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Lyr Req: The Herring Song

DigiTrad:
HERRING'S HEAD
THE HARRIN'S HEID [Herring's Head]


Related threads:
Sardine Songs, Herring Hymns (39)
Penguin: The Red Herring (3)
Lyr Req: Harrin's Heed (6)
Tune Req: Herring song (2) (closed)
Eliza C Herring Song chorus (2)
Lyr Add: The Herring's Head (from Chris Foster) (7)


GUEST,keberoxu 11 May 20 - 07:19 PM
EBarnacle 11 May 20 - 05:26 PM
maeve 07 Dec 15 - 09:38 AM
GEST 07 Dec 15 - 09:23 AM
GUEST,GEST 03 Dec 15 - 03:55 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Apr 15 - 09:13 AM
Megan L 21 Apr 15 - 05:40 AM
GUEST,menderman 21 Apr 15 - 04:31 AM
EBarnacle 09 Mar 07 - 11:38 PM
Dave Hunt 09 Mar 07 - 10:40 PM
Gulliver 09 Mar 07 - 02:25 PM
Scrump 09 Mar 07 - 03:15 AM
EBarnacle 08 Mar 07 - 09:49 PM
DannyC 08 Mar 07 - 05:10 PM
Gulliver 08 Mar 07 - 02:43 PM
Deckman 08 Mar 07 - 12:45 PM
Scrump 08 Mar 07 - 11:38 AM
Kevin L Rietmann 08 Mar 07 - 11:26 AM
Cuilionn 09 Feb 04 - 08:57 PM
GUEST 09 Feb 04 - 12:21 PM
Joe Offer 24 Dec 03 - 07:35 PM
GUEST,NSC 23 Jul 01 - 02:04 PM
Malcolm Douglas 21 Jul 01 - 02:46 PM
Shields Folk 21 Jul 01 - 01:37 PM
GUEST,NSC 21 Jul 01 - 07:33 AM
Hawker 21 Jul 01 - 05:18 AM
Tattie Bogle 20 Jul 01 - 08:15 PM
GeorgeH 19 Jul 01 - 11:45 AM
GeorgeH 19 Jul 01 - 11:43 AM
Tattie Bogle 18 Jul 01 - 07:41 PM
Brían 17 Jul 01 - 11:09 PM
Orac 09 Jul 01 - 09:20 AM
Alice 08 Jul 01 - 10:59 AM
Brían 08 Jul 01 - 07:06 AM
Garry Gillard 08 Jul 01 - 06:18 AM
Malcolm Douglas 07 Jul 01 - 12:28 PM
Malcolm Douglas 07 Jul 01 - 12:25 PM
Malcolm Douglas 08 Jun 01 - 01:55 PM
Garry Gillard 08 Jun 01 - 11:25 AM
Mudlark 08 Jun 01 - 01:20 AM
Malcolm Douglas 07 Jun 01 - 09:49 PM
Anglo 07 Jun 01 - 06:05 PM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 07 Jun 01 - 08:52 AM
Charley Noble 07 Jun 01 - 08:30 AM
Malcolm Douglas 07 Jun 01 - 08:08 AM
GUEST,DaisyA 07 Jun 01 - 06:29 AM
GUEST,RZangpo2 07 Jun 01 - 03:01 AM
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Barbara 24 Mar 00 - 01:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 11 May 20 - 07:19 PM

This calls to mind, of all people,
the worldly lyricist Cole Porter.


Electric eels, I might add, do it,
Though it shocks them, I know;
Why ask if shad do it?
Waiter!
Bring me shad roe ...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 May 20 - 05:26 PM

The shad are funning. We have dined on shad roe, pickled the fleshy bits, etc. Several years ago, I mentioned a version similar to Tim Jacques' version, substituting shadfish for herring.

To save people from digging through this thread, here's how I do it, with stage directions for audience participation:

For shad festivals, a cumuulative call and response song. Eric

Adapted from What'll we do with the herring's tail?

What'll we do with the shadfish tail?
Response: What'll we do with the shadfish tail?
Leader: We'll make it into a sloop with sails.

Cho: Shadfish tail--sloop with sails,
And all manner of things.
Leader: Of all the fish that swim in the sea,
The shadfish is the one for me.

Leader: How are ye today, how are ye today,
me hinney-oh.

And what'll we do with the shadfish eyes?
What'll we do with the shadfish eyes?
Bake into puddsings and pies.

Shadfish eyes, puddings and pies,
Shadfish tail, sloop with sails,
and all manner of things.

Shadfish fins, needles and pins
etc, ending with:
Shadfish guts--sailors' buts [boots],
and all manner of things,

Repeating the various parts until you are exhausted.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: maeve
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 09:38 AM

A passing note regarding the request from menderman:

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: GUEST,menderman - PM
Date: 21 Apr 15 - 04:31 AM

Cilla Fisher sings this one- a lovely one!
Whaur Will We Gang (Andy Mitchell)

Menderman found what he/she needed on another request thread on Mudcat, to which I've added the lyrics as sung by Cilla Fisher:
Lyr Req: Whaur Will We Gang (Andrew Mitchell)

Whaur Will We Gang - youtube- as sung by Cilla Fisher


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: GEST
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 09:23 AM

The last post above is mine. ~DUH~


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: GUEST,GEST
Date: 03 Dec 15 - 03:55 PM

Here is a very obscure song worth adding to this thread. I just finished making the page mobile friendly so folks can view it on cell phones and tablets. I'd like to know if anyone has ever worked at the keeler in The Herring Store Song .


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 15 - 09:13 AM

We recorded this from a Kerry Travelelr in London in the 1970s
Jim Carroll

The Herring       (Roud 128)
Rec. from Mikeen McCarthy
                                          
There was an old man who lived in Kenmare,
He used have some herrings and herrings for sale,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his back1
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.
A fine old man and his name it was Jack,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing back, sing man, sing Jack,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his belly,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
A fine old girl and her name it was Nelly,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing belly, sing girl sing Nelly,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his head,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
The finest sledge that ever cut stones,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing head sing sledge, sing bed,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his teeth,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
The finest chisels that ever cut steel,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing teeth, sing teeth, sing steel,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin1

So what do you think they made of his tongue,
Sing avaro lin, sing avero lin,
The finest spring that ever did sprung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing tongue, sing spring, sing sprung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his mouth,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
The finest kettle that ever did spout,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing mouth, sing kettle, sing spout,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his nose,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
The finest hammer that ever broke stones,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing nose, sing hammer, sing stones,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his eyes,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
The finest saucer that ever held spies,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin1
Sing herring, sing eyes, sing saucer, sing spies,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his bones,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
The finest punches that ever punched stones,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing bones1 sing punches, sing stones,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin1
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think we made of his tail,
Sing avaro lift, sing avaro lin,
The finest ship that ever sought sail,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing tail, sing ship, sing sail,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And now I have no more of my song to be sung1
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

This has been claimed by some folklorists to be a corrupt descendant of part of the practice of the sacrificial slaughter of animals, which, in its turn, was said to have replaced the ceremony of appointing a man king for a given period, then killing him and scattering his blood and dismembered parts over the land to ensure a good crop.    The same claim has been made of other songs, such as The Derby Ram, The Mallard and The Wren, though, if this is the case, and there is little evidence to support such claims; they have, as A.L.Lloyd put it, "in the course of the long centuries, lapsed into burlesque".    Such songs have been found all over Britain, Ireland, The United States and Canada, as well as Europe.   In Southern France the victim is the "gentille alouette", or gentle skylark.
More recently "The Herring" was put to far more benign uses.    The cumulative versions of the song were often used as tests of vocal dexterity and memory, "tongue twisters"; for instance, coal miner Jack Elliot of Birtley, County Durham sang;
                                
        Harrin's scales, a ship that sails,
        Herrin's tail, a barrel of ale,
Harrin's belly, a lass caa'ed Nellie,
        Harrin's guts, a pair of byuts (boots),
        Harrin's heid, loaves of breid,
        And aal manner of things.
Of all the fish that live in the sea,
The Harrin' is the one for me.
How are ye the day, how are ye the day,
How are ye the day my hinny O.

The singer who gave it to collector Fred Hamer said that her grandfather used it as a street cry when selling herrings in Buckinghamshire, and in New England, aptly enough in Cape Cod, it was said to have been used as a cradle song by men.
Elsewhere in America and also in a Scots version, the herring is replaced and becomes a pig or sow dying of the measles.

Reference
Journal of The Folk Song Society                 1916
Folk Song In England                                 A L Lloyd
Jack Elliot of Birley                                  LP record
Green Groves                                         Fred Hamer
A Treasury of New England Folklore         B A Botkin.
Miscellanea of The Rymour Club                   Edinburgh 1911 to 1928


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Megan L
Date: 21 Apr 15 - 05:40 AM

Menderman can't pinpoint those lyrics it might get more attention if you start a new thread about it since this is quite an old thread. I will keep cudgelling this slow brain to find it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: GUEST,menderman
Date: 21 Apr 15 - 04:31 AM

does any one know the words to the song that has the chorus and one of the verses is

Blue whitings in season up there off St Kilda
so we'll rig a deep trawl and all head out west
but as tow after tow has been landed for fish meal
Blue Whiting will go just the same as the rest

'and what will we do when the herring all finished
what will we do when the herrings all gone
what will we do with our Pussers and Trawlers
how will we ever pay off the bank loan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: EBarnacle
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 11:38 PM

Herring's guts, sailor's boots


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Dave Hunt
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 10:40 PM

A very long while ago in thai thread Tim Jaques asked

I left out one verse because I couldn't understand Foster's accent no matter how hard I tried. It sounds like:

And what do we do with the old herring's guts,
We'll make them into comic cuts,
Herring's cuts, comic cuts,
And all such things.

Which is quite correct! Comic Cuts was a weekly kids comic in the 1890 -1953 see http://www.bl.uk/popups/ccuts.html

Comic Cuts was also the term used in The Andrew (The Royal Navy) for a seaman's record sheet - as in Cyril Tawney's Chicken on a Raft

Jimmy's (short for Jimmy the One = 1st Lieutenant)laughin' like a drain
Been lookin' at me Comic Cuts again
etc...

Back to the original request - there is a terrific version recorded by the late Johnny Doughty on 'Round Rye Bay for More' (an LP on Topic)

What'll we do with the herrin's head
We'll Make it into loaves of bread
Herrin' head, loaves of bread an' all such things

Of all the fish that's in the sea, the herrin' is the fish for me
Sing wack fa doodle die-doe
Wack fa doodle day.

Then it's cumulative to:

What'll we do with the herrin's guts
We'll make 'em into Comic cuts
Herrin's guts, Comic Cuts,
Herrin's tail, ships that sail
Herrin's back, fishin' smacks
Herrin's belly, jams an' jellies
Herrins fins , needles an' pins
Herrin's eyes , puddin's an' pies
Herrin's head loaves of bread
An' all such things
Of all the fish....etc...

sunshine and smiles
Dave    www.sunshinearts.co.uk


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Gulliver
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 02:25 PM

Scrump, it was sung by Noel Carroll, who was a regular in O'D's at that time.
He later joined up with Gerry Crilly and (I think) Seán Óg McKenna to form Rakish Paddies.

That was Christmas of the year I met a nice-looking French girl in East Berlin
at the World Youth Festival and she arrived in Dublin unannounced on a visit and managed
to lock herself in the mens' toilets in O'Dwyers, just across the road from O'D's. We were thrown
out of O'Dwyers and went across to O'D's where I heard this song. That would make it 1973.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 03:15 AM

The Ronnie Drew song that Scrump mentions above is likely similar to the song that you heard in O'Donoghue's

Gulliver, are you sure it wasn't Ronnie singing it on that occasion? What year would it be?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: EBarnacle
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 09:49 PM

Generally, around here, we go with

What'll we do with the Shadfish Tail?
and so forth based upon a version which is similar to Tim Jacques' version.

We generally get runs of shad in the spring, when they come up river to spawn. There is currently a moratorium on Hudson River shad fishing to allow the population to recover. Any shad and shad roe available in the stores is supposed to come from other river stocks.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: DannyC
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:10 PM

Gulliver,

The Ronnie Drew song that Scrump mentions above is likely similar to the song that you heard in O'Donoghue's.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Gulliver
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 02:43 PM

Years ago I heard a song sung in O'Donohues in Dublin that went:

There was an oul' object washed in on the tide
Half a mile long and half a mile wide.

chorus:
With me Johnnie sez she, me bonny, sez she,
One your leg, two your leg, throw your leg over me bonny sez she.

And what do you think we made out of its head...etc.
(goes through all the parts as in some of the songs listed above--the final few verses are unprintable).

Never came across this anywhere else...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Deckman
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 12:45 PM

And no one seems to have mentioned: "Taddies and Herring."

For me, there is NO better food than pickled herring, raw salmon, and Villi (villia). CHEERS, Bob


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 11:38 AM

Surprisingly (unless I missed it above) no-one seems to have mentioned the Dubliners' version of this (with Ronnie Drew on lead vocal). It was on their 1968 album Drinkin' & Courtin'.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Kevin L Rietmann
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 11:26 AM

I love this song, and here is another short recording of it, Seamus Ennis in 1951 recorded by Alan Lomax. The tune Seamus uses is similiar to Pretty Molly Brallaghan or the jig Maid in the Meadow (which Seamus called the Stone in the Field) or the reel the Green Fields of America. It's also on Topics Voice of the People Vol 14, with another melody - don't know which one is sung usually.


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Cuilionn
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 08:57 PM

'Tis grait tae revisit this threid-- Ah sing "Herrin's Hied" wi aa manner o audiences, frae bairnies tae elders, an ev'ryane seems tae love it! Ah lairnit ma vairsion aff Cilla Fisher's "Singing Kettle" recordings (Scottish children's music series) wi additional bits gaitherit alang the way. Ane o ma Scots Gaelic students addit a vairse in whilk the "herrin's teeth" mak a "Christmas wreath." Frichtenin thocht, aye?

Regairdin the vairsion set doon by Baring-Gould, here's a recordin for those whae'd like tae gie it a listen: "Dead Maid's Land: Traditional Songs from Devon & Cornwall from the collection of Sabine Baring-Gould" (WGS 292CD, copyricht 1998 WildGoose Studios, Wherwell, Hampshire, SP11 7JS).

--Cuilionn


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 12:21 PM

does anyone have the lyrics to Ian Campbell's version of theHerring Song - it's similar to those previously posted, but has an extra stanza on the end about "haveing done so well" with me jolly herring.

cheers

finbar


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 07:35 PM

It's Christmas Eve, and the Polish Sisterhood (my wife and her mother) are cooking up a storm in the kitchen. It's great to hear them laugh and enjoy each other's company.

We're having mushroom soup and home-made cheesecake, and I'm cooking up a pork roast to serve with my mother-in-law's applesauce. They sent me out in the storm this afternoon to buy pickled herring, which they say is an essential in a traditional Polish Christmas dinner. Then there's some sort of bread, oplatek, that looks like Catholic communion wafers - we break that and wish blessings on each other.

So, in honor of those herrings, I'd like to refresh this thread.

Blessings to you all!

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: GUEST,NSC
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 02:04 PM

Shields Folk

You are right of course.

I think its a case of familiarity breeds contempt as i sing the sing regularly and never miss out the chorus.

Ah well.

Part of the problem is being exiled from Geordieland. But life is very good here in Tipperary.

thanks for the correction


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 02:46 PM

I have now added a list of material relating to this song to the  Penguin: The Red Herring  thread.


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Shields Folk
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 01:37 PM

GUEST NSC, You missed out "how are you the day me hinny-o" from the end of the chorus of the Tyneside version.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE HARRIN'S HEED (trad Newcastle)
From: GUEST,NSC
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 07:33 AM

What about this Geordie version sung regularly in Newcastle

What'll wi dee wi' the harrin's heed,
We'll meck it inte loaves o' breed,
Harrin's heed, loaves o' breed
And aall manner o' things,
Of aall the fish that's in the sea,
The harrin' is the one for me.

What'll wi dee wi' the harrin's eyes,
Meck them inte mince pies.
Harrin's eyes mince pies,
Harrin's heed, loaves o' breed
And aall manner o' things,
Of aall the fish that's in the sea,
The harrin' is the one for me.

What'll wi dee wi' the harrin's fins,
Meck them inte needles and pins,
Harrin's fins, needles and pins,
Harrin's eyes mince pies,
Harrin's heed, loaves o' breed
And aall manner o' things,
Of aall the fish that's in the sea,
The harrin' is the one for me.

What'll wi dee wi' the harrin's back,
Meck it inte a lad caalled Jack,
Harrin's back, lad caalled Jack,
Harrin's fins, needles and pins,
Harrin's eyes mince pies,
Harrin's heed, loaves o' breed
And aall manner o' things,
Of aall the fish that's in the sea,
The harrin' is the one for me.

What'll wi dee wi' the harrin's belly,
Meck it inte a lass caalled Nelly.
Harrin's belly, lass caalled Nelly,
Harrins back, lad caalled Jack,
Harrin's fins, needles and pins,
Harrin's eyes mince pies,
Harrin's heed, loaves o' breed
And aall manner o' things,
Of aall the fish that's in the sea,
The harrin' is the one for me.

What'll wi dee wi' the harrin's tail,
we'll meck it inte a greet big sail.
Harrin's tail, greet big sail,
Harrin's belly, lass caalled Nelly,
Harrins back, lad caalled Jack,
Harrin's fins, needles and pins,
Harrin's eyes mince pies,
Harrin's heed, loaves o' breed
And aall manner o' things,
Of aall the fish that's in the sea,
The harrin' is the one for me.

A few more HTML line breaks added, and double spacing deleted. --JoeClone, 25-Jun-02.


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Hawker
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 05:18 AM

The Baring Gould collected version of this song is similar to those above, but has a sort of chorus which (from vague memory) goes:

Hark! Hark! and see how you do lie
And so do you as well as I
well! well! well and again
And I thinke I made well of my Jolly herring
Amazing how the same song has so many variants, Wonderful stuff!
Lucy


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 08:15 PM

I've just listened to it again and they went further than I thought - Lerwick and Stornoway to mention but a couple of far-flung plaices! Tattie B


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: GeorgeH
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 11:45 AM

Oh, missed this last time . . The "Fishgutters song" Tattie mentions sounds very much as if it, too, is from the Radio Ballad "Singing the Fishing".

G.


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: GeorgeH
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 11:43 AM

A few observations . .

1) The Liza Carthy version of the song I know from the Banddogs LP (see recent threads re; Dave Bulmer/CM, Nic Jones and Tony Rose . . I think it's been mentioned in it); I think Chris Coe (of Ryburn 3 Step - at Sidmouth this year - and formerly of Banddogs) still sings it also.

2) The definitive version of Shoals of Herring has to be the one from the Radio Ballad - which, remember, is now available on Topic CD.

3) I have a tape of a radio broadcast of MacColl/Seeger where Ewan boast of the fact that, since he wrote "Shoals of Herring", it has been collected back "from the tradition" a large number of times and in multiple languages. (Sorry, I can't remember the numbers, but Ewan could exagerate such things anyway . . )

4) By the account I have of Sam Larner's claim to have known the song all his life he was trying to "grope" Peggy's knees at the same time . . taking advantage of his wife's failing eyesight . .

G.


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 07:41 PM

And there's also the "Fishgutters' Song" all about the intrepid women who travelled the East Coast ports frae "Peterheid" to "Yermouth Toon" for the sole(groan!) purpose of gutting fish. On a CD by Stravaig. Tattie B


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Brían
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 11:09 PM

I have a transcription of this song as sung by Joe Heaney from the University of Washington. As a caveat, I admit that he may have got his version from Seamus Ennis. Also, I don't know if he assisted the transcription in any way.

In any case, the chorus is offered as:

Abair-a-linn, abair-a-linn

Say it to us, say it to us

Brían.


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Orac
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 09:20 AM

The conclusion to "Shoals of Herring" begins "Night and day we're faring" not "Night and day we're daring". Most of the recordings of this song made in the 60's have both the intro and the conclusion. Unfortunately they seem to get omitted these days which is a shame (probably due to ignorance) It is a much better song when sung as it was written.


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Alice
Date: 08 Jul 01 - 10:59 AM

Where's Bill Sables? He sang the herring song to us in my kitchen last year, as we all had kippered herring.


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Brían
Date: 08 Jul 01 - 07:06 AM

Great work, Malcolm. There is also a similar version with the same refrain in IRISH BALLADS AND SONGS OF THE SEA by James N. Healy. The melody used is BRUACH NA CARRAIGE BAINNE.

Brían.


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 08 Jul 01 - 06:18 AM

Thanks for the link to Eliza's message, which I hadn't seen, Malcolm.

Corrections made.

Garry


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 12:28 PM

Nearly as printed: I inadvertently added an "r" to the first thugamar.


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 12:25 PM

I've just been looking at George Petrie's Complete Collection of Irish Music (ed. C. S. Villiers, 1903) and happened to notice that number #502, We Brought the Summer With Us, carries the following text:

Of all the fish that's in the sea
The herring is king, the herring is king.
Sing thurgamur fein an samhra linn
'Tis we have brought the summer in
The storm is o'er 'tis calm again;
We're safe on shore from the raging main,
Sing thugamar fein an samhra linn,
'Tis we have brought the summer in.

Text transcribed as printed.  It would take very little to mutate the Gaelic phrase (of which the final line is more-or-less a translation) into aber-um-vane and aber-o-ling.

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Jun 01 - 01:55 PM

For Eliza's own take on the refrain, see  Eliza C Herring Song chorus


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 08 Jun 01 - 11:25 AM

About time I contributed my two cents worth. Here's one cent: the herring song; and here's the other: 70 cents.

:) Garry


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Mudlark
Date: 08 Jun 01 - 01:20 AM

The version that I sing (sounds like a variation of the first herring song in this thread) has a say and respond chorus: Singer 1: Why didn't you tell me so? singer 2: So I did, long ago! Singer 1: Thou lie! singer 2: Thou lie! Singers 1 and 2 together: Well, well everything. Do you think I've done well with my jolly herring.

The guts verse as I know it goes: What have I made of my old herring's guts? Forty bright women and fifty bright sluts. Wantons and women and everything! Do you think I've done well with my jolly herring?

Another verse I like is: What have I made w/my old herring's eyes? Forty jackdaws and fifty magpies. Larks and linnets and everything! Do you think I've done well...etc.

Mudlark


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 09:49 PM

True.  And Martin: no cricket song, I'm afraid.


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Anglo
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 06:05 PM

I think most things have been said already - the Aber o Lane (or whatever) version Eliza sings seems to come from Seamus Ennis. I don't think anyone has mentioned that there's a nice version of it on the Banddoggs album.


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 08:52 AM

The chorus has never been regarded as anything but nonsense, in Ireland.

Regards

p.s. There's a reference to a Chris Foster album called "Sting in the Tail" in an early entry in this thread. Anyone know if it has a song of that title - about cricket?


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 08:30 AM

Now we know, maybe?


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 08:08 AM

Whatever Eliza sings, it's Kinsale in the traditional versions of this variant.  The nonsense words may be Irish, and they may not; Eliza herself used to think that they might be Welsh.  Seamus Ennis -from whom Eliza's set may well derive- sang aber-um-vane and aber-o-ling, but he doesn't seems to have expressed an opinion as to the words' derivation or meaning.

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: GUEST,DaisyA
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 06:29 AM

Hooray, I know what the ????s are! It's Irish and it is (phonetically) "Sing ebero vain, sing ebero lin" I saw her do it live and she got the audience to join in with the Irish bits, but I can't remember what it means sorry. It's a great song, really hard to sing...

Daisy


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: GUEST,RZangpo2
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 03:01 AM

Kinsale? Surely it should be Kintail - that's what it sounds like to me.


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: paddyc
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 12:36 PM

The best Shoals of Herring version definetley has to be by Liam Clancy on "The Wild and Wasteful Ocean" cd.


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Abby Sale
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 10:06 AM

Barbara; Significantly slower but not, I think, half. It's a bit weird to pick up - the intro verse is sung by Ewan (it's easy to remember how to spell this if you alway remember to mispronounce it as ee-wan) and his styling of it is very different from Lloyd's at the end, even though they are clearly intended to be the same tune. Even though MacColl wrote it, I far prefer Lloyd's interpretation. So as not to give the song three tunes, I try to sing both first & last a la Lloyd.

I think you have to hear the original to get this. And that difference may be why the last is not usually sung.

BTW, this is a very strong statement for me, personally, as I no qualms about describing MacColl as the world's greatest-ever ballad singer. (With the possible exception, according to Lawless, of Sandy Paton.)


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Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Barbara
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 01:13 AM

Abby, thanks for the clarification, (I never spell Ewan's name right, either). Tell me, is that the verse I hear sung at one-half speed in some versions?
Blessings,
Barbara


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