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Irish versions of Child Ballads

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GUEST,Frances 28 Feb 05 - 09:15 AM
belfast 28 Feb 05 - 10:09 AM
Lighter 28 Feb 05 - 11:13 AM
GUEST,Frances 28 Feb 05 - 11:23 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 28 Feb 05 - 01:05 PM
GUEST,Danny 28 Feb 05 - 01:57 PM
John C. 28 Feb 05 - 02:55 PM
GUEST,Frances 28 Feb 05 - 03:18 PM
John C. 28 Feb 05 - 04:29 PM
belfast 28 Feb 05 - 06:54 PM
Lighter 28 Feb 05 - 10:02 PM
Wolfgang 01 Mar 05 - 07:48 AM
Roberto 01 Mar 05 - 01:18 PM
John C. 01 Mar 05 - 02:59 PM
GUEST,frances 01 Mar 05 - 05:02 PM
Snuffy 01 Mar 05 - 06:59 PM
GUEST,Nerd 01 Mar 05 - 11:23 PM
Sandy Paton 02 Mar 05 - 12:00 AM
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Subject: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: GUEST,Frances
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 09:15 AM

Hello,

Looking for some help from some of the experts here. I'm preparing a concert program which will center around the Child Ballads. I'm looking for some Irish versions of Child ballads that were widely sung in Ireland. (Not gaelic, of course). Preferably not too tragic and depressing, since I have a lot of those already, but any suggestions welcomed. I have a heavy contingent of Scottish, English and American ballads and just want to balance the selection out a little. I seem to be drawing a mental blank at the moment.


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: belfast
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 10:09 AM

"The Lass of Aughrim"
A beautiful ballad and it plays an important part in Joyce's "The Dead".


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 11:13 AM

Planxty recorded a version of "The Maid and the Palmer" collected in Ireland. In general though, the Child ballads seem to not to have been nearly as popular in Ireland as elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: GUEST,Frances
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 11:23 AM

Belfast, thanks for the suggestion. Lighter, that was my impression as well but I wasn't sure about it. It gets confusing with many Irish singers recording Child ballads and everybody assuming they're Irish, but they're not really. Wonder if it would be because the Child ballads are in English and Gaelic was so much more prevalent among ordinary folks in Ireland?


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 01:05 PM

The Elfin Knight, Child #2, in a version sung by Bridget Geary of Waterford, Ireland, 1906, called "The Sea Side."
"The Knight and the Chief's daughter," "learned from an Irish nurse." (#4, Lady Isabel and the Elf Knight).

A number of versions sung in Ireland can be found by thumbing through Bronson, "The Singing Tradition of Child's Popular ballads."
If your key word is "widely sung," however, I dunno.


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: GUEST,Danny
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 01:57 PM

As far I can recollect, here's a few popular recordings of CHILD-collected Ballads by Irish musicians/singers:

The Death of Queen Jane - BOTHY BAND - 1970s

Earl of Moray - DAVID HAMMOND - "Singer's House" - 1970s

The Wraggle Taggle GypsieO - PLANXTY - **Uh** 1970s

Enjoy,

Danny


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: John C.
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 02:55 PM

Oh, come on Catters, we can do better than this! What about the great Elizabeth Cronin of Macroom, Co. Cork who sang 'Lord Randal' and 'Lord Gregory'(the latter an awesome performance that every folkie should hear)? Thomas Moran of of Mohill, Co. Leitrim who sang 'The Elfin Knight', 'Lord Randal', 'The Cruel Mother', 'Lord Bateman', 'Barbara Allen' and 'The Farmer's Curst Wife'. Paddy Doran of Belfast who sang 'The Gypsy Laddie' and Mary Connors of the same city who sang 'Our Goodman'. All of these (and a few more) are on the Topic Lps 'The Folk Songs of Britain' vols 4 & 5 (12T160 & 12T161).
More readily available, these days, are the CDs in the Topic 20 vol set, 'The Voice of the People'. A couple of these are devoted to ballads (vols 3. & 17.) and a number of Irish singers are featured. There are probably more featured in the series - but I'll leave you to go through them.


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: GUEST,Frances
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 03:18 PM

Thanks everybody, and keep the suggestions coming. I'll get on e-music and give some of those CD's a listen. I do think some of the songs mentioned by John C may actually be Scottish or English in origin, but I may be really nit picking. After all, the ballads were picked up by the traveling people and taken all over the British Isles, to Ireland and to America. It doesn't really matter where they originated, I guess.


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: John C.
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 04:29 PM

It is probable that the earliest known versions of many of the ballads in Child's great collection can be traced to Scotland (especially the North East) and England, but who knows where they originated?
One of my reasons for contributing an answer to your question is that I believe that some of these traditional performers are in danger of being forgotten. It seems to me that the Irish singers that I mentioned are wonderful singers and I love the way that they sing these ballads in typical Irish styles and, hence, throw new light on them. Something similar happened in America - on Saturday I finally got my hands on the Rounder CD of the West Virginian singer, Texas Gladden - more Child ballads and another different view.
Before I drift completely off the point, may I also suggest that you examine the repertoires of two more Irish geniuses - Paddy Tunney and Packie Manus Byrne - off the top of my head I couldn't tell you how many Child ballads they had/have but I guarantee a wonderful journey of exploration!


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: belfast
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 06:54 PM

I really have no idea why there are not more Child ballads in the Irish song tradition. David Hammond, mentioned back there for his recording of The Bonny Earl of Moray, once pointed out to me that many of the Scots who came here during the Plantation and later came from around the border area which is the scene of so many of those ballads. Many of the names, he remarked, are still common Trimble, Hume, Hamilton and so on. Is it possible that John Hume is related to "The Laird o' Hume has a-hunting gane "?

Possibly I have heard versions of Child ballads and not recognized them as such. It was some time before it dawned on me that the song, "There was an old woman who lived in the wood, weile, weile, wallia " could be considered a version of Child 20.


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 10:02 PM

David Hammond also recorded a very fine version of "The Wraggle Taggle Gypsies" - possibly under a different title - around 1960 on a Tradition album called "I Am the Wee Falorie Man" - I think.

A wonderful singer, much unappreciated.

It was the leading Irish ballad collector Hugh Shields who observed that Child ballads are rather uncommon in Irish tradition.

"Hughie Graeme" entered the Irish repertoire in the '60s or '70s, it would appear. The usual text and tune seem to have come straight from Ewan MacColl's Scottish version (itself mostly from Greig, IIRC), but the name "Londonderry" in the original chorus is replaced by the phrase "dandle derry."


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 07:48 AM

Frank Harte singing 'Henry, my son' (Lord Randall)

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: Roberto
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 01:18 PM

There is a magnificent cassette, with booklet, Early Ballads in Ireland, 1968-1985, edited by Tom Munnelly and Hugh Shields, European Ethinc Oral Traditions. I fear it is no more available (I have put its content on a cd-r, and if Frances is looking for a specific ballad that is in this collection, I could send him a file. One is a version of James Harris (The Daemon Lover) (#243), titled The Banks of Sweet Viledee, sung by Frank Browne. Cathy Jordan, of the Irish group Dervish, recently recorded this Frank Browne's version). Another great cassette is Singing Men of Ulster, Traditional Songs from Northern Ireland, Green Linnet CSIF 1005. Most songs are not ballads, but it contents The Dark Eyed Gypsies (#200) sung by Cathal O'Boyle. Another version of this ballad is on the above mentioned cassette, Early ballads in Ireland: The Dark-Eyed Gipsy sung by Joe Holmes. Then, of course, there is Elizabeth Cronin, The Songs of Elizabeth Cronin, Daibhi O Croinin Editor, Four Courts Press, 2000, with 2 CDs included. Recordings by sarah Makem, John Reilly, and others, can be heard on Topic. R


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: John C.
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 02:59 PM

I've just remembered that, back in the 60s, the Dubliners had a hit, in the British charts, with 'Seven Nights Drunk' which is, of course, a version of 'Our Goodman' (Child 274). I wonder if anyone else has had a hit with a Child ballad (I bet someone's asked that question before!)?


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: GUEST,frances
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 05:02 PM

All of these suggestions are most welcome. I will do some digging on the net this weekend. I hadn't thought of "Seven Nights Drunk" but of course, it IS a Child ballad!


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: Snuffy
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 06:59 PM

As is "I'm a Rover, Seldom Sober" and "Green and Yeller"


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: GUEST,Nerd
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 11:23 PM

"The Holland Handkerchief" is a version of "The Suffolk Miracle," and it has been collected in Ireland. "Lord Randall" exists in an Irish-language version, which Joe Heaney used to sing.

Rounder has released two CDs of the "Classic Ballads of Britain and Ireland," which contains Irish versions of:

False Knight on the Road
Elfin Knight
Lord Randal
Edward
Cruel Mother
Captain Wedderburn's Courtship
Lord Bateman
Lord Gregory
Barbara Allen
Little Sir Hugh (If Cecilia Costello, who was born in England to Irish parents, counts as Irish)
The Gypsy Laddie
Katharine Jaffray
The Grey Ghost (Child 248) [Again, Cecilia Costello)
Our Goodman aka seven drunken nights--In Irish Gaelic and Anglo-Irish versions
The Farmer's Curst Wife
The Gaberlunzie Man (Child 279 in the appendix)
The Keach in the Creel.


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Subject: RE: Irish versions of Child Ballads
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 12:00 AM

Paddy Tunney's version of the Edward ballad (Child #13) is on his Folk-Legacy CD "The Man of Songs" - CD-7. Paddy called it "What put the Blood on Your Right Shoulder, Son?"
    Sandy


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