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BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!

GUEST,Geoduck 10 Nov 05 - 08:56 PM
Peace 10 Nov 05 - 09:00 PM
artbrooks 10 Nov 05 - 09:03 PM
Bobert 10 Nov 05 - 09:06 PM
GUEST,Geoduck 10 Nov 05 - 09:07 PM
leftydee 10 Nov 05 - 09:07 PM
GUEST 10 Nov 05 - 09:10 PM
GUEST,Geoduck 10 Nov 05 - 09:14 PM
GUEST,Geoduck 10 Nov 05 - 09:19 PM
Bobert 10 Nov 05 - 09:21 PM
Peace 10 Nov 05 - 09:24 PM
GUEST,Geoduck 10 Nov 05 - 09:24 PM
artbrooks 10 Nov 05 - 09:29 PM
GUEST 10 Nov 05 - 09:30 PM
leftydee 10 Nov 05 - 09:30 PM
Peace 10 Nov 05 - 09:36 PM
GUEST,Arne Langsetmo 10 Nov 05 - 09:43 PM
Peace 10 Nov 05 - 09:55 PM
GUEST,Geoduck 10 Nov 05 - 10:14 PM
Peace 10 Nov 05 - 10:15 PM
Metchosin 10 Nov 05 - 10:16 PM
Peace 10 Nov 05 - 10:31 PM
Peace 10 Nov 05 - 10:31 PM
Little Hawk 10 Nov 05 - 10:51 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 Nov 05 - 10:56 PM
katlaughing 10 Nov 05 - 11:40 PM
GUEST,Boab 11 Nov 05 - 12:43 AM
GUEST 11 Nov 05 - 12:57 AM
GUEST 11 Nov 05 - 01:59 AM
Bobert 11 Nov 05 - 07:30 AM
beardedbruce 11 Nov 05 - 07:53 AM
beardedbruce 11 Nov 05 - 08:15 AM
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GUEST,TIA 11 Nov 05 - 09:36 AM
GUEST,Guest Teribus 11 Nov 05 - 09:37 AM
beardedbruce 11 Nov 05 - 09:42 AM
GUEST,Teribus 11 Nov 05 - 09:47 AM
GUEST,TIA 11 Nov 05 - 09:50 AM
beardedbruce 11 Nov 05 - 09:55 AM
GUEST 11 Nov 05 - 11:29 AM
Little Hawk 11 Nov 05 - 11:46 AM
Peace 11 Nov 05 - 12:57 PM
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pdq 11 Nov 05 - 01:16 PM
beardedbruce 11 Nov 05 - 01:27 PM
GUEST,Arne Langsetmo 11 Nov 05 - 01:36 PM
beardedbruce 11 Nov 05 - 02:17 PM
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Subject: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Geoduck
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 08:56 PM

Dont tell the Anti Bushites here but WMDs were found in Iraq. Right now it is one of the left leaning Main Stream media's best kept secrets.

WMDs Found in Iraq Nov 9, 2005

Contrary to ongoing reports by mainstream media outlets, WMDs have been found in Iraq, so reports New York Times best-selling author Richard Miniter in his new book, Disinformation.


Consider these shocking facts:

• Found: 1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium

• Found: 1,500 gallons of chemical weapons

• Found: Roadside bomb loaded with sarin gas

• Found: 1,000 radioactive materials--ideal for radioactive dirty bombs

• Found: 17 chemical warheads--some containing cyclosarin, a nerve agent five times more powerful than sarin

This is only a partial list of the deadly weapons Miniter reveals in his new book, Disinformation. Miniter systematically dissects the "No-WMD Myth" (how it started, and why it continues), as well as 21 other War-on-Terror myths perpetuated by the media.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/sarticle.php?id=10101


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:00 PM

Nice blurb for a book. So, who says anyone should believe this guy?


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:03 PM

And, if true, why hasn't anyone told our glorious leader?


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:06 PM

And further more, if you took 'umm all together they would represent about 1/1,000,000th of the WMD that the US brought with 'um to occyupy Iraq...

So exactly, G-duck, what is yer point here???

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Geoduck
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:07 PM

From the book:

In a secret operation on June 23, 2004, U.S. forces seized 1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium—the kind used to make fuel for atomic bombs—in a nuclear facility in Iraq, according to BBC News. The BBC has been consistently critical of Bush and the Iraq war. U.S. Department of Energy experts also removed 1,000 radioactive materials in "powdered form, which is easily dispersed," said Bryan Wilkes, an Energy Department spokesman. The material would have been ideal for a radioactive dirty bomb. Then energy secretary Spencer Abraham hailed the operation as "a major achievement." Polish general Marek Dukaczewski, Poland's military intelligence chief, revealed that troops in the Polish-patrolled sector of Iraq had received tips from Iraqis that chemical weapons were sold to terrorists on the black market. The weapons had been buried to avoid detection, the general told the BBC. Polish military officials bought seventeen chemical-weapons warheads from Iraqis for $5,000 each to keep them from Iraq's so-called insurgents. "An attack with such weapons would be hard to imagine," the general said. "All of our activity was accelerated at appropriating these warheads." Tests confirmed that some of the warheads contained cyclosarin, a nerve agent five times more powerful than sarin. These chemical weapons were supposed to have been completely destroyed during the 1991–1998 UN inspector regime. Clearly, some WMD survived.
U.S. soldiers stormed into a warehouse in Mosul, Iraq, on August 8, 2005, and were surprised to find 1,500 gallons of chemical agents. It was the largest chemical weapons lab found in Iraq. The intelligence community remains divided over the origin of those chemical weapons (either from inside Iraq or outside) and whether they were made during Saddam's regime or after.

When a roadside bomb exploded near a U.S. convoy on May 17, 2004, it was found to contain the nerve agent sarin. Army Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt told reporters that an "improvised explosive" was rigged to a 155 mm artillery shell that contained sarin. The shell was a "binary chemical projectile," in which the two ingredients that produce
sarin are separated by a propeller blade that spins while the shell is in flight, mixing the deadly gas to full potency. Since the chemical weapons shell was used as a bomb, and not fired from the barrel of an artillery piece, the internal rotor did not spin and the deadly agent was not widely dispersed. As a result, Kimmitt explained, only traces of sarin were produced and released. The soldiers were briefly hospitalized and decontaminated. Again, all such chemical weapons warheads were supposed to be destroyed in 1991—yet Saddam's WMD still threaten the lives of American troops to this day.

The Iraq Survey Group, led by David Kay and charged with finding WMD after the war, discovered a projectile loaded with mustard gas attached to a roadside bomb in May 2004. Fortunately, the mustard gas was "stored improperly" and was "ineffective." The mustard-gas shell is believed to be part of the eighty tons of such gas still unaccounted for.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: leftydee
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:07 PM

The "liberal media" has, until the last few weeks, given the Bush Thugs the benefit of every doubt. If there were a shred of truth to it, it would be gospel by now. Just because some wacko says a grapefruit is a duck doesn't make it quack.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:10 PM

Islamic terrorists will likely sneak across the Mexican border. There have been no weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq. Osama bin Laden is gravely ill. These are but a few of the claims that Richard Miniter attacks in his new book, "Disinformation: 22 Media Myths that Undermine the War on Terror." The author, an investigative journalist and writer of two New York Times bestsellers, discussed these and other issues during a speech given at the Heritage Foundation.

For those who favor greater border security with Mexico, the threat of terrorism is a popular argument. Conservative websites such as WorldNetDaily have written extensively about this subject. A 2004 book, "Illegals," attested to the danger of Islamic extremists entering through the southern border. Richard Miniter argues that there are many valid reasons to secure the vast frontier between Mexico and America, but terrorism isn't one of them. He asserts, "There has never been a known Al-Qaeda operative who has been arrested on or near the Mexican border." According to Mr. Miniter, Canada is the country to be concerned about.

The author summed up his reasoning with three main points: First, unlike Mexico, Canada has a large Muslim population. This makes recruitment easier and allows potential terrorists to conceal their activities. Miniter described this aspect by observing, "If you're a terrorist you want to blend in. You want to be the shark fin hidden among the swimmers." His second argument revolves around the instructions of recovered Al-Qaeda manuals. They direct cell members to get on welfare. This strategy, Miniter attests, makes it easy to devote all energies towards terrorism. Canada has a very generous welfare program, Mexico does not. Regarding his third and final claim, the author commented, "I'm not going to argue that the Mexican police are the world's finest. However, once they have you in custody, you tend to stay there for a while." This, Miniter asserts, is not true with Canada. He references the case of Ahmed Rassan, the so-called "Millennium bomber." In the year 2000 Rassan attempted to blow up Los Angeles Airport on New Years Day. His plan failed, but it was later learned that the Canadians had previously arrested the bomber several times. They never held Rassan for more then a day.

"There is no evidence," Mr. Miniter intoned, "of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. No evidence. None. Zero. The only problem is that's not true." He then cited a 2004 Department of Energy operation that recovered 1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium in Iraq. Additionally there is the case of a roadside bomb found in Iraq that contained illegal chemicals, including the fatal nerve agent, Sarin. The author qualifies his comments by proclaiming, "I'm not saying vast stockpiles have been found…I'm not saying there's a grand central warehouse. That hasn't been found." However, insisting that no weapons have been found, according to Mr. Miniter, is simply a factual error.

Media reports regarding Osama bin Laden often depict him as ailing or report that he is on dialysis. Richard Miniter describes this as "provably false." He starts by mentioning that bin Laden has repeatedly denied being in poor health. There is also the testimony of Osama's doctor who was arrested in Pakistan in 2002 and interrogated by the CIA. This physician rejects such claims as well. Mr. Miniter expands on his thesis by claiming all "bin Laden is sick" stories grew out of one 1998 article from a small Pakistani newspaper. All other subsequent stories emerge from this starting point. Richard Miniter believes that such claims grew out of a need by Pakistan to pacify America. The author informs, "Here's where a little history helps. On August 7, 1998, in East Africa, two U.S embassies explode within nine minutes of each other. [This is] one of the deadliest attacks on U.S diplomats in the history of our country." Miniter claims that this resulted in the Clinton administration pressuring Pakistan to turn over bin Laden. So, a story that proclaims Osama is in poor health would be in the mutual interests of both Pakistan and a President that, Miniter alleges, doesn't really want to deal with the terrorism problem. "It allows the Clinton administration to have an easy victory without having to do anything," he announced. The Pakistanis, including President Musharraf, have since backed off the claims of an ailing bin Laden. Miniter described the entire situation, as "a classic case of disinformation."


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Geoduck
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:14 PM

Who Says There Were No WMDs in IRAQ?
by Doug Edelman
Nov 7, 2005


There is no truth to the disinfomation propogated by the mainstream media, which postulates there were no WMDs, and that Saddam's stockpiles were all destroyed after Gulf War One.
While it is true that no assembled or launch-ready nuclear or chemical/biological weapons have been found, the fact is that many component parts of these weapons have been found – and they even got some mention in the press!

For example:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3872201.stm

The U.S. has revealed that it removed more than 1.7 metric tons of radioactive material from Iraq in a secret operation last month.

"This operation was a major achievement," said U.S. Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham in a statement. He also said it would keep "potentially dangerous nuclear materials out of the hands of terrorists".

Along with 1.77 tons of enriched uranium, about 1,000 "highly radioactive sources" were also removed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html


http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/article_2121151.shtml


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Geoduck
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:19 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html

Iraqi Chemical Stash Uncovered
Post-Invasion Cache Could Have Been For Use in Weapons

By Ellen Knickmeyer
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, August 14, 2005; Page A18

BAGHDAD, Aug. 13 -- U.S. troops raiding a warehouse in the northern city of Mosul uncovered a suspected chemical weapons factory containing 1,500 gallons of chemicals believed destined for attacks on U.S. and Iraqi forces and civilians, military officials said Saturday.

Monday's early morning raid found 11 precursor agents, "some of them quite dangerous by themselves," a military spokesman, Lt. Col. Steven A. Boylan, said in Baghdad.



Materials found in a warehouse in Mosul could yield an agent capable of "lingering hazards" for those exposed to it, according to a U.S. military spokesman. He said the lab was relatively new, dating from some time after the invasion of Iraq in 2003. (Photos By Department Of Defense)



News From Iraq
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Combined, the chemicals would yield an agent capable of "lingering hazards" for those exposed to it, Boylan said. The likely targets would have been "coalition and Iraqi security forces, and Iraqi civilians," partly because the chemicals would be difficult to keep from spreading over a wide area, he said.

Boylan said the suspected lab was new, dating from some time after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. The Bush administration cited evidence that Saddam Hussein's government was manufacturing weapons of mass destruction as the main justification for the invasion. No such weapons or factories were found.

Military officials did not immediately identify either the precursors or the agent they could have produced. "We don't want to speculate on any possibilities until our analysis is complete," Col. Henry Franke, a nuclear, biological and chemical defense officer, was quoted as saying in a military statement.

Investigators still were trying to determine who had assembled the alleged lab and whether the expertise came from foreign insurgents or former members of Hussein's security apparatus, the military said.

"They're looking into it," Boylan said. "They've got to go through it -- there's a lot of stuff there." He added that there was no indication that U.S. forces would be ordered to carry chemical warfare gear, such as gas masks and chemical suits, as they did during the invasion and the months immediately afterward.

U.S. military photos of the alleged lab showed a bare concrete-walled room scattered with stacks of plastic containers, coiled tubing, hoses and a stand holding a large metal device that looked like a distillery. Black rubber boots lay among the gear.

The suspected chemical weapons lab was the biggest found so far in Iraq, Boylan said. A lab discovered last year in the insurgent stronghold of Fallujah contained a how-to book on chemical weapons and an unspecified amount of chemicals.

Chemical weapons are divided into the categories of "persistent" agents, which wreak damage for hours, such as blistering agents or the oily VX nerve agent, and "nonpersistent" ones, which dissipate quickly, such as chlorine gas or sarin nerve gas.

Iraqi forces under Hussein used chemical agents both on enemy forces in the 1980s war with Iran and on Iraqi Kurdish villagers in 1988. Traces of a variety of killing agents -- mustard gas and the nerve agents sarin, tabun and VX -- were detected by investigators after the 1988 attack.

No chemical weapons are known to have been used so far in Iraq's insurgency. Al Qaeda announced after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States that it was looking into acquiring biological, radiological and chemical weapons. The next year, CNN obtained and aired al Qaeda videotapes showing the killings of three dogs with what were believed to be nerve agents.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:21 PM

Still awaitin' a non cut-n'post answer to my question, duck...

Or aren't you capable of makin' such a dangerous step into the real world here in Mudville???

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:24 PM

And for another view:

Look here.

Click in the right-hand column. Another page will come up. Look to the left side and click there.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Geoduck
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:24 PM

Read my first post.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:29 PM

Well, after carefully reading each of those links, I still see no indication that any chemical or radio-explosive weapons have been found.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:30 PM

WMDs have been found in Iraq, so reports New York Times best-selling author Richard Miniter in his new book, Disinformation.

Apt title.

� Found: 1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium

Oh, nonsense. Saddam did have uranium (which made the Niger yellow-cake claim even more dubious), but it was under IAEA watch and was not highly enriched.

� Found: 1,500 gallons of chemical weapons

Nonsense. Pure hogwash.

� Found: Roadside bomb loaded with sarin gas

Dubious. But it was in bad shape, and didn't go off. No one says that Saddan never had CW (in fact he used them, after which the Republicas thwarted effort to put export restrictions on him [as requested by groups like HRW]). Sure, someone may have absconded with one or a few shells, but they were in pretty bad condition, and hardly a workable arsenal. Only when you invade the country and put yourself in position to be hit with such bombs, does any danger even arise. But FWIW, all of the 2000+ deaths in Iraq have been due to conventional weapons, accidents, etc., and not a single soldier has died from CW attack.

� Found: 1,000 radioactive materials--ideal for radioactive dirty bombs

Oh, you mean the radionuclides you can find in pretty much any medical facility and teaching hospital? The stuff that the coalition forces made no effort to secure in the invasion???

� Found: 17 chemical warheads--some containing cyclosarin, a nerve agent five times more powerful than sarin

Nonsense. None were filled. These were found (and secured) by the U.N. teams before the invasion, and were probably just misplaced. But, as I noted, none were actually loaded with an actual CW.

This is only a partial list of the deadly weapons Miniter reveals in his new book,...

So the other disinformation is even shoddier?

Cheers,


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: leftydee
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:30 PM

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to getcha. Being on the Best Seller List means little. Lots of fiction has that honor. Who cares what conservative websites say? Take a look at The Drudge Report and Conservative(Jeff Gannon)Guy.com, just paranoid nonsense. Terrorists don't have to cross the Rio Grande at night. There are lots of other points of entry. I live near Lake St Clair, a short boat ride from Canada at night. 5 minutes tops from Windsor to Detroit. Then a 15 minute drive to the largest Arab community outside the Middle East for cover. OOOOOOH Scarey!!! Be watchful, yes.... but get the knot out of your guts. Relax... life is good


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:36 PM

It's all good. Uh, has anyone actually GOT one of the WMDs?


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:43 PM

Richard Miniter:

1. Disinformation : 22 Media Myths That Undermine the War on Terror
2. Shadow War: The Untold Story of How Bush Is Winning the War on Terror
3. Losing Bin Laden : How Bill Clinton's Failures Unleashed Global Terror


Coming from Richard Miniter:

"How I Made Millions Scaring The Pants Of Yokels While Propping Up My RW Pals: A three volume boxed set of RW political screeds."

No thanks.

Say, G-Duck and GUEST,A: Care to explain how Dubya is "winning the war on terror"? Is Amman the new "flypaper"? Oh, yeah, and where's Osama been Forgotten?

Cheers,


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:55 PM

GOOD eye, Arne. Great post.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Geoduck
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:14 PM

Care to 'splain why the claim GWB lied about WMDs is not Bullshite?

If Joe Wilson has written a book that does not mean he is a liar but if someone else on the right side of the aisle writes a book, everything he says is a lie.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:15 PM

No one said that. Produce one of the weapons. That I would believe. Where are the damned weapons, Geoduck?


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Metchosin
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:16 PM

I wonder if Guest, Geoducks sattelite has been hacked lately and he's now predisposed to rapid eye blinking too.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:31 PM

Read all about it.


The sire above is excellent, BTW. However, I would like to know where the WMDs are. I don't really care what anyone wrote in a book. I've read books about Yeti/Sasquatch, too. Show me one!


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Peace
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:31 PM

The sire above is excellent, and so is the SITE!


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:51 PM

How sad. A small, wretched, devastated, and starving country has a few pathetic remnants of WMDs left (according to the book) and it cannot even manage to use them to any noticeable effect when invaded full scale and occupied by the biggest military power on Earth. My, my, how terribly dangerous Iraq must be! About as dangerous as Denmark was to Nazi Germany...


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:56 PM

Some time ago, the U. S. Army found some long-buried stuff from Saddam's little war with Iran. None of it fits the appelation, WMD. This was well-reported in the press.
Perhaps Guest's tale is from a blown-up version of this story.
I listen regularly to the BBC News, and no WMD report has been carried that I remember, other than a report on these old, long-buried and forgotten weapons.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:40 PM

If it were true Bush et al would be shouting it from the rooftops and parading the spoils on every tv program they can commandeer. It is ridiculous to believe anyone has the power to prevent him and his cadre of crowing about such supposed "validation" for his Oil War.

Having some popular noteriety does not make one an authority, either, ala Pat Robertson and his calling for the assisnation of Chavez, blaming a hurricane in Florida on "godlessness," and now his threat of coming armageddon to the folks of Dover, PA.

It's all a dream, time to wake up!


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 12:43 AM

B.B.C.
Bullshit, Balderdash and utter Crap?


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 12:57 AM

That would be BBUC.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 01:59 AM

Odd how the radical Left was always accused of conspiracy theories and now that the tide has turned, its the radical right that is delving into conspiracy theories and fictional history.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 07:30 AM

Yes, GUEST, the right has a full time revisionary staff to clean up behind Bush... Problem is that they apparently have been swamped here lately... And their office manager, Karl Rove, has run into a little bad luck himself...

Ahhhhh, not to mention that there are more folks paying attention now that Bush and Co. are gettin' into the working man's wallet with some degree of regularity...

Can't hide everything behind a flag, MASCAR, country music and Budwieser...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 07:53 AM

Bobert,

"1/1,000,000th of the WMD that the US brought with 'um to occyupy Iraq..."

Care to tell us WHAT WMD the US took into Iraq?



"So exactly, G-duck, what is yer point here???"

That the anti-war folks who stated there were not any materials are liars...

And there was NO grand jury indictment against Rove, so you might want to admit you were wrong there, too...



Peace,

The claim was that Saddam had materials and a program to produce WMDs, NOT that he had active weapons (though it sounds as if he did)


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 08:15 AM

thread.cfm?threadid=77314&messages=119

thread.cfm?threadid=70594&messages=167


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 08:32 AM

Peace,

Good site. As wih all reports, each of the documents will only be believed by those who already agree with it...


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 09:36 AM

The claim was that he had WMD, and we were in imminent danger of him using them. Anything else is revising history.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Guest Teribus
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 09:37 AM

"....into the real world here in Mudville???"

You are kidding aren't you Bobert.

If this is what represents real life to you pal, you want to get out more.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 09:42 AM

"The claim was that he had WMD, and we were in imminent danger of him using them. Anything else is revising history. "
......................................................................

The Security Council,

          Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999, and all the relevant statements of its President,

          Recalling also its resolution 1382 (2001) of 29 November 2001 and its intention to implement it fully,

          Recognizing the threat Iraq's non-compliance with Council resolutions and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security,

          Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area,

          Further recalling that its resolution 687 (1991) imposed obligations on Iraq as a necessary step for achievement of its stated objective of restoring international peace and security in the area,

          Deploring the fact that Iraq has not provided an accurate, full, final, and complete disclosure, as required by resolution 687 (1991), of all aspects of its programmes to develop weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles with a range greater than one hundred and fifty kilometres, and of all holdings of such weapons, their components and production facilities and locations, as well as all other nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to nuclear-weapons-usable material,

          Deploring further that Iraq repeatedly obstructed immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to sites designated by the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), failed to cooperate fully and unconditionally with UNSCOM and IAEA weapons inspectors, as required by resolution 687 (1991), and ultimately ceased all cooperation with UNSCOM and the IAEA in 1998,

          Deploring the absence, since December 1998, in Iraq of international monitoring, inspection, and verification, as required by relevant resolutions, of weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, in spite of the Council's repeated demands that Iraq provide immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), established in resolution 1284 (1999) as the successor organization to UNSCOM, and the IAEA, and regretting the consequent prolonging of the crisis in the region and the suffering of the Iraqi people,

          Deploring also that the Government of Iraq has failed to comply with its commitments pursuant to resolution 687 (1991) with regard to terrorism, pursuant to resolution 688 (1991) to end repression of its civilian population and to provide access by international humanitarian organizations to all those in need of assistance in Iraq, and pursuant to resolutions 686 (1991), 687 (1991), and 1284 (1999) to return or cooperate in accounting for Kuwaiti and third country nationals wrongfully detained by Iraq, or to return Kuwaiti property wrongfully seized by Iraq,

          Recalling that in its resolution 687 (1991) the Council declared that a ceasefire would be based on acceptance by Iraq of the provisions of that resolution, including the obligations on Iraq contained therein,

          Determined to ensure full and immediate compliance by Iraq without conditions or restrictions with its obligations under resolution 687 (1991) and other relevant resolutions and recalling that the resolutions of the Council constitute the governing standard of Iraqi compliance,

....

http://www.un.int/usa/sres-iraq.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 09:47 AM

Not quite correct TIA,

"The (UN/UNSCOM)claim was that he had WMD (Stockpiles or stockpiles of material to produce them), and (the evaluation of the Security Services and advisors to the Governments of those nations who joined the "Coalition of the Willing was that) we (, our national interests, our allies, and the region) were in imminent danger of him using them. Anything else is revising history.

The point has long been forgotten that the aim of the exercise was to prove beyond doubt that Iraq did not possess WMD or retain any WMD production capability.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 09:50 AM

Okay fellas. Now why don't you go cut and paste from speeches by Bush, Cheyney, Rice, et al. in the run-up to the war. Please post the quotes that show that they were claiming that he had a "program", but no actual WMD. I'm waiting....


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 09:55 AM

TIA,

And I am waiting for the examples of how the anti-war folks demanded that Saddam comply with the UN resolutions, and prevent the need for action on the part of the US and allies.


Still waiting...


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 11:29 AM

These WMD wre found and have been reported. That is not the arguement. The knock against Bush is that huge stockpiles of WMD not been found, as had been predicted.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 11:46 AM

The biggest WMD I've seen is the human mouth.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 12:57 PM

I happen--again--to agree with beardedbruce. (This is twice in three months, bb, and it's gotta stop.)

The UN was continuing to get a run-around from Iraq over searches, etc. They kept getting stalled by this or that government official. That is true--and pretty much accepted by all except people who still think the world is flat.

The other issue being discussed is that of the US deciding to invade Iraq without UN sanction.

I do not doubt that the White House was fed some information that was less than accurate--at whose behest I have no idea. The US wanted to get into Iraq. And it did despite most of the allies from the Gulf War declining the offer to participate.

I think that George Bush is too stupid to knowingly carry-off the verisimilitude that was necessary to engage the American Congress/people in the present war. I think differently about Cheney, Rove, Wolfowitz, etc. The advisors to the President are dangerous people. Wars create tremendous opportunities to make money. A few companies have made megabucks on this war. Cui bono? Ask the age-old question and then ya have a place to look. IMO.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 01:02 PM

Peace,

Ask the age-old question about the Iraqi WMD program, as well....France, Germany, Russia- All of whom wanted to NOT enforce the UN resolutions.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: pdq
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 01:16 PM

beardedbruce,

Can you re-post the British intelligence report about chemical, biological and nuclear weapons? It was dated 1999 I believe. Includes items such as "16,000 litres of antharx".

There are so many threads on this and related subjects that I can no longer locate it.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 01:27 PM

This one?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2002/iraq-020924-usia01.htm


If not, it should be in one of the two threads I referenced earlier...


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 01:36 PM

Teribus: The point has long been forgotten that the aim of the exercise was to prove beyond doubt that Iraq did not possess WMD or retain any WMD production capability.

More revisionist cr**. I heard rumour that the Federated States of Micronesia also have not been able to prove beyond doubt that they do not possess any WMD or any WMD production capability. Bombing will commence in 30 minutes....

As for this proof: Someone wanting to prove this would have let the inspectors finish their jobs. Someone who really didn't care about the truth of the matter (or worse, who knew it was a lie) would start a war against the suspect country (strangely enough, in the process not bothering to take any measures to secure any potentially dangerous materials that were suspected of being there, but oddly enough, rushing to protect the oil ministry) before that actual state of affairs was known. Sadly, everything that the aborted inspections did show indicated that in fact the suspicions about WoMD were (in the words of one of the inspectors) "garbage, garbage, and more garbage". You'd think a sane person would at that point say, "Hey, waiddaminnnit, this stuff isn't checking out, let's re-evalutae before getting thousands of people (including innocents) killed." In fact, that is what same people did. The U.N. Security Council refused to authorise the invasion. Dubya, after promising to seek at least a "show of hands" in the Security Council, decided against even this when it became apparent that he couldn't even manage a majority of the Security Council (despite arm-twisting and bribes) for his invasion. The rest is, sadly, history, and a rather sanguine page therein.

BB: And I am waiting for the examples of how the anti-war folks demanded that Saddam comply with the UN resolutions, and prevent the need for action on the part of the US and allies.

Saddam was complying. Strangely enough, Dubya had two different psychotic moments, and stated an obvious, glaring falsehood when he said: "[Saddam] wouldn't let [the inspectors in] [a]nd, therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power." (Dubya repeated this hallucination on another occasion as well).

Yet you folks continue to defend this moron?

Cheers,


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 02:17 PM

Arne,

"I heard rumour that the Federated States of Micronesia also have not been able to prove beyond doubt that they do not possess any WMD or any WMD production capability. Bombing will commence in 30 minutes...."

If there had been 14 years of non-compliance with UN resolutions, and FSM was under the legal constraints ( cease-fire terms) that Iraq was, I would not even give them 30 minutes.




"Saddam was complying."

Not according to the UN, who declared him in NON-compliance with 1441 on the deadline date.



You seem to like to revise history. Why bother even looking at the facts, if you can make up what you want to believe happened?


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Jaze
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 03:02 PM

What Kat said, exactly. Considering how low Bush is in current polls and the recent drubbing Blair took, they'd be all over the place with this info. And remember, Bush admitted there was an "Intelligence failure" regarding WMD's. Wouldn't is just be conveninet now to "suddenly" find WMD's? I never say never,but I have doubts about this.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 03:40 PM

Some of us were talking about the chemicals, nuclear materials, and missles that violated the UN resolutions from the begining- but it just was not what the anti-war folks here wanted to hear.


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Subject: RE: BS: WMDs WERE found in Iraq!
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 03:49 PM

BB: Just trying to show how stoopid your "prove beyond doubt" is. (OBTW, that little manoeuvre of yours is also called "moving the goalposts"). You see, BB, that the FSM (not the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the other FSM) wasn't under sanctions in no way makes them any the less dangerous for having WoMD. If there's the least possibility that that they have such, then even if they aren't inclined to skin your children alive and infect your wife with pustulent anthrax today, who knows what the morrow may bring, eh? Maybe they'll be bothered by Dubya's inflection in his latest speech of historical revisionism, or just get annoyed at the next seasons episodes of "Desperate Housewives", and suddenly want to kill us all. Or they may get invaded by terra-ists who appropriate all these WoMD. You see, the potential is there, and aren't the consequences of a mistake too horrible to contemplate?

Then there's the equally stoopid notion that the only proper action in response to such hallicinatory paranoia is to go to war. In fact, quite a range of responses do present themselves to those that look rationally ... and in fact, a majority of the U.N. Security Council (so beloved by quote-mining RW apologists) thought that, given the absence of any significant findings on the ground whatsoever (and, hopefully, a growing realisation that the "intelligence" that the U.S. had trumpeted so forcefully and unequivocally was "garbage, garbage, and more garbage"), a more rational course was to let the inspections continue, and then re-evaluate what courses were prudent.

At this point, I see that a majority of the U.S. people (as well as vast majorities around the world) see that the invasion was unjustified, hasty, enormously costly in human lives, and in the end, in fact, quite counter-productive. Summing up, just a damn pi$$-poor idea, the kind that makes you think, "what were those guys smoking?"....

No escaping that, BB. You will maintain your honour and dignity a bit better if you accept that now, rather than later when your intransigence is seen more as stubbornness and obstinate and deliberate ignorance, rather than just a case of getting fooled by those that you thought were honourable men.....

[Arne]: "Saddam was complying."

BB: Not according to the UN, who declared him in NON-compliance with 1441 on the deadline date.

Balderdash. And despite Dubya's promise to actualy seek a UNSC show of hands (even if he wouldn't succeed in getting the approval of the Council), he saw that it would be a political embarrassment for him because he wouldn't even get a majority of the Council, and so he decided to break that promise and go it alone (with ramifications down the line that have been quite untoward....).

Cheers,


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