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BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!

Ron Davies 27 Nov 05 - 10:23 PM
GUEST,Arne Langsetmo 27 Nov 05 - 10:08 PM
Bobert 27 Nov 05 - 10:00 PM
GUEST,TIA 27 Nov 05 - 09:42 PM
dianavan 27 Nov 05 - 08:45 PM
Peace 27 Nov 05 - 07:12 PM
Bobert 27 Nov 05 - 06:55 PM
GUEST,Arne Langsetmo 27 Nov 05 - 06:45 PM
Bobert 27 Nov 05 - 05:01 PM
GUEST,Just Curious 27 Nov 05 - 02:42 PM
TIA 27 Nov 05 - 01:47 PM
Ron Davies 27 Nov 05 - 11:56 AM
Teribus 27 Nov 05 - 11:48 AM
Ron Davies 27 Nov 05 - 11:42 AM
Ron Davies 27 Nov 05 - 11:17 AM
Teribus 27 Nov 05 - 11:14 AM
Teribus 27 Nov 05 - 11:07 AM
TIA 27 Nov 05 - 10:17 AM
Ron Davies 27 Nov 05 - 10:12 AM
Bobert 27 Nov 05 - 08:33 AM
GUEST,Arne Langsetmo 27 Nov 05 - 07:50 AM
GUEST,Arne Langsetmo 27 Nov 05 - 07:47 AM
akenaton 27 Nov 05 - 04:52 AM
Bobert 26 Nov 05 - 11:11 PM
GUEST,Geoduck 26 Nov 05 - 10:39 PM
Bobert 26 Nov 05 - 08:01 PM
Ron Davies 26 Nov 05 - 06:43 PM
akenaton 26 Nov 05 - 06:30 PM
Bobert 26 Nov 05 - 05:56 PM
Ron Davies 26 Nov 05 - 05:53 PM
TIA 26 Nov 05 - 05:48 PM
Ron Davies 26 Nov 05 - 11:14 AM
Ron Davies 26 Nov 05 - 11:07 AM
Ron Davies 26 Nov 05 - 10:54 AM
TIA 26 Nov 05 - 10:02 AM
Teribus 26 Nov 05 - 04:18 AM
GUEST,Old Guy 26 Nov 05 - 02:16 AM
Bobert 25 Nov 05 - 11:02 PM
Ron Davies 25 Nov 05 - 10:51 PM
Bobert 25 Nov 05 - 09:57 PM
Ron Davies 25 Nov 05 - 09:48 PM
akenaton 25 Nov 05 - 06:48 PM
Bobert 25 Nov 05 - 06:09 PM
GUEST 25 Nov 05 - 04:35 PM
Teribus 25 Nov 05 - 01:32 PM
Ron Davies 24 Nov 05 - 10:49 PM
GUEST 24 Nov 05 - 09:50 PM
GUEST,Mister Peanut 24 Nov 05 - 09:39 PM
Teribus 24 Nov 05 - 09:34 PM
GUEST,Peter Piglet 24 Nov 05 - 09:27 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 10:23 PM

Of course with giant intellects like the latest feeble incarnation of Teribus---who won't even admit that Bush and his minions were pushing a link between al Queda and Iraq at least since mid 2002---there's not much challenge.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 10:08 PM

Bobert: Ahhhhh, are we still payin Chalibi $450,000 a month for his expertize on Iraq, Arne???

Dunno. They didn't let any reporters (or process servers) anywhere near Chalabi when he came and had his private audience with the maladministration a couple weeks back.

Clinton had the good sense to cut off Chalabi and the INC because they looked to be more a bunch of opportunistic crooks that any actual "independence movement" or "government in exile". Millions went to Chalabi that were unaccounted for, so Clinton snipped the umbilical.

Cheers,


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 10:00 PM

Thanks TIA... BUt you and lots of others were in the pits wid me... Yeah, if an ol'hillbilly could see this without spending $33M on Chalabi lies then why couldn't BUsh and his gang of chickenhawks see it... I mean, there qwere millions, millions and millions of folks in the streets all 'round the world who saw the truth!!! Anf they were in the streets... I mean, like nuthin' that evr happened during thr Viet Nam war but here these millions and millions of folks sayin'. "Hey wait just a dog-gone minute!@!!"

But di9d drunk frat AWOL boy wait just a minute to check his facts??? Well, Heell no, he didn't... LIke foremer Tresury Secretary under Bush said, "Bush was Hell-bent on invading Iraq from Day 2"...

Yeah, not only has Bush really screwed up our country for atleast the next decade as folks try to figgure ways to extracate the US from everything he has messed up, but I gotta pay fir the clean up...

Now some folks here think I'm jus' playin' about havin' to come up with money to pay taxes but I ain't... It is the single most hardship on me but I bite the bullet, borrow some years, but I do it...

Now come drunk frat boy, who never had to make one sacrifice in his life who has plundered our country into an hopeless war and and a hopele4ss fiscal crisis and I have to pay fir it???

Hey, beyond the morals here, Americans gotta figgure out what I have figgured out... We are gettin' robbed!!!

This Bush guy is an imposter and a crook and ought to be in friggin' jail!!!

Yeah, I'm mad...

Ain't just about immoral wars... It's also about outright theivery!!!

Screw him and the horse he rode in on...

I'm mad and America's gettin' mad, too...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 09:42 PM

Someone upthread mentioned that gloating is not seemly. I agree. However, it's damn hard not to feel some level of vindication when we've been called cowardly, unpatriotic, treasonsous Saddam aopologists for several years now... and low and fucking behold, the stuff we were posting years ago all turns out to be TRUE! I know Bobert has got to feel al little bit of this - 'cause I remember Teribus, Old Guy, and others mocking him about his prediction that there would be house-to-house urban warfare in Iraq, and a multiyear to multidecade commitment of US troops, and tens of thousands of civilian casualties and... and ... and... The written record is so totally there for anyone who cares to look at it.

Sorry folks. It ain't exactly gloating, 'cause we're not happy about this shit. But the other side has yet to admit that they were the least bit wrong, and we were the least bit right. They still insist on calling US (!) the fools. So, when we get a chance to show, using their own words, that they are full of crap, I'm not big enough to pass on it.

A little petty? A lot immature? Guilty as charged.

TIA


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: dianavan
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 08:45 PM

Bobert - I don't know about Chalabi's monthly salary but I did find this in the May 31 edition of Newsweek:

"All told, Chalabi's INC has been paid about $33 million by State and some $6 million by the DIA."

and this, "Chalabi's INC associates have been accused of using their connections at the Ministry of Finance and the major banks to commit fraud and embezzlement, according to charges that led to the raid on Chalabi's headquarters. Chalabi's men have also been accused of extortion and kidnapping by the Iraqi Central Criminal Court, which was set up by the U.S.-run CPA."

Not only that, yesterday's guardian tells us, "In Iraq, an American-inspired deal to hand over development of oil reserves, the third largest in the world, to US and British companies is being rushed through by the oil minister and Deputy Prime Minister Ahmed Chalabi before next month's election."

BTW - These are 30 year contracts.

Hmmmm........


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Peace
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 07:12 PM

Just saw a cartoon depicting Bush at his desk writing a memo.

"The United States will seek out terrorists responsible ofr 9/11 by invading afganiston/affganestan/afgannest--IRAQ."


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 06:55 PM

Ahhhhh, are we still payin Chalibi $450,000 a month for his expertize on Iraq, Arne???

(Hey, Bobert, that's a lotta dough fir a lotta crap!!!)

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 06:45 PM

Teribus, Geoduck, OldGuy:

[re: Dubya not saying that Saddam and al Qaeda were linked]

Here's for ya:


For example, this statement by Bush on February 8, 2003:

    Saddam Hussein has longstanding, direct and continuing ties to terrorist networks. Senior members of Iraqi intelligence and al Qaeda have met at least eight times since the early 1990s. Iraq has sent bomb-making and document forgery experts to work with al Qaeda. Iraq has also provided al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training. And an al Qaeda operative was sent to Iraq several times in the late 1990s for help in acquiring poisons and gases.


Only problem here is that virtually none of that was true.

Now are you folks going to be gentlemen and acknowledge that Dubya actually did his very best to tie the two together?

Doubt it.... Certainly not Mr. "I tell ya, black is white, who you gonna believe, me, or your lying eyes" Teribus.....

Teribus [quoting Tenet]: "We have solid reporting of senior-level contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda going back a decade. ... We have credible reporting that al Qaeda leaders sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire WMD capabilities."

Couldn't be that these "credible" sources were Chalabi's thugs'n'liars (such as the famous "Curveball), eh?

Teribus is bound and determined to go down with the ship....

But we can see from the link above where OldGuy and Geoduck get their "news".... The RNC puts out the spin points, and the media and the RW blogs and the rest of the RNC "spin machine" blasts the latest talking points around the world ... and then the RW sycophant crew all starts blabbering and saying the same wacky thing at the same time. Curious ... "we are the Borg -- you will be assimilated!"

Cheers,


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 05:01 PM

Hmmmmm, is the "proven liar" certificate gettin' ready to be issued here???

Maybe, maybe not...


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Just Curious
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 02:42 PM

Behold! There lies Teribus at full fathom five, still clutching the soggy straw that he thought would keep him afloat.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: TIA
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 01:47 PM

Teribus – it might be time for you to give up soon (before the umpire invokes the mercy rule). The source of the previous "quote" is a press conference on September 25, 2004.

But since that probably won't satisfy you and your chums, here's more…

GWB, weekly radio address, February 8, 2003:

"Saddam Hussein has longstanding, direct, and continuing ties to terrorist networks. Senior members of Iraqi intelligence and al-Qaeda have met at least eight times since the early 1990s."



GWB May 1, 2003, speech aboard the Lincoln (under the banner – remember?):

"The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on Sept. 11, 2001. With that attack, the terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States. And war is what they got".


GWB Press conference, June 17, 2004:

"…there were numerous contacts between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda. For example, Iraqi intelligence agents met with bin Laden, the head of al-Qaeda in Sudan."

Do you really still believe he never tried to say there was a link between Saddam and Al Quaeda?


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 11:56 AM

Teribus--

In addition to your other qualities, you're getting sloppy.

What is the date of your quote by George Tenet to the Senate Select Committee? (posting of 27 Nov 2005 11:07 AM)




Hope you're preparing your remarks on the occasion of receiving the sophistry award.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 11:48 AM

TIA - 27 Nov 05 - 10:17 AM

"The danger is, is that al-Qaeda becomes an extension of Saddam's madness and his hatred and his capacity to extend weapons of mass destruction around the world. Both of them need to be dealt with. The war on terror, you can't distinguish between al-Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror."

The source of the above "quote" is????


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 11:42 AM

Teribus--

Do you yet admit Bush and cronies were pushing a link between al-Queda and Saddam?

If you don't admit it, I'm about ready to quote you from your own post.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 11:17 AM

Teribus--

You still don't admit Bush and his cronies were pushing a link between Saddam and al Queda?

How many quotes do you need?

Talk about massive self-delusion.

Not only were they pushing it, they pushed it successfully--probably the major factor in their successful propaganda campaign to push the war they wanted.


What about TIA's latest quote?

And what about National Review etc?    I suppose you think liberals planted that story in National Review online?

Paranoia--QED.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 11:14 AM

Sorry for some reason the following disappeared from my post below <>

Ansar al-Islam is a radical Islamist group of Iraqi Kurds and Arabs who have vowed to establish an independent Islamic state in Iraq. It was formed in December 2001 and is closely allied with al-Qaida. Some of its members trained in al-Qaida camps in Afghanistan, and the group provided safehaven to al-Qaida fighters before Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). Since OIF, it has been one of the leading groups engaged in anti-Coalition attacks.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 11:07 AM

Ron Davies - 27 Nov 05 - 10:12 AM

"Geoduck, Teribus et al.--

No link?

Try Bush's 2003 State of the Union (28 Jan 2003).

"Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications, and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam aids and protects terrorists including members of al Queda."--no link?"

Couldn't be referring to these guys then?

<>

Now in the past MGOH has stated that these guys could not have had anything to do with Saddam's regime as they were Kurds and their camp close to the Iranian border was in the Kurdish part of Iraq. However the camp was south and east of the Northern no-fly zone boundary and in territory under Saddam's control. This organisation fought the two other Kurdish Groups, thereby fulfilling a role in Saddam's scheme of things, which is why he permitted them to set up a base in Iraq, they (Ansar al-Islam) not being exactly trusting of SH made sure theircamp was close to the Iranian border.

Ron D......"Before September the 11th many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained." Now why do you suppose Bush used "September 11" and "Saddam Hussein" in that context? Could it be that he wanted to foster a link in the minds of his listeners?

Nah, not a chance."

Very weak point, it could also be taken to mean, exactly what it was supposed to mean, that in light of the Al-Qaeda attacks of September 11th, something had to be done to enforce Iraq's disarmament before Saddam Hussein provides technology or material to some unspecified international terrorist group intent on attacking America

On the linkage between Al-Qaeda and Iraq

The indictment for the 1998 U.S. Embassy Bombings which links Iraq and al Qaeda:

"According to the indictment, bin Laden and al Qaeda forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in Sudan and with representatives of the Government of Iran and its associated terrorist group Hezballah with the goal of working together against their common enemies in the West, particularly the United States. In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the Government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq,"


CIA Director George Tenet's letter to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence that indicated intelligence demonstrates links exist:

"We have solid reporting of senior-level contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda going back a decade. ... We have credible reporting that al Qaeda leaders sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire WMD capabilities."

Clinton administration's claims of ties between Iraq and al Qaeda when bombing the Shifa chemical weapons factory in Sudan in conjunction with the attack on al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan in 1998:

The United States also claims it had other evidence linking the plant with chemical weapons production. That evidence includes links between officials at the facility in Sudan and an Iraqi official who has been labeled by U.S. intelligence as "the father of Iraq's chemical weapons program." The Iraqi, identified as Emad Al Ani, is said to have had extensive dealings with officials at the plant in the Sudanese capital of Khartoum. That and the connection between terrorism sponsor Osama bin Laden and Sudan's "military industrial complex" were enough to convince the United States that the Shifa plant was involved in chemical weapons production, the official said.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: TIA
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 10:17 AM

How's this GWB quote for Old Guy and the Duck:

"The danger is, is that al-Qaeda becomes an extension of Saddam's madness and his hatred and his capacity to extend weapons of mass destruction around the world. Both of them need to be dealt with. The war on terror, you can't distinguish between al-Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror."

Never claimed a link, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 10:12 AM

Geoduck, Teribus et al.--

No link?

Try Bush's 2003 State of the Union (28 Jan 2003).

"Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications, and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam aids and protects terrorists including members of al Queda."--no link?


"Before September the 11th many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained." Now why do you suppose Bush used "September 11" and "Saddam Hussein" in that context? Could it be that he wanted to foster a link in the minds of his listeners?

Nah, not a chance.


How about Amos' quote by Rumsfeld 26 Sept 2002: "We have what we consider to be credible evidence that al Queda leaders have sought contacts with Iraq who could help them acquire.....weapons of mass destruction capabilities"---no link?

Etc, ad nauseam.

Give your head a shake. Sorry, Geoduck. Your boy Teribus has led you into a trap.

I have better things to do than point out the obvious--which as TIA has pointed out, you can easily confirm for yourself.

Look, Bush and his ""team" sought at least from about mid-2002 to draw connections between Saddam and al Queda.

If you don't realize this, you should learn to read.    After you do that, you could start by reading the National Review link cited earlier in the thread.

Paranoid--well I'd say, as I said earlier, that believing National Review is in the pocket of Michael Moore is a pretty good definition of paranoid. Or perhaps you don't know who Michael Moore is or what National Review is.

In that case, follow the above advice--learn to read.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 08:33 AM

And jus a follow-up to what my pal, Arne, has just said, Quack-ster:

After 9/11 Bush siad that we had had an "intellegence" breakdown and promised to fix it because it was his job to protect Americans...

Then the invasion of Iraq, which has done little in the way of keeping some 2,000 Americans safe while also killing off ten u[pons thousands of Iraqis...

So after the invasion Bush siad we had had an "intellegence failure"... Hmmmmmmm? De ja vo.... Ain't that the thing he was 'sposed to fix???

Nevermind...

Now fast forward to Katrina.... Well, "Brownie", who took the fall for drunk frat boy's Katrina AWOL, had done his job in aasking Bush to act but Bush went on vacationing...

(I can hear Bush now telling Brown, "Hey, call me next wek. I'm on vacation...")

Yes, I agree. There is a supreme "intellegence failure" and it seems more and more like it is centered in the hung-over head of the drunk frat boy...

Why should Atrne, I, or anyone else in America have any faith that Bush cares to, or has the skills, to protect the Americn people???

Peace, Quack-ster,

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 07:50 AM

Arne: He's (to borrow his won words) a "catastropic success".

Ooooops. Unintentional. But funny.

Cheers,


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 07:47 AM

GD:

When we have another terrorist attack here in the US which is all but inevirable,...

Perhaps. Just as we will always have murders. I'm not willing to turn the U.S. into a totalitarian fortress island in a futile attempt to try and eliminate any possibility of untimely death through violence. And while there's maybe a bit we can do to reduce the risk of terrorism (and fighting in Iraq is not one of them), it's silly to help the maladministration perpetuate the myth that terrorism is due to "Islamofascism" ... just remember, for instance, Oklahoma City.....

... your butt cheeks will tighten up once more...

Speaking for yourself, I assume. Certainly not me. I spent the rest of that week hoping to get out of NYC airports to go to the Walnut Valley Festival in Winfield, but the airports were closed/clogged, and many more people had more important claims to space when the airports finally opened up. But in October, I was off to Tchad, a 50% Muslim country. Cautious? Maybe. Not particularly scared, though. Don't really know, GD, why you think that we were the ones terrified. Projection?

... and you will be hiding behind George Bush for protection once again.....

Not much room back there behind a terrified preznit trying to concentrate on "My Pet Goat" as people in NYC were fighting for their lives. That seven minutes was interminable. You think I'd count on that bozo for anything?

... You will all be bitching that he did not do enough.

I tend to bitch about the fact that he doesn't to the right thing. Or at the right time. He's (to borrow his won words) a "catastropic success". How I miss the horrible eight years of peace and prospertity that preceded Dubya's tenure. Good thing he "turn[ed] things around", eh?

Cheers,


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 04:52 AM

Geoduck writes,

Over the past few months, none of my family or friends have mentioned Iraq.........Well why the fuck is that??

Could it be a case of...."DONT MENTION THE WAR"!!!.......;0)


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 11:11 PM

Step 1: Lord let me accept thyose things for which I cannot change and let me act on those that I can.... ('er sometyhing like that...)

Yo duck,

I have said over and over I do not condone folks killin' each other for political gain... Don't matter if it the World Trade Center, Oklahoma, downtown Bahgdad 'er whatever...

I have no control what so ever over a lot of the killing that is going on but I'd like to think that in the US o0f A, the home of Jeffersonian "democracy" that,f I see some funky stuff going down by my government, that I have an *obligation* to do what I can to stop it...

And I see some funky stuff going down by my governemnmt...

Peace

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Geoduck
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 10:39 PM

I have not seen a single quotation by Bush saying Saddam had anything to do with 9/11. Show me one like this :Bush said ""

RD: Please provide a definition of Paranoid.

Bobert: I thought it was stupid to stay the course. Whose hands has the blood from the attacks on WTC I, the American embassies and the USS Kohl?

I know I am never going to convince anybody here that their anti-war crusade is a waste of time but it is entertaining to see the responses of people trying to make a point where there is no point to be made.

The only point they make is that they are unhappy with the way things are going in the world and they are frustrated because they cannot change it their way.

Over the past month or more I have been working with many people and have had many contacts with family and friends. None of them have mentioned Iraq, George Bush or Al Quaeda. 0 out of a hundred people or so. This tells me that the protesters here are in a very small minority. They cluster together here to succor each other in an attempt to make people think their numbers are larger than they really are.

They are aided and abetted by the media, including Fox, because the media gives them a voice the same way the terrorists use the media to gain a voice.

When we have another terrorist attack here in the US which is all but inevirable, your butt cheeks will tighten up once more and you will be hiding behind George Bush for protection once again. You will all be bitching that he did not do enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 08:01 PM

Victory, as I define it, would be nuthin' less than the 12 month pullout, a "Saudi Proposal" *like* plan, reparations to Iraq fir the infastructure we destroyed, reparations to the Iraqi families of innocent Iraqis that we have killed and the setablishment of the Department of Peace...

Anything less just won't change much of anything...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 06:43 PM

Don't worry, Ake--I'm sure Teribus or another of Bush's giant intellects will be along to assure us we have not won any victory over them.

I suspect that anybody opposing Bush on this forum had sense enough to vote for Kerry in 2004. Aside from that, there's not much we can do--except toss Bush's supporters out in 2006. And--I hope--figure out which battles are worth fighting--and which ones needlessly energize the other side--e.g. liberals should have listened to Barney Frank in 2004 on election tactics.

But this is even worse thread creep than we have already.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 06:30 PM

A small victory over Bruce or Teribus on this forum is unimportant.
And gloating is unseemly.

The real villains are still in place , both in the US and the UK, and remember the Democrats supported bush when the chips were down.


The real war is just beginning...Ake


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 05:56 PM

Old Guy,

Yes, I am going to stay on what you refer to as "anti-war bullshit" for the following reasons:

1. It isn't "bullsh*t"...

2. As a patriot is my duty and responsiobility...

3. It is a terrible foriegn policy based on lies...

BTW, are you going to continue to defend every mistake and lie of George Bush??? TIA just gave you enough resources fir yer little knothead self to discover that at least one of the lies that George Bush has been caught telling, he actually, as in FACT, did tell. And he told it over and over...

Ain't our side trying to revise jack... Go back an reread some of the pre-war threads and you read the same folks here, like Ron and TIA, who were making these same points in the run-up to the war..

And make no bones about it... It was a run-up! No make that a sprint-up!!! Bush couldn't get them bombs droppin' on women and kids soon enough to suit him... He had a hissy fir when Colin Powell won probably his only victory against the chicken-hawks in the administration by gettin' drunk frat boy to consent to going before the UN...

Yeah, even though it was perfuntatory and held the invasion offf a couple weeks, I musy have really p.o.'d Bush to have to do a little pre-invasion protocol... Tsk! Tsk!...

But Bush gotr his war after telling Hans Blix, who had just reported to the UN that the Iraqis were copperating fully, to beat feet 'er get bombed!!!

Yeah, Old Guy... I'll tell ya one thing. The blood is on yer hands and don't give me no crap about waht Saddam did!!! If Bush wanted him dead he could have had him assasinated... Heck, if Dan Rathwer could get in don't go and tell me that the US Special Forces couldn't have taken hyim out... I got buddies in Special Forces who would track yer butt down if that is yer opinion of them...

Yeah, Old Guy... The blood is very much on your hands... Hope you don't think of yerself as a Christain 'cause guess what??? St. Peter got somethin' else in mind fir you and yer kind, yer drunk frat boy hero included...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 05:53 PM

It shows how out of touch with reality they are-- and indicates mass self-delusion--I'm sure there's a technical psychological term.

Why they expect to be taken seriously on anything is a mystery.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: TIA
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 05:48 PM

How much fun is it that Old Guy, Teribus, BB et al. have degenerated to making the argument that "{Bush never actually explicitly said verbatim that "there is a link between Iraq and 911"}". This is a far far cry from the arguments we were hearing pre-invasion (which are easily found and reread for confirmation).


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 11:14 AM

Teribus--

Also, the fans are still hoping for a few words from you on the occasion of your winning the sophistry award.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 11:07 AM

Teribus et al.--

Please be sure to check the links provided by TIA. Unless of course you're convinced that National Review Online for instance is in Michael Moore's pocket.

Which perhaps in your paranoid world view it is.

And please tell us when you admit that Bush and his team have linked al Queda and Saddam---for a long time.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 10:54 AM

Teribus et al.--

"You can't distinguish between al Queda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror".

Oh come on. If you can't understand English we may as well end the debate right now.

Unless of course you're stalwart upholders of the "big lie" approach.   Virtually everything the Bush "team" told the US public up to the invasion, at least, say from mid 2002 on, was designed to make exactly the connection between Saddam and al Queda.

But now it suits your purpose to deny it.

Sorry--the big lie doesn't work with people who can read and think. Try your approach somewhere else.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: TIA
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 10:02 AM

"Show us one example where Bush said Saddam had anything to do with 911"

How about the entire pre-invasion state of the union where Iraq and 911 were mentioned in the same sentence something like 16 times?

Besides, how did you get so off message? Forget Bush alone, the entire right wingnut brigade is STILL insisting on an Iraqi hand in 911.

links here


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 04:18 AM

GUEST, 25 Nov 05 - 04:35 PM,

Things were spun and lies and deception played their respective parts, but not by those you accuse.

The spin, lies and deception have the anti-Bush, anti-war camp believing that the current President of the United States of America stated things that he patently did not, this can be easily verified just by reading the text of his speeches.

Ron Davies - 25 Nov 05 - 09:48 PM

<<<"You can't distinguish between al Queda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror":   George W Bush 25 Sept 2002

But that certainly doesn't mean they're linked--oh no!--perish the thought! They're one and the same---but not linked.

How's that again?>>>

Do always do that Ron? Take single sentences literally, applying no context with regard to background, subject or substance?


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 02:16 AM

Ron Davies:

Show us one example where Bush said Saddam had anything to do with 911.

Bobert:

Are you going to stay the course on this anti war bullshit you are spreading? Are you ever going to give up and admit defeat?


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Nov 05 - 11:02 PM

Labotomy???


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Nov 05 - 10:51 PM

Where do you suppose the old one went?


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Nov 05 - 09:57 PM

The broken one is downright dumb...


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Nov 05 - 09:48 PM

Envelope please............and the winner in the sophistry category, winning for his posting of 25 November 2005 1:32 PM is......................TERIBUS!!!!!   (thunderous applause)

Congratulations!!! Now wouldn't you like to say a few words to the fans?



"You can't distinguish between al Queda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror":   George W Bush 25 Sept 2002

But that certainly doesn't mean they're linked--oh no!--perish the thought! They're one and the same---but not linked.

How's that again?

PLEASE bring back the old Teribus. This one's broken beyond repair. The old one would never have made such a transparently foolish statement.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 05 - 06:48 PM

Teribus.....I am well known in my locality,as a happy-go-lucky fellow, who always has a smile and a kindly word for everyone.
I never get depressed by the actions of our political leaders, or the idiocy of those who support them in the face of overwhelming evidence of their duplicity.

However ,I reserve the right to give my opinion on the consequences of our foreign policy, which as far as Iraq is concerned has indeed meant "doom gloom and more gloom", mainly for the innocent civilians of Iraq and the sons and daughters of America and Britain.

My happy and cheerful personna is somewhat reinforced by the news that 70% of the American people now see the war as a grave mistake and the American administration as untrustworthy.

This may seem unremarkable to we in the UK, who have long been steeped in cynicism regarding our "representatives", but if the sleeping giant of American opinion is at last roused to question the cabal who inflict them, I will in fact be cheering from the rooftops.

And singing   "God bless America"...Ake


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Nov 05 - 06:09 PM

Ahhh, just a refresher here...

Bush invaded Iraq because:

1.)Inspite of the German Federal Intellegence Service's insistence that much of the information obtained by the CIA that was used to say the Iraq possessed WMD was obtained by a most unreliable source, "Curveball", Bush over-rode the disentin' opinions and stated that possession of WMD's by Iraq was FACT...

2. Inpsite of the CIA's own assessment that the aluminum tubes were not of the quality to make a centrifuge AND coupled with the report by Joe Wilson, who was sent to Niger to investigate, that the yellow cake story was not true, Bush, upon a forged report from Blair said that Iraq was trying to build nuclear weapons was FACT...

3. Then Cheney, over and over, made references to links between Al Quida and Saddam as FACT...

Okay, none of these so called FACTS turned out to be "facts" but fiction...

Should be the end of the story, right??? I mean if we went to war because of these fears now that they are found to be incorrect, there's no reason to keep killin' Iraqia and havin' our bothers and siters killed in the process...

Remember back when Nixon was elected with his so called "secret plan" to get us outta Vietnam... That was '68... But soon as he took office we started hearing the same crap that we're hearin' now which is "we can't just cut and run".... Well, another 20,000 Americans died beforwe the US did just that!!! That's 20,000, folks!!!

Looking back wouldn't it have been better to "cut and run" in '68 rather than some 5 years later???

The United Sates needs to give notice to the new governwemnt, irregardless of it legitemacy, that it will pull out all of its troops over the next 12 months... It needs to say this with no uncertaain terms... We didn't have any legitimte excuse fir going there in the first palce and that has now been painfully proven to everyone who is breathing...

But the United States needs to do more...

It needs to go back and revisit the Saudi Proposal and find parts that can be resurrected... It needs to bring in the Saudi Royal Family as major players and it needs to have a Middle East Peace Summit... And it needsto spend the bucks it now spends on PR folks that try to make anti-war folks look like traiors and spend that money on PR folks that make commercials in Middle East countries that makes involvemwent in the "right thing to do"...

But, "STAY THE COURSE" is a recipe for disaster, just like it was in Vietnam in 1968...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 05 - 04:35 PM

The fact remains, Teribus, that between things said by the Bush administration in the run-up to invading Iraq, and Bush propaganda organs such as Fox News Service (which you obviously get your main news from), 60% or more of the American population believed that it was Saddam who attacked the World Trade Center. The Bush administration did everything in its power to foster that belief.

Now, since the lies and deceptions have become obvious, even to a lot of Republicans who are pretty pissed off about it, both you and the Bush administration are trying to back-pedal. You've both been caught with your pants down and you're tap-dancing as fast as you can. Awkward with your pants around your ankles.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Nov 05 - 01:32 PM

"You can't distinguish between Al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror," President Bush said on September 25, 2002.

Now what was that he said in the SOU Address in 2002 again:

"Our nation will continue to be steadfast and patient and persistent in the pursuit of two great objectives. First, we will shut down terrorist camps, disrupt terrorist plans, and bring terrorists to justice. And, second, we must prevent the terrorists and regimes who SEEK chemical, biological or nuclear weapons from threatening the United States and the world."

Now relate that to the quote provided by Amos - "The pursuit of two great objectives" Al-Qaeda falls under the First objective, Saddam's regime in Iraq falls under the Second objective. So if the US was to pursue two great objectives in its declared war on terror the President is perfectly correct there is no difference.

He is still not saying that Iraq had anything to do with 911.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Nov 05 - 10:49 PM

Teribus--

Very interesting you have not replied to Amos' citations. No surprise really--classic Bushite maneuver. He has pointed out just a few of the myriads of times Bush and his minions have linked Saddam to al Queda (which you might possibly recognize is usually fingered for the 11 September 2001 attacks).

So you ignore it.

Sorry that won't wash.

There has been a steady drum-beat for years emanating from the US current "leadership" of a connection between Iraq and al Queda.

So you were less than semi-comatose after all.




What's interesting now is that all sides, including the Bushites, are desperately trying to figure out a way to get out of Iraq. The Bushites, however, still want to claim victory. It sounds as if nobody plans to be there for another 11 years, as a general was speculating a few weeks ago. Since Murtha's statement, there's been a sea-change.

Now what happens is:

1)   The Sunnis participate more than expected in the December elections.
2)   The Bushites come out and withdraw a few thousand troops--and say we planned to do it all along.

The question however is what happens when the Sunnis try to amend the constitution--and all their amendments are totally rejected.

If they are disappointed enough to deepen support of the insurgency, will Bush put more troops in?

My guess is he'd be in big trouble if he did--unless he could do it surreptitiously--perhaps extend all tours of duty--which would mean just a few more troops in addition.

Could he do that under the radar?


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 05 - 09:50 PM

Bush has betrayed his office and the people he was supposed to govern properly. He has deceived and lied to get us into a war he cannot now get us out of. His response is to blame those that believed his crap. "You shouldn't have believed me, you know I'm not worth a shit" is pretty poor as excuses go. Hiding behind Clinton--a man out of office for 5 years now--has gotten very old with me very quickly.

Dear Mr. President:

Clinton didn't invade Iraq, Mr. President, you did. You're in your second term and this war you started out of your control, sir, and you cannot halt the killings of Americans just by declaring the end of major combat. You cannot evade responsibility for your actions just by calling those of us who criticize you un-American. You tried to hide behind the last president to justify your lies. You abused your power in order to get us into something that seriously damages our credibility as a nation and as a people, you are causing more and more families to mourn every month in order to serve some greedy political agenda. Then when a disaster strikes--one you didn't precipitate yourself--you paid it no mind even after its awful effects were realized. You've spent so much on this war you started, that GM, Delphi, Enron, Worldcom, Ford and other major corporations are going belly up while you and your republican Congress twaddle over Terri Schaivo. That's what we're going to talk about, sir, not about Mr. Clinton.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Mister Peanut
Date: 24 Nov 05 - 09:39 PM

Well, they do say that brevity is the soul of wit.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Nov 05 - 09:34 PM

Best you can do GUEST,Peter Piglet ?? Mark you, you do tend, in general, to make more sense than Arne Langsetmo.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Peter Piglet
Date: 24 Nov 05 - 09:27 PM

OINNNNK!


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