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leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)

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GUEST,leeneia 12 Apr 05 - 01:44 PM
katlaughing 12 Apr 05 - 02:08 PM
John MacKenzie 12 Apr 05 - 02:28 PM
Leadfingers 12 Apr 05 - 02:34 PM
Liz the Squeak 12 Apr 05 - 02:59 PM
Bill D 12 Apr 05 - 04:56 PM
The Fooles Troupe 12 Apr 05 - 07:30 PM
GUEST,leeneia 13 Apr 05 - 10:54 AM
The Fooles Troupe 13 Apr 05 - 07:52 PM
jimmyt 13 Apr 05 - 08:30 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 14 Apr 05 - 12:01 AM
The Fooles Troupe 14 Apr 05 - 05:05 AM
GUEST,leeneia 14 Apr 05 - 10:36 AM
GUEST,Mr Happy 14 Apr 05 - 10:53 AM
Richard Bridge 14 Apr 05 - 01:21 PM
RobbieWilson 14 Apr 05 - 03:00 PM
The Fooles Troupe 14 Apr 05 - 08:59 PM
GUEST,leeneia 14 Apr 05 - 09:00 PM
jimmyt 14 Apr 05 - 09:11 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 14 Apr 05 - 11:58 PM
Bob Bolton 15 Apr 05 - 01:30 AM
The Fooles Troupe 15 Apr 05 - 08:15 AM
GUEST,leeneia 15 Apr 05 - 11:32 AM
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Subject: leaks fixed - cheap
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 01:44 PM

A few weeks ago, I bought a bass recorder on e-bay. This is a beautiful=looking instrument which had probably never been played. I got it for a fraction of the price of a new one, but it had a problem. None of the low notes would play. A recorder is such a simple instrument that it seemed that there could be only one thing wrong - the keys in the right hand were not closing the holes completely.

I took it to a music store, and the technician replaced the pads on the keys, but the low notes still would not play. Then a friend had a great suggestion. He said to try putting rubber bands over the keys so that they would press the pads into the holes for a long time. Then perhaps the pads would conform to the holes better and stop leaks.

Fortunately, we had two extra-strong rubber bands in the house from a bunch of asparagus. I did as suggested, and it worked! After 12 hours, the sound was better. After 36 hours, it was good enough. I decided to remove the rubber bands so that the pads wouldn't be changed in shape too much. I now have all the right-hand notes. Joy!

You see, it is a good thing to eat fresh vegetables.


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 02:08 PM

Reminds me of an odd remedy, non-musical, but still interesting, from Antiques Roadshow. A woman had an old papoose board, although it was only leather with no board attached. It was mishappen and dry. They told her to encase it in plastic, overnight, with Wonder Bread, which would rehydrate it, then take it out and stuff it with crunched up paper to regain the shape as if an infant was in it. Wonder bread of all things!

I also heard that having a child learn the oboe was an acceptable way to correct an overbite!

kat


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 02:28 PM

Aspirin is good contraceptive too, when clutched tightly between the knees.
G..
Don't you just love these folk remedies ;~)


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 02:34 PM

But the best male cotraceptive pill is an aspirin placed in the shoe !! It makes you limp !!

OK I'll get my coat !


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 02:59 PM

Rolled up Wonderbread (or sliced white plastic) makes a great eraser for when yours had gone down the back of the sofa.

LTS


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 04:56 PM

Well, interesting about the recorder--I have two larger recorders that the rubber band trick might help, but they also 'might' need some new cork...or the old trick of a few windings of thread around the cork.


(All the Wonder bread trick does is to allow moisture to be absorbed by the leather at a moderate rate. I do similar things to retain moisture in wood using just damp paper towels inside plastic bags, and there are special humidifiers for everything from tobacco to guitars. All that is needed is a way to provide water in a controlled release.)


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 07:30 PM

... as all old men think about constantly ...


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 10:54 AM

Bill D, I have a recorder with a cork joint that isn't tight enough. So far a piece of Scotch Magic Tape has fixed the problem.

Have you kept the corks greased?

Now, about the trick of a few windings of thread - how do you keep the thread in place? So it isn't pushed down when you put the sections together?
--------------
Sunday my friends were over, playing early music. Halfway through the evening, I glanced at the back porch next door. Their drunken, troubled uncle was sitting in the dark, listening to us play. He told me later that the music was "soothing." Nice.


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 07:52 PM

Most 'popular music' since WW II was intended to be anything BUT 'soothing'.


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: jimmyt
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 08:30 PM

Having repaired woodwinds for a while in the 70s, the rubber band trick to seat the pads is pretty standard solution although there are little jobbies to do just this. Thread around the tenon joint will keep the joints fitting tightly. If you have a little leak it can be found by corking the end of the instrument, closing all pads and blowing smoke with moderate pressure through the mouthpiece. (in the case of a recorder you need to stip the fipple also) It will readily show you where the small leak is so you can attend it. Haven't thought of these things in 30 years! jimmyt


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 12:01 AM

Ahhh- LittlyLaughKitty (one expects YOU to be a WonderBread sort of personae)

Fortunately, (for the children of the USA) Wonder-Bread changed their formaulae (stabilizing ingrediant from Twinkies added) and they are into bankruptcy (Great story - of - if it works don't fix it - and why downsizing has risks - is in a past issue of WSJ)

For a link to a different story try:
http://www.boingboing.net/2004/09/23/rip_twinkies_wonder_.html

Personally, I have found "SuperGlue" a fabulous sealer for un-seen, but frequently heard, cracks in wooden instruments.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 05:05 AM

Unfortunately, there are correct products to fix musical instruments with - superglue tends to make 'unfixable' repairs.


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 10:36 AM

Two of you have mentioned putting thread on loose tenon joints. What do you use to make it stay there? Thread alone is simply pushed down when the joints are pushed together.

I agree about the SuperGlue. Too hard to undo, if the job's been done wrong.

Instead of smoke, I went into a dark stairwell and slipped a small, round flashlight into the joint to try to locate the leaks. We didn't see any light coming out around the pads, yet the rubber-band method still helped. Must have been extremely narrow gaps that were causing the leakage.

The low A and B are still sounding good. The G is still weak. Any suggestions?


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: GUEST,Mr Happy
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 10:53 AM

Cellotape's great for fixing airleaks- recently cured my melodeon with it.

Don't know if it works on cellos though.


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 01:21 PM

Re mobility of thread on the cork of recorders etc - a neat whipping like one holding the rings on a fishing rod is the answer, then waxed with candlewax.


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 03:00 PM

When I was a kid and we had dodgy recorders in school they were fixed with special wak thread. The wax squashed and held the thread in place


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 08:59 PM

"The G is still weak. Any suggestions?"

Obviously you need a better 'G string'....


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 09:00 PM

Waxed thread. Thanks


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: jimmyt
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 09:11 PM

If the A plays and the G doesn[t you have a leak above the G but it could be in any of the pads above. The leak gets "magnified on the lower notes" CHeck for leaks with the smoke trick, or just rubber band the pads down for a while longer to make sure they are properly seated.


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 11:58 PM

Super Glue - should be diluted with acsetone (nail polish stuff) to make it into a "scluury" that will penetrate the cracks....of-course.....rubber-bands are added afterwards to bind the treatment.



Severel original woods have been revived using the above treatment ( recorders (2) Pan Pipes (1) wooden flute (1).....




Said intrusments were old (ish)and unlike Michael Jackson they were preserved in a hyperbolyic chamber.



Sincerely,

Gargpu;e


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 01:30 AM

G'day Gargs,

One of the problems/advantages with cyano-acrylate glues, like Superglue is that they expand anaerobically ... when not in contact with oxygen. That's why they seal and glue so well in complex, well-fitting fractures. The down-side to that is that the expansion can squeeze an existing crack further apart. Perhaps your dilution to a slurry means there isn't enough cyano-acrylate material left, after the acetone evaporates, to cause damage.

We (electricity supply test lab) had a case where carbon fibre shields (~ "Kevlar") shattered on new high voltage probes - because they were a rush job and had been glued with cyano-acrylates, instead of the usual epoxy. The full-strength cyano-acrylate penetrated all the fine cavities around the carbon fibres, and reduced the shields to a web of fractures!

Wood, may have enough slack, as space in cells, to prevent that problem ... but I would start, on any good flute or recorder, with a thorough swabbing with good woodwind oil (or Almond oil) ... taking care not to oil up the pads - leading to sticky, non-responsive keys. A carefull oiling has usually revived woodwinds displaying all sorts of squeaks and poor tone.

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 08:15 AM

Followed by a careful program of progressive 'blowing in' - a gradually increasing series of playing sessions so that the wood takes up the moisture from the breath slowly and gradually. The expansion form swelling will this be slow and more controlled.


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Subject: RE: leaks fixed - cheap (recorder repair)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 11:32 AM

Thanks Very Much for the tips. I did oil the new recorder when I received it. I'll remember the advice about progressive "blowing in."

jimmyt, you suggest rubbing banding a while to help the low G. I'm leaving town for a week. Would it be advisable to leave it for a week?

On April 24th, some other players are coming over, and the new bass is slated to make its public debut.


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