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Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions

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John Golightly 04 Nov 04 - 06:15 AM
John Golightly 04 Nov 04 - 06:27 AM
GUEST,not THAT Steve of Sidmouth 05 Nov 04 - 09:07 AM
The Barden of England 06 Nov 04 - 08:05 AM
Tony Day 06 Nov 04 - 09:32 AM
*Laura* 06 Nov 04 - 01:47 PM
John Golightly 07 Nov 04 - 06:58 AM
fiddler 07 Nov 04 - 07:14 AM
GUEST,Lizzie in Sidmouth! 07 Nov 04 - 08:18 AM
GUEST,Joe Richards from London 07 Nov 04 - 03:57 PM
steve_harris 07 Nov 04 - 10:32 PM
GUEST,Lizzie in Sidmouth 08 Nov 04 - 06:55 AM
GUEST,Spot the Dog 08 Nov 04 - 12:14 PM
GUEST,Fritz The Cat 08 Nov 04 - 12:31 PM
GUEST,rover the tiger 08 Nov 04 - 04:04 PM
Adrianl 08 Nov 04 - 04:50 PM
Herga Kitty 08 Nov 04 - 06:47 PM
GUEST,Fritz The Cat 08 Nov 04 - 08:37 PM
GUEST,rover the tiger 09 Nov 04 - 03:10 AM
greg stephens 09 Nov 04 - 03:51 AM
GUEST,ROVER THE TIGER 09 Nov 04 - 06:57 AM
GUEST,would rather remain nameless 09 Nov 04 - 07:33 AM
MBSLynne 09 Nov 04 - 08:05 AM
GUEST,Lizzie in Sidmouth 09 Nov 04 - 08:06 AM
GUEST,rover the tiger 09 Nov 04 - 08:11 AM
*Laura* 09 Nov 04 - 03:41 PM
GUEST,Another GUEST 09 Nov 04 - 04:59 PM
John Golightly 09 Nov 04 - 05:35 PM
GUEST,Another GUEST 09 Nov 04 - 08:04 PM
rhyzla 11 Nov 04 - 12:23 PM
Steve in Sidmouth 11 Nov 04 - 05:54 PM
John Routledge 11 Nov 04 - 06:10 PM
GUEST,Another Festival Organiser 11 Nov 04 - 10:26 PM
John Golightly 12 Nov 04 - 04:54 AM
Folkie 12 Nov 04 - 08:16 AM
GUEST,Spot the Dog 12 Nov 04 - 11:42 AM
GUEST,Guest up North 12 Nov 04 - 12:04 PM
*Laura* 12 Nov 04 - 05:10 PM
steve_harris 12 Nov 04 - 08:40 PM
Snuffy 13 Nov 04 - 06:12 AM
BretonCap 13 Nov 04 - 07:37 AM
Adrianl 14 Nov 04 - 08:54 AM
John Routledge 14 Nov 04 - 09:38 AM
Folkiedave 14 Nov 04 - 11:05 AM
Herga Kitty 14 Nov 04 - 01:12 PM
GUEST,News from Telford 15 Nov 04 - 09:10 AM
Snuffy 15 Nov 04 - 09:45 AM
greg stephens 15 Nov 04 - 10:02 AM
Steve in Sidmouth 15 Nov 04 - 10:14 AM
Steve in Sidmouth 15 Nov 04 - 10:23 AM
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Subject: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: John Golightly
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 06:15 AM

This thread is for those who wish to express opinions, positive or negative, about Sidmouth 2005 and beyond.

If you have a problem with the way things are going, or which individuals is/are involved in helping them go that way, or if you want to discuss past history or high-level strategic issues, or ask rhetorical questions, then this is the place.

It is one of 2 threads which are together a continuation of
51st Sidmouth festival
- so that's where to look for earlier postings.

As for the other continuation thread - if you have news, straight questions, suggestions, or something positive/constructive/forward-looking to say, then please go instead to "Sidmouth 2005+ - news, info & support"



John Golightly


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: John Golightly
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 06:27 AM

... and here's the clickthingy for the other thread

Sidmouth 2005+ - news, info & support


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,not THAT Steve of Sidmouth
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 09:07 AM

As one of the "2 dozen" I sometimes wonder if people want this event or not. Stop having a go at Stuart Hughes, he's not trying to take over, merely organising something in the arena when no one else would put their head above the parapet & offering to put any profit into Sidmouth 2006.

The rest of us are just trying to get SOMETHING happening. It WILL be different from what you've seen before (at the meeting someone likened it to Edinburgh Fringe where each venue & event is separate under an overall umbrella).

We WONT GET IT RIGHT FIRST TIME!!

But for goodness sake give us some credit for trying. We are not doing it for our own egos or pockets, but for YOU to come & enjoy & hopefully keep the thread going for the future.

To the other Steve of Sidmouth thank you for no longer taking my name in vain.

NOW LET'S JUST GET ON WITH IT!!


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: The Barden of England
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 08:05 AM

Hi GUEST,not THAT Steve of Sidmouth..

I won't miss Sidmouth next year. It may not be the same, but as ever it will still be Sidmouth. What more could any of us want?


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Tony Day
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 09:32 AM

Zis messaage is for Greg Stephens on zee other thread, from Clouseau of zee yard (zee Anchor back yard).

Zees tribes of pseudonymous and anonymous "families", clog dancers, etc who say they eez not coming next year are nothing to worry about - zey ees all the same homme peculiare, who 'as is own reasons for wanting 2005 to fail. It is 'im who will fail!!

Clouseau, he know who zis man is - and you can work it out too.

Clouseau.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: *Laura*
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 01:47 PM

Wouldn't it make more sense to not go next year? Then the town would realise what it was missing and would probably offer some finance for '06?
Much as I love Sidmouth and don't want it to finish - I can see the sense in this.

xLx


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: John Golightly
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 06:58 AM

Good point - and you're not the first to have said this, by any means.

I think the feeling generally is that

1) It would be impossible to persuade everyone to unite in such a view
2) An active boycott of Sidmouth would be seen by many as a destructive/retaliatory act & so not good for PR
3) Given that people will turn up anyway - it's much better to do our best to put some structure into the event. If we don't we risk driving a deeper wedge between Town & Festival

Just my view...

John


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: fiddler
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 07:14 AM

Bored as I am getting of all this Sidmouth wrangling I sadly must agree with John and Laura!

Both are 100% right!

Tahts all I can say!


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Lizzie in Sidmouth!
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 08:18 AM

How's about coming to Sidmouth, having THE MOST FANTASTIC TIME and doing your shopping in Lyme Regis!!! :-) :-)

Don't let all the Dancers and Folk Singers down! I just get SO angry when I hear all this stunning talent in the Folk World, who are all treated like second class citizens, never seen on our TV's or heard on our Radios. We, the public, are the only ones who can change this crazy state of affairs!

So support the people who REALLY matter, the musicians and the dancers! Think of all the young people out there who might just 'fall into the Folk world' as my kids have done, through coming to Sidmouth!
Pass the music and the dancing on, it's all beginning to take off big time. Help to plant more seeds, don't dig them up!

Let the Miseries be Miserable and the Oldies be Old!

And I'm going to wrap the entire EDDC building in Soundproof Bubble Wrap so they can only look out of their windows and watch us all, won't be able to hear a THING!! It's only fair penance for pulling out the money! :-) :-)

Let's just all put our hands above our heads and whirl around to the music and to hell with all the complainers.

And what about 2006 and the money 2005 will raise towards it? This Breathtaking Festival has to continue for years and years and it needs all the help it can get!

It needs YOU! So please don't let all the performers down! They have a hard enough struggle as it is!!

Come to Sidmouth and spend your money at The Festival!

Enjoy....Don't Destroy!

Lizzie :-)



PS I'm a Sidmouth resident and I just can't WAIT till you all get here!


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Joe Richards from London
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 03:57 PM

I write in support of Laura (above). At last someone is speaking sense. A boycott of Sidmouth in 2005 is probably the only way of forcing the town to see sense and offer some finance for a fully revived festival in 2006. While I believe GUEST Lizzie and GUEST Steve and others are well-intentioned in trying to keep the festival afloat in 2005 they are probably doing more harm than good so far as the long-term future of the festival is concerned.

As for the increasingly silly postings from someone calling themselves Tony Day or Clouseau can we please start a new thread for people who cannot speak proper English or French.

Let's keep this thread for serious postings on Sidmouth's future then maybe more new people will think it worth expressing their views.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: steve_harris
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 10:32 PM

"Then the town would realise what it was missing and would probably offer some finance for '06?"

I am quite sure that nearly all the businesses in the town have a clear and accurate view of the affect of the festival on their profits. They know a lot better than you, I or Steve Heap what the arithmetic is for their business.

Boycott 05 and none of them will have any finamcial surpises.

Anyway, the best future for the festival is to make 05 as big and good as possible. Because people who take 05 off - or hear it wasn't very good, may never come back.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Lizzie in Sidmouth
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 06:55 AM

For Joe Richards, above..........

Sidmouth 2005 is going towards helping Sidmouth 2006 and I certainly want to see Sidmouth 2006 so that's why I'll be supporting Sidmouth 2005! (Gosh, that sounds a bit confusing, but I hope you understand it!)

Support the musicians and the dancers first and foremost and the atmosphere which makes Sidmouth so special!

Good to have this separate thread though for everyone's differing opinions!

Lizzie


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Spot the Dog
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 12:14 PM

There is an awful chance that by running a nearly festival you will shut Sidmouth down with a whimper rather than letting it go after it's 50th with a bang.

Spot


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Fritz The Cat
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 12:31 PM

Well said Spot. A nearly festival is worse than no festival at all. Leave Mr. Hughes to run his Caribbean Night and leave those of us who love traditional folk music to go elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,rover the tiger
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:04 PM

Well said SPOT AND Fritz let them carry on with the Carribean Night and let the folkies who dont buy season tickets carry on with there little dream of a fantastic fringe festival 2005.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Adrianl
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:50 PM

Well Spot,rover, tiger whoever you are I do buy a season ticket just as those who are putting a lot of effort into organising a 2005 event do. If you don't want to go don't but don't whinge about those who will. Its a nice place I'll take the tent have a few beers meet some friends go to the Middle Bar, have a dance if any is going sit on the seafront and enjoy myself.

Adrian


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 06:47 PM

It's complete rubbish to say that the festival will be better off in 2006 if there isn't a festival in 2005.

Sidmouth Town Council or even EDDC couldn't possibly finance a festival on the same scale that Mrs Casey did, and it's barking mad to suggest that boycotting the festival in 2005 will somehow magically produce adequate funding for 2006 and beyond.

But there will be a good festival next year, because a lot of people, including Tony Day, are working to make sure there will be.

What makes Sidmouth special, is Sidmouth, which is why the people who love Sidmouth will be there next 29 July and have a good time.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Fritz The Cat
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 08:37 PM

Ummm, those above who talk about buying season tickets for 2005 should read today's Press Release where I think you will find it says no season tickets will be available in 2005.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,rover the tiger
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 03:10 AM

What i meant is why the old Sidmouth died was due to the fact so many people never bought a season ticket.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 03:51 AM

Folk whining doesnt half drag you down sometimes. Come to Sidmouth if you want to, great. If you dont want to, just shut up and dont come.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,ROVER THE TIGER
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 06:57 AM

This thread says "opinions" so thats what i am doing saying how a lot of people think but havent got the guts to come out with it,so dont read this thread Greg.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,would rather remain nameless
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 07:33 AM

something I've been confused about for a while - people on this forum and elsewhere keep saying things like 'the reason Mrs Casey stopped running the festival was because they weren't making enough money/because people didn't buy season tickets/because they couldn't actually afford to run festival of that scale' etc etc (ok so I'm paraphrasing and have probably missed some points)

I thought Mrs Casey were perfectly clear at the time - they said they could not afford to underwrite the festival in case of another bad weather year. The implication I would assume is that they were ok with the year to year running costs of the festival, just didn't make sufficient profit to build a disaster fund... and if they had made sufficient profits to build a proper disaster fund no doubt there would have been all the whingers saying 'we're not getting value for money, where are all the profits going?'.

If we assume that this was true and that had disaster funds been made available from elsewhere Mrs Casey would have continued to run the festival, should the debate about future festivals not also focus on 'what happens when the weather is bad'? Sounds to me like there is enough of a market for the festival as it was for it to be able to build up to a similar sized event again once a new organisation has had time to bed in, but that if that is what happens they'll be stuck in the same position again as soon as the weather turns bad. Haven't heard anybody mention this aspect for a while, it just all seems to have dissolved into 'well I'm not going because it'll be crap...' or 'well I am going and how dare you be so negative...' etc etc ad nauseum.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: MBSLynne
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 08:05 AM

Y.... I mean Guest, it's nothing to do with season ticket sales. Get a life.

Lynne


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Lizzie in Sidmouth
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 08:06 AM

Sorry, am having trouble 'logging on' hence being a constant GUEST! Anyway....................

Down Rover! Down! YOU may think as you do, but I CERTAINLY don't think like you at all! Good to read all sorts of opinions though! That's what this thread IS about!

Now personally, I think it's amazing that people have come forward to offer their help and support for Sidmouth 2005! This is despite all the obstacles which they know they may face, despite all the criticism from people such as yourself, despite all the hurdles they may yet have to go through!

They are brilliant people! They've even managed to continue to carry on through all your various words and disguises!

I think that this is because your words are just making them go from strength to strength! And not only in their attitudes and determination, but also in how we are beginning to view them all!
They all go up in my estimation every day, every time I read your lines!

So, Well Done Rover, perhaps you may end up becoming the Sidmouth 2005 Mascot! Now that WOULD be COOL!! :-)

Hmmmm.....maybe those other 51 weeks a year without this Treasure of a Festival are beginning to get to you! Just think what a state you'll be in by 2006!! :-0 :-0 You may be suffering from Rabies by then Rover....in fact I think you may be beginning to show the first signs of it all ready! Frothing at the mouth, split personality, do you have an aversion to water yet? Why not take a stroll down to the seafront and find out!   

Anyway, I'll stop my "scribbles" for now and leave you to remember the words of Sir John Betjamin..........'Still Sidmouth'

Hooray for that!! :-)

Lizzie

PS....And now folks, it's almost time for another...."When I read all the arguing on this thread, my whole family/village/town/city/ is/are so utterly horrified/mortified/stupefied...that we have to seriously consider whether to come to Sidmouth or not/at all/or even ever again!".....piece!

Criticism should be Constructive, but when the Destructive type comes from mainly one person then I think it's time to stand up and shout about it! But I'm done with my shouting now! Too many other things to think about! Hope it all goes seriously BRILLIANTLY! :-)


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,rover the tiger
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 08:11 AM

Well said hooray for Lizzie at Sidmouth!!!!!!!.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: *Laura*
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 03:41 PM

I only said what I said becasue the town HASN'T offered much financial support has it?
I mean - I don't know the precise details (which I'm sure some of you will be quick to swoop down on and shoot at me or something) but, I thought that the town hadn't offered a lot of support.
Now, if they had a year with no Sidmouth - they'd realise how much they needed it.

(and believe me it's taken until about last week for me to see this - I was all set for going to Sidmouth anyway and to hell with people who said it should end. It's the last thing I want - Sidmouth ending finally, but I have to agree with Spot - if 05 does spell the end of Sidmouth - it'll be a shame it didn't go out with a bang.)

I am in absolute support of Sidmouth 06.
Just to clarify.

xLx


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Another GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 04:59 PM

Well said Laura and GUEST who would rather remain nameless (as indeed do I).

One point to GUEST. He or she is half right in saying Mrs Casey withdrew because of the financial risk if the weather is poor.

Speak to Steve Heap and Mrs Casey as I have done and you will also find they withdrew because they were being messed-around by East devon District Council who were making impossible demands on site issues, staffing issues, licensing issues and insurance issues.

Those issues will surely still have to be faced by whoever attempts to stage events in 2005. As the financial situation will be even worse without the £60,000 Council funds then surely even those of us who want Sidmouth to continue have to ask whether all the heady optimism from Lizzie & Co. will be enough to overcome the real and practical difficulties in staging events without Council funding and with a whole load of expensive licensing demands to fulfill.

Sorry to be a tad negative but "them's me views".


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: John Golightly
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 05:35 PM

No one said it was going to be easy...


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Another GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 08:04 PM

That's true John. I just hope the Council are a tad more helpful than they were to Steve Heap but as they can't be seen to be doing one of their own councillors any favours there's always the risk they will be even stricter in 2005 than in 2004.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: rhyzla
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 12:23 PM

On the other Sidmouth thread (the one offering support) Steve of Sidmouth (Dr Stephen J Wozniak of seered site)mentioned me (Barry Hunt) along with other individuals who are involved with the organising of the 2005 festival!

My main connection is that I am in a band called rhyzome who are booked to play the Arena next August - it's not surprising that I am supportive of everyone who is working positiviely toward a good 2005 festival, but that is my only connection so far!

I am happy for Steve to publish my name on his site, and very happy if he chooses to publicise the band as well .... RHYZOME ...... we need all the publicity we can get!!

My photo is on the website Steve ..... www.rhyzome.co.uk ....help yourself!!


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:54 PM

What primarily concerns me now is that there are many people who appear not to understand that the world has moved on - from the days when Sidmouth had dancing in outlying halls and holidaymakers were happy with a bucket and spade. People now have more choice of which festival to attend and higher expectations when they get there.

The majority of those attending Sidmouth 2003/2004 may not have been drawn primarily by sing-songs in pubs but by the international "spectaculars" and the superb dance sessions and concerts conveniently located near the centre of a unique town. I agree with Lizzie when she mentions dance in the centre of Sidmouth as being a feature so many people come to experience. It was watching the dance sessions in Blackmore Gardens and on Church House Lawn that got me on to a dance floor for the first time in my life. (Thank you, Steve Heap)

If you have the data (and no-one has released any, and especially not EDDC who had a report drawn up by Peter Mason) you can illustrate these things using Venn diagrams and other manifestations of group and set theory. I have suggested as much to DCMS and their library colleagues in another section of SeeRed. For an illustration of their use try http://www.venndiagram.com/toptenvenn.html

Put simply, a festival needs a good overlap between the events on offer and the things that the majority of potential attendees find attractive - especially if attending means a long trip down to deepest Devon. It also needs a healthy proportion of the overlap to be substantially insensitive to weather. This is in effect your guaranteed income, come what may.

I suppose someone may start bleating in Lympstone English (or equally bad French) about negativity, but constructive criticism and rational analysis are the only way forward within any businesslike approach.

Take a simple example - my figures are pulled out of the air but it is the principle that needs illustrating. If you organised 30 pub sessions, MBS, Bedford and the like, and a few storytelling sessions and pub concerts, these might be of keen interest to a total of 500 people, including the folkies who come primarily to spend most of their time (and money) in the Anchor. Remember that in 2004 only around 2500 full season tickets were sold. http://www.seered.co.uk/folk21a.htm

The remaining 20,000 people making between them (in 2003/4) maybe 40,000 visits to individual events might have been interested primarily in dancing (say 800 people and 6000 visits?), the superb international events and the whole 'Sidmouth atmosphere' (say 3,000 people and 20,000 events) and specifically the arena and Ham concerts (say 5,000 tickets sold to people who came primarily just to see Kate Rusby, the Watersons and a few others and who stayed on for a few other things too.)

Take away the international acts, take away the 'star' acts such as Kate Rusby and take away the 'house full' dance sessions in the town (putting them out into half-deserted village and church halls miles away) and you are left with very little in town that is of primary appeal to many (perhaps most) potential attendees. Will many travel 200 miles to see things that are not of primary interest? What if it rains? How does the proposed model stand up? Granted many people will participate in or watch a pub session for the odd half hour but how many are sufficiently interested to class these events as primary interest and a compelling reason to make the trip?

The arena has always been sensitive to weather, less so the marquees and the whole 'in town' experience of which they were a central part. What will be left in town in 2005 if it rains? (This is not negativity, it's called sensitivity analysis.) There will be little on the Esplanade, the pubs will be full of maybe 1000 people in total, there will be (?) no dance marquees in town where you can spend a few happy hours out of the rain (even if you don't want to dance), and the arena may be a soggy mess with perhaps a 1970's act to look forward to in a few hours and maybe nowhere to shelter. Will the large Ham marquee be open to all as shelter with some entertainment? If not, might as well go home? The Ham is not mentioned in the press release of 9 Nov. Has the idea of having a Ham marquee been abandoned?

Most attendees may not be the determined folkies who will cheerfully trudge one and a half miles carrying their rucksacks and children to a distant village hall. Many people on family budgets will need to decide whether to come to Sidmouth or to go to a more guaranteed experience elsewhere. We are not all retired and/or rich folkies who can do the lot if we wish.

The 9 November press release really shows one thing - lack of coordination. EDDC or Sidmouth Town Council could have taken a lead and it would have cost them peanuts. I hope it is not too late to reconsider providing dance marquee(s) in town - the tickets might be selling rather better. There is certainly plenty of time to 'get it right' and full dance marquees are surely a viable cost centre? I retain the view I expressed months ago - it is an appalling mistake to put the social dancing/workshops/ceilidhs out of the town centre. It will put so much of the 'action' of the festival out of public view and it will be hassle enough getting to and from distant campsites, wet children in tow. Granted you might have a ceilidh or two at the Anchor - with many (most) intending dancers stuck out at Sidford for the morning and with no easy way to park in town at lunchtime?

In fact I have not seen anything at all said about parking. It may be an even more crucial part of 2005 than 2004 even if the total numbers attending are much lower - because so many people may come just for one or two acts (Wurzels??) and many may wish to use cars to and from the distant campsites and venues, rather than pay for infrequent buses.

Several people who do not live in East Devon have said to me that they will need to confirm hotel accommodation for 2005 early in the New Year or lose their reservation - so by then there needs to be a very much firmer idea of what they can expect.

Finally, if some people bothered to read http://www.seered.co.uk/folk21.htm we would see less discussion here about Sidmouth traders becoming bankrupt if the festival were to fold. Only a few would suffer badly. By far the largest income streams for the town are independent of the festival. Put simply, most Sidmouth residents couldn't care less about it one way or the other and most Sidmouth shopkeepers couldn't either. It seems a wholly different set-up from Cropready.

Whatever happens in Sidmouth post-2004 there will be a record on SeeRed - if only as a warning to others not to let slip away what took years to build.

For those who missed it on the 'news' thread, photos of the principal 30 or so players in all of this would be welcomed - together with some biography and details of your involvement.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: John Routledge
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:10 PM

Thanks S in S.

What your post highlights is the need to focus on the reality and plan accordingly


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Another Festival Organiser
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 10:26 PM

Steve in Sidmouth has analysed the situation beautifully. I know the people trying to keep the Festival alive are very well-intentioned and I wish them well. I know the difficulties they will face. My fear is that they don't.

Specifically I question whether they know of all the new licensing regulations they will have to abide by. The £15 million public liability insurance that the council will expect. The health & safety requirements. The environmental health requirements. The risk assessments. The emergency planning. The fire regulations. The new SIA security rules. The costs of all the above. Not forgetting the levy they will have to pay the PRS on each and every ticket sold.

If the Press Release means what it says in stating that every organiser will be responsible for their own event then the logistics of dozens of event organisers all having to handle each and every one of the above requirements will be nightmarish.

I rather suspect that the EHOs at EDDC will also have something to say about the prospect of them being expected to licence dozens of individual events instead of one overall event.

Someone said elsewhere on this site that it won't be easy. That is true. It will be extremely difficult. My advice to all involved would be to discuss the practical licensing issues with the appropriate officers at EDDC as soon as possible, certainly before you start confirming artistes or booking halls. Get from them in writing precisely what they will expect from you in terms of risk assessments, insurance, site plans, event management plans etc. etc.

If you can get all this in writing now then it may save you some very nasty surprises later on.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: John Golightly
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 04:54 AM

Thanks - your comments noted.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Folkie
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 08:16 AM

With regard to the comments that people at the fringe events don't buy season tickets, I tried to buy a season ticket and they had sold out. I would very much have liked to have had a season ticket and been able to go to the concerts but as things were I had a great time in the sessions.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Spot the Dog
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:42 AM

Don't you just hate it when you paste an opinion in a thread entitled Sidmouth 2005 Opinions and then get taken to task for not having the correct opinion.

Democracy is fine if we win.

I have run a festival (albeit small) for 20 years and a folk club for 25. I have experience in the fickle nature of crowds etc. I have been a performer at Sidmouth. I offered my opinion. I will not be offering anything to Sidmouth or the new management thereof again. They are apparently ungrateful if it doesn't agree with theirs.

Spot the Dog


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Guest up North
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 12:04 PM


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: *Laura*
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 05:10 PM

This is a sad day.
What everyone wants is to see Simouth up and running again in all it's former glory. This thread is for people to voice their opinions on how best that should happen.
So, children, please!


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: steve_harris
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 08:40 PM

"Remember that in 2004 only around 2500 full season tickets were sold. "

I was told by a steward that 4000 people were entitlled to be at LNE. Oh, some of those could be day ticket holders bur then there's all the under 12s as well.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Snuffy
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:12 AM

Well I've always fought shy of going to Sidmouth, because it seemed to be too big and too commercial, but I hope to be there in 2005 for a more intimate, friendly experience.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: BretonCap
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 07:37 AM

It seems that there is a feeling in this tread that the team working to produce Sidmouth 2005 are not fully aware of what running a festival involves (Insurances licences etc)

I understand that Derek Schofield and Eddie Upton are part of the team and it seems to me that, if anybody is going to know, the likes of these gents will be well up the list.

Yes 2005 will be different but there will be plenty going on so why not support it so that the groundwork can be made for future years?

Dave


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Adrianl
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 08:54 AM

4000-2500=Day + stewards + artists + complimentaries? maybe

Adrian


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: John Routledge
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 09:38 AM

Arithmetic looks fine Adrian.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Folkiedave
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 11:05 AM

I'd say that estimate of season ticket holders is spot on.

To Breton Cap - Eddie Upton is part of the team organising 2006 - I will ask Derek to post on here as to his involvment.

To Snuffy - people were complaining about the size/commercialism certainly way back in the early 70's when it was probably smaller than it is likely to be in 2005!!!

Best regards,

Dave Eyre


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 01:12 PM

Snuffy

Glad to hear you're thinking of joining us for the first week in August in Sidmouth next year!

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,News from Telford
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 09:10 AM

The future of the Sidmouth Festival was discussed by many delegates at the Association of Festival Organisers Conference held in Telford on 13/14 November.

The overwhelming majority agreed that no event worthy of the name 'Sidmouth Festival' was likely to happen in 2005 and any events that did take place would be more likely to harm than help efforts to get a proper Sidmouth Festival reinstated in 2006.

Those with knowledge and experience of the Sidmouth situation suggested that the local council and traders needed to experience the effects of a year with no Festival if they were to be persuaded to properly support a proper Festival again in the future.

There was a very strong view that practical issues relating to insurance/health & safety/council licensing requirements do not appear to have been properly considered at an early enough stage by those claiming that they are organising events in 2005.

The many agents present at the Conference indicated that they were unlikely to accept bookings for their artists from Sidmouth next year as they did not have sufficient confidence that the promised concerts would actually take place.

The general conclusion was that it was best to concentrate efforts on reinstating a proper Sidmouth Festival in 2006 and forget about organising a poor substitute in 2005.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Snuffy
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 09:45 AM

The Guest posting above looks to me like it is NOT a report of the AFO conference, but of an informal gathering of some attendees, who have already made the same points here. And how many are "many delegates"? 250? 80? 12?

It would be interesting to know if:
  1. Sidmouth '05 and/or '06 was officially discussed by Conference at all
  2. Any resolution was passed that in any way resembles "The general conclusion was that it was best to concentrate efforts on reinstating a proper Sidmouth Festival in 2006 and forget about organising a poor substitute in 2005".
  3. Any press release to that effect has been issued


      Or was it just Guest and a few of his mates having a little grumble in the bar and deciding to try to make it sound like AFO speaking ex cathedra?


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 10:02 AM

GUEST: News from Telford's contribution all looks very official and sensible. Rather curious that it isnt signed by an identifiable person or organisation. Can't help feeling we have read contributions in this style under various peseudonyms.
    Suggest ignore.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 10:14 AM

So much then for those of us who have already purchased their £90 dance tickets in the hope of supporting the festival in 2005/2006?.

There are clearly many serious issues still to be addressed. Confidence needs to become established. One way of doing this would be for all those who are on the organising committee(s) or groups or whatever they call themselves to make known exactly what they are doing, with whom and with some statement as to their expertise and experience.

I did suggest a "roll of honour" on my website (or somewhere else if you prefer) with some photos, but I have had one response so far. As for the dance tickets (300 at £90 each) = £27,000, where is the money going if (as has been said) many callers and bands are going to almost give their services for free to support the Sidmouth Ideal?

Hiring village and church halls would cost a few thousand, if that. We need cards on the table and some more transparency. Granted no-one knows yet exactly what they will be doing but a statement of whos whats and wheres and some agreed principles of where the money goes (all of it) would help to take forward the whole idea of a 2005 event helping to support 2006.

If we are not careful the many people who started out with the idea of coming to 2005 (despite that it may not be all that great) to support 2006 will begin to wonder if their loyalty is misplaced.

I have stated on my SeeRed website that it is beginning to look like lots of little people giving what they can and none of the rich people (including some in Sidmouth who have for years made money from the festival) giving anything or much at all.

Mention the Rugby Club, the Cricket Club, the main car park owners, the campsite owner - we need to know how much is being offered 'free' this year as a token of goodwill towards the festival. If none of these people give this year, does Sidmouth deserve a 2006?

How much would marquees cost for Blackmore Gardens for the dances and childrens events - to keep these in the town centre where they belong?

By the way Lizzie, I want it to happen too, but I am more of a realist than you are.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 10:23 AM

Greg Stephens posted : "Can't help feeling we have read contributions in this style under various peseudonyms. Suggest ignore."

Suggest stick head in sand also?

You can't ignore it! Suggest instead find out PDQ from some people who were there (and as many as possible) if it does represent a consensus view from 'outside' as to the perceived prospects for Sidmouth.

If anyone can send me preferably paper (xerox) copy of the articles that have appeared in fRoots and Living Tradition please PM me or email    store1001@hotmail.com

Thank you.


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