mudcat.org: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4]


Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?

DigiTrad:
DIRTY OLD TOWN


Related threads:
Dirty Old Town - pop single 1959! (27)
Help: Dirty Old Town? Meaning??? (324)
(origins) Origins: Help with 'Dirty Old Town,' please,... (27)
Dirty Old Town gasworks going :-( (32)
Dirty New Town? (5)
Who wrote ' Dirty Old Town ' (120)
Lyr Add: Dirty Old Town - new verse (10)
Chords Req: Dirty Old Town (25)
Tune Req: Dirty Old Town and need some more notes (2)
Chords Req: Dirty Old Town - mando tab (7)
Lyr Req: First line of Dirty Old Town (11)


Shimbo Darktree 06 Feb 04 - 10:13 PM
Skipjack K8 06 Feb 04 - 09:26 PM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 06 Feb 04 - 09:05 PM
Snuffy 06 Feb 04 - 08:10 PM
jacqui c 06 Feb 04 - 05:00 PM
GUEST,Rory 06 Feb 04 - 02:14 PM
curmudgeon 06 Feb 04 - 02:03 PM
moocowpoo 06 Feb 04 - 12:26 PM
Kevin Sheils 06 Feb 04 - 05:09 AM
George Papavgeris 06 Feb 04 - 03:28 AM
moocowpoo 06 Feb 04 - 01:16 AM
Dave Hanson 05 Feb 04 - 08:39 AM
fiddler 05 Feb 04 - 07:36 AM
cobber 04 Feb 04 - 05:52 PM
GUEST,Henryp 04 Feb 04 - 05:13 PM
Ed. 04 Feb 04 - 05:11 PM
skarpi 04 Feb 04 - 05:08 PM
Ned Ludd 04 Feb 04 - 05:03 PM
Ed. 04 Feb 04 - 04:17 PM
nutty 04 Feb 04 - 02:44 PM
Art Thieme 04 Feb 04 - 02:23 PM
GUEST,anon outsider 04 Feb 04 - 02:21 PM
Eugene Judge 04 Feb 04 - 02:20 PM
Barb'ry 04 Feb 04 - 02:10 PM
GUEST,Henryp 04 Feb 04 - 02:00 PM
ard mhacha 04 Feb 04 - 01:42 PM
GUEST,Bill Kennedy 04 Feb 04 - 12:53 PM
Noreen 04 Feb 04 - 12:52 PM
IanC 04 Feb 04 - 12:44 PM
Dave Bryant 04 Feb 04 - 12:44 PM
GUEST,Bill Kennedy 04 Feb 04 - 12:42 PM
Malcolm Douglas 04 Feb 04 - 12:38 PM
GUEST,Bill Kennedy 04 Feb 04 - 12:35 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 04 Feb 04 - 12:34 PM
IanC 04 Feb 04 - 12:33 PM
GUEST,Len Wallace 04 Feb 04 - 12:33 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 04 Feb 04 - 12:32 PM
Brakn 04 Feb 04 - 12:30 PM
The Borchester Echo 04 Feb 04 - 12:22 PM
Mrs.Duck 04 Feb 04 - 12:22 PM
GUEST,Bill Kennedy 04 Feb 04 - 12:22 PM
GUEST,Len Wallace 04 Feb 04 - 12:20 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:








Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Shimbo Darktree
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 10:13 PM

Rosebery (Tasmania). MacColl did a concert there, and they held a wedding reception in the other half of the 'phone booth.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:26 PM

Wollongong is a dirty old town, come to think of it. Never been to Salford, so can't say. It definitely isn't Milton Keynes. It's a smokeless zone.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:05 PM

Oh for f**k's sake...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Snuffy
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 08:10 PM

... be sure to dream by the old canal


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: jacqui c
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 05:00 PM

OK - it's Salford, but in this part of the world we call it the Stevenage Song. If you've ever been to Stevenage......


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: GUEST,Rory
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 02:14 PM

Interesting that you should mention his military career, Curmudgeon. Does anyone know what he did during World War II? His autobiography appears to ignore that part of his life.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: curmudgeon
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 02:03 PM

In case anyone needs more evidentiary support:

I never was out of Salford Town, the place where I was born,
Except when I was in the ranks and wore a uniform.
But I'd sooner never travelled if the only way to see
The world was through the battlesights of a Mark IV 303.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: moocowpoo
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 12:26 PM

no it shouldn't, I've thought about it, it's really Wollongong


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 05:09 AM

Mornington Crescent!

That should finish it ;-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 03:28 AM

SALonika...not!
what chance of passing on the tradition, when some Doubting Thomases refuse to accept existing knowledge...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: moocowpoo
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 01:16 AM

it's about Canberra


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 08:39 AM

It's feckin SALFORD. End of discussion,
eric


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: fiddler
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 07:36 AM

It can't be Cleveland UK as that is a region containing such towns as Stockton on Tees, Middlesborough, Esten and many others all subject of Garbut songs form time to time!

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: cobber
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 05:52 PM

It's a bit late to get into this argument as it's been pretty well settled. We did a festival in 1979 with McColl and the song came up in conversation as our bass player was from Salford and he'd always said the song was from his town. (By the way these days it's just a suburb of Manchester the way the cities keep growing)McColl confirmed to us that he had written the song about Salford. Ah! Cry the doubters; but he coud have just been being nice to the bass player. Anyway, later that year we were in England and we went there to visit our bass player's relations etc and the one thing we noticed was the lack of racial tension. It was so bloody cold everyone was blue!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: GUEST,Henryp
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 05:13 PM

Saw a train set the night on fire

One of the great descriptive lines!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Ed.
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 05:11 PM

Thanks, skarpi! *grin*


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: skarpi
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 05:08 PM

Salford


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Ned Ludd
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 05:03 PM

Cleveland U.S?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Ed.
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 04:17 PM

Thanks for that, Nutty.

I'd doubt that Salford provided "most of the information" for Engels book, he looked at lot of places around (what is now) Greater Manchester. But those are questions for political historians or pedantic geographers.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: nutty
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 02:44 PM

DIRTY OLD TOWN (1949)

"This superb song was written to cover a scene change in a play which was set in Salford, Lancashire, the city which provided the philosopher Friedrich Engles with most of the information for his book The Condition of the Working Class in 1844. The gasworks croft was situated somewhere along that desert highway called Liverpool Street."

Quoted directly from The Essential Ewan MacColl Songbook


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 02:23 PM

Cleveland !!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: GUEST,anon outsider
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 02:21 PM

Right children stop squabbling! lets all agree that it's S A L F O R D !
Now then Dat was easy peasy wannit!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Eugene Judge
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 02:20 PM

No doubt about it:

Written in 1946 for a Theatre workshop production, 'Landscape With Chimneys', a documentary play about Salford, Lancs.

I recall finishing off in our local session when a young man said.
"Your not packing up without playing my favourite Irish song are you?"
"What's that?"
"Dirty Old Town"

He looked a little suprised when I told him of its origins.

Eugene


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Barb'ry
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 02:10 PM

Well, Guest Bill Kennedy (?aka troll) you can argue, ponder, postulate and consider to your heart's content.... but the answer is still Salford!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: GUEST,Henryp
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 02:00 PM

Although Salford now forms part of Greater Manchester, the County Palatine of Lancashire still remains for some administrative purposes. Magistrates here are appointed by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster rather than the Lord Chancellor. Salford can still consider itself Lancastrian, just like Ewan MacColl!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 01:42 PM

Salford, I heard Dominick Behan singing this song on a Third Programme broadcast as long ago as 1957, and dear old sunny Salford was stated to be the town.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:53 PM

I've read it, and never have seen a reference to McColl himself SAYING it was about Salford, though I know it was written about a play about a town like Salford. poets and writers often write things that are intentionally ambiguous, and based on thier experience, and he is successful in that the song fits the experience of many an industrial town. I'm not arguing about anything, just pointing out that a writer should not always be taken so literally. Just because he grew up in Salford doesn't mean he could have been writing about ANY industrial city.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Noreen
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:52 PM

Ewan MacColl was born and brought up in Salford, where his song is set.

Bill Kennedy: some say Sheffield as the source. Many people say it's about Dublin too, but that doesn't mean they're right!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: IanC
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:44 PM

Bill

If you read some of th information readily available on this site, you'll find out that MacColl wrote the song for a scene change in a play about Salford which he wrote. Since MacColl, elsewhere, said that the song was about Salford, do you need to keep arguing about it?

Wouldn't it be better to read the information that's available first?

;-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:44 PM

The third verse is often sung

Smelt the spring on the Salford wind.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:42 PM

no, needn't go over it again, but just because someone was born and lived somewhere doesn't mean he couldn't write a song about somewhere else, does it? just reporting what I've seen in print, and yes they could be wrong


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:38 PM

They would be wrong. MacColl was born James Miller in Salford, and grew up there. Do we really need to go over all this again?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:35 PM

bad memory, not AUld Reekie;
I've seen Salford, but also some say Sheffield as the source;


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:34 PM

near Manchester, Lancashire.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: IanC
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:33 PM

near Manchester

:-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: GUEST,Len Wallace
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:33 PM

please forgive my ignorance. If it is Salford, where exactly is Salford (or a good approximiation)?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:32 PM

Salford.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Brakn
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:30 PM

Salford


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:22 PM

Salford.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:22 PM

I expect Salford.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:22 PM

Edinburgh, I remember?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Which Town is MacColl's Dirty Old Town?
From: GUEST,Len Wallace
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:20 PM

Hey Mudcattanites,

Ewan MacColl's song, Dirty Olf town was written in 1956.

Does anyone know which town he was refering to 9if any)?

Thanks.

Len Wallace


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 10 July 3:28 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.