mudcat.org: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2]


Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song

DigiTrad:
JOHN CHINAMAN, MY JO
THE CHINEE BUMBOATMAN


Related threads:
Req: Children's song -Chinaman came knocking (8)
Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man... (269)
Song Req: 'There was China Man...' (113)
Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man (63)
Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China (40)
Lyr Req: Heilan' King o' China (Miller & Campbell) (24)
(origins) Origins: Chink a Boo Man (21)
John the Chinaman (5)
Lyr Req: China Trade Song for 1st graders (10)
Lyr Req: Long John, Chineeman (7)


John M. 18 Jul 04 - 11:50 PM
Joe Offer 19 Jul 04 - 12:21 AM
John M. 19 Jul 04 - 12:56 AM
GUEST,Displaced Camelotian 19 Jul 04 - 10:35 AM
Metchosin 19 Jul 04 - 10:41 AM
Anglo 19 Jul 04 - 11:56 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 Jul 04 - 12:22 PM
GUEST,Displaced Camelotian 19 Jul 04 - 01:23 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 19 Jul 04 - 01:44 PM
Joe Offer 19 Jul 04 - 02:09 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 Jul 04 - 02:13 PM
Fliss 19 Jul 04 - 02:17 PM
GUEST 19 Jul 04 - 02:18 PM
Nigel Parsons 19 Jul 04 - 02:37 PM
GUEST 19 Jul 04 - 02:42 PM
Jim Dixon 20 Jul 04 - 10:07 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Jul 04 - 11:37 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Jul 04 - 11:57 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Jul 04 - 12:06 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Jul 04 - 02:58 PM
GUEST,Adam McNaughtan 25 Jul 04 - 01:34 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 25 Jul 04 - 02:01 PM
GUEST,Adam 25 Jul 04 - 05:11 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 25 Jul 04 - 05:54 PM
GUEST,Adam 26 Jul 04 - 05:54 AM
GUEST,weerover 26 Jul 04 - 06:03 AM
GUEST 26 Jul 04 - 10:30 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Jul 04 - 01:37 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 18 Sep 04 - 07:29 PM
GUEST,"dumpling "Norfolk. 29 Sep 04 - 12:22 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 29 Sep 04 - 02:34 PM
SINSULL 29 Sep 04 - 03:07 PM
Azizi 30 Sep 04 - 03:47 PM
GUEST 25 Jan 07 - 06:49 PM
GUEST 25 Jan 07 - 07:06 PM
Cluin 25 Jan 07 - 07:09 PM
Azizi 25 Jan 07 - 08:11 PM
GUEST,tony 05 May 08 - 12:30 AM
Jack Blandiver 05 May 08 - 04:07 AM
GUEST,Steve Gardham 05 May 08 - 06:42 PM
GUEST,Philip Barton 25 Jun 08 - 08:28 PM
Azizi 04 Jul 08 - 08:55 PM
GUEST,munshi 05 Nov 08 - 12:45 AM
GUEST,Dave F 20 Jan 09 - 09:46 AM
GUEST,Stephen 20 Jan 09 - 11:00 AM
GUEST,A proud Asian American 07 Apr 09 - 08:01 PM
Peace 07 Apr 09 - 08:05 PM
Joe Offer 07 Apr 09 - 08:24 PM
GUEST,Peace 07 Apr 09 - 08:34 PM
GUEST,Pinner7 25 Jul 09 - 02:25 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: ADD: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: John M.
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 11:50 PM

I did a field recording of an anonymous singer who called from Australia. He sang the following bawdy song

           Ching-Chung Chinaman  Size: 166KB  Time: 0:55

Does anyone else remember versions of this song (see lyrics below)? If yes, would you be willing to sing it for me? You can reach me at mudcat3.20.jpm21@neverbox.com.

I collect bawdy folksongs and if you know any bawdy songs I would like to record them and, if you like, I can make an anonymous recording.

Sincerely,

John Mehlberg
~
My bawdy songs, toasts and recitations website: www.immortalia.com

 

            CHING CHONG CHINAMAN

Chorus:

         Ching Chong Chinaman runs a brothel shop
         Him afraid, lose his trade, they all got the pox
         Now he broke, now we joke, while he shut his shop
         Ching Chong Chinaman, a lot of hot cock 

   Chinaman had twenty women working for him there
   Some root on the floor, some root on the chair
   Then one night they got stopped, Police'ee' man he come
   Saw what was going on and join in the fun

   Chinaman had torture room on the second floor
   Some liked to be whipped and chained by a whore
   And he's got a hay-bed and a water-bed too
   To ad that little extra to your screw

   This story may not seem very real to you
   If you're feeling down and out and you need a screw
   Go to China's place but when you get back
   Be sure that while you're there, you didn't get the JACK


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 12:21 AM

Hi, John - This Google Search will give you lots of versions of the "Ching Chong Chinaman" chant. I get the impression that it was mostly a playground chant - I haven't seen one as extensive as the one you posted.

Lingenfelter/Dwyer's Songs of the American West has many anti-Chinese songs, mostly "John Chinaman" songs.

Songs like this make me very uneasy - but I guess they're part of our history, and may serve to remind us that the "good old days" may not have been any better than the times we have now.

-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: John M.
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 12:56 AM

Yes, I did a google search before I posted. I am looking for others who know this as a SONG not just a chant or school yard rhyme. I wish to find other versions of this song and to confirm the tune used from other informants.

If you know Ching Chong Chinaman as a song, please contact me at mudcat3.20.jpm21@neverbox.com

If you are looking at this thread after two weeks the email will become invalid and you will have to type it out ( john AT mehlberg D-O-T com).

Sincerely,

John Mehlberg
~
My bawdy songs, toasts and recitations website: www.immortalia.com


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Displaced Camelotian
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 10:35 AM

Most unpleasant. You might like to know, however, that the language is very Australian, which suggests where it originated. Also, waterbeds became fashionable about 1970. Popular culture allusions to sadomasochistic fetishes seem to have begun in the mid to late 70s
and have proliferated since then.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Metchosin
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 10:41 AM

you've got to be kidding, why would anyone want to record racist crap like that?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Anglo
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 11:56 AM

This is a parody. The original song is from a musical, Chu Chin Chow, which enjoyed considerable success in London during WW1. As I recall the lyrics are about a Chinese laundry - the plot is based on a story from Scherezade. Since these days anything that refers to any sort of racial stereotype is offensive (simply defining a laundry as Chinese would get you into trouble) the words might be sonsidered rracist. At the time they were not. Unlike this parody.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 12:22 PM

Wonder why Guest says the language is very Australian. Don't see any particular clue.
The old playground chants (a typical one in Steinbeck's "Cannery Row") go back to the exclusion days if not to an earlier time when Chinese came to climb the Golden Mountain. "Ching-Chong" was recently used derisively by the basketballer Shaquil O'Neal (see link below) and seemingly is popular with black rappers.

This 'song,' however, seems forced and derivative. Guest noted its fairly recent vintage. It perhaps came from the black rappers.

Nikkeiview


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Displaced Camelotian
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 01:23 PM

"Hot cock," "rooting," and "jack," taken together, seem Australian to me. I suppose they could be British as well.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 01:44 PM

There was a playground song going around when I was a kid in Southern Wisconsin of Ching Chong Chinaman that seemed pretty dirty when I was 8 years old, but nothing as racy as this version. I remember all the words, but am content to let it fade out of memory.

And then of course there was "Two Irishmen men, two Irishmen, sitting in a ditch, one called the other a dirty son of a Peter Murphy, Peter Murphy.." And on it went, with the offensive word at the end of each line changed to the beginning word of the next line. I never thought it as racist, and other than the first line, it had nothing to do with any particular nationality..

As for the Chinaman song, I don't want to be any part of passing it on..

Jerry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:09 PM

There are three versions at The Online Dictionary of Playground Slang. Not very nice, but interesting.
-Joe Offer, who didn't talk like that or he'd get his mouth washed out-
    Ching Chong Chinaman sitting on the grass,
    Along came a bumblebee and stung him on his..
    Ask no questions, tell no lies,
    I saw a policeman doing up his...
    flies are a nuisance, bugs are even worse,
    And this is the end of my silly little verse.


    Ching chong chinaman went to milk a cow.
    Ching chong chinaman didn't know how.
    Ching chong chinaman pulled the wrong tit.
    Ching chong china man got covered in shit.



    Chin chin chinaman bought a little shop
    And all he sold was peppermint rock
    He wee'd in a bottle and called it pop
    Chin chin chinaman bought a little shop


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:13 PM

Digressing, but English slang has become pretty well universal wherever English is spoken. Hot cock is widespread (several meanings, from eager to the real stuff to the clap and others, rooting is a common mis-use of rutting (pigs do both), and it takes pages to cover all of the meanings of jack, from an insult to money to penis to heroin to gull- to whatever.

Although the doggeral reminded me of current use of ching-chong in rap, there is none of the rap form there. My remark was not correct.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Fliss
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:17 PM

This is what we used to chant in the playground in the 1950's in Shropshire.
    Chin Chin Chinaman bought a paper doll
    He washed it and dressed it and then it caught a cold
    He sent for the doctor
    The doctor couldnt come
    Because he had a pimple on his rum tum tum.
fliss


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:18 PM

"Hot cock" is a synonym for "nonsense" or "crap". "Jack" is a synonym for "pox".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:37 PM

One of the books of rugby songs from the 60s "Rugby Songs" or "Son of Rugby Songs" had (as far as I recall)
    Chin Chin Chinaman, strolling down the Strand
    Stony broke, wants a poke, penis in his hand
    Up comes 'Poxy Lilly', doesn't give a rap.
    Three days later Clap Clap Clap.

(ttto "I'm a little teapot" or similar)

Nigel


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:42 PM

The third and fourth verses may well be later additions. They don't include "pigeon English" like "him" and "policee-man".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 10:07 AM

The musical play "Chu Chin Chow," by Australian-born Oscar Asche (lyricist) and Frederic Norton (composer), opened in London in 1916 and ran for nearly 5 years. There were later productions in the US and Australia, but they were less successful. See PeoplePlay UK, Guide to the Musical Theatre, and National Library of Australia.

The Internet Movie Database (IMDb) lists 2 film versions made in 1923 (a silent musical?) and 1934.

I can't definitely identify any song that was the source of CHING CHONG CHINAMAN, but the most likely-sounding title is I AM CHU CHIN CHOW OF CHINA.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Lyr Add: CHING CHONG
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 11:37 AM

I still think 'Ching Chong' goes back before the 1916 musical "Chu Chin Chow." Still looking, but found this sheet music from c. 1917.

CHING CHONG
Words J. Will Callahan, Music Lee S. Roberts

Way out in old San Fran
There is a Chinaman
Who's known for miles around,
Wonderful place he keeps
Down where he eats and sleeps
Way underneath the ground;
Each night the festive chinks
Come there to wink and blink,
And dream away the hours,
They sing this funny song
While they are born along
On beds of poppy flow'rs.

Chorus:
Ching Chong, Oh Mister Ching Chong,
You're the King of Chinatown,
Ching Chong, I love your sing-song
When you have turned the lights all down;
Ching Chong, just let me swing 'long
Thru the realms of drowsy-land,
Dreaming while stars are beaming
Oh Mister Ching Chong, sing-song man.

When you're in Frisco Town
Don't fail to stop around
And see this Ching Chong man,
Wonderful things you'll learn
Down where the torches burn
He'll show you all he can;
Then when the time is ripe
He'll fill your little pipe
And then a light he'll bring,
Gently you'll float away
Far out on Slumber Bay,
And softly you will sing.

Pub. by Lee S. Roberts, Fine Arts Bldg., Chicago, c. 1917 (undated); copy at Bancroft Library, Univ. California, Berkeley. Cover shows man with pigtail decorating Chinese lanterns.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 11:57 AM

Forgot- Source of sheet music, American Memory, http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/flipomatic/cic/brk5431
Ching Chong

A Mr. P. Chong ran a restaurant in Honolulu many years ago. The name used to be common among Chinese, but I think some changed to another family name.

"Ching A Ling A Loo" by Max Hoffman was popular and issued as sheet music in 1901.

"Ching Chow Chung" by Carl Hess was published in San Francisco as sheet music in 1873.
No lyrics were published with the music.
This could be among the earliest mentions of the name. At American Memory.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 12:06 PM

Ching cartoon, Harper's Weekly, 1894:
Ching


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 02:58 PM

"Oh Ching Chong opium, taffy on a stick," first line of chorus of "The Chinee Laundryman," 1880, by Frank Dumont, pub. in Philadelphia by Chas. F. Escher Jr. and sung by Charles Backus of the San Francisco Minstrels.
Sheet music at Levy Sheet Music Collection. Very difficult to read.
The Chinee Laundryman

This puts "Ching Chong" firmly in the 19th century.

It is extremely doubtful that "Chu Chin Chow" contributed anything to the 'Ching Chong' rhymes and songs.
It was based on Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves, by its book composer, Australian Oscar Asche. Two or three (more?) films followed (1923, USA, MGM) and in England. It was a very popular musical in the USA and performed by amateur groups, including students in high school.

It has remained a cult musical, and a DVD is available from House of Opera, with the original music by Norton.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Adam McNaughtan
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:34 PM

The original song comes from Lionel Monckton's "The Geisha Girl". The chorus was:
    Chin Chin Chinaman, welly welly sad!
    Me aflaid allee trade welly welly bad;
    No-ee joke, blokee bloke, makee shutee shop;
    Chin Chin Chinaman, chop chop chop.

One Glasgow playground version went:
    Chin Chin Chinaman feeling very ill;
    Walkee walkee down the street, buy a Beecham's pill;
    Walkee walke home again, go to bed at night,
    Wake up in the morning with his shirt all shite.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:01 PM

Hi, guest Adam. The Ching Chung Chinaman expression is older than Monckton's "Geisha Girl" as well as "Chu Chin Chow." Lionel Monckton was producing musicals in the period 1898-1920. Moreover your words are a parody (unless it was some undocumented piece he did while at Oxford).

It has to be older than 1873 (Ching Chow Chung sheet music) and the 1880 ("The Chinee Laundryman" sheet music, with its chorus of Ching Chong opium).

I would like to find even older references, but it already seems certain that the expression started with the first Ching and Chong males who came to America.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Adam
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 05:11 PM

Sorry, Q.
I wasn't trying to provide an origin for the expression, just for John Mehlberg's song which echoes the Geisha Girl version in text, and presumably in melody.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 05:54 PM

Can't find original Geisha Girl. Do you have the original lyrics? Be nice to have them both.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Adam
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 05:54 AM

Another apology. I was quoting from memory of a production seen 48 years ago. The Geisha was by Sidney Jones; there was only one song by Monckton (not Chin Chin Chinaman). The complete libretto can be found at www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/fraser.charlton/edwardian.html. The Chinaman song is in Act II.
Adam


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 06:03 AM

I'm sure Adam is too modest to mention it, but he sings the Glasgow version above as part of a medley of Glasgow songs on his excellent album "wordswordswords". His Glasgow version of the story of Hamlet on the same is on its own worth the price of the album.

wr.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 10:30 AM

"Add that little extra" sounds extremely modern. Adspeak.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 01:37 PM

Guest Adam, thanks for the Edwardian site. Some amusing material!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 07:29 PM

Another playground rhyme - circa 1960 - western USA....something along the lines of:
    Charlie Chan was a helluva man
    Lined ten whores up against the wall
    F__cked them, f__cked them, f__cked them all
    F__cked them all till his dick turned red
    Went to the doctor and the doctor said,
    "Sorry, Charlie but your dick is dead."
    "Can't be, can't be, can't be true!"
    "Sorry, Charlie but your balls are too."
Sincerely,
Gargoyle


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,"dumpling "Norfolk.
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 12:22 PM

interesting comments---

I'm trying to locate the source of a song which i learnt at my Grandmother's knee back in the 40's ( she was born in the 1880's)
The first line of the lyrics start:

   My name is Ling (ching?) I come from China, ickle lickle lupships you see there.

      Any ideas? I would love to solve this mystery before my memory fails completely!!
      Many thanks. "dumpling"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 02:34 PM

Could have been a children's play song. Very difficult to find them; collectors mostly ignored those based on racial characteristics.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 03:07 PM

I must have had a sheltered childhood. We chanted:
Ching ching Chinaman sittin' on a fence
Trying to make a dollar out of sixteen cents.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 03:47 PM

Just for the record...

There's a children's rhyme Chitty Chitty Bang Bang/sittin on a fence trying to make a dollar out of 15 {65; 85} cents...

There's also a children's rhyme that begins Shimmy Shimmy China/ I know karate.... That rhyme also has the line "sittin on the fence/trying to make a dollar out of 85 cents..."

SINSULL, I guess inflation can be blamed for the change from 16 cents.

I'm not sure if these two rhymes I referenced have anything to do with Ching Chong Chinaman.

Probably not...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 06:49 PM

My recollection of this song begins with a verse:
    Do you little children know from where we get the tea?
    It comes all from Chinaland, far across the sea
    Packed in bales of merchandise by little China men
    Sent across the ocean from Sen Yen

    Chin chin Chinaman velly velly sad
    He's aflaid of the tlade velly velly bad
    Tlade bloke stony bloke have to shutee shop
    Chin chin Chinaman, chop, chop, chop


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 07:06 PM

On a slighty different "slant" (no pun intended) there was a record by George Formby, one of his stories about Mr. Woo (the Chinese Laundry man) it's called "Mr Woo's An Air Raid Warden Now"...and with regard to the blackout, it tells us that "If you've got a chink in your window/There'll be another one at your door"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 07:09 PM

The one I remember was:

Chinky Chinky Chinaman, sitting on a fence
Tried to make a dollar out of sixteen cents



An observation on the industrious spirit of the immigrant who came to a new country to better his life?

Yeah, right...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 08:11 PM

I started to share a contemporary children's rhyme that is very much like the one Cluin posted when it occurred to me that I had posted that rhyme on a thread like this before - thread.cfm?threadid=89534 Origin of 'Chink-a-boo Man'.
Here's the post that I wrote to that thread on March 11, 2006. Note that within the text of that post I refer to a comment that was posted on that thread by Sinsull as well as a comment that was posted on that thread by GUEST,J C. Those posts are also missing, and there are probably additional comments that are missing.

**

Subject: RE: Origins: Chink a Boo Man
From: Azizi - PM
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 11:59 AM

Sinsull and others,

I am interested in collecting examples of contemporary children's rhymes. I am also interested in documenting -whenever possible-the sources for those rhymes, and what those rhymes mean to the children reciting them.

I would paraphrase GUEST,J C 's comment that "there [may be] a basic difference in intent between the phrases you quote and those deliberately designed to malign and demean a whole group of people".

It appears to me that alot of times children reciting a rhyme don't know or care what the words mean. They are more "in to" the rhythm of the words and the performance activity {handclapping, jumping rope, foot stomping, etc} that goes with the rhyme.

But as to Sinsull's question would I be interested in collecting a rhyme with the words
"Ching Ching Chinamen
Sittin' on a fence
Trying to make a dollar out fifteen cents."

My answer is yes. My goal is to collect & document rhymes for the historical record, and as a means of gathering insight into the world of children. Therefore, some rhymes that I collect don't conform with my moral standards, but that isn't the point.

That said, I try to include commentary along with the rhyme example so that information is preserved about what the rhyme means/meant to the performers of that rhyme. That's why I believe that demographical information {including age, gender, race and.or ethnicity is important.

I also try to add information about the possible source of the rhyme, and the rhyme's possible cultural meaning [i.e. for "Chink Chink Chinaman" that the rhyme teases Chinese people and other people with slanted eyes].

I'm very interested in how children's rhymes change over time and among different groups of people. For example, in 1997 I collected this handclap rhyme from elementary school aged African American girls & boys in Pittsburgh, PA area that is similar to "Chink Chink Chinaman":

"Shimmy Shimmy China
Sittin on a fence
tryin to make a dollar
outta 65 cents.
He missed. He missed.
He missed like this; like this. like this.

-snip-

In this example "Shimmy Shimmy China" is used as a nickname of a boy or man who is sitting on a fence. Even with the use of the name "China", there is no allusion to Chinese people. And certainly no racial teasing is intended or perceived.

All this to say, that we adults have to be careful not to read our issues into kid's creative works.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,tony
Date: 05 May 08 - 12:30 AM

Dad used to chant/sing a chinaman song in the 1940's, some of which included

"This old chinaman he went to sea" -----
and had a chorus of
"Chic chic alora"

does this evoke any memories or additional lines?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 May 08 - 04:07 AM

A variant of this rhyme was the first piece of Folk Lore I ever collected in the field, or rather the playground, on my first day at Shiremoor Infants School, Northumberland, in September 1966.

My source, as I recall, was classmate Peter Best, who impressed me with delivery of his recitation as much as by its content, in which, by way of a variation on subsequent versions, said Ching Chong got a mouthful of shit.

Needless to say I reported this to my mother when I home later that afternoon, giving her as studied a recitation as my meagre talents were capable of, and for my efforts was rewarded with a mouthful of soap and water.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Steve Gardham
Date: 05 May 08 - 06:42 PM

Similar version to one posted above.
Hull 1950s street rhyme
    Chinky Chinky Chinaman bought a penny doll,
    Washed it, dressed it, called it Pretty Poll,
    Sent for the doctor, doctor couldn't come,
    Because he had a pimple on his bum, bum, bum.
I may have confused 2 rhymes here. It was along time ago and senility is creeping in.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Philip Barton
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 08:28 PM

I was taught this song by my grandmother 57 years ago. The version that she taught me was this.
    Ching Chang Chinaman
    velly velly sad.
    Me aflaid alee trade
    velly velly bad
    Noee joke, stoney bloke, makee shutee shop.
    Ching Chang Chinaman
    Chop, chop, chop.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 08:55 PM

After learning more about these Chinaman rhymes and also learning about the continued use of the Ching Chong phrase to taunt Asian people, I realize that I need to retract my previous comments to this thread about being interested in collecting these rhymes.

I admit to having been so focused on finding rhyme sources and connections between rhymes that I disregarded or minimized the highly offensive, mocking words in these rhymes. Even if the intent of the person reciting them isn't meant to insult, these rhymes have been and still are being used to insult Asians, and I don't want to be any party to that.

For the record, I'm sorry and for my words and mindset. I sincerely apologize to all those who read my previous comments.

What others do is their decision. I am writing this for me and for the record of this archived thread.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,munshi
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 12:45 AM

thank you all for posting such strange and interesing 'poems'.

of interest to me is oscar asche (australian) who actually went to china in his youth (perhaps 1890s). his musical chu chin chow
made him - and unmade him. (most successful comedy - to
bankrupt.)

azizi - we must not be so upset about the tauting. these rhymes come from history. we are remembering verses that were nasty - but now are probably out of date.

want to point out that in 1900 there were parallel themes: one was racism and british colony. the other was 'orientalism' and selling of asian concepts... which was very popular.

see youtube for the song 'mera naam chin chin choo'.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Dave F
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 09:46 AM

I remember a cleaner version of this song from an Alladin pantomime in the mid 1950's. It was sung by Wishee Washee the laundryman and went something like:
    Chinaman he make-ee money all-ee life-ee long
    He do wash-ee wash-ee, sometime he wash-ee wong.
    When he try to steal-ee collar, police-ee man-ee come,
    He get fine-ee five-ee dollar, plenty much sum!

    Chin chin chinaman, velly velly sad,
    High trade, low trade, velly velly bad.
    No-ee joke, broke-ee broke, had to shut-ee shop
    Chin chin chinaman, chop chop chop.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Stephen
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 11:00 AM

Oh great another thread in the name of 'research' bringing up songs which should have been left behind in the playground long ago.

An analogy that comes to mind is those WW2 re-enactment societies that dress up at weekends in SS uniforms. Purely for historical accuracy of course.

Mudcats policy regarding these threads demean the whole site. The thread title is ugly and so are most of the lyrics in it. Its even been given the dignity of being above the line.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,A proud Asian American
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 08:01 PM

Why would anyone want to continue a tradition such as this, a tradition that degrades an entire race of people? For what point and purpose? How would you feel if your people were subjected to such vile degradation, disrespect and hatred?

You really should think things through before you decide to pursue a topic.

And anyone who has ever uttered such filthy words for fun and amusement needs to do some serious soul-searching.

I mean come on, Philip Barton, your GRANDMOTHER taught you that song?
And thank you Azizi for being more considerate towards your fellow human being. I understand your basic intent was not to offend but to merely research the roots of a rhyme...but unless you plan on creating something positive out of this, ie shed light on the plight of Asian immigrants in Western society, then keeping alive such hateful words is not the right thing to do.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Peace
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 08:05 PM

ApAA--I agree with you and Azizi. Every damned time I see this thread title it pisses me off.

Bruce Murdoch


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 08:24 PM

Yeah, I have to admit that I cringe every time I see this thread come up. I thought it came up more often than just 47 times, but I was wrong - it's the thread called Once in China There Lived a Great Man, which has 156 posts. I delete messages that are obviously posted just to cause trouble, but not if they give any appearance of having historic roots. It bothers me that some of the people who stop by to post, are people that really love these songs, and they get nostalgic over them.

We baby boomers did learn such songs from our grandmothers - and they thought the songs were cute. I think that in the 1950's, even grandmothers had an inkling of an idea that such songs were a bit naughty, but I'm sure they didn't see them as hateful or bigoted.

It's an interesting aspect of folklore that it's the "unprintable" things that are oftentimes the purest aspect of folklore, untainted by the niceties of copyrights and royalties and attributions and such. But into the 1950's, there were children's cartoons that expressed what we would consider to be racist attitudes.

No, I wouldn't recommend passing these things on to your grandchildren, but they definitely have folkloric and historical interest.

-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 08:34 PM

I agree, Joe. I cringe, too.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Pinner7
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 02:25 PM

I remmber most of the words learned this in school in 6th grade
    Ching loo china baoy went to buy a kite,
    came a gust of wind and blew it out of sight
    ching-a-ling, ching-a-ling said ching loo...
    never mind I don't need a kite???????
this is driving me nuts I was in 6th grade about 60 years ago


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 17 January 2:46 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.