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BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!

artbrooks 10 Aug 04 - 10:18 AM
Rapparee 10 Aug 04 - 10:20 AM
Steve Parkes 10 Aug 04 - 10:27 AM
Stilly River Sage 10 Aug 04 - 11:09 AM
Blackcatter 10 Aug 04 - 11:25 AM
CarolC 10 Aug 04 - 11:46 AM
Nerd 10 Aug 04 - 03:25 PM
Nerd 10 Aug 04 - 03:36 PM
Peace 10 Aug 04 - 03:43 PM
Irish sergeant 10 Aug 04 - 03:44 PM
Peace 10 Aug 04 - 03:56 PM
Blackcatter 10 Aug 04 - 03:56 PM
GUEST,Norton1 11 Aug 04 - 01:45 PM
GUEST,Blackcatter 11 Aug 04 - 03:09 PM
Joybell 11 Aug 04 - 07:28 PM
Blackcatter 11 Aug 04 - 11:51 PM
Joybell 12 Aug 04 - 07:08 AM
The Fooles Troupe 12 Aug 04 - 09:29 AM
GUEST,Blackcatter 12 Aug 04 - 04:38 PM
JennyO 12 Aug 04 - 11:43 PM
The Fooles Troupe 13 Aug 04 - 12:37 AM
Peace 13 Aug 04 - 12:42 AM
Blackcatter 13 Aug 04 - 01:38 AM
Peace 13 Aug 04 - 01:44 AM
Joybell 13 Aug 04 - 07:37 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 10:18 AM

The EO on US flag proportions does not mandate 1:1.9-see Section 24 in the link above...oh, heck, here it is again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 10:20 AM

Heck, we didn't have a flagpole at the Library. Being a public building and all, I figgered we should have one. Didn't have any money for it, so I called the local American Legion.

We got the Parks & Recreation department to pour a base for it and the AL made it. I mean, they constructed it, built it out of pipe and such. Up on top, for that brass ball you see -- they stuck a toilet tank float that they'd polished. Time from request to erection of the pole was about three weeks; the Legion donated the first flag, and on Armistice Day we dedicated the thing.

Cost to us: zero (except for a couple of local phone calls and a piece fo ground about 3 x 3 feet). Benefits: we got some support for the Library from a section of the local community nobody thought of before -- a part with some political clout, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 10:27 AM

FWIW, here in England, we recently had a ginormous St George's flag on the side of the old Fort Dunlop building in Birmingham, placed where everyone could see it from the M6 motorway. The reason for this rather un-English outburst of patriotic histrionics (histrionic patriotism?) was the (then) forthcoming soccer World Cup. Motorists flew flags (often more than one) from their cars; taxi drivers were told not to fly them, as it might upset Muslims (duh???), and Muslims of course said they were not offended, in fact many Muslims were flying them too.

I can't understand why people get so worked up about soccer, but they do, and I don't mind at all. But then nobody here tries to force soccer on everyone. You may not be aware, but we Brits have a constition. it's much bigger than your US Constitution, and most people don't know what it says. (It includes things like the monarch can't marry a Roman Caholic, and no-one married to a RC can become monarch. Nothng about an Englishman's home being his castle, and nothing about soccer, AFAIK.)

Dr Johnson said "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." As a true-blue Briton himself, he was denigrating scoundrels, and not dissing patriots. Like every nation, we have a lot to be ashamed of. But there's quite a bit for us -- and you Americans -- to be proud of too. Let's try and remember which is which.

Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 11:09 AM

Rapaire, are you in Pocatello? Can we see your library and flag in this web cam?

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 11:25 AM

Great story Rapaire.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 11:46 AM

Congratulations Bee-dubya-ell, on your possession of what seems to be one of the few unwashed brains between Seattle and New Orleans!

That's rather unfortunate for Bee-dubya-ell, since the rest of his body is quite a bit to the east of what lies between Seattle and New Orleans.

You're not just doing to the flag and the flag is just a physical symbol. Call it idolatry, if you wish, but no one is worshipping the flag in this case.

Then they can just leave out the bit about "pledging allegiance to the flag", and stop having people stand facing the flag with their hand over the left side of their chest. As long as that part is in there, people like me will have problems with it.

How about this... "I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic it serves, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Nerd
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 03:25 PM

Rapaire:

Time from request to erection...was about three weeks

well, those American Legion guys ARE mainly seniors...

Sorry! Couldn't resist!


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Nerd
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 03:36 PM

Well, artbrooks, it does, but it says that the general administrator of a government department can mandate minor adjustments. It does not give that power to the legislature, but keeps it in the executive branch. I don't think adjusting 1.9:1 to 3:2 can be considered a MINOR adjustment, nor do I think the legislature would have the power to mandate it if it WERE plausibly considered minor.

One of the problems is that this EO seems only to apply to actual offices of the government, which schools are not. If it IS extended to schools, it seems from this order that, before allowing other sizes, the secretary of education, or at least someone in the state department of education, would have to authorize the adjustment. Perhaps that has already been done for Florida schools prior to this legislation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Peace
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 03:43 PM

Mark Twain said that "literature is the stuff everybody talks about and nobody reads." Replace literature with law. The edict that people WILL fly a flag and go from there really grates my nuts. A request would have been much better. I teach in a Catholic school. When I was told I WOULD say the Lord's Prayer every day with my class I did not. I said it in my head, because I like the prayer. This is the reason I was sent to the principal's office so ofetn when I was young. Now, I am old, and I still get sent to the principal's office.

And where they make a desert they call it peace. Tacitus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 03:44 PM

While I for one, have no qualms about saying the pledge of Allegience or having a flag in every classroom, I do have huge qualms when people like the pea wits in Florida who feel they have to ram their view of patriotism down the throats of others. i fought to defend the constitution of the United States of America, not some perverted vision of what the right wing reactionaries want the constitution to say. Irish Sergeant (on a rant yet again)


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Peace
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 03:56 PM

Irish Sergeant,

Please allow me to rant along with you. If I am asked politely, I am very easy to get along with. As soon as I am ordered to do things, my first response tends to be along the lines of "And who the fu#k are YOU?" That has got me in trouble since I was in grade 2. I am now 56 years old and I still feel the same way. They tried to beat it out of me and it didn't work. I had three teachers over the years who realized all they had to do was ask politely. I have had some excellent principals too. They always asked and they usually got. The ones who told me that I would do also got. But the two different types of principals didn't 'got' the same thing. This "Thou shalt" crap is too heavy handed. Rant over.

PS I do not at all mind facing the flag of my country, and I would not think of staying seated while the national anthem is played. But when I am ordered to do it, I tend to do it only in my mind and look at the flag from the corner of my eye. I guess it's in the way a thing is said. Rant over again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 03:56 PM

Rant away I.S.!

Once again:

Liberals want to preserve people's rights and allow they the ability to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.

Conservatives want to restrict those rights they dislike and force upon everyone those they like.

It doesn't matter if you're Democrat, Republican, Green, Socialist, Libertarian or whatever. If you work to restrict my right to L, L, & PoH, I will fight you tooth and nail.

Are there somethings that should be restricted? Sure, the young, the mentally challenged and convicted felons should not have all the rights of the rest of the people since they may/do not have the capacity to make correct descisions about their and other people's safety. Other items that are so completely dangerous (such as bombs, WMD, tanks, etc should be off limits too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: GUEST,Norton1
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:45 PM

The VFW, American Legion, Marine Corps League, Vietnam Veterans of America, and about any other veterans service organization I know of will do the same thing, as what happened on Pocatello's campus, for any space for free. Each year these groups donate millions of dollars worth of time, and money, into civic projects.

And they force no one to do anything. Just a bunch of us old guys attempting to keep the symbol of our country aloft. I don't think we condemn any of you for your belief nor do we ask that you participate. It's our social donation in the name of those we believe fell for our freedoms. And we don't even ask that you agree with that.

And yes that cam is of my one of my old alma maters at Pocafella. 1969 - vo-tech - Machine Shop.

Rapaire moved there a year or so ago and is a welcome addition to our fine state. Although I've not met him personally I've certainly enjoyed his moderated and well thought out posts here.

God Bless
Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: GUEST,Blackcatter
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 03:09 PM

Who should be punished are those people who fly the flag in an inappropriate manner - and not as a protest statement.

Any one who flies it at night without a light on it.

Anyone who flies a battered flag on a regular basis (one that was battered, torn, etc. simply by the fact that they've been flying it too long.

Anyone who uses the flag as clothing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 07:28 PM

We live on an old school property with a little one-room school. John Howard hasn't offered us a flag yet (which we'd have to pay for of course and add a plaque saying he did. See Foolestroope above), but if he does we'll get ourselves a Jolly Roger. Joy


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 11:51 PM

har, har ye maties!


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Joybell
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:08 AM

And a bottle of rum! Yo Ho Ho!


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 09:29 AM

Bundy O.P. - of course!


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: GUEST,Blackcatter
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 04:38 PM

Nothing but the best of Aussie school kids.

By the way, I've never asked, is "Aussie" an ok term? I mean do Australians use it, are they bothered by it, etc.?


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: JennyO
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 11:43 PM

it's absolutely fine by me, Blackcatter. I don't think any of us will mind. It's not used here as a derogatory term.

Jenny


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 12:37 AM

"Aussie" also has never had any racial overtones.

"Kiwi" is a mostly affectionate term used by Aussies for New Zealanders.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Peace
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 12:42 AM

Canucks is what we call the Vancouver hockey team in the NHL.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 01:38 AM

What do you call them when they're not in the NHL?

By the way, should that be the IHL? As in International? Or is Canada considered to be the 51st state in the NHL?


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Peace
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 01:44 AM

Hey, fella, we invented the NHL. That's probably BS, but hey, it sounds good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Joybell
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 07:37 AM

Yes Aussie's Ok. Here my True-love is sometimes called "Septic" (rhyming slang for Yank from Septic Tank) which is also used as a term of affection. Soon he'll have dual citizenship which will make him a "Septic Aussie" I guess. Joy


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Mudcat time: 27 October 8:35 PM EDT

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