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BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!

Peace 09 Aug 04 - 01:54 PM
Blackcatter 09 Aug 04 - 01:47 PM
Bobert 09 Aug 04 - 01:45 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Aug 04 - 01:33 PM
Peace 09 Aug 04 - 12:57 PM
Stilly River Sage 09 Aug 04 - 12:45 PM
Peace 09 Aug 04 - 12:44 PM
wysiwyg 09 Aug 04 - 12:43 PM
Jim Dixon 09 Aug 04 - 12:39 PM
Jim Dixon 09 Aug 04 - 12:31 PM
Little Hawk 09 Aug 04 - 12:14 PM
Blackcatter 09 Aug 04 - 12:13 PM
Bill D 09 Aug 04 - 11:34 AM
curmudgeon 09 Aug 04 - 11:33 AM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Aug 04 - 10:38 AM
Rapparee 09 Aug 04 - 09:36 AM
Bert 09 Aug 04 - 01:06 AM
Peace 09 Aug 04 - 12:43 AM
katlaughing 09 Aug 04 - 12:40 AM
Peace 09 Aug 04 - 12:37 AM
Little Hawk 09 Aug 04 - 12:37 AM
Peace 09 Aug 04 - 12:26 AM
GUEST,John O'Lennaine 09 Aug 04 - 12:26 AM
CarolC 09 Aug 04 - 12:12 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 09 Aug 04 - 12:06 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Peace
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 01:54 PM

Vote GREEN: Give peas a chance!


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 01:47 PM

One of the other problems this causes is that because of new fire safety regulations, only 20% of walls can be covered with anything. So another 3X5 foot section means that even less childern art or information posters can go up on the walls.

Of course, something like 30% of our students are going to classes in trailers. Talk about real "trailer trash."


Of course, an ignorant population doesn't vote and them that do usually vote Republican.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 01:45 PM

Down in Leesburg, Va. (where I used to have my business) they have a three flag rule. Put up a forth and you *will* get a letter...

Also on the serious side, back 'round 1980 after retirib from my job as a social worker, I went to work at Dominion Chevrolet in Richmond, Va. in their service deperatment. Well, the owner got this idea that he would sell more cars if he had a bigger flag so he purchased the largest flag that he could find. It was like 30 feet long and 18 or so feet high... Well, it wasn't up more than an hour before someone complained about the size of it. Go figure? Wouldn'
t happen these days, that's fir sure...

BTW, when ever the wind came up they'd have to draft the tow rucker driver, who happened to weigh in at about 250 pounds, to get the danged think down. I remember one afternoon that he was out on call and by the time he got back that flag was carryin' on something fierce and he somehow got hold of one corner of it, held on fir dear life and had himself a fine ol' ride as that flag picked him up like he was nuthin' but a hot air baloon... Now that was sight to see... Sho nuff was...

Opps... Sorry about the drift...

BTW, I ain't go no flags on my ol' Toyota and no "God Bless America" bumper stickers either. I do have a variety of Green Party stickers. Do they count fir anything? Ya' reckon I might get arrested?

And, BTW, part 2... No wise crack comments about the Green Party stickers being responsible for the current administration being in power. Heck, if they had had to steal a few more million votes, they would have...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 01:33 PM

Further to Brucie's comment above:
FDR update it Here

But still 1:1.9

Is the Florida legislature contravening US executive order 10834?

Nigel (My flag is red white & green!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Peace
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:57 PM

Alberta has returned to that also. Our school division has mandated that each classroom have a flag which students must face as the National Anthem is played over the intercom. We also have a daily reading of the Lord's Prayer--but I AM in a Catholic school.

The only part of SRS's post with which I disagree, and it's not major, is this: The study of Wing Chun (a martial art) has taught me that to make a 'move' my own I have to repeat it about 5,000 times. Then, in a combined defense/offense strike, it is 'automatic', and therefore faster. I think the same can be said of facing flags and hearing anthems and repeating prayers. Indoctrination does work for most, and then when countries or religions call for the unquestioning support of their adherents, they get it like right now. "Though this be madness, there is method in it."

I would give my life for this country and its people, but before I have to do that I will fight every stupid, ill-considered policy with all the might I can muster. Because, to me, that is what a patriot SHOULD do.

Bruce M


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:45 PM

There are many tendrils to this pledge and/or loyalty question.

A boss at a Corps of Engineers office in Central Texas went further than having new employees read and sign the loyalty oath--he administered it in person and had you read it out loud. You have the option to "so help me" to someone's god or to "so affirm." I chose "so affirm" and his eyebrows went way up on that one.

I can't help but think that the folks who want this flags firmly in place are the same ones who want school prayer to be part of the curriculum. When I can I sit out the pledge, or if pushed to rise, I just stand with my hands at my side, and when they get to the prayer (which they invariably do at public meetings down here in Texas) I just sit, or I stand looking forward with no gesture or indication that I'm participating. And I usually see several others practicing a similar form of non-participation.

The pledge doesn't make the U.S. any stronger or smarter or make kids and more likely to grow to be loyal subjects or patriotic citizens. It just makes a few people feel good to see everyone else have to go through their little routine.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Peace
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:44 PM

"Patriots shout promises and fools salute a flag,
While the country which it represents is torn apart like rags,
It's not just done in fact, it's done in deed;
I count the blessing daily that the air I breathe is free,
But between assault and battery you'll be brought to your knees,
It hurts me deep inside to see you bleed,
My country 'tis of thee,
Country 'tis of thee."

From a song I wrote for Canada many years back.

Bruce M


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:43 PM

VFW's also GIVE flags. Let's be sure who we're attacking eh?

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:39 PM

Furthermore, if they don't give it to you, use this information to embarrass them as much as possible. Write letters to your local newspapers denouncing the VFW (or whoever) for being "patriotic" enough to lobby for the bill, but not patriotic enough to put their money where their mouth is. If those organizatons, whoever they are, have given money to politicians, publicize that, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:31 PM

Find out what organizations lobbied for the bill and ask THEM for the money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:14 PM

Dang right. I think that the public in Florida should be ordered by law to purchase flags that are so absolutely HUGE...imagine flags that are at least 20 by 35 feet, for example...that everyone would finally realize just how silly the whole damn thing is and get over it. I have never seen any place more obsessed with its flag than the good old USA. It is idolatry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:13 PM

Here's what we've had to do in Central Florida to help our kids and teachers stock there book bags and classrooms with "required" supplies.

A Gift For Teaching

♥ Almost half of the students can't afford lunch, much less school supplies.

♥ Some kids go to school without socks, underwear or showers.

♥ Teachers spend an average of $500 a year to help care for their students' needs.

♥ School supply budgets only allocate five cents a day for each student.

♥ Our Mission

The mission of A Gift For Teaching is to ensure that children in Central Florida have the basic tools for learning by transferring, at no cost, the community's surplus supplies and merchandise into the hands of teachers and school children in need. The schools participating are from the most impoverished areas, based on the percentage of students enrolled in the free and reduced lunch program.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 11:34 AM

it's a bad sign when we are ORDERED to display a flag.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: curmudgeon
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 11:33 AM

Not much difference than bowing down to the Emperor's hat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 10:38 AM

Doesn't flag worship count as some kind of religion? Sticking a flag on the wall and paying homage to it is a kind of idolatry. Thank God we never have that kind of stuff in schools here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 09:36 AM

We're flying a 5 x 8 foot US flag instead of the 3 x 5 one we started with. It's more proportional to the height of the flag pole.

State law in both Kentucky and Idaho requires public buildings to display both the US and state flags. I'll hoist the state flaq (3 x 5) when we get one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Bert
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 01:06 AM

LOL katmeluv.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Peace
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:43 AM

Wallets--but rub 'em and they turn into suitcases. No doubt!


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:40 AM

Personally, I think they should all be flown upside in the distress sign! (The legislators were probably thinking with their teeny-tiny dicks which they hoped would grow at the sight of all those *larger* flags!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Peace
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:37 AM

Were I a school principal, I would have the flags hand made by students in art class. Make sure that the stars and stripes are proportionally correct and that the dimensions meet Taft's executive order--or the latest ececutive order. Pin it to the wall. Cheap, good to develop math skills, measuring, drafting, planning, teamwork, painting, etc. No one said it had to be bought or made from cloth. It would be a chance for teachers to do cooperative teaching--history of the flag, the colonies, etc. There is lots to learn. First thing to learn is that the law is the law. Second thing is to interpret the law.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:37 AM

Sounds kind of like the atmosphere in Imperial Japan in 1944. Be patriotic or else!


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Peace
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:26 AM

"An executive order issued by President William Howard Taft on Oct. 29,1912, fixed the overall width and length of the U.S. flag, known technically as the hoist and fly, respectively, in a ratio of 1: 1.9."

from    www.outlawslegal.com/organic/flag.htm

Seems they may have the dimensions wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:26 AM

Exactly the same thing has recently happened in New South Wales (Australia).

All schools are required by law to fly an Australian flag, at their own expense.
Every school I know of always did, but now its THE LAW.

When there are so many schools in need of staff and basic teaching equipment, I think this burst of patriotism is a little unseemly.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:12 AM

GET OUTTA THERE WHILE YOU STILL CAN BEE-DUBYA-ELL!!!!!!


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Subject: BS: Buy a flag, fly a flag, or go to jail!
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:06 AM

The legislature of the state of Florida, in its infinite wisdom, has decreed that all classrooms in all public schools and publicly supported colleges and universities within the state shall have a US flag on display. Furthermore, said flag shall be no smaller or larger than exactly two-feet by three-feet. (Related news article here.)

Now, I have no problem with US flags being displayed in classrooms. There was one in every classroom I was in for twelve years. I pledged allegiance to it every morning and still grew up to be a pinko hippie radical. The problem is the two-foot by three-foot size thing. Most classrooms currently have flags of about half that size. That means everyone's gotta buy new flags or face a penalty. And, in its never-ending quest to have Florida proclaimed the home of the unfunded mandate, the legislature provided absolutely no funding for purchasing these new flags. "We can say you've gotta do it, but we don't have to give you the money to do it with!" It's up to the individual schools or school districts to find the money. Of course, no school system has a dime to spare so the school principals will probably go begging to the PTA.

But here's my real beef: Who says a larger flag is more patriotic than a small one? Don't they all have the same number of stars and stripes? Don't they symbolize the same thing regardless of size? Don't my elected representatives have anything better to do with their time?


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Mudcat time: 27 October 7:30 PM EDT

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