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BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!

Peace 30 Jul 04 - 02:54 PM
GUEST 30 Jul 04 - 02:47 PM
Peter T. 30 Jul 04 - 02:44 PM
Don Firth 30 Jul 04 - 02:41 PM
Peace 30 Jul 04 - 02:33 PM
GUEST,rich 30 Jul 04 - 02:32 PM
GUEST 30 Jul 04 - 02:29 PM
Big Mick 30 Jul 04 - 02:27 PM
beardedbruce 30 Jul 04 - 02:18 PM
GUEST,Frank 30 Jul 04 - 02:10 PM
Don Firth 30 Jul 04 - 02:09 PM
GUEST 30 Jul 04 - 02:09 PM
SINSULL 30 Jul 04 - 01:55 PM
GUEST 30 Jul 04 - 01:51 PM
GUEST 30 Jul 04 - 01:45 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 30 Jul 04 - 01:30 PM
GUEST 30 Jul 04 - 01:24 PM
Bill D 30 Jul 04 - 01:08 PM
Don Firth 30 Jul 04 - 12:52 PM
Amos 30 Jul 04 - 12:12 PM
SINSULL 30 Jul 04 - 12:05 PM
Jeri 30 Jul 04 - 11:58 AM
maire-aine 30 Jul 04 - 11:46 AM
Bagpuss 30 Jul 04 - 11:19 AM
GUEST,TIA 30 Jul 04 - 11:12 AM
GUEST 30 Jul 04 - 10:51 AM
Nerd 30 Jul 04 - 10:41 AM
GUEST,MMario 30 Jul 04 - 10:41 AM
GUEST 30 Jul 04 - 10:28 AM
Amos 30 Jul 04 - 10:17 AM
Rapparee 30 Jul 04 - 09:54 AM
Peter T. 30 Jul 04 - 09:38 AM
GUEST,TIA 30 Jul 04 - 09:34 AM
GUEST 30 Jul 04 - 09:22 AM
GUEST 30 Jul 04 - 09:17 AM
Amos 30 Jul 04 - 08:57 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 30 Jul 04 - 08:45 AM
Big Mick 30 Jul 04 - 07:17 AM
kendall 30 Jul 04 - 07:10 AM
Ellenpoly 30 Jul 04 - 04:12 AM
C-flat 30 Jul 04 - 02:49 AM
GUEST 30 Jul 04 - 01:51 AM
GUEST 30 Jul 04 - 01:45 AM
Stilly River Sage 30 Jul 04 - 01:32 AM
GUEST 30 Jul 04 - 01:05 AM
michaelr 30 Jul 04 - 01:03 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 30 Jul 04 - 01:00 AM
Joe Offer 30 Jul 04 - 12:59 AM
Bill D 30 Jul 04 - 12:37 AM
Deckman 29 Jul 04 - 11:58 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Peace
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:54 PM

Bush has lied to the American people. Put whatever spin on that you wish, but he has lied. And his lies have cost lives. Fer the love of Pete, he wasn't even ELECTED! I think that's enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:47 PM

Why should John Kerry be president of the US, but Bush shouldn't? What is Bush actually doing that makes him so bad? He isn't worse than Nixon, that's for sure. Or Harry Truman, for that matter. Harry Truman is the one who ordered the dropping of the bomb. In my book, that makes Harry Truman the worst political leader of all time. Killing 70,000 people in an instant, and unleashing the nuclear nightmare on the planet. Now that is one bad mother fucker f a political leader.

So--what specifically is Bush doing that is worse than his daddy or Ronnie Rayguns or Tricky Dick or Harry Truman?

Answer: nothing. The Democrats are just really fucking pissed, still, that they won the popular vote and lost the White House. That's it, really. This so-called unity isn't unity at all. It is all about vengeance. The Democratic party vendetta.

But guess what Kerry voters? Some of us in the country weren't the least bit surprised by what happened in 2000, because we know that had the tables been turned, that Gore and the Democrats would have done exactly what Bush and the Republicans did--which is to go to any lengths, legal or illegal, consitutional or unconstitutional, moral or repugnant, to win.

We've also moved on, and are interested in what's best for the country and the world, not for the hate filled Republicans and Democrats caught up in this vengeful death match.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Peter T.
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:44 PM

It is not true! I hated George W. when he was a major league baseball team owner! (But then I hate all major league baseball team owners).

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:41 PM

Like I said:   raving.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Peace
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:33 PM

"Voting Kerry and hoping for the best isn't doing anything to change what people hate about Bush."

You are so fu#kin' wrong it's unreal. What people hate about Bush is that he's President of the United States. Voting for Kerry WILL change that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST,rich
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:32 PM

guest,

Here, I looked this up for ya.
Sanctimonious: hypocritically devout
After a little bit of research into your flimsily-veiled guest voice on Mudcat (see that you have a couple actual identities on Mudcat too), I've discovered that this word describes you to the letter.
Some other words for you inertia, exposed, effete, flatulent.

So why this constant abuse of those who make honest attempts at FRUITFUL discussion? Is it self-hatred maybe?

Lemme guess guest. The tattoos and body piercings are no longer cutting it. You find no one near and dear willing to give you the good hiding for which you so long. You spend quite a lot of time desperately reaching out here and (and various other SAFE places)hoping for a good cyber flogging. A good mistress is out of the question since you can't hire a professional because you are donating all that money from your worthy "art" to the leftist cause.

Obviously, it is yourself you detest. You are pretentious without any geniune worth or substance. Keep hobbling about doing your deranged monkey dance of self-loathing. Or, as Billy Connelly said, see if you can get someone IN REAL LIFE to "see their way clear to beating the shite out of you" and then try to be of some use to someone other than yourself. You have to try. That's the key here. Sitting at the computer spewing bile, hoping for a good kicking, ISN'T WORKING.

rich


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:29 PM

Raving, Don? Nice try demonizing me just because I'm voicing a dissenting opinion on who to vote for in November.

Do you not get how anti-democratic and repressive this "Anybody But Bush" is making us as a nation?

I'm not saying there shouldn't be political systems. I'm saying that continuing business as usual when the political system is collapsing from corruption and graft and taking us all down the toilet with it, isn't THE BEST SOLUTION. Voting Kerry and hoping for the best isn't doing anything to change what people hate about Bush.

Can any of you actually explain, specifically, what it is that you hate about Bush? What does he do and what does he represent that so many of you loathe? You tell me.

Then rationally and logically explain how replacing Bush with someone who is nearly an exact replica of him (same racial group, same culture, born with the same silver spoons, went to the same schools, raised in wealthy dynastic families of the ruling elite), regardless of their handful of philosophical differences, will end what you all loathe in George Bush?

Your belief that Kerry is better than Bush is rooted in your fixed, narrow partisan political beliefs, not in reality. That is all I'm trying to say. Replacing Bush with Kerry will not change anything significantly in the long, or likely even in the short term.

These guys aren't the true rulers of the global capitalist system. There is a whole cartel of them, and the presidential election thing just changes the face they have to show the public. Kerry is just as acceptable to them as Bush is. The global capitalists really don't care who is president of the US, because regardless of who it is, they own and will control him/her. A lot of money is spent on this "democratic elections" sham. That is good business for the global capitalist ruling elite.

Kerry can call out the Saudi royal family just like Michael Moore can, sure. But he can't get rid of them, or their influence in American politics or the politics of any nation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:27 PM

GUEST, if I were Amos I wouldn't explain shit to you until you explain the actions of your guy as you have been challenged to do. In another thread you accused me of hijacking your thread, but that is what is happening here by you. You are a sick, bitter person with nothing of worth to offer. Most of the people that read your posts, even though many of them that I know have not dissimilar views, find your existence here to be offensive. That is because you offer nothing.

I am not troubled by the military references although I thought it got laid on a bit heavy. For far too long the progressive community has allowed these neo con bastards to co-opt the issues of patriotism and love of country. We have allowed them to co-opt the "traditional values" piece without argument. And it cost us the great middle, hence we end up in a place like Iraq. That is what our shortsighted antagonistic GUEST always misses. Were it not for mistakes on the Gore team, also the Florida debacle, as well as the Naderites, we would not be here. Time to correct that.

I thought Kerry laid out the differences last night very clearly. For the first time in a long time, we have a real campaign. And it will be one of the most interesting in years.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:18 PM

No comment on the speech, but it should be noted that the proper form of address is "Senator Kerry"- the highest office which he has held so far. ( I don't think he has been elected govenor anywhere)




This is a non-political statement brought to you in the interest of accuracy. No approval or disapproval of the candidate or his positions is intended.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:10 PM

Of course he's a politician. What's wrong with that? FDR was. Reagan was. What do you expect from someone running for office?

All of those who are so   critical of politics, what would they put in place of that?, Preachy moralizing and stubborn ideology? Politics is the art of getting elected for office. If anyone has a better way of doing this, I'd like to know about it.

Kerry is a politician but he's n honest one. He crafted a fine speech and he knows that he has to play the military hero card to get elected. Mainly because Bush has cornered him on that. But it makes Bush look foolish to suggest that he is a strong commander-in chief without any military experience himself.

I don't like the military rhetoric but every president has used it to claim victory particularly in a wartime situation.

Are we really at war or is this a manifestation of hysteria and paranoia? Does Al Quaeda really want to destroy the US or do they just want to make a point about American troops on Islamic soil?
Just who is Al Quaeda anyhow? A loose bunch of vicious thugs which are not connected in any military way? How much does bin Laden control it? Is it as much as Arafat controls the Palestinians?

There are a lot of unanswered questions that are given simplistic answers by so-called military pundits. We need someone with sophistication and intelligence to sort this all out.

Anyhow, Kerry has proved that he is sophisticated in foreign policy and is willing to be flexible.

Bush OTOH is a genuine flip-flopper. All his criticism of Kerry is the pot calling the kettle black. I could enumerate furthur, but I think it's stating the obvious just how he has flip-flopped on almost every policy that he advocated since he was not elected.

For an enterating book, Justin Frank's "Bush On the Couch" will give some perspective.

I'm glad that Kerry is a good politican as was Clinton who will emerge in history as a great talented president regardless of his
sickness in social matters. He shot himself in the foot with Monica giving that pornographer Ken Starr amunition to bring down a great presidency. But being president is not being a rock star. It's not being a "personality" or a paragon of morality.These so-called Christians would do well to understand that. Some may not like the analogy but being the leader not unlike a CEO is in a sucessful business.   It's a better way to go than dictatorship. Castro may have performed some good things for his country but he's still a dictator.

If anybody has a better way of electing a president I'd like to know about it. Even many socialist governments have elections.



Frank


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:09 PM

GUEST, calm down! You're raving!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:09 PM

"There is no viable plan possible to accomplish both so I didn't expect Kerry to have one anymore than I expect one from bush."

Good. Glad to see we agree on the point that neither the Republicans nor the Democrats has an exit strategy.

So if as a voter, my number one election issue is to end the US occupation of Iraq (which it is), and neither Bush nor Kerry has an exit strategy, why should I vote for either of them? Because you guys hate one of the guys, but are only marginally displeased with the other?

No one knows if more Iraqis and occupation forces will be killed if we continue the occupation, than if we end it as soon as possible. It doesn't take any more planning to load the troops on the same ships they went over on, and have the captain sail in the opposite direction, than it did to get them over there to begin with, obviously. Everyone could be home by Christmas.

Yes, more Iraqis would die, but it is much more likely, IMO that many, many more Iraqis will die if this occupation continues indefinitely, under the ruse of "bringing stability and order to Iraq" than if we simply bring the troops home now. Ending the occupation WOULD concentrate the minds of the Iraqis and the international community to work on the problem, without having it take up all the resources and energy and time of the international community, when it needs to focus on much more serious hotspots, like Sudan, the West Bank, Gaza, and Israel, North Korea, etc.

Sometimes, you just need to admit that we fucked up, and get the hell out, just like we eventually did in Vietnam. That IS what is called for in this instance. Anything else just makes it an imperial occupation for oil. Oh wait--I forgot! That IS why Kerry is planning on staying in Iraq! That's what we went in for!


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 01:55 PM

See my post above Guest. And if you have one, we would all love to hear it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 01:51 PM

BTW, I'm still waiting for Amos, or any of you Kerry voters, to explain the Iraq exit strategy of the Kerry/Edwards team to me.

Specifics, please.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 01:45 PM

Kerry will continue bombing the hell out of the Iraqis, just like George Bush. He has the moral conscience of every other global capitalist politician, which is to say, none. It's their way, or they bomb us back to the stone age, with weapons both military and economic.

But hey, I'm really happy the empire is working well for so many of you here in Mudcatville. Iraqi people be damned.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 01:30 PM

Kerry is just the man to show the world that we Americans DO have a conscience. Teresa is no idle tupperware princess (taking notes, Laura?), and her convictions run clear and deep. Edwards is a fine speaker and has been an excellent advocate for populist concerns in his self-made carrer.

It's time to turn a deaf ear to the nay-faring bushmen and their eloquent denial of goodness and the 'True American Spirit'. Just let 'em go off in a vacuum... just like porn pervs... There's not much we can do for their Karma until they atone... but they will always be welcome to learn humility.

The American people have nominated the best possible man to beat Bush and turn this country around. Don't expect any 'miracles'... the situation is too grave for such nonsense... But firm determination for a humble reassessment, and a humane approach to "American Power" will do us right...

The arrogance of the 'specter' that animates the Bush sector
Now's a clear lack of clothing, and an empire of loathing
ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 01:24 PM

"GUEST's comments, judging from his or her comments on other threads, are to be expected. They could have even been written before he or she heard Kerry's speech."

Right Don, and so could yours and all the other totally predictable comments coming from the people here who intended to vote for Kerry before the speech was made--they all heard what they wanted to hear too.

How many millions of dollars have now gone done the toilet trying to change peoples' minds, without any minds being changed? The poll numbers remain virtually unchanged. Television advertising to date on the presidential election to date (from all sources, not just the candidates) is about a half billion dollars. And nothing changed the day after the speech. Nor will it after Bush's acceptance speech in September.

Which rather suggests, the entire exercise is a sham, and there just might be something truly fucked up with this system, doesn't it?

Kills me the lengths you all go to in order to justify your sanctimonious participation in what is a huge sham.

Me, I figure that money could be much better spent in a zillion places, but hey--I know nothing works better than the illusion of voting being a democratic process in a global capitalist state.

So touche to you too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 01:08 PM

bottom line-- military issues WILL be on the front burner for the forseeable future, so Kerry had to offer evidence that he is willing to deal with them intelligently rather than diving in on a whim and hoping, like Bush.

We need exactly what Kerry proposed...a bit larger regular force who knows what they are getting into, and some emphasis on 'special forces' with special skills....and leave the National Guard alone! except for real emergencies.

The Republicans ARE going to (and have already) suggest that Kerry's service in 'Nam was too 'short' and tainted by 'minor' wounds, so why NOT show the folks who served with Kerry and respected everything he did? (If Kerry had been shot BAD, they'd just say he was too dumb to duck!)

Kerry DID volunteer, he DID serve...and he didn't like a lot of what he saw once he was there, like a lot of others. A man of courage and committment would protest and complain about that....that doesn't make him a flip-flopper OR a traitor...he protested bad behavior of a few and bad leadership at the top, not brave soldiers or his country in general. (Who has listened to the tapes of LBJ trying to figure out how to get out of that mess and practically admitting he'd dug a hole with no escape! Bush has done that too, but he is not smart enough to see what dumb mistakes he has made)

Is Kerry perfect? Nope...but I see basic 'honesty' and dedication in him...not equivocation or confusion. A man who is honest and aware MUST change some of his views over time, as circumstances change. Those who would rather have a G W Bush, making one decision and holding to it as we all sink deeper into the Big Muddy Sandy, are welcome to him!


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 12:52 PM

Whenever I hear a political speech and then listen to the commentaries afterward (composed of dissection, nit-picking, conjecture about what a particular word or phrase really meant, and speculations about whether or not the speaker got his message across to left-handed, blue-eyed Latino ballet dancers in Nebraska), I often wonder if they actually listened to the same speech I did.

I though John Kerry delivered a helluva good speech and it was right on point.

GUEST's comments, judging from his or her comments on other threads, are to be expected. They could have even been written before he or she heard Kerry's speech.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 12:12 PM

It's easy to mock, especially for somoene with a fervid imagination like Barry. Ya know what is NOT so easy? Making osmething like that DNC happen. Raising those kids. Putting out the effort to   get that crew out of Vietname intact. About the time Kerry was pulling that sailor back over the bow under fire, Bush was wandering around on a Texas parking lot shaking hands and smirking... Point is, he has acheived some real results in the real world, and shown somne character doing so.

I know he ain't perfect. I'd rather he not be, actually -- it shows me he's human.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 12:05 PM

I watched. Two thoughts - one, he raised two pretty amazing children who were credible, poised, and sober though a bit sentimental. That says a lot TO ME about Dad. Second, this is a man who looks presidential. And after four years of cringing every time baby bush opens his mouth, that counts for something TO ME.

No one can get us out of Iraq without additional loss of lives on all sides. No one can get out out of Iraq without a significant loss of face. Some of us knew that before we went in. There is no viable plan possible to accomplish both so I didn't expect Kerry to have one anymore than I expect one from bush.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 11:58 AM

One thing, very near the end, and I'm probably paraphrasing: "Never again will we declare an unjust war." Anybody who thought he was talking about Viet Nam was wrong.

I thought they hammered the military service issue, but I could understand why. People look at Bush as if he's a strong Commander in Chief, and he isn't. He may not blink when he feels he has to send people off to get killed in order to wipe out an 'ism' and protect our oil, but a good Commander in Chief looks ahead and considers whether the potential victory is worth the cost. A good Commander in Chief has equal measures of authority AND sense of responsibility. A good President does too.

I don't trust Bush and I don't trust the people around him. Kerry isn't the greatest public speaker (although he was pretty good last night), but I DO think he actually believes in what he says he believes in and that the public person isn't very different from the private one. He's done enough things in his life simply because they were the right things to do. I think the man has a conscience and listens to it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: maire-aine
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 11:46 AM

I watched Kerry's speech last night, and I think he said everything just right. I was very happy with it. As to whether there were too many references to Vietnam, maybe. Or maybe we're just recognizing the debt that we owe these men and women that we've never acknowledged before. I think the dedication of the WW2 memorial and the 60th anniv. of D-Day has given us a chance to reflect on military service, and honoring Vietnam vets is just the next step. Although we may have opposed the war itself, the soldiers didn't have any control over that part.

Maryanne


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Bagpuss
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 11:19 AM

Anyone really expect a politician to actually *keep* the promises they make....?

(remembering specifically Blunkett's "Read my lips, no selection by examination or interview" speech


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 11:12 AM

"I notice Kerry said no BACK DOOR draft, but DIDN'T say NO DRAFT"

Context - both verbal and situational - is important when listening or reading. A specific mention of backdoor draft is warranted because one currently exists. No mention of a regular draft does not imply an intent to create one. Instead, no mention may be necessary because one does not currently exist. For example, is it telling that Kerry did not promise that he would NOT require military personnel to fill their boots with lemon cream? Does this imply that he will require such? Oh my gosh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 10:51 AM

Posted on Fri, Jul. 30, 2004

Dave Barry | Kerry's bark is aimed at undecideds

Kerry gave a solid speech expressing the clear, confident message: "I, Too, Am an Undecided Voter." This message was calculated to appeal to undecided voters, who, according to the polls, still aren't sure who, exactly, Kerry is, where he stands on the issues or whether he is, in fact, a carbon-based life form.

The speech ended with the traditional "balloon drop," which was slightly less festive than usual because the balloons, for security reasons, were not inflated.

(A Secret Service spokesperson explained: "Air contains nitrogen, which we have reason to believe is a chemical.")

Was Kerry's speech effective?

Well, the TV ratings for this convention, like those of all recent political conventions, have been horrible.

If they want people to watch these things, they're going to have to start making the speakers eat live cockroaches or something.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Nerd
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 10:41 AM

The great thing about you, GUEST, is you prove that Kerry is doing exactly the right thing. You have made it clear here and elsewhere that you would not vote for him no matter what he said, because voting for a Democrat would disgust you. Therefore, he is absolutely right to completely ignore your concerns. He knows that the left fringe like you will never vote for him, that the less radical leftists will vote for him no matter what he says at the convention, and that he is therefore speaking primarily to a few people in the middle. Hence the empty talk of character and the military, which I agree is tiresome and indeed distasteful.

Before Dean's demise, I was one of those leftists who thought firing up our base with a more progressive message might get out more votes. But you have confirmed for me that the message strategy of Kerry is essentially correct; you would not have voted for any of the Democrats, so he simply couldn't get your vote no matter what he said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 10:41 AM

of course there was the usual political fairy tales too - universal health benefits, lower drug costs, more education, child care, more and better paying jobs; halving the deficit; while at the same time increasing the milatary plus new weapons and equiptment for the military, 100% inspection of incoming container ships, etc.

and all of this while cutting taxes...


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 10:28 AM

Oh yes, I missed the exit strategy. Don't keep us in suspense any longer now, Amos. What exactly IS the exit strategy of the Kerry/Edwards team, and when will be exiting?

And if we will be leaving soon, why did they promise more special forces recruitment? I notice Kerry said no BACK DOOR draft, but DIDN'T say NO DRAFT. Also, it looks like Kerry/Edwards will order us up some shiny new weapons systems too.

Looks like Christmas for the Pentagon to me!


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 10:17 AM

I've thought a lot about the things I heard. The guy who Kerry came back to save when he fell overboard, the Kerry girls, the people who have worked with him. I appreciate the way he handled the charge of being over-complex, the emphsasis on truth-telling, and behind the military rahrah, the fact the has shown courage on many occasions, as Bush has not. I liked his acknowledgement of the forming COnstitutional crisis and John Ashcroft's role in it.

My take on it is that John Kerry is a good man. He is slightly awkward sometimes, but I would rather have an awkward and brave person in office than a deft coward.

Of course, I have been disillusioned before on such matters.

I think the military color of the presentations, when it was there, was a political necessity. So I am willing to suspend judgement against Kerry on that account. His commitment is military strength but no miltary deployment unless it "has to be done". God only knows what that means in practice. BTW, Guest, you may have missed it, but he distinctly addressed the exit strategy for Iraq, at least in general terms. But I sincerely doubt he will engage in the kind of warmongering Cheney has committed using Bush. Bear in mind he is entering a major political race, and intending to win it.   

I hope he does and will try to help.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 09:54 AM

I'm reminded of the song "Neck Deep In The Big Muddy." The Bushrat got us into a friggin' mess and someone has to get us out. Out, not with Nixon's "Peace With Honor" but out with the minimum number of casualties. And as every military tactician and strategist knows, a badly planned withdrawal can cost more deaths and wounded (civilian and military) than staying and fighting on. The Bushbaby ain't gonna do it -- he's made a mess and now other folks are going to have to clean it up. I don't know if Kerry's the person for it, but the Bushies SURE ain't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Peter T.
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 09:38 AM

Not having a TV, I happened to be at a friend's and watched the evening for the hell of it. Scared the hell out of me, the complete saturation of American speech with war metaphors. All this sucking up to the military, Wesley Clark was the worst -- as if soldiers were gods. We are not too far from Seven Days in May: it will all become so corrupt that what we need is one of our shining soldiers to clean out these crooks. I kept wondering what Dwight Eisenhower would have said. Nothing.
yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 09:34 AM

I didn't watch much of the convention, but I did see Joe Scarborough, Bill Bennet, Ann Coulter (fer chrissakes) and others of their persuasion providing commentary on the DN convention. Does this mean that the fair and balanced media will allow commentary on the RN con. by Al Franken, Maureen Dowd, Paul Krugman, or even Michael Moore? I'm holding my breath.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 09:22 AM

If he wasn't running against Bush, this guy would lose by a landslide.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 09:17 AM

The propaganda was all military, all the time. Yet, no mention of how to get us out of Iraq. And of course, no mention of the Iraqi people themselves. Or Sudan. Or the Middle East at all.

And this is being billed by all the DLC/Kerry camp pundits as a speech that addresses major foreign policy issues.

Load of crap.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 08:57 AM

I don't think he is pro-war. I do think he is pro-strength. Bush is actively pro-war.
They overplayed his military past, but they also took pains to underscore his position on war -- only when we have to. I agree that "Reporting for duty" was an overdramatization, but it is possible coming out of his mouth that it actually meant what it said.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 08:45 AM

Like others have said, Kerry ain't the guy I would have wanted, but he's the guy we get. But, being realistic, would a true pro-peace candidate stand a chance? Hell, the only real pro-peace presidential candidate ever to be nominated by a major party was George McGovern and he lost in a landslide to the only president in recent memory who may have been worse than Dubya.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 07:17 AM

Folks with no frame of reference don't know that, Captain. It is easy to poo poo one's war experiences, when you have never experienced war. This man could have stayed home, as Clinton pointed out, but he went. Then when he came home, expressed the ultimate in patriotism by speaking out against the war.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: kendall
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 07:10 AM

He has to counter the Bush lies about his record. Bush is a deserter so, naturally, he has to crap on Kerry's record.
These asshole who claim Kerry wasn't seriously wounded forget that in the tropics even a scratch can be life threatening. You don't get a purple heart from choking on a friggin' pretzel!


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 04:12 AM

I'm afraid that as soon as he saluted and said "Reporting for duty" I knew juat what to expect. Kerry's rhetoric was politic-speak.

I'll vote for the man, but I'm far too cynical at this point in the game to think it will change America if he does win.

For me, it's all about getting Bush out.

..xx..e


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: C-flat
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:49 AM

I've just heard him on U.K. morning radio and think that he sounded good but every sentence sounded like a sound-bite. I would be turned off by the way he constantly refers to his military past, his opening line: "John Kerry, reporting for duty!" was stuck there just to remind you that you're in the presence of a military hero.
Kerry looks like winning but anyone could run against Bush at the moment.
C-flat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 01:51 AM

My favorite bit was when Kerry talked about Bush lacking a plan for winning the peace in Iraq. The great irony of it all, is this was the criticism levelled by the man who is running for president without any plan for America's future.

But Kerry's the Anti-Bush, so we've gotta love him!


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 01:45 AM

How come nobody talked about how bloody maudlin all that military sentimentalism crap was?


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 01:32 AM

I think PBS does have balance. I heard the beginning of things on NPR (Linda Wertheimer and crew). In the living room I was watching most of it on CNN and they turned at the end to the head of the Republican National Committee for "a response." Well what the hell do they think the guy is going to say? I switched channels, where I saw the same guy on MSNBC who was mentioned above. That guy was blowing smoke, finding error where there was one, just because he has an audience and if he says something negative someone might listen to him and actually believe it.

It was John Kerry's night, just like in a few weeks it will be Dubya's [swan song] night. May the best man win!

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 01:05 AM

This was the most nationalistic, militaristic convention I've ever seen.   All feel good, love fest, Ronnie Rayguns 'Morning in America' sort of crap.

At least we know who will win come November. The Republicrats.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: michaelr
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 01:03 AM

C'mon you guys -- you mean to tell me that intelligent folks like you are falling for the feeble TV ad this convention obviously is?

The mealy-mouthed, wishy-washy party line being espoused in Boston shows clearly, once again, what spineless wimps the Washington Democratic Party really are. There is no platform, no agenda, no outrage, only a lot of hot air amounting to nothing more than a feel-good, empty commercial.

It was downright jarring to see and hear Dennis Kucinich deliver the same fiery speech he gave in the primaries -- only to have him veer off into a desperate "Courage America - Kerry will save us!"

If I didn't believe that ANYONE BUT BUSH is needed for president, I couldn't give a shit for Kerry, Edwards, and the whole cowardly and corrupt DNC.

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 01:00 AM

Hooray! ...I hope 'w' was watching!

...and now for the tsunami of negative attacks from the nay-faring bushmen... batton down the hatches... and full speed ahead!

Love your country, vote FOR Kerry.
ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 12:59 AM

I watched the speech on PBS (Public Broadcasting), and I really enjoyed it. I have to say that I wondered about the commentaries at the end. Yes, it was a very good speech, but all of the commentators had only positive things to say. It does make you wonder if PBS has balance.

I thought Kerry took ownership of the centrist position in his speech - many of the things he said were far to the right of my point of view. It will interesting to see where Bush puts himself - he may end up in the extreme right.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 12:37 AM

you mean, Joe Scarbourough was wrong? *grin* All his compatriots on the MSNBC panel told him he was all wet, be he kept saying that "Kerry was 'given' some good lines, but rushed thru them and didn't allow crowd reaction," etc....

For 3 more months, 'ol Joe will keep telling anyone who will listen that Kerry is a bad speaker, that he has no charisma, that he is not respected among many soldiers, that his hair is bad, that he eats the wrong brand of soup...etc.

(Yes, I tuned to MSNBC just to win a bet with myself)

Sorry, Joe, but Kerry spoke well, hit the points needed and made sure the country AND GW Bush knew where he was headed....

'twill be interesting


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Speech Mr. Kerry!
From: Deckman
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 11:58 PM

YEP!


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