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Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw

Richard Mellish 10 Feb 19 - 05:37 PM
wysiwyg 10 Feb 19 - 09:12 AM
Seamus Kennedy 10 Feb 19 - 02:10 AM
leeneia 07 Feb 19 - 10:35 AM
Thompson 06 Feb 19 - 06:49 AM
wysiwyg 04 Feb 19 - 09:06 AM
rich-joy 04 Feb 19 - 12:18 AM
Bill D 03 Feb 19 - 09:49 PM
Jeri 03 Feb 19 - 06:44 PM
Joe Offer 03 Feb 19 - 03:34 PM
leeneia 03 Feb 19 - 02:24 PM
leeneia 02 Feb 19 - 04:51 PM
GUEST,Andy7 02 Feb 19 - 03:59 PM
meself 02 Feb 19 - 03:41 PM
GUEST 02 Feb 19 - 03:33 PM
meself 02 Feb 19 - 01:07 PM
GUEST,Jim Knowledge 02 Feb 19 - 11:43 AM
wysiwyg 02 Feb 19 - 09:48 AM
Senoufou 02 Feb 19 - 05:49 AM
GUEST,Rev Bayes 02 Feb 19 - 05:21 AM
leeneia 02 Feb 19 - 02:56 AM
GUEST 01 Feb 19 - 06:49 PM
GUEST,Tony 12 May 11 - 11:26 AM
MorwenEdhelwen1 11 May 11 - 05:22 PM
beeliner 15 Aug 10 - 03:58 PM
Taconicus 15 Aug 10 - 10:07 AM
Taconicus 15 Aug 10 - 09:59 AM
GUEST,uncle Rumpo 15 Aug 10 - 12:40 AM
GUEST,Songbob 15 Aug 10 - 12:10 AM
GUEST,s 14 Aug 10 - 07:09 PM
GUEST,Lindagail 14 Aug 10 - 09:11 AM
beeliner 08 Aug 10 - 01:15 PM
Ebbie 08 Aug 10 - 12:03 PM
GUEST,Lonnie 07 Aug 10 - 02:10 PM
GUEST,Alice 15 Aug 09 - 08:28 PM
kendall 06 Feb 09 - 07:19 PM
GUEST,AJ 06 Feb 09 - 07:11 PM
Sleepy Rosie 27 Nov 08 - 06:55 AM
trevek 31 Oct 08 - 06:57 AM
meself 30 Oct 08 - 06:51 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 30 Oct 08 - 04:04 PM
Roger in Baltimore 30 Oct 08 - 04:02 PM
Dave Swan 30 Oct 08 - 02:52 PM
Roger in Baltimore 30 Oct 08 - 02:21 PM
Dave Swan 29 Oct 08 - 03:13 PM
Roger in Baltimore 29 Oct 08 - 01:50 PM
Midchuck 28 Oct 08 - 08:10 PM
GUEST,Jim 28 Oct 08 - 07:02 PM
Colin Randall 27 Oct 08 - 03:15 PM
meself 27 Oct 08 - 02:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 05:37 PM

> Feel absolutely free to sing this song about a father beating his daughter.

> I won't be going to any of your performances after that, though.

Does the same apply to someone singing Mill o'Tiftie's Annie? Or is that OK because the narration is on Annie's side and (mildly) critical of her family ("Woe be tae her brither")?

Or what about the ballads (two of them) where a Scots girl is burnt at the stake for refusing to abandon her love of an Englishman?


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 09:12 AM

And I'd boycott anyone doing what Godfrey did. Read up on Ragen Chastain FMI, esp her work on misfiagnoses.


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 02:10 AM

Arthur Godfrey also had a hit with the “Too Fat Polka”.


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: leeneia
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 10:35 AM

I'm with you, Rich-joy, Wysiwig and Thompson.


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Feb 19 - 06:49 AM

Feel absolutely free to sing this song about a father beating his daughter.

I won't be going to any of your performances after that, though.


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Feb 19 - 09:06 AM

Part of the societal problem we've all inherited is that saying what's funny is up to the power group, not the members of the group over whom they hold power-- institutional, structural power.

As a woman, my tolerance for this sort of song and its title, and a discussion of it, will directly relate to how many times I've been hurt on any given day at the hands of male power. My daily experience of that doesn't leave much room to see humor about it. Today, zero.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: rich-joy
Date: 04 Feb 19 - 12:18 AM

It is perhaps, worth remembering :

•        That in 2018, Domestic Violence – in Australia alone – resulted in the deaths of 63 women.
•        That “DV” is NOT a thing of “days gone by” nor perpetrated just by “the lower classes” as has been postulated.
•        That it involves a multitude of races, creeds, colours, ages, alcohol/drug users & abstainers, sexuality orients, – & genders – over a wide range of socio-economic and educational stratum, living in most countries on the planet.

At this point, whilst considering the future of the world and its peoples, words fail me.
….. sigh …..

R-J (Down Under) - who is strongly considering not reincarnating on Earth next time round.

Oh, you want this to be a music post?? Hmmmmm.   Well, I s’pose Mike Waterson’s “A Stitch in Time” springs to mind (and Thomas Hardy’s related poem) – they’re both in Mudcat already!


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 09:49 PM

After 15 years we STILL have mixed opinions on the song. Some see it as a horrible example of touting totally unacceptable behavior... and some see it as mocking unacceptable behavior and painting a picture of what NOT to do. Some would sing it only after a disclaimer.

Some point at Arthur Godfrey and suggest that HE was semi=serious about it, while others note that Patsy Montana sang it... and others that it was even earlier.

Some note that many, many 'folk' songs relate behavior that is much worse, but that 'history' is sorta, kinda different from folks WE might know.
   
Me? I know an Irish song about glorifying ther murder of a member of the *other* religion. THAT one I only sing... rarely... as an example, because I heard it sung seriously almost 60 years ago. I would NEVER add it to a general session of Irish songs.
   ...so..I think this song, where, as someone points out, the girl gets advice about avoiding'Paw' is pretty innocuous by comparison.
Somehow, it all reminds me of debates about 'pornography', where ANY writings or images of intimate behavior are condemned by some and defended by others...


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 06:44 PM

The song seems to be a sort of screenplay where dumb-ass sons are ridiculed. It's making fun of the ignorant, sexist sons, and Bess wins in the end.

I think people who don't pay attention, or can't get the underlying meaning, are going to think the song's about the worst possible thing. The fact is, though, that we're living in a time of people who "don't get it" thinking they should be running things.

And for the record, I wouldn't sing this song because of them.


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 03:34 PM

Still, I think there is serious danger in whitewashing the past. Songs like this one must not be celebrated, but neither should they be hidden. We need to know about the cruelty of our ancestors.


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: leeneia
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 02:24 PM

and also...

Beware of pretend humor.

We're all smart enough to know what I mean.


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: leeneia
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 04:51 PM

"Folk song is a living museum of former times"

Well, no. A museum curator tries to preserve history and respect the truth. Music reflects what people thought (sometimes). It also reflects what composers thought would sell and what drunks thought was funny.

Meanwhile, I'm a free citizen of the free world, and I refuse to use my time, money and instruments to promote or condone bad things.


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: GUEST,Andy7
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 03:59 PM

There are so many countless thousands of songs to choose from, I'm not sure why anyone would spend the time and trouble learning and performing a song that an audience of today will find offensive and repulsive. Even if it was originally written as 'tongue in cheek' humour.

I agree, such songs can have valuable historical value. So let's keep them in the archives, as a resource to be studied by students of social history.


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: meself
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 03:41 PM

You are "meant" to find the attitude of the speaker, his family, his social group, so stupid as to be funny, with the assumption that collective mockery will in some small way ameliorate the situation - but you probably think that you're "meant" to find violence against women funny. Which is why I say black/gallows humour should not be presented to a general audience.


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 03:33 PM

It is difficult isn't it? The first song I ever sang in public was the Cooper of Fife. I was nine years old and had been stood on a table in the Miners Institute in Fife to do my party piece. The audience applauded the little English girl singing a traditional Scots song, joining in every syllable of the rollicking nonsense chorus. I think we all thought was about the wife getting what she deserved for being posh, snobbish, and lazy. I do not sing it these days, because I do not think wife beating is OK, or something to laugh at.
Many, perhaps most Child Ballads and a lot of traditional songs are about murder, war, or seduction. They do not necessarily condone it. None of the characters in Little Musgrave are particularly attractive, but it is a fine song.
One I have trouble with is The Two Magicians. I still sing it, as a terrifying song that shows that when you are being stalked, sometimes not even magic will save you, but some people feel it is on the side of the rapist.
I didn't know Slap her Down Again Paw until I read the lyrics her but is part of the problem that we are meant to find it funny?


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: meself
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 01:07 PM

Black/gallows humour is never appropriate for a general audience - most of your audience will not perceive the irony the way you (presumably) intend. And/or, irony or no, certain audience members will be reminded of personal trauma, which, presumably again, is not what you're after as a performer.


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 11:43 AM

I `ad Lesley from "Me Too" in my cab the other night. `ow did I know? She `ad it all over `er "T" shirt. She `ad a face like thunder and was tut-tutting quite loudly.
I said, " Evening Duchess, you just got a saucy post card from Weinstein or something?"
She said, "No Jim. Iv`e just come from that folk club up near Kings Cross. One of the singers did that Arthur Godfrey song, "Slap `er Down Again Paw". Most uncomfortable and misogynistic. Jim, you and your band `ave been on the circuit for years. You wouldn`t do songs like that, would you?"
I said, "We do worse than that. We do "Marrowbones"
She said, " Well, that`s not bad"
I said, "It is. `e pushes `er under the water with a barge-pole eventually!!"


Whaddam I Like??


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 09:48 AM

Leenia, I agree.


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 05:49 AM

Well said leeneia.
I'm usually the first to moan about political correctness, but some things go beyond what's acceptable and this is one of them.
Forced marriage and physical violence towards a young person? No.


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: GUEST,Rev Bayes
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 05:21 AM

Folk song is a living museum of former times, and sometimes the representatives of the past are no more welcome than the ducking stool. Therefore they must be framed appropriately.

But, I do think there is value in retaining them. When the shadow of domestic violence has entirely receded from the real world, how will people learn about how society tolerated it? Perhaps the Wee Cooper of Fife will enlighten them.


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: leeneia
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 02:56 AM

I have a simple test for this kind of thing. Change the victim from female to male and see if it's still funny.

For example, there's a parody that goes

Rudolph, with your gun so bright, won't you shoot my wife tonight?

Change that to this:

Rudolph, with your gun so bright, won't you shoot my SON tonight?

Suddenly it's sickening. Well, it was sickening before.


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Subject: RE: Is this song appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Feb 19 - 06:49 PM

Inappropriate.


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again
From: GUEST,Tony
Date: 12 May 11 - 11:26 AM

Inappropriate. The story as told in this song is not comical. There could be a funny song about the practice of disciplining an overly affectionate daughter, but comedy requires that the victim perseveres in spite of the adversity. In this song, we only hear of the beating, not that she goes off with the travelling salesman anyway. So our feeling about the subject matter is sadness, and the tone of the song should respect that, as in many traditional songs such as "The Trumpeter of Fyvie."


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 11 May 11 - 05:22 PM

I think that both this song and "Old Time Cat O' Nine"/Cat O"Nine Tails" by Lord Invader need an introduction before anyone sings them.


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: beeliner
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 03:58 PM

1. Apparently, this song reflects a time when white men in the South might go down to the "Negro district" to indulge in sexual dalliance with "loose women" there.

2. It was all about a little Christian boy who was lured away by a "Jewess" who proceeded to carve out his heart "with her little penknife," etc.


1. It's possible that some white men might have done that, but from the lyrics it sounds more than a minstrel show number, with the singer being black or in blackface. There were many such songs.

2. Well, this was a Child ballad, "Sir Hugh", popularized in the US by Nelstone's Hawaiians as "Fatal Flower Garden", and included in the Harry Smith anthology. By that time the Jewess had become a gypsy. Of course, neither group ever had such a ritual, but it makes an interesting song.


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Taconicus
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 10:07 AM

Err... make that
... still sung today in "barbershop" (male a cappella close four-part harmony) choruses..."
Dang voice-recognition dictation software!


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Taconicus
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 09:59 AM

Songbob is right, the song is another one of those examples of rampant classism that continues unabated in intelligentsia and progressive circles. It's very PC today to ridicule "rednecks" and conservatives. It's just not PC if the listener thinks the song is being serious about abusing women. But if it's understood as ridiculing "hillbillies" it's given a pass.

Race is the area in which folk music is most bowdlerized (or just censored outright) with very little, if any, discussion allowed. I'm not talking about racism specifically, but even songs that merely reflect the realities of racial separation in the past. For example, there's an old song that's very beautiful when sung in four-part harmony. I believe the title is After Dark. Here are the original lyrics:

After dark when everything is still
And the moon comes creeping o'er the hill
I'll be waiting patiently for you
'Cause I love you true
Yes indeed I do, my honey,

Come with me, along the Everglades,
Watch the darkies, how they promenade!
You're my ever loving queen of all the dusky maids.
You're my moonlight Lou [or Lill, or some similar-sounding name]

Apparently, this song reflects a time when white men in the South might go down to the "Negro district" to indulge in sexual dalliance with "loose women" there. It's not a mean-spirited song, but it reflects a very unsavory period of history as far as race relations is concerned. A very beautiful song, it's still song today in "barbershop" (male a cappella close four-part harmony) courses, but with different lyrics:

Come with me, along the Everglades,
Watch the folks, see how they promenade!
You're my ever loving queen of all the pretty maids...

Just two or three words changed, and the bowdlerization is complete! And the unpleasant history is forgotten.

The sensitivity to this sort of thing may be more pronounced in the United States than elsewhere. While over in Scotland about a decade ago I heard a classic "blood libel" folk song sung at a folk music club performance. It was all about a little Christian boy who was lured away by a "Jewess" who proceeded to carve out his heart "with her little penknife," etc. It was performed without any explanation or context, and received nice applause. No one (but me) seemed to think there was anything wrong with singing it without at least an explanation or proviso that it might not be factually based -- it's just good authentic folk music, don't you know!


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: GUEST,uncle Rumpo
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 12:40 AM

read none of these except yours "GUEST,Lindagail"..

ok..i get bruises from my younger wife.

she has a mean temperament..
made my bed, I can live with it..

but no way could i ever respect any man who violates women..

they are low life coward scum..


ps... "GUEST,Lindagail" would that be a Lewis family name by any chance.????

if so, you play a cool piano..


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 12:10 AM

Hmmm... That "s" is "Songbob."


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: GUEST,s
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 07:09 PM

The comment above about the 'hillbilly' aspect of this song is the clue. The whole point is to make fun of the unenlightened rural conservative folks that "aren't like us" (anymore), and was a staple of a time when the "post-war" was changing into the "boom times" of the 50s. It's instructive to remember that the old ways, which included strict child-rearing (and wife-beating), were giving way to many of the attitudes we see above -- "How could anyone think this funny?" and so forth.

You could probably make a list of other kinds of song that came out of such "change-times", not limited to "coon songs," "stage Irish songs," etc. If I were in graduate school again, it might be fitting for a thesis.

So remember the times and the reasons for this and similar songs.

Bob


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: GUEST,Lindagail
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 09:11 AM

I have read EVERY single post in this thread and my first reaction is "Wow, are these folks for real?" (especially guest AJ) First of all, one out of four women will experience domestic violence in their life. And I can tell you first hand that a huge percentage of those one in four will have come from a home that experienced domestic violence. So to answer your question, I think you might offend at the very least a quarter of your female audience.

I looked this song up because my aunt was almost killed in a beating by my grandfather as a young woman and my father (her brother) sang this song during the beating. And no these were NOT hillbillies, these were highly respected, prim and proper rural MN folks.

That abuse rolled down through the generations onto me as a child in the 50's and I can tell you I was horrified when I heard the words. I guess it is all perspective. As a survivor of serious physical child abuse, I was horrified as I read the words. Yes, it was a different time. And it needs to stay in that time.

To tell someone to lighten up or to make fun of their legitimate objections (example: This sycophantic belly-groveling ass-whining generation is just too uncool to have fun.) is insulting. (btw, you sir have not the slightest clue to "cool.") There is nothing funny about being beaten.
Lindagail
www.childabusestories.org


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: beeliner
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 01:15 PM

Arthur Godfrey wrote and performed a novelty tune called "Slap Her Down Again Paw"

Godfrey's version was a cover. The original was by Esmereldy and her Novelty Band, and the authors are listed on the label as Arnold, Cornell, and Asherman.

Godfrey, from many accounts, was a genuine American phony...folksy, friendly Uncle Arthur to the world...quite something else in private.

Virtually everyone who ever worked for or with Godfrey said that he was a rotten SOB, but he was also one of the great pioneers of radio broadcasting. While other announcers addressed 'the vast radio audience' as if they were hordes standing before them, Godfrey spoke to ONE PERSON - the average listener, usually female in the daytime. He may not have been the first to take this approach, but he was certainly the most successful.


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 12:03 PM

I've never heard the 'Slap Her Down Again' song but the sentiments - to me - reek of honor killings.

The only time I would sing it, I think, is when the group/song circle had devolved one after another into unrelentingly sad/cruel/unhappy/gory songs. That's what I do with 'Knoxville Girl'. It gets us onto a different genre, right quick.


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again
From: GUEST,Lonnie
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 02:10 PM

From what I have heard about Arthur Godfrey, these lyrics might not be as "playful" and "in jest" as one would think.
Godfrey, from many accounts, was a genuine American phony...folksy, friendly Uncle Arthur to the world...quite something else in private.
Steve Allen used to do a bit for years on The Tonight Show and beyond where he would read the lyrics of popular rock n roll songs in complete dead pan without music.
For example:

"Bee Bop A Loo La, She's My Baby"...long pause, (audience giggles)...
"Bee Bop A Loo La....I Don't Mean Maybe"...Allen looks at the camera
with an "are you kidding me?" look on his face and the live audience
bursts into laughter as he slowly shakes his head in apparent disgust.

Allen could have done something similar with this song.
Reading these lyrics without music, they look like they were written
by a demented hermit living somewhere in the Ozarks.


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: GUEST,Alice
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 08:28 PM

I too listened to this song as a child and found it very amusing. We would sing and dance along with it. Certainly I never approved of the behaviour espoused by it and the only influence it held for me was as a venue to laugh along with my friends at the absurdity of it.

The question might be rephrased: "Is this song appropriate for ----? (fill in the blank.) Kind of depends on the audience, I guess. But I'm inclined towards songs that might push a few buttons in almost any audience. If it gets under your skin at least you might be thinking about it some.

At any rate, I've appreciated the discourse on the subject and it's something to hear that others share similar memories of the song from childhood.


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: kendall
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 07:19 PM

Things have changed since 1948


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: GUEST,AJ
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 07:11 PM

Ask if it is appropriate and you give people the chance to ask themselves if they should be offended. If there is the remotest possibility that someone might say to them, "you should be offended," then they WILL be offended. We all want to appear sensitive to the raw exposed nerves of anyone who might publicly question whether we are bigots and find a reason to sue. If you were to ask me, I would tell you that America (in general) has a big honkin' chip on its shoulder and needs to lighten up. Far too much seriousness is made out of the trivial, and truly serious matters are regarded flippantly. This generation is not any better than the 50's generation although that is their main claim. Stereotypes are equally if not more vicious than those back then, they're just different. (Ask any blonde or a person of religious moral convictions). This sycophantic belly-groveling ass-whining generation is just too uncool to have fun. If they couldn't walk in lock-step, the weak-knee little germs would all fall down. Time and again history repeats itself. If a generation is marked with strength and courage, the successive generation is always replete with cowardice. They bully and puff their stuff about things that are inconsequential in order to appear "big". Hence all the Political Correctness Nazis. Get down to brass tacks and the blowhards are bound to pop off.

Reserve the good stuff for those who can best appreciate it. We're out there, and we know how to have a good time. The mentally balanced don't lash out over PATENTLY comedic fare such as this song.


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 06:55 AM

It's a funny song in a classically black humour way, but only because to contempory ears, it demonstrates such regressive attitudes of the times and of the people it describes - in which the content itself may indeed have once been considered funny.

The reason it was probably considered funny then, is to my mind, very didfferent to why it might be funny now.

Once, to many people the idea of severe child or spouse beating was a normal everyday occurrance. They were the people who were desensitised to their own behaviours. So maybe it was funny to them in a 'bawdy' way.

To my ears, the song is more like a kind of circus freak-show of grotesques. And has the effect of conjouring up equivalently freakish and very black-humour style images of duelling banjos, village lynchings, incestuous inbreeding, and nine year-old brides...


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: trevek
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 06:57 AM

I'd suggest it depends on HOW you sing it. If you sing it like you believe it's a good idea then perhaps not.

Mind you, I'm all for songs about slapping teenagers... shame it's only songs!


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: meself
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:51 PM

The tone of that one seems quite different from that of Slap Her Down Again, does it not?


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 04:04 PM

"The Holly Twig," or "A Bachelor Bold and Young," (and other titles) deals with proper and fitting punishment for a scolding wife-

Tuesday morning I carried her home;
I thought to my soul I'd have a wife of my own.
She wrinkled up her face and began to scold.
I never was scolded so in my life-time before.

Wednesday morning I went to the wood.
I thought to my soul she wouldn't prove good.
I got me a hickory, one that was green-
I thought it was the keenest I ever had seen.

Thursday morning I whipped her well;
I have no doubt I sent her soul to hell.
But if I have, I shall never repent
The time in whipping her that I have spent.

These verses are part of the old song, from a version collected in Mississippi by A. P. Hudson, 1926, JAFL vol. 39, no. 152, pp. 155-156.


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 04:02 PM

Maybe it's because we are both "old 'catters" on the "'cat".

Big RiB


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Dave Swan
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:52 PM

Thanks, Roger. This conversation reminds me of the days on the 'cat when a question could be asked and answered and the exchange would be civil and informative.

I see all of your points, particularly the one about being a counselor and having to watch what you sing. It'd be like me singing to promote arson.

Thanks again,

D


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:21 PM

Dave, It is a little bit the reference to dope, but more the "F" word. I don't exclude dope references in songs, but I tend to stay away from direct references. So, I will do a song with the line "That corn cob pipe he chewed on always smelled just a little funny."

As you might not know, I am a Licensed Clinical Alcohol and Drug Counselor in the State of Maryland and it is probably best that I not be seen as promoting drug or alcohol use. Like I say, it is all about you and what impact you want to have.

Roger in Baltimore


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Dave Swan
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:13 PM

So, just curious here, Roger. Is it the reference to dope itself or the term for it that offends you? I merely ask.

D


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 01:50 PM

As I read this thread, it reinforces a belief that gets stronger with time: songs can change what a person thinks and believes! I find that scary since one of my joys is to present music to others.

It also reminds me that not everyone "hears" songs the same. My wife listens to songs as a whole without focusing on the lyrics. She is often surprised when I tell her what a song is "about".   Ronald Reagen's staff used Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA" at rallies, probably because they only heard the title words and not the rest of the song.

So Shoo. You have to decide this question for yourself. Clearly, the reaction to the song will vary from person to person and therefore from audience to audience. As Clairebear explains, individual reaction may come from individual experience. The result is this. If you don't want to offend people with your songs, don't sing. You may never know who you have offended.

If you like a song that YOU have questions about, explore those questions yourself and come to some decision. I sing "Gotta Find a Woman with a Chainsaw" which includes a line about "Mendocino Thunder-Fuck". I don't like the line and I won't sing it. I wrote a substitute. The song was too good to waste. Yes, the song might still offend some people.

Dave Ray did a blues song "Killing Me by Degrees". One verse is "I feel like snapping a pistol, baby, in your face. You know that graveyard will be your resting place. This woman is killing me, baby, killing me by degrees". I probably would never aing it to a large group, but I might to song circle or group of friends. It reflects a feeling that resonates with me, not one that I would ever act upon but which I have felt in the past.

Finally, you need to consider just how many people you dare to offend. Your version of "This Land is Your Land" might very well offend someone with different beliefs.

What you sing is a reflection of you. So what ever you wish to sing is appropriate for you. Let me stand down from the soap box.

Roger in Baltimore


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again
From: Midchuck
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 08:10 PM

All the good songs are inappropriate by present standards. Every damn last one. I've lived too long.

Peter


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 07:02 PM

Although I love Billie Holiday, I still cringe whenever I hear
Ain't Nobody's Business If I Do.


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: Colin Randall
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 03:15 PM

I too cringed when I read the lyrics. If I could sing, I would choose not to sing it.

But I can see that with the right interpretation, it would come across - as McGrath points out in the most impressive, to me, contributions to this thread - as opposing the violence it describes,

But then, it also seems to be a case of whether it's generally sung at all, as opposed to simply being played as a tune. You only need to consult a good list of tune titles to see that we could end up with dozens more threads on what should nowadays be censored

Colin


Salut! Live


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Subject: RE: Is this tune appropriate?: Slap Her Down Again Paw
From: meself
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 02:20 PM

"Lay down the LAW", I believe.


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