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BS: Dyslexia

GUEST,ragdall 27 Jan 05 - 03:09 AM
GUEST,yemi 26 Jan 05 - 09:27 PM
LadyJean 26 Jan 05 - 01:11 AM
GUEST,ragdall 25 Jan 05 - 10:30 PM
Bobert 25 Jan 05 - 10:11 PM
GUEST,ragdall 25 Jan 05 - 09:58 PM
goodbar 25 Jan 05 - 09:09 PM
Irish sergeant 25 Jan 05 - 04:39 PM
GUEST,Rod 25 Jan 05 - 12:03 PM
mg 24 Jan 05 - 10:55 PM
Peace 24 Jan 05 - 08:51 PM
GUEST,McKnees 24 Jan 05 - 08:40 PM
GUEST,Art Thieme 24 Jan 05 - 05:35 PM
Teresa 24 Jan 05 - 12:57 AM
dianavan 24 Jan 05 - 12:39 AM
GUEST,John from Hull 23 Jan 05 - 05:38 AM
dianavan 01 Dec 04 - 08:40 PM
sue exhull 01 Dec 04 - 02:31 AM
LadyJean 01 Dec 04 - 12:11 AM
Paco Rabanne 30 Nov 04 - 06:59 AM
sue exhull 30 Nov 04 - 06:58 AM
Paco Rabanne 30 Nov 04 - 06:19 AM
Helen 30 Nov 04 - 02:41 AM
dianavan 29 Nov 04 - 09:37 PM
vectis 29 Nov 04 - 05:00 PM
sue exhull 29 Nov 04 - 06:40 AM
Helen 29 Nov 04 - 04:39 AM
GUEST,SueB 28 Nov 04 - 08:41 PM
GUEST,SueB 28 Nov 04 - 08:04 PM
Helen 28 Nov 04 - 03:25 PM
*Laura* 28 Nov 04 - 12:27 PM
sue exhull 28 Nov 04 - 11:49 AM
Ellenpoly 28 Nov 04 - 10:54 AM
Helen 28 Nov 04 - 07:20 AM
sue exhull 28 Nov 04 - 04:27 AM
GUEST,SueB 28 Nov 04 - 02:50 AM
Helen 28 Nov 04 - 02:40 AM
GUEST,SueB 28 Nov 04 - 02:28 AM
Ellenpoly 28 Nov 04 - 02:26 AM
dianavan 28 Nov 04 - 01:00 AM
GUEST,SueB 28 Nov 04 - 12:15 AM
Helen 27 Nov 04 - 10:56 PM
Liz the Squeak 27 Nov 04 - 06:26 PM
vectis 27 Nov 04 - 04:26 PM
Ellenpoly 27 Nov 04 - 11:02 AM
Helen 27 Nov 04 - 06:05 AM
dianavan 27 Nov 04 - 05:06 AM
Ellenpoly 27 Nov 04 - 02:30 AM
LadyJean 27 Nov 04 - 02:01 AM
GUEST,SueB 26 Nov 04 - 12:54 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,ragdall
Date: 27 Jan 05 - 03:09 AM

I have a question. An individual told me that as long as the first and last few{ cant remember exactly how many) letters of a word were correct one could identify the word. Has anyone herd that before? if so could you reply with a link where I could find more on this?

GUEST,yemi
I think that you will find what you are looking for here

rags


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,yemi
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 09:27 PM

I have a question. An individual told me that as long as the first and last few{ cant remember exactly how many) letters of a word were correct one could identify the word. Has anyone herd that before? if so could you reply with a link where I could find more on this?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: LadyJean
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 01:11 AM

My advice for Katie is beware of therapies that promise miracles. Perhaps you are the remarkable parent who can love a kid who's a lemon. Lucky Katie. If you do, those therapies will still be a temptation. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a normal child.
But if the price of normal is say, not being allowed to listen to music, which was also part of the DelCato therapy I endured, (I still feel guilty if I sing.) Question that therapy. Talk to other parents who've tried it. Find out what the critics say.
I decided some time ago that learning disabilities are nature's way of keeping smart people from becoming geniuses. You've met very bright people who coast through life, without ever making an effort.
Which doesn't keep them from having world class egos. I spent much too much of yesterday with a woman like that.
I can't coast, and I have a deep sense of my own self worthlessness.
I could never join Mensa. I couldn't pass the test. A friend who did join that organization for the super intelligent says she spent three days playing Crazy 8s.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,ragdall
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 10:30 PM

Bobert,
Thank you for explaining. Sorry to be so dull that I didn't "get it". I had great hope that I'd found "the truth", or at least an excuse to explain my difficulties.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 10:11 PM

Ahhhh, sorry, GUESR ragdall, but I jus' kinds do a plyfill little thing with the word dexlexia and turn it into lexdexia... Like, fir lexdexics as myself, who cares... We certainly don't...

But, yeah, I was having a little private caht with another Catter this evening and she was tryin' to figure me out and a lot of me-to-figure-out is about learning disabilities...

Nowm we all know how jOhn from Hull is purdy dangedd bright an' I'd like to think myself as half bright but Lexdexics jusr dobn't ptocess inforamtion like other folkx. It ain't 'bout intellegence. Heck, Einstien was lexdexic, wasn't he?

(Dnged if anyone really knows, Bobert, since it weren't invented yet...)

Nevermind that last comment about Einstien...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,ragdall
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:58 PM

Bobert,
The information you wrote, 12 Nov 04 - 08:54 AM, about lexdexia sounds very much like problems that I have. I'd like to find out more about it. I googled "lexdexia" and found no information. Is it really a condition, or did you invent the word?

thank you.

rags

P.S. I also have the problem which Helen described:
I find it a very conscious experience using a typewriter or keyboard because I learned to touch type about 30 years ago but I still hit the wrong keys by hitting the key with the corresponding finger on the other hand, e.g. instead of an "s" (left hand, ring finger) I would hit an "l" (right hand, ring finger).

I've always attributed that to problems with "Laterality", Helen, not dyslexia.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: goodbar
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 09:09 PM

there's a teacher at my school who's dyslexic. it's crazy. i had her for a sub once and she wrote a bunch of crap on the board and it was all written backwards. we were all just sitting there like "what the hell?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 04:39 PM

As a dyslexic person, I take mno offence. I have tricks I use to spell properly and Spell check is a God send. Guest Rod; How do I know that I'm seeing your name properly maybe it's real Dor. :~) I as never officially diagnosed as dyslexic but I did have a hell of a time in school because of it and it was only recently I discovered why. Kindest regards, Neil


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,Rod
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 12:03 PM

Does an agnostic dyslexic believe in the existence of Dog?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: mg
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 10:55 PM

I can write upside down and backwards two hands at once...I also could not tell if a book was upside down or rightside up...couldn't tell right from left till I was 12..couldn't catch a ball...but I was a mousy little girl who did well in school so they wouldn't have thought of me as having a problem. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 08:51 PM

Dear McKnees,

Straight up, that type of thing is disgraceful to the teaching profession. NO teacher has the right to belittle a student, and I don't care WHAT the circumstances are. I was a student once, too, and I went through some of that. Anyone who does that should do us all a favour and get another line of work.

The condition you describe is ringin' a bell with me. Possibly someone will answer you before I get back. I will look though and post within the next 48 hours.

Bruce

PS I once attended an interview held by a superintendent and school principal. I was applying for a teaching position. About ten minutes into it, they said, "How do you feel about the use of corporal punishment in schools?" My eyes popped wide open and I said, "Huh?" The principal said, "We use the strap here." I couldn't believe it. I shook my head and said, "Not in MY classes you don't!" I got up and remarked that since the interview was over I'd be leaving. That was 18 years ago. Hard to believe, isn't it? I received the strap many times as a student. Never taught me a darn thing.

BM


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,McKnees
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 08:40 PM

I have carefully and painstaking read this whole thread and so many things have struck a cord with me as things that I do or things I did that I am now wondering if I am dyslexic. I want to ask if anyone who has been diagnosed as dyslexic has drawn upside down. I also want to write a part of this message how I used to see the written word, so here goes. Wheniwasyoungeranditriedtoreadtherewerenospacesbetweenthewords. I wondered if this was possibly dyslexia. Does anyone know because I would feel that all the name calling and the belting from the teachers were not totally mhy fault.
McKnees


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 05:35 PM

My sister was stopped on the highway by a dyslexic state cop. He was checking for I.U.D.s   ***SMILE***

Art


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Teresa
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:57 AM

Oddly enough, my spelling is great, but I am dysnumeric, or so I call it. I get numbers swimming in my head backward and forward when I try to do arithmetic. I transpose phone numbers constantly. I also have a horrible sense of direction. Well, actually, I can re-create the route, though half the time it's exactly backwards!

Teresa


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:39 AM

John from Hull - Perhaps what Mark Cohen was saying is that learning to read is more difficult for dyslexics than for others - it is not impossible but it is often delayed. Many dyslexics do become good readers but their spelling skills suffer throughout their life. This may also be due to a poor visual memory.

But heh, don't sweat it. Everyone has their cross to bear. Be happy that you can walk and talk. You probably can hear quite well, too. We all have some imperfection.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,John from Hull
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 05:38 AM

Dr Mark Cohen-
I was diagnosee with dislexia wehn i was 13 years old, my reading is fine, my spelling is crap, [if i spelll big words here, i'm probably using a dictionarry].

Throughought [sp?] my working life, I have chosen jobs that do not need a great deal of writing/spelling, [van driver, slaughterman, baillif, soldier etc]


I do NOT want sympathy, [or special traeatmant], waht i do not want is arseholes like radewolf trying to diagnose me. wehn they have not even met me, thats waht pisses me off, he's an arrogant, up his own arse self opinionated wanker, he's also a weird bastard with an un natural interest in litte kids [other peoples opinin not mine, [ive never met the bloke, and don't wish to].


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 08:40 PM

sue exhull - From reading your posts, I'd say Katie is very lucky to have you as a mother. Learning disabled children are not always a tremendous disappointment but they are a lot of work. I think a good parent will always try to give their child the most opportunities in life. Its not easy to push and pull but who knows their child better? Who is in a better to make those decisions than the person who has to live with the results? Thats why kids have parent.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: sue exhull
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 02:31 AM

Hi ladyjean, Im not quite sure what you mean, it sounds like you are saying "dont try to force something thats not there" am i right? I know of people who have done just that, not accepting the fact that their child has problems, its cruel, I havent done that with Katie, I constantly try new things so she can try to reach her full potential, but I accepted long ago that she will never be a brain surgeon :) to be honest, years ago, i said as long as she wakes up every morning that enough for me,and I still say that, but, its amazing how many people are quick to condem me for it, saying I arent giving her a chance, I should force things a bit more, whatever anyone does when they have a child with a disability they cannot win, it would seem, good job Katie is mine and not theirs, I say! any opinions??? best wishes sue


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: LadyJean
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 12:11 AM

I did cross pattern creeping as a child, when people made me. I didn't much car for crawling around and around the dining room table. But my parents were convinced it would make me normal. They spent a certain amount of time beating themselves up for "letting" me walk too soon.
I was also supposed to walk like a chorus girl being a tin soldier, swinging the right arm, and the left leg, then left leg and right arm.
The crawling was a private affair, so if the grownups insisted, I crawled. I was not doing the silly walk! I got teased enough thank you.
That went double for the special sleeping position. A person's bed is her castle.
Learning disabled children are a tremendous disappointment. For the first four or five years of a child's life, you think you have a normal kid, maybe even a smart kid. Then he starts regular school, and struggles to get Cs. Instead of a genius who will make you proud, you get a high maintenance child for whom you have to make excuses.
So, some parents embrace unpleasant therapies. They promise that, eventually, you'll have a nice, normal child, and in the meantime, you can make her life miserable, for her own good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 06:59 AM

200!


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: sue exhull
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 06:58 AM

HI everyone Thanks for all your help, I didnt realise people were so kind, Taking time to read about Katies problems (she is fifteen by the way, but in someways she is alot younger) I will certainly try the coloured envelopes that is a good idea !!! I will look out for a reverse spelling dictionary too, that sounds like a great idea. She is waiting for something called a Alph-smart from her school, she should have had one over 2 years ago, her old school never came up with it(even tho it said in her Statement of special needs she needed it) then we moved here and over a year on we have just been told it should be here after xmas!!! WE ARE NOT HOLDING OUR BREATH!!!! Katie is remarkably good on the keyboard, she can write whole paragraphs without looking at the keyboard, I cant write my own bloody name doing that! I have told her about the drawing suggestion, she does try to draw but gets frustrated when it goes wrong, thanks again for your help it really is appreciated, Katie says thanks too   bye for now sue and katie


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 06:19 AM

100!! I think I might be number dyslexic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Helen
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 02:41 AM

Sue exhull,

There are also some neat books called reverse spelling dictionaries where you look up the way you would spell it and it tells you how it should be spelt. It works if the person compiling the dictionary thinks of the same possible spelling errors but it's pretty clever. A lot of people who have trouble spelling find it very difficult to look up dictionaries because they don't know how to spell the word. The old "there's a hole in the bucket" routine.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 09:37 PM

sue exhull - You didn't say how old your daughter is. Concentrate on the reading. As far as penmanship goes, as long as it is legible don't worry. What is more important is that she learns to express her thoughts in written form. Drawing is a good beginning to develop language expression. Be sure that she includes colour and detail. Start there and help her to describe the story.

Don't forget we have word processors. Teach her keyboarding skills and let her write with a computer. Use spell check. I wish I could be more help.

Good luck,

d


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: vectis
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 05:00 PM

Dolland and Aitchison have a lot of branches that test the efficacy of coloured lenses ask at your local branch and see if they know a local optician that does the test if they don't do it in your area.
As a quick check invest in a set of coloured plastic A4 wallets (about £1 for five) at your local stationers.The pack contains one each of blue, yellow, pink, green and clear. Slip them one by one over a page she's reading and see if any colour helps. Not an exact science but cutting down the glare from white paper might help a bit and you never know, you might just get lucky.
Mary


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: sue exhull
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 06:40 AM

Hi Sue B Thanks for website. Katie can actually read quite well, not as well as she should but ok, its spelling and writing she has problems with, she turns letters round etc and writes very badly, it doesnt help shes left handed and her blind eye is her left eye,we have to be careful which pen she uses as she smudges everything shes just wrote with her arm!! we are waiting to see the Neoro.surgeon again to find out what he has decided to do(Im dreading it) but ..... Anyway I will check out website ,thanks for your help    sue


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Helen
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 04:39 AM

So, SueB, why am I more comfortable reading with my tinted lenses or with tinted paper? Am I self-delusiona?

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 08:41 PM

Sue Exhull - it sounds as though what you need is a Reading Specialist. If you can't find a reading specialist, you could look for a book called Reading Reflex, by Carmen and Geoffrey McGuiness
(recommended in Overcoming Dyslexia as a good resource for older children.) It starts with simple diagnostic tests to determine your child's reading level - a blending test, phoneme segmentation test, auditory processing test, and a code knowledge test. That may sound complicated, but it's very well explained in this book, and the instructions are easy to follow. Then it gives you what you need to develop these four skills and turn your child into a fluent reader. The approach works very well for people with dyslexia. You can check out the website - www.readamerica.net.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 08:04 PM

In response to Helen saying "you gave the impression of a blanket dismissal of a broad range of scientific studies" I have clearly not made my point - I am dismissing, on the basis of extensive investigation, a broad range of UNscientific studies, based on disproven or unprovable theories.

In response to Helen's assertion that "it is impossible to generalise about dyslexia and dyslexics", you are quite frankly, Helen, incorrect. What they have been able to discover with the use of functional MRI's is neither speculative nor inconsistent. I am talking about recent scientific breakthroughs - cutting edge research, from neuroscientists at the Yale Center for the Study of Learning and Attention, undertaken in the last decade.   

Also, Helen, you say that "even the studies that have been done would not have been able to test all of the different manifestations of dyslexia." I really think it would be helpful to you to read the Shaywitz book, and the research done at Yale - it would do a lot to de-mystify the disorder for you.

Dr. Shaywitz doesn't go into Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome, but here's an excerpt from one of Ellenpoly's links:

"In 1983 (remember, before we really could see into the brain) a woman named Helen Irlen hypothesized that there might be an underlying neurological problem in encoding and decoding visual information for some people who have trouble learning to read, or for people who have trouble with sustained reading. She futher hypothosized that this problem can be alleviated by adjustments to the appearance of the printed page: that is, special colored lenses in glasses, or colored overlays on the page, and so forth.

They are not such bad hypotheses; its just that the hypothoses, repeatedly, have not been borne out by research.

Since the late 1999s, with the ability to see the brain in action with "functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging" (fMRI) we are learning a lot about dyslexia, and what will and will not work. But parents, or misguided educators, are still recommending "treatments" that have been proven not to work. The internet has made the number of scams, quack diagnoses, and quack treatments even more widely available.

One of these quack diagnoses is "Scotopic Sensitivy Syndrome", also known as Irlen Syndrome.

From an essay by Eugene Helveston, M.D., in Perspectives (IDA)


The perspective afforded by observing the evolution of the concept of scotopic sensitivity syndrome and the treatment with tinted lenses leads to the conclusion that this effort has resulted in classic group behavior. The concept has a strong charismatic personality as originator and sustained leader. The supporting evidence is almost entirely anecdotal. The syndrome is becoming associated with an even more diverse array of maladies, tinted lenses now being offered for relief of problems far removed from reading difficulty. The procedure for determining the specific tint has not been divulged and remains a type of "trade secret." Finally, a financially rewarding franchise activity is at the basis of the Irlen Institute activity.

Another well-researched study concludes:

In a double-blind study of dyslexic children, tinted lens therapy was not shown to improve reading ability subjectively or objectively.39 Studies claiming the efficacy of these lenses have not held up to scientific review. 12.
Citation 39 is Menacker SJ, Breton ME, Breton ML, et al: Do tinted lenses improve the reading performance of dyslexic children? Arch Ophthalmol 111:213-218, 1993.
Citation 12 is Evans BJW, Drasdo N: Tinted lenses and related therapies for leaning disabilities - a review. Ophthal Physiol Opt 11: 206-217, 1991.

The Learning Disabilities Resource community has a good, up-to-date summary on all the Irlen research.

Not only are some findings less meaningful than they first appear, many are questionable on methodological grounds. There continue to be serious methodological concerns with most of the studies claiming support for Irlen lenses. Biased sample selection, small sample size, and lack of proper control procedures are just a few of the more common limitations. Finally, consumers should be aware that many unreported studies show no effects of coloured filters on measures of either reading performance or SSS symptoms.


After a great deal of research, no support could be found for the validity or presence of an actual visual perceptual dysfunction termed "scotopic sensitivity syndrome". Therefore the use of this term is meaningless. Anyone using this term is doing so outside of accepted medical practice.

The symptoms described in "scotopic sensitivity syndrome" can be explained by other, conventional, vision anomalies, that can be treated in more conventional ways if correctly diagnosed."


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Helen
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 03:25 PM

Sue exhull,

in my post of 13 Nov 04 - 07:51 AM I gave a link to another thread we had on dyslexia. It has a lot of interesting and useful info as well.

Guest SueB, yes I wear rose-coloured glasses. How did you know? :-)

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: *Laura*
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 12:27 PM

Numbers are my problem. A while ago in a practice (luckily) maths exam I took 2 from 2 and got 1!
going back to what BI said earlier - there IS NO practical use for algebra! It's just so that the maths teachers can laugh at the geography teachers in the staff room becasue they can teach algebra and all the geography teaches do is teach colouring (sorry if there are any geography teachers on here hehe. i didn't like geography).

sorry - this is quite irrelevent!


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: sue exhull
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 11:49 AM

Hi Thanks for replying, katie has a condition called Micropthalmia, where the eye stopped developing, she is blind in that eye and it is very small ,has any heard of it? I will certainly ask about the S.S.S. when we go to specialist again Thankyou. she is supposed to wear a 'false eye' but doesnt bother, her attitude is if people cant deal with the way she looks thats their fault,not hers :) I really am very proud of her, but I am hoping she is going to give the false eye another go, as now she is getting older I think it will give her more confidence, but if she doesnt thats fine too, she is used to people staring nudging etc, (however I am not, and still blow my top now and then, I hate it when they stare, and over the years have said alsorts of unpleasant things to them, but so what !!!)I dont blame them for taking a second look because she is differnt, but not to stare opened mouthed and nudge friends etc to look too grrrrrrrrrrrr ) I plan to read all your comments on dyslexia tonight so hopefully I will pick up a few more tips. Thank you again bye for now sue


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 10:54 AM

Thank you Helen. Sue, please consider her reply to say what I would have tried to say, only much better.

..xx..e


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Helen
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 07:20 AM

Hi Sue exhull,

The lenses don't have anything to do with 3D sight. It is simply, as Liz said earlier, that the tinted lenses cut the glare on the paper and reduce the extreme contrast of black print on white paper. It's like having everything printed on lightly tinted paper instead of stark black on white.

Your daughter may not have Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome but in my opinion it is worth investigating all avenues. The lenses are called Irlen Lenses, so you may be able to find out from your local optometrists, or doctors, eye specialists or education specialists.

SueB, I didn't see anger in your earlier posting, but you gave the impression of a blanket dismissal of a broad range of scientific studies which are investigating interventions which may help to ease the problem of dyslexia. Every dyslexic person is different, so it is impossible to generalise about dyslexia and dyslexics based on the experiences and capabilities of one person. Some things work for some people, and not for others. That doesn't mean that all of the interventions are pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo or hogwash.   

There are probably a range of causes of dyslexia and a range of symptoms. Unless you have done some rigorous scientific, experimental studies of interventions for dyslexia then it would be difficult to pass judgement on what works and what doesn't. Even the studies that have been done would not have been able to test all of the different manifestations of dyslexia.

In telling my own experiences about the Irlen lenses I was trying to provide some anecdotal evidence of what happened with me and why I think it works - and I mean works as a way of easing a problem which makes reading difficult for me, and which compounds the problem of dyslexia. I never claimed that it cures dyslexia. I simply said that it makes reading easier, and therefore alleviates one of the difficulties which I have with reading. I never said it stopped the left-right & up-down reversals of letters, only that it makes reading more comfortable and relieves the strain on my eyes as well.

You can choose the interventions which you believe are best for your child, but you cannot dismiss things which work for other people just because you have decided that it doesn't work in your child's specific case.

As for the label of "passive-aggressive": I think that you are starting to look for a fight that isn't there. We are discussing this issue objectively and not emotively. We are not being overtly OR covertly aggressive.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: sue exhull
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 04:27 AM

Hello   can anyone tell me more about the coloured lenses? I dont think they would work for my daughter who was finally diagnosed dyslexic/dyspraxic 4 years ago(she is 15 now) as she only has one eye so doesnt have 3d sight. I havent read all your info. yet but hopefully will get thru it tonight The doctors/specialists in Hull were less than helpful e.g for years I told them I thought Katie had far more serious problems than they realised,but because she had the eye prob and heart problems(operated on when 5) they had me down for some sort of nutter!!! finally 3 years ago someone listened and did a MRI scan to find she had hydrocephalus, Since moving to Cambridgeshire 18 month ago Ive found the doctors a lot more helpful,but its too late to compensate educationally now! It makes me so mad to think if they had done a MRI years ago, something could have maybe been done to help her more. Any advice would be much appreciated thanks   sue


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 02:50 AM

Ellenpoly - I've gone back and reread all my posts to this thread. Can't find anger in any of them.   Maybe you're upset because of my "that's the kind of pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo I'm talking about" remark? Now that's the kind of thing that can get on my nerves, that passive-aggressive stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Helen
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 02:40 AM

hanks for the clarification, SueB. You said: "Visual problems are rarely responsible for learning difficulties." You're right, in my opinion. It is not that he visual problem is responsible for the dyslexia. But it is responsible for making reading more difficult. I still stick to what I said earlier in response to Mark Cohen's quoted definition of dyslexia.

"I still see dyslexia as the same. The letter reversals are not a vision problem, they are the way the brain processes what is seen. The image is the same but my brain puts a different spin on the image and chops and changes that spin - admittedly in a fairly predictable manner, e.g. left-right reversals or up-down reversals."

I do however have an associated vision problem, SSS, which exacerbates the problems I have with dyslexia and which have been found to occur in a reasonable percentage of dyslexics. It doesn't help at all to have the print jiggling about, "shimmying like my sister Kate" (there that put the musical reference back into this thread   :-)    ) and making it hard to keep track of which word I am reading and which line of text I was up to.   When you add the jiggling print problem to the dyslexia problem I sometimes wonder how I managed to read at all.

The answer is motivation. My family are great lovers of reading and I am too. That helped a lot. Also my family and my infants school teachers were all very loving and supportive of my difficulties even though there was no scientific name for what I was experiencing back in the early 60's as far as I know. I was never diagnosed with dyslexia and only discovered that there was a name for my problems when I read British actress, Susan Hampshire's book about her own difficulties.   That was in the mid '80's, i.e when I was in my mid '30's and still studying part time while working full time as a librarian.

So, I can only be extremely grateful for the coloured lenses because they have cut my difficulties down to a manageable level, and allowed me to work more effectively on my dyslexia.

Also, I wouldn't discount the exercises. I have found that playing computer games has helped me to become more reactive in visual left-right situations. Having to hit the left and right arrow keys in a fast, yet calculated sequence seems to have trained my brain into recognising left and right a bit more quickly, although if someone verbally instructed me to use my left hand or turn left I would still have to do the mental gymnastics to make sure I was doing it correctly.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 02:28 AM

Thanks, dianavan, but I think you may have misunderstood me. I'm not searching for answers, because I think I've found them - and my daughter is now advancing in leaps and bounds, which is a great relief to both of us. In the process of finding these answers, I did a lot of research, so I'm pretty well versed in the various approaches that were mentioned below, some of which are highly flawed, at best.

If you're trying to help somebody with dyslexia, you cannot do better than to read Overcoming Dyslexia, by Sally Shaywitz, and follow the advice she gives. When you're dealing with dyslexia, you need a proven, evidence-based, science-based approach, not rose-colored glasses and juggling while standing on one leg. You need, at the very least, to understand what Mark Cohen was trying to get across in his post, about what dyslexia is and isn't, and about phonemes.

I appreciate the words of encouragement, though. I am fortunate to be able to homeschool my own kids - I'm sure that it must be doubly frustrating for parents and kids who rely on overworked underpaid schoolteachers to diagnose and deal with the problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 02:26 AM

From the National Literacy Trust in the UK


http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/Database/dysresearch.html


I thought it was fascinating how many different articles there were posted by those trying to examine Dyslexia from as many angles as possible.

As I said in my previous posts, I am not directly involved in this, having no family that I know with Dyslexia, but I have taught children who are dealing with it, and I certainly have sympathy for anyone who is attempting to find a way to help their kids, or their friends/family.

SueB, I can hear your anger in your posts, and if I've in any way been the cause of that, I again apologize. It's about trying to sift through all that's out there on the subject, which in itself, must be both daunting and frustrating.

Like others here, I can only wish you luck in your endevours.

..xx..e


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: dianavan
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 01:00 AM

Sue B. - The medical profession has been referring children with learning disabilities to the educational professionals for a long time. In fact, I have never heard of a doctor curing anyone of learning disabilities. If they don't know how to cure it, its passed to the education professionals. Trouble is, we know that early intervention and small group instruction can and does help many children learn. Unfortunately, cuts to education mean cuts to most remedial programs.

You said, "Visual problems are rarely responsible for learning difficulties." Maybe it means visual accuity is rarely responsible. That means, the patients eyes are OK. There are, however, many problems associated with the transfer of visual information to the brain. Doesn't mean the patient can't see. There may also be problems with the way information is passed from the ear to the brain. That doesn't mean the patient can't hear.

The central nervous system is very complicated and it may not be a problem originating in the brain but in any of the nerve connections leading to the brain.

A psycho-educational assessment will be able to determine your child's strengths and weaknesses. A teacher can then teach according to your child's strengths. Don't give up. Work with the teacher. Do what you can do and support the extra effort that is required of him/her. There is no magical cure.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 12:15 AM

I went back to the two links given by Ellenpoly. The first was an article that appeared in the New Scientist two years ago, describing (not endorsing) a study in which children who appeared to be dyslexic were divided into two groups: one half did exercises for six months and the other half didn't. They were evaluated after six months and the result was that of the group who did the exercises, fewer than 25% had experienced improvement in their reading skills. We are not told in the article how many of the children who did not do the exercises experienced improvement in their reading skills. We are also not told in the article that there is nothing new about these exercises - but I have a book on my shelves called The Gift of Dyslexia first published in 1994 - ten years ago - which uses the same and similar exercises, and the author had been using them at his Dyslexia Correction Center since 1982. The New Scientist is correct in labeling this approach controversial - but it's not controversial because it's new, or radical, or offers a challenge to conventional wisdom, but because it's still pulling people in even though it's based on a theory which has been proven to be incorrect.

Almost all of the remedial reading therapies targeted at dyslexics can and will boast of some success, because in addition to their own gimmick, they also feature one-on-one tutoring, and almost everyone can benefit from one-on-one tutoring.

The other link that Ellenpoly put up took me to a google page on the subject of coloured lenses. I picked two at random. The first describes them as quackery (this piece quotes several well-researched studies)
and the second takes me to the American Academy of Pediatrics clinical report on the subject of Learning Disabilities, Dyslexia and Vision. Here is what they say in a nutshell: "Learning disabilities are common conditions in pediatric patients. The etiology of these difficulties is multifactorial, reflecting genetic influences and abnormalities of brain structure and function. Early recognition and referral to qualified educational professionals is critical for the best possible outcome. Visual problems are rarely responsible for learning difficulties. No scientific evidence exists for the efficacy of eye exercises ("vision therapy") or the use of special tinted lenses in the remediation of these complex pediatric developmental and neurologic conditions." It goes into greater detail, but that's the abstract.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Helen
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 10:56 PM

Ellenpoly, I'll try to find the books by Donna Williams. They sound interesting.

Liz,

I have adjusted the background colour on my computer to the same tint as my lenses - which is a light maroon tint. It helps a lot. Part of the Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome evaluation, after confirming that that is the problem, is identifying the best colour for the individual.   Some people work better with blue, some with other colours so ivory tinted paper isn't the only option but it would definitely help. I've always liked secondhand books, and I think one of the reasons is that often the paper has gone a brownish tint and they are easy to read.

At the SSS evaluation as soon as I looked through the light maroon tint at the sample reading text I went "Ohhhh!!!" so the doc knew that that was the most likely choice for me. He tried out the other tints but I came back to the one that had made me react so pleasantly. It was like "At last! Is this what I have been waiting for? Is this how it is for other people all the time?" It was like coming out of a long, weary, dark tunnel into daylight.

The way I found out about the lenses was when one of my students told me that she needed tinted paper for her exams and as we were talking she mentioned that she also had dyslexia. When I said that I do too she handed me her blue tinted glasses and said, "Try these".

I put them on and tried to read the paper in my hand and said "Ohhhh!!!" I had no idea what they did or why they were supposed to work. I didn't want to take them off. I definitely didn't want to hand them back to her. They kind of stuck to my fingers and I had to force myself to give them back. She told me about the doctor at the uni and I made an appointment as soon as possible after that. Never looked back.

By the way, Liz, I also have the problem with remembering numbers. similar problem with remembering words but numbers go in one ear and out the other, unless I make a logical pattern of them to remember them, e.g. 1248 = 1, 1x2=2, 2x2=4, 4x2=8.   Luckily my pin no. for my bank account forms a pattern on the keypad too so I just have to remember the starting point and the rest is easy.    There are some words I always get the wrong way around. Suspicious and superstitious, Danny and Andy, etc.

One of my uni lecturers (#$%&* cow!) totally humiliated me in front of my whole class when I had to do a presentation for my final assessment for an MBA subject. She said I got the prize for using my hands the most while talking but if I don't use my hands I can't get at the right words sometimes. If I can describe the concept in the air in front of me I can track my brain through its pathways to find the right word. It's like there is a filing room with lots of filing cabinets in the left side of my brain and I have to go from the visual/conceptual right brain through into that room and then find the right filing cabinet and the right drawer to pull out the right "label" for what I am thinking.

When you think about it the words assigned to objects and concepts are all arbitrarily assigned. The word "left" and the word "right" were just agreed upon yonks ago to mean the concept of left and right. For me, I have to go from visualising the concept to finding that agreed upon label.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 06:26 PM

Coloured lenses can help some, but the son of my friend Marilyn, gets by very well if stuff is printed on ivory paper. It seems the contrast between black print and white paper is what makes the letters dance. Printing stuff onto cream or ivory coloured paper makes it a lot easier on the eyes. The RNIB (Royal National Institute for the Blind) also recommend using cream or ivory coloured paper for those with vision problems.

Marilyns' son was doing poorly at school. They tested his eyes and found that his eyesight was not the problem. Then they gave him various projects to read. The one he had least difficulty with was printed on ivory paper. Since then, his school has swapped to an unbleached paper for copying, and his grades have improved a whole lot.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: vectis
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 04:26 PM

The coloured lenses do help a minority of dyslexics. I am sure that the exercises will help some of those who are able to afford them, especially younger people. There is no magic cure for dyslexia their brains are wired up differently to the average brain.

On the plus side there is generally an increased ability to see the whole picture three dimensionally. This is why one American architect won't employ an architect unless s/he is dyslexic. He reckons that they don't forget something vital like how to get waste out of a building. He employs a clerical team to check spellings and maths.

Some of the wealthiest and most creative people in the world are dyslexic. They are the ones who make the most of the bonuses of the condition.

No I'm not dyslexic but I've taught them for the last decade or so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 11:02 AM

This subject of the coloured lenses reminded me of the books I read by Donna Williams, an autistic woman who wrote "Nobody Nowhere" and "Somebody Somewhere", and later "Like Colour to the Blind".

I remember this was the first time I'd read about the use of coloured lenses, in this case by a woman dealing with several disabilties, who very eloquently describes what it was like for her to put on these lenses for the first time.

Again, I don't know if this is of any interest to anyone on this thread, but I do think there is enough information from enough different sources not to completely discount it as an effective tool for SOME people.

I still feel badly that I might have offered website information which is not accurate or in any way worth exploring, but now that I've read what Helen posted, and found those books again by Donna Williams, at least I think I wasn't completely off base with feeling this might be of interest and possible value.

..xx..e


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Helen
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 06:05 AM

I use the coloured lenses. I am 49 years old, with a lot of university study behind me and a lot of reading as my main hobby.

I only found out about the lenses a few years ago. Meanwhile I have spent most of my life, i.e. until then, coping with a problem that I didn't even realise does not affect most people. It got worse still as my eyesight started deteriorating with age. In 1995 I spent an extremely miserable half year working in the worst possible light conditions - no daylight, only undiffused fluorescent lights, and a very low ceiling which placed the lights very close to our heads. I had terrible headaches and nausea while working there and had to keep going outside for doses of daylight just so that I could keep working.

When I found out about Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome it made perfect sense to me because I had suffered all my life from trying to focus on the print which jiggles around on the page and which has a little shadow/halo around each letter.

The issue which dianavan mentioned about glare while reading is exactly what the lenses help to correct. By using tinted lenses, and also by using tinted paper the contrast between the black print and the white page is reduced thereby reducing the glare and making it easier to pin the letters down. It makes it easier to pin down the line of text I am reading instead of jumping around from one line to the next and back again.

SueB, if you don't know about the scientific credentials of the New Scientist magazine, then I suggest you investigate it a little more before using the scattergun approach to labelling the article which Ellenpoly referred to as "pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo" and "outdated hogwash". The New Scientist publishes short articles about the latest scientific experiments and theories. They are all presumably reputable scientists and not your average backyard quack.

It is not exactly scientific to label it as mumbo jumbo and hogwash unless you show us your own in depth analysis on how you arrived at that conclusion.

You are correct to say that the lenses make reading easier - not more "comfortable" but easier. Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome is often but not always associated with dyslexia - I'm not sure how or why - so if it makes reading easier, i.e. it helps to ease one of the associated problems which is an obstacle to reading then why not use it. It costs very little to get the evaluation, and then I just have to pay for the coloured overlays when I get a new set of reading glasses. The evaluation and the initial overlays were done for me by Professor Greg Robinson who is associated with our local university whose practice is situated within the Special Education unit.

Not all dyslexics have SSS but the ones who do can ease their problems by using the lenses. Maybe your child doesn't have SSS and doesn't need the Irlen lenses. Maybe it would be worthwhile to get the evaluation done to find out for sure. Would you be happy finding out later that your child could have been helped earlier by using the lenses?

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: dianavan
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 05:06 AM

Ellenpoly - I have heard about the coloured lenses. I don't know anyone who has actually tried it.

One thing I learned that has helped my students who have a visual perception error is to cut down on the glare. Laminated materials produce a glare which causes the print to appear to move around on the page. I now only use plain paper, the less glare, the better.

Besides that, it takes 60 years for that plastic to break down in the environment. Good for the environment, good for my students!

d


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 02:30 AM

SueB, I have to bow to your greater knowledge on this subject, though I find it hard to discount all that I've seen and read. But you have been in the thick of it, and if you are working from a place of having actually followed through on seeing if these therapies work, and are convinced that they don't I would be the last person in the world to argue with you.

But I'm still a little surprised, especially about the coloured lenses, as I've read and talked with people who have known of this and known of those who it has helped.

But I am really out of my depths on this one, and want only to encourage people to find help, from whatever source will work for them. If you are aware of better sources, I'm happy to learn about them.

Again, I apologise for my ignorance.

.x..e


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: LadyJean
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 02:01 AM

I have a learning disability.
In 1992, my mother was dying of cancer. She wanted to die at home, which meant I would be staying home and looking after her. I don't think it was what either of us really wanted. But it was what was best.
I don't know who told the hospital social worker that I was LD, but she got the idea I couldn't read, and decided mother should spend her last days in a nursing home. After all I couldn't read a phone book, or read the pill schedule.
I do just fine with the phone book, thank you. I read the pill schedule for the first couple of weeks, until I had it memorized. My only problem was that I couldn't pronounce the name of the stool softener. Neither could the visiting nurse, or the pharmacist. We all called them the big, brown, pills. It was a useful memonic.
I had one of Patrick O'Brian's books in my lap when the social worker talked to me. I'd still like to know what she thought I was doing with it. (I've read all 22 of the Aubrey/Maturin novels, and "The Golden Ocean".)
In high school, I delt with a youth pastor who decided I was retarded. It wouldn't have been quite so bad if he hadn't also decided that the best way to communicate with me was by shouting in my ear.
Again, I was going to a very good prep school, with a tough curriculum. I wonder what I thought I was doing there?
I am reluctant to tell people that I am L.D. because they decide, immediately, that I am either retarded, illiterate, or insane. I avoid anyone with a background in education or psychology, because they know all about my disability, and don't bother to learn anything about me.
Perhaps other people could d have experiences like mine and not become defensive. I'm a bit brittle on the subject, I suppose. But every now and again, my sister forgets herself and calls me a a spaz.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 12:54 PM

That's just the kind of pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo I'm talking about, Ellenpolly. Thanks to MRI's and new brain imaging techniques, we can see precisely what's going on in the brain when someone is reading, and can compare the differences in the brain activity between a fluent reader and a poor reader. The "juggling and balance" approach is based on the theory that dyslexics have a less permeable corpus callosum which impairs right brain-left brain interaction but can be somehow made more permeable by "brain gym" types of activity, like cross-crawling and juggling. Outdated hogwash, but it's still out there being pushed on the credulous, along with colored overlays, which may make reading more "comfortable" but have absolutely no effect on how and where the neurons are firing in your brain.


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