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BS: Canada - the teflon country

Little Hawk 15 Feb 05 - 01:16 PM
DougR 15 Feb 05 - 01:19 PM
John MacKenzie 15 Feb 05 - 01:26 PM
Megan L 15 Feb 05 - 01:26 PM
Clinton Hammond 15 Feb 05 - 01:42 PM
gnu 15 Feb 05 - 01:47 PM
TheBigPinkLad 15 Feb 05 - 01:47 PM
jimmyt 15 Feb 05 - 01:47 PM
DougR 15 Feb 05 - 01:48 PM
ToulouseCruise 15 Feb 05 - 01:52 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Feb 05 - 02:00 PM
gnu 15 Feb 05 - 02:03 PM
ToulouseCruise 15 Feb 05 - 02:16 PM
gnu 15 Feb 05 - 02:27 PM
Ebbie 15 Feb 05 - 02:28 PM
Azizi 15 Feb 05 - 02:52 PM
Peace 15 Feb 05 - 02:57 PM
ToulouseCruise 15 Feb 05 - 02:58 PM
Peace 15 Feb 05 - 02:59 PM
GUEST,Ooh-Aah2 15 Feb 05 - 03:10 PM
Peace 15 Feb 05 - 03:37 PM
dianavan 15 Feb 05 - 03:47 PM
artbrooks 15 Feb 05 - 04:23 PM
Bardford 15 Feb 05 - 04:29 PM
ToulouseCruise 15 Feb 05 - 04:43 PM
Peace 15 Feb 05 - 04:49 PM
gnu 15 Feb 05 - 05:01 PM
gnu 15 Feb 05 - 05:10 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Feb 05 - 05:21 PM
Peace 15 Feb 05 - 05:33 PM
Little Hawk 15 Feb 05 - 05:37 PM
gnu 15 Feb 05 - 05:45 PM
gnu 15 Feb 05 - 05:48 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Feb 05 - 05:52 PM
Peace 15 Feb 05 - 05:53 PM
gnu 15 Feb 05 - 06:00 PM
Little Hawk 15 Feb 05 - 06:23 PM
Peace 15 Feb 05 - 06:24 PM
Peace 15 Feb 05 - 06:25 PM
Little Hawk 15 Feb 05 - 06:26 PM
Peace 15 Feb 05 - 06:28 PM
gnu 15 Feb 05 - 06:29 PM
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gnu 15 Feb 05 - 06:31 PM
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gnu 15 Feb 05 - 06:34 PM
DougR 15 Feb 05 - 06:35 PM
gnu 15 Feb 05 - 06:42 PM
Peace 15 Feb 05 - 06:44 PM
beardedbruce 15 Feb 05 - 06:44 PM
gnu 15 Feb 05 - 06:44 PM
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Peace 15 Feb 05 - 06:47 PM
Peace 15 Feb 05 - 06:49 PM
gnu 15 Feb 05 - 06:49 PM
Peace 15 Feb 05 - 06:56 PM
Ebbie 15 Feb 05 - 06:56 PM
gnu 15 Feb 05 - 06:58 PM
Little Hawk 15 Feb 05 - 07:00 PM
Peace 15 Feb 05 - 07:02 PM
beardedbruce 15 Feb 05 - 07:16 PM
Little Hawk 15 Feb 05 - 07:19 PM
Peace 15 Feb 05 - 07:21 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Feb 05 - 07:29 PM
beardedbruce 15 Feb 05 - 07:29 PM
artbrooks 15 Feb 05 - 07:34 PM
GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River 15 Feb 05 - 07:37 PM
Peace 15 Feb 05 - 07:45 PM
dianavan 15 Feb 05 - 09:33 PM
Cluin 15 Feb 05 - 09:44 PM
Mooh 16 Feb 05 - 12:13 AM
ToulouseCruise 16 Feb 05 - 10:44 AM
Mooh 16 Feb 05 - 11:36 AM
Peace 16 Feb 05 - 11:54 AM
GUEST 16 Feb 05 - 12:29 PM
gnu 16 Feb 05 - 01:59 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Feb 05 - 02:10 PM
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artbrooks 16 Feb 05 - 02:26 PM
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ToulouseCruise 16 Feb 05 - 02:40 PM
gnu 16 Feb 05 - 02:46 PM
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gnu 16 Feb 05 - 05:12 PM
Cluin 16 Feb 05 - 05:14 PM
Peace 16 Feb 05 - 06:11 PM
GUEST,Willie-O 16 Feb 05 - 06:57 PM
Peace 16 Feb 05 - 07:05 PM
GUEST,Willie-O just getting going... 16 Feb 05 - 07:05 PM
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Azizi 17 Feb 05 - 06:17 PM
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Little Hawk 18 Feb 05 - 10:41 PM
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number 6 19 Feb 05 - 12:23 PM
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Subject: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:16 PM

Yes, Canada. Glorious Canada. The country that I am proud to call my own. O Canada!

The great thing about Canada is that it's virtually immune to serious criticism. This is because it's such a nice place. Canada has no enemies. We did have an enemy once, when the USA tried to invade in 1812-14, but we got together our squads of attack beavers, moose commandos, and unemployed hosers, and we stopped 'em dead in their tracks, eh?

Canada has seamlessly combined capitalism and socialism in a savoury mix that delights the pallet and pays for the medical bills. Canada is shamelessly liberal, and proud of it!

Canada has 4 (count 'em!), 4 silly political parties that are all secretly run by the rich people, but it's okay because you can count on them all not to do anything too drastic. Canada will never launch a pre-emptive attack on Iran or Syria.

Canada is the home of hockey, maple syrup, snowshoes, and Don Cherry.

Canada rules, eh? We are the teflon country. You can make fun of us, but you can't come up with anything that really sticks, cos we are Canadian, eh? Totally decent!


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: DougR
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:19 PM

Congratulations, L.H., for living in a sin-free country.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:26 PM

Poutine


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Megan L
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:26 PM

Ah Little Hawk m'dear sure there are that many Orcadians ower there its no wonder it is almost paradise :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:42 PM

"Poutine"

Is that supposed to be a positive or a negative?

:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:47 PM

Appropriate thread for the 40th anniversary of our glorious Maple Leaf. Yep, it was fourty years ago today that we raised the new Canadian flag and let the Union Jack off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:47 PM

Jean Poutine was the last Prime Minister.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: jimmyt
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:47 PM

Besides, all the waitresses on Interstate 75 that runs from Michigan to Florida, are always fighting to get to serve the Canadian snowbirds on thier way south so they can earn thoes 25 cent tips for good service. Good deal eh? grin


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: DougR
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:48 PM

L.H.: I do have some hope for Canada though. I'm not sure if all parts of Canada are able to do so, but I believe that your government finally overcame it's timidity about allowing Fox News Network to be viewed in Canada. Now that a fair and balanced report of the news will be available to Canadians, I will expect to see many more fair and balanced political posts made by Mudcatters residing there.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:52 PM

Mmmm... ever have poutine with fried onions and ground beef mixed in? yeah, baybee!


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 02:00 PM

Here's another splendid Canadian innovation - BS: Flickr - this is fun...

I sometimes wonder if, looking at Canada, some of its southern neighbours think maybe they'd have done better, back in the 18th century, to have sorted out that little squabble with England in some another way?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 02:03 PM

And you call yourself a Cormier ? From The Island ? Eating that Uppity Canada crap ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 02:16 PM

Yep, I do. Yep, I am. and Yep, I does... but those Quebecois only do it 'alf way, dere... Fries with the Works is the PEI version of it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 02:27 PM

Round here, in the heart of Acadie, poutine means poutines râpées, and "the works" is brown sugar. Come to think of it, pork fat, potatoes and brown sugar ain't that good for ya either, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 02:28 PM

When I was traveling through I was impressed by the quality of the newspapers in Canada. Good articles, treating topics with respect and in depth. On the other hand, many, many of the smaller towns don't seem to have a newspaper at all, and it's difficult to find a newspaper from the big cities. Why is that?

By the way, someone is missing a good bet in our public terminals, whether train, plane, bus or ferry. A room or an area set up for internet service would do a brisk business. Twice I found stand-alone internet computers in a train station- both times, they had not been serviced or monitored. Two dollars a pop to find this out is offputting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 02:52 PM

The first and only time that I visited Canada [does Toronto count or is it too close to the USA?], I was impressed with how CLEAN the streets were.

And then the paper dollars were in different colors!! It reminded me of monopoly money and I wondered "Is this money for real??".
But I figure it's an expression of creativity for a nation to use more than green to color its money.

But than again, for all I know, EVERY nation but the USA might have different colored paper money.

Maybe only using green paper is another indication of the USA's lack of appreciation for creativity.

Canadian clean streets and Canadian colored money-ah yes!

Ms. Azizi


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 02:57 PM

Doug: We don't discuss politics in Canada. Kinda like saying to the duchess that something is hanging fom her nose at the dinner table. Just isn't done old man.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 02:58 PM

.. and you can use the colored money to buy Poutine!

sorry... didn't have lunch.

Brian


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 02:59 PM

One just ignores it and lets it hang. Good manners, wot? And certainly Canadians feel like that about FOX news. We're just to polite to mention that it's crap.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 03:10 PM

The only thing I don't like about Canada is that they don't play cricket. Surely the joy of this king among games is worth the insignificant labour of removing twenty tons of snow or so off the pitch before a game? If you played cricket, Australia could beat you at it, like they beat you at everything else. This would make Australians feel really good about themselves, as winning at sport is the raison d'etre of the nation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 03:37 PM

You Ozites would NOT have a chance against us in the snowshoe race. Not a chance. Crickets? We got them. Little blighters chirp at night and keep one awake. That's why we can't shovel the snow. Just tooooooooo tired.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: dianavan
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 03:47 PM

Canada is a wonderful country with a very pretty flag and a national anthem that you can actually sing.

You're right about not discussing Canadian politics. We discuss American politics but never discuss Canadian politics in polite company. We read, read, read and then quietly cast our ballot.

You're right about fair and balanced new coverage but alas we still get way too much sensational stuff in the newpapers. CBC radio is an important part of breakfast in many Canadian homes.

You may have heard about the Canadian that helped save Jacque Chirac from an assination by wrestling the rifle away from the attacker. He has become a local politician. Although he is originally from Syria, he will probably do very well in the election. Thats Canada for you! I love it. Real people with an honest desire to serve their community. Doesn't matter where you're from cuz everyone is from somewhere. We're all in the same boat.

I never considered myself a nationalist, but after living here for 30 years, I am definitely a proud Canadian.

I love the healthcare and don't let anyone tell you that it is somehow inadequate. Thats just propaganda so that people in the States don't start pushing for it. All the nasty stories just fuel the move toward privatization.

Same goes for education. Its the best.

I'll stop now but I hope Canada does serves as a beacon for the world. We are not perfect, but I don't know of a better place to live. At least in this country there is hope and compassion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 04:23 PM

It is, of course, an irrefutable historical fact that the United States did not invade the nation of Canada in 1813 and 1814...since Canada did not exist until 1867. The US did invade the British colony of Upper Canada in 1813, after a British force based in Canada moved south and took the American city of Detroit. In 1814, British forces, or Canadian if you prefer, invaded New York but were forced to withdraw after their fleet was defeated (again) on the Great Lakes. The force that burned Washington City in August 1814 originated in Halifax.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Bardford
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 04:29 PM

No cricket in Canada? Pity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 04:43 PM

Not only should Canada serve as a beacon for the world, it also does a mighty fine job of serving bacon to the world... Mmmm.. Canadian back bacon....


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 04:49 PM

Here's cricket in Canada--they look the same.

Here!


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 05:01 PM

Dominion of Canada. Nation of Canada. Upper Canada. Lower Canada. Whatever. We still have that exqusite set of dishes from your Capitol Building. It's not in Halifax, Lower Canada. It's in a museum vault in Ottawa, Canada, and we are keeping it for tea and company. Beth thanks ever so much.

So much for snooty. It does not become a Canuck. We'll forgive and forget if you will. Friends ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 05:10 PM

Anyway, LH said you can't stick anything on Canada. Now, apart from Celine Dion, is he right ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 05:21 PM

Teflon sounds a sneaky sort of label, though - it's the one they always stick on dodgy politicians who get away unscathed when they didn't oughta. "Teflon Tony" for example.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 05:33 PM

Celine Dion has a divine right. Her left's not bad, either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 05:37 PM

Yes, teflon may not have been the best word to use. Can someone suggest a better one? What's that ski wax called?

Canadians welcome Fox News Network to Canada! Not only are we very much in favour of viewing any and all foreign comedy shows, we also believe it's good to keep track of the activities of potentially dangerous political forces in the World, so as to be able to predict what they might do next and be prepared for it. First thing you know, they might try to privatize our health system or...worse than that...buy out Tim Horton's Donuts!!! We won't let 'em do that, eh? No flippin' way!

We have fought back against foreign aggression and subversion in the past by exporting devastating cultural weapons to the USA, such as Lorne Greene, Leslie Nielsen, Paul Anka, Celine Dion and...(drum roll).........William Shatner!!!

Don't flippin' underestimate our retaliatory abilities, Doug. We got more where they came from.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 05:45 PM

Canada... the castor country. Like water off a beaver.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 05:48 PM

Gives new meaning to "The true north, STRONG and free." don't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 05:52 PM

And just in case they became depressed, you sent them Leonard Cohenm to cheer them up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 05:53 PM

"Canada... the castor country. Like water off a beaver."

Be still my beating heart!


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:00 PM

Do beavers eat trout, Dad? Some do. Most just kinda flap their tail at them. True story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:23 PM

Canada, the Castor Country. We not only rock...we ROLL! And we get along fine with Cuba because "Castro" and "Castor" are practically the same word.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:24 PM

True, LH. But ya gotta admit, there's beaver and there's beaver.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:25 PM

Then there's "Leave it to Beaver", eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:26 PM

And beaver hats.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:28 PM

LOL, and beaver ear muffs. HAHAHA


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:29 PM

We got lots of both. From hats to coats. From Mary Pickford to Pamala Anderson.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:31 PM

Once you've had beaver...


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:31 PM

Pamala ? Pamela ? Spelling? You know who I mean. Use to run on the beach on TV with those big waves bouncing and undulating on the shore.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:33 PM

The show with the twins, right? David Hatsareoff? Yeah. I remember them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:34 PM

Oops. A lot of cross-pissing going on here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: DougR
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:35 PM

Right, brucie, wouldn't want to be exposed to the other side of the story would we?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:42 PM

..."beaver ear muffs..." Good C****T boy. I just had enough time to turn away from the computer before I lost my beer in the wind. Been a while since I had me old muff muffs on. Then again, they say it's riding a beaver.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:44 PM

Just ain't interested, Doug.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:44 PM

LH,

So who else is still mining, and sending asbestos to the Third World, causing untold misery and death?

Or isn't that a part of Canada you want to talk about?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:44 PM

Then again, they say it's LIKE riding a beaver. (Beer 4, gnu 0).


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:45 PM

Doug, I feel I should warn you that there is a heavily armed beaver creeping up on you at this very moment...


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:46 PM

bruce Buddy... where and when ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:47 PM

Mostly, Doug, I don't give a rat's ass about American Conservative views. Tryly. Not on FOX, CNN, in the NYT or Aunt Matilda's weekly newsletter. Don't let this bother you at all, Doug, but the USA is just another country to me, like Sri Lanka or Mali or France.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:49 PM

BB, in the event LH doesn't get back to you in ten, we mine asbestos and ship it all over the place. Free market--capitalism. Make hundreds of billions at it too. Not as lucrative as armed invasions, but we're learning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:49 PM

Shite, I missed that one. What happened. Doug... what's got your shorts in a twist?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:56 PM

Re asbestos: Canada, former Soviet Union, South Africa and Brazil all export. Just want BB to receive an answer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:56 PM

"BB, in the event LH doesn't get back to you in ten, we mine asbestos and ship it all over the place. Free market--capitalism. Make hundreds of billions at it too. Not as lucrative as armed invasions, but we're learning." brucie

Kind of like the US heavily promoting tobacco products in developing countries, eh? Altruism and Self Interest are not comfortable bed partners.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:58 PM

Wish I could stay and defend the honour but I got something real important to do... watch the pretty puppies on the Westminster Dog Show on TSN for the next three hours. As for asbestos, I have it covering my house in the form of asbestos cement shingles - only shingles made that will last forever... fuck vinyl, it's not good for the environment. And Doug, whatever your beef is, I'm sure we can work it out over beer and BBQ. I have some mad cow that's real tasty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 07:00 PM

Yeah, BB. That's the trouble with capitalism. Self-interested, greedy bastards who want more and more tend to take over at the top. Just like happened in Russia and China under the Communists. :-)

Makes you wonder what they were fighting over in the Cold War?

Oh. Market share.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 07:02 PM

Not as lucrative as this:

I happen to agree with BB that Canada is disgusting for exporting asbestos. No doubt. And I wish we'd stop. Get into the money flow by doing the above. Hey, it works for you, it ought to work for us, right?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 07:16 PM

So, since others are doing it, it is OK for Canada to continue? Seems a little hypocritical to me...


"The great thing about Canada is that it's virtually immune to serious criticism"


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 07:19 PM

BB, if you insist on turning this thread into a serious discussion, then we are going to have to get serious with you! Don't make me send the attack beavers, man...


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 07:21 PM

It is NOT OK for Canada to do it. Is it your opinion that the US arms exports should contiue, BB?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 07:29 PM

Here's Mining Warch Canada - a site with a piece about Canadian asbestos. Pretty clearly some unfinished business that needs to be taken care of, and it indicates some of the ways many Canadians are trying to do that.

Truth is, there are bent politicians and irresponsible business executives in every country. The important thing is to cut them down to size and get and keep them out of power.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 07:29 PM

No, we should be keeping it all ourselves, so we can use it where needed to make the world safe for democracy.

( THIS IS A SARCASTIC MESSAGE )

I just object to Canada being put up as a "Perfect" country. ALL countrie do what the government feels is in their OWN self-interest- But only the US gets raked over the coals for it...

Feel free to criticise the US, but don't give me any "holier than thou" shit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 07:34 PM

Of course, Canadian military exports aren't exactly paltry, and about 2/3 of them go to the US. Now, can we get back to discussing beaver?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 07:37 PM

Man, I seen this trhead and I am, like, proud, eh? Canada is my flippin' home and native land and I would be prepaaired to, like, fight anyone who thinks it ain't the best flippin' place there is! Flip-faced George F-in Bushwah thinks he is gonna take out Blind River because of the loomin' beer shortage, eh? Well he is ROYALLY FLIPPED!!! We will kick his flippin' Texas ass from here to Shawinigan, eh?

I am still in jail. The food keeps gettin' better. We got pork chops tonight. Officer Dana was real pleased to get the valentine I give her yesterday. She turned all red and tried to, like, act tough about it, but I know she was happy. Officer Dana is a real woman and a half...but I mean, with a good figure, eh? Like a figure skater. I wanta marry her when I get out, but I know that I am gonna have ta clean up my act some. I figure that maybe I should start washin' my socks once in a while and stuff like that.

She don't like heavy metal music. She said so. I can't figger that, but maybe she will like it later if I get a chance to, like, explain the lyrics to her. You gotta, like, unnderstand what Ozzie is talkin' about before you, like, judge him, eh? The man is DEEP.

That guy Snake in the next cell has got me and Don (my brother) worried. He has a weird flippin' attitude. I don't think he likes us none, and the feeling is muchewall, eh? He is a flippin' mental bolthole with a hostillity problem. No wonder the flippin' loser is in jail! He's a menace to society. I woulda put him in jail first thing if I was a cop...or else just shot him.

This bein' Canada, I figger the wheels of justice will soon have me and Don outa here, and then we can do our public dooty and warn society of the comin' beer shortage! And I can marry Officer Dana. The future depends on me and Don. Man, that is a heavy thought! I never reelized my life would be this sidnificant. Majorly cool. I am gonna suck my gut in and face the challenges. My, like, hour has come to walk the plank of destiny.

- BDiBR


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 07:45 PM

"I just object to Canada being put up as a "Perfect" country."

Me too, BB. Me too. However, I don't recall ever doing that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: dianavan
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 09:33 PM

BB - Who ever said it was perfect? Not me, "We are not perfect, but I don't know of a better place to live."

You sound a bit defensive or jealous or somethin'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Cluin
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 09:44 PM

You think nothing sticks because of teflon?

Wrong! It's `cause it's too damn cold.

Unless you put your lips or tongue on it. Then it gets real sticky.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Mooh
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 12:13 AM

Oh Canada, our homes on native land...

While we're on the subject of beaver...June to Ward just as they were about to fall asleep, "Don't you think you were a little hard on the Beaver?".

I like it here, but it's all I've known. A visit to Armstrong Ontario or Cape Breton might seem like another planet, but the folks are still my kin cause they're Canadian (I know, trying to rhyme kin with Cdn is pretty thin).

I like my trout stuffed with corn and covered in maple syrop, served hot with cheddar sauce and PEI fries. Washed down with Creemore too except I don't drink anymore so apple juice will do. The pan can be teflon.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 10:44 AM

Woohoo! PEI french fries! yep, I am originally a SpudMuffin, grew up (and out) on those....

Canada may not be perfect, but we're nice. And we can even put up with our crazy Uncle that lives next door...


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Mooh
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 11:36 AM

What do we need teflon for? We got ice! Had a case of toboggan bum this morning...

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 11:54 AM

Does it cure the itch? I gotta know, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 12:29 PM

Just wait until the water wars come. Oh boy. You think Iraq is bad. You guys are so much closer for conducting those surgical strikes, logistically we ought to be able to save a few defense dollars. And we will have had lots of practice by then, thanks to Bush, at occupying countries to get the stuff we want. You have so much fresh water up there, it's downright selfish to hoard it all for yourselves. All those rich retirees living in the Arizona desert need shimmering pools of clear blue water to sip their margaritas by.

We'll have to come up with an excuse to invade pretty soon, though. Maybe our CIA can claim to have intelligence reports and satellite photos showing that William Shatner has toupees of mass destruction. Can you help us out by doing something we can spin into a threat to our national security? The retirees in Arizona would appreciate it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 01:59 PM

You mean like my uncle Jim ? In his retirement, he lives in Arizona during the cold Canuck winters. He was in the Canadian Diplomatic Corps. Last post was head of security in Moscow. Hmmm, maybe he's not retired. Maybe he's "scouting hair pieces" for Bill, if ya know what I mean. Know thine enemy and all that, eh.

As for the water, we all know that's the only reason for the PQ. Whoever can separate La Belle Province will be rich beyond their wildest dreams, selling water to the Tri-State area and beyond. They're going after another referendum if the provincial government passes a vote of confidence tha's coming shortly. You Yanks had better pray they don't separate and get a grip on the water. Canadians might be nice and polite but the PQ are a bunch of fuckin pricks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 02:10 PM

You have "French Fries" in Canada? Rather than "Chips", like they do back here, and out in Australia? Your language has been infiltrated by your neighbours I think!


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 02:16 PM

nah, they call them "Freedom Fries" down there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 02:26 PM

We do?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Mooh
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 02:26 PM

brucie...No cure, but the snow down the pants numbs a bit. Mooh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 02:40 PM

Sorry Art... that was just a hold over from a couple yrs ago when some US businesses/restaurants changed the names of some foods in protest of France, Canada, etc, not supporting the conflict in Iraq. But I hear that the greasy little tators are back to the normal names now... not like those silly chips... chips are from Frito-Lay, and no, they are not crisps...

Shatner for Prime Minister!... OR at least, Defense Minister! OR maybe Minister for Sex with Green Skinned Aliens!


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 02:46 PM

Depends on the usage. NObody says fish n' fries. It's fish n' chips. And we don't say fries with a meal, we say French fries or home fries (home fries = pan fries). And if we want small pan fries without any peelings left on, it's hash brownies... er, hash browns. Hash brownies come before the meal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:32 PM

Hash, brownies--good combo.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 05:12 PM

It would be the only way I could stomach fries covered with cheese. Can you say heart attack?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Cluin
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 05:14 PM

We used to say "chips" for fries when I was a kid. Things changed by the time I was in my teens, about the time we got a McDonalds locally. It's not so much national influence as it is corporate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 06:11 PM

I still call 'em chips.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: GUEST,Willie-O
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 06:57 PM

It's still a chip truck, eh.

Doug, you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that we lack a rightwing perspective or something. We have our own homegrown rightwingers who suck up to Dubya, miss the old Thatcher days and are throwing rhetorical tantrums about how same-sex marriage (the debate in Parliament started today) will destroy Confederation...and they are ably represented by massive multi-media conglomerates CanWest Global and CTV/Bell GlobeMedia...

but I hadn't heard about the Fox "News" Network coming here...wasn't aware it wasn't already, the border is awfully porous for blowhard commentary. I googled it and found a great Canadian website on "cross-media ownership,
convergence and concentration", http://www.yourmedia.ca/, so thanks for that.

W-O


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 07:05 PM

. . . and much of what passes as debate in the House of Commons I call buffalo chips.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: GUEST,Willie-O just getting going...
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 07:05 PM

and in New Brunswick they are represented--well, owned--by the Irvings. http://www.yourmedia.ca/modules/irving/041118_cbc_mp_irving.html

Can you believe it? A Conservative MP complaining about concentration of media ownership...I wanna go vote for this guy now!

Please help me...someone...

Course, the Irvings have had a long and happy relationship with the Liberals...for the benefit of any non-Canadians who have gotten this far, let me offer a couple of Canadianisms:

"small-l liberals"--people with liberal politics, not in the Liberal Party.

About which it was said a couple of decades back "you could take all the small-l liberalism in the Liberal party, fit it in a gnat's navel and still leave room for Trudeau's Mercedes."   

"small-c conservatives"--most large-L Liberals.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 08:49 PM

A Conservative MP complaining about concentration of media ownership - you mean a Conservative politician who is actually a genuine conservative? By which I mean, resistant to any change that cannot be demonstrated to be necessary and desirable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Grab
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 04:08 PM

Azizi, everywhere else in the world uses coloured money. FWIW, the general opinion is that US dollars look like cheap toy money. Well, they practically are since the dollar went down the crapper, but let's not get into that now. Using different colours (and changing the designs regularly) makes them harder to fake.

There's also a practical issue - most other countries have notes that are different sizes for different denominations. Not only does this help against fakes, it also allows the blind to use cash. It's an interesting little factoid that blind people in the US can't tell bills apart, because they're all the same size.

Graham.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 05:22 PM

Yes, multi-colored money is a worldwide phenomenon. The poor USA is stuck with drab old green money, all looking the same. Bor-ing!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 06:17 PM

Thanks Grab for the info aboout the use of colors for paper money.

Since I haven't been to any 'foreign' country but Canada, and knowing little about other nations, the fact that Canadian dollar bills [if that phrase is appropriate] came in other colors besides green was remarkable to me.

I wonder, do the colors change with each years' fashion 'it' color?


And Little Hawk, I gotta say that there are alot of descriptors for the USA that I would use, but "boring" isn't one of them.



Azizi


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 06:42 PM

You're right, Ms Azizi, the USA is not a boring country in the least. :-)

The main reason most countries print different denominations of money in different colours is:

1. It makes it easier to immediately see what denomination the bills are. In Canada, for instance, Ones used to be green, Twos were sort of tan/brown, Fives were and still are bright blue, tens are subdued blue-violet, twentys are pale green and gold, fifties are red, hundreds are sort of gold-coloured, and so on.

2. Harder to counterfeit.

(The Ones and Twos have been recently changed from paper bills to coins. It's cheaper to mint, because the coins last a lot longer in circulation.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 06:47 PM

Not mine. I blow them at the corner store on the lottery. Hmmm. We got loonies when the 6/49 made it big. Then, we got toonies when the Super 7 made it big. Jaysus!!! Lotto Canada is running the mint!


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Cluin
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 01:48 AM

Lotto Canada is running EVERYTHING right now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: JennyO
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 10:20 PM

In Oz, our ones and twos are coins, fives are pink, tens are blue, twenties are orange, fifties are yellow and hundreds are green. They are quite colourful and attractive, and vary in size - Aussie money

The only thing I don't like about them is that they are made of a sort of plastic, instead of paper like the older ones, which makes them very hard to fold. They keep springing back to the way they were last folded. I gather the bank tellers don't like them for the same reason.

Come to think of it, and to sorta bring this thread back to the title, they feel rather smooth and greasy, as if they were coated with teflon - maybe they are - just like our PM, sometimes known as Teflon Johnnie, because mud doesn't stick to him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 10:37 PM

A little hyperbole in this particular article, methinks. On the other hand, the basic facts are there. I think it proves fairly well that Canadians, per se, are not appreciably better or smarter or more compassionate than anyone else.

Japanese Internment Camps in Canada during WWII

Excerpts

"There were ten internment Camps in total; they consisted of: three road camps, two prisoner of war camps(POW), and five self supporting camps scattered throughout Canada during the second World War. Prior to World War II, 22,096 Japanese Canadians lived in British Columbia; three quarters of them were naturalized or native born Canadians.

Many historians believe internments camps came about because of racist attitudes Canadians held towards Japanese Canadian's-many of whom lived in BC. Once the bombing on Pearl Harbour happened racism came to a head. British Columbians started to blame all their troubles and problems on the Japanese. Japanese people were blamed for everything from a bad crop to a flat tire. The scared people of BC cried out, wanting the BC Government to deal with the problem as they saw it-Japanese Canadians. The people of British Columbia wanted to feel safe in their homes again and they wanted Prime Minister Mackenzie King to rid Canada of people of Japanese orign. They were causing a threat to Canada (or so it was believed by the public.) Mackenzie King wanted the votes from B.C. so he was more than happy to do what they asked. Mackenzie's first order of business was to incarcerate all Japanese males between the ages 14 and 45. They were ordered to move more than 160 km inland. This was to "safe guard" the pacific coast from Japanese spies. The Canadian government took away all of the Japanese fishing fleets, in order to protect Canada.

"Over a nine month period 22,000 people were taken from their homes and scattered throughout BC. By October 1942, the Canadian government had set up 8 internment camps in interior BC. They were in Kaslo, New Denver, Tashme, Roseberry, Slocan City, Lemon Creek, Sandon, and Greenwood. Tashme was named after the 3 leading BC's security commisioners; TAlor, SHirras, and MEad.

"The war caused a large labour shortage for farmers, especially sugar beet farmers. The Security Commission Council organized sugar beet projects to combat the labour shortage. This gave the Japanese males a choice. The choice was to work in road camps as slaves or go to the beet camps and be with their families. Working in the beet camps was the choice taken by the majority of Japanese married men.

"Living in interment camps was a hard life to live. Many families were forced to live in cramped quarters with ten other families sharing one stove. Some camps such as Slocan city didn't have the resourses to house the huge amounts of people coming into the camps. Many Japanese were placed in tents until there were houses available. One would think that moving from a tent to a house would be a step up, but this was not true. Most houses consisted of panal board with no insulation, rickety walls and maybe a stove. During the harsh cold winters many Japanese put lanterns under their beds to try and keep warm."

One first person account (1978):
"I was in that camp for four years. When it got cold the temperature went down to as much as 60 below. The buildings stood on flat land beside a lake. We lived in huts with no insulation. Even if we had the stove burning the inside of the windows would all be frosted up and white, really white. I had to lie in bed with everything on that I had... at one time there were 720 people there, all men, and a lot of them were old men."


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 10:41 PM

Yup. Typical. If the Toronto Sun had existed in '41-45, they would probably have been pressing none too subtly for a "final solution" for the Japanese-Canadians.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 06:55 AM

Ebbie... just a couple of years ago, every Japanese Canadian affected, decendants included, received a sizable sum of cash and a written and public apology, a full page in every Canadian newspaper. As for interring all Japanese males between the ages 14 and 45 during the war, we'll never know if it made any difference regarding possible subversive acts, but it sure as hell was different than some of the things Canadians were subjected to at the hands of the Japanese when taken prisoner in China. I don't recall any stories of Japanese Canadians being tied to stakes and subjected to biological weapons delivered by artillary; suffering for days before dying while being examined by researchers to determine the effectiveness of their weapons dispersal.

Now, I am not going to get into a pissing contest here, but I think you should broaden your historical research a wee bit before you try to piss on Canadians again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 12:17 PM

Ah, gnu, you sound like an Amurrican.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: number 6
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 12:23 PM

Good point gnu .... my daughter-in-law's grandfather was a Hong Kong vet. There is a lot of 'horrific scars' that he carried from the age of 19 (when he was interned).


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 03:35 PM

The Japanese were vicious to everyone...including their own soldiers. Military training in Japan was full of relentless and savage brutality on the part of officers (many of them) toward the enlisted men. This had no small effect in causing those troops to be brutal to prisoners and populations in occupied areas.

It was a shameful misuse of power, encouraged from the top down. I have read several books by Japanese Navy and Air Force veterans. Without exception, they express their disgust for the cruel treatment meted out to young soldiers, sailors, and pilots by their sadistic officers. The better men rose above that sort of thing and did not fall into the trap of imitating it. The weaker and less independent ones imitated it. The same sort of thing has happened recently in Iraq, with poorly educated and poorly led young American soldiers brutalizing Iraqi prisoners in a fiendish manner...but it would be hard to find any example of it that exceeds the terrible Japanese behaviour in World War II.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 03:51 PM

"I think it proves fairly well that Canadians, per se, are not appreciably better or smarter or more compassionate than anyone else."

No, we're not. But we do fund peace-keeping operations as opposed to war-making operations. And despite leading the world in bio-chemical research in the early 1960s, we got out of the business. So maybe we are not better or more compassionate, but we try to be. Even if we don't always make the grade.

Our treatment of Aboriginal/First Nations people is deplorable. Our 'homeless' situation is nothing to brag about, but we still manage to provide universal health care for all out citizens, and even people who are behind on their healt care premiums get treatment.

The bill per month per family is about $75. The bill per month for a single person is about $50. That's kinda neat.

Better? No. But we do try.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Auggie
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 04:25 PM

You folks up there can do as you please with your asbestos and beavers and Japanese immigrants and whatever the hell it is you serve your trout with, but I know I'd like it a whole lot better if you'd just keep your Massive Canadian Cold Fronts to yourselves.
Every damn time it gets nice here in the upper Midwest, one of those things races down from teflon-land and freezes the crap out of us.

Now I'm sure it's cleaner than those truly warm but viral infected, smog spreading humidity laden fronts that swing up from the Gulf of Mexico,and yes, I do believe the bumper sticker I once saw on an Ontario pick up truck that read "We Dont Mind -30F, It Keeps Away the Riff-Raff" but I'm getting too old to appreciate snow in May, so you hosers can keep it, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 04:38 PM

brucie said... "Our treatment of Aboriginal/First Nations people is deplorable." My son. Where you been ? I beg to differ, at length if you wish. We have paid through the nose to bring these people everything they could ever ask for. Free EVERYTHING, from housing through education through you name it. Just lately, they wanted to share in the fishing and the forestry here in New Brunswick. We bought them boats and we bought them woods harvesting equipment and we bought out existing licenses so they could share in the work. Well, they decided it was their right to fish outside of the season, thereby fucking over the existing fisherman AND the fish stocks. Nearly the same in the forestry. They want $6B in reparations for the woods harvesting carried on in New Brunswick over the past four hundered years - they never cut a stick unless they were cold and, for the most part, they haven't been cold since we've been paying for their heat. "Deplorable" ?. Nay, exemplary. Almost to a fault.

And if you are want to say they owned this land... bullshit. Nobody owns the land. That's one of the first laws of the Native Nations. You can use it, but you can't own it. Same with our laws. If you don't use it, you lose it. Try not paying your taxes and see how long you "own" your land.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 04:39 PM

I agree with you, brucie, but I would like us all - Canadians included - to keep in mind that Canada would not be as peaceful or prosperous or "nice" if the USA were not there with its umbrella.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 04:57 PM

Ebbie... "...umbrella." My dear. We are part of the Commonwealth. The most powerful military force on the earth. You should be thankful that you are on OUR side. Goodness gracious! We had to drag your ass into two world wars. Now you think you are OUR saviours?

You said I sounded like a Yank. Well, I fight like a Canadian. Come big or stay home.

SiX... I was talking to my Uncle Charley this afternoon. He was a motorcycle dispatch rider with the crowd that liberated the Netherlands in late WWII. The stories he tells would bring tears to Ebbie.

Never forget... http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 05:09 PM

In some ways that's true, Ebbie. And in some ways not.

I don't think I have ever slagged the USA. I have slagged your leadership, but not your people. I live in your country and made a living there for about 4-5 years. I like the US. I can't take it on myself and apologize because someone misquoted a web site somewhere and put down that the zipper and Velcro were Canadian inventions. It may even have been me about the zipper. It's not a matter of great import to me, frankly. Superman came from here but didn't become the 'superstar' he was to kids until he found an American publisher. Ask most people where Superman's from and they'll say the US. Same thing with basketball. These too are non-issues to me. As to the 'unbrella': Yes, the US has provided some security for my country. It has also provided some insecurity. The nukes that would have been involved in an exchange of missiles were geared to go over Canada--that is, the missiles from both the old USSR and the USA. Not every cloud has a silver lining.

Gnu, I agree we have thrown money at the situation to do with First Nation peoples. Lotsa money. And while we did that we have allowed it to go to corrupt Band councils. Most Reserves: I could walk down a street and point to houses and let you know who is connected to the members of the council. They are usually the nice places. The cruddy places? They belong to people who are not connected to the chief and the council. They get the leftovers when the 'upper' class has done with the accounting. So, we have spent our money stupidly. We have give the cash to people who by and large have little formal education. And we have expected them to invest that money wisely. Four of my nephews are Indian as defined by the Act. They all come from my sister and her ex--the same father for all four kids (adults now). Nephews 1, 3 and 4 are Treaty. Nephew 2 isn't. Ten friggin' years of paperwork and he's still not Treaty. I do understand your anger about disrupted fishing grounds and the unfairness of that situation. Very much so. But I would also suggest that it has been very stupid on our part to give millions of dollars and accept crappy accounting procedures from the Bands. I agree that no one owns the Earth. But look at any map and you'll see that is not the reality.

BM


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 05:12 PM

Link for Gnu's post above.

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 05:20 PM

The "umbrella" that protected Canada through most of its history was the British Empire. The USA basically took over the umbrella job after World War II, because the British had passed their apogee of power at that point and the USA was playing World Cop. Canada is essentially safe from direct attack of any great consequence by pretty well anyone BUT the USA, barring nuclear war...but that's an accident of geography. Mexico and Canada have both had the dubious pleasure of being located right next to the USA. Canada was invaded once in the War of 1812, but succeeded in holding its own. The British negotiated away the Pacific Northwest peacefully to the USA at a later date (Washington and Oregon area). Mexico was not so lucky. In a couple of wars they lost California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas...all of which were gobbled up by the USA. My, my. Take my word for this: it is dangerous living next to the USA. The Mexicans have never been in any doubt about that. Neither are the Cubans. Neither are we.

The American invasion now, though, is primarily an economic one. They save the military invasions for places a bit farther afield...places with swarthy leaders with facial hair! (gotta be evil to look like that, right?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 05:41 PM

brucie... as for "I agree that no one owns the Earth. But look at any map and you'll see that is not the reality." Uh-uh. As for Natives owning the land, which is the only way we could have stolen it, they didn't, we didn't, noone ever did.... we used it, within the parameters of a land usage system which is as fair as it could possibly be. The land is there, and STILL IS, for usage. You CANNOT own it, only use it. If you use it and pay the fees for that right, the taxes, to a democratic government, you get to continue to use it. Where does anyone "own" land outright, without the resposibility to use it or pay the taxes ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 05:51 PM

Not too many places, Gnu. Not too many. I know what comes next. I too think there should be tax on Reserve land. But the agreemants are such that that is not the way it is. It must have seemed like a good deal at the time th treaties were signed. And both parties signed them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 06:41 PM

Actually, nobody really owns anything. :-) We use stuff until it wears out or until we die. Then somebody else gets to use it, if it's still useful. This is specially true of land! Ownership is primarily a game aimed at preventing other people from using something, but nobody really owns anything...aside from their own body, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 08:44 PM

"Accident of geography" Agreed. But still part of the equation. There is no way that the US would allow Canada to be attacked or invaded without US response or involvement, even if only because of self interest due to the accident of geography. All countries are pretty much like that, I should imagine. You try to keep your enemies at a distance.

In those same self interests, there is no way Japan would have been as prosperous post-WWII if she had had to have a standing army. It is easy to criticize a country's war-mongering if you yourself don't have to do it because they are doing it. If you follow that convolution.

I sound like I am anti-Canada. I am not. But as a Yank I get tired of hearing Canadians moan about what the US is doing to their country- when the fact is that it is NOT the US doing it. Got a McDonald's in town? A Walmart? It was a Canadian who invited them in - on the same basis of self interest as the franchise itself.

The other side of that coin being presented is that Canada is this nation that has these good instincts and the sense to follow them. I talked with a lot of Canadians as I made my way from Windsor/Toronto to Prince Rupert- good people, interesting people, people I enjoyed talking with. But they were not necessarily any more good, interesting or enjoyable than the people I talked with on the US side of the border. Or not even necessarily more informed. I talked with one young man who lives in the bush in Quebec and there was no disputing his take on things that the US does, has done and will do. Incidentally, he too had the story of the US military handing out smallpox-laden blankets to our indigenous people. Although he had it as a recent event.

(In this country we have heard a story of tuberculous-impregnated blankets being donated to the Alaska natives. I don't necessarily believe either side of that story.)

The War of 1812 invasion. Ha. Almost two hundred years ago and it is still being used as a measure of how dangerous it is to live next to the USA?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 09:13 PM

Ebbie,

With due respect, if someone is ticking you off with an anti-American attitude, please take it up with him or her. If it's me, say so. If not, address it to who is, OK?

Thank you.

Bruce


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 09:40 PM

brucie, I'm not addressing it to you at all. Your attitude is a reasoned one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Peace
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 09:48 PM

Thank you. I will avoid the thread then. Didn't mean to presume. Sorry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 09:50 PM

I'm a lot more concerned about what the present US administration is doing to its own country than to Canada.

Canada is in the relatively comfortable position, psychologically speaking, of being a minor power that is not really seen as anyone's "enemy". We share that with countries like Holland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and so on...

It's a whole different ballgame when you are a superpower like the United States. In the World today, the USA is very much like Britain used to be or like the Romans once were. Such powers have many enemies.

That is not a judgement upon their citizenry, however. Americans are individually about as nice as Canadians or anyone else out there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 10:32 PM

gnu - You said, "We have paid through the nose to bring these people everything they could ever ask for. Free EVERYTHING, from housing through education through you name it. Just lately, they wanted to share in the fishing and the forestry here in New Brunswick."

Maybe you should take it up with your provincial govt. who is doing the negotiating. Its quite a bit different here in B.C.

In the first place there were no treaties in B.C. In the second place the claims are based on territorial hunting and fishing rights which never had anything to do with land ownership. Natives have food fishing rights here in B.C. which riled the non-native fisherman for awhile but now a resolution has been found by many. Non-natives largely own the boats but Natives have the licenses. That means that most of the crew are Native and everyone gets their fair share of the fish (commercial and non-commericial).

If you are going to destroy the hunting grounds by logging, why shouldn't they Natives get a share? Aren't they entitled to feed their families something besides white sugar and bleached flour?

Lets remember that most of the 'housing' was govt. housing provided by the govt. As usual, it was used to relocate Natives who were inhabiting land with valuable mineral resources. Such a deal! A Calif. special doesn't last long in the far North.

I really think you need to think outside the box a bit. In addition to taking their territorial land, we introduced many diseases, alcohol, firearms, and have practically destroyed their culture by taking the children from their families and sending them to residential schools, robbing them of their language and exposing them to sexual and physical abuse. Has any of this ever happened to you?

As far as education goes - have you looked at the high school graduation rate? Any Native who is strong enough to endure cultural genocide and graduate should be given the opportunity to attend post secondary. What is desperately needed is educated leadership.

Just curious, what makes you think you are entitled to take anything from this land? What makes you so entitled?


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Subject: RE: BS: Canada - the teflon country
From: gnu
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 06:19 AM

I'll try to respond to each question. Ebbie, I never said Canucks were better than Yanks. I defended against your one-sided information about Japanese interment during the war.

"If you are going to destroy the hunting grounds by logging, why shouldn't they Natives get a share?" They do. And we buy the equipment for them to do it and they pay no stumapage fees, no tax on the fuel, etc, while many others are losing their livelihood. But to ask for a $6B dollar payment as royalties for the last four hundred years ? As for hunting, I have witnessed them harvesting moose in the early fall, before the three day moose season (we have a draw for about 2300 licenses, down from 6200 in less than ten years after the Natives began their harvesting off reserve). I'll just say it's less than "conservationist". Hey, if you want some moose, salmon, lobster, no sweat, I know where we can get some, cheap, but we'll have to wait until after dark... and we'll use your car, OK?

"Aren't they entitled to feed their families something besides white sugar and bleached flour?" Yes. And we buy them lots. And not just grub and housing. I've never met a Native without a new pickup and snowmobile or ATV in the box.

"I really think you need to think outside the box a bit. In addition to taking their territorial land, we introduced many diseases, alcohol, firearms, and have practically destroyed their culture by taking the children from their families and sending them to residential schools, robbing them of their language and exposing them to sexual and physical abuse. Has any of this ever happened to you?"
No. Point well taken. When my forefathers' land was taken in Ireland they were granted new land in New Brunswick.

"What is desperately needed is educated leadership." Any Native that wants education gets it free.

"Just curious, what makes you think you are entitled to take anything from this land? What makes you so entitled?" I play fair and I work hard. I don't expect a free lunch. I am as entitled as anyone else... even the Natives.


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