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BS: Your favorite car ever....

Bobert 01 Feb 05 - 06:55 PM
GUEST,Skipy 01 Feb 05 - 06:57 PM
pdq 01 Feb 05 - 06:59 PM
Mr Red 01 Feb 05 - 07:01 PM
Bobert 01 Feb 05 - 07:08 PM
pdq 01 Feb 05 - 07:21 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 01 Feb 05 - 07:23 PM
beardedbruce 01 Feb 05 - 07:27 PM
Bunnahabhain 01 Feb 05 - 07:32 PM
Rustic Rebel 01 Feb 05 - 07:47 PM
kendall 01 Feb 05 - 07:56 PM
Bobert 01 Feb 05 - 07:58 PM
Cobble 01 Feb 05 - 08:01 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 01 Feb 05 - 08:31 PM
beardedbruce 01 Feb 05 - 08:35 PM
jaze 01 Feb 05 - 08:40 PM
Little Hawk 01 Feb 05 - 08:42 PM
Bobert 01 Feb 05 - 08:52 PM
GUEST,Hetero 01 Feb 05 - 09:08 PM
Peace 01 Feb 05 - 09:30 PM
Bill D 01 Feb 05 - 09:39 PM
Bill D 01 Feb 05 - 09:47 PM
Bobert 01 Feb 05 - 09:49 PM
Once Famous 01 Feb 05 - 09:59 PM
number 6 01 Feb 05 - 09:59 PM
GUEST,marks 01 Feb 05 - 10:10 PM
Bobert 01 Feb 05 - 10:43 PM
open mike 02 Feb 05 - 02:48 AM
hilda fish 02 Feb 05 - 03:42 AM
GUEST,MBSLynne 02 Feb 05 - 07:48 AM
GUEST,jim tailor 02 Feb 05 - 07:56 AM
GUEST,bbc at work 02 Feb 05 - 11:26 AM
GUEST,Bee-dubya-ell 02 Feb 05 - 01:47 PM
GUEST,ClaireBear 02 Feb 05 - 02:11 PM
Blissfully Ignorant 02 Feb 05 - 02:50 PM
frogprince 02 Feb 05 - 03:04 PM
dick greenhaus 02 Feb 05 - 03:14 PM
RolyH 02 Feb 05 - 03:17 PM
Bat Goddess 02 Feb 05 - 03:47 PM
Blissfully Ignorant 02 Feb 05 - 03:53 PM
Bill D 02 Feb 05 - 03:56 PM
*Laura* 02 Feb 05 - 04:00 PM
MBSLynne 02 Feb 05 - 04:11 PM
robomatic 02 Feb 05 - 05:24 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 02 Feb 05 - 05:35 PM
Bill D 02 Feb 05 - 06:15 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 02 Feb 05 - 06:25 PM
Bill D 02 Feb 05 - 06:41 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 02 Feb 05 - 06:45 PM
Richard Bridge 02 Feb 05 - 06:52 PM
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Subject: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 06:55 PM

Okay, I'm sure that a lot of folks will be surprised to find that Iz a certified motorhead... Sure I maybe temporarilly in semi-remission, though I still have couple cool rides under car cover but...

... I was wonderin' what cars others folks think to be the ultimate car???

'49 Hudson Hornet?

'39 Ford Coupe?

'56 T-Bird?

So which car/cars float yer boat???

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: GUEST,Skipy
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 06:57 PM

1.8 diesel escort van.
Skipy


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: pdq
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 06:59 PM

1978 Scout II


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:01 PM

Fiat Panda/Seat Marbella. any number of reasons but when I get squeezed by a fast idiot I usually catch him (a lot of hers these days) looking for a parking space. I squeeze in to less that 3 feet longer than my car's length if I have to. It ain't what yer got it's what ya do with it.

Cars are for transport.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:08 PM

Danged, pdq... I had a '78 Scout II. Had the 354 (?) V8 and the hardtop that came off... I had a tonue cover made that snapped above the windshield, had side which snapped and sloped bacl to the tailgate so when it rained, I'd just put it on and let it rain... I had it a couple years and loved it... In the winter when it snowed, man geeze o' man, that Scout (with hardtop) would grind thru snow like it weren't even there...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: pdq
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:21 PM

Bobert ... was yours blue? Holly 2V or Carter Termoquad?


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:23 PM

'56 T-Bird, and not just because Boberdz mentioned it. Always has been. Always will be.

Coulda had a '57 T-Bird for my first car. My mom's hairdresser had one for sale. But my parents wisely figured that since just about every kid wrecks his first car it'd be stoopid to give such a nice car to a 17 year-old idiot. And, anyway, I wuzn't enough of a motorhead to keep a 12-year-old T-bird runnin' right. So Mom gave me her '63 Impala SS and I wrecked it instead. Wuzn't my fault, I just hadn't learned all those defensive drivin' tricks yet. But it wuz wrecked just the same and if it'd been that T-Bird, it woulda been just as wrecked and I'da felt a lot worse about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:27 PM

1968 AMX... and I still have one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:32 PM

Any one I've got out of when my brother is driving. Maximum speed, maximum decibels, and minimum restraint.....

Bunnahabhain


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:47 PM

I've always wanted a Woodie wagon. Like the 41 Packard wagon. All wood sides and interior has wood roof, seats 8 people. Something like that. They run for about $125,000. right now.
I was in Santa Cruz for a Neil Young concert years ago and he drove down to the show in his Woodie. It was mint. I like the wagons or vans. (I like my 75 volkswagon bus too. It goes where no man has gone before!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: kendall
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:56 PM

Two that I used to own; a 1947 DeSoto, and a 1960 Mercedes Benz 220 S


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 07:58 PM

Nah, pdq, it was gray witha white fibergalss top. When I got it it had some rust in the rocker panels so I fixed it and repainted the entire car... It had a 4 barrel carb but I can't remember if it wasa a Carter, but it wasn't afternarker so if that;'s all they came with I guess it was... It did have duals, which I'm not sure was stock. It was a real nice ride. I owned it from 1989ish to 1992ish... One thing I do rememeber real well about it, it got lousy gas mileage...

'56 T-Bird was one hot car!!! My dad worker for Ford Motor Company as a district manager so he was always bringing home cool Fords. Some we'd keep for 6 months. Others aweek. I was a kid and never understood it to well but it sure was nice to have some cool ass Ford to ride in.

The coolest of the cool was a '56 Crown Vic with a 312 V8 and three 2 barrel carbs. I'm not too sure whoes idea it was but not only did it have the glass half roof but it also had a glass sunroof in the niddle of the hood so you could look down at the engine... Heck, I was only 10 years old but allready drawing cars every night so I was way into this Vic... Wish I had this car today...

But, true story. In 1964, at aged 17, my dad brought home an AC Cobra, 289/271 and I convinced him that it would be a great idea to let me drag race it as a promtional thing since Ford was allready drag racing a 427 '64 Galaxy named "Honking Henry". So for 7 glorious weeks I got to drive this Cobra to high school and to various drag stripes on the weekend to take on the local Corvette hero in the best-ouy-of-5 exhibtion until....

(drumbeat...)

one unfortunate Fridat night where, upon returning from Manassis Speedway, decided, along with a guy ina '63 Chevy SS with a 409 decided we hadn't gotten the racin' out of our systems at the drag strip and went at it hot and heavy and both got busted big time since both of us outran the cop but not his radio...

(Bad move, Bobert...)

Yeah, bad move. I went from Mr. Cool to Mr. Walkin'-to-School... Lost my license for ONE YEAR... Talk about a big dose of Humble Pie!!!!

Plus the car got impounded so my poor ol man musta had to eat a little of the pie himself onMonday mornin'...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Cobble
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 08:01 PM

The one that got me home after a good night out.

                               Yawn.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 08:31 PM

When I got my first car in the good old days
It was a 1951 Chevrolet
With white wall tires, 'cept for one that was black
Three speeds forward and no speeds back

No car can ever equal your first one, even if it didn't have a working reverse gear half the time.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 08:35 PM

Jerry,

Only back up the other half of the time!


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: jaze
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 08:40 PM

Never had one, but I always loved 57 Chevy's. My favorite car I owned was my 69 VW Beetle. Now, that car knew the way home!


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 08:42 PM

For practical uses: Any Subaru. They're marvelous. Specially the All-wheel drive ones. I have a front wheel drive one at the moment. I also like Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, and Mazdas. Banzai!!!

For classic looks: The great cars of the mid to late 30's! They were gorgeous looking vehicles. The Duesenbergs, Mercedes, Cord, Lincoln, Packard, you name it. Those were the height of aesthetic car design.

For more recent good looks: Jaguar XK sports cars, early MG sports cars, Triumph sports cars, old Mercedes SL's, and the like...from the 50's and 60's.

Bobert - You oughta call up Bruce Springsteen and compare notes! The guy is nuts on cars. He wrote some 500 or so songs. 479 of them are about girls and cars...or cars and girls...or girls in cars...or just cars...

"Baby, you can drive my car...
Beep! Beep! ummm... Beep! Beep! Yeah!" (Beatles)


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 08:52 PM

Yer gonna find this kinda funny, LH, but when I knew Bruce in '69 he was like, ahhhhh, 20 years old, maybe 21, an' I'd bet he didn't even know how to drive???

But, Subi's and Toyotaers ain't like, ahhhh, cool...

But MG-A's and Jag 120's are....


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: GUEST,Hetero
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 09:08 PM

1972 Lamborghini Espada, a 4 seater low slung sporty saloon, fast, sleek,soft hide seats.
Hetero


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Peace
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 09:30 PM

A picture is worth . . . . But, in red.

http://www.hubcapcafe.com/i/2000/white_bear/must6701.JPG


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 09:39 PM

my first car was also a 51 Chevy, like Jerry's was...2-tone green.

The most fun I ever had was with a 56 VW bus with a 59 engine....I turned it into a rolling office and parked on campus and had parties in it..*grin* (yeah, I had curtains)

but the car I've always wanted,(45 years or so, now) and I don't CARE how it runs, or how impractical it would be to maintain, is this... 1924 Hispano-Suiza H6C 'Tulipwood' Torpedo. Just pushes my buttons...


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 09:47 PM

the most interesting cars I ever rode in were an MG-TC...fun!

and a 1947 Lincoln sedan with wood paneling and leather seats...a friend bought it and took several of us for a 'spin' out US 50, east of Wichita, Kans...we tooled along for a bit, when the guy said "I'd better slow down some, it's kinda windy."...I'd been sitting in the back seat, not even noticing any 'speed', so I looked over the seat and saw the speedometer was at 105MPH!...That baby wasn't even straining...


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 09:49 PM

WOW, Bill...

Makes a Cord look like a Checker cab...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 09:59 PM

My first car, which was a 1963 Ford Galaxie 500.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: number 6
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 09:59 PM

I've always been a jeep cj7 fan, but only the ones built before 1986, before Chrysler took them over. That straight inline 4 litre 6 cylinder engine would last forever. Carbs could have been improved though. Easy to work on, fun to drive. Had 2 cj7's a 1981 and a 1984.

1954 MGB is always a fav of mine, also any Austin Mini, the originals that is.

Currently own a 2004 Subaru Outback, This is probably the best car I've ever owned.

How about the biggest POS ever produced. I'll endorse the AMC Pacer for that.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: GUEST,marks
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 10:10 PM

The '96 Impala SS. Best piece of iron ever to come out of Detroit. Size, speed, comfort, and at speeds over 85 settled down on the road and hugged it like a rug. Had a 350 LT1 that could be tuned to a fare the well with bolt on parts - I can only imagine what the car would do if you spent any money on it.
Never be another like it.
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 10:43 PM

Yo, GUEST, marks....

When GM came out with the replacement for the tried and true Impala boxy car with the "new 'n improved" model in the eraly 90's I thought it was about the ugliest car I've ever seen but...

... it grew on me little at a time...

Yeah, LT1 engine and beefy suspension in an SS model? Yeah, one cookin' hot rod...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: open mike
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 02:48 AM

Dodge Dart or Plymouth Valiant 6 cylender with Push Button Tranmission
63 or 64...when you lift the hood you can see and reach everything!
they ahd wheels that the lug nuts turned opposite directions on either side of the car....good little machines.

i also had a Dodge Colt Vista....8 passenger...4 wheel drive....
mitsubishi made them....this was in 85..they only hold 6 pass. now..
my uncle waas a Dodge/Chrysler dealer...got a horse in trade once.,..
and i got to have her after my cousin went away to college.

i also like my international travellall..it was a used high way dept.
crew vehicle....windows all around....when the engine blew up :-(
it made a great fruit dryer....and green house.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: hilda fish
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:42 AM

69 Chrysler Valiant with blue top and white bottom. That car was so great. Did Melb to Bris in 19 hours once when speeding wasn't such a social irresponsibility. Finally I couldn't afford to register it any more and it was running on only 6 of its 8 cylinders so we used it to round up the sheep and after that the cows. It's still going strong in the bush although it's lost its roof, its boot cover and it's tyres. Old Rover 90 was another one. It had lovely wooden dash and rode like a dream. I rode the crap out of it too and it looked after me very well. Now, well now I have a little white Japanese car that is economic, efficient, is easy to park, was cheap to buy and causes offense to no-one. It has no 'sex' (excuse me) in it but it gets me around. I am so practical these days!


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 07:48 AM

1949-51 2 1/2 litre Riley.

Though I'll admit to an inclination towards V8 Mustangs and just about any Jaguar that exists. And Landrovers......

Love Lynne


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: GUEST,jim tailor
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 07:56 AM

'66 Super Sport


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: GUEST,bbc at work
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 11:26 AM

Honda Civic wagon, 1985. My current car--2003 Suzuki Aerio SX AWD w/ ABS ain't half bad, either!

best,

bbc


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: GUEST,Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 01:47 PM

I had a '57 Chevy briefly during the 70's but sold it back to the "owner" because we couldn't get a clear title on it. So a few weeks later I was talking with a junkyard operator who assured me that for a few bucks he could have gotten me a title on the car by certifying that I had bought it from his yard as a wreck and restored it. But, of course, it was gone by then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: GUEST,ClaireBear
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 02:11 PM

My first car, a wonderful Triumph 2000 saloon, 1967 model, navy with wine-colored velvet upholstery. Drove like a dream, but had this tendency to get up to about 85 mph while I wasn't paying attention. The good thing about that was that the car actually looked like a beat-up old Datsun (if you weren't looking too closely), not like a fast car, so I never got stopped.

How I wish I could find another! But rare in England, impossible to find here in California.

But I was recently able to buy my husband HIS dream car for our tenth anniversary. Fortunately his tastes are humble: It's a 1961 Buick Skylark, two-tone blue and white, and he drives it everywhere! It was Buick's first foray into "muscle cars" and has a high-performance aluminum engine, but because the engine was (and is) pretty high-maintenance, the car was only made for three model years.

It's great fun being able to do that for the one I love, but it's a good thing he's not a Hispano-Suiza fan...

Claire


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 02:50 PM

I like sensible cars. Like Volvos..easy to drive, easy to maintain, easy to get parts for...


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: frogprince
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:04 PM

Bill D., have you seen that Hispanio Suizo "live"? It was at the Meadowbrook Concours near us a few years ago. Must agree, it's a wild, gorgeous design. Given a winning lottery ticket and one choice in the world, I would have a Duesenberg SJ. Give me two more choices and I would add a Continental MK II. and a '57 Bird.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:14 PM

Well, the three cars I've owned that I liked the most were:
a) a 1934 Studebaker Dictator Coupe (that's the model that placed fourth at that year's Indy)

b) a supercharged VW beetle and

c)a SAAB Sonett (I still have one)

All three were blasts to drive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: RolyH
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:17 PM

I loved my 1979 rusty Ford Cortina.

The body fell to bits before the engine did.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:47 PM

1954 MG-TF (dark blue, red interior) -- at the same time I also had a 1962 MGA 1600 Mark II (light metallic blue w/black interior) and a 1967 MGB-GT (white).

Alas, at the same time I had a model husband -- unfortunately, he wasn't a WORKING model, so I ended up selling the MGs to bail him out of some financial debacle. Didn't finally divorce him for another 8 years.

I was young and stupid. Selling the MGs was the biggest mistake of my life. Staying married to Hubby #1 for 10 years was my second biggest mistake. Third mistake was in not being able to buy the 1952-MG-TD with the 6-cylinder Italian racing engine that I found in a junk yard for $200. (It had been rear-ended.) I had neither the 200 bucks, nor a place to put it.

Linn


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:53 PM

Saabs, too, i like Saabs


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:56 PM

nope, frogprince,...never saw the Hispano live...good thing,...I mighta drooled on it, and been paying forever!..(and yes, a Dusenberg would be a decent 2nd or 3rd choice)Lots of those old European classics also ring my chimes.)

(oh,,one of the most interesting cars I saw was when I was a kid, 50+ years ago...they brought one of Hitlers limosines thru the US on a tour...bullet proof glass..etc..)


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: *Laura*
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 04:00 PM

old style mini.
and I am getting one oh-so-soon
(red with a union jack top - yeh!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: MBSLynne
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 04:11 PM

Oh yeah Laura! Forgot minis! Lucky you!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 05:24 PM

1955 Chevy. Our other car was a '56 Chevy. The kind of metal you could hit with a frying pan with nary a scratch. Big 8 cylinder engine in front with space all around and an oil bath for an air filter. No 'frills' like power brakes or steering, air conditioning, or seatbelts. Bumpers front and rear, each waying as much as a mini.

When the Volkswagen Dasher came out, its roof barely cleared my hood (bonnet). I'd get behind 'em in the fast lane and shine my brights into them until they got out of my way. I had a learner's permit!


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 05:35 PM

Looks like people's ages are showing by some choices---me, my favorite is my current one 1999 Camry---gets me where I want and is fairly trouble free.

What did I like the most though---just loved my 1969 Plymouth Fury III. Was like a ship on land---and was still going strong when I sold it w/ 130,000. The fellow who purchased it went to Calif. with it and kept using it there.   But for nostalgia--my family's 1st one---1947 Plymouth De-Luxe--the De Luxe meant it was $50.00 more and you got a chrome strip and---here it comes----a heater. I think it cost 800.00 (or less).

The times are not a-changin---they have changed.

By the way-why o why did they do away with those nice little draft windows. They really served a good purpose.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 06:15 PM

now, MANY years ago, when I worked at a grocery store, I carried out a big bunch of groceries for a lady and found they had to go into one of these!....an Izetta. She had 5 bags of stuff and 3 gallons of milk..(in glass bottles, then)...she climbed in, and I stacked the stuff around her as she assured me there would be someone at home to UNpack her!

I'd like to have one of these...or a Messerschmidt, which is similar, except that I'd be scared silly of what traffic would do to me!


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 06:25 PM

I cannot resist posting this story since Bill D mentioned Messerschmidt.

After WW2 a U S Army Air Force ace was giving a talk to a ladies garden group---and he said---"there were Fuckers to the right of me--there were Fuckers to the left of me"--at that point the chair lady interrupted to tell the assembled group that he is referring to the Folker--a German plane. He said--" Hell no lady---those Fuckers were Messerschidts".

Drum Roll please.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 06:41 PM

"Fokkers" wasn't it? 'folkers' are the residents of this place!


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 06:45 PM

Point well taken---and spelling point too---it surely was not Messershit.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite car ever....
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 06:52 PM

If I don't need to have owned one... Hmm.

Original (maybe 1932) Daimler Double Six

or 4 1/2 litre Invicta low chassis

Or speed 6 Bentley

or Facel Vega HK500

Or SSK Merc

or Allard J2X

Or SS100, or maybe XK150

or TVR Tuscan V8SE (about 1967)

Or Gordon Keeble GT

or Morgan Plus 8

Several Bristols are possible...

Aston DB4 Zagato

How could I forget - the 1 1/2 litre Straker-Squire.

So many cars, so little space...

Bugatti Royale...

Maybe a Pegaso...

Or an Isotta Fraschini...

Oh, and a propos planes, the funny thing is the Fokkers (not Folkers) were German in WW 1, but Allied (Dutch, I think) WW2


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