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BS: Burn Baby Burn

GUEST,Clint Keller 23 Nov 04 - 01:32 PM
Peace 23 Nov 04 - 10:34 AM
GUEST,US 23 Nov 04 - 01:35 AM
Peace 23 Nov 04 - 01:05 AM
GUEST,US 23 Nov 04 - 01:03 AM
Peace 23 Nov 04 - 12:49 AM
GUEST,US 23 Nov 04 - 12:46 AM
Peace 23 Nov 04 - 12:44 AM
GUEST 23 Nov 04 - 12:31 AM
Peace 23 Nov 04 - 12:29 AM
Peace 23 Nov 04 - 12:27 AM
GUEST 23 Nov 04 - 12:25 AM
GUEST 23 Nov 04 - 12:11 AM
Peace 22 Nov 04 - 11:56 PM
Peace 22 Nov 04 - 11:50 PM
GUEST 22 Nov 04 - 11:48 PM
Amos 22 Nov 04 - 11:48 PM
Peace 22 Nov 04 - 11:46 PM
Peace 22 Nov 04 - 11:43 PM
GUEST 22 Nov 04 - 11:43 PM
GUEST,US 22 Nov 04 - 11:39 PM
Peace 22 Nov 04 - 11:38 PM
GUEST 22 Nov 04 - 11:34 PM
Peace 22 Nov 04 - 11:32 PM
Peace 22 Nov 04 - 11:18 PM
GUEST,Guest, beardedbruce 22 Nov 04 - 11:11 PM
Peace 22 Nov 04 - 11:02 PM
GUEST,US 22 Nov 04 - 10:47 PM
GUEST,US 22 Nov 04 - 10:06 PM
GUEST,Guest,beardedbruce 22 Nov 04 - 10:05 PM
Rapparee 22 Nov 04 - 10:05 PM
GUEST,GUEST,Beardedbruce 22 Nov 04 - 10:02 PM
Peace 22 Nov 04 - 09:31 PM
Peace 22 Nov 04 - 09:24 PM
GUEST,US 22 Nov 04 - 08:55 PM
GUEST,Burnie 22 Nov 04 - 08:42 PM
CarolC 22 Nov 04 - 04:40 PM
Peace 22 Nov 04 - 03:49 PM
Metchosin 22 Nov 04 - 03:47 PM
GUEST,Burnie 22 Nov 04 - 03:17 PM
GUEST,US 22 Nov 04 - 01:44 PM
Peace 20 Nov 04 - 10:59 PM
Rapparee 20 Nov 04 - 10:42 PM
Peace 20 Nov 04 - 10:37 PM
Rapparee 20 Nov 04 - 08:53 PM
Peace 20 Nov 04 - 08:16 PM
Peace 20 Nov 04 - 08:05 PM
GUEST,US 20 Nov 04 - 07:52 PM
Peace 20 Nov 04 - 07:45 PM
GUEST,US 20 Nov 04 - 07:43 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:32 PM

As I recall the debate, when talkiing about the war in Iraq, Bush said something to the effect that we were atttacked and he had to defend the country. It was only when Kerry said that Iraq didn't attack us that Bush said "I know that!"

Now you may argue that Bush's first remark was only an implication, but saying that an attack on Iraq was a defense against the attack on 9/11 could only mean that he considered Iraq responsible. That's the concept behind the word "defense;" protecting oneself against those who attack you.

Likewise, when a reporter asked Ari Fleischer about the innocent civilians killed in Iraq he said "The true innocents are those who died on 9/11." That's the old terrorist catchphrase:"There are no innocents." And if you think Ari F and George W weren't trying to connect Saddam and 9/11 you are a different kind of innocent.

clint


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 10:34 AM

I don't know, and now I am left to understand that neither do you. When you find out, please let the rest of us know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:35 AM

Assuming that you know, I will ask you.

Uncle Sam


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:05 AM

It wasn't about terrorism. It is no longer about Hussein. No WMDs. So, what are you still doing there?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:03 AM

No Shit?

Uncle Sam


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:49 AM

S Hussein is finished. Has been for months.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:46 AM

I never got any impression from anybody that Saddam was responsible for 9/11.

All I have seen from the administration is that Saddam did support terrorism. There was at least one terrorist training camp in Iraq. Al Qaeda members evidently trained there. And he did pay the familys of Palestinian suicide bombers.

Therefore he should be a target in the war on terrorism like Iran and Korea.

Uncle Sam


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:44 AM

If you can make a two minute response, so do you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:31 AM

they were wrong about Kerry, too.


btw, if you get upset about a two minute response time, you have bigger problems to worry about than this thread...


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:29 AM

C'mon, Guest, give us an answer will ya?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:27 AM

Does the math but doesn't answer the question.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:25 AM

"So, why do about 60% of the American people think they are? "


100-48 = 52.... So at LEAST 8% of those who voted for Kerry think that the Iraqis were responsible for 9/11...


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:11 AM

Amos:

Can you glean us some quotes that say Saddam was responsible for 9/11?

All I see are insinuations.

Uncle Sam


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:56 PM

That's like you'll bet on the winner and I'll bet that you'll pick the winner, right?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:50 PM

I'll take that bet. So, how's one of us gonna win?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:48 PM

brucie,

Can I bet on the superbowl with you? I think that the team I'll pick is the winning one...


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Amos
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:48 PM

It's on record with more than one witness that Bush demanded his staff seek a link to tie Saddam to 9-11, startiong on 9-12.

Here's another tidbit: "When interviewed by Tim Russert, Vice President Cheney asserted that Iraq was "the heart of the base" for the 9/11 terrorists and went on from there with a series of half-truths and outright deceptions about almost every topic broached, including his supposed lack of current "financial interest in Halliburton ." Mr. Cheney, a master of the above-reproach dead pan, just kept going, effortlessly mowing right through any objections by the host. The vice president was banking, as Dr. Dean did on "This Week," on a cultural environment in which fiction and nonfiction have become so scrambled  and can be so easily manipulated by politicians and show-biz impresarios alike  that credibility itself has become a devalued, if not archaic, news value. This is why the big national mystery of the moment  why do almost 70 percent of Americans believe in Mr. Cheney's fictional insinuation that Saddam Hussein had some hand in 9/11?  is not so hard to crack. As low as the administration's credibility may be, it is still trusted more than the media trying to correct the fictions the White House plants in the national consciousness." --Frank Rich, NMYT, 09.28.03

See also http://www.bushwatch.net/thoreau.htm.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:46 PM

That 48% still thinks he was a winning candidate--just that he lost. Unfortunately, that half of the country does not perceive your President to be a winner.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:43 PM

US,

I saw the transcript of that TV interview you speak of, and yes Bush did say that. As I noted above, I was wrong. Makes twice in three decades, and the last time was when I thought I'd made a mistake.

However, the connection is there in the public's mind if polls are anything to go by. This administration has done a job of linking the two, and you will have encountered that info in many of the same places we both looked.

BM


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:43 PM

Well, brucie, some 48% or so thought that Kerry was a winning candidate. I guess people can be wrong, can't they?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:39 PM

You cannot equate poverty and poor housing with terrorism. Terrorists are human. Poverty, poor housing & bad health care are conditions.

I see no clear and obvious connection. In fact I have seen on TV, in an interview, Bush saying "of course there was no connection between Saddam and 9/11" I have searched for a transcript of that interview on the net and I cannot find it. I think it was on PBS.

Yes Bush has said on several occasions that there were WMDs in Iraq and that has so far been found to be wrong. The fact that others who are now calling Bush a liar said the same thing but now they are not accountable for what they said but they claim Bush is accountable.

If Bush was a liar, they were and are just as guilty of lying.

Uncle Sam


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:38 PM

Yes, you're right. They implied it but never did say it. I stand corrected. So, why do about 60% of the American people think they are?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:34 PM

brucie,

I am afraid you cannot read.
"SAID that the Iraqis were responsible for 9/11. "

Do you say that ALL the terrorism in the world is 9/11?

The statement that Iraq did support terrorism is true- YOUR statement that the Bush administration said that Iraq was responsible for 9/11 is false.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:32 PM

"In September 2003, Cheney said Iraq under Saddam had been "the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11."

So, is someone from his administration saying it OK? Or that's not Bush, right?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:18 PM

So then BB, are you saying that the Iraqis are not responsible for terrorism?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Guest, beardedbruce
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:11 PM

brucie,

You make a statement that the Bush administration SAID that the Iraqis were responsible for 9/11. You have been challenged to show the truth of that statement, and failed.

Give it up.

Just because you want to believe something false is true does not mean that the rest of us here have to humor you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:02 PM

That same argument was used about Vietnam antiwar protest. That was another war with ill-defined objectives and no end in sight. It cost over 57,000 American military personnel their lives and brought much misery to your country and many of those who returned home wounded in body, mind and/or spirit.

I do not doubt the courage of the guys and gals in Iraq. BUT, it is not an issue of patriotism or saying something as simple as what you have above. It wasn't in Vietnam and it isn't now. It is about the responsibility YOU have to request some serious answers from your leaders. The people fighting against the USA and allies in Iraq may not have been your enemy when the war started, but they are now. Suggesting that antiwar protest is aiding the 'enemy'--well, it's much like saying that people who protest poverty or poor housing or bad health care are responsible by their protest for what they are protesting; are somehow responsible for making their situation worse. I don't buy that argument. Nor do I 'buy' the reasons for the US being in Iraq.

BB, you can split all the hairs you want with what Bush said to congress, but the connection is clear and obvious. Like it or not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:47 PM

If I could be in the position to kill some terrorists, I would. I would take the personal risk of being killed or woulded in the process.

However what you anti-war protesters are doing is detrimrntal to our military. It is dragging out the war and causing more people to be killed and wounded because the terrorists think the anti-war protests are a sign that they can win.

Uncle Sam


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:06 PM

You are confirming the fact that there was no statement that Saddam was responsible for 9/11.

Uncle Sam


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Guest,beardedbruce
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:05 PM

* Iran aggressively pursues these weapons and exports terror, while an unelected few repress the Iranian people's hope for freedom.* "


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:05 PM

Dear Unk,

If you are so Goddamned worried about who has balls and who doesn't, why aren't you in the Marines? Or the Army, or the Air Force, or even the Navy? Oh, wait, let me guess...you're a Gutless Wonder, an Armchair General, a Sunshine Patriot and a Summer Soldier!

Your kind make those who served and who are still serving, those who have risked their lives and those who are risking their lives, puke.

Go away -- the sixties ended forty years ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,GUEST,Beardedbruce
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:02 PM

brucie,


"I have searched for incidences of the Bush administration saying that Saddam was responsible for 9/11 and I cannot find any."

"* Iraq continues to flaunt its hostility toward America and to support terror. The Iraqi regime has plotted to develop anthrax and nerve gas and nuclear weapons for over a decade."

Both of the above statements are true. Where does the second one state that Saddam was responsible for 9/11?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 09:31 PM

Now, which part of that did you have trouble finding?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 09:24 PM

The words of Dubya to your congress.

Fight freedom's fight against Axis of Evil

    * Our goal is to prevent regimes that sponsor terror from threatening America or our friends and allies with weapons of mass destruction. Some of these regimes have been pretty quiet since September 11, but we know their true nature. North Korea is a regime arming with missiles and weapons of mass destruction, while starving its citizens.
    * Iran aggressively pursues these weapons and exports terror, while an unelected few repress the Iranian people's hope for freedom.
    * Iraq continues to flaunt its hostility toward America and to support terror. The Iraqi regime has plotted to develop anthrax and nerve gas and nuclear weapons for over a decade.

States like these, and their terrorist allies, constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. The price of indifference would be catastrophic. We can't stop short. History has called America and our allies to action, and it is both our responsibility and our privilege to fight freedom's fight.
Source: State of the Union speech to joint session of Congress Jan 29, 2002


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 08:55 PM

Iraq had caused the 9/11 tragedy

I have searched for incidences of the Bush administration saying that Saddam was responsible for 9/11 and I cannot find any.

All I can find is insinuations that the Administration insinuated thet Saddam was responsible.

Maybe you can find them.

The Charge is that Saddam was pro terrorist.

Uncle Sam


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Burnie
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 08:42 PM

CC:

What assistance?

B


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:40 PM

Morocco is and has been a strong supporter of US foreign policy in the Middle East, and although the government of Morocco publicly opposed the US war against Iraq, it has provided some assistance to the US in this effort. So in this case, the country being fucked over would be Iraq.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:49 PM

Guest US:

I have said before and I will say again--my opinion of terrorism is that terrorists should be shot just after the trial which should take less than ten minutes on a slow day. However, the USA has other plans in Iraq. The bullshit about invading because Iraq had caused the 9/11 tragedy was never founded in fact. Your country has made up bullshit reasons to invade another state. And in the process of invading a sovereign nation you have created terrorists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:47 PM

A attacks B, therefore B attacks C. Logical?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,Burnie
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:17 PM

CC:

What country was Morroco fucking over to cause a terrorist attack there?

B


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 01:44 PM

Brucie:

You don't realize it but you are working for the terrorists. That is what they do. They terrorize people so they are a afraid to fight back. The ones that are afraid try to influence the others with balls not to fight.

You can wrap your ass backward reasoning in all the intellectual wisdom you want but the logic is quite simple.

Uncle Sam


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 10:59 PM

And yes, Guest US: we are aware that US Marines are risking their lives to help civilians--they always have. It's the "policy" most of us disagree with. This war--unfettered and undirected by elected people in Washington--left to the military, would be over now--would have been over months ago. You can't seem to get your head around the idea that your C-in-C is a complete and utter dolt, and that he and the VP do not mind how many people they cause to be killed on either 'side' of this whole thing. Their interest is not what you seem to think it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 10:42 PM

So...if they're dead, they're insurgents.

"We had to destroy the village in order to save it."


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 10:37 PM

GUEST, US:

"However, the Iraqi authorities deny that Fallujah residents are suffering severe difficulties. In an interview with Arabya Television on Tuesday, interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi said the situation in the city was under control and that there was no humanitarian crisis. He also claimed that only insurgents had been affected by the attacks, adding that he believed no civilians had been killed."

That was taken from an article which is linked on the thread "BS: Humanitarian aid to Fajullah?" Allawi sounds like your kinda guy. Nothin' to see here; move along.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 08:53 PM

I am an American, and I am most decidely not a pacifist, GUEST US. In point of fact, I served during Vietnam as an 11B40, Light Weapons Infantry -- a grunt, a gravelcruncher, an eleven bush. I'm a pretty fair shot with pistol, rifle, shotgun -- and once upon a time with the M-60 machine gun, M-79 grenade launcher, and the 81 mm mortar. I've taught hand-to-hand combat. I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, and should it ever again happen that I must use a weapon on another person, that person will die.

From your posts, GUEST US, you seem to be all mouth and no action -- in my mother's words, you "talk a good line" and that line is pure crap.

When you know enough about fighting and warfare, whether individual, small unit, even TO, that you surpass the Modern Major General's knowledge of commisariat; when, in other words, you have proven yourself on the battlefield as Colin Powell, Bob Kerrey, or John McCain has -- then, perhaps, you may have earned the right to express an opinion.

In the meantime, do yourself and the nation a favor and shut the hell up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 08:16 PM

GUEST, US:

You are likely the worst enemy your country has--because you follow blindly. You ring of people from uglier times who said things like "My country, right or wrong" or "I was only following orders." You live in a democracy of sorts, and you have quit your responsibility to hold your government accountable.

Yes, you follow the drums, and you imply that those who are not for you are necessarily against you, but many who disagree with you do so from a sense of patriotism and love for their country. They hate to see it shamed by bad leadership and poor excuses. Platitudes mean little, and you have been spouting lots of them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 08:05 PM

Your shorts too tight?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 07:52 PM

Is your hat uncomfortable?

Uncle Sam


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 07:45 PM

What coalition?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burn Baby Burn
From: GUEST,US
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 07:43 PM

You candy asses are helping the terrorists and harming the coalition forces.

You are also causing innocent bystanders like M Hassan to be murdered.

You give the terrorists the idea that they can force the coalition forces to leave if they fight long enough.

Uncle Sam


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