - 01:16 PM
jeffp 18 Dec 06 - 01:20 PM
Schantieman 18 Dec 06 - 01:22 PM
jeffp 18 Dec 06 - 01:34 PM
JohnInKansas 18 Dec 06 - 01:42 PM
Scoville 18 Dec 06 - 01:43 PM
Wolfgang 18 Dec 06 - 01:51 PM
HuwG 18 Dec 06 - 02:54 PM
Mr Happy 18 Dec 06 - 03:34 PM
Doug Chadwick 18 Dec 06 - 04:43 PM
Leadfingers 18 Dec 06 - 04:49 PM
Bernard 18 Dec 06 - 05:02 PM
Liz the Squeak 18 Dec 06 - 05:26 PM
Doug Chadwick 18 Dec 06 - 05:37 PM
artbrooks 18 Dec 06 - 05:58 PM
Donuel 18 Dec 06 - 09:49 PM
Liz the Squeak 19 Dec 06 - 03:15 AM
Wolfgang 19 Dec 06 - 05:30 AM
Bernard 19 Dec 06 - 09:02 AM
Cluin 19 Dec 06 - 10:28 AM
Bernard 19 Dec 06 - 11:12 AM
JohnInKansas 19 Dec 06 - 06:50 PM
clueless don 20 Dec 06 - 09:19 AM
Cluin 20 Dec 06 - 10:07 AM
Bernard 22 Dec 06 - 06:45 AM
Desert Dancer 23 Dec 06 - 12:47 AM
Bernard 23 Dec 06 - 10:24 AM
Bill D 23 Dec 06 - 12:36 PM
Anne Lister 23 Dec 06 - 01:09 PM
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Subject: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Bernard
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 10:26 AM

Has anyone else noticed an annoying (for me!) new trend in the way two letter abbreviations such as PC (for Police Constable, Personal Computer, etc.) are appearing, particularly in the press and the BBC News website?

It seems trendy, now, for the abbreviation to become Pc - possibly because that's what an automatic spelling corrector often changes it to be.

Okay, I'm a pedant - but I do find it a little strange that this is creeping in by stealth.

So... does anyone know the reason, other than journalists' laziness, why this is becoming the norm?

Or does no-one really care one way or the other??

;o)


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 10:33 AM

It's worse than that. People who use a phrase in any kind of a semi-regular way are beginning to affect a 'need' to have an acronym (which I think you meant, rather than just abbreviation) for the phrase....as MUP for "Most Used Phrases".

It all upsets me...but then I'm just a GOM (Grumpy Old Man)


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Amos
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 10:38 AM

...and they are FLAs (flaming linguistic assholes).


A


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Bernard
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 10:42 AM

TBT!
(Too Bloody True!)


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 10:42 AM

perhaps ARIs (Anal Retentive Idiots)


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 10:46 AM

The ubiquitousness of the spell-checker has resulted in the rapid transition of all writers and editors into UTPRs (Unable To Proof Read).


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Bernard
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 11:00 AM

Yup.

I think there is a subtle distinction between acronyms and abbreviations, though...

An abbreviation SHOULD have full stops (periods) after each letter, but not in an acronym...

N.S.P.C.C., R.S.P.C.A., P.C., U.S.A. - all are abbreviations - or that's what I was told in the dark ages when I was at primary school!

Acronyms are abbreviations which are supposed to approximately spell a word, which is different - hence the full stops are dropped.

At least, I think so...!


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Shaneo
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 11:11 AM

Perhaps this is not the right place for this , but can someone tell me what xmas means , is it the lazy way of spelling Christmas ? or do people just want to remove Christ out of Christmas .
As a Christian I find this offensive .


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: jeffp
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 11:24 AM

The X represents the Greek letter Chi, which is the first letter in Christ. Nothing unChristian about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 11:26 AM

As well as a cross.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 11:33 AM

"As a Christian I find this offensive ."

Aren't there enough things in this world for any sane and caring and/or Christian person to find offensive without dreaming up new ones?


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Amos
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 11:34 AM

So nothing to get uncrossed about...


A


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: GUEST,Madelyn
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 11:40 AM

Maybe so, Jeff and WYSIWYG, but it's exactly what I write when I want to de-religiate the word. For you, the X "represents a cross", and "represents a letter in the Greek alphabet which is the first letter in Christ", but y'all are stretching things a bit to keep it how you want it to be. I'll bet neither of you actually use "xmas" to represent the holiday. Because actually, it doesn't.

"Xmas" is a colloquially comman way of writing the name of the holiday and removing the myth-focus. Its very ability to remove Christ from Christmas is what makes it a potent word.


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: GUEST,ROTFL
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 11:45 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: jeffp
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 11:48 AM

Actually, Xmas is older than you are. You are the one who is giving it a new meaning out of ignorance.

Merry Xmas!


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 11:53 AM

Well, by golly, you learn something every day. I've celebrated fifty-some Christmases in this world of sin, and this is the first time I've ever heard of the suggestion that there is something less religious about the spelling "Xmas". Is this some new notion the fundamentalists have cooked up, or has it been kicking around annoying people for awhile? I do admit I live pretty far from the road ...


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: jeffp
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 11:58 AM

Good discussion at Wikipedia. The use of X to stand for Christ goes back to the 16th century.


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Bernard
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 12:05 PM

I dont have a problem with WYSIWIG... you're flaming the wrong person here!!

;o)

As for Xmas... try this site! Or if you can't be bothered, here's the relevant bit:

The Origin of "Xmas"

The abbreviation of "Xmas" for Christmas, long reviled by many conservative and Low Church Christians, is not nearly as blasphemous as many contend. Rather than a sacrilegious removal of "Christ" from Christmas and replacing him with an unknown, as some claim, the "Xmas" abbreviation has a long history in the church. In Greek, the language in which the New Testament was first written, "chi" (c or C), which is almost identical to the Roman alphabet "X," is the first letter of the word "Christ" (cristoV, or as it would be written in older manuscripts, CRISTOS). In fact, the symbol of the fish in the early church came from using the first letter of several titles used for Jesus (Jesus Christ Son of God Savior) that when combined spelled the Greek word for fish (icquV, ichthus).

In the early days of printing when typesetting was done by hand and was very tedious and expensive, abbreviations were common. The church began to use the abbreviation "X" for the word "Christ" in religious publications. From there, the abbreviation moved into general use in newspapers and other publications, and "Xmas" became an accepted way of printing "Christmas."


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Bernard
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 12:06 PM

Oooooooops! WYSIWYG!!

That's the trouble with being a pedant... you've always got to be right...!!

;o)


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 01:00 PM

Nothing wrong with spelling Christmas Xmas. No different from writing "and" as "&". It shouldn't change the way it is pronounced, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Shaneo
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 01:09 PM

So how come you don't see it being used to spell for example Christopher , Happy xmas xopher


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Schantieman
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 01:16 PM

Xian is used from time to time I think. But as a devout atheist, what do I know?

Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: jeffp
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 01:20 PM

And if you read the Wikipedia article I linked to, you will learn that Xtal is often used for crystal, chiefly among radio enthusiasts.


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Schantieman
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 01:22 PM

...and as far as full stops go, the modern trend seems to be to leave them out of sets of initials, even when they don't make an acronym. Hence BBC, ITV (just to show my scrupulous fairness, even though the Beeb is far better than its Johnny-come-lately rival) and TLA (Three letter abbreviation - see separate thread).

Some initials aren't even given as capitals - rbc for red blood cells for example.

What does annoy me, though, is turning acronyms into words without acknowledging that they're acronyms - aids for AIDS is the most common.

Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: jeffp
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 01:34 PM

Interesting thing I found at reference.com. An abbreviation formed from inital letters without forming a word, such as BBC, is called an initialism. If it forms a word, it is an acronym.

And not all abbreviations have always been capitalized. The old state abbreviations, for example. Minn., Md., Penn., etc. And etc. for example. And only one word of the phrase is abbreviated in that one and a space is removed! English are a funny language indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 01:42 PM

Shaneo - The X as a symbol for THE CHRIST is so entrenched that using it for xopher would border on blasphemy - - or is that sacrilege(?)

A common problem with acronyms is with the word processors' "autocorrect" funcion. People do have a tendency to "hang" on the shift key, so that "doubled-capitals" are a very common typo. Most word processors can be set to automatically convert "doubles" to a single capital followed by lower case for the rest - sometimes brutally instisting on the change - and that correction is often a default setting.

That might be the source of the "Pc" cited above. Less literate persons may have picked up the notion that "that's how the computer does it, so it must be right." (?????) I haven't seen lower-casing in acronyms done deliberately by anyone over the (mental?) age of 9. ... .... much. But then I don't follow BBC all that much.

Since the autocorrect init caps is handy, the fix is to use the "autoreplace as you type" function to tell the wordprocessor that "Pc" is to be replaced by "PC," etc. The autocorrect happens first, and autoreplace will correct it back. This is a very big deal with companies that mix u.c. and l.c. in their company names, especially those that use an intital lower case with an uppercase following, so the fix is handy to know.

There is a trend toward not having editors and typesetters in the "news publication" business. What the reporter (now called an editor via title inflation) keys in is what gets printed, with minimal processing by dumb "formatter" programs. Perhaps BBC reporters (excuse me .... editors) just don't know how to use the programs the IT departments gave them.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Scoville
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 01:43 PM

There was a cartoon that used to run in my college newspaper (drawn by a student). One "episode" dealt with the rampant proliferation of acronyms on campus, which had pretty much reached the level of being a separate language. Anyway, the protagonist character went into an acronym-hallucination and was found crouched on the floor of the laundry room by another student, who asked, "RUOK?", to which he replied, "FU".


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 01:51 PM

What does annoy me, though, is turning acronyms into words without acknowledging that they're acronyms

Or when the acronym is not only turned into a noun but even into a verb: "I got flaked" "non-radared airstrips" "I got my eyes lasered". "a bug snafuing the list order"

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: HuwG
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 02:54 PM

"The ubiquitousness of the spell-checker has resulted in the rapid transition of all writers and editors into UTPRs (Unable To Proof Read). "

Shouldn't that be "ubiquity" ?


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 03:34 PM

One of my all time favourites: EETPU!!



[Electrical, Electronic, Telecommunications, and Plumbing Union]


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 04:43 PM

Has anyone else noticed an annoying (for me!) new trend in the way two letter abbreviations such as PC (for Police Constable, Personal Computer, etc.) are appearing, particularly in the press and the BBC News website?

Why get upset about two letter abbreviations when you're quite happy to use a three letter one for the British Broadcasting Corporation. Anyway, PC for Police Constable is hardly a new trend.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 04:49 PM

WHY is abbreviation such a long word ??


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Bernard
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 05:02 PM

Erm, Dc, this is what I was beefing about, not the actual abbreviation DC!!

;o)


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 05:26 PM

And why bother abbreviating World Wide Web.... to abbreviate it, you use 9 syllables instead of 3. The abbreviation WWW is longer than the original!

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 05:37 PM

Oh, I see. Sorry about that Bernard. I missed the point.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 05:58 PM

Ubiquitousness and ubiquity have (slightly) different meanings, and I meant the former.


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 09:49 PM

I see little oval stickers on the back of cars. One said OBX.
I took it to mean obnoxious. I really means the people had visited the Outer Banks of Carolina.


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 03:15 AM

I flew over America once.... had to get off the plane at Baltimore, go through customs, back on the same plane and over to Los Angeles where we got off, through customs again and then changed airlines. LA airport code is well suited to them, because they were certainly LAX in sending our luggage on. It was a week before it caught up with us.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 05:30 AM

The abbreviation WWW is longer than the original!

We are pleased with it: Veh veh veh

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Bernard
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 09:02 AM

Good, innit?!

;o)


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:28 AM

I got a Christmas card with a sideways smiley in it.


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Bernard
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 11:12 AM

'Appen you were just looking at it sideways?!


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 06:50 PM

They deliver Cluin's mail to him lying in the gutter?

John


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: clueless don
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:19 AM

JohnInKansas, I appreciated your 18 Dec 06 - 01:42 PM message. We spoke in another thread about the trouble I have with Microsoft Word, but one thing I did manage to do is turn off the autocorrect feature. As a result, I don't get "E.g." when what I want is "e.g.", or "I.e." when what I want is "i.e." (and yes, I do sometimes begin a sentence with one of those abbreviations.)

Sort of relevant to this thread is the fact that a member of another list I follow will consistently write "smth" when what he wants to say is "something". I did find this on some online list of abbreviations, but he is the only person I have ever seen actually use it. It drives me nuts, since even though I now know what it stands for, my brain can't help interpreting "smth" as "smith".

Don


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Cluin
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:07 AM

I forgot to let go of the ball.


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Bernard
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 06:45 AM

Don - just as you do, I find it particularly irritating when people send me an email with 'text' abbreviations (such as 'ur' for 'your', etc.).

As far as I'm aware, such abbreviations are used by texters simply because of the constraints of the system - most mobiles have limited text memory, and the keypad isn't exactly ideal for typing purposes.

Yes, I do know that such abbreviations originated in emails and bulletin boards, but that was in the days of very slow dial-up modems...

Maybe it's just me, but I find it somewhat insulting that someone isn't prepared to make that tiny bit of effort to use correct spelling and grammar, except, of course, for comic purposes...

I'm getting old, aren't I?!! I'll be my own grandpaw soon!


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 12:47 AM

Hey, gramps, once upon a time folks signed letters "Yr affectionate son, Thos. Pyewacket". I guess there's nothing new under the sun!


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Bernard
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 10:24 AM

That would be very misleading, though, unless their name really was Thomas Pyewacket...!!

;o)

Seems odd, though, to abbreviate a short word, but not a long one...


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 12:36 PM

not so odd..."Your fect son, T. Wacke".


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Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations?
From: Anne Lister
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 01:09 PM

On my first visit to the US I was totally perplexed by the street sign that read "PED XING".

One person's abbreviation is another's abomination and confusion, I think.

Anne


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