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Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)

GUEST 04 Sep 06 - 01:32 AM
GUEST 04 Sep 06 - 01:33 AM
Stilly River Sage 04 Sep 06 - 01:45 AM
Amos 04 Sep 06 - 01:58 AM
robomatic 04 Sep 06 - 02:02 AM
The Shambles 04 Sep 06 - 02:02 AM
catspaw49 04 Sep 06 - 02:18 AM
John O'L 04 Sep 06 - 02:48 AM
alison 04 Sep 06 - 03:07 AM
Partridge 04 Sep 06 - 03:29 AM
Ebbie 04 Sep 06 - 03:46 AM
Little Robyn 04 Sep 06 - 03:52 AM
Amergin 04 Sep 06 - 04:11 AM
The Shambles 04 Sep 06 - 04:41 AM
Divis Sweeney 04 Sep 06 - 05:16 AM
John MacKenzie 04 Sep 06 - 05:34 AM
GUEST,aussie aussie aussie 04 Sep 06 - 06:43 AM
kendall 04 Sep 06 - 07:39 AM
JennieG 04 Sep 06 - 07:40 AM
catspaw49 04 Sep 06 - 07:51 AM
Wolfgang 04 Sep 06 - 08:04 AM
John O'L 04 Sep 06 - 08:51 AM
Georgiansilver 04 Sep 06 - 09:38 AM
Maryrrf 04 Sep 06 - 10:09 AM
Charley Noble 04 Sep 06 - 10:27 AM
John Hardly 04 Sep 06 - 10:47 AM
bobad 04 Sep 06 - 10:48 AM
fogie 04 Sep 06 - 11:05 AM
John MacKenzie 04 Sep 06 - 11:14 AM
GUEST,282RA 04 Sep 06 - 11:21 AM
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Subject: Obit: Steve Irwin is dead
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 01:32 AM

THE Crocodile Hunter, Steve Irwin, is dead.

He was killed in a freak accident in Cairns, police sources said. It is understood he was killed by a sting-ray barb that went through his chest.

He was swimming off the Low Isles at Port Douglas filming an underwater documentary and that's when it occured.

Ambulance officers confirmed they attended a reef fatality this morning at Batt Reef off Port Douglas.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Steve Irwin is dead
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 01:33 AM

Sorry, this has nothing to do with music, should be in the BS section
    No need for this notice. Obituaries should be started with the "Obituary" tag, whether or not they deal with music. The Clones and I will eventually move the thread to non-music if that's where it belongs. That process seems easier than having two "obit" tags, one for music and one not.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Obit: Steve Irwin is dead
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 01:45 AM

What a sad, startling story. So many people tried to read about it that several Australian web news sites crashed. I didn't watch his programs, but always thought the bits I did see (advertisements) were good-spirited and entertaining.

Sad for his wife and children.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Steve Irwin is dead
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 01:58 AM

MSN Coverage here.


A


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Subject: RE: Obit: Steve Irwin is dead
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:02 AM

I first noticed him in a commercial that made fun of him, I think it was for Federal Express. It was beautifully cast, the actor did a perfect imitation of an overconfident Aussie daredevil just 'asking for it', right up until his eyes rolled back and he passed out. And of course that WAS Steve Irwin.

Truly unfortunate, and God give his wife and children strength and good memories.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Steve Irwin is dead
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:02 AM

Perhaps this bad news will turn out to be good news?

One now hopes that the fashion of TV shows that poke animals about will now revert to a more respectful (and safer) approach.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Steve Irwin is dead
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:18 AM

I'd suggest a new show that pokes your pathetic ass about Shambolina......

He did and was a lot more than Shammmy would have you believe. I'm sorry for his family and good friends who I know will miss him. He had some good projects underway that I hope continue.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Obit: Steve Irwin is dead
From: John O'L
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:48 AM

He did a lot of good. I'm sure his work will continue. He did a lot for Mother Nature, but true to form, the crusty old bitch nailed him in the end.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: alison
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:07 AM

aw what a shame.
he seemed like a nice bloke


slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Partridge
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:29 AM

I've watched his programmes and enjoyed them. He was involved in several projects that protected the wildlife of Australia and did loads for tourism. I'm not sure that anyone else could take his place.

What a character, he'll be very much missed.
How very sad for his family

Pat x


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:46 AM

Aw.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Robyn
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:52 AM

Crikey! What a way to go. Poor Steve. And poor Terri, Bindi and Bob.
We enjoy his programmes - he was on TV3 yesterday.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Amergin
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 04:11 AM

He pissed off alot of people with that stunt when he was feeding the croc with his bubs in the other hand....

Anyways....he died doing what he loved to do...and what was truly important to him....how many others can say the same?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 04:41 AM

I am surprised that anyone would appear to be surprised at this news.

Having seen him provide TV 'entertainment' by generally placing all kinds of wild animals under stress - it comes as little surprise that he has pushed his luck just once too often.

Any good he may have done for conservation was easily outweighed by the fact that he put the TV presentation of our natural world back about 30 years. This had moved on a lot until The Crocadile Hunter came along and spawned all manner of shows where it was once again thought manly to been seen chasing snakes and prodding crocodiles only for the ammusment of the viewers and the ego of the presenter.

And of course for the benefit of their bank balance.

There are many examples of individuals that work tirelessly, selflessly and anonymously for all manner of conservation projects. Perhaps they deserve to be given some credit here also - for their work will not receive much monetary reward?


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Subject: BS: Steve Irwin dead
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 05:16 AM

Sad news today that Australia's Steve Irwin, the quirky Australian naturalist who won worldwide acclaim, was killed by a stingray barb through the chest on Monday while diving off Australia's northeast coast.

Steve was hit by a stingray in the chest.He probably died from a cardiac arrest from the injury.He was 44.

Irwin won a global following for his dare-devil antics but also triggered outrage in 2004 by holding his then one-month-old baby while feeding a snapping crocodile at his Australian zoo.

He made almost 50 of his "Crocodile Hunter" documentaries which appeared on cable TV channel Animal Planet and won a worldwide audience.

May he rest in peace.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 05:34 AM

I aggree with you Roger, but a word of sympathy for those left behind would not be out of place.
A woman is left a widow, and two kids without a father, it is not their fault that he was a show off!
Giok


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,aussie aussie aussie
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 06:43 AM

shambles , you are obviously a ****WIT....

TAKES AN AUSTRALIAN TO FIGURE THAT ONE


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: kendall
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 07:39 AM

I also agree with Shambles. Much of what he did was just showing off.

Kendall, retired Conservation officer.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: JennieG
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 07:40 AM

I feel sorry for his wife and children, they are very young. Steve seemed a nice bloke who was very passionate about animals and was a bit larger than life.

Cheers
JennieG who never says "crikey!"


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 07:51 AM

Getting people to notice issues at times is done by showing off. From the milder types like Jack Hanna up through the Cousteaus to Steve Irwin....and in many other fields as well. No doubt he was a show-off and enjoyed it as well but he still got his messages through.

When I was teaching, the best piece of advice I got was that in this day and age, you had to be as entertaining as MTV. That may not be right, but it IS reality.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 08:04 AM

His last words: "Death, where is thy sting".

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: John O'L
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 08:51 AM

We all do what we can and what we're good at, and none of us is perfect. He did it in a very public forum 'cause that's who he was. The harm he did was negligible compared to the good he did.
You bag him for being a show-off?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 09:38 AM

Steve was not so much a show off as a good performer. The great work this guy did teaching at Crocodile School..teaching people how to help the animals...not stress them as Shambles seems to suggest. He cared highly for family, friends and all the animals he worked with. All the animals he handled in the programmes were so handled for either research of health purposes, as well as saving their lives by removing them from neighbourhoods where they were in danger of being shot by frightened residents. He also educated me and many of you in how to help those animals....I believe there are people on this thread who have failed to look beyond their own assumptions of what Steve Irwin did....and many of them would never have the guts to do the same...so sour grapes folks.
Rest in Peace Steve Irwin. You did much for the animals that needed your help.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Maryrrf
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 10:09 AM

I was truly shocked and sorry when I read this. I always enjoyed his shows and he seemed like a truly likeable person.   I do believe he was deeply committed to the animals he worked with and handled. However, I have often watched his shows (and the imitation shows that sprang up) and thought that he and others were just taking too many chances - getting too close and that something was bound to happen eventually. Maybe they'll excercise more caution from now on. But, back to Steve Irwin (they're showing clips of him now on the news)- he had a sparkly, friendly personality that just seemed to shine through. I will miss him!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 10:27 AM

And no one has a single word of condolence for the badly injured stingray who was just minding his/her own business.

Poor stingray...

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: John Hardly
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 10:47 AM

crikey.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: bobad
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 10:48 AM

"You did much for the animals that needed your help."

The best way to help animals, IMO, is to leave them and their habitats alone.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: fogie
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 11:05 AM

Now maybe theres an open niche for my projected TV program about hunting and taming dangerous plants? There's a particularly nasty nettle at the end of my garden- anyone know the telephone number of an appropriate producer?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 11:14 AM

Do you twitch or hop around when you talk, do you wave your hands excitedly, do you have an endearing little verbal trait, like a slight lisp, or the inability to pwonounce you Rs? Do you wear eccentric and/or colourful clothing, or go without shoes or some such odd manner of dressing?
If so then you stand a very good chance of getting your own programme.
BTW if you are female busty, and don't wear a bra so much the better!
Giok


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 11:21 AM

Some people need to remove head from rectum. The destruction of our coral reefs is a hell of a lot more stressful to the animals on it that Steve Irwin trying to shoot some footage of them.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 11:34 AM

In a show I saw recently he visited an area where crocodiles had recently killed a man. He criticised the local people for feeding the crocodiles and encouraging an association with this place for easy pickings as partly the cause of the fatality.

He then placed himself and film crew at risk by to wading about in the water at half light looking for the place where the crocodiles were nesting. He was later shown feeding the crocodiles himself.

The viewer did not learn much about the crocodiles which were just used to provide a thrilling backdrop. It is a cheap way to exploit wildlife in order to make a TV show and does little for conservation.

You can see why this style now has so many imitators, when you compare the cost with the shows where you do actually learn about the lives of wildlife. Where a team have spent many months and in some cases years, often in terrible conditions in order to produce enough footage to fill the same TV time slot with quality images and information. But manage to do this without stressing the subjects and without affecting the everyday lives of the real stars.

Perhaps when the rest of the TV snake chasers and croc prodders have been poisioned or trampled - there will be money available for a return to the sort of wildlife film-making where the daily lives of wildlife itself plays the starring role.

I am sure he was a nice bloke and of course it is bad news for his family and friends. But many far more committed but lesser known workers for conservation around the world would also have died today and also left grieving families but would not be receiving anywhere near the same sort of interest and concern.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 11:47 AM

First I would like to offer condolences to the family. To lose such a powerful figure in the lives of this family will be devastating. God be good to them and him.

This obituary thread, as so often happens, has taken on a subtext. I want you all to mark this post well. You won't see it often.

Ready?

I agree, for the most part, with Shambles. Not on his callous dismissal of a life, or even his aspersions on the good done for conservation. But his criticisms of todays shows, mostly imitations of Irwin's work, are spot on. Growing up in the 50's and 60's, we used to see the marvelous work done by wildlife videographers that clearly took months of dedication. It clearly sought to not impose on the animals world, but instead to observe. There was not a need for much dramatics, the pureness of the natural world provided it. And, if one were interested, one came to understand how it all works together. Todays shows seem to ignore the intricacies of how it all works together, the predators and scavengers, the prey and the prairie, if favor of focusing on just the life, death, danger and, most of all, the thrill. I don't feel it encourages a love and respect of nature.

Ramble, off.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 11:59 AM

Okay, let's not worry about the wholesale destruction of habitat due of "development", global warming, pollution, overpopulation, etc. The animals are much better off with Steve Irwin out of the way. Let's just leave the animals alone--with the real estate moguls, poachers, militarists, financiers, idiots, industrialists, politicians, and animal rights nuts. Better them than Irwin. We learn about and understand the world so much more from the others.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 12:02 PM

282RA, I am not suggesting that those aren't the real culprit. You are, of course, spot on. What I am saying is that these shows don't do much to encourage the kind of love of wild places and wildlife that would spur interest in preservation. This is just my impression.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: pdq
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 12:14 PM

Marlin Perkins started his nature show Wild Kingdom in 1963. In 1968, The Undersea World of Jacques Cousteau began a eight year run. Both Perkins and Cousteau raised the public's interest level in nature, therefore helping conservationists promote important issues such as habitat destruction and protection of endangered species. They also came across as a college professor type and an elitist.

Steve Erwin was able to get the common working class's attention and for that reason was at least as important as his more erudite predecessors.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 12:28 PM

His death does not come as a surprise. He loved taking chances and had to know that at some point he would make a mistake. I am sorry for his family's loss.

That said, I too hated to watch him disturb animals in their habitats just so he could play to the camera. All too often I found myself rooting for the snake.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 01:06 PM

In order for the public in general to understand what the environmental issues are, said issues often need to be presented as entertainment. Sad, but true. Eco-tourism is entertainment, so was the programming by Marlin Perkins, and Joan Embry when she was on Johnny Carson, and so was the work of Steve Irwin. They all also had the personalities to pull it off, because they were entertainers as well as educators. They have to aim at the lowest common denominator to get the point across. There is a fine line to tread, however, to avoid encouraging their more dense viewers from straying into a "Jackass" mode. One presumes that if someone with the title "crocodile hunter" wades into water where he knows there are crocodiles, then he knows the risks. To sit in your comfy living room chair and pass judgement is a little disingenuous, don't you think? When engaged in dangerous careers, most people know what the risks are.

Jean-Michel Cousteau is carrying on in his father's footsteps after the plane crash death of his older brother Philippe. There is quite a family struggle going on there because Jacques' airline-stewardess mistress got the cash and the estate, but all in all, they still attempting to move forward. One presumes that Steve Irwin's family life was less messy and that his family will be able to continue educating and entertaining through good works.

Shambles, you chronically wade into threads to offer discordant rambling remarks in bad taste. Stow it.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 01:28 PM

'Freakish' Accident Kills Crocodile Hunter
Friends Remember Him as Much More Than His Outrageous TV Persona

link

Sept. 4, 2006 — Whenever Steve Irwin, known to his fans worldwide as the "Crocodile Hunter," made his way onto the TV, it was virtually impossible to change the channel. His energy, accent, trademark catchword "Crikey!" and the fearless way he handled the most daunting of crocodiles — calling them beauties and Sheilas — captivated his audience. Irwin often dodged danger to show that there was nothing in nature worth fearing, because he believed that behind the sharpest teeth glimmered a misunderstood soul.

Irwin's friend, zoologist Jack Hanna, said there was more to the Crocodile Hunter than his outrageous persona. "People think of him as this sort of wild, crazy guy. … This image on television," Hanna said in an interview with "Good Morning America" today. "But he really was quite an expert in the field. The guy was incredible. His knowledge was incredible."

On an ocean dive off the coast of northeastern Australia, nature finally caught up with the 44-year-old. While filming a new documentary, the Animal Planet star was stung in the heart by a stingray's sharp, toxin-filled barbs. Paramedics were helicoptered in, but it was too late. Doctors believe Irwin likely died instantly.

Wildlife experts and doctors say it is extremely unusual for a stingray injury to be fatal. "It's freakish from the standpoint that I've been filming in the Great Barrier Reef. I've filmed stingrays all over the world," Hanna said. "People may think they're an animal that attacks. They're not."

Real Tarzan

Irwin said once he wanted to be a "wildlife warrior."

"All I ever wanted to do was be Tarzan, only a reality-based Tarzan, who is actually out there rescuing wildlife," he said.

It was that gusto and confidence that made Irwin a household name with a worldwide audience estimated at about 2 million. Even when the cameras stopped rolling, he and his wife, Terri, remained dedicated protectors of the Outback.

With their two children in tow, they ran the Australia Zoo. Irwin's showmanship sometimes caused controversy. In 2004, he was criticized for bringing his newborn baby Robert within feet of a snapping crocodile. He stood by his actions when he spoke to Diane Sawyer on "Good Morning America" in 2004. When Sawyer asked him what he feared the most, Irwin's answer wasn't venom or teeth, it was the animal within each of us.

"I'm most afraid of people," Irwin said. "The places where I go, the people factor is just so scary, you know, bad guys running around with guns and stuff. And, of course, the diseases. You know, I love to go with my family, but I can't take them where there's like malaria, typhoid, yellow fever."

True Champion of the Environment

Irwin is survived by wife Terri, also a dedicated conservationist; his daughter, Bindi Sue, 8; and his son, Bob, who will turn 3 in December. Friends say that Irwin was gentle, kind and personable when the TV cameras were off.

"Steve Irwin is a very polite person," said Kevin Phillips, a dive master and friend. "He is just like you and I. He will share a joke, have a bit of a yarn, poke some fun. He is a guy that truly, truly loves life."

Irwin once said that he was put on Earth to help conserve our wilderness, our oceans and wildlife. Tragically, it was that unabashed passion that cut his life short. "I will remember Steve Irwin as a friend, not only to me, but to all," Phillips said. "He is a great man and a true champion of the environment."


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 01:28 PM

If ya swim with rays, yer gonna get stung...

*In my best Quint voice*
"Farewell and adieu to you, fair Spanish ladies.
Farewell and adieu, you ladies of Spain.
For we've received orders for to sail back to Boston.
And so nevermore shall we see you again. "

" Growing up in the 50's and 60's, we used to see..."
Blah blah blah... ya... and your farts didn't stink back then either... And the streets were paved with warm golden pussy....


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:04 PM

http://newsroom.blogs.oregonlive.com/uploads/20876-9EF21DFE-8CA1-443E-8C6E-8B7B1AE554F9.jpg

Nice pix.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:18 PM

When I saw the headline I immediately thought, "Crikey! He's been eaten by a crocodile!" It turned out that he was stung by a stingray instead, which hardly seems fitting. Quite disappointing, really. If you gotta go, it should be in the most classic manner, I think, and for Steve Irwin that would have been death by crocodile.

I don't know whether crocodiles throughout the length and breadth of Australia will be mourning or celebrating tonight...but things will certainly never be quite the same, will they?

By the way, the silly bloke looked an awful lot like my nextdoor neighbour Glen. Glen does not wrestle crocodiles, however, he mows lawns and does snowplowing. This may be why Glen is not famous and has not had a fatal encounter with a dangerous animal as yet.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:21 PM

Well, Number one, he was who he was. I don't think he claimed what he was doing was safe or recommended. He was demonstrating in a practical and yes, telegenic way, characteristics of animals. He was attracted to 'big critters' that are not well-liked by the population as a whole and he acted on that attraction.

Do we know how he lived his life off-camera? That would say as much as or more than the broadcast side of the man.

I have often heard that sting rays can be dangerous, but I've never heard of someone being killed by one. It sounds like a freak accident that could have happened to anyone who didn't spend all their time on their sofa.

As Lawnchair Larry said: "A man can't just sit around"


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:24 PM

Tell that to Eddie Whatnoll.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:24 PM

" he was who he was"

Who isn't.....


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:44 PM

He was born and raised around crocs and grew up with a love for his work, via his parents, according to what I heard this morning on a news show, which carried footage of him defending having his kids around the critters.

We enjoyed his show, up to a point, but it did seem as though he went OTT sometimes. THAT, however, does not mean his actions should have been fatal. I will miss seeing him on Animal Planet and cannot even imagine how sad this must be for his family and friends.

LH, I am glad it wasn't a croc which got him. I think that would have been horrible for his family, plus they probably would have had to destroy the croc and that would not have been good. Was the sting ray really injured? Anyone know?

May his family receive all of the love and support they can at this time and may the world refrain from judgement and too much intrusion in what should be a private affair.

kat


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:48 PM

When engaged in dangerous careers, most people know what the risks are.

Seemingly not in this case.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:53 PM

Wildlife experts and doctors say it is extremely unusual for a stingray injury to be fatal. "It's freakish from the standpoint that I've been filming in the Great Barrier Reef. I've filmed stingrays all over the world," Hanna said. "People may think they're an animal that attacks. They're not."

It would appear that they are.

Please save us from experts such as these.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:56 PM

Rays tend to lie on the bottom and cover up with sand. They're nearly impossible to see. When I took a SCUBA class, we were on a dive and the instructor motioned "stop - danger" so we watched as he roused the nearly invisible sting ray. This was a really bizarre accident, and my guess is he swam right up over it, and it startled.

As far as his dangerous activities with crocs and other critters, I think they looked far more dangerous than they really were. I think he knew exactly how they'd act, and how fast they'd move I think he really knew his abilities and limitations.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:02 PM

I guess Steve won't even qualify for a Darwin Award, cause he already has kids....


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:07 PM

As far as his dangerous activities with crocs and other critters, I think they looked far more dangerous than they really were. I think he knew exactly how they'd act, and how fast they'd move I think he really knew his abilities and limitations.

I suggest if that were really the case we would not be posting here about his death. Events and the evidence would indicate that if he thought this - he was proved to be quite wrong.

I suspect that those keepers and trainers who do work with animals in such situations would suggest that when you start to think like that - is the time when you should move on to another trade before it is too late.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:16 PM

Now, Kat, don't go taking me seriously when I'm not being serious...

I don't really have any strong opinions about Steve Irwin. He was probably an allright guy with a gift for self-promotion, I figure. My comments about "death by crocodile" were strictly tongue-in-cheek. If I thought his family were listening in on this conversation (which I doubt), I would not make such jokes, I assure you.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:19 PM

No, Steve won't qualify for a Darwin Award, but there's still hope for you, Clinton. ;-)


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:20 PM

You first... You deserve it more


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,Rev
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:33 PM

I've been listening on the radio to some interviews with shark and ray experts. They say, based on what Irwin's scuba team reported, that the ray didn't "attack" him, but was simply acting in a defensive manner. Irwin was swimming above the animal, trying to get on its back (just like he does with crocs), and the ray flicked his stinger up and it caught him just below the sternum, peircing his heart. It was probably the only place, besides maybe the head, that one could receive a fatal sting frm a stingray. They say that Irwin probably died instantly and felt no pain.

I agree that he was greatly entertaining, and from what I've heard he was a passionate and generous conservationist, and a loving father and husband, and so his loss is very sad. That being said, I also have to agree with those who say it's no shock that he died in such a manner. It's a bit like that documentary "Grizzly Man." If you spend your days imposing yourself on dangerous animals, one of those days the animals are going to lash out at you. And generally, the animal is going to win.
Rev


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Gurney
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:49 PM

According to our news this morning, he was filming with the stingray, and there is footage in police hands.

Crocs and other seriously unpopular creatures have lost another chance to avoid extinction.

I've been scratched with a stingray barb. It isn't 'poison-filled', but poisonous-slime coated, and it really, really hurts.
Stingrays seem quite gentle, but they seem also to react automatically to threats, real or perceived.

Condolences to Terri and the kids.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:56 PM

I will be happy to go first, Clinton, because I think I'm a good deal older than you, going by your various comments here. Seriously, death is just fine by me, whenever it decides to come.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 04:12 PM

From the Darwin Awards web page

"The existence of offspring, though potentially deleterious to the gene pool, does not disqualify a nominee. Children inherit only half of each parent's genetic material and thus have their own chance to survive or snuff themselves. If, for instance, the offspring has inherited the "Play With Combustibles" gene, but also has inherited the "Use Caution When..." gene, then she is a potential innovator and asset to the human race. Therefore, each nominee is judged based on whether or not she has removed her own genes, without consideration to the number of offspring or, in the case of an elderly winner, the likelihood of producing more offspring."

So I guess there's hope for Steve after all....

vote now.... vote often


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 04:24 PM

Thanks, LH, sorry I was being so serious.:-)

Not referring to your comments, LH, but I do think it is unseemly to use an obit thread to slag off on somebody. Accidents happen...can you understand that, Shambles? Jaysus...*shakes head*


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 06:33 PM

Thank goodness his family are unlikely to read this thread.

Rhiannon


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Genie
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 06:48 PM

As I understand it, they're calling it a "freak accident," not because stingrays don't normally sting, but because their venom isn't normally fatal to an adult human.   What Steve was doing at the time of his death was not as foolhardy as some are making it out to be.   (BTW, Marlin Perkins got bitten several times by poisonous snakes and came close to dying from it a couple times.)   
Beekeepers sometimes get fatally stung too.   Experienced drivers get killed in car crashes.
This ray's barb happened to pierce Irwin's rib cage, with the sting going almost directly to the heart, from what I've read.

As the Aussie press release said, he died doing what he loved.   And probably in a less dangerous situation than many he's been in. But people do get struck by lightning, and sometimes a normally nonlethal animal encounter turns lethal.

Sad that his death came at such a young age. He'll be missed.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: pdq
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 06:52 PM

Steve Irwin's dying young is quite sad. With that personality, he would have made a great 'old geezer'.

It was mentioned above that rays are usually at the ocean bottom. That is because they have no air bladder to adjust buoyancy, as do fish. When a shark or ray stops swimming, if starts to sink.

For what it's worth, the ray has no brain as we know it. Just a nerve center. Sharks and rays are extremely primitive animals when you compare them to the normal 'boney fish'. Their relatives go back on Earth (in water, actually) about 1/2 billion years. Almost 'living fossils'. They have no ability to think, only to react to stimuli. The sting ray did not intend to kill, it just reacted.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 07:29 PM

You play with fire you get burnt


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 07:36 PM

For what it's worth, the ray has no brain as we know it.

Perhaps rays may have a lot more brain than many of us who would be silly enough to provoke them.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 08:18 PM

I suppose I'm still over reacting to what I learned about with regard to how they filmed some of the early Disney wildlife films. They were beautiful films to watch. And then I learned that the bear cub nestled next to its mother was a lovely shot facilitated by shooting its mother.

Steve Irwin seemed to care about wildlife even if he took risks in interacting with them to attract the attention of the public.

I am also saddened by his loss but I never admired his entertainment skills.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Sorcha
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 08:41 PM

Yes, I feel for his family, and he died doing what he loved, but his nine lives were up. He was a good guy, a conservationist, but he took (and showed on film) far too many risks. He filmed himself, an EDUCACATED wildlife person doing things no other person should do.

I much prefer to watch Jeff Corwin. He is safer. RIP, Steve, and may his family find peace somewhere.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 08:51 PM

"When engaged in dangerous careers, most people know what the risks are."

Seemingly not in this case.
--Shambles

You just don't get it, but that's probably because you have your head so firmly up your own backside. But I guess that's your lot in life. Knowing the risk means knowing you could die from this activity and hoping (calculating?) that you'll be skillful and lucky and survive anyway. Knowing the risk doesn't mean you stop that activity.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 08:59 PM

Thank you Stilly.......perfectly stated.

And btw, Shambolina has no brain as we know it either..........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Joybell
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 10:15 PM

Since we are looking at several sides of a celebrity I feel compelled to add my two bob's worth. Steve Irwin made it known - on TV, that he wanted to punch Bob Brown in the face. Said he (Senator Bob Brown) gave conservationists a bad name. The comment followed Bob Brown's verbal poke at George Bush. Bob Brown is up against far more fearsome foes than poisonous snakes and crocodiles. I resent Steve Irwin's very aggressive comment about a man who is a deeply committed, gentle, tireless worker for the conservation of wildlife.
Joy


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Genie
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 10:40 PM

Shambles, it seems you and others, including some in the drama-hungry media, are assuming that if someone is killed in an activity, that's proof that the activity is especially dangerous.

Steve Irwin did take risks in his work -- as do truck drivers, police officers, construction workers, and people in many other professions. But it seems Irwin's death came at a time when he was engaging in a comparatively safe activity for a naturalist-entertainer-educator who works in the wild.   

From the news report cited above:
"Wildlife experts and doctors say it is extremely unusual for a stingray injury to be fatal. "It's freakish from the standpoint that I've been filming in the Great Barrier Reef. I've filmed stingrays all over the world," Hanna said. "People may think they're an animal that attacks. They're not."

And, as mentioned above, had this ray not stung him in the heart, he probably would not have died from the "attack."

I think this statement Steve made about the dangers of his profession compared to other day to day risks is spot on:
"When [Diane] Sawyer asked him what he feared the most, Irwin's answer wasn't venom or teeth, it was the animal within each of us.

"I'm most afraid of people," Irwin said. "The places where I go, the people factor is just so scary, you know, bad guys running around with guns and stuff. And, of course, the diseases. You know, I love to go with my family, but I can't take them where there's like malaria, typhoid, yellow fever ... "

I drive thousands of miles every year in my work, often in less-than-ideal road conditions. And, yes, I know the risks. But if I end up getting killed some day because an semi loses a wheel and it crashes into my car, I don't think people will say, "Gee, most people in dangerous careers know the risks, but seemingly she didn't."

I think it's kind of ironic that with all the risks Irwin did often take in his work, he seems to have have met his death during one of the less risky endeavors.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 11:03 PM

I figured that the shithouse lawyers on Mudcat would come out on this one.

Of course Irwin was a showman, thank god for that. You need theater to attract attention and get a point across. Some of the greatest activists mastered that and were able to open the eyes and ears of people to various injustices.

To borrow Joy's words - Steve Irwin was a deeply committed, gentle, tireless worker for the convservation of wildlife.   He used his TV money to but land for animal habitats.   He was able to do more good then most, and for that he will be remembered.

Someone mentioned "Grizzlyman". I urge people to check out this film if you have not seen it. While we may judge people like this to be crazy, we also get a glimpse of what makes certain people so committed to their cause.   Sure, sometimes people go over the edge, but instead of a quick condemnation, try finding out why.   You don't have to agree with their work, but try to understand it from a viewpoint other than your own.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 11:06 PM

This is hideous news.

As far as the people who are concerned his behavior might encourage other reckless behavior, they must not know one of his most famous phrases was "Danger, danger danger" and something to the effect of "don't try this at home". He did not try to advocate that untrained people do what he did.

And, as been mentioned, he did die doing what he most loved.

And as pdq, SRS and others have mentioned, his mastery of the entertainment aspects of what he did made him connect with a hell of lot more people than a dry academic approach would have. In this he is in the tradition of Wild Kingdom, etc. --as already noted.

And the more people who are brought into conservation advocacy the better--there sure is enough pressure on the other side--destroying more habitats every day.

A true tragedy--and no occasion for petty sniping at him--some of which I've seen on this thread, of all places.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: lamarca
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 11:22 PM

Big Mick said: Growing up in the 50's and 60's, we used to see the marvelous work done by wildlife videographers that clearly took months of dedication. It clearly sought to not impose on the animals world, but instead to observe. There was not a need for much dramatics, the pureness of the natural world provided it. And, if one were interested, one came to understand how it all works together.

Sorry, Mick, but the 50's and 60's "Nature" films, at least the ones produced by Disney, were atrocious - they used captive animals and created fictitious "real-life" scenes, such as the infamous White Wilderness. In this film, they purchased lemmings captured by Inuit children, jumbled them all together on a turntable device to get good camera angles that made it look like a swarm, then drove them over a cliff to their deaths, forever spawning the Myth of Lemming Suicide (and a good number of funny Les Barker poems). Check it out on my favorite Urban Legend-Busting site, http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.htm

It takes years to make really dedicated, thoughtful natural history films like Microcosmos and Winged Migration; something that doesn't appeal to the Roman Circus appetites of typical TV viewers. Why are there so many "Natural History" programs that feature predators? Why is animal vs. animal violence and sex more appealing to the Naked Apes who watch TV than explorations of the intricacies of the ecological web in which we live?

While cable channels such as Animal Planet and Discovery have managed to educate some people, they've also had the drawback of giving false expectations. People will go to Yellowstone and expect the wildlife to be right there, on display, just like it is on TV.

From what I've read on the birding listserve to which I subscribe, Steve Irwin did a lot of valuable conservation work with the money his quirky show produced, and he's to be lauded for that. I just wish that he hadn't had to play to the Animal in us to win interest and empathy for the other living things with whom we have to share a planet.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 11:42 PM

Well said, Lamarca. People not only expect to see critters at Yellowstone, they expect them to be tame, warm, and fuzzy enough to put their children on the backs of bison, etc. to snap pictures.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Genie
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 12:09 AM

Ron, no offense to Grizzlyman, but I'd hardly put Steve Irwin in the same category with him in terms of being naïve about wild animals and acting recklessly.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Joybell
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 12:11 AM

Ron, I'm afraid I maybe didn't put my comment clearly enough - It is Bob Brown who is the gentle, tireless worker for conservation. It is Bob Brown who gives his whole life to the cause. The threat of a punch in the face is not the worst threat made against him, but it's the fact that it was made by someone who was supposed to be on the same side, that offends me.
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 12:18 AM

I heard him use the term "endangered" once when talking about an animal in Florida, investigated, and it wasn't endangered at all. Never watched his show after that. Just a shill for the land-grabbing interests. Whether Green Peace or Halliburton steals your land, it still isn't yours at the end of the day. At least he won't be alive to see his kids crammed into cruddy cities once all the land has been "rescued" from the bad humans. What an ironic end.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 01:54 AM

Man. I just went back and read these posts. Are you folks really this naive? The land-grabbing interests of the "conservation" movement are working hand-in-glove with the fascistic corporate govts taking over the world. They tell you a blue-bellied tick needs to be saved in some swamp and 1,000 people are forced to "donate" their land to the govt. Land-grabbing is land-grabbing. Irwin tried his crap in Texas by calling rattlesnakes endangered on one of his bushit programs, and a friend of mine sent him a snake-head belt buckle as a comment. Irwin was a whore to big-money interests. Maybe he was a greenie at some point, but then he crossed over. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing when he said the pestilential rattlesnakes in my state had to be rescued from the evil humans. Irwin got what he deserved. Outsmarted by a fish, too. How can you put any credence in something told to you by a man who was outsmarted by a fish? There is no difference between Irwin helping the Sierra Club steal swampland in Florida and Dick Cheney helping Halliburton steal real estate in New Orleans.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: John O'L
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 02:54 AM

Crikey


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Keef
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 03:09 AM

Last night I watched a rerun of Steve Irwin's interview on the Andrew Denton show. He came across as a genuine decent human being. Not perfect, he never claimed he was. Some things like the baby dangling he regreted because it looked way more dangerous on film than it really was. He was happy to make big money from hugely popular film and television shows and plowed the great majority of that into conservation work. His enthusiasm for politicians like Bush and Howard is something I would have to agree to disagree on. His remark that he felt like punching Bob Brown in the face, was just being honest. That was how he felt. I doubt that Steve Irwin ever did really punch anyone and if he and Bob Brown had ever had a face to face it would only ever have been a verbal stouch and they would have ended up the best of mates.
Remember the old adage...If you can't say something nice, then please don't say anything at all.
Especially in the case of the recently departed.
Onya Steve...top bloke


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:02 AM

Knowing the risk means knowing you could die from this activity and hoping (calculating?) that you'll be skillful and lucky and survive anyway. Knowing the risk doesn't mean you stop that activity.

The one with the so-called brain thought this and he is dead. The one with the so-called no-brain - (hopefully) is not.

What may be described as a freakish accident would only apply to a normal diver keeping a respectful distance. Those who have seen his shows will know that is highly unlikely that he was staying a respectful distance from this ray.

His shows encouraged the hypocritical idea that what would be risky move for you at home - would not be so to experts like him - who knew what they were doing....But people tend to see and follow the example of what is done and not listen to such rather weak warnings. The result is to encourage this sort of dangerous and foolish interaction.

And with it, as in this case, the rather inevitable end result for the foolhardy humans but which endangers the wildlife just as much. Any form of human interaction with wild animals like bears for example - will only endanger them.

But the main point is that such examples encourage a disrespectful approach to our wild life. A return to one where a macho male has to be seen to be able to tame and subdue animals.   

I remember a visit to one of the US National Parks where a family were feeding the deer, despite being parked in front of a sign explaining all the very good reasons why this was forbidden. When challenged they replied that if 'they' did not want humans to feed the animals - 'they' should not let humans in to the park.

In these parks it is possible to get really close to large animals like elk, moose and bison. It is possible but not at all advisable. Shows like Steve Irwin's - showing one way but advising another - make it difficult to get this message across.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: John O'L
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:12 AM

Well if the message still isn't getting through I don't know what he can try next.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:55 AM

Gosh, some of you people are very bitter. It's always sad when someone loses a life, however it happens. And even more sad for the one's being left behind. Can't you give the ranting a rest and go and do something more useful yourselves?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 08:00 AM

"It's always sad when someone loses a life, however it happens"
Bull! 150,000 people or more die every single day..... Who's got time to care about mostly any of them????

"go and do something more useful yourselves"
That's rich coming from you....

"Last night I watched a rerun"
The best thing about his reruns now, is that all his 'near misses' are all just foreshadowing.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 08:20 AM

Aye - We can't be expected to grieve for all the deaths in the world. I would hope though that when my time comes if anyone has anything nasty to say about me they will at least wait until my family stops grieving. Or celebrating maybe? ;-)

Did someone say earlier if you can't say something possitive don't say anything? Can we try to do that on obituaries at least?

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: thehiker
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 08:39 AM

It came as no surprise to me to hear the Steve Irwin had taken one chance too many and paid the ultimate price.That said he was what he was, a showman who tried to use his popularity for the greater good.
I was not a fan of his programmes I found his on screen style irritating and OTT and a bit stage Aussie. He was no doubt loved and will be missed by his wife and kiddies.
Ar Dheis Dé Go Raibh a Anam


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Wolfgang
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 09:01 AM

For those who have never heard of deadly stingray attacks before:

Fenner, P.J., Williamson, J.A., Skinner, R.A.: Fatal and non-fatal stingray envenomation. Med. J. Aust. 151, 621 (1989)

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 09:02 AM

Of course it's a sad thing and of course he did a lot of good...

but...


Can't you just hear the stingray crying En Garde!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 09:17 AM

"He was no doubt loved and will be missed by his wife and kiddies"

Who isn't?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 09:21 AM

Joy, I don't think you understood me.   The words you used for Bob Brown also applied to Steve Irwin.   If you look hard enough, you will find that there area usually many paths that lead to the same goal.

I'm wondering how many people who have posted here actually watched more than 5 minutes of his shows. I watched quite a bit of his programs with my kids, and I do not recall ever seeing him "feed" animals in the wild. Yes, there were shows that had him in his zoo or one of the habitats he worked with, but I think the message was always to leave animals alone. I recall one show where his young child was running toward a prairie dog burrow and Steve stopped the child with an explanation of why that would be a bad thing.

I viewed his programs as instructional. To blame the idiots who feed deer and wildlife in National Parks on Steve Irwin is ludicrous. I don't buy into statements like that, or that watching violence on TV will turn one into a mass murderer. People still drive and talk on cellphones, or get behind a wheel after having a few drinks. If you are to say that people mimic actions they see on TV, then they would certainly avoid doing dangerous stunts like that. HUMAN nature is to challenge and be self-centered. It is a disgusting habit that not everyone has been able to break.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 10:21 AM

Yes, there were shows that had him in his zoo or one of the habitats he worked with, but I think the message was always to leave animals alone.

What is this based on? Are we watching the same shows? Why then was it called The Crocodile Hunter?

If it was the message to always leave animals alone - he would not have had a show, many animals would have not been stressed to provide cheap TV entertainment and Steve Irwin would still be alive.

And my views of his shows and his value as a conservationist - would be exactly the same as they are now he is dead. I feel the shows had an appeal that was more for thrill seekers and extreme sport enthusiasts and the shows I like best are those where the wild life and their habitat has the starring role - rather than just being used as members of the supporting cast. But as in all things - it is a matter of one's own personal taste.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 10:28 AM

I don't buy into statements like that, or that watching violence on TV will turn one into a mass murderer.

I am not sure that I consider that watching violence on TV will turn anyone into a mass murderer - but that is not what I said.

But many posters here do seem to buy into the idea that Steve Irwin's TV shows were educational in some way - can you?

Or do you consider that none of this TV exposure has any affect on those viewing - one way or the other?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 10:30 AM

Any form of human interaction with wild animals like bears for example - will only endanger them.

No true. Wolves, and many other species, many of which were at the point of extinction, have been saved due to human interaction.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 10:45 AM

No true. Wolves, and many other species, many of which were at the point of extinction, have been saved due to human interaction.

There is a difference between human intevention and human interaction.

Without human intervention I would have never seen wolves hunting elk in Yellowstone Park and the magnificent sight of a California Condor flying free in the Grand Canyon.   

Human intevention (when done well) enables wild animals to be released into the wild and increases their chances of survival.

Human interaction makes wild animals dependendent on humans (or not wary enough) and places them at risk.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 11:18 AM

"What is this based on? Are we watching the same shows?"

Apparently not!!


"But many posters here do seem to buy into the idea that Steve Irwin's TV shows were educational in some way - can you?"

Absolutely!

"Human interaction makes wild animals dependendent on humans (or not wary enough) and places them at risk."

You are correct. The shows that I have seen had him feeding animals that were in captivity (due to a variety of issues) but I do not recall seeing him feeding animals in the wild. The shows I watched pointed out the danger in that.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: thehiker
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 11:22 AM

"He was no doubt loved and will be missed by his wife and kiddies"

Who isn't?
I couldn't say with absolute authority but I'll have a stab at all the child abusing parents and a high proportion of wife beaters?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 11:48 AM

You're ALL wrong! Every last one of you! You are sooooo wrong.   Specially Clinton, who should've never been even born. ;-) And I'm prepared to go on and on and on about it interminably telling you all just how wrong you ARE, and pointing out the fallacies in your arguments, and with any luck that will drive this thread into maximum overdrive and keep it near the top for at least 30 more days until we all hate each other's guts...and Steve Irwin will have been to BLAME FOR ALL OF IT in some strange and obscure way!

Or he won't.

But I have to have lunch first, okay?

Hold that thought.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 11:52 AM

One of our nameless guests suggested that the group on this thread is gullible because they support the work of someone who is environmentally focused, and he/she suggests those groups are all corrupt. The naivete is on the part of that guest, for lumping all parties in this lurid dance as the same.

The spectrum of "environmental" organizations (and pseudo-environmental) organizations is vast. About 65 years ago (give or take, I haven't looked it up) Aldo Leopold was a founding member of the Wilderness Society, aimed at preserving wild land for wildlife, but Leopold was also a hunter, and he wouldn't have placed restrictions against hunting on public lands unless there were management reasons (such as scarcity or disease). Many other groups are now in existence, with varying degrees of protections built into their charters (Leopold's group may not have been the first, but it is the example I choose to give.) Then you have entirely NON-environmental groups, that are never-the-less lumped with environmental groups. I have in mind here PETA (People for the "ethical" treatment of animals, quotes are mine) and the Humane Society. Dealing with animals may or may not constitute environmental activity. You should see the scandalous way in which groups like the ASPCA and the Humane Society essentially scare people into making donations. (disclaimer: I donate locally to the Humane Society, not to any national office, in hopes my money stays here and does good for local pets.) And then you have true eco-terrorist groups like Dave Foreman's Earth First, "Monkey Wrenching" with deadly results.

To suggest that one person isn't as environmentally "sound" as another because they disagree with another environmentalist suggests that all environmentalists agree with each other on goals and strategies and work together. Nothing could be further from the case. And the public is largely clueless how to sort these various organizations into their respective categories. I suspect the IRS has a better idea of what these groups are up to than their hired PR/media folks do.

Steve Irwin's work will stand on its own. He was an icon in the field in which he worked, and I think in the long view he is going to be seen as a caretaker of wildlife despite his interactions with it and any disagreements about how to conduct his business.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 11:59 AM

I think that is a very generous assessment, Maggie. But, IMO, it has much truth in it.

Little Hawk ....... I love ya, man.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: gnu
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 12:59 PM

I agree totally with LH. I am going for lunch as well.

RIP, Steve.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 01:17 PM

I'm interacting with some pork right now. Polish Kilbasa.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 02:18 PM

Videotape of Steve Irwin's last moments pulling a stingray barb from his chest show no evidence he provoked the animal, officials said Tuesday, as the world mourned the loss of the charismatic Australian naturalist.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 02:51 PM

Videotape of Steve Irwin's last moments pulling a stingray barb from his chest show no evidence he provoked the animal, officials said Tuesday, as the world mourned the loss of the charismatic Australian naturalist.

I am sure that is the case. I suspect will be asked next to accept that the no-brain sting ray actually climbed on board the boat and speared poor old Steve when he was off guard and knocking back a tinny......

Just because the film may not show it - does not of course mean that it did not happen. Perhaps we could at least agree that if he did not stress this sting ray - it would not have been the usual Steve Irwin style of presentation?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 02:57 PM

"Perhaps we could at least agree that if he did not stress this sting ray - it would not have been the usual Steve Irwin style of presentation? "

Shambles - just because you have an opinion does not make it fact.

Your idea of "stress" does not seem to be what Irwin actually did. at least not on the programs I've watched.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Genie
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 04:02 PM

What Ron Olesko said. Both of his last posts.

I don't think Irwin's shows encouraged people to disrespect wildlife or take crazy chances around them any more than watching Circe du Soleil encourages people to swing aloft from trapezes.   

And, while fatal stingray attacks are not unheard of, they really are the exception - not the rule, the way the bites of some snakes are.    I hardly think it was "inevitable" that Irwin would die in this manner.   It's a bit like a racecar driver getting killed in a public roadway crash at 30 MPH instead of going out in a fiery crash on the speedway.

Let's not forget that other wildlife researchers such as Dian Fosse and Asa Johnson were killed by 2-legged critters who disapproved of their activities. It's not always your research subjects that end up being your undoing.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Genie
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 04:08 PM

Little Hawk,
Not sure if it's your intent, but you crack me up!!
LOL

Genie


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Genie
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 04:09 PM

And, Ron O., I should have said I agreed with your last THREE posts.
(You posted another while I was typing.)

G


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 04:19 PM

Oh, yes, that is my intent, Genie...glad you got a laugh out of it.

And you're STILL wrong. All of you. Specially Shambles. And Clinton. Why those two don't move in together and simply give up on the rest of us is a mystery to me. ;-)


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 04:45 PM

Because they would fight over who was going to sign the lease first...

Talk about "The Odd Couple"


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:43 PM

Oh, yes, I am SURE the video was tinkered with, in the frantic moments right after he was struck, before it was ever released to the authorities. And, I am equally SURE the professionals who were with him don't know a damn thing about wildlife and provocation. Seeing truly is NOT believing.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Wolfgang
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 06:08 PM

I suspect will be asked next to accept that the no-brain sting ray actually climbed on board the boat and speared poor old Steve (Shambles)

Not in this case, but it has happened (kind of): The article I have referenced in my last post (Med J Aust. 1989 Dec 4-18;151(11-12):621-5.) reports that an Australian boy on a boattrip was stung twice by a stingray jumping out of the water and died 6 days later. He should have known that boat trips can be dangerous.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 07:42 PM

Your idea of "stress" does not seem to be what Irwin actually did.

Stress can be a cumulative process. Each stressor by itself may not be significant, but when they affect the animal sequentially or simultaneously, they may push it over the threshold toward illness or death.

What are some of these stressors? Handling by humans, strange sights, noises and smells, unfamiliar foods or lack of food and water, restraint, injuries, heat, cold, light, and the presence of people's pets.


The above is from the following site where you can read the entire article.

http://chintiminiwildlife.org/Rehab/Injured/Understand.htm


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 08:09 PM

" What are some of these stressors? Handling by humans, strange sights, noises and smells, unfamiliar foods or lack of food and water, restraint, injuries, heat, cold, light, and the presence of people's pets."

Translation - you never know when your time is up.   

I think we all wish we could eliminate stress from our lives. Those stress factors are not just for owls and deer, they are the same factors that impact humans as well.

I guess my earlier point still stands - your idea of stress does not add up to what Irwin did.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 08:14 PM

It might interest you, Roger (but probably won't, since you already know everything)to know that what you refer to as stressing animals, may well be true in the case of snakes, tho' they did calm down quite quickly as a rule, when he handled them.

But with specific reference to crocodiles, if you simply throw food into their ponds, you will have fat, unfit animals, which will not live too long. Steve Irwin explained this very clearly in one of his programs.

The so called shows he put on at feeding times were designed to make the crocodile work for his food in the same manner as he would in the wild. So, far from causing him stress in order to show off, he was in fact taking care of the animal's welfare, and if this made enjoyable viewing, what's wrong with that.

He earned the name "Crocodile Hunter" by going round Australia relocating crocs which were causing problems near human dwellings, which prevented their being shot, and protected the human population at the same time. Alligators in the US are not so lucky, since only those less than five feet long are relocated. The larger ones are euthanased.

Crocs can travel enormous distances overland in search of new water, and I suspect that you would be very glad to see someone like Steve if you lived by a lake and a croc decided to settle in fifty yards from where your pets and children played.

The crocs at Australia Zoo are, as I understand it, the very few that for good reasons could not be released into the wild.

You seem to have disliked both Steve Irwin and his TV series, which leads me to believe that you watched very little of his output, so could it be that you are arguing from a position of some ignorance, merely for the sake of argument?

I have often disagreed with your opinions, but this is the first time that I have been disgusted by the total lack of charity and humanity that you (along with several others on this thread) have displayed.

For Christ's sake man, he has only just died, and his family are probably too shocked to have even started grieving. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 08:22 PM

Thank god, when my mother passes on,(it may be soon) none of you people will argue about whether or not she was stupid enough to have caused her own death,in a public forum.

signed,
disgusted


Another good sould lost in Steve Irwin. So sad...


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 10:18 PM

I cannot believe this thread is still running. I liked the man and believed he knew what it took to get a message across in this day and age. Stilly, Ron, Don, and many others tend to agree while a number of you don't. For those who don't I have seen some well thought out arguments and I suppose we could continue those discussions and probably agree to disagree....a well tested Mudcat scenario.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 11:25 PM

It seems a shame that he didn't get to reach Aussie Man-of-action Elder-Statesman status the way Paul Hogan has. Too bad.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 11:51 PM

Larry King did a good job, I thought, of having Jeff Corwin, Jack Hanna, and Phillipe Cousteau (Jaques's grandson) on his show, tonight, talking about this. Cousteau was filming with Irwin, though he wasn't in the water at the time of the accident. To a man, they all stressed Irwin's conservation efforts, as well as his educational programs, and his being the same friend/father/husband off camera as well as on camera. They said he always took time to talk with fans; considered and treated his staff as family; and, was a genuinely sincere fellow.

King also had the head of the aqaurium in Atlanta on to talk about sting-rays.

According to what was said, Leno will do a tribute to Irwin tonight.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 11:55 PM

I suspect he just catapulted himself there when he wrenched out the stingray spine. It is the hard way to do it. I was comparing him to Hogan when I discussed this with my son yesterday. Yet I think Hogan practices/practiced such broad slapstick humor that the "man-of-action" sobriquet would be more suited to Irwin.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 12:24 AM

With respect, Irwin was a whore. He continued the dastardly work begun by Theodore Roosevelt in the U.S. Sure it's nice to preserve Yellowstone and all that, but the land Teddy Roosevelt took was just that...taken. For the bears. Those cute "Teddy" bears. What a massive PR stunt. The federal govt of the US stole millions of acres of land and convinced the public it was for their own good. And over the past hundred years Americans have been trained to become all gooey when "the wildlife" is mentioned. I get all gooey when I'm gutting a deer, and that's about it.

In Austin, there was some bird that was "endangered" about 20 years ago, and the city council stole lots of land to protect it, then a new "scientific study" came out and said the bird was doing alright after all. Motels and golf courses are now on that environmentally "sensitive" land. The people of Austin were bamboozled. Flim-flammed by the people who would develop the real estate once they left the city council.

Irwin's death at the butt-end of a fish with superior intelligence makes me wonder how many people he helped drive off their land with his phony "endangered" statements. Those folks must have been dumber than fish, I guess. At least the fish put an end to its exploiter. And someone mentioned Cousteau back there...wasn't he Vichy French? That's how I remember him, at least. So it'll be with Irwin. Good riddance.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Keef
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 02:05 AM

Guest
With respect
You are a Fuckwit


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 06:27 AM

For those who don't I have seen some well thought out arguments and I suppose we could continue those discussions and probably agree to disagree....a well tested Mudcat scenario.

Sadly one that has long been replaced by another well tested Mudcat senario. Where even on the rare occasions when a poster does bother to explain why they may not agree - it is now thought acceptable to also make some personal judgement of the poster's worth. Or indeed to post only this.

For it now seems to be thought just much too much fun to resist - when posters express different views to you - to call them names, question their mental health, speculate on the size of their gentitals, the state of their bowel movements and tell them to F***-***.

I can think where this example of posting behaviour came from - or why it is now allowed to be thought acceptable posting behaviour. Perhaps it was the poster who came up with words like 'fuckwit' and first encouraged their use them in this manner?

Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: catspaw49 - PM
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 11:25 PM

A dipshit is the offspring of a jerkwad and a fucknuts. It's in the fourth tier of profane vocabulary.

Spaw


It really is still OK to simply be seen to agree to disagree.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 11:53 AM

Stainton (his manager) said Irwin was in his element in the Outback, but that he and Irwin had talked about the sea posing threats the star wasn't used to.

"If ever he was going to go, we always said it was going to be the ocean," Stainton said. "On land he was agile, quick-thinking, quick-moving and the ocean puts another element there that you have no control over."


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 02:20 PM

"It really is still OK to simply be seen to agree to disagree."

You are right about that Roger, but it's not your opinions with which I take issue.

It is your abysmal lack of charitable human feelings and common decency. This is my opinion, based on your diatribes aginst a man newly dead, about whom you know nothing except the persona projected in a series of TV programs.

You have no more knowledge of Steve and his family in real life than you have of the posters on this forum.

You have no idea how many of his family and friends may, or may not, visit or even be members of this forum, and yet you and the guest with the "land grab" conspiracy theory have no compunction about causing extra distress.

To paraphrase a Shambles favourite, perhaps you would agree that this was not the best time to post only to mount a personal attack on a man no longer able to defend himself?

Now......where have I heard that before?

Don T.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,cheyenne crousore
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 06:44 PM

To Steve's Children: I know how it feels to lose a parent. My mother died when I was 7. I hope you guys will be okay. I like your daddy's shows, they are great. That is the only show I watch on animal planet except for America's Funniest Animals. God bless you !    Love, Cheyenne Crousore age 11 Anderson, Indiana


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,jake
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 07:00 PM

How terrible is it for Steve to go!!!!!! His shows are the only thing I watched on TV. I didn't know stingrays were that bad I swam with about 20-30 of them in the carribeans and nobody there got stung.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 08:03 PM

Dear Shambles,
I for one will greatly miss seeing Steve Irwin. My wife and children will as well. How dare you take an obituary thread and spew out such vitriolic nonsense. Who do you think you are? Are you the one that is greater than the rest of us? Are YOU the missing link?   I highly doubt it. An accidental death - a grieving family - 2 children without a father and many many others saddened by his passing - and you take the time to type what you have posted? THIS is what you do with your time? please re-read your statements and apologize to Steve. I for one will go back to watching my Steve Irwin videos and LOVING it!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 09:00 PM

Irwin aided and abetted the land-grabbers, and in the end he ends up with a 6-foot hole in the ground.   Such is life. And death. He valued animals over people. He won't be missed, except by Queen Phillip and that land-stealing nature conservancy organization. Now they'll need to find a new mouthpiece. I can't believe this thread is still running. I know it's hard to re-assess heroes, but Irwin probably displaced and broke up THOUSANDS of families around the world. Bad man. Good animal, but a bad man.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: GUEST,??
Date: 06 Sep 06 - 09:21 PM

No wonder the 9pm troll chose to remain anonymous. The ass is so full of crap it is coming out of its ears. Not one shred of evidence and it makes crap up. That troll is just another fool who drank the kool aid.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 12:05 AM

I think GUEST 2100 is trying to stir the pot, and obviously doesn't believe what he or she is saying otherwise would have a 'name'. I believe that Jacques Cousteau at the very least claimed he was with the resistance during WWII and probably was. While we're on the subject of fatalities, one of Cousteau's sons died landing an amphibious aircraft. Life is a risk whether you're mountain climbing or lying on the sofa letting your arteries clog (or brain clot in the case of GUEST 2100).
Steve Irwin died doing what he wanted, and harming nobody (to say the very least). A co-worker just flew back to Alaska from the US East Coast, and told me that's all anyone on the airplane was talking about. When so many people feel poorer for the loss, it indicates that Steve was doing something right.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 01:04 AM

Right. You folks convinced me. Irwin was a great man. Look at all the people he helped drive off those family farms and ranches so they could become contributing members of society. He helped swell the ranks of crack whores and drug dealers, and that took some effort, by golly. Fine man. Fewer farms, more crack whores. Put it on his gravestone. What a guy.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 01:19 AM

Looking for a gold star?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 01:22 AM

LONDON (JTA) -- The biographer of Jacques Cousteau has uncovered evidence that the late underwater explorer harbored anti-Semitic attitudes.

A letter written 58 years ago by Cousteau during the wartime rule of the pro-Nazi Vichy government was published last week in the French daily Le Monde after being found by the biographer.

Cousteau, then a 31-year-old naval officer, wrote to a friend on May 1, 1941, to say that he and his family could find nowhere suitable to live in Marseilles.

"There will be no decent apartment available until we have kicked out all these ignoble yids who are burdening us," wrote Cousteau, who died two years ago.

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/11534/edition_id/221/format/html/displaystory.html

Cousteau killed sea-life for documentaries, admits son

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=39&objectid=3561274
His name was indelibly linked to a wonderful technicolour world of marine life. But the legendary French explorer, Captain Jacques Cousteau, mistreated and even killed sea creatures while staging scenes for his films, according to a shocking new book by his son.

But Jean-Michel Cousteau, 65, who participated in many of his father's adventures, said such behaviour - although "intolerable" - was normal practice among wildlife film-makers in the 1960s and 1970s.

Captain Cousteau's reputation as one of the "fathers of environmentalism" should not be thrown overboard because of his occasional ill-treatment of dolphins, killer-whales and fish, first exposed by a US TV documentary in the 1980s, the younger Cousteau says.

"We wouldn't consider it for a second now. For him the ends sometimes justified the means. Isn't the important point that, at the end of the day, he served the cause of animals?"

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=39&objectid=3561274

(Years ago I read a book which described some actions in WW2, and one chapter was about the sinking of the French fleet. Had to be done so it couldn't be used against the Allies. Cousteau fired on Allied planes to protect the ships. Might've killed your grandaddy or mine. And that Jewish thing...never heard about that. He seems to have had the Nazi mentality though, if "the ends justifies the means." Did Irwin ever go through controversies like that? I think he had a bad hair day once...something like that, something pretty major for the TV generation).


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 01:29 AM

No star. Just the truth, Little Hawk. Govt operatives come in all forms. The good ones smile at you on TV and get you to cut your own throat. Irwin did a world of damage to the RIGHT of private property ownership. Because of him, millions now thing govts are better "stewards" of the land. Thieving, lying govts. Irwin helped them, and I didn't force him to. He sold out on his own. Turned his back on his own SPECIES even. I've never given any thought to how foul a crime that is, but it's got to rank right up there with...who knows. My work is done here.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: suzi
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 01:51 AM

Why all this hatred on the passing of Steve....so many sad people around...???? R.I.P. Steve...and love and blessings to his family. x


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 01:52 AM

Don't know about LH, but I wish I had one of those little 'poonies right about now. GUEST 0129 needs to get the antidote to whatever he's full of.

When a swimming accident in Australia turns into a tale of Vichy France we have clearly gone into lala land.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Keef
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 02:08 AM

Dear Guest
Since you are such a defender of private property ownership you ought to know that Steve Irwin spent most of his earnings to purchase land for wildlife habitat.
Here is part of the transcript from the Andrew Denton Show interview.
STEVE IRWIN: We... You know, easily the greatest threat to the wildlife globally is the destruction and annihilation of habitat. So I've gone, "Right, well, how do I fix that? Well, making a quid here. People are keen to give me money over there. I'll buy it. I'll buy habitat." And I reckon the only thing wrong... Now, how's this? The only thing wrong with, you know, wildlife in Australia is that I don't own it. I could... Imagine how many kangaroos and crocodiles I could have if I owned Australia? It's, um... My wife is an American so she's got this, er... She's, um...you know, she's a good capitalist. And, er, she's very clever with money. Me, I'm not that clever and I don't really give a rip, but, er, she is. And, um, so whenever we get a...a, um...enough cash and enough...and a...and a chunk of land that we're passionate about, bang, we buy it. And what we're trying to do is we're trying to set an example to the world that, um, every single person can make a difference. Particularly those in the, um, in the political arena, um, those that have zoological facilities, any, you know, multinationals, any millionaires. They can all make a difference by buying chunks of land. And, in addition to that, every single person - man, woman and child, no matter what walk of life you're in, whether you're a, um, a fisherman, a janitor, um, STEVE IRWIN, the Croc Hunter - you can make a difference in wildlife by simply not purchasing wildlife products. Because today, Andrew, the wildlife perpetrators, they're hard to spot, mate. But what it is, these wildlife perpetrators now kill animals and call it 'sustainable use'. That, "Oh, let's kill crocs, turn them into belts and that's sustainable," you know? That isn't sustainable. Since when has killing wildlife saved anything? So, I'm a wildlife warrior through and through. And buying land means: A. that we're going to be able to get animals back if, and or when they become highly endangered; and B. getting out into the world, taking you, the audience, with me, having an adventure, and making it exciting. Otherwise, you're stuck with the demographics that, say, David Attenborough's got which is a bit smaller than what I got. And changing people's opinions on wildlife. How's this? For the first time in history, mate, I've just been involved with an issue where people were worried about the welfare of a shark. How's that? For the first time in history. Yay!

Full transcript here for those interested (although the Strine does make it a bit of a hard read!)

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/enoughrope/transcripts/s960998.htm


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 03:54 AM

All of you mean-spirited negatives would benefit from a visit to Australia Zoo to try to find out what the man was really about. Fantastic bloke, he put so much joy into the world. I was gutted when I heard, and feel so for his family and those around (including my niece who goes to school with Bindi).


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 09:20 AM

"Look at all the people he helped drive off those family farms and ranches so they could become contributing members of society"

Anyone with half a brain would back up their claims with some evidence.   Please share with us some proof of your statements. If this is any basis in fact to your anonymous claims, you should not act like a coward.

Just because someone writes something on the internet does not make it true.   Your messages speak more of a jealousy that you could not match the character of such a person. Instead of doing something constructive with your life you sit around making up crap about others on the internet, at least that is the way it is looking to all of us who read your ramblings.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Tweed
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 09:23 AM

RIP Steve Irwin:
A Good guy who still had some balls.

Shambles, Clinton,& Nameless Guests:
Dipshit fuckwit faultfinders.   What a bunch of pantloads. What the fuck is wrong with you guys.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: suzi
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 09:46 AM

Here, here...Tweed.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 09:51 AM

Just reading Don's letter about crocodiles in Oz and aligators in America. I read the thread out of interest - never saw the show, as I can remember.

What tolerant people you must be - having these huge things wandering round. people go apeshit if they see a rat within 200 yards of where they live in England. and quite right too.

i never watched this bloke, but he seems to have been on the side of the angels from what you say.

let's just all agree, its sad he's dead. He was a young man with a future, and the future is no more, and that's sad.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Becca72
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 10:21 AM

Tweed, I'll second that!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 12:55 PM

That's "Hear, hear!" Suzi. It is short for "Hear what the man is saying, all ye present!"


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 12:58 PM

Germaine Greer has waded into this discussion with a letter to the editor, but even she isn't as hard on Irwin as some of our dissenters here.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 02:11 PM

So Irwin was into real estate. Figures. Bet he got some good deals, what with fronting for the land-grabbing machinery worldwide. And all he ends up with is a hole in the chest and a hole in the ground. Makes you wonder if selling out your species is worth it.

If you folks were REALLY into nature and all that, you'd be concerned about genetic engineering and cross-species gene splicing. Did Irwin ever address that? His snow leopard in the swamps of Florida (or whatever that misinformation was) was the last bit of fluff I watched him in, and that was years ago. Did he ever talk about the spider-goat farm in upstate New York and the cockroach genes in tomatoes? If not, then he was a phony and didn't give a damn about nature. I kind of doubt he did shows on those topics, because then his govt backers wouldn't air the things and he would've ended up perforated much sooner.

Genetic change has always been slow. Glacial. But now they put insect genes in your vegetables to give them longer shelf-life. So it's not just cross-species contamination which is occurring, it's cross-KINGDOM contamination. Chimeras are being created and released into the environment daily. THAT is the real nature issue at the moment, and if Irwin had you focused on whooping cranes or horny toads, then he may have been beyond merely anti-human. He may have been downright diabolical. You folks had me convinced he'd done his deeds for the good of the crack whores, and now I have my doubts again.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,MARISA
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 02:20 PM

R.I.P TO STEVE IRWIN HE WAS A GOOD MAN AND IT CAME TO A SURPRIZE HES DEAD HE WAS LIKE A HERO TO ANIMALS IT NOT GOING TO BE THE SAME WITH OUT HIM AND TO PEOPLE WHO ARE LEAVEING THESE MESSAGE SHOW SOME REPECT TO HIS WIFE AND KIDS R.I.P STEVE IRWIN YOU WILL BE MISSED AND ALWAYS IN OUR HEARTS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,???
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 02:24 PM

"You folks had me convinced he'd done his deeds for the good of the crack whores, and now I have my doubts again. "

Your opinion does not matter. You are a troll, a bible thumper at that.

"If you folks were REALLY into nature and all that, you'd be concerned about genetic engineering and cross-species gene splicing. Did Irwin ever address that?"

Yes he did.

Get a life, or at least get some fresh air.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Becca72
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 03:37 PM

Guest ???, It's hard for someone to get fresh air with their head planted so firmly up their arse...


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 04:45 PM

I wondered why and how it was we were getting so many nutcases dropping by until I typed "Steve Irwin obit" into Google and found us in the top 20...about 17 or 18.

That's pathetic

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 05:09 PM

It looks like a lot of outsiders are visiting Mudcat and are posting just because they can. It doesn't help that our home-grown wackos have tilted the trajectory of this thread so far into La La land.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 08:31 PM

This is why moderates don't like "liberals." Liberals are such control freaks. You folks act all tolerant, then someone strays away from groupthink and it's baaaa baaaa baaaaad boy. Damn those outsiders! They're getting in here! Baaaad outsiders! Shut it down! Shut it down!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 08:46 PM

no there does happen to be a sort of attempt at civilised behaviour on this site. when the yahoos break in occasionally - you suddenly get a glimpse of the sterile wasteland humanity has turned the rest of the web into.

Like WH Auden said

the glacier knocks in the cupboard
the desert sighs in the bed
and the crack in the teacup opens
the lane to the land of the dead

we have no reason to be ashamed of preferring humour, argument and discussion to abuse, rudeness and mindless crudity.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: RichM
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 08:47 PM

Always it has to get political... from folks with anger hatred or envy in their minds.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 10:37 PM

Sometimes it's no more than a tween-ager exercising the right to be beastly. Don't draw political meaning from insensitivity and plain old cussedness.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 11:08 PM

Mudcat is a site you can always come to when you want to engage in meaningful debate and have critical analysis focused on your arguments. The members are masters of semantics and use the term "fuckwit" sparingly, as true philosophers should.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,Simon
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 02:28 PM

I uderstand just before his death he was singing a beach boys song
barb barb barb barb barb a ray


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: freda underhill
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 04:55 PM

whatever, he's now in a better place..
steve in heaven


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,pete
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 06:34 PM

I'm a big fan of steve irwin and I love his programs and respect his work. However, someone showed me this joke the other day and you have to admit its pretty good, and no worse than some of the other comments up there ^^.

Steve Irwin was doing an interview when he was asked what is your favourite TV program. He replied "Thunderbirds is good but I've always had a place in my heart for Stingray".


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: gnu
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 01:13 PM

Nothing wrong with jokes. Steve would probably have had a great laugh over them... hopefully, he is.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 05:01 PM

From the Fort Worth Star-Telegram
Posted on Sat, Sep. 09, 2006

Critics are cranky, but, crikey, he led a good life

By Jim Reeves, Star-Telegram Staff Writer

The word slipped out of my mouth before I knew it was even on the tip of my tongue, blurted out at the sight of a huge load of giant round hay bales rolling down the road in front of me the other day.

"Crikey!"

If you're a horseman or cattleman, you understand. Thanks to the drought, that hay looked like gold bullion to me. Don't know that I'd ever said that word out loud before and it came out of nowhere, but it seemed to fit the moment and the mood.

I guess that was for you, Steve Irwin. May you rest in peace, surrounded forever by all your animal friends that preceded you to that Great Nature Preserve in the Sky.

You would have had to spend the last week in a cave not to know that Irwin, aka the "Crocodile Hunter," died of a stingray barb to the heart earlier this week. And you'd have to be an idiot not to understand that the animal kingdom lost one of its most stalwart knights when Irwin died.

There are some, however, who just didn't get it and still don't.

They saw Irwin's simple, Crocodile Dundee television persona, or watched him jump on a crocodile's back or grab a giant python by the tail and wrote him off as an attention-seeking goofball with a death wish. Maybe he was, in a way. But he was much more than that, too. He loved animals -- and life -- with a passion he never bothered to conceal. And he wanted to share his joy with the world.

"Besides putting himself recklessly in the path of creatures' natural instincts, hyperventilating 'Crikey' every so often, and mesmerizing awe-stricken kids crouched in front of TV sets -- what exactly did Irwin, lauded as a conservationist, do?" Chicago Sun-Times columnist Rick Telander, someone I sincerely respect, asked in print a couple of days ago.

Beyond making people aware of the natural world, Telander wrote, did Irwin really prompt them to "make the leap from voyeurism to animal conservation?"

"The simple fact is," he wrote, "Irwin's show was an inevitable melding of Jackass meets Wild Kingdom for the short-attention-span set."

As Irwin liked to say of testy crocs, "My, he's cranky, ain't he?"

Telander went on to write that he dislikes circus animal acts (me, too) and zoos (I'm lukewarm there) and will never swim in the Gulf of Mexico again after a painful childhood episode with a jellyfish.

But what Rick and a few others clearly are underestimating is the worldwide impact Irwin had on spreading the message of animal conservation. His The Crocodile Hunter documentaries on Discovery Communications' Animal Planet reportedly attracted a global audience of 200 million, some 10 times the population of Australia.

According to Reuters, news of his death clogged Web sites around the world and, at one point, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's Web site had to shut down Monday. He was such an icon in Australia, he was among those selected to greet President Bush when he visited there a couple of years ago. Naturally, Irwin showed up wearing his trademark khaki shirt, shorts and jungle boots.

He was almost as popular in this country, which is why ESPN selected him to film that hilarious promo in which he wrestles the Florida Gators' mascot and appeals to one of the SportsCenter personalities to "give us a hand here."

Sure, he was a wild man on TV. That's why we watched, and he knew it. If he'd tiptoed up behind a bush and pointed the camera at a 15-foot crocodile from 20 yards away, would we have kept tuning in? He knew he was putting his life at risk, but he lived for the thrill, adored the outdoors and loved spreading his message about saving the animals.

"I consider myself a wildlife warrior," he said in a 2003 interview with Australia's The Age. "My mission is to save the world's most endangered species." And he put his money where his mouth was. He bought large tracts of land in his homeland of Australia and other countries and turned them into animal parks. He told his viewers that they, too, could make a difference.

"He was knowledgeable and seemed to care passionately about wildlife," Dr. Leo Smith, an expert on venomous fishes at the American Museum of Natural History in Manhattan, told The New York Times. "He took a very outgoing approach that made people less fearful of sharks and other mean things out there."

Irwin hated that wild animals were being killed simply for their hides, their ivory or their fur. "Since when has killing a wild animal, eating it or wearing it, ever saved a species?" he asked in an article in an August issue of The Australian Women's Weekly. "There are people who butt out their cigarettes in gorilla-paw ashtrays, with wastepaper baskets that were once elephant feet, who have ivory ornaments...who wear cheetah fur. Don't buy these things! Then there'll be no market and the animals won't be killed....Why must we kill wild animals to satisfy the macabre taste of some rich person?"

It's a good question, folks. And it takes people like Steve Irwin to get our attention with it. What did he do? He loved wild animals -- sometimes the wilder the better -- and he shared that love with the world. He did it in a way that kept us gasping, laughing and coming back for more.

He even understood that his boyish exuberance might kill him right there in front of the cameras, just as it happened. "My number one rule is to keep that camera rolling," he once said. "Even if it's shaky or slightly out of focus, I don't give a rip. Even if a big old alligator is chewing me up I want to go down and go, 'Crikey!' just before I die. That would be the ultimate for me."

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if, as he pulled that stingray barb out of his heart, he didn't look at the camera and say exactly that.

"Crikey!"

He was a showman, and a wildlife warrior, to the very end.

IN THE KNOW

In Irwin's memory

All donations and contributions in Steve Irwin's memory should be made to the Wildlife Warriors Fund at www.wildlifewarriors.org.au, according to Irwin's official Web site. His Web site ( www.crocodilehunter.com), also says, "All donations will be...applied directly to saving animals in the wild."


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Gurney
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 09:25 PM

A bad week for Aussie heroes. Peter Brock, too.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,David McWilliams
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 09:31 PM

Not just Aussie heroes. England's Eckholt Cunningly met an untimely end this week as well.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 11:33 PM

Animal Planet has been running a marathon of his shows all weekend. I watched a fascinating one on penguins of Antarctica...he really knew his stuff and I LOVE his enthusiasm. If we'd had "educational" films like his when I was in school, we wouldn't have fallen asleep so often to the drone of uninspired narrators!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 12:31 PM

I've been watching them too - brillant!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 09:58 PM

It turns out he's a hero for people as well as animals--did you see the show which deals with his rescue of an American diver who at that point was waiting to die? It happened while Steve was doing a documentary of whales and sea lions, I believe-- off Baja California.

And from the footage and the explanations by both Steve and his wife, it appears his son Bob was in no danger at the time of that over-hyped incident--he did not in fact dangle him over a crocodile.

The media had a field day with that one--a classic tempest in a teapot.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Sep 06 - 12:15 AM

I turned on a little of the programing of his programs today--if he were hosting a fishing program with the kind of behavior tips he was offering fishermen would be all over themselves to listen. This guy knew crocs like Cesar Millan knows dogs. It's all in loving your subject and watching it carefully for a long time.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 09:27 PM

The Steve Irwin game.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 09:38 PM

There is a GRAND tribute poem at Australia Zoo written and read by Rupert McCall, Radio4BC Brisbane. Just click on the picture of Steve to hear it. Well worth listening to. "All the crocs are crying..."


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 07:33 AM

Free with the October edition of BBC Wildlife Magazine was a feature on the (undoubted) wildlife delights of a visit to The Cayman Islands.

This was a swish glossy pull-out that I suspect would have been in preparation long before the sad death of Steve Irwin.

The cover photo is of about 20 sting rays taken in the North Sound at a shallow sand-bank they are calling Stingray City. The headline caption is SINGRAY CITY Get Closer Than Ever Before.

Perhaps as a result of the manner of Steve Irwin's death - vistors to the Cayman Islands and elswhere, will not be so keen to take up this invitation and be content to view the sting rays (and other wildlife) from a respectful distance?

If so that will be a good thing.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 08:16 AM

In fact, the opposite has happened--unfortunately. Many rays have been killed since Steve's death--totally the opposite of what he would have wished. And some scrupleless scum of the earth has invented a game whereby you can play his wife killing rays.

On a happier note, I believe there is to be a Steve Irwin marathon--on Animal Planet--from 12 noon to 2 AM this Sunday. Shows and interviews. Definitely sounds worthwhile.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 12:53 PM

Is it true that some brain-deads have been mutilating sting rays in revenge?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 01:02 PM

No, Jim. It doesn't appear to be true.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 02:44 PM

I trust the Washington Post on this one--that's my source. If you have a source refuting it, please state it.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 02:50 PM

Obviously no one can "prove" it's in twisted "revenge." Maybe it's just since rays have suddenly a higher profile. But it does appear that many rays have been killed in the days just after Steve's death.

Which is obviously the opposite of what he would want.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 03:05 PM

Sorry Ron, I looked, but couldn't find anything. What was the title of the article?

I still can't (Google news search). Anybody who watched Irwin's show and/or believed in his message wouldn't do such a thing. Week after week, he showed animals trying to kill him and called them 'beautiful'. He emphasized that this was their nature. No true fan of his would kill an animal because another of its kind reacted per its nature and accidentally killed him.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 03:10 PM

It's true-no real fan of Steve's would do this. But all of a sudden rays were in the headlines. I think it's quite plausible that some twisted individuals would do this. I wish it weren't so likely.

Nobody will be happier than I will if this proves to be a myth. It really depressed me when I read it.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 03:39 PM

I'll look for the article--I think I probably still have it at work--but I didn't realize this would be an issue--so may have tossed the paper.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 03:49 PM

I heard the same story on the news, Ron and Jeri. Read it in the paper as well. It occurred in Australia and they reported finding a number of large rays that had been killed.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 04:58 PM

I read it on google news a few days ago, but cannot find it now. It also said fisherman who snare them in their nets, while going after other fish, often cut the tail off. I I remember correctly, they thought that might account for some of the mutilated corpses found recently.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 05:26 PM

The question obviously is whether there was a spike in ray deaths immediately following Steve's death.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 05:43 PM

It must be pretty obvious that it is all those 'crying crocs' that are seeking retribution and taking the law into their own hands (or teeth).


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 05:58 PM

Whatever you say, Shambles. We wouldn't have expected less of you.

Returning to the program now in progress--maybe a possibility is that because rays suddenly have a high profile, their deaths and mutilations are being reported more--but there's not necessarily an increase. Of course we hope that mutilating or killing rays is not SOP.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 08:19 PM

Oh well, did anyone listen to the recitation of the poem> Whadya think?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 08:15 AM

The meaning of the term 'crocodile tears'.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/104800.html

Meaning

To weep crocodile tears is to put on an insincere show of sorrow.

Origin

The allusion is to the ancient notion that crocodiles weep while devouring their prey. Crocodiles do indeed have lachrymal glands and produce tears to lubricate the eyes as humans do. They don't cry though. Whatever emotion they experience when finding and devouring prey we can be certain it isn't remorse.

There are reports of references in French that date the belief back to 1230, although I've not been able to confirm those.

The myth appeared in print in 'The Voyage and Travail of Sir John Maundeville', circa 1400:

"In that contre ... ben gret plentee of Cokadrilles ... Theise Serpentes slen men, and thei eten hem wepynge."
(In that country - there are many crocodiles - These serpents slay men, and then, weeping, eat them)

All of the very early citations refer directly to the myth of crocodiles weeping. It isn't until the 16th century that we find 'crocodile tears' used with our current meaning. Edmund Grindal, Archbishop of York and of Canterbury was the first to use the phrase with the implication of insincerity, in 1563, (re-published in Strype's 'Life of Grindal', 1711):

"I begin to fear, lest his humility ... be a counterfeit humility, and his tears crocodile tears."


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: John O'L
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 12:11 AM

Watched the memorial service on TV this morning. It wasn't overly mawkish, but I bet there wasn't a dry eye in the Crocoseum. I thought his dad said the best thing: "Don't grieve for Steve, grieve for the animals - they've lost their best mate."


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: John O'L
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 12:19 AM

Oz 'Catters the ABC is replaying the service this evening 6.00pm. Worth watching


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 12:25 AM

By the way, kat, I *did* read the memorial essay. Moving.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 01:40 PM

Thanks, John. I read Bindi's words on google news, today. I'll bet there wasn't a dry eye, too. what a brave little girl.

Thanks, Ebbie. I didn't see the words, just the audio. Glad you read it.:-)


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Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,BoZ
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 06:28 AM

So anyway, When i saw this thread i thought.. "hmm a place to type my condolences and feelings towards a bloke i enjoyed watchin on the telly, with his wife Terri"..

Then i see a buncha stuff bout how it's his own fault he died!, ok so i guess that's fredom of speech. Steve Irwin Is dead and it dont matter to make sense of it! , He was killed by an animal that wasnt s'posed to kill!, But it did!..

In the end we'll all have an end, and we'll never be able to look back at the beginning to make light of anything we ever did, I dont reckon anyone should make anything out of Steve's death but who am i to dictate anothers motives?.

Good onya Stevo!, For being who you were and who so many enjoyed watchin!, And this go's to all you folk's who are doin it for the world, for yourself, and for others.. Bring it on and bring it hard, your works are acknowledged even without a dedicated limelight.

BoZ


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