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BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire

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GUEST,An English Patriot 17 May 04 - 10:56 AM
Little Hawk 17 May 04 - 11:09 AM
Mrs.Duck 17 May 04 - 11:21 AM
el ted 17 May 04 - 11:40 AM
GUEST,An English Patriot 17 May 04 - 11:46 AM
mooman 17 May 04 - 11:46 AM
GUEST,An English Patriot 17 May 04 - 11:50 AM
McGrath of Harlow 17 May 04 - 12:25 PM
Little Hawk 17 May 04 - 12:32 PM
Peter T. 17 May 04 - 12:51 PM
michaelr 17 May 04 - 01:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 May 04 - 01:40 PM
Dead Horse 17 May 04 - 03:26 PM
GUEST,surprised 17 May 04 - 03:35 PM
GUEST,Ed 17 May 04 - 03:48 PM
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Subject: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,An English Patriot
Date: 17 May 04 - 10:56 AM

A lot of people in Mudcat do not like Margaret Thatcher and I include myself in this group. However, even if you do not like her, is there one quality in Mrs Thatcher that you admire. Maybe you admire the way she challenged the prevailing concesus on so many issues? Maybe you admirred her stand on Europe?

I freely admit, I admire the way she refused to bend to the demands of the H Block protesters. Even the death of Bobby Sands did not move her. She had a principal and would not budge to blackmail. That took real courage.

What about everyone else?


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 May 04 - 11:09 AM

She looked marvelous as an inflatable doll...all craggy and nasty and basilisk-eyed. The day she exploded was a deeply tragic one for me, and I have been quite unable to find another since the product appears to have been discontinued.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 17 May 04 - 11:21 AM

I admire her in the same way as I admire Hitler for his humanitarianism, Pol Pot for his land filling schemes, Ayotollah Komeini for his religious tolerance - shall I go on?


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: el ted
Date: 17 May 04 - 11:40 AM

Mrs T. was the right leader at the right time. Gawd bless her.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,An English Patriot
Date: 17 May 04 - 11:46 AM

Oh come on Mrs Duck, as much as I diskiked Mrs Thatcher, I would not put her in the same company as Pol Pot and Hitler. She took a determined stand on so many issues that even if one disagreed with her most of the time, there was usually one issue on which people agreed. What this issue was varies from person to person.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: mooman
Date: 17 May 04 - 11:46 AM

Margaret Thatcher makes the following great anagram...

Grrr! A hatchet, mate!

Can't think of anything else at the moment...

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,An English Patriot
Date: 17 May 04 - 11:50 AM

I wish everyone would stick to the subject of the thread. I don't care what everyone thinks generally of Mrs Thatcher.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 May 04 - 12:25 PM

The great thing is, she's gone.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 May 04 - 12:32 PM

Awright...she had grit, and was tough and determined. This can be good or this can be bad...depends on the situation. Saddam Hussein had those qualities too, and so did Andrew Jackson and Winston Churchill.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Peter T.
Date: 17 May 04 - 12:51 PM

I despise her, but when you look at all the hideous men in British politics at the time (especially the Tories), she was a woman on her own, and beat them at their own game. I can only shudder at the memory of all those dreadful men.

Everything else about her was monstrous.

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: michaelr
Date: 17 May 04 - 01:36 PM

"I freely admit, I admire the way she refused to bend to the demands of the H Block protesters. Even the death of Bobby Sands did not move her."

Boy, if that's not trolling, I don't know what is.

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 May 04 - 01:40 PM

I suppose one good thing is that, any time people are going on about how women are not as capable of being vicious bastards as men are, and how they are more geared to a cooperative approach to getting things done, you can quote the case of Thatcher, to bring a touch of reality to the discussion.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Dead Horse
Date: 17 May 04 - 03:26 PM

She had the same admirable qualities as Hitler......


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,surprised
Date: 17 May 04 - 03:35 PM

Little Hawk; I am surprised that you bought a FEMALE inflatable doll!


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 17 May 04 - 03:48 PM

I think that comparing Thatcher to Hitler is rather stupid.

Not a 'quality' but I think that her greatest achievement was curbing the power of the more militant union leaders. I doubt many here will agree, but the state of the country in the late '70s was pretty grim.

Ed


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 17 May 04 - 03:59 PM

A woman became the head of one of the most important countries in the world.   Maybe the most successful woman in the history of the planet.   And most of you can't find anything positive about that.   She must have had some qualties that caused people in Great Britain to voite for her. As I recall she was in office for quite a few years. Shame on all of you who couldn't find any qaulities.

I have to comment about all the Hitler comparisons.    To quote Ronald Regan "there you go again".   Whenever a liberal has to describe any person they disagree with, they compare them to Hitler.   The comparison has lost all validity- kind of like crying wolf.    The comparison adds nothing to the argument.   It just says the person making it has no intelligent argument to make and must resort to name calling.   It basically puts you on the level of a 5 year old- but that may be too generous.

Do any of you understand how degrading that is to a holocaust surviver to the family of a halocaust surviver.   Do any of you undrstand the devastation of the Jewish population in Europe- 3 million jews were killed alone in Poland not to mention the scientific experiments performed.    When you compre Bush, Chaney, Rumsfield, Regan, Limbaugh, Hannity, Thatcher, Guliani, Gingrich, Lott, Savage, Ridge, Ashcroft, and many others to Hitler, how can anyone take you seriously.   Note that conservatives rarely if ever call liberals Hitler.   Oh my God- its raining today.   Must be a right wing conspiracy those Nazi bastards.

And you wonder why you have lost the house, senate, goverships, and presidency.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 May 04 - 04:27 PM

Hitler was a vegetarian. Probably the first vegetarian to become head of a European country. That's no reason for vegetarians to rejoice.

No she wasn't at all like Hitler, apart from this belief that she was always right, which is a quality which most successful politicians have. Her father, whom she revered, admired Hitler, I read, and had a bust of him in his study while she was growing up. She can't be blamed for that, but maybe it's an indication of the influences on her in her formative years.

"English Patriot" cited the way she sat out the hunger strikers in Northern Ireland as an indication of what a great leader she was. Without that "great leadership" I believe the Peace Process could have started a lot earlier, and the war in Northern Ireland could have ended a long time sooner, in the same kind of way it eventually did (touch wood).

And as for "...the state of the country in the late '70s was pretty grim." Well, I remember it as quite a good time - far better than it became for the next 20 years or so. Some strikes, true enough, which resulted in a small fraction of the disruption and waste and squalor caused by the way industries were butchered in a doctrinaire way over the Thatcher years.

Thatcher's approach to reform reminded me of Charles Lamb's "Dissertation on Roast Pig" in which he explained how roast pork was invented - a child accidentally set fire to a house with a pig inside, and the villagers poking around in the embers discovered a new delicacy. This eventually led to a rash of house fires. The moral of the story being when you do not understand how the pig gets cooked, you have to burn a whole house down every time you want a roast pork dinner.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 May 04 - 04:50 PM

Guest - I am even more surprised that you are surprised! :-) Have we met? Listen, if you can help...I am desperately seeking an inflatable doll of Hillary Clinton and cannot find one anywhere. I am willing to pay...anything. Well, almost anything. But it has to really look like Hillary, understand? No cheap K-Mart substitutes.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,woko
Date: 17 May 04 - 04:55 PM

She'll have one when the fucker dies of a painfully long illness of liver cancer the cunt!


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 May 04 - 05:11 PM

Thatcher? that depends how you reed her - a bit of roof

She was a good advert for voice coaches - though a pretty sorry ad for voice coaching.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Once Famous
Date: 17 May 04 - 06:12 PM

I understand that she was perfect in her use of feminine hygiene products.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Ed.
Date: 17 May 04 - 06:20 PM

Come on, McGrath!

The 'winter of discontent' was a bit more than some strikes, true enough. I don't know where you were living, but around here it was rats in the street because the rubbish hadn't been moved for a month, and wondering if the electricity would stay on long enough to cook the dinner.

Extremist Union leaders, tried to use their membership to advance their own causes. No secret ballots then!

Do you honestly think that the country would be a better place if Scargill had 'won' the miners strike?

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Thatcher fan. But credit where it is due.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Jim McCallan
Date: 17 May 04 - 06:59 PM

What qualities?
Only one, in my opinion.

She taught me that one should never, under any circumstances, be inclined to use a sledgehammer to strike a nail.

Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 17 May 04 - 07:05 PM

She was focused, she stuck to her guns, she did not wobble, and I just loved the way she hand bagged the European leaders at the time.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Once Famous
Date: 17 May 04 - 09:47 PM

Did she shave her legs and armpits?

Or was she smelly?


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Peace
Date: 17 May 04 - 11:17 PM

I notice that no one has mentioned the Falklands. I like that she sent in the SAS to scout, elements of the navy to secure the ocean around the islands, troops to take the islands,and I definitely like that she kicked the asses of a junta that was horribly vicious to its own people. And no, I don't want to get into the history lesson of who really 'owns' the Falklands (if you're British) or Malvinas (if your heart belongs to those filthy bastards who were in power in Argentina at the time), pardon me. Yep. That's my comment. Let the shit begin to fly.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 May 04 - 12:01 AM

I was sort of tickled to see the Junta get clobbered too...and yet I felt a certain sympathy for the Argentinian jet pilots who fought with tremendous courage, took great losses, and might have won the day had not so many of their bombs failed to detonate when hitting the British vessels! At the time I was quite pro-British. In retrospect, I feel great empathy for the fighting men on both sides of that one. The Junta was using the conflict to bolster up its domestic popularity...but miscalculated totally. They should've known better than to take on Maggie Thatcher's government. She was born for a moment like that one.

The British, by the way, came within a whisker of losing that war. It could have gone either way. They had two potentially vulnerable small aircraft carriers standing between them and defeat, and those ships could easily have been crippled or sunk, had the Argies had a little more good luck with their exocet missiles...to say nothing of non-exploding old bombs hitting several other important ships.

It was a question of very high risk to both sides. The Argentinians lost out when the dice were tossed.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: el ted
Date: 18 May 04 - 08:59 AM

Well said Ed. This country was going down the pan thanks to the Unions. The winter of discontent was a low point for England. Somebody had to stand up to those tossers at the TUC.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 May 04 - 09:04 AM

The Quality that she is now Out Of Power...


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 18 May 04 - 09:31 AM

Zero.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Peter T.
Date: 18 May 04 - 09:57 AM

The other thing she did which I thought was interesting was giving working people the chance to buy their own council flats/homes. As someone from North America living in Britain at the time of the winter of discontent, I was quite surprised when I was told that this was a radical idea!!! It was clear then (and clearer now) that people like to have equity in their own homes, and that lefties needed to rethink the role of property rights in modern societies. I think it is pretty clear that this was a stark challenge to the utopian kibbutz model that underlay a lot of socialist rhetoric. It made people smarten up.

Her real damage was rhetorical: the stance that vicious "take-no-prisoners" language and ideas were part of modern conservatism. She was the model for the vicious neo-conservative vulcanism that goes on now.

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Old Soldier
Date: 18 May 04 - 10:23 AM

The FALKLANDS, you wanker, Thatcher sent British slodiers to their deaths to further her political career.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: freda underhill
Date: 18 May 04 - 10:38 AM

Margaret Thatcher strongly pushed a philosophy of personal responsibility. Thatcher also led a campaign demanding that General Augusto Pinochet go free. A man responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of workers, socialists and other political opponents, who presided over mass executions, torture and rape. Pinochet put an end to Salvadore Allende's democractically-elected socialist government. He destroyed any possible opposition to his new government by arresting anyone who was ever likely to have supported Mr. Allende and socialism, or democracy, or unions, or free speech, or human rights.   

Once they were arrested, the army tortured most of them to try to get the names of more people to arrest. They used electric shock, torches, rubber hoses, and lots of other devices. Then thousands of them were cold-bloodedly murdered. All of this was done at the direction of Herr Pinochet. He was arrested on an Interpol warrant by Scotland Yard detectives at the request of Spain. Both Switzerland and France added their weight to the pressure for Pinochet to be prosecuted for crimes against humanity, by issuing international warrants for his arrest for the murder of Swiss & French nationals.

But Margaret Thatcher had a cup of tea with him.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 May 04 - 10:44 AM

"The winter of discontent was a low point for England."

"The "winter of discontent", a great phrase which has been used to fool an entire generation into thinking that life before Thatcher was absolutely awful. Shakespeare was a great phrase maker, but he didn't cvonbtrol what people would use his phrases for a few centuries downtye line. That phrase has been used to con people for decades.

In fact it the time before Thatcher was a great deal better in all kinds of ways than it subesequently became, and stayed. What the "winter of discotent" actually refers to is that there were some strikes, and that some public services for periods of days or weeks went down to the kind of level that a few years later became commonplace, as services were cut to the bone; the damage and inconveniance caused by strikes pales into insignifcance compared to the damage caused as unemployment soared into the millions and whole communities were devastated.

As for the Falklands/Malvinas - there wouldn't have been any war at all if she hadn't cut back on the token naval support provided out there, which was taken by the Generals in Argentina as a green light for sending in the troops. Was that sheer stupidity on her government's part? . Or was it an intentional false signal designed to lure the Generals into providing her with a war that won her an election landslide?

Council House sales? The way that they were imposed, and the restructions on councils usingteh money to replenish their hosuing stock it had the long term effect of robbing young people in the future of any possibility of renting good housing for a reasonable amount. It needn't have been done that way, but the intention was never to extend choice, but to narrow it by destroying public housing.
..................

However I've always felt that focusing the anger on Thatcher is a mistake. The people to blame were the people who backed her - never a majority, but a sizeable enough minority in a distorted electoral system to give her absolute power.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 May 04 - 10:47 AM

"The winter of discontent was a low point for England."

"The "winter of discontent", a great phrase which has been used to fool an entire generation into thinking that life before Thatcher was absolutely awful. Shakespeare was a great phrase maker, but he didn't control what people would use his phrases for a few centuries down the line. That phrase has been used to con people for decades.

In fact the time before Thatcher was a great deal better in all kinds of ways than it subsequently became, and stayed. What the "winter of discontent" actually refers to is that there were some strikes, and that some public services for periods of days or weeks went down to the kind of level that a few years later became commonplace, as services were cut to the bone; the damage and inconvenience caused by strikes pales into insignificance compared to the damage caused as unemployment soared into the millions and whole communities were devastated.

As for the Falklands/Malvinas - there wouldn't have been any war at all if she hadn't cut back on the token naval support provided out there, which was taken by the Generals in Argentina as a green light for sending in the troops. Was that sheer stupidity on her government's part? . Or was it an intentional false signal designed to lure the Generals into providing her with a war that won her an election landslide?

Council House sales? The way that they were imposed, and the restrictions on councils using the money to replenish their housing stock it had the long term effect of robbing young people in the future of any possibility of renting good housing for a reasonable amount. It needn't have been done that way, but the intention was never to extend choice, but to narrow it by destroying public housing.
..................

However I've always felt that focusing the anger on Thatcher is a mistake. The people to blame were the people who backed her - never a majority, but a sizeable enough minority in a distorted electoral system to give her absolute power.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 May 04 - 01:53 PM

And the search goes on....


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: C-flat
Date: 18 May 04 - 02:05 PM

I could never find much to agree with about Thatchers policies but I wish some of todays' politicians had a fraction of her resolve.
She said what she thought and, when she spoke, her opponents knew she meant what she said.
How many of our current crop of sound-bite-speilers could instill the same amount of confidence or fear (depending on whose side you were on)?
Like a lot of other people I know, I look at the politicians on both sides of the political spectrum and see very few natural leaders.
Unfortunately for Mrs.Thatcher, her greatest qualities, courage and conviction, made her the most hated politician of our times.
C-flat.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: ced2
Date: 18 May 04 - 02:26 PM

2 things:-
1)Her ability to shed not a tear at the growing plight of many under her boot, yet the sobbing she clearly did when her so called mates stuck in the political knife and she was given the order of the boot from no 10; &
2) her death, may it be slow, agonising and long drawn out.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Ed.
Date: 18 May 04 - 03:07 PM

I have no intention of becoming a Thatcher apologist, but this thread saddens me.

Comparisons with Hitler, Pol Pot and Ayotollah Komeini are absurd and ludicrous. Wishing here a slow, agonising and long drawn out death, is basically barbaric. I trust that that was a joke (abeit a poor one), ced2?

Thatcher certainly made lots of bad decisions, but she also did a few things that were really needed to help the general prosperity of the average Joe Bloggs.

To simply dismiss everything that she ever did as wrong and bad, is to show a show a small mindedness of the worst kind.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 04 - 03:37 PM

She was Tom Sawyer's first. And it must've been great 'cause he never married.

Icon


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 04 - 03:40 PM

Admire:

Mostly, although I strongly disagreed with much of her policy (the early bringing some balance to what had become a country ran by an out of control left being an exception), the thing I liked about was that I had some feeling that I knew she would try to do what she said she would do and that we knew where we stood with her even if we didn't like it.

This to me is a sharp contrast to Tony Blair who I think would say anything to gain votes/ remain in power.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 18 May 04 - 03:53 PM

I think she did great things for the dentists in this country. Think about it - no free milk for schools means that kiddies since and now tend to drink far too many carbonated, sugary drinks and don't get enough enough calcium to grow healthy teeth.

Yes, it's a tenuous link, but it's the only good thing I could think of. Dentists, Rejoice!


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Ed.
Date: 18 May 04 - 04:30 PM

no free milk for schools means that kiddies since and now tend to drink far too many carbonated, sugary drinks

A cast iron cause and effect proof, Shilo! Well done! (I'm being sarcastic, btw)

The fact that it's the 'only thing...I could think of' says more, with all due respect, about you than about Thatcher.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 18 May 04 - 06:16 PM

True, Ed. But then, we don't get taught useful logic in schools these days. Or any recent UK history (though I did understand nearly all the references in this thread, so I'm quite proud of myself).
But hey, you can't get an unbiased opinion.

(I did say the only good thing, as I'm not sure I think that her treatment of the general strikes, and privatisation of public services was good (thought it may have possibly been the lesser of two evils - I don't know). Sorry, just had to point out that I do know some things...and was being sarcastic too. With all respect of course - whether it's due or not)


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,A wolf
Date: 18 May 04 - 06:25 PM

i admire the way she sorted out the GLC - She just abolished it, and Red Ken and his minions couldn't do a thing about it. Classic bit of handbagging from the Iron Lady.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 18 May 04 - 06:57 PM

She has one redeeming quality; a person could not have been better planned as a wife for the whinging drug addicted neonfascist Tush Bumsores.

I cannot help but notice at this remove that she would have been the person to tell hungry little orphans that the OWNER would not let them have any supper.

She like the other one does not have any of her own money or power, so must suck off those who do. Such wealthy people do not have the brass to be nasty, but rely on the likes of her and that other scumbag who's 'meaness' is done so well that some, in a sort of Gollum way, aspire to be the same. Hence our nasty troll.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Gareth
Date: 18 May 04 - 06:57 PM

I have no love for the woman - But I would not wish her a "long and lingering death" - May she continue to exist to remind people what the ultra Conservatives are like.

A good quality ? Hmmm ! Supporting Howard I think. (or is that to cryptic for the purists ?)

BTW - And this s not inrended to reopen old threads the actions i the Falklands were correct, but taken for the wrong reasons.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 May 04 - 07:51 PM

I think where you live in England tends to colour you view of the lady. My southern friends used to say throughout the 80's, what recession...?

There was no hard drug problem before Thatcher. No beggars on the street. that was mainly because she closed down the mining industry and the mining villages became citadels of the drugs trade. they had always been places where the police thought twice before sailing in - and it provided some kind of alternative economy.

I don't think she planned to break the power of the unions. I think it just happened out of dumb luck. She was bloody useless at running the economy. Unemployment was a natural consequence. When nobody had jobs - people were in a weaker bargaining position.

There must be some reason why things got better after we got rid of the tories.Maybe Brown is just a better than lamont, Major and clarke were as chancellor. Its hard to figure out what she did achieve and what was going to happen anyway.

Can't say i liked her handling of the hunger strikers. They wanted a set piece like the 1916 rising with martyrs and thatch gave them it on a plate. sin Fein has never looked back electorally. Neither did I like her way with sacking anybody who disagreed with her - Hesseltine and sadly MacGregor - the best Education secretary in my lifetime.

I think if there was anything i admired it was her handling of the media. Hard to imagine these present tales of of the unacceptable getting out of a war zone. I admired her adroitness in debate - she made Kinnock sound like a verbose idiot - even when he had something valid and important to say.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 19 May 04 - 01:37 AM

First female Prime Minister of the UK

Longest serving Prime Minister of the UK

She took over a country that was close to being an economic ruin in 1979 (Counter to what MGOH would wish us to believe - Question for you Kevin when before or since did Britain have to go to the IMF for a loan) and managed to completely turn the situation round. She achieved it by the application of leadership and common sense, that many in the country, while not necessarily liking it, did recognise the need for it.

History, I believe will be very kind to her - she will probably be seen as the most effective Prime Minister the UK has ever had.

The policies that were the corner-stones of her government are all still in place today and they have been adopted in other EU countries.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Hrothgar
Date: 19 May 04 - 02:07 AM

She was consistent. That is possibly why some people hate everything she did, and most people hate at least something she did.

I grind my teeth when I say this, but I respect her far more than I do this weasel Blair. Don't even think about her successors in the Conservative Party.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 May 04 - 04:06 AM

we applied for a loan to the imf because the country needed investment. parts of the country and our community went to hell under her leadership.

if you go to a great city like Liverpool and see the quid shops in the main city centre where most cities and large towns have the big retailers - you can see that we still do need investment.

the vileness of the woman was in her indifference to suffering and her belief that if we just pretended it was 1952 Len Hutton would score a century, we could hang derek Bentley again and all would be all right with the world.

Thus we have a massive literacy problem in this country. In the 1970's we were starting to buckle down to sort out this problem - we were beginning to honour the idea of comprehensively educating our population in comprehensive schools. All that went out of the window with the national curriculum. the idea that if we all followed a 1952 syllabus all would be well. We are left with thousasnds of children who hardly know vowel sounds in classes pointlessly doing two foreign languages. the remedial reading departments in schools were all but dismantled.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 04 - 04:14 AM

Self confessed Fallibility, humility and tolerance.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 19 May 04 - 04:28 AM

Her tacit approval of her protege, Tony B.?


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 04 - 04:39 AM

Inventing the Poll Tax
Creating the idiom of the New Age Traveller
Making the music of the 1980's some of the most depressive listening, ever.

Sometimes I still shiver


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 May 04 - 04:54 AM

weelittledrummer, unemployment wasn't a consequence, it was a very deliberate tory policy, one of thatchers political weapons which she used against the trade unions she hated so vehemently.

She introduced the ' poll tax ' in Scotland to punish them for daring
to vote against the torys.
Incidently ' tory ' I believe is the old Irish word for thief.

And as guest old solder said, she sent British slodiers to their deaths to futher har political ambitions.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: ard mhacha
Date: 19 May 04 - 05:01 AM

Without doubt Sein Feins best recruiting agent, she was responsible for prolonging the mayhem in the north of Ireland.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 May 04 - 05:55 AM

She brought the song 'Maggie May' to life...

That dirty Maggie May, they have taken her away
and she'll never walk down - ing street any more
:-)

Strange as it may sound I am of the firm opinion that it was the 'stand on your own feet' selfish attitude that spawned the yuppie generation and is responsible for a lot of the selfishness we are seeing today. Couldn't stand the woman and we are still suffering from the effects of her dogma today.

Yet, to answer the question, she did do away with the 'super' authorities (Greater London, Greater Manchester, Merseyside etc). In my opinion a good


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:00 AM

She took a crisis and turned it into a disaster.

But once again, the people who backed her bear the real blame.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:00 AM

...thing!

Sorry - There I go again. Can't wait for anything. See what I mean...;-)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:08 AM

Teribus,

I think history will always be divided over Maggie. My own version FWIW is that she was around in the right place at the right time. I don't think you needed to be Einstien to see the mess we were in and know that some changes needed to be made. She seemed to be the right choice for the time - someone who would stick with her beliefs and take action. Unfortunately, as is perhaps common in people with such strong beliefs, she went too far and I believe the only reason for her long reign was not so much what she was doing but fear of another Labour goverment. I'd have had her do the initial job and then booted her out!

One thing with the history I still can't figure is who's side the union leaders were really on. I know this is my own conspiracy theory and should not be taken too seriously but when I look back, I find it hard to credit that they could create a situation whereby Thatcher would become a popular choice for voters unless they themselves had investment intrests and wanted to bring Labour down. In reality, I suppose it was more a case of blind stupidity.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:18 AM

Thatcher would become a popular choice for voters

She was never a popular choice for voters - by which I mean far more people always voted against her than for her. (The same is true of Tony Blair of course.)


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:42 AM

I must admit I've never undertood the voting system - perhaps proportional representation would be better?

Perhaps the most worring thing to me is that a) so many people seem to have lost interest to the point that they don't vote and b) I'm sure I'm not alone in casting votes against who I percieve as my greatest enemy rather than voting for someone.

I've harped on about this before but there has not been a possible PM candidate since John Smith that I would have voted for. We never can know how he would have turned out but for me, he had integrity, a social awareness and an ability to balance that up with what, whether we like it or not, is a money driven world - I wish the world was different but not even revolutions will change (some) human nature.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 19 May 04 - 07:16 AM

She stole hope, she abolished chrismas, she stopped free school milk for little kids, she refused to talk to the hunger strikers - which may I add in any other world would have been the UN kicking the loyalists back to where they came from -, she created the most cruel and criminal economy that the UK had since the days of Dickens and Ginparlours.

Her name is forever linked with misery and depression for all but a few Paki flop house owners that made money from it.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 May 04 - 07:25 AM

I have to admit, sorefingers, I never really thought she was capable of showing much feeling to people outside her own.

One there that has interested me was when her son Mark got lost in the desert. She seemed worried then but could equally imagine that had it been somone else's son, she would have been saying "foolish irresponsible young twit - we should not have to help people like that out".


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 19 May 04 - 10:02 AM

McGrath of Harlow, 19 May 04 - 06:00 AM

"She took a crisis and turned it into a disaster."

Complete and utter hysterical crap - your journalistic tendencies are showing Kevin (never mind the facts, I want this message put across, alter the facts or better still get some fake, staged photographs to prove my point)

Margaret Thatcher as an MP supported gay rights; supported woman's right to abortion; was pro-comprehensive eductation. And to those who rabbit on about the ending of free school milk (The "Maggie Thatcher, milk snatcher" crowd). If you are going to castigate her over that issue, you could at least give her the credit due for at the same time saving the "Open University" from oblivion.

MGOH in one of his earlier posts to this thread that includes his opinions on the "As for the Falklands/Malvinas" - like that comment of his I quoted above, again complete and utter crap.

Oh, and weelittledrummer 19 May 04 - 04:06 AM

"we applied for a loan to the imf because the country" had all but been bankrupted by a finacially irresposible Labour Government and Trade Union movement that was totally out of control.

And, "Thus we have a massive literacy problem in this country." well weelittledrummer if, "We are left with thousasnds of children who hardly know vowel sounds in classes pointlessly doing two foreign languages." That might have a great deal to do with poor discipline, "can't be arsed to bother trying pupils", "can't be arsed to bother trying piss poor teaching" aided and abetted all the way down the line by "can't be arsed to bother trying piss poor parents". But neither what you, or MGOH, describe is the case - is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: JennyO
Date: 19 May 04 - 11:48 AM

Apparently this little ditty was doing the rounds in the Thatcher days:

If you think Maggie Thatcher is an old shitbag then smile smile smile
If you think Maggie Thatcher is a prune-faced hag, smile boys thats the style
Maggie and her cabinet, should be boiled in oil
If you think Maggie Thatcher is an old shitbag then smile smile smile

(with apologies to Pack Up Your Troubles)


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 04 - 12:14 PM

My comment on the Falklands/Malvinas war, and the green light given to the Generals was based on the decision to scrap HMS Endurance, which had been maintaining a symbolic Royal Navy in the Falklands area.

Perhaps it wasn't intended as a signal that the British government didn't give a damn about the islands, but it must have looked that way from Buenos Aires, especially in light of the fact that in l981 Thatcher's government had been trying to arrange a leaseback arrangement that would have given sovereignty over the islands to Argentina.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 19 May 04 - 01:41 PM

She had strength and resolve, yes. She also had a vision for her country. I did not agree with her vision, but she HAD one, and committed herself to achieving it. She rode roughshod over obstacles and dissenters. There is much there to admire. But she went and shat all over it by having no ears to listen and no heart to feel with.

At the end of it all, mistaken though her vision was (in my opinion), I believe that she did love her country and that she honestly thought she was doing good. There is so much spin in today's politics that I cannot tell what Blair, or Kennedy, or Howard honestly feel about their country. And that worries me.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Cluin
Date: 19 May 04 - 01:46 PM

Margaret Thatcher could rock! Ever seen her go to town on her `64 Strat? MAN!!! She could peel off some great leads.

She also always had a good stash of the best weed available and was real generous with it. After a few jays, she'd go down on you too.

But she just wouldn't change her hairstyle, so we kicked her out of the band. Years later, she had us banned from touring England. The woman knew how to hold a grudge, I'll say that for her.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 19 May 04 - 02:00 PM

McGrath of Harlow 19 May 04 - 12:14 PM

"My comment on the Falklands/Malvinas war, and the green light given to the Generals was based on the decision to scrap HMS Endurance, which had been maintaining a symbolic Royal Navy in the Falklands area."

Never heard of Naval Party 8901 then Kevin? They were Britains symbolic presence in the Falklands - Not HMS Endurance.

Nick Barker, was Captain of HMS Endurance at the time leading up to, and during the Falklands War. I knew him years ago, and remember having a long chat to him just after he got back. Most of HMS Endurance's work was connected with British Antarctic Survey and she (Endurance) was getting pretty long in the tooth by the time the Falklands came along, the decision to scrap her had more to do with age and the cost of refitting her. Stanley was used as her "nominal" base between her trips down into the ice, the rest of the time she spent in Portsmouth Dockyard.

The British politician who did give the Argentinians the green light was Dennis Healey in 1966. After that all they had to do was watch and wait, had they in fact waited another 12 months they could have taken the Falklands and we would not have been able to do anything about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,lurker
Date: 19 May 04 - 04:54 PM

She had many admirable qualities.
She lurked where she wasn't welcome and was darn hard to get rid of.
If that isn't something to be proud of, I don't know what is...


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: vectis
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:08 PM

Love her or hate her she did the job she said that she'd do. She took a country on the verge of bankrupcy and turned it round, and it was hard on all of us. She paid off the national debt, much of it left over from WW2 and got the country into credit.
Before she took over the reins my family was about to emigrate to get work and somewhere to live. We stayed and eventually the policies of the day paid off and the work came back.
We're still here, there is enough work to go around and we have a decent roof over our heads.
Those were not good or happy times but IMHO it was worth the struggle.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:30 PM

Well said, Vectis and El Greko.

McGrath may huff and puff as much as he wants...


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:37 PM

She was good in Spitting Image.

She made the clip top handbag an item to be cherished.

She made the bloody house prices soar when she bought a pad in Dulwich.( which we paid for, she never lived in and police kept 24hr vigil there at our expense.)

She looked OK in that royal blue silk dress.

She became such a caricature of herself, the image is clearly etched and her like will not suceed again so soon.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Cluin
Date: 19 May 04 - 08:41 PM

Sorry. I was thinking of Margaret Trudeau.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Bill KENNEDY
Date: 19 May 04 - 09:19 PM

the only quality of hers I admire is her mortality, I hope to live on this earth without her on it for a while, not soon enough,

less stink on the earth though more in it once she's gone


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Hrothgar
Date: 20 May 04 - 05:50 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 May 04 - 06:06 AM

well yes macgrath, its true we have a fair amount of crap going down in schools and society generally.

my point was and remains that there is no point in having children who can't read and write English in lessons doing two foreign languages, and that is what old smart arse Thatch and keith Joseph legislated, and which remains the bloody lunatic situation which nobody has the sense, or cares enough about to reverse.

mainly because there are people like you going round singing the praises of that golden age with its wise and wonderful leader

as for unions holding the country to ransom - when did our leaders ever listen to anything else except naked power


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Ringer
Date: 20 May 04 - 07:48 AM

What are you on, weelittledrummer? McGrath's on your side.

The current state of British education, awful indeed, is something that Maggie didn't correct; but it's not of her origin. That's down to thoughtless bien pensant educationalists who advocated cretinous things like "comprehensive education" (I put it in quotes because, though it may have been comprehensive, education it was not) and "child-centered learning" (which sounds absolulely wonderful but is a euphemism for chaos in the classroom), at the same time denying that it was right to teach children but it was only permissible to "lead then into learning".

I spit on all educationalists.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 20 May 04 - 08:24 AM

There is so much spin in today's politics that I cannot tell what Blair, or Kennedy, or Howard honestly feel about their country. And that worries me.

Yep, scary isn't it? The only thing I would feel confident they would serve is a little thing called "self interest".


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 May 04 - 10:22 AM

yes ringer it is a vain hope to educate the population comprehensively. there will always be hopeless cases like your good self


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 04 - 10:55 AM

Aye, weelittledrummer, for the old hard left socialists, it's always been the same song, it's always somebody else's fault, never your own.

They should be doing this, they should be providing that, they should be giving us this.

And do you know what? Even if all the above WAS done, provided and given - It still would never be enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 20 May 04 - 11:53 AM

I admire here current quality of "being dead". May she stay that way for a long time.
And bearing in mind Tony Blair's policy of copying everything which Thatcher did in her politics, may he also copy this quality - and quickly - Ta.

Quack!!
Geoff the Duck.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: el ted
Date: 20 May 04 - 12:00 PM

You've never had it so good! Stop whining, none of you had go down t'pit at six years old did you, like I did?


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 20 May 04 - 12:04 PM

Her Demise !

She did star in one of my favourite political posters - it was a Labour Party one.   It showed a photo of her face (with a very snotty expression) taken from below, looking right up her nostrils. The caption read "Do the Tories get up your nose ?". I think that she or the Conservative Party got a court order to stop it being used - it was very funny at the time though.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 04 - 05:05 PM

You were lucky, el ted.

We had to get up half hour before we went to bed. Pay pit owner, we did, just for the privilige of wehking there.
When we got 'ome, our dad used to beat us within 2 thousanths of our lives, and we 'ad to re gurgitate our breakfast, just so as rest of mah 10 brothurs an sisturs could get some sort of nurishment in ther poor little bellies.

And you think you had it tough


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 21 May 04 - 05:05 AM

You were lucky.
eric


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: el ted
Date: 21 May 04 - 05:18 AM

Did I mention the fact that it was a uranium mine, and we all glow in the dark!! you lucky lucky buggers!!! AND to make matters worse, we had to play electric guitars because we couldn't afford proper acoustic ones!


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: freda underhill
Date: 21 May 04 - 09:09 AM

I was working as a political cartoonist during her time. yes, she was a good subject for characterture.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 04 - 06:11 PM

She was a strong minded woman...perhaps stronger minded than the "Old woman" who is Prime Minister at the mo


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 04 - 06:25 PM

Sincerity in itself is not a good quality, when it is combined with ruthless wrongheadedness.

huff and puff, Ed? That seems to suggest a certain tendency to get over excited, which sometimes results in people making personal attacks on other people just because they find themselves in disagreement with them. Offhand, I can't recall ever doing that on the Mudcat. If I have, that would have been a singularly pointless thing to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: HuwG
Date: 23 May 04 - 08:00 PM

My personal thoughts re Maggie and the Falklands War. It is a long-exploded myth that it was Maggie's personal "handbagging" which led to victory. With most ministers (including John Nott, the Defence Secretary) vacillating and considering accepting Galtieri's fait accompli, the service chiefs, particularly those of the Royal Navy, gatecrashed her office and said in effect, send everything we have listed in Janes to take those islands back. Otherwise, there is no reason to keep the Royal Navy in being.

During the war, she did perform as a Churchillian tory leader is supposed to, but at the end of hostilities, many people (including many in the army who I knew) disliked the triumphalist attitude. Such petty acts as not including any personnel who had been visibly wounded in the victory parades, sent entirely the wrong message. Instead of, "We sent soldiers to fight far away. Here is what it cost. We believe for that for principles of democracy and sovereignty, it was worth paying. Agree or not as you wish, but these servicemen embody your right to do so", the message seemed to be "We have proved that we had bigger cojones than Johnny Gaucho. We salute those who did not cop a bomb or a bullet. They are winners The rest, requiring more men to carry them off the battlefield, are losers. Those who complain are sore losers."

Oddly enough, I believe that she had qualities that we don't ever notice in her purely public image. Her husband was a charming, self-deprecating patrician who took in good part his cruel lampooning (by John Wells and Richard Ingrams). Her home life seems to have been perfectly happy, although her son is not perhaps a good advertisment for it.

Overall though, I never liked her combative style, and her pig-headed persistence in courses which were obviously unwise, and divisive.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 24 May 04 - 12:59 AM

Seems like finding a "quality" for "Mad Maggie" would be like finding a "crock of fetid dingo kidneys".

As McGofH (and a few others) said, she ain't in charge anymore, Huzzah!

She came to St. Louis a couple of years ago as part of a "speaker's series" and I couldn't find anyone who felt it necessary to go and picket her. I thought it over and decided they were right. She was "gone" and unlikely to return.

What a grand legacy she left!!!

The Bitch!

CB


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 24 May 04 - 05:49 AM

One of the legacies she left is the influence on the men who have followed her....Hope they don't don the wig and clothes in her image..in private....Who knows????


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 24 May 04 - 05:56 AM

She proved to me that women can be as excreble politicians as men...and as dangerous.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Maggie Thatcher
Date: 24 May 04 - 06:12 AM

You can all fuck off. I set out to destroy the trade unions and nearly succeeded.
I hate all working class people, especially fucking miners.

Maggie of Kesteven


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 May 04 - 04:17 PM

I'm glad she never caved in to the pressure to wear low-cut jeans and a halter top.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 25 May 04 - 08:43 AM

I had a sort of gruding respect for her. She did some things that seemed harsh at the time..but they needed doing and she did them. At least we all knew where she stood...can't say that about this current bunch, can we ?


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: el ted
Date: 25 May 04 - 08:50 AM

no, true.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: el ted
Date: 25 May 04 - 08:51 AM

oh, post no 100 by the way.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Lovechild
Date: 27 May 04 - 05:44 PM

Mrs Thatcher was a mans woman


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 May 04 - 06:26 PM

She never had illicit public sex with anyone on the streets of Hull.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Cllr
Date: 27 May 04 - 06:29 PM

She generates so much discussion after so many years


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 May 04 - 06:29 PM

oh you missed that chapter in philip larkins biog.....


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 27 May 04 - 08:09 PM

Not this man's woman, GUEST, Lovechild


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 28 May 04 - 07:21 AM

No MIke she generates so much hatred after all these years. She destroyed whole communtites and yes I do think the country would have been a better place if the unions had won!


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 28 May 04 - 09:18 AM

Well said Mrs Duck, I agree entirely, she should be burned at the stake, fuelled by COAL.
eric


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 04 - 10:28 AM

I admire her, she had what all of us want Tony Blair to have...the courage of his convictions.....


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 May 04 - 11:27 AM

oh come on the guys got a stratocaster, I call that nailing your colours to the mast


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: ard mhacha
Date: 28 May 04 - 04:06 PM

I see the Chileans have stripped Maggies good friend,Pinochet,of immunity, that means they can try the old tyrant for all of those murders.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Dylan
Date: 28 May 04 - 04:23 PM

How they can make all that grass stay on a roof year in year out. Amazing and they live up to there names dont they.

Well what qualities do I admire in the Barroness well it would have to be the total lack of discrimination between the english and the porridge wogs(myself included as the latter) on the poll tax issue by giving it to Scotland well before the English I mean hwere better to try such an unjust taxation system that in the poorest part of the UK (NI excluded). But it didnt seem to matter about the hatred felt for the tax until it arrived down south and they did the same as we did then low and behold it was replaced. MMMMM how can you admire some one that you have no respect for thats my point to the question.
Cheers for the noo
Dylan


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,pedant
Date: 28 May 04 - 05:25 PM

The UK needs butchers as well as shepherds


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,lurker
Date: 28 May 04 - 05:26 PM

Yes, but sadly we are not sheep


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 11:26 AM

Mrs Thatcher, honarable , reminds me of the ballad
Dirty maggie May.

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maggie May [replaced copy/paste of entire page with the link - mod]


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 12:02 PM

in answer to the original question

none at all


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 12:29 PM

The unlikelihood of her ever coming back!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 12:38 PM

Qualities and Thatcher are not words which usually appear in the same sentence.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 12:57 PM

She did a good "Meryl Streep"


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: kendall
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 07:01 PM

...and it's clear to any punter that the Generals in their Junta only wanted an excuse to start a fight.
But, Maggie, just like them you weren't too popular back home and the thought of war just filled your heart with glee, "We will fight them on the beaches" could be heard in all her speeches, and the whole damn navy had to go to sea. (Ian Robb)


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Elmore
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 10:26 PM

At present, her silence.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 03:59 AM

Had a quick read of some of the comments earlier up the thread and someone wrote:

"I doubt many here will agree, but the state of the country in the late '70s was pretty grim."

This is one of the standard cliches that are trotted out by her admirers whever Mrs T. is mentioned. But isn't the state of the UK in the early 2010s "pretty grim"? Apart from the 'economic crisis' (caused by the greedy and selfish who Thatcher encouraged)we're now a more unequal society with much higher levels of unemployment than in the 1970s; rents are much higher and housing more expensive; politicians now represent property developers, rather than voters and taxpayers, and those same developers are busily covering our countryside with 'executive' housing - much of it out of the financial reach of those who most need it. Our towns and cities are dismal 'clones' of each other and many of the big chains, which populate them, are going bust so that the tacky shopping centres begin to resemble 'after-the-apocalypse' ghost towns. And don't get me started on the state of the environment!

So goodbye Mrs T. - rest in peace but please don't come back to haunt us. It's time we moved on to something better!


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Stu
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 04:12 AM

"The policies that were the corner-stones of her government are all still in place today and they have been adopted in other EU countries."

That's not a legacy worth bragging about. These policies, continued by the tories and New Labour have culminated in the appalling state of affairs in the UK now. No social housing, young people priced of the property ladder, the destruction of the welfare state, the privatisation of the NHS, the crash of 2009, austerity, increasing inequality in all parts of society, an oligarchy, the stopping of legal aid, the ongoing erosion of workers rights to compete with far-east sweat shops, the bonus culture in business, usury, a complete lack of accountability by big business, the shame of Levenson, the deregulation of banking, a political elite that has never held a real job, the 1%, the paramilitarisation of the police force and their use as a tool to oppress legitimate protest etc etc etc

Not a lot to be proud about there.

Stu that was Sugarfoot Jack


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 04:38 AM

The overwhelming personality that can be appreciated by simply realising that, more than 20 years after she left office, here we are still going on about her, as if she was some witch who had cast magic spells over us all, instead of being quite clearly, as that character in the David Lodge novel of her time pointed out, a responder to history and a brilliant rider of the zeitgeist.

~M~

In what way, Stu that was Sugarfoot, is a political career 'not a real job'? You try making a success of it and see how much work or effort involved, why don't you?


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Howard Jones
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 04:58 AM

What never seems to be discussed is what the country would have been like if she hadn't come to power. Mining and other heavy industries had been in decline for decades (Harold Wilson's Labour government closed more pits than Thatcher) and had to be supported by unsustainable public subsidies because they were uneconomic. British manufacturing, and especially the car industry, were a joke.

The unions may have looked after their own members' interests but made it difficult to get a job if you weren't in the right union, and difficult to do it properly if you were - many of the strikes were demarcation disputes between unions because someone from one union had picked up apanner which only someone from a different union was allowed to use.

Margaret Thatcher saw that drastic action was needed and had the clarity of vision and determination to do it. One of her mistakes was to rely too much on the market to pick up the pieces - in regions where the entire economic base had collapsed this was never going to happen. However regeneration did take place, but was perhaps too little too late.

However if she had not taken firm action to restructure the economy the liklihood is that the decline would have continued, with much the same results for those areas dependent on mining, steel or other uneconomic industries. The difference is that the more successful areas of the economy might never have flourished.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 05:59 AM

Which is a bit like saying think of the mess which Germany would have been in if the Nazis hadn't come to power. Some prices are just too steep to pay.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 06:13 AM

Come back, Mr Godwin ~~ all is forgiven!

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Howard Jones
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 06:27 AM

Godwin's Law strikes again!

British industry was in a state of decline, partly as a result of restrictive practices which made it inefficient, partly as a result of mismanagement and poor investment, and partly as a result of overseas competition. Would the IMF or the EEC would have allowed the subsidies to the mining, steel and other uneconomic industries to continue? Could those industries have survived without being subsidised? Would the effect on those areas which were entirely dependent on those industries have been any different?

I don't know - we can only speculate. But the idea that the era before Thatcher was one of unity and prosperity which she came along and smashed clearly doesn't bear examination.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: banjoman
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 07:01 AM

She kept her promise to put the country on its feet. How true - cant afford train tickets -petrol for the car- the bike has been pinched. Yes she certainly put this country on its feet. This current government is attempting to canonize someone whom they "betrayed" to use her own words. Much as I despised the woman and her like, I hope she rests in peace and is now answerable to a higher authority -as we all must one day.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Bert
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 09:42 AM

Thieving.

Banjoman, I think that she will actually answer to a lower authority.


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Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Stu
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 10:34 AM

"In what way, Stu that was Sugarfoot, is a political career 'not a real job'? You try making a success of it and see how much work or effort involved, why don't you?"

A political career is a job that (in an ideal world) requires the individual involved to have had a broad experience in life. This means understanding that political decisions have sometimes significant effects on the lives of individuals who are often powerless to act against those decisions. The problem is that many of todays politicians have not gone through the process of having to find and get a job on merit as they have come up through established routes to a political careers; the obvious case being the Bullingdon boys running the country who are groomed for tory greatness from an early age. They have little or no idea of life in the real world and they cannot empathise with people from a large part of the population. It's worth noting this isn't the same as Thatcher's inability to care about the people and communities who suffered due to her inability to understand causality (undoubtedly a character defect), but the fact that they've never been exposed to that side of life.

More useful would be if they would come to me and try to make a success of being a sole trader in an economic environment that means I get zero tax breaks, no stat pay if I'm ill and have to fight against constantly rising costs and large companies insisting on long invoice settlement times. Not much chance of that is there?


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