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BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher-13 Oct 1925

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Paco Rabanne 13 Oct 05 - 08:28 AM
mooman 13 Oct 05 - 09:28 AM
GUEST 13 Oct 05 - 09:47 AM
Dave Hanson 13 Oct 05 - 09:52 AM
Peace 13 Oct 05 - 09:56 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 13 Oct 05 - 10:01 AM
Seiri Omaar 13 Oct 05 - 10:01 AM
Peace 13 Oct 05 - 10:02 AM
Stu 13 Oct 05 - 10:26 AM
Arnie 13 Oct 05 - 10:31 AM
GUEST,Common Sense 13 Oct 05 - 11:03 AM
ossonflags 13 Oct 05 - 11:05 AM
Paco Rabanne 13 Oct 05 - 12:02 PM
GUEST 13 Oct 05 - 12:31 PM
GUEST,DB 13 Oct 05 - 01:44 PM
GUEST,Boab 14 Oct 05 - 04:03 AM
Dave Hanson 14 Oct 05 - 05:15 AM
Sttaw Legend 14 Oct 05 - 05:15 AM
GUEST,Piers 14 Oct 05 - 05:35 AM
Paco Rabanne 14 Oct 05 - 05:41 AM
Gedpipes 14 Oct 05 - 05:43 AM
Tam the man 14 Oct 05 - 07:25 AM
Paco Rabanne 14 Oct 05 - 09:25 AM
Gedpipes 14 Oct 05 - 09:42 AM
Terry K 14 Oct 05 - 12:28 PM
TheBigPinkLad 14 Oct 05 - 02:25 PM
GUEST,Boab 14 Oct 05 - 03:25 PM
GUEST,rarelamb 14 Oct 05 - 03:50 PM
TheBigPinkLad 14 Oct 05 - 05:05 PM
Terry K 14 Oct 05 - 06:35 PM
Peace 14 Oct 05 - 06:38 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Oct 05 - 07:03 PM
GUEST 14 Oct 05 - 09:42 PM
GUEST,Mr. Fancy Pants 15 Oct 05 - 01:12 AM
Big Al Whittle 15 Oct 05 - 01:32 AM
Richard Bridge 15 Oct 05 - 04:04 AM
Big Al Whittle 15 Oct 05 - 04:16 AM
GUEST,unemployed old miner 15 Oct 05 - 09:57 AM
Epona 15 Oct 05 - 10:10 AM
Tam the man 15 Oct 05 - 10:19 AM
Folkiedave 15 Oct 05 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 09:09 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 09:24 AM
Paco Rabanne 17 Oct 05 - 09:34 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 10:18 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 10:26 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 10:31 AM
GUEST,rarelamb 17 Oct 05 - 10:50 AM
mooman 17 Oct 05 - 10:54 AM
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Subject: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 08:28 AM

Happy 80th to the greatest living Englishman.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 09:28 AM

I do not wish her ill but please excuse me if I refrain from celebrating this particular anniversary.

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 09:47 AM

I just can't bring myself to do it. Ha-ha-hap....no it won't come out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 09:52 AM

Many happy returns Maggie, I hope you live to a decrepit and painful age.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Peace
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 09:56 AM

Proof that Neocons come in both sexes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:01 AM

Absolutely disgraceful behavior.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Seiri Omaar
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:01 AM

How you knew it was her birthday I don't want to know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Peace
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:02 AM

"Absolutely disgraceful behavior."

I agree her behaviour was disgraceful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Stu
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:26 AM

Happy Birthday to you
You rotten old moo
You closed all our dockyards
and all our mines too


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Arnie
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 10:31 AM

When I was a student, I recall going on a protest march against Maggie for stopping free school milk. 'Maggie Thatcher, milk snatcher' was the chant - and that was before she became PM!! In a lot of deprived areas, school milk was the only decent sustenance that most of the kids saw, but this just didn't wash with Maggie so she cancelled it. No matter that under her 'reign' city financiers were awarding themselves million pound bonuses - as long as the working classes were kept in their place then all was well with the world. I see that she is still sufficiently vindictive to have failed to invite Michael Heseltine (her ex-defence minister) to the birthday bash....he must have really pissed her off!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Common Sense
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 11:03 AM

Hated her at the time. Appreciate her now. What a marvellous woman.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: ossonflags
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 11:05 AM

And you could leave your front door open them days and a copper could give you a clip round the ear if you did owt wrong............... just ask a few miners.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 12:02 PM

So you didn't get an invite either then Arnie? I did.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 12:31 PM

Were you washing your hare?


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 13 Oct 05 - 01:44 PM

So, the old bat's edged a bit closer to the fiery pit where she'll be tortured by the souls of redundant miners forever!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 04:03 AM

She's had far too many birthdays.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:15 AM

Guest common sense my arse.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:15 AM

Margaret Thatcher dies and strolls up the pearly staircase to the pearly gates, where she is confronted by St. Peter, brandishing a clipboard. "Name," says St. Peter. "Margaret Thatcher," she replies.

St. Peter checks through all the lists on his clipboard but cannot find the name of the former British leader. "I am sorry," he says, "you cannot come in. Your place is downstairs, in Hell.
Thatcher turns and walks down the stairs.

A short time later the phone rings. St. Peter answers, and a voice says, "Hello Peter, it is the Devil speaking. You will have to take that bloody woman after all - she has only been here for ten minutes and she has closed half the furnaces to reduce capacity."


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Piers
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:35 AM

You can personally direct your birthday greetings to her here at www.happybirthdaymargaretthatcher.ca

An extraordinary woman and leader, she was three times Prime Minister of England. Ah, bless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:41 AM

Thanks Piers. I have sent her a message thanking her for last nights star studded party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Gedpipes
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:43 AM

El Tedderino
It looks like you are not taking many mudcatters to this particular party with you me old son.
Grow a beard, put down that flamenco guitar, put a capp on your mandola and come and join us. The water's lovely... sort of
Blues skies
Ged


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Tam the man
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 07:25 AM

She's 80 aye in Human years but what is her true age, Hitler in drag.

At lest he had the cortisty to kill himself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 09:25 AM

Ged,
    Wash your mouth out with soap! Only didicoys, ruffians and salty sea-dogs sport beards nowadays.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Gedpipes
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 09:42 AM

A woman who did so much for the country though don't you think Eric

'The pursuit of equality is a mirage. Opportunity means nothing unless it inlcudes the right to be unequal' MT 16 sept 79

Ged


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Terry K
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 12:28 PM

Lest non-Brits get the wrong impression - this forum is probably about 99 to 1 against Thatcher. In the country at large it's probably more like 70 to 30 in favour of her.

No, I have no basis for my instant statistic, but I'll bet it's close.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 02:25 PM

I'll take a slice of that bet, Terry K. Unless you accidentally omitted the word 'death' from the end of the second sentence ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 03:25 PM

Ah, yes--"three times prime monster of England". One of the few times when such a smug little-englander statement gives no offence to Scots, Welsh or Irish people. If 70% of English people think of her as a decent woman--never mind a decent prime minister---then it says little for the character of the English people. Having said that, I know the English people better than that. Most of them know just what Thatcher was. She even drove the TORIES into chucking her out! She came very,very close to breaking up the UK. And perhaps that achievement would have been one of the better results of her despotic tenure. She destroyed the reputation of a union leader who suggested she was about to "close twenty collieries". She branded him a liar. She then proceeded to close practically ALL of the coal industry. She blatantly--and brutally-- used Scotland as a testing ground for her abominable "poll tax", almost waking the Scots finally to the fact that they were---and are---the dumping ground for every variety of crap that the British government or MOD felt should be safely out of London and the home counties. Think Dounreay, think anthrax on the Hebrides, think uranium tipped ammunition fired into the Solway, think commando training grounds, think low-flight "training". Oh, yes, Thatcher was much-loved---in many boardrooms, in the good ole US OF A, and extolled to the high heavens in the Telegraph, the Times and every editorial in the Murdoch muck-heap for her heroic stand on behalf of nuke weapons [WMDs??], which she even had the gall to fit into a special sermon in the church of England! Her pompous appearance on the dais to lord it over the victory march past after the Falklands scrap reminded me vividly of the posturings of Mussolini. I have been as guilty as any in remarking what a wonderful successor Tony is. Well,I'll admit there are many similarities; but I think we'd have to cross the Atlantic to the heroic figures who fought and won over the post man and some odd home-guard types in Grenada, or who listened to god and bravely assaulted the WMD-wielding Iraqis.
I reckon "I detest the woman" would have been enough. I had a little time on my hands-----


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 03:50 PM

I dream of the day when all of politicians around the world were like the Iron Lady.

Like Atlas, she had a backbone strong enough to carry the world. In the tradition of former great PMs she promoted UK strength and faith in the power of the individual. Like Churchill, she firmed the resolve of somewhat, dare I say 'wimpy' American presidents.

She is the stuff of legends and no Brit should ever be apologetic of her tenure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 05:05 PM

rare indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Terry K
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 06:35 PM

Now now, GUEST rarelamb, never let a bit of common sense and reality get in the way of decent left wing rhetoric. Surely the magnitude of Thatcher's achievements pale into insignificance next to the real truths of Blair, Brown, Prescott, Straw ........


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 06:38 PM

"She is the stuff of legends and no Brit should ever be apologetic of her tenure."

Her politics, yes. But not her tenure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 07:03 PM

The blame for Thatcherism lies not so much with the woman herself, but with the people who voted for her.

But remember, most people always voted against her. That's the system we've got, then and now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 05 - 09:42 PM

Damn, I'll have to piss in the lavatory again, but one day.......


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,Mr. Fancy Pants
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:12 AM

Happy Birthday Maggie. You were always a the pinnacle standard for good sensible fashion. The world surely needs someone like to represent all that is good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:32 AM

she made a very good job of protecting my right to be unequal. I didn't realise that was what she was up to at the time. perhaps we could award her the iron cross with oak leaves in recognition of the zeal with which she achieved this strange ambition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 04:04 AM

Not merely detestable, but also evil - without even the excuse of stupidity like Ronnie Ray-gun and Dubya.

May she have a slow and painful death, and be a long time in hell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 04:16 AM

Richard ...! really!
if an afterlife existed, I'd be worried that you actually meant that.I have given a great deal of thought to the sfterlife. I explain it all in the title track to my album St Peter and John Dillinger, which I will try to put on the website later this weekend.

theres quite enough nastiness in this world without continuing it to the next.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,unemployed old miner
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 09:57 AM

Guest rarelamb you fucking tosser, I'll bet you don't ilve in a coal mining area, you sound like a yuppie who got rich by embracing the Thatcher policies that being greedy and selfish is good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Epona
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 10:10 AM

One year closer to facing what she's done...

E


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Tam the man
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 10:19 AM

Magraret Thatcher's butler told her once that when she died, it would be on a holiday, when she asked which one, he said they don't care it'll be a holiday when you die


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Folkiedave
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 12:37 PM

The Tories chucked her out when they realised she was a barmpot. It just took them longer than the rest of us. And she did like her whiskey.

Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 09:09 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=104083

"The choice before the people was to take further strides in the direction of the corporatist all-powerful State or to restore the balance in favour of the individual. The Labour Party stood for the former. We offered the latter. The difference is clear-cut, and we steadily put it across during the campaign. It was indeed a watershed election. The result was decisive, with a difference of about 2 million votes between the two major parties, which was the largest difference since 1935."

"How is society to be improved? By millions of people resolving that they will give their own children a better life than they had themselves. That is the true driving force of society—the desire of the individual to do better for himself and his family. For too long individuals have been unable to benefit their families sufficiently from the fruits of their efforts. That truth pervades all too many areas of our national life. It affects management's willingness to take on responsibility. It reduces the readiness of business men to bear extra risk. Just as serious are the consequences for those at the bottom of the income scale, where an extra pound earned can be lost in tax and by the withdrawal of means-tested benefits."

"I turn to the second theme—that of restoring choice to the individual. That choice was progressively diminished during the lifetime of the last Government. Many, many people wish to see choice return, whether it is choice over how they spend their own money or more choice in housing and education, and some choice in health. During the election campaign many people said that at least the Conservative Party gave people choice and that this was quite different from the other party."


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 09:24 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=104431

"Those in the public sector have a duty to those in the private sector not to take out so much in pay that they cause others unemployment. That is why we point out that every time high wage settlements in nationalised monopolies lead to higher charges for telephones, electricity, coal and water, they can drive companies out of business and cost other people their jobs.

If spending money like water was the answer to our country's problems, we would have no problems now. If ever a nation has spent, spent, spent and spent again, ours has. Today that dream is over. All of that money has got us nowhere but it still has to come from somewhere. Those who urge us to relax the squeeze, to spend yet more money indiscriminately in the belief that it will help the unemployed and the small businessman are not being kind or compassionate or caring.[fo 10]

They are not the friends of the unemployed or the small business. They are asking us to do again the very thing that caused the problems in the first place. We have made this point repeatedly. "

"But it is not the State that creates a healthy society. When the State grows too powerful people feel that they count for less and less. The State drains society, not only of its wealth but of initiative, of energy, the will to improve and innovate as well as to preserve what is best. Our aim is to let people feel that they count for more and more. If we cannot trust the deepest instincts of our people we should not be in politics at all. Some aspects of our present society really do offend those instincts."

"Not for us the disastrous fantasies of unilateral disarmament, of withdrawal from NATO, of abandoning Northern Ireland.

The irresponsibility of the Left on defence increases as the dangers which we face loom larger. We for our part, under Francis Pym 's brilliant leadership, have chosen a defence policy which potential foes will respect.

We are acquiring, with the co-operation of the United States Government, the Trident missile system. This will ensure the credibility of our strategic deterrent until the end of the century and beyond, and it was very important for the reputation of Britain abroad that we should keep our independent nuclear deterrent as well as for our citizens here.

We have agreed to the stationing of Cruise missiles in this country. The unilateralists object, but the recent willingness of the Soviet Government to open a new round of arms control negotiations shows the wisdom of our firmness.

We intend to maintain and, where possible, to improve our conventional forces so as to pull our weight in the Alliance. We have no wish to seek a free ride at the expense of our Allies. We will play our full part. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 09:34 AM

Excellent examples of some fine speeches there rarelamb!


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 09:58 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=104579

" I can promise you two things. The first is the friendship of the[fo 1] British people; the second is that the years of socialist bumbling are at an end.

I am proud to lead a Conservative administration in Britain. For me, and I know for you, too, conservatism does not mean maintenance of the status quo. It means maintenance of the old values, the only background against which one could make the changes and adaptations which have to be made to keep abreast of the technological change that we need to embrace for a prosperous future.

Conservatism means harnessing, but still more, the liberation of the fundamental strengths and resources which make a country great, which make its people prosperous and self-reliant.[fo 2]

As a Conservative I want determined and decisive government. But that's something very different from an all-powerful government. You and I, Mr. President, believe in strong governments in areas where only governments can do the job, areas where governments can and must be strong, strong in the defense of the nation, strong in protecting law and order, strong in promoting a sound currency. If we do these things very well we shall indeed be leaders of strong government doing the things that only government can do.

But for too long and in too many places we've seen government assume the role of universal provider and universal arbiter. In many areas of our daily life there are hard but essential choices to be made. But in a free society those choices ought not to be made by government but by free men and women and managers and workforce alike whose lives and livelihood are directly affected.

Mr. President, wall-to-wall government is no substitute for that freedom of choice. Wall-to-wall government is economically inefficient and morally demeaning to the individual. Just take a look at those countries where the art has been brought to its cold, callous perfection to see where that leads. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 10:18 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=105314

"Since I came to Perth four years ago this week, on the morrow of our first great victory together, much has been accomplished. But much remains to be done.
The Task We Faced

The problems that confronted us when we came to office were daunting.

Labour had borrowed and left Britain bowed down by debt.

We were shocked by the winter of discontent. Shop stewards usurped the role of management and sometimes seemed more powerful than the Government itself. Britain's defences were undermined and our police demoralised. Inflation was taking off again. In short, we were a nation which had all too plainly lost its way, and almost abandoned hope of finding it again.

And we found a world poised on the brink of the worst recession since the 1930s.

It was, without a doubt, the bleakest prospect facing any newly elected government in Britain since the War. We could have bought a little time with short-term soft options. But too many previous Governments had done that—you elected us to tackle the real problem. And we've had the courage to do it.

And so we set in hand a programme to cure the nation's sickness and restore its health and reputation.[fo 1]

We had to break the habit of inflation once and for all, before the habit became an addiction.

We had to set about repaying the debts Labour left behind.

We had to restore worthwhile rewards for leadership and enterprise and give them room to breathe again and put out shoots of healthy long-term growth.

We had to restore to management responsibility to manage, and to employees their right to be consulted by the union that claimed to represent them.

We had to uproot the thickets of bureaucracy and controls in Whitehall and the town halls.

We had to rebuild the nation's ability to defend itself in an increasingly dangerous world.

We had to increase the numbers and the authority of the police and let them know that they had a Government which would back them to the hilt in enforcing the law.

We had to give council tenants the opportunity to buy their own homes.

We had to get a fairer balance of benefits and payments in the European Community.

We had to prove to friend and foe that those who looked to us for their defence would find once again that our word is our bond.

These things we have done. What we could not do—for it is not in the power of any Government—was to shift overnight the ingrained habits of half a lifetime.

Had both sides of industry realised that in future they had to take responsibility for their own actions, and that they would not automatically be bailed out regardless of their performance, hundreds of thousands of worthwhile and productive jobs would have survived the recession.[fo 2]

But the convictions that a pay rise every year was each man's birthright, and that jobs had somehow nothing to do with satisfying the customer, died hard. When proof arrived that times had changed, it was often too late.
Labour's Scare Stories

And there is something else that we have done.

We have exploded those scare stories with which our opponents tried so hard to cling to power in the 1979 election.

Let me remind you of a few of them.

They said we would cut pensions. Instead, we've raised them by two-thirds—well ahead of prices.

They said we'd dismantle the National Health Service. Instead, we have nearly doubled spending on the Health Service here in Scotland—and today there are many more doctors, dentists, and nurses—almost 6,000 of them—in your Scottish hospitals and health centres, than when we took office.

They said we'd cripple education. Instead expenditure per child is at an all-time record, and so is the proportion of teachers to pupils; and a higher proportion of our young men and women are going on to full-time further education than ever before.

They said we'd be the dear-food party. Just let's look at the record. When they were in power, food prices more than doubled. What you got for £10 at the beginning cost you £22 at the end. Under this Government, what you could buy for £10 when we took office would cost you £1350 today. Not good enough, but getting better. And in the last year food prices have risen by less than a penny in the £.

And may I remind you that inflation—now at 46%; and going down is at its lowest level for 15 years? That is an achievement of which we can be justly proud, and for which we have every reason to be grateful to Geoffrey Howe.[fo 3]

They said we would starve the Scottish Development Agency of funds and let it die. Instead we have nearly doubled the cash it has had to spend productively in Scotland.

I remind you of these scares because in the next three weeks there will be plenty more.
What They Stand For

There will be plenty more because if there's one thing our opponents don't want to talk about, it is their own policies. So you must see to it that every home in Scotland understands precisely what they stand for:

First, this Labour Party wants us to abandon our own independent nuclear deterrent; a deterrent which has helped to keep the peace for nearly 40 years; a deterrent which has been endorsed by every Labour Leader— Attlee , Gaitskell , Wilson and Callaghan —but not this one.

And they want us to do it without a corresponding reduction from the Soviet Union. As Mr. Andropov put it when asked whether he would agree to one-sided disarmament, "We are not a naive people".

And as if that was not enough, they want to serve notice to quit on every American nuclear base in Britain, many of which have been here for 30 years and which are part of NATO defence. Not exactly the action of a reliable ally. Nor does it recognise the tremendous contribution made by the United States to the defence of free Europe.

This Labour Party would take Britain out of the Common Market—putting at risk 50,000 Scottish jobs and millions of £s of new investment.

This Labour Party has adopted a deliberate policy of inflation in spite of everything we've suffered from rising prices in the last ten years.

This Labour Party would take away the council tenant's right to buy his own home which has transformed the lives of half a million families.

This Labour Party would put Britain back under the dominance of the Trade Unions. They would repeal our legislation which has helped to restore the balance between the unions and the community and given individual rights to union members.[fo 4]

This Labour Party would take over control of how your pension fund invests the money you have entrusted to it for your retirement.

Without a shadow of a doubt, this Labour Party has the most extreme and most damaging programme ever placed before the British electorate. No wonder they usually try to talk of anything but that.
The Other Danger: Liberal S D P

But voting Labour is not the only way of putting Labour in.

When Labour came to power in 1974, they did so on their smallest post-War vote to date. And who put them in? The Liberals and the Nationalists in Scotland. And do you remember what happened in 1976 when the Labour Government was tottering? Who came to the rescue? It was those self-same Liberals with the notorious Lib-Lab Pact who propped up the most illiberal Government of modern times.

Today the Liberals have new allies: the S D P: the very men (and women) who, when members of the Labour Government, destroyed our direct grant and grammar schools, who undermined respect for the family in the name of a misleading permissiveness, and who nationalised still more of our industries. "

"Mr President, when we met in Perth last year it was in the shadow of great events then taking place on the other side of the world. Not for the first time in our history, the courage, skill and sheer professionalism of the armed forces of the Crown, went on to earn for them the admiration of the world. And if today we walk a little taller—and I believe we do—then it is those brave young men who deserve the praise. But they have achieved something even more important: their deeds have made the world a safer place for all of us.

That truth is worthy of a moment's reflection. In recent months we have heard a lot about the protest lines at Holy Loch and Greenham Common—and elsewhere in Western Europe. Now I do not doubt the sincerity and indeed the idealism of many of these people. The real aims of some of them is another matter. But if a hostile Government was tempted to pursue its demands by armed aggression, which example would be more likely to make it pause: the renunciation of the means of national self-defence which the banners call for? Or the swift and sure response of our young men in the South Atlantic just a year ago?

As Lord Home said only a few weeks ago: "I can find nothing in Christian teaching that forbids me to defend myself when faced with an evil aggressor who aims to destroy my religion and all the values which I treasure". "


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 10:26 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=105450

"That is the great role of the Western democracies in this age. It is our duty—to understand the threat we face—to be strong enough to deter any aggressor—to engage in and win the battle of ideas and, as Churchill always sought to do, to bind ever more closely those nations who cherish the dignity of man and the power of the human spirit.[fo 1]
The threat

First, the threat. We have to deal with: the Soviet Union. But we must deal with it not as we would like it to be, but as it is. We live on the same planet and we have to go on sharing it. We stand ready therefore—if and when the circumstances are right—to talk to the Soviet leadership.

But we must not fall into the trap of projecting our own morality onto the Soviet leaders. They do not share our aspirations: they are not constrained by our ethics, they have always considered themselves exempt from the rules that bind other states. They claim to speak in the name of humanity—but they oppress the individual. They pose as the champion of free nations—but in their own empire they practise total control. They invoke the word democracy—but they practise single-party rule by a self-appointed oligarchy. They pretend to support the freedom of the ballot-box- but they are protected by a system of one man, one vote—and one candidate.

Their power is sustained by myth. Presenting themselves to the world as the fount of progress and revolution, they preside over a modern version of the early tyrannies of history. A structure so rigid that it totally precludes the normal processes of questioning, discussion and change.

They have little contact with their own people, still less with the free world. "


"We have watched the depredations of the Soviet Union in the 66 years since its creation. While the Soviet Union has imposed its rule on its neighbours and drawn an iron curtain between East and West, we in Great Britain have given freedom and independence to more than 40 countries whose populations now number more than one thousand million—a quarter of the world's total.

The readiness of Russia to use force outside its borders is manifest. It is active in every continent, reaching deep into the domestic affairs of independent countries—openly or covertly. By using the tools of subversion. "

"We are confronted by a power of great military strength, which has consistently used force against its neighbours, which wields the threat of force as a weapon of policy, and which is bent on subverting and destroying the confidence and stability of the Western world. That is the threat we face, what is our response"

"No amount of propaganda, of spurious half-truths can disguise the determination of the Soviet Union to maintain or gain numerical advantage in weaponry, men and materials.

No amount of facile argument can conceal the fact that Soviet flexibility to date has been designed to beguile public opinion, not to make progress by genuine negotiation at Geneva.

Some may recoil at the thought of negotiating with men whose theories and actions have been responsible for so much suffering."

"Is there conscience in the Kremlin? do they ever ask themselves what is the purpose of life? What is it all for? Does the way they handled the Korean airliner atrocity suggest that they ever considered such questions?

No. Their creed is barren of conscience, immune to the promptings of good and evil. To them it is the system that counts, and all men must conform.[fo 4]

Nevertheless in Poland they have seen that Communism, even when disguised as military government, cannot suppress the soul of the people. Do they ever wonder, nay even fear, whether the day will not dawn when their own people will give voice to their feelings and frustrations?

Freedom of conscience is a natural right which laws did not give and which law can never take away.

It is the countries of the democratic West which recognise the limits of the power of the state, and which enshrine the conscience of man, in the very structure of their institutions. It is this which is the burden of our responsibility to mankind. Surely this was what Churchill meant when he said in a war-time broadcast to this country: "United we can save and guide the world. Divided the dark ages return".

Those words are as true today as they were in June 1941.

Our ideals and our values are our living strength. Soviet ideology teaches that we in the West are like ripe apples, ready to fall into their laps: that all they have to do is shake the tree. "

"our resolve to defend our way of life, to deter all threats and to ensure in the end that triumph of freedom which America and Britain work for, long for and believe will one day come.

Mr. Chairman, I began with Winston Churchill, and I will end with him. Who better? Churchill wrote; "where we are able to stand together and work together for righteous causes, we shall always be thankful, and the world will always be free.""


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 10:31 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=105503

"But I think we are already seeing quite a lot, but I am not quite sure where you want me to start. We did come into power with the determination to reduce the role of the state. I believe passionately in certain roles for Government, and the rest for the people. And let me perhaps sum up and put it best in this way. I believe you need very strong Government to be strong in those things which only Governments can do. And strong enough after that to leave the rest to the people because that is the essence of a free society. The freedom of the people within a just rule of law and within a democracy. So Government has to be very strong in defence. We have been so. Government has to be very strong in seeing that there are enough forces of law and order. We have increased them substantially. Government has to be very strong in trying to hold the value of your currency stable. The record of this Government and my last one on inflation is excellent and will continue. Government also has to set the framework of law in which your industries and commerce can operate. We[fo 3] have reduced many, many of the regulations which stop them really from carrying out their own function of management and enterprise. Government also has to provide certain basic social services as a safety net, and it is accepted now that we have a National Health Service, and after all you can compare my record on that with anyone else's, and that we provide the overwhelming majority of education. I've set out to see that we do those things. I've also set out to see that we do them in a way that demonstrates maximum efficiency with the money we have, and consideration for the fact that every pound we take out of people's pockets is a pound they have not got to spend on their own families, or on their own businesses. So that is the broad general philosophy and I have, I believe, been the head of a very strong Government, strong in those things, and strong equally to say over to the people for the rest because if the spirit of enterprise, of initiative, of responsibility is not still within our people, and I believe it is, then there would not be hope for the future of Britain, but I believe the character of the people of Britain has not changed."


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 10:50 AM

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=105679

"And when we said we meant to challenge those assumptions, our critics said, "You wouldn't dare." Well, Mr President, we dared.

Instead of incurring more overseas debts, we paid back the monies borrowed by Labour. I wonder if you noticed. You probably didn't, but just last month we paid back another $480 million borrowed by Labour in 1977. They were profligate. We are the prudent party. [applause]. We were bold. We got rid of price control, and inflation has fallen. We began to reform trade union law and to protect the rights of individual members. There is still a lot to do. And we shall do it. We scrapped some taxes and we reduced others. Mr President, if income tax were still what it was under Labour the average taxpayer would be paying £165 more to the taxman this year. "

"Over the past ten years, the United States has succeeded in creating an extra 16 million jobs—more than the whole of Western Europe put together. How have they achieved it?

Well, of course, they've not had Socialism to contend with for a start. And then they have a real "enterprise culture": a culture in which men and women expect to change their jobs, even from manufacturing to services, if that means work. Or to start up on their own.[fo 6]

Some may ask—can't we do it all by state planning? A national plan perhaps?

Almost twenty years ago, I'm told, a Labour Government produced a Plan for Scotland. It described the future for every region of the country. And believe it or not that future was all that you could wish for: more jobs, more homes, more people, and rising living standards. For every region, that is, except just one.

There was one region, it predicted, where the population was going to shrink and jobs would be scarcer.

And what was the Cinderella of the regions? It was Grampian. [laughter].

Since then, in spite of the plan, what has actually happened? In too many of the Scottish regions jobs and population have not grown, they've shrunk. There has indeed been one exception. And that one exception has been—Yes—Grampian. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher
From: mooman
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 10:54 AM

Thanks rarelamb!

Those gave me an excellent bellylaugh!

Peace

moo


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