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BS: Glad Mudcat is here

GUEST,MMario 08 Jul 05 - 09:49 AM
Flash Company 08 Jul 05 - 10:00 AM
freda underhill 08 Jul 05 - 10:04 AM
jacqui.c 08 Jul 05 - 10:05 AM
Peter T. 08 Jul 05 - 10:26 AM
JennyO 08 Jul 05 - 10:27 AM
Mr Red 08 Jul 05 - 10:36 AM
Donuel 08 Jul 05 - 10:40 AM
John Hardly 08 Jul 05 - 10:52 AM
Rapparee 08 Jul 05 - 11:05 AM
GUEST,MMario 08 Jul 05 - 11:35 AM
Peter T. 08 Jul 05 - 11:39 AM
John Hardly 08 Jul 05 - 12:37 PM
jacqui.c 08 Jul 05 - 12:58 PM
Leadfingers 08 Jul 05 - 01:31 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Jul 05 - 01:58 PM
jacqui.c 08 Jul 05 - 02:06 PM
Peter T. 08 Jul 05 - 03:48 PM
GUEST,Canadian 08 Jul 05 - 04:40 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Jul 05 - 04:49 PM
John Hardly 08 Jul 05 - 04:49 PM
John Hardly 08 Jul 05 - 04:50 PM
Liz the Squeak 08 Jul 05 - 05:18 PM
Rapparee 08 Jul 05 - 11:07 PM
Gurney 09 Jul 05 - 04:35 AM
dianavan 09 Jul 05 - 04:51 AM
Amos 09 Jul 05 - 11:28 AM
Ron Davies 09 Jul 05 - 11:53 AM
harpgirl 09 Jul 05 - 12:23 PM
Liz the Squeak 09 Jul 05 - 03:31 PM
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Subject: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:49 AM

I belong to a number of forums, e-lists, etc. A variation of this meessage has been posted to a number of them by coordinators,moderators, etc:

On this day of tragedy we are all facing the thought of attacks in
our own ways. As listmoms of the xxxxxxxx we have made the decision
to once again ask that you refrain from discussing the tragedy on
list. As with 9/11 we want to make the list a safe place away from
the tragedy since it will be affecting so much else of our lives in
the coming days. We know you have many other outlets to discuss this,
so please keep the list on topic


Well, gag me with a maggot!

I'm certainly glad to be at a place where I can find out my friends and acquantainces are SAFE - that THEIR friends and relatives are safe, and where I can express support and concern in the context of community. Or conversely - should I find out some are NOT safe - to be where there is support and concern expressed for those effected - not excluding myself!


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: Flash Company
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:00 AM

Amen to that MMario, what the hell is a forum for if not to discuss the things that concern you.

FC


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: freda underhill
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:04 AM

exactly. this is a great place. well said, MMario!


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:05 AM

This is the only forum I go onto - don't have a need for anything else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:26 AM

Well, one can sympathise with the attempt to find a refuge from the incessant bombardment and replaying of these stories, a lot of which seems to me to be ghoulish obsession -- what is the point of watching endless reruns of the same pictures, and the trickles of opinion and official information? -- but it seems to be (a) a fact of our time that we will be awash in this endless replaying; or maybe it is (b) just human nature to talk all these things out and get them assimilated. In any case, trying to wall these things off is futile, and in the case of music, folk music, and the arts, crazy -- if these are not plugged into the doings of the world, what is?

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: JennyO
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:27 AM

That is a very odd stance for them to take, in my opinion. I would have thought that this is the kind of thing that brings a community together - and Mudcat is very much a community. The fact that it is online and that only some of us have met does not make it any less a community in my opinion.

I think it is the most natural thing in the world for people to have a need and a desire to share their feelings at a time like this, and to connect up and make sure we are all okay. Having just caught up with reading the threads about the bombing only a little while ago, and seeing everyone's concern for each other, and the valuable source of information that it was as well, with a lot of phones apparently not working at the time, just reminds me how lucky we are to have this Mudcat community. It's obviously not just any old chat forum. I think it's unique, and I'm very glad it's here.

Jenny


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:36 AM

well I go on the Mornington Crescent website - I have yet to see the effect there but it must be a dampener. Jokes about bombs would well er bomb.

I belong to the e-ceilidh e-mail forum and Steve is major-domo and martinet to put it mildly - but when you get 30 posts in a night on topic there is good reason to be particular.

Anyway at least the music and other subjects are segregated so we can focus or broaden as we feel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:40 AM

"no one is to stone anyone, and let me make this perfectly clear, until I say so... even if they do say Jehovah"

Life of Brian


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: John Hardly
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:52 AM

I agree and I disagree.

I currently enjoy participation in a music forum that moderates current events/politics out of its discussions. I always used to be in the camp that PeterT so astutely observes, " ...and in the case of music, folk music, and the arts, crazy -- if these are not plugged into the doings of the world, what is?". I thought it would be dull conversation and would be kind of missing what the arts are ultimately about.

On the other hand, though those things (politics/current events) are not directly discussed on that forum, some great respect has developed from the discussion of the common interest that drew us to that forum in the first place. Now, from that forum, I have several friends -- friends with whom I get together (in person), share music, argue politics (in person), laugh and tell bad jokes -- all with mutual respect and great love for each other.

And we know and respect what the other brings to the mix -- we VALUE each other -- and because of that valuing, we discuss everything with a great deal more respect in the way we might frame an opinion.

In a forum that has evolved as this has -- into a political forum, there is little chance for ever striking up friendships with any who don't hold your political POV. That may be comfortable. That also may be a way of making great friendships -- and, infact, if you only want friendships with those that share your world view I guess that's understandable. I used to participate in a community like that too. It was called "church".

It would be an interesting (and quite impossible) exercise to see how differently this forum might evolve if one were not able to come below the line for a year or two. If the first impressions and opinions formed on the forum were formed around the expertise and persona reflected around the mudcat's common goal -- MUSIC -- I wonder with how much more respect that poster might be met when he finally started to post "below the line" -- even if he was in disagreement with the vocal majority here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:05 AM

Callahan's Law:

Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased thus do we refute entropy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:35 AM

In a forum that has evolved as this has -- into a political forum, there is little chance for ever striking up friendships with any who don't hold your political POV

????????? I have no trouble being friends with poeple who don't hold the same views I do. Politically, muscially, religiously. In fact, that would probably describe MOST of my friends. D*mn close to ALL of them.

I even have friends who *shudder* think of televised wrestling as the height of entertainment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:39 AM

I don't personally see how Mudcat has evolved into a political forum, it was always pretty political. But I certainly don't see how you can keep politics out of a music forum -- we would have to ban mention of the blues, Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, Pete Seeger and Woody Guthrie, the Beatles, Billie Holliday, all songs relating to gender, race, inequity, industrial action, capitalism, communism, and so on into the night of nothingness.

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: John Hardly
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 12:37 PM

I don't disagree with Peter T's last post (or his first for that matter). Just that I've observed many a contrary pov come and mostly go, and I wonder if they would have been met with quite the cold shoulder had they been, for instance, a well known musician.

There are no Rick Fieldings left here. I don't mean to imply any association with Rick on my part -- just that, as an observer of his years here, I couldn't help but notice that Rick "befriended" nearly anyone. He, of all people, could have chosen not to be friendly to the hoi palloi, being an "arrived" folk musician in a forum of admirers of the folk musician. But he didn't. He SEEMED (to my memory, anyway) to be respectful to all.

There's an inactive 'catter that I've become friends with, had the chance to sit down and pick with, drink a few beers with. He gave me an interesting insight into Rick's mudcat behavior. He meant this in no way to demean what was exemplary behavior on Rick's part, but commented that Rick probably could ill-afford to alienate those who were likely "customers" of his music ("customers" from an ever-dwindling pool, I might add, as the folk....er....folk are aging).

Whether that had anything to do with Rick's motivation for being kind to all, I couldn't say. But it raises the point -- around music we can share respect. As this has developed as a political forum, we could (share respect), but we don't. If we stood to lose something by our disrepect we might curb it.

We are mostly characterized by a church-like adherence to one (general) point of view, and to the rest we give them the ol' Dan Akroyd, "Jane, you ignorant slut". And as to how that relates to the original question of limiting the topic range on a forum -- we probably regularly dis folks who are musical kin, as well as probably really nice people, because we would rather the comfort of political solidarity. And because of the way this forum is now (political heavy, musical light) we'll continue to shun those kind of folk. Don't get me wrong -- I believe that a "community" such as this develops as it wishes.

My observation, anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 12:58 PM

Like MMario I have friends of all persuasions both here and in the real world.

There may be a small group of people on the forum who behave in the way that John describes and maybe, because they are so vocal, they seem to make up a large proportion of the population. However, if you note the names on a regular basis, the number of contentious posters is relatively small.

From my own point of view I really am not concerned with another person's political, religious or sexual preferences, so long as they don't try and force me to adhere to the same ideas. Mutual respect is what keeps a lot of us coming back to the 'Cat on a regular basis, whether above or below the line.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 01:31 PM

Mudcat is a glorious conglomeration of ( mostly ) Musicians and singers , with just enough audience to let us ego trip happily ! When
we get together , its the MUSIC that we get involved with , NOT each others politics , religion or sexual preferences !! What ever any ones views as expressed 'below the line' , its FOLK that keeps the Mudcat Community just that .


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 01:58 PM

I value the Mudcat most of all when something terrible has happened like happened yesterday (only yesterday! it seems like weeks...) But it can only do that because it is a genuine community, and that is only possible because we've got the music holding us up and holding us together. The music grounds us, so that we can disagree about everything in the universe (including the music) and still remain on speaking terms at worst, and friends at best, and our concern for each other in a crisis means something.

There are sometimes people who come in and spend all their time below the line, and show no apparent interest in the music, and I tend to see them as temporary intruders. If I have a squint at someone's previous posts, and see that they don't include any to music posts, I'm inclined to have less regard to their view on other things. On the other hand if I find someone seems to have interesting stuff to say about music and song, (even if I might not agree with what they say) I feel that makes what they have to say on other thinks more worth paying attention to.

(And I qualify that by saying I do know that there are people who are genuinely into the music but who rarely post anything.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:06 PM

I would confess to posting much more below the line than above, although I do read the music posts. Generally anything that I might contribute above the line has already been said and the discussions get to being way outside my musical knowledge. I just keep quiet there and listen!


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 03:48 PM

Not to make too big a deal of it, but Rick would have laughed out loud if anyone had suggested that he wouldn't alienate his folky audience, er,customers (for someone not proposing to demean, it sounds pretty demeaning to me, however.....).

The truth was that Rick always felt like an outsider, and he had a deep sympathy for outsiders of every persuasion (his favourite person was Quentin Crisp, a screaming gay,   while many's the time we talked interestingly about the far right-wing politics of some of his bluegrass favourites). He was drawn to losers and lonelies of every stripe. This is what gave him great sympathy for anyone who felt they had their noses pressed against the window panes of life.   This is why he went out of his way to include everyone in song circles, gave spontaneous guitar lessons, you name it.

It had nothing to do with politics or audience. It was who he was. It was why so many people miss him.

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: GUEST,Canadian
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 04:40 PM

"This is what gave him great sympathy for anyone who felt they had their noses pressed against the window panes of life."

That is a great metaphor/image.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 04:49 PM

Now is that the inside or the outside of the glass? Or both,perhaps.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: John Hardly
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 04:49 PM

My mistake for bring his name into the conversation. I apologize. I should stick with what I know, which is very little.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: John Hardly
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 04:50 PM

ing


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 05:18 PM

Well at one point yesterday, this forum was the only way some people could 'check in' and confirm that their friends and relatives were still around. The BBC website was buried, there was no mobile service, land lines were busy and the only available information was coming from the TV, live.

I'm very glad it was here yesterday and I'm even gladder that there are no subjects that are taboo. You just had to see the poor people as they came out of stations to realise that sometimes you just HAVE to talk about it, whether the people around you want to listen or not. If I could have done more for folks, I would have but it was beyond my means.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:07 PM

Yes, indeed, Liz. That's why combat veterans -- the REAL ones, not those from the rear with the beer -- talk about it with each other. Share it and it lessens the horror.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: Gurney
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 04:35 AM

I like the Mudcat the way it is.

If a thread doesn't interest me, I don't open it.
If a post concerns me, I react to it.
I'm here because I share an interest with most people here, although not all of them. Most of the people here deserve respect, because they have life experience and good sense, and they are helpful.
I particularly like the international aspect of the members.

My attitude to anyone who wants the Mudcat to be different to suit their tastes: Please close the door quietly on your way out.

And I like the BS section even more than the music section.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 04:51 AM

And thats why buddies get close. Because they share.

I always considered myself a folkie even if I didn't play an instrument. Why? Because I have patronized Folk Festivals and gatherings since the early 60's. I have cooked, volunteered on security, and cleaned up but, mostly, I danced. Are you saying, John, because I an not a musician, you would prefer not to listen to my opinions? Funny, I always thought I was part of the music or does the muse count for nothing.

I came upon Mudcat by accident and I do not belong to any other forum. I share thoughts on Mudcat that I am unable to share elsewhere. Thats why I value Mudcat.

Oh, yes. I have met another mudcatter in real life. He is tall, handsome and intelligent. He's also about 15 years younger than me. Its a good thing he lives in another city far away or he might be in trouble.

I always thought I would be anonymous but now I can say that there is one of you who has actually met me face to face.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 11:28 AM

John:

From what I knew of Rick, his conduct here at not a whiff of concern in it that he might alienate anyone who would be a customer of his music.. He had that issue covered deeply and well; he was one of the greatest anti-alienist around, in some ways, but it was his core personality, not his concern for custom.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 11:53 AM

Amos is dead right--Rick, in addition to being super-talented, was kind, outgoing, humorous, and incredibly generous because------that's the way he was. End of story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: harpgirl
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 12:23 PM

right on mario
Peter you seem to have finally, for me, explained what made Rick, Rick. He had great sympathy and understanding for outsiders.

But John Hardly, even though your political opinions make me crazy and really push my buttons, if you wanted to pick with me, you would be welcome. Sharing music is the great leveler, sort of like all being naked together. Heck, I'll play with anyone foolhardy enough to come to hurricane alley. In person I am quite mild mannered and I wear glasses that slip down my nose and make me look like I am at band camp.
harpy


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Subject: RE: BS: Glad Mudcat is here
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 03:31 PM

All being nekkid together?? Heck I *LOVE* this place!!!!

LTS


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