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BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed

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folkfan73 05 Jun 04 - 07:59 PM
Ebbie 05 Jun 04 - 09:53 PM
GUEST 05 Jun 04 - 10:09 PM
dianavan 05 Jun 04 - 10:30 PM
harpmaker 05 Jun 04 - 11:07 PM
Peace 05 Jun 04 - 11:21 PM
harpmaker 05 Jun 04 - 11:39 PM
GUEST,TIA lost the damn cookie again 05 Jun 04 - 11:41 PM
Peace 06 Jun 04 - 12:36 AM
GUEST 06 Jun 04 - 02:56 AM
George Papavgeris 06 Jun 04 - 03:28 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 06 Jun 04 - 06:11 AM
GUEST,el ted's alter ego 06 Jun 04 - 08:07 AM
kendall 06 Jun 04 - 08:34 AM
GUEST,John O'Lennaine 06 Jun 04 - 09:42 AM
Clinton Hammond 06 Jun 04 - 10:30 AM
Ebbie 06 Jun 04 - 11:08 AM
GUEST 06 Jun 04 - 11:08 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 06 Jun 04 - 12:35 PM
Joe Offer 06 Jun 04 - 12:44 PM
Ebbie 06 Jun 04 - 12:49 PM
Don Firth 06 Jun 04 - 01:39 PM
Bat Goddess 06 Jun 04 - 03:15 PM
dianavan 06 Jun 04 - 04:09 PM
Ebbie 06 Jun 04 - 04:20 PM
SINSULL 06 Jun 04 - 05:25 PM
Greg F. 06 Jun 04 - 06:00 PM
dianavan 06 Jun 04 - 06:18 PM
GUEST,Reagan: In The Top 10 List Of Presidents 06 Jun 04 - 06:24 PM
Peace 06 Jun 04 - 06:28 PM
kendall 06 Jun 04 - 06:44 PM
Cluin 06 Jun 04 - 07:26 PM
kendall 06 Jun 04 - 07:44 PM
Once Famous 06 Jun 04 - 07:51 PM
maire-aine 06 Jun 04 - 08:26 PM
GUEST,John O'Lennaine 06 Jun 04 - 08:32 PM
Greg F. 06 Jun 04 - 08:38 PM
Don Firth 06 Jun 04 - 08:56 PM
Amos 06 Jun 04 - 09:26 PM
bbc 06 Jun 04 - 09:37 PM
pdq 06 Jun 04 - 09:48 PM
Peace 06 Jun 04 - 10:40 PM
Amergin 06 Jun 04 - 10:48 PM
Blackcatter 06 Jun 04 - 10:51 PM
CarolC 06 Jun 04 - 10:53 PM
Peace 06 Jun 04 - 10:53 PM
Bill D 06 Jun 04 - 11:38 PM
GUEST,freda 06 Jun 04 - 11:58 PM
GUEST,freda 07 Jun 04 - 12:07 AM
Ebbie 07 Jun 04 - 02:47 AM
Ellenpoly 07 Jun 04 - 04:09 AM
kendall 07 Jun 04 - 04:42 AM
kendall 07 Jun 04 - 06:39 AM
Bat Goddess 07 Jun 04 - 07:46 AM
Greg F. 07 Jun 04 - 07:46 AM
GUEST 07 Jun 04 - 08:50 AM
GUEST 07 Jun 04 - 09:00 AM
ced2 07 Jun 04 - 09:08 AM
GUEST 07 Jun 04 - 09:24 AM
GUEST,Larry K 07 Jun 04 - 11:19 AM
GUEST,bbc at work 07 Jun 04 - 11:26 AM
Ebbie 07 Jun 04 - 11:49 AM
CarolC 07 Jun 04 - 11:53 AM
M.Ted 07 Jun 04 - 12:05 PM
Don Firth 07 Jun 04 - 12:10 PM
Don Firth 07 Jun 04 - 12:19 PM
Blackcatter 07 Jun 04 - 12:24 PM
Amos 07 Jun 04 - 12:32 PM
kendall 07 Jun 04 - 12:37 PM
GUEST 07 Jun 04 - 12:39 PM
Blackcatter 07 Jun 04 - 12:40 PM
Strollin' Johnny 07 Jun 04 - 12:49 PM
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CarolC 07 Jun 04 - 01:17 PM
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GUEST, yet another. 07 Jun 04 - 03:46 PM
Peace 07 Jun 04 - 04:15 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 07 Jun 04 - 04:46 PM
Bill D 07 Jun 04 - 05:09 PM
DougR 07 Jun 04 - 05:14 PM
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Amos 07 Jun 04 - 09:51 PM
Blackcatter 07 Jun 04 - 10:18 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 07 Jun 04 - 10:47 PM
Greg F. 07 Jun 04 - 11:51 PM
GUEST,John O'Lennaine 08 Jun 04 - 01:49 AM
DougR 08 Jun 04 - 01:58 AM
GUEST,John O"Lennaine 08 Jun 04 - 02:03 AM
Ebbie 08 Jun 04 - 02:06 AM
Strollin' Johnny 08 Jun 04 - 08:33 AM
Kim C 08 Jun 04 - 11:25 AM
GUEST,BIll Kennedy 08 Jun 04 - 01:12 PM
Kim C 08 Jun 04 - 01:17 PM
GUEST,Bill Kennedy 08 Jun 04 - 02:00 PM
Kim C 08 Jun 04 - 03:03 PM
GUEST,Bill Kennedy 08 Jun 04 - 03:19 PM
GUEST 08 Jun 04 - 04:20 PM
Kim C 08 Jun 04 - 04:26 PM
Kim C 08 Jun 04 - 04:32 PM
InOBU 08 Jun 04 - 04:44 PM
Bill D 08 Jun 04 - 04:46 PM
Once Famous 08 Jun 04 - 05:14 PM
folkfan73 08 Jun 04 - 05:16 PM
Once Famous 08 Jun 04 - 05:17 PM
GUEST,Proud to be 'far left' 08 Jun 04 - 05:38 PM
dianavan 08 Jun 04 - 08:10 PM
darkriver 09 Jun 04 - 01:11 AM
Greg F. 09 Jun 04 - 07:53 AM
beardedbruce 09 Jun 04 - 07:58 AM
Greg F. 09 Jun 04 - 10:30 AM
Amos 09 Jun 04 - 11:04 AM
GUEST,Pre-emptive coward 09 Jun 04 - 11:14 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 09 Jun 04 - 11:21 AM
GUEST,Larry K 09 Jun 04 - 11:23 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 09 Jun 04 - 11:33 AM
Amos 09 Jun 04 - 11:41 AM
kendall 09 Jun 04 - 11:49 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 09 Jun 04 - 11:57 AM
Greg F. 09 Jun 04 - 12:09 PM
Amos 09 Jun 04 - 12:14 PM
Richard Bridge 09 Jun 04 - 12:29 PM
Once Famous 09 Jun 04 - 05:35 PM
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Once Famous 09 Jun 04 - 05:49 PM
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GUEST, 09 Jun 04 - 06:04 PM
Greg F. 09 Jun 04 - 06:26 PM
GUEST 09 Jun 04 - 08:37 PM
Bobert 09 Jun 04 - 09:01 PM
dianavan 09 Jun 04 - 09:14 PM
Bobert 09 Jun 04 - 09:27 PM
GUEST,Proud to be 'far left' 09 Jun 04 - 10:50 PM
InOBU 10 Jun 04 - 08:00 AM
Richard Bridge 10 Jun 04 - 07:00 PM
Kim C 10 Jun 04 - 09:10 PM
Once Famous 10 Jun 04 - 10:04 PM
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DougR 11 Jun 04 - 02:53 PM
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Bobert 12 Jun 04 - 09:06 AM
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Subject: BS: Ronald Reagon - Sadly Missed
From: folkfan73
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 07:59 PM

I just been to CNN website on Saturday night, and I heard the shocking news that Ronald Reagon (the great actor and politician) has died on 5th June 2004 with Nancy and his children at his bedside. I read the article on him and it said that he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease for ten years prior to his death. He will be sadly missed.

After I read the article, I switched my terrestrial UK TV on to BBC1 to hear that his death made world news, as I suspected.

Then, I saw a link to read a five part biography on the CNN website, and here is the link....

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2004/reagan/index.html

I still need to go back to this website to read Ronald Reagon's speeches, to continue my admiration and review of his life, but will leave reading the speeches on another day as it is well past my bedtime, so Good night!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagon - Sadly Missed
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 09:53 PM

Get real.

Sorry for the loss you feel but if you take a clear look at the man and the damage he accomplished in his lifetime you will see why it's hard for me to understand how anyone could feel admiration for him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagon - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 10:09 PM

Iran contra, a huge deficit, taking credit for the fall of communism, a BS war on drugs, teaching us all about what "spin doctors" can do. Yes, the list of his accomplishments goes on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagon - Sadly Missed
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 10:30 PM

You'd think that if someone really admired Ronald Reagan, they could at least spell his name right.

This poster has got to be joking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagon - Sadly Missed
From: harpmaker
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 11:07 PM

el ted
       ok, you have a go, lets see what you wanky left wingers can do. Respect The man , he tried. You didn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagon - Sadly Missed
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 11:21 PM

Well, I don't agree with that. I think all people try to improve the world. On average, most of us don't become rich or famous enough to be presidents or kings, etc. But we all try to the extent of our abilities. Left or right wingers.

I am usually left of center on most things, but I find myself being to the right of many folks on issues like the death penalty and certain wars.

That said, he was a mediocre president and Reaganomics was devastating to poor people. Helped the rich, though. Yes, he helped rid Germany of the Berlin Wall, but basically the Eastern Bloc was 'spent' into oblivion, and that was done by taxpayers, willingly or unwillingly.

I said a short prayer for his family. However, unlike Donne, I am not of the opinion that ANY man's death diminishes me. I don't feel that his did. Many people will feel differently. I am not happy he died, but neither am I sad about it.

Bruce M


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagon - Sadly Missed
From: harpmaker
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 11:39 PM

el ted
       my words were few and small. revisit. A good man who tried has passed on, what have you done?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagon - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,TIA lost the damn cookie again
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 11:41 PM

I've always compared Reagan to my own Grandfather - would have trusted my daughters with him for the weekend, and they'd all have a great time, but not a wise President.

Clinton made a better President, but I'll stay home that weekend, thanks.

I'll miss and respect the man/person, even as I disapprove of the former President.

RIP and condolences to his loved ones.

TIA


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagon - Sadly Missed
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 12:36 AM

I too am a good man who has tried, and I haven't yet passed on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 02:56 AM

We should all pray for Ray-Gun. Now he is dead he will spend the rest of eternity suffering the torments of hell for the enormous crimes this monster has committed: supporting death squads in El salvador, etc. He was an amiable fellow. So what. Hitler was charming.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 03:28 AM

I believe he was well intentioned, if intellectually limited. But then, he paid for that when he was alive, being the butt of so many jokes. As el ted says, he tried.

His efforts were sometimes misdirected, and I certainly did not approve of many of his actions. But I never hated him. He was too funny for that. And his wish had been to do good - as he understood it. That's a lot more than one can say about GWB.

Neither a great politician, nor a great actor. Just a normal human being, with failings and weaknesses, often misdirected by those around him with stronger personalities than his own (Nancy was one). He was given a job that he was not up to - so what? Many of us are. But I will not demonise him. Just a bloke. Rest easy, Ronald.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 06:11 AM

Harpmaker (and #El Greko), I can't see any contribution from el ted in this thread. Has a post been airburshed out?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,el ted's alter ego
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 08:07 AM

Bedtime for Bonzo was his finest hour. Of course the chimp was a better actor and would have made a better president.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: kendall
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 08:34 AM

Sadly missed? Not by me, or anyone else who saw through him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 09:42 AM

Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, Malcolm Frazer...

Not a time in world political history I would eagerly revisit.
Between them they brought a lot of rain into a lot of lives, and not much sunshine.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 10:30 AM

Sadly Missed??

Only with every bullet so far... but now I can stop trying


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 11:08 AM

Fionn, from other threads I gather that el ted is on the computer at harpmaker's.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 11:08 AM

The world is a much better place without him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 12:35 PM

Only the good die young


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 12:44 PM

Of the major political figures of the second half of the 20th century, there were three I have despised most intensely: Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, and Pope John Paul II. All three were well-meaning, self-righteous, idealistic people in their day, I suppose - but that made them all the more dangerous.

One down, two to go.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 12:49 PM

Ron Olesko, that reminds me of what I eventually came to realize. Both sides of our family tend to live very long lives. I told my brother, If it is true that people don't die until they have learned what they came to earth to learn, it appears that we are thicker headed than most.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 01:39 PM

". . . and I heard the shocking news . . ."

I fail to see how someone can be shocked at the death of a man who is 93 years old, sick, and suffering from Alzheimers. It was expected, immanent for some time now. His death was a mercy to both him and his family.

HERE is a short, informative, and unbiased biography of Reagan. Reagan said on at least one occasion that he was dedicated to reversing FDR's New Deal programs because they had cost his father his job back in the Thirties. History tells a somewhat different story. His father was a shoe salesman and, it seems, he was, if not an alcoholic, at least a heavy drinker. He lost several jobs, more because of Jim Beam than FDR. He was eventually given a job working on a WPA project (note the second pargraph in the article I linked to). Maybe when Reagan formulated his political policies, his memory was already starting to fail.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 03:15 PM

Well the current resident (since he wasn't actually elected president) makes Reagan look good. But at least Ronnie could read. (He certainly never had an original thought; he only spoke the words put into his mouth by his handlers.)

And Reagan made Nixon look good.

The only thing that trickled down . . . well it certainly wasn't prosperity, just the poor (and the middle classes) getting pissed on. (Wish more voters had gotten pissed OFF and voted accordingly.)

As Thomas Jefferson once said, "I regret for my country when I reflect that God is just."

I just heard some young twit on the radio who hadn't even been born during his presidency saying what a good president he was. Arghhh!

Linn


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 04:09 PM

When Reagan was elected I knew that it was the beginning of actors in the role of presidency. It was obvious that the American public was more interested in image than ability. That trend has continued. The power behind the oval office continues to operate much the same way today. Its all in the visual and the ability to project an image the majority of Americans want to see. It has nothing to do with ability or integrity. As long as you can talk the talk and walk the line...

What was Reagan's role in the McCarthy affair?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 04:20 PM

Hail Dianavan, the Omniscient!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 05:25 PM

Sadly missed? Not by me. And probably not by the thousands of mentally ill patients who found themselves labelled "capable of living on their own". They were - in cardbord boxes over subway grates.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 06:00 PM

Well intentioned? Get real.

The man was bordeline mentally ill and suffering from senile dementia while he was in the White House. Our first incapacitated, sitting president since Wilson- although Dumbya for sheer incompetence comes damn close. Using "he tried" logic, we should all feel sorry for the passing of Pol Pot- he tried, too, according to his lights. How about some sympathy for poor old Augosto Pinochet?

Yet more disgusting and demoralizing than the incredible harm this man and his cronies did are the legions of people who still, persist in making excuses for him. He was a miserable piece of work, and his life diminished thousands- possibly millions by now.

And yes, as president of the Screen Actors' Guild dear old slimy Ronnie shopped all sorts of folks to McCarthy to further his career.

Good riddance to the smiling, lying miserable S.O.B. The world is a better and a sweeter place without him.

With any amount of luck Lady Maggie, Kissinger and a few others will follow him to Hell in short order.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 06:18 PM

Thanks, Ebbie - Now if I can convince my family, friends and co-workers of that, my life will be much sweeter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,Reagan: In The Top 10 List Of Presidents
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 06:24 PM

According to John McCain and Chris Matthews, Reagan will make the top 10 list of the best presidents. At this rate, Bush will make that list! Horrors!

I must be missing something here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 06:28 PM

Greg F: Very well said. dianavan, I'd forgot his sellout of "Reds" when that piece of garbage, McCarthy, was looking for commies under beds. Good on yer.

Other than he was something of an actor, what DID he ever do that was so good that people (other than his family and friends) will miss him? I'd like to hear about that. Anyone?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: kendall
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 06:44 PM

The man was an actor. Not a very good actor, but good enough to fool a lot of people.-


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 07:26 PM

RR saved his future wife's reputation. Got Nancy de-blacklisted in the McCarthy days.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: kendall
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 07:44 PM

Sure, he was a democrat in those days.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 07:51 PM

What I keep thinking about is that the two elections that he won were I believe the largest landslide wins in anyone's favor.

What does that say to you? Without being sarcastic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: maire-aine
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 08:26 PM

Not missed by me, not by a longshot. But I do feel a great deal of sympathy and compassion for his wife. I spent five years taking care of my mother who developed Alzheimer's, so I have a sense of what the disease can do to the family. I hope she takes the opportunity to go forward with her own life.

Maryanne


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 08:32 PM

Martin -
It says to me that the American constitution desperately needs an "idiot exclusion" clause in its chapter on the presidency, to protect the American people from themselves.

Not to mention the rest of the world. The Americans like to blow hard about how the're the biggest and best, and in most cases the're right, but they keep electing idiots to the most powerful and potentially damaging job in the world.

Who's next? Ronald McDonald?

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 08:38 PM

What does that say to you?

Sez to me that the average U.S. Voter is easily conned by no more than a smile and a handshake from a third-rate, B-movie actor and that "Ronnie" was able to project his delusions and the fantasy world he lived in onto the U.S. populace.

Unbelievably, as Reagan and his programs have since been shown to be a cheat and a sham - when not simply illegal or criminal- large numbers of people are still in thrall to the specious nonsense he spouted.

Also says a lot about the current level of support for the BuShite Junta. And the current level of self-delusion.

The "Great Prestidigitator" indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 08:56 PM

Thomas Jefferson talked about the necessity of an informed electorate. The fact that for many years now, American presidents have been elected by an uninformed electorate shows how right Jefferson was.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 09:26 PM

Ronald Reagan said one really smart thing in his career, and although he didn't open it, he did approve its inclusion in his speech: "Mister Gorbachev, take down this wall."

I did not think highly of his economics or his term in office. But I prefer to give credit where it is due.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: bbc
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 09:37 PM

Number me among those who mourn his passing & respect him as a man & a president. I think this thread was intended as an obit notice. It makes me sad that people feel the need to use it to bash a dead man.

respectfully,

bbc


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: pdq
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 09:48 PM

A great man

walks the earth.

Blood-sucking flies

bite his flesh.


When he dies,

filthy maggots come out.

They eat his flesh.


In tomorrow's light,

he will still be

a great man.


They will still be

maggots,

and blood-sucking flies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 10:40 PM

That just says we're a buch of bastards. It does NOT prove he was a great man.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Amergin
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 10:48 PM

No it just says that many see him for the scumbag he truly was...


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Blackcatter
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 10:51 PM

Martin - the reason he won the first of the elections is that he and his cronies conspired to keep the hostages in Iran - that was the undoing of Carter. Could Reagan have won the election without it? Probably, but we'll never know because Regan did something not only illegal but a crime against those hostages and their families.

All you who like him, usually love his "there you tax and spend Democrats go again" but in his 8 years he not only raised taxes he spent far more than those taxes brought in so that we were massively in debt. Of course the Nazi in the office right now is doing the same thing, but real Republicans are so screwed up they don't even know how to fight what they're against.

I'm with Joe above - John Paul II, Thatcher and Reagan are all crap.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 10:53 PM

He made people feel good by telling them what they wanted to hear... whether it was true or not. I guess to some people that makes him a great man.

And as far as that business about taking down that wall is concerned, I think that the Reagan administration made a big mistake with that one. I think that if Gorbachev had been able to make the needed changes gradually, as he wanted to do, the former Soviet Union wouldn't be in the absolutely appalling shape it's in right now, with organized crime running the show and many people in worse shape now than what they experienced under the Socialist regime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 10:53 PM

True, Amergin. Shouldn't have spoken for others. Let me amend the above post. That just says I'm a bastard, but it doesn't prove he was a great man.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 11:38 PM

well, I say this for Ronnie....he told us directly and specifically, as Gov. what he would do if elected. As Gov. of California and in weekly radio broadcasts for 2-3 years, he swore he'd stop this, enforce that..etc...all those things noted above. He also oversaw the dismantling of programs in places like EPA that had taken years to build up, and which have never recovered. EPA's auspicious beginnings were ground under Reagan's heel. I suppose there is something to be said for THAT sort of 'honesty'.

As noted, he did accomplish a bit of disarmament by schmoozing Gorbachev, but it might well have gone better with someone else. I simply could NOT swallow all the "I forgot....I was out of the loop" etc. about Iran-Contra.

...??does anyone else remember him replying to a question about being elected so late in life and subject to the infirmities of aging..." If I feel myself getting senile, I'll be sure & tell you?"?...... he was only 8-9 years late in making the announcement....


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,freda
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 11:58 PM

This is what a former Australian Prime Minister has just written about him.

A genuine pleasure in people; June 7, 2004; Sydney Morning Herald

Bob Hawke, Prime Minister from 1983 to 1991, recalls the president's charm.

In my five visits to the United States during Ronald Reagan's presidency, I can't recall meeting anyone from either side of politics who did not genuinely like him. A lot of them had pretty violent descriptions for his policies, but no one could resist his warmth and affability.

On my first visit, in 1983, my host on Capitol Hill was the Speaker of the House of Representatives, the late Tip O'Neill. When I said I had just come from lunch with the president, Tip said: "There's never been a more conservative man in the White House, but you can't help liking the son of a bitch, can you?"

Reagan was the first foreign head of state to send congratulations when I became prime minister in March 1983 and he issued an immediate invitation for me to visit Washington. Some of those who travelled with me were amazed at what happened during the formal talks. When I raised some questions about current economic conditions in the United States, Reagan started shuffling through a number of cards he was holding. He found the one he was looking for, read out a couple of sentences and then turned to his Treasury Secretary, Donald Regan.
"Donald, this is your quarter, perhaps you'd like to take up Bob's points." The next subject was foreign policy, and he did the same thing with George Shultz.

I found it refreshing to deal with a head of state who did not pretend to be an expert or someone who always wanted to be centre stage. He was also a very good listener. He was not a pretentious man, and he knew how to recognise and rely on able people around him.

In contrast to the situation today, he also knew how to maintain very warm relations with Australia without the need for agreement in every area. I remember on one visit he was very keen for Australia to support the Star Wars program. I told him I was not persuaded by his arguments. He knew I was travelling on to New York and asked if he could send a few of his generals to continue the discussion.

The generals did not persuade me either, but there were no hard feelings when the answer was again no. It did not adversely affect the relationship at all, which demonstrates that you can have a very close relationship with the United States without having to agree with every proposition they make. Reagan never pretended to be a great intellectual, but he knew what the important issues were.

He knew when he came to office that the Soviet Union presented a very significant threat and he let them know they had a real opponent on their hands. We owe him a great deal for his role in ending the Cold War. I will remember his great warmth and his ease with everyone he met. He took genuine pleasure in people. He was always keen to get formal meetings over, so that we could go to lunch and swap a few jokes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,freda
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 12:07 AM

and here's another comment of interest..

Joker with a genius for getting his timing wrong
By David Dale, Sydney Morning Hherald; June 7, 2004

Ronald Reagan was a collector of jokes, with a genius for telling them at the wrong moment. During my term as the Herald's New York correspondent in the mid-1980s my hobby was collecting Reaganisms.
Interviewed on radio talkback, he identified one caller's accent as Italian-American, and proceeded: "How do you tell the Italians at a cockfight? They're the ones who bet on the duck. And how do you tell if the Mafia's involved? The duck wins." The complaints poured in. According to Roger Stone, Mr Reagan's campaign manager at the time: "Italian politicians in our camp were calling to get off the bandwagon. No-one actually resigned, but many of them were mad enough to."

At an economic summit in Venice he proved he was not anti-Italian by warming up the press corps thus: "A gondolier was singing O Sole Mio and God looked down and wondered what would happen if he removed a quarter of his brain. The gondolier sang O Sole, O Sole. Then God removed another quarter of his brain, and he sang O So, O So. Then God removed three quarters of his brain, and he started singing When Irish Eyes Are Smiling." That was greeted with coolness, but the president pointed out that his own ancestry was Irish.

He had the CIA compiling dossiers of Russian jokes, and would insert them randomly into speeches, to the despair of his handlers: "A Russian goes to buy a car at the official car lot and is told it will be delivered in 10 years. 'Would that be in the morning or the afternoon?' he asks. 'Ten years from now, what difference does it make?' the salesman asks. 'Well,' says the buyer, 'The plumber's coming in the morning.' "

Asked what he was going to do about the trebling of the budget deficit during his first term, Mr Reagan responded: "Why should I do anything about the deficit? It's big enough to look after itself".

My favourite was testing the microphone before a radio address with this announcement: "This is the president. We have declared Russia illegal. The bombing starts in five minutes."


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 02:47 AM

He came across as a folksy, affable man but he was the divorced and very remote father of estranged children. He was capable of some of the most calculating and coldest hearted policies any president has ever pursued.

I always felt he had trouble keeping reality separate from fantasy. I remember in one press conference he was asked by a reporter something like: Mr. President, in Lebanon (I think) why don't you do such and so? The president looked at him a moment and drawled, Well, you know- we did that in (in a movie he made) and you know what? It didn't work.

There was some gentle laughter but it didn't appear that anyone, including the president, was speaking in fun.

I agree that he could be charming- and it seems that charm is all that many Americans require from our leaders.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 04:09 AM

I'm in complete agreement with Joe Offer on this one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: kendall
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 04:42 AM

How in the name of intelligence can anyone admire this lying phony? So he's dead' so what?
Here I go again. Some time ago I posed this question about Bush, and I now pose it about Raygun. Tell us why we should admire this creep.
He ran for president with a promise to balance the budget, yet in 8 years he never even SUBMITTED a balanced budget. He spent more money than all previous presidents combined. His policies dumped thousands of mental patients out onto the streets, right here in Portland they tore down all of the affordable housing and put all those "hand to mouth" people onto the streets, he halted all funding for AIDS research, when in Germany he visited the graves of SS officers at Bittburg, he lied through his teeth about Iran-Contra, he lied through his teeth about arms for hostages, tried to throw his pet dog, Oliver North, to the wolves, surrounded himself with the likes of Adm. Poindexter and Sec. of the Interior, Watt, went union busting on a grand scale, and those were his GOOD points.
Ok Reagan lovers, talk to me.
bbc, the floor is yours.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: kendall
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 06:39 AM

Furthermore, the price of EVERYTHING doubled during his administration.
Well, not quite everything, garage door openers stayed about the same.
I don't know about you, but my income sure as hell didn't double.
The man was a third rate actor who was able to fool a hell of a lot of people who don't think very deeply.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 07:46 AM

I'm in complete agreement with Kendall on this. Actually, Kendall was being fairly polite and restrained.

Linn


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 07:46 AM

Oh, OK. I see now. He was an affable asshole.

That makes all the crooked, scummy, petty and miserable things he and his administration did OK. Shame Pol Pot didn't know how to tell a joke; things could have been different for him.

There. Got my head right now.

Thanks!

Greg


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 08:50 AM

"What I keep thinking about is that the two elections that he won were I believe the largest landslide wins in anyone's favor.

What does that say to you?"

That the Nixon Republican's "Southern strategy" had taken hold, and alienated enough voters in other parts of the country to make them not vote. While it is true that when he ran for president, there was a bump in the number of voters over non-presidential election years, it is widely accepted that those voters were Democrats who had been abstaining because of disenchantment with the liberalization of the Democratic party.

The numbers can be seen at the Federal Election Commission's website here:

http://www.fec.gov/pages/htmlto5.htm

I'm sure Martin Gibson and the other Reagan lovers will also be disappointed to know that voter turnout for both Reagan elections was lower than the Bush/Clinton election, which had the highest voter turnout since 1972.

So I guess that puts the lie to the whole "Reagan was our most popular president" bullshit, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 09:00 AM

Here is a link to an interesting article about voter turnout and abstention from Noam Chomsky, written post-Y2K election:

http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/zmag/feb01chomsky.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: ced2
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 09:08 AM

Sadly missed? Indeed it was sad that any assassin's bullet missed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 09:24 AM

folkfan73, please tell us you are trolling and taking the piss, he helped that facist we had Margaret Thatcher to get many people killed and maimed. Fine individuals indeed excellent examples to our children and our childrens children, get real or up your medication...


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 11:19 AM

Before reading this thread, I predicted that 9 out of 10 comments would be negative to Reagan.    How sadly predictable.   Yet the American people seem to know better.   In a recent Time Magazine poll, the american public voted Reagan as the best president in history.   Now who is out of touch?

I generally laugh when people try to explain that the fall of communism would have happened anyway and that Reagan had nothing to do it.    Let's not give Edison credit for the light bulb because someone else would have discovered it anyway.   However, I did read a new one today which still amazes me.   The assertion by Carol C. that defeating communism was a mistake because it lead to a lousy economy in Russia.    My guess is that people in Poland and Eastern Europe would not agree with Carol C. as they preferred communist rule and the murder of millions and millions of people.   I have to admit, I never thought of that angle before.

But that is not what pisses liberals off about Reagan.   It really wasn't his politics, or his charm, or his budget deficit, or even Iran Contra.   What really pisses liberals off about Reagan was his belief in America and how he made people proud to be Americans again.   That is something that liberals will never forgive him for.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,bbc at work
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 11:26 AM

Kendall,

You seem to have missed my point. I don't think this thread was intended as a forum for bashing & I won't participate in it, to attack or to defend. IMHO, life's too short for that level of negativism.

bbc


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 11:49 AM

Guest/Larry K, I think you are correct in saying that 9 out of 10 comments on Reagan by 'liberals' are negative. On the other hand, out of 6 or so 'conservatives' on the Mudcat, 100 % extoll Reagan's virtues. So just who is being predictable?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 11:53 AM

The assertion by Carol C. that defeating communism was a mistake because it lead to a lousy economy in Russia.    My guess is that people in Poland and Eastern Europe would not agree with Carol C. as they preferred communist rule and the murder of millions and millions of people.   I have to admit, I never thought of that angle before.

You're misquoting me, Larry K. Or at least, you're trying to insert a different meaning into what I said, than the one I intended.

I am not saying that the people of the former Soviet Union prefer/preferred communist rule, and I most certainly am not saying they preferred the murder of millions and millions of people. You are the only one who is saying that.

Toward the END of the Socialist regime, it was already pretty obvious that democracy was coming and socialism was on its way out in the Soviet Union. Gorbachev knew that in order for the country to have any stability and any viability as a democracy, the transition needed to happen slowly. And this has proved to be true. There is no real democracy in what is now the former Soviet Union. There is only a particularly vicious form of criminally organized kleptocracy, and this is precisely because of the way in which the transition from the Socialist regime to the present system was implemented. The reason given by the US for wanting to see the end of the Soviet Union was humanitarian concern for the people of the region, and for stability and safety from the Soviet Union's nuclear arsenal.

But the people of the former Soviet Union are suffering every bit as much under the present system as they were under the system as it was during Gorbachev's time in power, if not more so, and there is no stability with regard to nuclear weapons. The breakup of the Soviet Union and the lack of jobs and the lack of access to the basic necessities of life has caused a big problem for people who want to keep nuclear technology and nuclear material out of the hands of terrorists, because desperate people are willing to sell these things to the highest bidders.

It would have been much smarter to have let Gorbachev make the needed changes gradually so that the Soviet Union could have become a real democracy instead of the festering pit of organized crime that it has become.

Or maybe people like Larry K just don't think very highly of Democracy in general, and prefer systems in which the most corrupt and ruthless people, who don't give a shit about humanitarian concerns, get to run the show.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 12:05 PM

Guest, you failed to point out that Martin"Wrong as Usual" Gibson, was, once again, wrong, as usual.
Reagan's first election was by 50.7% of the vote, certainly a victory, but not a landslide by anyone's definition.

Even his big win, in 1984(!) by 58%, was beat by both Lyndon Johnson, who got more than 60% in 1964, and Nixon, who got more than 60% in 1972--What does that say to you?

For the record, the biggest landslide by a President was James Monroe, who won in both 1816 and 1820 with 99% of the votes--

And, for what it's worth, I disagree with Kendall, I thought he was quite a good actor--


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 12:10 PM

"In a recent Time Magazine poll, the American public voted Reagan as the best president in history.   Now who is out of touch?"

Let's put it this way: 5,999,999,999 people say that the world is flat. One person says it's a globe. Does that mean that the one person is "out of touch"?

The next question should have been "Popular with whom?" Truth is not determined by consensus.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 12:19 PM

Let me clarify: polls of this kind usually involve asking a sample of about 3,000 and then extrapolating. It's not at all unusual or difficult to a) be horribly wrong unintentionally; b) deliberately cobble the poll to get a desired result--as many a political pollster knows.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Blackcatter
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 12:24 PM

Let's not give Edison credit for the light bulb because someone else would have discovered it anyway.

Talk about ignorance. Edison was the head of a team of men and women who developed the first useful lightbulb. By no means did he do it himself and he never gave his team credit on the work they did.

One other thing we tend to forget - while our "current pretender" avoided Vietnam by screwing around, Reagan blew off WWII because he could as a hack actor. And don't say he was a bit old to serve. My dad was the same age as Reagan and served in the Navy from 42-46, even though he had really poor eyesight and a 6 year old daughter who's mother had died 2 years before or Rheumatic Fever.

Once again Reagan was a piece of crap early on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 12:32 PM

What really pisses liberals off about Reagan was his belief in America and how he made people proud to be Americans again.

I am a liberal. I have never been anything other than proud to be an American. It has always been my conviction that America represented the greatest hope for a liberal world (meaning tolerant and fostering freedom). Please don't be stupid enough to think that the word "liberal" has any meaning other than those relating to freedom.



The only things that undermine that pride are the ravages of warmongering, illiteracy, anti-humanism and imperialism demonstrated by Bush fils.

Reagan commited a lot of stupid things but I have always been proud of the way he dealt with Gorby. I am sorry Gorby's own power base waned so suddenly. Reagan was lucky to have him on the stage -- if Russia had been led by a stupider man, Reagan's job would have been a lot tougher.

Go suck a rock.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: kendall
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 12:37 PM

bbc, you may be right, but I'd be glad to start another thread apart from this one. Would that be more to your liking?

I'm not going to name names, but someone here is so full of "IT" his eyes must be brown. I am a liberal and I love my country. I served in the armed forces and have a medal to prove it. Furthermore, I'd love to compare my military record with Bush's. It's every bit as illustrious.
Too many of you Bushites are unable to distinguish between loyalty to the USA and loyalty to resident bush. That lying phony coward has gotten us into a hell of a mess and his real reason is VENDETTA.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 12:39 PM

I didn't like him. Why do some Americans think socialism and democracy are mutually exclusive, and has anyone told the China communism was defeated?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Blackcatter
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 12:40 PM

Was/is Reagan a popular president - sure. The same way Britney Spears is a popular singer and Wheel of Fortune is a popular TV show - since when does popular automatically mean good?

A "popular" notion in the U.S. is that New Mexico is actually part of Mexico. Doesn't make it true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 12:49 PM

GUEST - You don't know Folkfan73. I do. If you knew him you would know that your last comments are a sickening disgrace. I hope, one evening, to encounter you in a dark alley, so that I can tear your head off and piss down your neck. Unfortunately you're a cowardly bastard who hasn't even got the balls to identify him/her self, so sadly I'll never have the chance.
Johnny :0(


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 01:02 PM

bbc, there is a separate obit thread.

Larry K, I have no doubt that the reason why people here, as in many places right now, are bitching about Reagan IS because of his policies. To those of Americans to whom policies matter more than popularity, it is a no brainer.

If you love your country, you don't destroy it's government welfare system, bust it's unions, impoverish it's working and middle classes, dismantle entire cabinet level agencies like HUD, feed the military industrial complex by approving dangerous projects and defense systems (like Star Wars) that don't work, and waste the taxpayers money.

It doesn't mean you avoid military service because you can make government propaganda films instead. It doesn't mean you participate in witch hunts and destroy the careers and lives of your colleagues whom you dislike, or their politics.

There was not much decent about this man, and frankly, 9 out of 10 of us aren't going to be polite about his indecency and lack of personal integrity just because he died.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 01:03 PM

Strollin' Johnny -- I am the Guest who just posted between kendall and Blackcatter and I'm sure I didn't ask for that vitriolic infantile outburst. If you knew me you wouldn't be so 'brave' in your threats to meet me in a dark alley. People like you are the reason I don't id myself, you nutter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 01:17 PM

I am sorry Gorby's own power base waned so suddenly.

Amos, I think we can thank the Reagan administration and the way it carried out its policies and agendas with regard to the Soviet Union and its government, for the sudden waning of Gorby's power base.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 01:50 PM

I am not welll enough informed to make a judgement on that, Carol. I have always felt the workings of the USSR were much more complicated than any brain could comprehend!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 02:08 PM

07 Jun 04 - 01:03 PM, you obviously have not been meant by SJ's post, 07 Jun 04 - 09:24 AM has been meant.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 02:39 PM

The far left liberal mind is a true embarrassment in this thread.

Total hypocrisy.

Glad people are dead and waiting for others like Thatcher and the Pope to go next makes me so glad I am not one of you and that your base of power is so stunted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: DougR
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 03:19 PM

Interesting to see how the comments on Ronald Reagan, as a president, posted here (Save bbc's and a mighty few others)contrast so vividly with those of world leaders as reported in the daily newspapers. Even Gorbachef referred to him as a "great president."

Of course those world leaders did not have the advantage of being born with such infallible insight as did the "lefties" on the Mudcat.

Most commentators I have heard state the Franklin Roosevelt and Ronal Reagan will go down in history as the two greatest presidents in the 20th Century. I am sure they would be disabused of that opinion were they to read the comments posted in this thread by such learned liberal writers.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST, yet another.
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 03:46 PM

DougR ... those people get paid for their plattitudes, people here are just exercising their constitutional right to have an opinion i.e. just saying what's in their hearts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 04:15 PM

DougR: Ofetn, when a leader dies, he or she is lauded as the greatest thing since sliced bread. As GUEST, yet another said, they get paid for their platitudes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 04:46 PM

I do agree with Martin that it is rather hypocritical for those of us who proclaim to be "liberals" to wish death on anyone. If we oppose war, oppose the death penalty and agree with the necessity of abortions then it is rather unbecoming to enjoy someones passing.   I will admit I made a flip remark earlier that "only the good die young", but I meant no harm. I apologize if it seemed insensitive.

It should also be noted that there are also stories about Republicans who held parties when FDR passed away.
   
That said, as others have already pointed out, we do have the right to present the opposing view.   If the media were being honest, they would remember that Reagan was not universally loved. Conservatives love to point out a supposed flaw in John Kerry's having contridactory stances, but Reagan was a candidate who campaigned against big government and then went about expanding the military and government during his terms in office.   Commentators note his "touch for the common man" but overlook his handling of unions and how his "booming economy" left a huge debt. His "Star Wars" defense system never worked but yet there are those that credit it with helping to bring down the Soviet Union. "Iran Contragate" plagued his second term, yet the media bascially gave him a pass on his involvement.

There are many ISSUES that people took exception to back when Reagan was in office.   Now that he is gone, the media is painting a picture of a universally loved president.   I will agree that he was one of the most popular presidents of the 20th century, but there was some STRONG disagreement with his policies and style - then and now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 05:09 PM

I am a liberal....I don't 'wish' death on anyone, but I sure DO wish many Americans had enough sense to see that "affable fool" does not equal "great president"...It has been pointed out over & over here what a travesty the man was in almost every important way, but those who simple wanted a congenial conservative in the Oval Office ignore the damage Ronnie did thru his vapid blundering!....and obviously, those folks learned a valuable lesson from Ronnie...it simple ain't necessary to think too much to get by. We even have Rush Limbaugh to reinforce that attitude for them every day!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: DougR
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 05:14 PM

I agree, Ron. Reagan did not walk on water.

I also fully agree with your first paragraph Ron. As I have often pointed out, many "liberal thinking" people post messages on this forum that a "true" liberal would never write. Some postings are about as vicious as one could get, and usually due to the fact that there is a difference of opinion. Hypocrocy in spades.

And I would remind the poster who stated that the posters who were so critical of Ronald Reagan had a right to his/her opinion that that adage works both ways. Freedom of speech applies to all viewpoints, not just liberal ones.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 05:16 PM

Indeed. The "Great Communicator" was generally acknowledged in diplomatic and political circles to be "a very nice man" but not a particularly bright, insughtful, or competent one when it came to actual policy. I am a dyed in the wool liberal, but am also a human being, and so I'm sorry for the suffering he and his family have undergone due to his illness, but the fact remains that the Reagan '80s ruined our economy and it took a good decade to redress the balance (after which we got GW in a rigged election, thus guaranteeing us at least 4 years of mindless international hostilities and semi-literate rhetoric from the Oval Office; fancy a move to Canada, anyone??).

Wonder how "Mommmy's" doing?

D


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Blackcatter
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 05:33 PM

I've never said I was a liberal.

Do I wish death on some people - sure to - mass murderers or those that facilitate mass murder deserve it, as far as I'm concerned. Thatcher and the Pope are both guilty of that in roundabout ways.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 06:07 PM

Hey, Martin-aren't you going to acknowledge your mistake? You are big on name calling, and holding people to account for what they say, but bad on facts--embarassingly bad on facts--


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: darkriver
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 06:46 PM

Here's a lovely obituary for the man:

http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/printer_8675.shtml

Regards,

doug


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 06:47 PM

Well said, BillD, as always.

Dianavan said Its all in the visual and the ability to project an image the majority of Americans want to see. It has nothing to do with ability or integrity.

In the case of Clinton it had everything to do with actual ability, imo.

Bedtime for Bonzo, finally. The only good I can say is Nancy has now beocme a champion of stem cell research.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 06:54 PM

According to ABC Nightly News, Reagan was no more popular than Clinton. Both averaged around 57% approval ratings while president.

World leaders are calling him a great president because that is what they say when a foreign leader dies. It neither represents their or their people's true feelings. Reagan was a very unpopular leader on the world stage.

Because cable news and talk radio runs 24/7 shit about Reagan claiming he was a great president also doesn't mean much. They are hyping the hell out of the story beyond all reasonable proportion, because it boosts their ratings for awhile.

I also find the suggestion that everyone should say nice things about Reagan because he died bullshit. Phoniness isn't becoming, regardless of the circumstances. This man was VERY old, lived a privleged life at the expense of millions he helped impoverish. We should dance on his grave.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: folkfan73
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 07:02 PM

bbc - thank you! You are right, This thread was meant as an orbitiuary, and I wished that those who used my thread to give negative messages on Ronald had put it on a separate thread, and keep this thread as a tribute, an opportunity to give condolences to Ronald Reagon's family, and an opportunity for all who liked him as a president, and actor, to give tribute messages, or even poems. Please keep this thread as a tribute to the positive and good things that Ronald Reagon did for America, as a president and what he did for the world, as an actor. I personally haven't seen his acting, but if I get a chance, I will watch him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 07:04 PM

Talk about ignorance. Edison was the head of a team of men and women who developed the first useful lightbulb.

Err- sorry, but no. The Englishman James Swan invented the first practical electric light bulb. More evidence of Yanks taking credit where not deserved.

Best,

Greg


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: bbc
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 07:17 PM

No, Kendall, I won't be responding in another thread. I've said all I want to say.

GUEST, if that other thread, labeled "Obit" is the one you are referring to, it certainly doesn't dignify the name. Have you read it, other than the prefix? It is at least as much of a bashing thread as this one & I certainly would not post to it.

folkfan 73, you're welcome. Enough said.

bbc


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 08:03 PM

I hadn't thought of Reagan from one year's end to the next -- he was entirely absent from the public picture, and has been pretty much for the last ten years. Why, therefore, mark him up as sadly missed? I honestly will not notice the difference in my life caused by his passing.

I did admire his dealings with Gorby, though.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: kendall
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 08:27 PM

bbc, I knew you wouldn't respond in any thread. Believe it or not, I'm not looking for a row, I do want to know why Reagan was held up as a great president, because he most certainly was not.

"I did not attend the funeral, but I did send a letter of approval". (Mark Twain)


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: InOBU
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 09:35 PM

Dear Amos... I also did not wish to enter this fray, he's dead, and well there is a bit of finality about that - I don't like what he did in life, but I don't hold grudges, it was nice his kids were there when he died... BUT Approved of how he dealt with Gobichev?????????
Geeze ol' skin! Gorbichev pleaded for ecconomic help while Mr. Reagan backed Yeltzin, the founder of the Rusian criminocracy at the expence of a reforming communist government, leading to a disolution of systems all over eastern Europe returning the place to medi-evil wars and attempts at genocide. Some times it is better to put windows and doors in walls before you go tearing them down... feel better that there are missing ex-soviet nukes floating around in the total moral breakdown of the post colectivist world... ? I don't!
Cheersm'dears,
RIP
Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 09:51 PM

Well, ya know, Larry, I may have slept through that part of the deal...I was awful involved in my own life at the time and was not paying as much attention as I should have.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Blackcatter
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 10:18 PM

folkfan73 - you don't even know how t ospell the man's name - why should we listen to you at all?

Greg F. - sorry about that, I've never heard about that - if you're right, that's wonderful, but it doesn't change the sentiment of my statement. Edison did not invent the lightbulb. I'll look around for more information about your assertion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 10:47 PM

Greg F - you are wrong as well. Neither Swan or Edison truly "invented" the lighbulb. The first practical lightbulb was invented by a German working in New York City named Henricg Globel about 10 years before either Swan or Edison. He never patented his invention, but Edison used his idea of carbon filaments to make the first long-lasting bulb. Swan had the first patent and he did sue Edison and won.

In addition to Swan, Globel and Edison, the idea of electric lights was worked on for nearly 50 years before they came along. Many inventors from England, France, Russia, the U.S. and Canada contributed to the process of the invention. In fact, Edison bought the work from two Canadian inventors to use in his design.

Sorry for the thread drift, but just as it is impossible to give Reagan all the credit for the fall of the Soviet Union, you can't give complete credit to Edison or Swan either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 11:51 PM

Blackcatter- excuse my multiple typos- brain only partiaslly in gear..

You want to look up Joseph Swann & the carbon filament lamp.

Enjoy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 01:49 AM

Leonado da Vinci left drawings of round clear orbs with little squiggly loops inside them and straight yellow lines radiating outwards from them in all directions ...

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: DougR
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 01:58 AM

Greg F.: partisally? Hmm. Er, ah, ok.

Guest who started this thread: good luck.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,John O"Lennaine
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 02:03 AM

Apologies for the thread drift. By way of rectifying the situation, I believe there is, on Da Vinci's chest in his coffin, a piece of parchment with a message in invisible ink in mirror writing in Sanskrit, what is believe to translate as "Reagan - Antichrist".

But that's just heresay.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 02:06 AM

http://www.mysteriesofcanada.com/Ontario/first_electric_light_bulb.htm

"Edison always claimed, "If I didn't develop the incandescent light bulb, then I didn't develop anything."   For the record, this is the chronology of light bulb development as listed in :

"1809 - Humphry Davy, an English chemist, invented the first electric light. Davy connected two wires to a battery and attached a charcoal strip between the other ends of the wires. The charged carbon glowed making the first arc lamp.

"1820 - Warren De la Rue enclosed a platinum coil in an evacuated tube and passed an electric current through it. His lamp design was worked but the cost of the precious metal platinum made this an impossible invention for wide-spread use.

"1835 - James Bowman Lindsay demonstrated constant electric lighting system using a prototype light bulb.

1850 - Edward Shepard invented an electrical incandescent arc lamp using a charcoal filament. Joseph Wilson Swan started working with carbonized paper filaments the same year.

"1854 - Henricg Globel, a German watchmaker, invented the first true light bulb. He used a carbonized bamboo filament placed inside a glass bulb.

"1875 - Henry Woodward and Matthew Evans patented a light bulb.

1878 - Sir Joseph Wilson Swan (1828-1914), an English physicist, was the first person to invent a practical and longer-lasting electric light bulb (13.5 hours). Swan used a carbon fiber filament derived from cotton.

"1879 - Thomas Alva Edison invented a carbon filament that burned for forty hours. Edison placed his filament in an oxygenless bulb. (Edison evolved his designs for the light bulb based on the 1875 patent he purchased from inventors, Henry Woodward and Matthew Evans.)

"1880 - Edison continued to improved his light bulb until it could last for over 1200 hours using a bamboo-derived filament. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 08:33 AM

Wolfgang - thanks for clearing that up - the second unidentified guest posted whilst I was telling the first unidentified guest off for his rudeness to Folkfan73, and obviously assumed I meant him/her without reading the earlier posts.

'Second unidentified guest' - I'm not a nutter at all, but I am a guy who doesn't appreciate unidentified guests, flamers and trolls, like 'First unidentified guest', who come in and make extremely offensive personal remarks against people they don't know, for instance "Get real or up your medication" with its inference of some kind of mental problems. That sort of comment would probably be very hurtful if, for instance, the recipient happened to actually be on medication, and I hope you'll agree that even people on medication have a right to express an opinion without having that kind of crap thrown at them. My tirade wasn't directed at you, but at the previous unidentified guest - which shows how difficult you anonymous people make it for us to identify who we're talking to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 11:25 AM

Whether or not you cared for him as a President, Ronald Reagan was still a human being who was much loved by his family and friends. Show a little respect, for cryin out loud - be the tolerant, kind, compassionate people you so often claim to be. If not for him, at least for his family.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,BIll Kennedy
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 01:12 PM

Kim C - there is that old 'do unto others', law of karma, kind of thing, I saw no compassion and tolerance from the son of a bitch through his entire life, nor from Nancy. (his kids are not being criticised here, they didn't choose him, or even vote for him as far as I know, maybe they did), but he gets what he deserves..doesn't deserve my respect for he hasn't earned it, but in fact has repeatedly earned my disrespect. I can only second most of what the other catters have had to say, though might add the auld Scottish expression ' a bit more stink in the earth, though less on't'


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 01:17 PM

Bill, it's easy to be compassionate to people you like. The greatest rewards come from showing compassion and mercy to the people you don't like.

So did you know Ronald Reagan for all of his 93 years?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 02:00 PM

Kim - his policies are public record, they are what are being recalled in this thread, and as the person responsible for them he is accountable. the 'if you can't say anything nice' or 'how about a little respect' phrases often trotted out in such situations are the cheapest, most insincere forms of censorship, and often the most effective, because who wants to be thought of as 'not very nice'? But it is censorship nonetheless, and I for one am not afraid to speak my mind.

It's not as if everywhere else in the media you turn there aren't ridiculously glowing tributes to this 'wonderful, affable, what a sense of humor, optimistic, all round great guy'. All those things he may have been, but so what? His record speaks for itself, and as someone else has already remarked, Hitler enjoyed a good joke, so we overlook everything else? and no, I'm not drawing parallels between the two, Reagan was no Hitler. Reagan couldn't paint and never hung wallpaper as far as I know, but he harmed real people and the government and the society and that should not be forgotten. maybe forgiven, for we are compassionate, but NEVER forgotten. the history books will eventually tell the truth about Reagan, Bush and the rest, even if Dubya keeps the records secret for the next hundred years, someday the world will know what worthless Presidents these were AND what real harm they did.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 03:03 PM

I'm not trying to censor anyone. I'm asking people to look inside their hearts from a human perspective rather than a political one.

Presidents are more than their policies; they are still people. Some of the same people bashing Reagan on this thread are the same people who expressed outrage over the treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib - "sure, maybe they're villains, but they're people too!"

So... does that apply to some people, and not all people? Someone clue me in here.

Remember, too, that while the President is the one at the top, he isn't always The One Responsible. He just happens to be The One Who Has To Take The Heat. Don't forget about the senators and congressmen. They are equally culpable. The President isn't all-powerful - we set it up that way on purpose.

I was too young to vote when Reagan was in office. I wasn't even paying attention to current affairs at the time. At 14 I was more interested in boys and pop music. So I don't have a vested interest here.

Whether you like it or not, Reagan -is- going to be sadly missed by the people who loved him. Is it so bad to ask a little compassion for them?

What do you want people to say about you after you die?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 03:19 PM

that I had the sense not to vote for Reagan or Bush


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 04:20 PM

KimC, you and others of your ilk are trying to dictate and control the way people "should" repsond to the death of a very divisive, loathed and loved person in a forum that is quite informal.

There is no law of etiquette that people must say nice things about a deceased person they loathed in life, and people speak their own truth, not niceties, when they talk informally like this about someone passing.

There is also no law of etiquette that says we must speak well of the dead if we don't know them personally, which is true for everyone here. Famous people die all the time. People heap undue praises and undue condemnations of dead famous people all the time.

Anyone who would complain about people damning Reagan here, especially with all the media hype surrounding the death everywhere you turn, is just plain whining.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 04:26 PM

(Some of you may not believe this, but I have never voted for a Republican presidential candidate. Ever. I have voted Democrat, but never Republican.)

I think the reason Donne said "each man's death diminishes me," is that he felt himself to be a part of humanity, a part of the bigger picture. When people with whom I am not personally acquainted die, I do feel a human sadness, mostly for the loved ones left behind. If you believe that all things are connected, it is hard not to be diminished just a little when one of the links breaks, regardless of your opinion of that person.

The other side of the coin is, we are augmented by the things that bring us joy, and that's what allows the broken links to heal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 04:32 PM

GUEST, I am not trying to dictate anything. I'm not complaining either. I'm just asking people to see it from a different angle, is all, to think about how they might want to be treated after they're dead.

I thought people on this forum would be receptive to the idea of showing compassion to someone in a time of sorrow. It wouldn't be the first time I was mistaken.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: InOBU
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 04:44 PM

Dear Kim C:
As far as being kind to him for the sake of his family, I am sure his kids understand the depth of feeling people have who opposed the "Reagan Revolution" - that march to American facism underwhich the rich do not need to fund their part of the national obligation, and the Bill of Rights is equated with Communism. I may remind you of his son's reply to his father's sence of the world, when he had his TV show.... "No, my father is wrong, trees do not cause polution..." As I said, it is a blessing that his kids where with him when he died, and had undergone a time of forgiving each other. But, as for the rest of us, we had to see that Crook (my co-religionist) Nixon remade at his death, and now we are seeing it again with Mr. Reagan. Sure, he was a jovial guy, likely generous with the people around him, but he was a bilght on American democracy.
All the best, and my condolences.
Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 04:46 PM

If I were in a room with Nancy Reagan, I would keep deferentially quiet except to offer condolences on her loss.....here, I am in a public forum, where one person said RR will be "fondly missed", and others begged to differ. I see no problem, except for the few totally nasty & hateful posts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 05:14 PM

Mted what facts are you referring to?

If I triggered a nerve on your far left liberal hypocricy in this thread, I am very proud of myself.

As for name calling, you are not the biggest douche bag on this forum. That's something to be thankful for, I guess.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: folkfan73
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 05:16 PM

Blackcatter - sorry about spelling Ronald's surname wrong. I have checked and correct his spelling to Reagan instead of Reagon! Please accept my full apology!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 05:17 PM

I also agree that the groundswell of Reagen in the limelight will help boost Bush.

what liberal media?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,Proud to be 'far left'
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 05:38 PM

Ah, Martin Gibson, your hypocrisy is showing.

So, the left is despicable for not kowtowing to the phony "mourning" period hype, but it is fine for the Bush/Cheney campaign to exploit Reagan's death in order to be re-elected.

Is that it? And by the way--with whom are you agreeing about Reagan's funeral giving Bush a boost in the electoral process? I haven't seen that issue raised by anyone but you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 08:10 PM

Do you really think I should mourn the president that gave Saddam WMD's and helped set up the Taliban?

I'd rather piss on his grave! No, I won't pretend to be sad. I'm not a two faced phony like he was.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: darkriver
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 01:11 AM

I recall that the letters
"Ronald Wilson Reagan"
are an anagram of
"insane anglo warlord".

doug


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 07:53 AM

Now that should be carved on his tombstone, doug!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 07:58 AM

headline: "dianavan gives fertilizer for flowers on Reagan's grave"

we are all entitled to our opinions.


but where is Kerry and the Dem leadership? probably right up front....


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 10:30 AM

Indeed we are all so entitled.

Difficulties tend to arise, however, when the attempt is made to present opinion (or misinformation, or fantasy, or delusion, or ignorance) as fact, or whan opinion has no objective reality to support it.

Rave on-

Greg


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 11:04 AM

These last two posts -- from BB and Greg F -- are unintelligible scat.

I wonder if the authors could be prevailed upon to translate their miasma into concrete or specific communications? As written they are meaningless, vaguely hostile generalities without referent.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,Pre-emptive coward
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 11:14 AM

You're a funny guy, Amos; people in glass houses ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 11:21 AM

Here is where we have problems. We tend to attack the messenger instead of the message. If we can't communicate with each other without picking fights, we can't expect our goverment to work either. Simply ask for a clarification.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 11:23 AM

It is interesting to note that virtually all the politicians who disagreed with Reagan all genuinely liked him as a person.    I am referring to comments long before his death as well as after his death.   In responding to his "lack of intelligence" Tip Oneal- the speaker of the house stated that Reagan outmanevered the deomacrats for 8 years and got all of his agenda accomplished with a democrat house and a democrat senate.   Oneal concluded that he was far smarter than anyone gave him credit for and that democrats always underestimated Reagan.

To answer a previous question- YES- I am much happier with the defeat of the Soviet Union.   The history of the USSR and communism is one of shame with murder of millions of people and goals of global and military domination.   The people of Russia deserve better than what their leaders gave them.   The rest of the world is far better off now that the empire is gone.   Thank you Ronald Reagan.

I got a big kick out of the light bulb discussion.   Only on the mudcat forum would one comment lead to the number of responses that were generated.    You click on a thread about Reagan and you learn the history of the light bulb.    You gotta love it.

PS: How many folkies does it take to screw in a light bulb?
None- folkies screw in a tent.    Sorry about that- couldn't resist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 11:33 AM

Larry K - the answer is three. One to make the change and two to complain about how much brighter the old bulb was.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 11:41 AM

OK, Ron:

Difficulties tend to arise, however, when the attempt is made to present opinion (or misinformation, or fantasy, or delusion, or ignorance) as fact, or whan opinion has no objective reality to support it.

Greg F: which opinions are you referring ot that have been presented as fact, without any objective reality; and what is the objective reality, in your view, that should be recognized?


headline: "dianavan gives fertilizer for flowers on Reagan's grave"
we are all entitled to our opinions.
but where is Kerry and the Dem leadership? probably right up front....


Bearded Bruce:

This seems to be something of an ad hominem..am I right? If not, what do you mean in your remarks about Dianavan?

And what is the unspoken implication intended about Kerry being right up in front? Can you clarify what you mean here?

Thanks,

Amos


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 11:49 AM

The man proved one thing...You really can fool some of the people all of the time. (Especially those who forgot what really went on)


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 11:57 AM

Much better Amos. A for effort :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 12:09 PM

Merely a general observation on the activities & tactics of the Reagan-Worshippers, Amos- no specific individual targeted.

One may read the accumulated drivel & draw one's own conclusions.

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 12:14 PM

Thanks, Greg. I withdraw my remark about scat.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 12:29 PM

There is no reason for us to judge Reagan more favourably now than when he was alive. He always was and now indisputably is beyond reform. He showed others no charity and deserves none. Dead or alive. If he could receive the suffering he caused it would at least be just. Let us be honest about what he deserves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 05:35 PM

To: guest Proud to be "far left"

How can you walk? Your head is so fat on one side you will probably tip over.

As far as agreeing that it will help Bush, you are not paying attention to media coverage obviously. or else you are so far left blinded that like many far right, you are no different in hearing what you want to hear and seeing what you want to see. Pictures of long lines to pay last respects and thousands of people waiting in line are getting a lot of press. Why? Apparently his death has struck an emotional nerve with many average Americans. Plenty who will jump on the bandwagon. Don't be surprised if bush uses the Reagan "legacy" to his campaign advantage. Good advertising and PR from this can't be ignored by the Republicans.

To the far left out there, guess what? The average American does not come to this web site. Most of you are preaching to yourselves or your own clones, but not everyone even here is agreeing with you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST, Lefty Ballpark
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 05:42 PM

Most of you are preaching to yourselves or your own clones

And pissing you and the other hair-shirt rightites off, Martin. It's not like it's not worth the effort ;0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 05:49 PM

Pissing me off?

what a joke!

I'm laughing my ass off at you!!

I told you I come here for the entertainment of it all!!

You stupid labia face who conveniently forgot his cookie to post this.

Moderates like me don't get pissed off. We just shake our head and stay amused at your type AND the Rush Limbaughs of the world.

You are very much alike you know!

Hah!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 05:51 PM

I finalized my opinion of Ronald Reagan when he make the statement that, as far as school lunches for children are concerned, ketchup could be considered a vegetable.

He was called the "great communicator" - unfortunately he used his skills to con the American people. Vodoo economics, the biggest deficit ever - I could go on but I won't.

Good riddence!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST, Martin baiter
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 05:55 PM

Pissing me off?

what a joke!

I'm laughing my ass off at you!!


Wow ... this is easy ... ;o)


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 05:57 PM

Uh, Guest. He's been out of the limelight for 10 years now.

Good chance people might say "Good riddence" when you die also.

Where is your bleeding liberal dainty little heart?

This thread has proven there are a lot of liberals out there with very little class. Especially dianavan who says she will piss on the former prez's grave. Maybe ssomeone needs to piss in her mouth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 05:59 PM

Charming.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 06:02 PM

Hey "Martin baiter"

didn't you change your name from Master baiter?

When are you going to realize it's the other way around?

I guarantee you I am having more fun yanking your chain and blowing this thread up already.

Isn't it really about the kind of hate that you support?

why don't you concentrate on finding your dick and start cutting hairs until you find one that bleeds?

Hah!, again!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 06:03 PM

Gotcha, Guest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 06:04 PM

I know you are, but what am I?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 06:26 PM

Martin- when is it that you're graduating from junior high school? I'd like to send a card-


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 08:37 PM

Couln't a lot of this just be the media stirring up hysteria as usual? Let's face it we get a lot of our information from the media. It's very self-serving. A new story to hype to death for another week.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 09:01 PM

Now I was thinking of wadin' into th9is thread but looks as if Martin and Guest ahve blowed the thing up...

And, speakin' from experience, Martin. Purdy danged juvinile response up there. Hope ya' didn't burn up any gray matter on that one...

Bye.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 09:14 PM

The reason I do not mourn the death of Ronald Reagan is that he made a mockery of the presidency and of the American people who voted for an actor. It was disgusting then and it is disgusting now.

Sorry to blow the image of some of you 'moderates' but I think you should know by now that all 'lefties' are not bleeding hearts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 09:27 PM

They'll never get it, dianvan, 'cause they are either:

1. Part of that 1% who porfited so greatly from Reagan's tax cut to the wealthy or..

2. Work in the military/industrial complex or...

3. Brainwashed brownshirts...

Ain't nom other reason I can think of why anyone would worship a man who was deeply dis-compassionate about the working class and poor, who pretty much single handedly killed off the labor movement in the US, turned Bubba against anyone with a little education and vision, waged an illegal war against Congress's wishes and supported "death squads" in South America which targeted intellectuals, social workers, and labor organizers... Hmmmm, sounds a lot like the current crook...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,Proud to be 'far left'
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 10:50 PM

"...you are not paying attention to media coverage obviously."

That is correct. It is dull. At times like this, I tune the media out because it is dulle, and because it doesn't matter what that the chattering class has to say about him.

History will judge Reagan, and I'd bet the farm it will be a much harsher judgment than the 24/7 right wing media hagiographies have been.

"Pictures of long lines to pay last respects and thousands of people waiting in line are getting a lot of press. Why? Apparently his death has struck an emotional nerve with many average Americans. Plenty who will jump on the bandwagon."

Nah, Americans, like every body else on the planet, loves to be part of these national dramas, and say "I was there". But there is no genuine grieving going on because the guy and his family had suffered a long time, and Reagan lived a long, privleged, pampered and insulated life. It's just like the Queen Mum debacle, only a helluva lot less pomp, jewels, and gin.

"Don't be surprised if bush uses the Reagan "legacy" to his campaign advantage."

Well, they've certainly exploited it tastelessly and shamelessly so far, we agree on that.

"To the far left out there, guess what? The average American does not come to this web site."

And we are supposed to give a shit about this, or the fact that we aren't in step with the average American idiot that loves the Republicans?

"This thread has proven there are a lot of liberals out there with very little class."

And this from a man who can't resist calling people who don't agree with him things like "You stupid labia face" or "Your head is so fat on one side you will probably tip over" and "why don't you concentrate on finding your dick and start cutting hairs until you find one that bleeds?"

Now that's class.

Tsk, tsk. Your prejudices are showing there, Marty boy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: InOBU
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 08:00 AM

Well... for all of you who accuse the liberals and left of weak mindedness, your imperial executive branch, dreamed of by Nixon and brought to the fore by Nixon has removed from the first US citizen the right to trial by jury - Mr. Padilla, who has been held without charge or trial, and the executive branch says that his crimes remove him from the expectation of rights which define us as a nation. Now, many of those on the right may say, good, "terrorists" don't deserve trials, well, if he is a terrorist, don't you think that the people have a right to hear the evidence, rather than a star chamber deciding who is and who is not an enamy of the state? Why do we have this right? First of all, the US government has been caught in lies in the past, and will lie again, and the courts are the last hope in the face of lies, and because, in the words of the great film a man for all seasons. "Would you deny the devil the protection of the law? "Of course Sir!" "And when you chace the devil to the far corner of the earth and he turns on you, what will YOU hide behind?"
This is the legacy of Regan, the "Reagan Revolution" was the end of the American Revolution.
Cheers
Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 07:00 PM

I object to the comparison of Reagan to the QM. QM had class.

And Martin Gibson, when have you been moderate about anything? You seem pretty much part of the lunatic right to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Kim C
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 09:10 PM

This is America, where anyone, even an actor, has the same opportunity to become President as anyone else who was born here. If a musician were to run for President, would we be as condescending? The people obviously had enough faith in Reagan, and that's the only thing that matters. They are the ones who elected him. If you didn't like it, Too Bad. There weren't any voting scandals surrounding his elections, if I remember correctly, so no one can complain that he "stole" the elections. He won fair and square. And that's another thing that's really cool about this country.

I didn't vote for Reagan. I couldn't. I was too young to vote both times he ran. And knowing me, I probably would have voted Democrat at the time anyway. The first two times I voted for a President, I actually did vote for a Democrat. (That would be Dukakis, then Clinton, the first time he ran.) But again, let me say, I still respect the office of the President, even if I don't necessarily respect the office-holder.

For the love of all that's good, is it SO HARD for people to be DECENT to each other?

I'm reading a really good book by the Dalai Lama. It's called "An Open Heart - Practicing Compassion in Everyday Life." I recommend it highly.

Signing off---

Kim C


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 10:04 PM

Kim C. is completely right.

For a young woman, she has more common snese than many. many here.

Common sense goes with being a moderate.

I feel sorry for you Bobert. You are way to old for your own good. Old and boring. Calling someone juvenile is a poor arguement but your only arguement.

Richard Bridge, I'm not a lunatic and I'm certainly no right winger. I just like to yank your short little chain and laugh about it. I was one of the biggest left wing, anti Nam hippies on the corner of Michigan and Balbo at the Democratic convention in 1968. People change, times change, and the ones who can't deal with it are the ones who are the juveniles.

Excuse me assholes. I'm living a big fat American dream and enjoying every bit of it. Where's my guitar? I feel like singing.

Guest, proud to be Far left, get a life and get off of that library computer. Yeah, I'm prejudice against idiotic douche bags like you. Y


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 10:17 PM

"If a musician were to run for President, would we be as condescending?"

It would depend entirely upon the musician, just as it did the actor in Reagan's case. Had it been Jason Robards who won the presidency, I think I'd feel quite differently about it.

"The people obviously had enough faith in Reagan, and that's the only thing that matters."

Oh, I think not. Unless of course, you are prone to accepting handbaskets being bestowed upon you in the devil's hometown.

But KimC is doing very well sticking to the conspicuous compassionate script bestowed upon us by the Republican "compassionate conservative" media.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 10:54 PM

There weren't any voting scandals surrounding his elections, if I remember correctly,

You don't remember correctly- always assuming you remember at all. Example: Do a google search on "October Surprise".

For the love of all that's good, is it SO HARD for people to be DECENT to each other?

You should pose that question of Ronnie. HE sure found it impossible to be decent to people. In spades.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Big Tim
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 04:41 AM

Ronan Tynan scheduled to sing at today's service: that will have me switching on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:39 AM

I shouldn't speak ill of the dead and I apologise in advance.
Reagan as a 2nd Rate actor - that is not my opinion - he generally on made " B" Standard movies - became a leader of the Actors Union.
He was then a Democrat .
I understood he used all his knowledge in this acting profession to gather details of his fellow professionals which was eventually used to stab his fellow actors and performers (including musical) in the back(s) in the Joe McCarthy era / witchhunts. Many of them never worked again in the US.
In reward for imparting all the dirt and accusations, he was fast-tracked into politics by the Republican Party ,from Californian Governorship to President, where he enjoyed a partnership with the other social vandal on the other side of the Atlantic - Thatcher.
I assume that in American politics in the days of the rise of Reagan, Election funds would require more money than that paid to a B Rate movie star .
I estimate his election funds were probably 30 pieces of silver from the Republicans for his McCarthy performances.
Paul Robeson - one of those severely affected by these circumstances , has given me infinitely more pleasure and sense of humanity than Ronald Reagan ever could , and I'm left with the feeling ,that, sometimes such characters are sent to test humanity's resolve, rather than to assist, after all who tested Jesus's resolve more than Judas ?.
Requiescant in Pace.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: DougR
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 02:53 PM

Dianavan: after reading most of these posts, I would NEVER accuse a "lefty" of being a "bleeding heart." Question is, do they have one at all?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,Casual Observer
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 04:42 PM

October Surprise:

Story 1


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: GUEST,Stephanie B. Walker
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 11:26 PM

Ronald Reagon is at rest, rejoice in knowing that he's partipating in the ultimate peace conference.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Two_bears
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 07:53 AM

Sorry for the loss you feel but if you take a clear look at the man and the damage he accomplished in his lifetime you will see why it's hard for me to understand how anyone could feel admiration for him.

Well let's see. Lech Walessa of Poland, Lady Margaret Thatcher, Gorbachev, Canadian former prime minister Mulroonet, and even the Liberal media ALL concur that Reagan ended the cold war without firing a shot.

The people of East Germany, Poland, Czhec republic, Slovakia, etc are all free today.

That is more than enough reason to respect the man.

Another reason to respect the man is that he reduced the top tax rate from 70% down to 28%. This gave the wealthy a chance to invest their money into companies, then devices like Computers, CD players, DVD players, Cell phone, etc; possible. The economic boom of the 1980s and 1990s.

You are probably blaming him for the national debt. May I remind you the many times; Every time President Reagan sent the spending plan to the house after the state of the union; the Democrat congress called the spending bill DOA (Dead On Arrival).

The President submits the spending plan; but It is the congress that spends the actual money.

If you would look at the amount of taxes coming into the General fund; the amount of money doubled. By allowing the people to keep more of their money' they were free to invest their money in companies that made home computers, CD players, DVD players, etc possible.

If you are still unable to see any reason to respect a great man; you have my pity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 08:07 AM

Interesting, Casual, if you choose accept the bought and paid for opinion of Daniel Pipes, 'Islamophobe', George Dumba Bush appointee & apologist, advisor to Dumbya's Defense Department - etc.

What would you expect him to say about his hero Ronnie?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 09:06 AM

Shoot, Martin, if you think calling someone "juvinile" is my "only" arguement, you apparently haven't been around here too long or read been reading my posts... Sorry that you find my arguments "boring" but that's Boss Hog's usual reaction to those of us in the working class.

Not too many musicans that I can think of, KimC, that I want as president... When I was in college I was selected from hundreds of applicants to an experiemental class limited to 10 students. It was taught by T. Edward Temple who was at the time the Comm9issioner of the Administartion under Virginia's Governor. The name of the class was "Contemporary Urban Problems Seminar" and lasted two full sememsters. Though I was a History and Poli-Sci major there was nothing that really prepared me for the complexity of the issues we tackled. No, I don't want actors and musicans to be in charge. I want folks who have had to grind some gray matter in running complex systems. Without that experience, all you get is "C student" results. Hey, I don't mind musicans and actors acting in advisory roles but I want some good old fashion "experience", just like if I needed a surgeon. When one elects inexperiences ideologues then what we have today is about all we can expect... Crappy *governace* and more *ruling*. Rulers don't have to explain themselves. I want a guy (or gal) who can explain himself, thank you...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Kim C
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 09:09 AM

I'm waiting for the conspiracy crowd to accuse Reagan of carefully planning his death in order to take the heat off W and the Iraq prison scandal. Or, someone's bound to accuse W of murder sooner or later.

Greg, I was 13 when Reagan was elected the first time. I truly don't remember much about it. I remember there was some question about the hostage release, but my question has always been, why wasn't Carter able to pull it off long before that? Were they all in cahoots together? I don't know. What I meant by my statement was that I don't recall there being any brouhaha about the voting process that year, like there was in 2000.

A few years back there was a story on Dateline, or one of those news shows, about the woman who had been the president of Reagan's fan club back in his acting days. It's well known that he liked to write letters, and he corresponded with this lady for many years - even after he became governor, even after he became President. He took the time to write to this lady. I think that's a pretty good show of decency. I imagine, though, someone will come up with some nefarious reason why he did it. Go ahead.

And remember, hatefulness only hurts the hater.

Really signing off now,

KFC


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 10:39 AM

Hell, Bear, even Geo. Bush Senior called Reagan's program "voodoo economics". Guess you neo-con types won't even believe your own!

They should carve on his headstone:

"Nothing in his life
Became him like the leaving it"
-

with a slightly different twist to it than given by the Bard.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 12:08 PM

You are probably blaming him for the national debt. May I remind you the many times; Every time President Reagan sent the spending plan to the house after the state of the union; the Democrat congress called the spending bill DOA (Dead On Arrival).

My understanding of the situation is that the Democrat congress called Reagan's spending bills DOA because they were too big (extravagant), not because they were economically or fiscally responsible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 01:07 PM

I notice that Mr. Pipes uses the terms "conspiracy theorist" and "conspiracy theories" no less than eleven times in that article. I'd say people like Mr. Pipes are the ultimate conspiracy theorists. To people like Pipes, every criticism of the US government as a part of a conspiracy that is being conducted by "conspiracy theorists".

;-)

It's a funny old world, innit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 10:12 PM

Fact: He spent more money than all previous presidents combined.
Fact: When running for president, he promise a balanced budget
Fact: He never even submitted one.
Fact he ran up the national debt to 3 trillion dollars.
Fact: He created the biggest tax hike in history
Fact: Everything doubled under his rein.
Fact: He lied about arms for hostages.
Fact He lied about Iran-Contra
Fact: He declared ketchup a vegetable so he could cut funding for school lunches.
Because of his policies thousands of mentally ill and poor are now on the street with no place to live and no way to get the medical care they need. They are only noticed when they panhandle or kill someone.

Question, why do so many people practically worship this lying phony?
Maybe it's because he makes Bush look better?
I'm tempted to buy a flag pole so I can run that flag right to the top during this period of mourning. Good riddance, I say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 10:15 PM

Two Bears, I heard Mr. Gorbechev speak about Reagan and he didn't say any such thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 10:31 PM

Ditto, Kendall, ditto...

Good riddence...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Cruiser
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 10:43 PM

They have laid Reagan to rest. Now I want them to lay the "news" coverage about him to rest.

I am glad he believes he is with what he called "the big man upstairs" Now, if we could just "beam Bush up" there with him.

Good riddance (from a card carrying Republican)

Cruiser


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 12:06 AM

A revealing summary of Reagan's politics begins:

"I liked Ronald Reagan, despite the huge divide between us politically. Reagan was a charming old pro who gave me hours of his time in a series of interviews beginning in 1966 when he was running for governor, simply because he enjoyed the give and take. In fact, I often found myself defending the Gipper whenever I was confronted with an East Coast pundit determined to denigrate anyone, particularly actors, from my adopted state. Yet, looking back at his record, I am appalled that I warmed to the man as much as I did.

"The fact is that Reagan abandoned the Roosevelt New Deal - which he admitted had saved his family during the Great Depression - in favor of a belief in the efficacy of massive corporate welfare inculcated in him by his paymasters at Warner Bros., General Electric and the conservative lecture circuit. Though Reagan the man was hardly mean-spirited, Reagan the politician betrayed the social programs and trade unionism he once believed in so fiercely. "


Robert Scheer
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/060904I.shtml


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Two_bears
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 03:14 AM

Hell, Bear, even Geo. Bush Senior called Reagan's program "voodoo economics". Guess you neo-con types won't even believe your own!

GHW Bush was wrong. Wasn't he.

Neither GHW or GW Bush are conservative.

I have made it abundantly clear that I do not like GW bush. A person that refuses to keep their word; I have no use for.

Several times; GW has appealed to the conservatives by saying he will veto a bill, then signs the bill.

Don't get me started on the patriot act 1 and 2 that is damaging out freedom.

Don't get me started on the mexican border where about 50,000 illegals are streaming across the border every month.

and about 20 other reasons why I do not like GW Bush.

i never voted for GW Bush the first time, and will not vote for him this time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Two_bears
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 03:29 AM

Fact: He spent more money than all previous presidents combined.
Fact he ran up the national debt to 3 trillion dollars

Sorry Kendall; you those are not facts.

It IS true that the national debt went up to three trillion; but that was not the responsibility of President Reagan.

1. after the Carter rule, the cost of borrowing money sent up dramaticaly. Don;t you remember the double digit inflation and high rates of interest.

2. The President does not have control of the purse strings. CONGRESS DOES.

The Congress submits bills, and the president has two choices sign or veto the bill. Congress loads bills that the president wants with all kinds of pork barrel projects such as spending millions to see if loud noises affect deaf dogs negatively, spending millions every year to maintain a dock that will never be used. This dock was designed to be the dry dock for a single ship. well that ship sank years ago, but they still spend millions in the useless dock.

If you don;t believe me; read the constitution and see what the three branches (congresss, judicial, and executive) have dominion over.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Two_bears
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 03:45 AM

Two Bears, I heard Mr. Gorbechev speak about Reagan and he didn't say any such thing.

So you have read all of Gorbachev's statements since President Reagan left office. I'm impressed.

I remember reading an issue of the Star where Gorbachev said Reagan won the cold war.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 07:34 AM

The Star? 'nuff said


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 09:52 AM

Actually, truth be known, the Cold War was more like a tag team wrestling match and war of itrition... Reagan just happened to be in the right spot at the right time, just as Bill Clinton was oin the 90's when the economy was so good and where Carter was in the 70's when it wasn't. Fir the most part presidents get way too much credit or blame for stuff that happens under their watches unless they buck the system with radical ideas. Both the current Bush and Reagan fall into that radical category... That in itself doesn't make them bad, however, since FDR and LBJ are also in that ctaegory. What makes both this Bush and Reagan bad, IMO, is their disregard for the middle and lower class... And in Bush "The Currents" case, a huge appitite for holding power at any expense (think Iraq here...).

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Two_bears
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 10:41 AM

The Star? 'nuff said

there are many papers called "The Star" I was referring to The Star newspaper published in South Africa.

'nuff said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 11:16 AM

Reagan? I miss him like I would miss a toothache or a poison ivy rash. :-)

However, I hope his soul has a good journey into the afterlife in any case. He no doubt did the best he knew how.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: harpmaker
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 09:07 PM

Just to clear up any earlier confusion...

El Ted sometimes uses my computer.

I myself have nothing to do with any post on this thread.

But, after having a word with the lad, at least he puts 'el ted' as a sub heading after my handle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 10:30 PM

You might want to suggest that he put "el ted" at the end of his post rather than at the beginning. I (and I suspect some other people as well) thought it was you talking to him in those first couple of posts in this thread, which was kind of confusing since we didn't see his name above yours in the list of names.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: sledge
Date: 17 Jun 04 - 11:41 AM

Two bears quoted Margret Thatcher above in her praise of Reagan. In the UK thats probably not such high praise as those overseas might think, she was if anything more virulent in her dislike of the soviets than him so anything that harmed them got a nod of approval from her. Remember also that her domestic policies caused one of the only riots in the centre of London in living memory.

Have to say I have a lot of Sympathy for Nancy, she looked frail anyway, but this seemed to have completely knocked the stuffing from her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: kendall
Date: 17 Jun 04 - 11:55 AM

I see it didn't take long for someone to cash in on his perceived memory. You can now purchase, at a heavy price, a special coin with his vacuous puss on it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Jun 04 - 12:05 PM

cartoon

...then click the little calendar below the cartoon to read the following 3 days. (15th, 16th,17th)


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Subject: RE: BS: Ronald Reagan - Sadly Missed
From: Beardy
Date: 17 Jun 04 - 01:38 PM

Is he fuck.


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Mudcat time: 25 May 1:34 PM EDT

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