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BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed

GUEST,lox 02 Oct 06 - 05:45 PM
Mr Red 02 Oct 06 - 05:57 PM
Clinton Hammond 02 Oct 06 - 06:06 PM
Little Hawk 02 Oct 06 - 06:11 PM
GUEST,lox 02 Oct 06 - 06:16 PM
GUEST 02 Oct 06 - 06:22 PM
GUEST,lox 02 Oct 06 - 06:23 PM
GUEST 02 Oct 06 - 06:33 PM
Clinton Hammond 02 Oct 06 - 06:35 PM
Janie 02 Oct 06 - 06:45 PM
Little Hawk 02 Oct 06 - 06:47 PM
GUEST,mg 02 Oct 06 - 07:22 PM
GUEST,lox 02 Oct 06 - 07:43 PM
Big Mick 02 Oct 06 - 08:41 PM
SINSULL 02 Oct 06 - 11:13 PM
Barry Finn 03 Oct 06 - 02:58 AM
Donuel 03 Oct 06 - 07:52 AM
fat B****rd 03 Oct 06 - 08:04 AM
jacqui.c 03 Oct 06 - 08:23 AM
GUEST,lox 03 Oct 06 - 10:09 AM
GUEST,lox 03 Oct 06 - 10:18 AM
wysiwyg 03 Oct 06 - 10:21 AM
GUEST,lox 03 Oct 06 - 10:27 AM
kendall 03 Oct 06 - 10:28 AM
Alice 03 Oct 06 - 10:37 AM
GUEST,lox 03 Oct 06 - 10:37 AM
GUEST,lox 03 Oct 06 - 10:40 AM
Wesley S 03 Oct 06 - 11:41 AM
katlaughing 03 Oct 06 - 11:43 AM
Strollin' Johnny 03 Oct 06 - 01:46 PM
Alice 03 Oct 06 - 01:48 PM
Clinton Hammond 03 Oct 06 - 01:52 PM
GUEST 03 Oct 06 - 02:21 PM
GUEST,lox 03 Oct 06 - 03:27 PM
GUEST 03 Oct 06 - 04:00 PM
GUEST,lox 03 Oct 06 - 04:07 PM
GUEST,lox 03 Oct 06 - 04:23 PM
jacqui.c 03 Oct 06 - 04:55 PM
GUEST 03 Oct 06 - 04:59 PM
GUEST,lox 03 Oct 06 - 05:42 PM
Wesley S 03 Oct 06 - 05:53 PM
Barry Finn 03 Oct 06 - 06:02 PM
GUEST,lox 03 Oct 06 - 06:47 PM
GUEST,lox 03 Oct 06 - 06:50 PM
Amergin 03 Oct 06 - 06:52 PM
GUEST,mg 03 Oct 06 - 07:01 PM
GUEST 03 Oct 06 - 07:08 PM
GUEST,lox 03 Oct 06 - 07:29 PM
GUEST,lox 03 Oct 06 - 07:33 PM
GUEST,lox 03 Oct 06 - 07:46 PM
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Subject: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 05:45 PM

Has anyone been through this kind of scenario?

The drug in question is amphetamine.

More specifically, my ex partner (girlfriend) appears to have a personality disoder (narcissistic/borderline/antisocial)

We have a brilliant and beautiful 2 year old daughter who I fortunately have custody of.

The best way to describe my life until my ex moved out is that it was like the 3 of us were in a car with my ex driving, only she was blindfolded and burning down the road at 150 MPH whilst chugging at a bottle of whiskey.

I had our daughter on our knee and would say "you're going too fast" but she would tell me to stop criticizing her and hit the throttle even harder.

Me finally getting the protection of the courts (and believe me in the English legal system this is no mean feat and reqires focus, a hard chin, a willingness to take the blows and sacrifice everything) was like creating a protective bubble around myself and my daughter so my ex could crash if she wanted to but we would be safe.

She still hasn't learned though.

She's still shagging the men, still doing the drugs, still feeling sorry for herself.

But more worrying, the last time it was her turn to have our little girl around to give her her evening meal, she took her to her dealers instead.

She got back way after bedtime and little girl had a really sore bottom because her nappy was full and it was obvious that nobody had bothered to change it for at least an hour.

A million and one excuses for every thing from "the taxi was late" to "there was no credit on my phone" to "it was a different steve" to "But I didn't have any nappies".

Why the fuck not - you were supposed to be responsible for her for an hour - you are her mother - you should have been prepared or left early (or in this case maybe on time instead of an hour late would have done)

It is heartbreaking to watch the future prospects of a child crumble before she has a chance to even know what "opportunity" means.

I live in a constant state of simmering rage that someone could be so heartless and selfish. I don't understand how someone can be so stubborn and cruel and also have such a desire for sympathy.

RAAAAAGHHHH!!!!

Sorry, but some mothers don't deserve their kids.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 05:57 PM

when I hear people explaining that drugs should be made legal but controlled I do wonder that those people ever hear these kind of stories. Sure the are told but do they hear?


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:06 PM

"you were supposed to be responsible for her for an hour"
One doesn't expect a duck to meow, does one? Whey expect a drug addict to be responsible?? The failling is yours, for expecting and outcome that you knew was pure fiction from the beginning....

" I live in a constant state of simmering rage that someone could be so heartless and selfish."
Sounds to me like YOU need to take a good long read of the Serenity Prayer.... YOU can't change HER.... Wrap your head around that...


"I don't understand how someone can be so stubborn and cruel and also have such a desire for sympathy"
Then you don't understand thing one about addiction....

"Me finally getting the protection of the courts"
Why not fight to have her kicked out of your (And your daughters) life all together?!?! You'd all be better off for it...

"some mothers don't deserve their kids"
D'uh....   This is news???


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:11 PM

It's easy to get into a relationship (or marriage). Not nearly so easy to get out of it. Believe me, I know about that...have had a couple of experiences myself along that sort of line, but not quite as extreme as yours, lox. Thankfully! But reasonably close.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:16 PM

Clinton

I hear you.

I understand more than my post lets on. The desiderata of which you speak is relevant, true and wise but is as a mere thimblefull of water over big pile of embers.

Some posts express wisdom, others the heart and it's ever unanswered plea for sanity. This one is of the latter type.

The arrangement as it stands is an interim one with a final hearing due in november.

There is, I am afraid, no such thing as kicking her out altogether. I do intend to try and reduce propensity for harm as much as humanly possible though.

I'll throw in a few more details as I calm down :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:22 PM

this woman wouldn't be a famous singer would she ?


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:23 PM

sorry to disappoint - at least she would then have some redeeming feature.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:33 PM

If you want your daughter to see her mother then go for supervised contact. I don't want to sound patronising as I am sure you know all about the option. But for those who don't - you drop your child off at a 'contact centre', where professionals sit in and observe discreetly.

The centres (to a two year old) just look like a huge playroom. There are toys and juice and parents playing happily, but more importantly safely.

You don't have to stay, so mother and daughter do get time 'alone' together. Good luck.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:35 PM

"Not nearly so easy to get out of it."
Anybody can break a promise... It takes a lawyer to break a vow!

"a mere thimblefull of water over big pile of embers"
Your mistake is thinking that it's your fire to put out....

" There is, I am afraid, no such thing as kicking her out altogether."
Then maybe the law is different over there.... Too bad... You aughta lobby to have it changed.

"plea for sanity"
In this world?!?! See above re: Ducks meowing....


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Janie
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:45 PM

I was thinking along the same lines as Guest of 6:33 pm.

What a very difficult situation! Damage control is often the best one can do in these situations. My heart goes out to you and your daughter. I hope the day comes when Momma decides she wants her life to be something other than a train wreck. If that doesn't happen, you may eventually have to decide that your daughter seeing her is more harmful than not seeing her.

Blessings.

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 06:47 PM

"Anybody can break a promise... It takes a lawyer to break a vow!"

Bloody right! I thank God I didn't marry my first or my second girlfriend. Or have a child with either. Christ. It doesn't bear thinking about. There are worse things than death, in my opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 07:22 PM

She should never have the child unattended and she should never be allowed to drive with the child and you should certainly turn her in to the authorities for child endangerment and drug abuse and kick her out of your house. She might live in the streets and she might die but that is a decision she made when she took her first hit. Take your daughter and get far away if you can. Do whatever you can through the legal system. Don't give her chance after chance.   Not one chance ever again. Chances to a meth addict are like nothing. They will lie, steal, do whatever. Your child is absolutely unsafe with her and her creepy friends. Sooner or later she will be molested. If you do not get rid of this horrid woman (who may have redeeming qualities but none that are relevant right now) then turn the child in to foster care for her protection. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 07:43 PM

Underneath that austere exterior Clinton, there is a very funny man...


Ducks meowing LOL


As anticipated, much in the way of different perspectives and thought provoking wisdom has been given to me.

It is risky throwing your personal crap into an open forum like this, but I have seen enough of it to know that 1. everyone will disagree but 2. that they will be honest considered and genuine in what they have to offer.

I will come back and add to this tomorrow having had the benefit of some sleep, by giving more info and background.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 08:41 PM

lox, I want to tell you how very much I admire you. You fought for the safety of your daughter, and I am sure the price was huge in many ways. You are the kind of a man I would hope my own daughters would find to walk the world with. Thank you for setting such a splendid example. Your little girl is so lucky you are in her life, and one day will realize that.

There is no need to restate the excellent advice above, other than to second the fact that this woman must never, ever be with this child alone. You have fought so hard for her so far, that you must not let your ex endanger her in any way.

And in the meantime, I offer my hopes and prayers that this woman will hit bottom and seek the help she so desperately needs. Your daughter would be better off if she had two people in her life.

All the best,

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 11:13 PM

lox,
I have been in a similar situation. PM me if you want to talk about it.

Meantime, your little girl can not be left alone with her mother. Go back to court and plead your case. With any luck at all Mom will disappear into the woodwork and allow you to raise your child in as normal, safe, and loving an environment as possible.

I respect your commitment and admire your strength in handling this mess.

Good luck.
SINS


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 02:58 AM

Hi Lox
I can not say how much I agree wit CH & mg. My father was a junkie, my step father an alcholic, so please believe me, your daughter should never be alone & unsupervised with her mother, never be driving with her & she needs any & all remaing custody rights removed. (I would not normally have said something like this but I'm probably closer to this than most any one you'll ever meet & at this point I don't really care who knows what about me anymore). She needs your complete protection from her, it may be sad but the duck isn't going to meow. It'll be best for the long run too. I never met my father, once he was out until I was 12 about 13 by then he had cleaned up his act & my mother was sure of it & he stayed that way for the rest of his life. We became very close in my late teens when he was trying to help me with my drug problems & we stayed that way up untill his death. So my sister & I had a good 35+ yrs with him as a good friend. Hopefully your daughter will be as lucky but most are not & it'll take along time if that does happen so no matter what it's all about her saftey. Kids die in the hands of junkies.
Good luck, but you already know you'll be needing a lot more than that.

Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 07:52 AM

Recovery from amphetamines will never be complete.
The receptors in the brain are decimated. Serotonin levels will never be the same. A life long depression will result without treatment. The teeth will fracture and fall out.

IN my day the word was Speed Kills.

Back then people ate inhalers for benzedrine, dieters ground their teeth with over the counter speed and truckers would stay up for 5 days popping bennies. Little has changed despite the drug war started by Nixon which criminalized users and sellers alike.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: fat B****rd
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 08:04 AM

All of the above, Lox. I wish I had something clever to say to you. As it is. Take care and best from Charlie.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: jacqui.c
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 08:23 AM

Same as FB - I can't add anything to what has already been said except, perhaps, try not to badmouth her mother to your daughter. She will make up her own mind how she feels about her in time. Your daughter will respect you for not doing that - I know - my kids have told me so.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:09 AM

cheers folks -

Reading that stuff it's like having been floundering in the ocean just to keep afloat only to find a big bouncy castle sized LI-LO rising up under you from the depths.

I'm kind of sitting up wobbling about feeling a bit giddy and deeply flattered (who says flattery has to be shallow).

You are all consistent in one thing though and that is the hard choice that I face.

It is easy to point out hard realities when you are not embroiled in a situation, but can be hard to face them and to be tough in ones decision making when you are. especially when the person in question is somebody that you have invested so much in time and feeling into and they are the mother of your child to boot.

Hearing responses based on a consistent pattern of "well done keep going" on the one hane and "wake up and smell the coffee" on the other helps to strengthen the heart, steel the nerves and focus the mind.

Were it just one or the other I might become absorbed by my ego on the one hand or defensive in the extreme on the other.

SINSULL, I am grateful for your invitation to PM you on the subject. However, my intention in throwing this at the mudcat was to reach as wide and varied an audience as possible so as to benefit from the diversity of perspectives available on this site.

The responses I have read so far have all been based on a minimum of information so far. To give a full and complete history would take a whole thread in itself.

I would therefore like to invite those of you who have experience and feel you have something of value to offer to ask me the questions that spring to mind. I have nothing to hide and I will give full frank answers explaining any ambiguities along the way.

It's all about getting to the bottom of "it" and making sure the advice really is "right"

cheers folks


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:18 AM

PS - Jacqui.c

I absolutely agree!


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:21 AM

Lox,

I step-mothered a girl in a situation a bit less severe than you describe, but very similar. Until I came on the scene when she was 10, she had a lot of mother-figures in her life to take up the slack from her mother.

You've gotten sound advice here. Your daughter needs you to be an advocate for her and to help her understand that her mother is sick and can't take good care of her right now. I would strongly suggest you get some professional supportive help for yourself as well, so you can maintain that focus and have a place to vent the feelings of rage and disappointment that will also be part of your view of the mother for a long time.

Also, my nephew has some things in common with your daughter, too. He learned at an early age, which adults could be relied upon and which were to be considered there for enjoyment, at best. As he said one day to his grandma-- as a preteen talking of his mother-- "We are dealing with unkown forces here."

Mudcat can be a place where you can focus on the positives with your daughter, too-- a place where you can shift your attention from the maddening aspects of dealing with her mother, and just pour out your heart about the wonderful miracle your daughter is. Don't forget to tell us all about her in the months and years ahead! :~)

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:27 AM

Don't get me started ...


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: kendall
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:28 AM

Figure out what is REALLY best for the child, then do it.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Alice
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:37 AM

Lox, you could go into the details for weeks and yet the basic problem is the same for all situations where a parent is an addict. The child needs to be safe. It doesn't matter what kinds of drama and stories you can tell us. Those of us who have had relationships with an alcoholic or addict have lots of long dramatic stories, too, but the bottom line is safety and creating a healthy environment for that child. That means being the parent should be either kept away from the child completely when they behave in a way that psychologically or physically endangers the child, or the contact should be limited to HIGHLY SUPERVISED visits, preferrably in a professionally supervised space as described in the "contact centre" post by Guest.

Remember you cannot change her! Get yourself to counseling for dealing with an addict! You will learn a healthier way to separate and protect from the damaging person and move into a healthier future for your child and yourself. I once had great advice given to me to think of an alcoholic I had to get away from - I was told to think of him as a stranger I've never met. His crazy life would go on and I could continue in a life separate from him. Positive Mental Attitude for you will help your child have a better childhood. Positive mental attitude means you do not dwell on what you can't control or change, and you can't control or change an addict. Let the past go. If you have to get it out, tell it to a counselor or write it down, then see it as gone and in the past. Going over and over her bad behavior will just keep you mired in the past. You need that energy to be spent on building a positive future.

Good Luck!


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:37 AM

well up until sunday I would have held back on the supervised contact idea but now I can't see any alternative.

Before all the court nonsense kicked off I was present on 4 different occasions when my daghter found bags containing amphetamine residue.

The one thing I can seem to rely on from my ex is that no matter how bad the last stupid thing she has done is, she will absolutely for sure find a way to top it.

It's like she's been developing a talent over the last few years, or she's seeing it as some sort of challenge - what gross act of irresponsible reckless madness can I indulge in that would completely eclipse the last.

I simply cannot fathom her attitude.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 10:40 AM

Alice.

Yes - You are right.

I don't know about professional counselling, but extricating myself from the mire is essential


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 11:41 AM

Check your local resources for Narcotics Anonamous. There is bound be be an Al-Anon type group affiliated with it. They can help you learn how not to rescue her every time she has a crisis. You might even learn how to see the warning signs the next time you get into a relationship. Many folks break up with an addict so that they can start a relationship with a brand new addict. I hope you're not one of those.You can't help her. You can only help yourself and your daughter. It's one day at a time. And today's the day.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 11:43 AM

Well said, Alice. I agree wholeheartedly.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 01:46 PM

Lox, my son is 25 and has been an addict for the past 10 years - the absolute classic scenario, 'harmless' Pot to begin with (there's a f**kin' joke!), then Speed, Ecstasy, Temazepam, then Smack, then methadone, now methadone + temazepam. The hardest thing is to realise that you can't get another person off drugs, and that you are not responsible for what they do. It's a hard truth.

In almost 60 years of life I've never taken any illegal substance whatsoever, yet my life became dominated by drugs and addiction, and I only began to move forward when I accepted that I couldn't stop his addiction and that it wasn't my fault, and removed myself from his social circle.

I offer heartfelt best wishes to you, and I hope that you reach a happy conclusion as soon as possible.

Best,
S:0)


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Alice
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 01:48 PM

Lox, two things in your last post I want to address...
You can't fathom her behavior - that is because you are expecting her to be rational, sensible and trustworthy - and drug users are not rational, sensible or trustworthy!!!   You have been in love with a fantasy of what you wish her to be, not WHO SHE REALLY IS! It is hard to accept, but you have to face the fact that you have allowed a person to stay in your life who is dangerous and untrustworthy because you HOPED she wasn't. Get the fantasy of her out of your mind and face how she really behaves. Don't believe the nice things she says or does... it is all a manipulation to get away with the other crap she does.

I've been in your shoes, so please read this through a few times.
The other thing is that you were there when your little girl found drugs on four occasions. WHY was there the second, third and fourth occasion? Not because the addict didn't stop the drugs, it is expected an addict won't stop the drugs, but because you stayed around the addict with your daughter for it to happen again. I'm not trying to put a guilt trip on you, I know how UNBELIEVABLE their behavior is, so sometimes we go into denial that it could be happening or could happen over and over. ACCEPT reality and see that it will keep happening. This is where a professional could help you get in touch with the reality of what you can expect if you keep her around yourself and your daughter. I remember staying around someone who eventually threatened to kill me, just because I couldn't believe it was happening to me. It seemed unreal, but I'm telling you, the irrational and dangerous behavior from an addict is what you have to EXPECT. Don't expect her to act normally. Expect danger, and get your girl and yourself far away.

Take care,

Alice


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 01:52 PM

"Narcotics Anonamous. There is bound be be an Al-Anon type group affiliated with it"

Ya... so you can trade one addiction problem for another one....


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 02:21 PM

lox if you are in the UK check out RELEASE. They offer excellent counselling services for those affected by addiction through being close to the addict.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 03:27 PM

Alice -

Good question.

Here's the answer - and it brings up a the question of another debate that was much in the news a couple of years ago but which has fizzled out now that it is no longer the flavour of the month - namely fathers rights.
_____________________________

A bit of background:

Three days after I ended our relationship in August 2003 (as a result of the same addiction and general abusive behaviour), she rang me to inform me that she was pregnant and intended to keep the baby. Nine months of blackmail and manipulation then ensued.

When our child was born, I stayed in her flat on the sofa as there was no way on this earth that I was going to avoid my responsibility to my child and besides, the moment I saw her I WAS her Daddy. To me that means 100% commitment and sacrifice. Slowly, the inevitable gravity drew us back together.

her mother refused to put my name on the birth certificate (her discretion legally) because she didn't want me "having rights"

She is a psychiatric nurse, and while pregnant she worked in child protection as a paper pusher because it is inappropriate to have a pregnant woman doing active nursing and risking the uncertainties that go with the job. While there she learned about the legal status quo in this country.

If she ever had power as a result of the emotional blackmail she had inflicted before, it was nothing compared to what she could do once she realised that she could effectively control every aspect of my life with the threat that if I didn't toe the line she would simply click the "off" switch and I would be history.

This meant not only that I was subject to her every whim, but also that she was free to do whatever she liked whenever she liked and to ignore all responsibility and consequence on the basis that if I started something I risked the same "off" switch being flicked.

Fathers rights are a minefield in Britain as a rule. Fathers rights in the context described (in a nutshell) above are the equivalent of defusing a nuclear bomb with 10 seconds to go and tring to figure out which wire to cut next.

I was powerless to do anything for two and a half years, but have always known that I was and continue to be my daughters best if not only hope. I have therefore kept my head down and taken the punches. It may sound silly to some, but story's like the accounts of Ali's fight in Zaire against foreman that I've read, where he learned how to absorb foremans bonecrushing power until foreman got tired or made a mistake have been the stuff that has kept me going.

In the end, I couldn't take any more, and I subtly and carefully learned what I needed to do to neutralize the threat that I was facing. One day I called her bluff and she announced that that was it. She appeared to enjoy the whole process, teasing me with it in a way that demonstrated an almost fetishistic relish.

She came home from work one day to find a courier waiting for her from the court who issued her with an order prohibiting her from removing our daughter from our property.

Since then I have been unfolding again. She has done her damndest to try and hurt me, but none of it has teeth anymore as I have been very careful to ensure that my daughters is safe and secure with the only person in her life who has given her consistent care love loyalty honesty and attention.

I have lost every material thing I had to make it possible, but none of it mattered to me.

The reality that I am facing now is that that was not the war, just the first battle. The D-day landings if you like. I have a long long way to go and have other minefields to cross, the most dangerous one being the propensity for this whole situation to turn nasty if the dealer decides that it is all his business too.

Sunday's events are the indicator of the long drawn out reality of the future of this whole messy affair.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, Alice, the reason once became twice and three and four times was because I couldn't do anything without upending the whole apple cart. I needed to be patient on the one hand and "there" on the other.

I'll post this now as it is so that there is still some memory left on max's computer.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 04:00 PM

Is she still a psychiatric nurse? And this either will or won't sit easy with you, but some counsellors would advise you let her employers know the situation.

The reason being she needs to have the rug pulled out from under her feet completely in order to learn how to stand up again. It will also strengthen your position in any ensuing court battle. How can she be that bad if she is employed in a caring profession? That's one line her solicitor would trot out.

If wages pay for her addiction she needs to have them stopped. If she is still employed then I hazard a guess she has to fall a lot further before recovery. What would she do to fund her habit? Shoplifting? Prostitution? It isn't your problem. But if her addiction is being disguised to the outside world due to the normality of holding down a job she won't change a thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 04:07 PM

Strollin Johnny

I believe your situation to be a thousand times more hurtful than mine.

Ditching an lover, with whom one has voluntarily become entangled to be begin with is one thing, but having to be philosophical in the way that you obviously have in the knowledge of what you have had to accept is something that I don't know if I would have the strength to face.

Clearly "the cycle" doesn't apply in your case, though I don't want it repeated in mine. My bifggest fear is to do with my daughters long term prospects , aspirations etc

My heart goes out to you.

In fact, while my eyes are open, I will take stock of the spectrum of realities that has provoked the very positive and warm response that I have been privileged to receive. I am extremely grateful to you all and hope that this hasn't all been too self indulgent.

This ultimately has proved to be the greatest value of my decision to share this with you.

I don't feel so alone in my ordeal. It was shallow to begin with but as is inevitable understanding and wisdom grow deeper the further we explore.

Thanks for your precious time everyone!


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 04:23 PM

Guest

You have touched on a point that is very troubling to me.

A few years ago, She was suspended from work for a couple of years and investigated for gross misconduct (details best reserved).

Her union rep told her, upon lookng at her statement that she would lose her Job.

I, being somewhat suited to such tasks, sorted her out with a statement that not only excused her actions, but redirected the finger of blame squarely onto the ward where she worked, and certain key members of staff that she worked with.

I did a good job and nothing came of the investigation into har, while the ward where she worked appears to have undergone some serious overhauling.

What would the oucome of the investigation have been if they had known that she was spending around £50 per week on speed at the time. ( in the UK a gram of speed sells for £2.50) so we're talking 20 grams a week - and that's not at wholesale prices either so you could probably bump that up to at least 21, which would equate to 3 grams a day.

Not to mention that before I met her she was having an affair with her boss, the son of one of her colleagues (a colleague who coincidentally was implicated as a bully in the statement that I "edited" for her) and very possibly one of her patients.

I have enough knowledge to pull that rug with devastating effect should I so choose. The question is whether that is really something in my daughters interest, which ultimately is my primary concern as selfish as that seems now that I have written it in cold print ...


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: jacqui.c
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 04:55 PM

Lox - If it means that you have more of a chance of keeping custody of the little girl then do it.

There are also this woman's patients/co-workers to consider. Can she really do this kind of job to the best of her ability whilst her main thrust seems to be feeding her habit? What happens if she falls down on the job because of this and someone gets hurt as a result?

I would agree with GUEST 4.00pm - she needs the rug pulled out from under, for her own sake as well as the sake of all the others who could be affected.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 04:59 PM

Your daughter has a drug addict as a mother. Does her being an employed drug addict make it any better? Does it help the situation? Or are her wages helping her fund her addiction and not have to face up to the stark reality of what she has become?

She needs as many people as possible to point out in no uncertain terms that her conduct is unnacceptable. Her addiction is affecting her ability to mother. I doubt if it has no effect on her ability to nurse. She might not listen to you as you are too emotionally involved in the situation, but an employer is a different kettle of fish.

They will put their patients care first and there will be no grey areas. They could surprise you, they might even offer her professional help.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 05:42 PM

Guest - your last sentence is important.

It is a way of looking at things that I had not considered.

I have spent much time trying to "help" and it has been like trying to fill a bottomless pit.

I have long since retracted my desire to help, and am now left with (rapidly subsiding) feelings of anger.

There are dregs of sympathy left for her though in me, and "pulling the rug" has always seemed somehow a little too much, and while I have been betrayed countless times, and know that my loyalty is irrelevant as it is not understood let alone appreciated, I have felt reluctant to let the air out of the dingy so to speak, as I have felt that it would be malicious and equally indefensible in it's own right.

After all, two wrongs don't make a right.

The possibility that her employers might offer her support in their dealings with the problem somehow anaesthetises that concern.

My feeling is though (and it is supported by the knowledge I gleaned from supporting her 5 years ago), that once the truth is known and properly investigated, that she won't be a nurse any more.

How will she survive?


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 05:53 PM

"How will she survive?"

That's not your problem. Your problem is how will your daughter survive.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 06:02 PM

The best thing for your daughter is to have a straight mother, which may never be a reality. Her job as a nurse puts her in an eviorment that's a set up for failure, she a drug addict who's constantly around drugs! Her recovery is in your daughter's best interests but your daughter comes first & therefore her needs are more important than weither or not her mother recovers or not, at least for the present. Having no rights to her child will be helpful to every one involved. It might even help the mother come to terms with her addiction though I doubt it at the moment. A junkie doesn't think rational, there thoughts are always geared towards the next dose. So she's a danger to anyone she surrounds herself with. Her judgment is so far off that it's not possible to be a care giver, to herself, her charges or her daughter & you. I don't know how it is in the UK but if there's a social services for children she needs to be reported for child neglect & abuse (it is abuse) & you need to get both you & your daughter all the legal, medical, financial & child assisstence you can as well as legally distancing you & your daughter from her as far as possible. She needs to have all parental rights taken away as soon as can be. Only to be partly restored if & when she can prove to a court that she is reformed & clean. Prove her addiction to a court no matter what it takes & get complete custody of your daughter now. The courts may be a minefield for fathers but no court wants a kid to be in the postion that your daughter is in.

Again, good luck Lox

Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 06:47 PM

How would it be good for my daughter if her mother fell into prostitution or other worst case scenario's as a result of having the rug pulled?

She will have hard realities to face about her mother as it is as she grows up without having to face up to that kind of possibility.

This is one frustrating aspect. When you have a child, you become two people - yourself but also your childs parent.

I believe we define ourselves by our actions.

In a world of individuals, go ahead, define yourself how you like. But in your own childs interests let them have a definition of their mommy/daddy that they can feel good about.

My ex is running around defining her daughters mother in as uncompromisingly negative a way as she can.

If I push that deeper by really leaving her in the s**t then how am I helping her emotional health?

At the end of the day I know that above all, honesty is paramount and it is according to that maxim that I will measure each decision I make - but it's not easy


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 06:50 PM

"then how am I helping her emotional health?" (I mean my daughters emotional health)


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: Amergin
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 06:52 PM

MY best mate went through a very similar situation....he works for Foss Maritime, and when he would go out to sea she would bring her junkie friends in around their daughters...finally, he got enough support from family for when he was gone....and he kicked her out....they are divorced now....and although he is gone for months at a time he has full custody of the girls. In over two years she has not visited her daughters once....she is too wrapped up in her meth addiction....There are rumours also of heroin....

I went and visited them for a few days...and they told me something that broke my heart....but it is what he tells them....and it is the complete truth. "Our mommy is sick, when she gets better she will come see us."


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 07:01 PM

Whether she survives or not is something you have no control over. If she does, she does, and if she doesn't she doesn't. People die all the time. What I care about is her daughter and her patients. Do not be an enabler. Report her and save your daughter and save the patients. Do not worry if she becomes a prostitute. She might. Deal with it then. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 07:08 PM

To be honest lox your daughter is going to grow up for the forseeable future without a mother being a role model. The reason why she isn't a role model doesn't really matter to her. A two year old doesn't have degrees of hurt.

If her mother isn't at her first nativity play watching her dressed up as an angel and fluffing her lines, your daughter will either be upset or not be upset. She doesn't need at this stage to know why her mother isn't there. It wouldn't make sense to her.

I think you are still thinking too much, although understandably,about the effect all this will have on your ex. So you report her to her employer and either:

a) She is dismissed and hates you forever. Falls into a life of crime to fund her habit and has supervised contact with your daughter.

b) She is offered help at work. The shock of her facing her demons with her employers gives her the push to accept help. She slowly recovers and has a relationship with your daughter, on your terms.

c) She continues to do a passable job at work and the health service being the way it is, they are grateful she turns up and turn a blind eye to her unexplained decrease in performance. She gets paid, scores and has supervised contact with your daughter.

Can you think of another scenario? Are you still clinging onto the hope she will wake up and feel the same love for your daughter that you do and never touch the gear again? Granted it could happen. Is it likely in the near future?

By asking how prostitution could help the situation sounds as though you put more faith in her finding an alternative way to fund the habit than break it. And you know her best.

Out of interest and don't answer if you don't want to, how did you get custody if you weren't on the birth certificate. I never knew fathers could force their paternity to be aknowledged, but in situations such as yours it is reassuring to know they can.


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 07:29 PM

Yes

I've toyed with that Idea, but not quite got there yet - daughter is still too young to understand much of it, although she is fully aware that there is a problem.

For the record, mothers departure from the home hasn't resulted in the expected traumatised behaviour scenario, but rather the child has actually calmed down a lot (was already well behaved and bright)and is really developing into a clever, thoughtful together and confident individual.

Life at home has never been so relaxed and carefree.

The issue now is keeping her out of harms way - ie not going round to dealers house where needs are ignored.

mg - I have been slowly digesting what you said and considering how off the handle you may have flown, but in fact I fear you may not be as far off the mark as I wish you were.

My daughter is extremely beautiful and looks like growing up to be a bit of a looker.

What you say about creeps does concern me (and I am not the kind of guy to go out and lynch a paediatrician because I didn't know that means he's a "childrens doctor" and not a "chld molester" as crowds of people have been known to do in this country rather than spend a few short minutes checking their dictionaries)

I know the guy in queston has had his son run errands for him. I know he is the main source of stability for a 13 year old girl, herself known to abuse drugs and to be sexually active, and she in turn has a boyfriend who is in and out of youth correctional facilities. The girls mother was constantly overdosing before finally committing suicide fairly recently.

Myself and the Dealer had a period of contact at one point as I felt it worth trying to appeal to his better nature, but after a while I cut all lines of communication as my ex was stirring things up between us and he made it clear that he didn't wish to be involved in our dispute and that if I involved him in any way that was detrimental to the quality of the last years of his life (he is an old man with a terminal illness) that he had the means and the will to kill if he deemed it necessary.

This is the environment into which my ex feels it is appropriate to bring our daughter and it is the next battle I must win. It is not acceptable and I can't accept it.

I have a plan for now, but the question of her work issues is not a key factor - the key factor in all of this is the risk to the child which, particularly after sunday, is simply not a matter of opinion


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 07:33 PM

Yes was to amergin


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Subject: RE: BS: drug addiction and family/home destroyed
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 03 Oct 06 - 07:46 PM

I still don't have parental responsibility and am therefore still not legally anything to do with my daughter.

I put in an application for residency, but the key factor was, that I attended an ex parte court hearing in advance at which an "interim prohibited steps order" was issued, which bound our daughter to her current address until the issue be resolved.

I have been my daughters main carer ever since she stopped breast feeding, but in the current political reality, had I applied for residency and not got an order, mother could have simply upped and left with child, I would not have been able to stop her. She would then probably have been advised to adjourn repeatedly until such time as enough time had passed for her to say "but look, I've been her main carer for 6 months now" etc. I would have been better off saving my money for maintenance.

My intention wasn't to do anything but remove the threat of removal and upheaval etc. I hoped it would be a wake up call. Unfortunately it was all followed by more reckless stupidity and spite of the lowest type, but as I have said before, it lacked teeth as long as my baby was safe.


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