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DDay for smoking ban in Ireland

Fergie 29 Mar 04 - 10:50 AM
Sttaw Legend 29 Mar 04 - 10:54 AM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Mar 04 - 01:13 PM
greg stephens 29 Mar 04 - 01:16 PM
GUEST,JTT 29 Mar 04 - 01:37 PM
Clinton Hammond 29 Mar 04 - 01:39 PM
Big Tim 29 Mar 04 - 03:20 PM
Big Tim 30 Mar 04 - 02:51 AM
greg stephens 30 Mar 04 - 05:38 AM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Mar 04 - 06:20 AM
greg stephens 30 Mar 04 - 06:27 AM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Mar 04 - 07:11 AM
Dave the Gnome 30 Mar 04 - 07:23 AM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 30 Mar 04 - 07:26 AM
el ted 30 Mar 04 - 07:31 AM
ard mhacha 30 Mar 04 - 07:46 AM
GUEST,earthling 30 Mar 04 - 07:49 AM
GUEST,eileen 30 Mar 04 - 07:54 AM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Mar 04 - 07:57 AM
Jim McCallan 30 Mar 04 - 08:45 AM
Jim McCallan 30 Mar 04 - 08:46 AM
Lil Dog Turpy 30 Mar 04 - 08:46 AM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Mar 04 - 10:49 AM
GUEST,eileen 30 Mar 04 - 12:02 PM
GUEST 30 Mar 04 - 03:14 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Mar 04 - 03:54 PM
iancarterb 30 Mar 04 - 11:40 PM
GUEST,eileen 31 Mar 04 - 04:50 AM
kendall 31 Mar 04 - 07:46 AM
GUEST,eileen 01 Apr 04 - 04:17 AM
GUEST,Crystal 01 Apr 04 - 05:36 AM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Apr 04 - 05:48 AM
GUEST,Crystal 01 Apr 04 - 05:51 AM
harvey andrews 01 Apr 04 - 06:24 AM
GUEST,Why 01 Apr 04 - 06:55 AM
DG&D Dave 01 Apr 04 - 07:43 AM
mooman 01 Apr 04 - 08:41 AM
RichM 01 Apr 04 - 09:42 AM
GUEST 01 Apr 04 - 09:56 AM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Apr 04 - 10:14 AM
Strollin' Johnny 01 Apr 04 - 10:25 AM
GUEST 01 Apr 04 - 10:55 AM
Strollin' Johnny 01 Apr 04 - 03:05 PM
Emma B 01 Apr 04 - 03:16 PM
Strollin' Johnny 01 Apr 04 - 03:38 PM
Joybell 01 Apr 04 - 05:44 PM
harvey andrews 01 Apr 04 - 05:55 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Apr 04 - 05:56 PM
Strollin' Johnny 02 Apr 04 - 03:00 AM
Roger the Skiffler 02 Apr 04 - 03:13 AM
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Subject: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Fergie
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 10:50 AM

Today is the first day of the smoking ban in pubs in Ireland, I'm looking forward to going for a few pints of stout in a clean atmosphere tonight, I quit smoking 13 years ago. Any suggestions for a topical song that might go down well at the first smoke free session of the Góilín singers circle next Friday?
Fergus


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 10:54 AM

"Ciggy song" by harri watts band


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:13 PM

The right tune would maybe be "A Pinch of Snuff".


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:16 PM

Dear Tobacco(tune recorded by the Boat Band, no strangers to Goleen).
Mollie Wimbley(she smokes like a chimbley) by the Singing Postman
Tobacco is an Indian Weed


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:37 PM

Oh, it's going to be so great! No more coming home with hair and clothes stiff with reeking tobacco smoke, no wheezing as you savour your pint - and best of all, no humiliating attempts to scrounge a fag when the taste of a few pints has lowered your moral tone!


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:39 PM

Way to go Ireland!


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Big Tim
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 03:20 PM

"Cigarettes and Whiskey and Wild, Wild Women"?

Of course the ban is not just in pubs but in all work places, restaurants, etc.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Big Tim
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 02:51 AM

I'll sing you a song, a smoke-free song,
With breathing, choke-free chorus,
For to smoke a blazing fag is wrong,
Tis smoke-free heavens o'er us,
Impatient for the coming fight,
We demand clean air as our birthright,
Here in a fog free Irish night,
We will chant a choke-free song!

If only I could think of a tune...


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 05:38 AM

You may celbrate now, non-smokers. But it's alcohol next. The health nazis will not be satisfied with one small sacrifice.
"Once you have paid them the Danegeld
You never get rid of the Dane"


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:20 AM

You don't get secondary drinking any more than secondary snuff-taking. Smoking is a peculiar type of a habit that imposes itself on other people, and that's why there's a case for treating it differently.

Mind, the other thing like that, which does impose itself on people in the same room is singing and music. But I think that should be reasonably safe in Ireland anyway. (Maybe one can envisage some test case involving bodhrans.)

I'm pretty sure that native ingenuity will find ways to ensure that this change has interesting unforeseen outcomes. I gather that there's a big vogue for outdoor patio heaters and gazebos in Irish pub car parks now. All the ciggy smokers and th dope smokers huddled uo together roun the little pot stove...

Snuff taking, and nicotine inhalers with Celtic Crosses engraved on them - that'll be all the rage soon enough.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:27 AM

I regard getting run over or beaten up by drunks as secondary drinking, McGrath. I hope you are right that Irish ingenuity will enable a good time to be had by all in Ireland in the future, and not just by the virtuous.
   I write as a non-smoker.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:11 AM

But those kinds of "secondary drinking" are already illegal, greg.

There used to be signs in buses and pubs saying "no spitting". Perhaps that was the thin end of the wedge. But generally most people seem to understand that the undoubted human right to spit is one that is not best exercised in such places. Though I've sometimes thought that combined "No smoking, no spitting" signs might be quite a good idea.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:23 AM

I regard getting run over or beaten up by drunks as secondary drinking

Remind me never to go in the pubs that you frequent, Greg;-)

I live almost in inner city Salford and while some of my watering holes may be considered safer than others I have never been beaten up or run over by drunks, thankfully, in my 35 years of propping up bars!

Secondary effects of folk music? Now that IS a different kettle of bold fishermen...

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:26 AM

I remember the signs saying "No spitting" or "Ná caitear sealach" (sp. ?)on the buses of my youth. The point, of course, was that it was at the height of TB prevalence in Ireland.

Regards

p.s. Arrived back from Edinburgh late last night - so haven't had a chance to see how its working out. Have to go out for a pint tonight - purely for research purposes, of course.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: el ted
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:31 AM

I smoke.No point going to Ireland for a holiday now then!


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:46 AM

RTE interviewed a couple sitting smoking outsde a Pub, they were not pleased, in fact they said they were heading overthe Border to Derry, to smoke in the comfort of a warm Pub, they were both from England.
It is one of the best things the Dail has ever done, come on Tony hit them UK smokers with you Hand-bag.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,earthling
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:49 AM

The publican from Gogarty's was on the news, saying he thinks their takings will drop by 25/30%. Forecast unemployment etc.

I am betwixt and between on this one.....I do know my way around a Marlboro Light but also have no objections to the ban. I accept peoples objections to smoking more than I accept my occasional need to indulge.

Is the ban just in the South?


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,eileen
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:54 AM

I can understand a ban on smoking in the general workplace but a pub?!!! Come on people...it's one of the last refuges. If you don't want secondary smoke..find a pub with a non-smokers lounge. If you don't want to work where there is secondary smoke...get a job at a hospital.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:57 AM

No ban in Northern Ireland - maybe there might be some pubs up there where they'll ban smoking as a practical act of Irish re-unification? And chain-smoking Orange marches, as a gesture of No Surrender...


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Jim McCallan
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 08:45 AM

Johnny Fox's has a bus outside that employees are not allowed into. Customers are under the obligation to keep the place themselves.

Where there's a will.....

Jim.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Jim McCallan
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 08:46 AM

keep the place tidy, themselves, I mean...


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Lil Dog Turpy
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 08:46 AM

In Vancouver, when smoking inside restaurants and bars was made illegal it was pointed out that drinking in public was already illegal so in all likelihood there would be a lot of people standing in the doorways of the pubs :-)


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 10:49 AM

Will this be enforced in the Irish theme pubs all over the world? If not will they have to stop pretending to be "authentic"?


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,eileen
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 12:02 PM

Johnny Foxe's owner was on the telly last night maintaining that he would be ..er..maintaining the cleanliness of aforementioned bus...much to the enjoyment of his staff.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 03:14 PM

Smokers of the world - IGNITE


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 03:54 PM

"Why don't you smoke off..."

I imagine there are going to be various social innovations such as Smokeasies and Smoking Shebeens. The old private party in the back room that is party of the landlord's house will coem back into vogue...

One interesting point which doesn't appear to have had much attention is that apparently the legislation only covers tobacco. According to this site the Cigarette Machine Operators Association has imported one million aromatic cigarettes ahead of the ban.

That could be interesting. "No, no, this isn't tobacco, it's an alternative smoking mixture!" "Well, that's all right than - you had me worried for a moment."   I wonder how aromatic those ciggies are going to get...

"Publicans themselves will have to be sure the cigarettes do not contain a tobacco product and then it's up to them whether they wish to actually allow the smoking of them or not," said Valerie Robinson of the Office of Tobacco Control.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: iancarterb
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 11:40 PM

The thing the smokers have trouble getting: there have never been two people in a room and only one of them smoking. Smoking and singing don't mix. Smoking and breathing don't mix. Many people will start going out to jams again if they don't have to smoke as part of the price. It's happened in every city that has banned smoking in bars and restaurants.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,eileen
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 04:50 AM

I played my first gig last night, since the smoking ban was implemented. There were fewer people there and there were congregations of smokers standing just outside the door of the pub. In looking up and down the street I saw duplicates of this "congregation" in front of all the pubs. What that boils down to in my mind is taking a bunch of drunks and putting them outside every 15 minutes or so...people who would normally never speak to one another..people who have aggressive tendencies due to the amount of alcohol they have consumed. Another concern is unescorted females being forced to join this lot.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: kendall
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 07:46 AM

...unescorted females FORCED to join this lot? by whom?


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,eileen
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:17 AM

Forced by their unfortunate need or desire to have a cigarette.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:36 AM

Solution!
Make cigarettes taste so foul that no-one will want to ever smoke again!

Nicotine addiction is a nasty thing.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:48 AM

"Make cigarettes taste so foul that no-one will want to ever smoke again!"

Surely they couldn't taste worse than many do already.

And nicotine addiction is a side issue - if that was the only habit involved, there are plenty of other ways of taking nicotine which don't involve issues such as secondary smoking. And there is also a matter of territoriality. Lighting up and blowing out the smoke can be a way of dominating a room.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:51 AM

True.
Maybe the idea of grusome pictures on fag packets might be good. I've seen some horrible pictures on my course, it's enought to put you off breathing, let alonde smoking.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: harvey andrews
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:24 AM

Great story of an irish politician smoking in the bar in protest and being immediately sacked from his party's front bench. That's the way to treat the anti-social buggers!


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,Why
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:55 AM

Why in Gods name do some smokers think they are so high and mighty. I've had one friend and one relative die from cancer both at relatively early ages, 39 and 48, both leaving wives and children. They both had cancer caused from smoking, secondary smoking in one case. When people say "they don't have to go in pubs" it makes my blood boil, they wanted to go in pubs and other places that allow smoking and have paid the ultimate penalty - DEATH. If someone invented smoking today would it be allowed to happen, I don't think so.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 07:43 AM

The Motor Car has killed more people than smoking ever will.
I just wish the politicians would take the bull by the horns and tackle the big problems before the little ones!


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: mooman
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 08:41 AM

Well done Ireland! I look forward to joining in sessions there again.

Let's hope some other European countries have the sense to do this.

And for some smokers (quite a number are sympathetic to non-smokers)...if I enjoy a pint and a chat and maybe a session why do I have to inhale the waste products of what you choose to do?

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: RichM
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 09:42 AM

When a citywide smoking ban (applying to public places, including restaurants and bars) became law here (Ottawa, Canada) the very same grumbling about infringement of rights started up. That was a couple of years ago.

I am a non-smoker who had given up playing gigs in bars because of the smoke.
Now, smokers smoke outside, and air is fresher inside. I once again can enjoy doing gigs in bars.

I don't have to breathe stale smoke (and singers breath a lot of it in bars), or wash my clothes immediately when i go home.Not to mention the benefit for my lungs. No more yellow phlegm in the morning from second hand smoke.


My advice is relax, Ireland. It'll settle down within a few weeks.

Rich McCarthy


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 09:56 AM

Norway soon to follow suit, 1st June, I think.

Previously they had tried having smoking and non-smoking areas in the pubs. That was about as successfull as having a non-peeing end in a swimming pool, so they opted for the total ban.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 10:14 AM

The Motor Car has killed more people than smoking ever will.

That isn't om fact true by a long way. The estimated number of people dying every year from smoking related diseases is far far higher than the number killed on the roads. Which doesn't mean that killings on the roads should be seen as inevitable and acceptable. (Even aside from the fact that motor cars pollute the place as well.)


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 10:25 AM

I agree with you DG&D Dave, let's ban cars. Then people won't be able to get to work so they won't earn any money, therefore they won't be able to afford their fags. Problem solved - the end justifies the means!

Dave old lad, despite the down-side of cars (and I know all about it so don't bother regaling me), they do have a certain social and economic benefit for their users. What social and economic benefits do cigarettes bring to those who poison themselves and others with their smoke? Just wondering....

Johnny :0)


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 10:55 AM

SJ "What social and economic benefits do cigarettes bring to those who poison themselves and others with their smoke?" simple answer NONE, but it leads too DEATH in some cases


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:05 PM

GUEST (Anon) - I fear you misunderstand. My comment was a response to another posting which stated that cars should be banned rather than cigarettes because they cause far more deaths than cigarettes. My point is that, whilst SOME good comes from the use of a car, NONE WHATSOEVER comes from smoking. So we agree. Agreed?

Johnny :0)


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Emma B
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:16 PM

OK - I am a smoker but I hope a considerate one. May I please make a plea as an (allergic) asthmatic for people to desist wearing quanties of foul smelling perfumes and deoderants in public places making them not only very unpleasant but "out - of - bounds" as far I'm concerned and, incidently, far more immediately dangerous than the secondary effects of smoking!


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:38 PM

Emma, surely it's highly irresponsible for a person with a serious respiratory problem to fill their lungs with a poisonous and carcinogenic substance? Far more irresponsible than it is for me to use after-shave?

I'm very sympathetic to your problems but it's a red herring to introduce the perfume argument when you're determined to kill yourself by smoking anyway.

A saddened Johnny :0(


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Joybell
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:44 PM

I've never chosen to actively smoke. In 1962 I began my work in a hospital. Everyone smoked in there - staff and patients alike. "You can't ban smoking" they said, "It makes the misery a little easier to take". Smoking wasn't banned in hospitals in Australia until the late 1980s. From 1970 I also worked in an office and in restuarants as a singer. By the time I was 30 I was beginning to get attacks of asthma. "Find another job", they said, "If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen". Until the 1980s when things - very slowly! began to change there were no smoke free work places, no smoke free public places to meet friends. Only theatres were smoke free. Not before time that the change has come, I say. Joy


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: harvey andrews
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:55 PM

Apparantly business in new York bars and restaurants is about 10% since the ban as shown by the amount of a tax similar to VAT that has been paid recently by these businesses.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:56 PM

Let's hear it for all men who unselfishly put up with all the inconvenience and accompanying stigmatisation, for doing their bit for the environment by dispensing with perfumes and deoderants, so as to avoid polluting the place. And especially those of us who grow beards, thus avoiding the use of aftershave.

It seems to me that male folk musicans are making a significant contribution in this way.


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:00 AM

Hey there Mac, I've got a beard but I still use A/Shave on the bits I still shave - my neck and cheeks (no you daft sod, the ones on my face!). I'd rather smell like a whore's handbag than a two-day-old cheeseburger. :0)
Cheers M'Dears,
Johnny


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Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:13 AM

I'll be interested to hear how it works, especially in country areas where I understand the licencing regulations are already, shall we say, elastic... with the local gardai turning a blind eye.
How has it worked in US cities? Do the police resent having to enforce it? Or do civilian inspectors have responsibility? US fiction always implies fire and health inspectors are routinely bought off by businesses...?

RtS
(perhaps I read the wrong books...)


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