Viola pegs slipping

Subject: Viola pegs slipping
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 07:56 AM

My viola pegs are slipping and I've read somewhere that soap and chalk will do the trick.

Any other recommendations out there?

Cheers
Sarah

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: smallpiper
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 07:58 AM

Isn't there some kind of product you can get for this something like peg slip or some such name, someone on this forum will know. Don't use rosin - I know some people do but it also comes with health warnings.

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: GUEST,Ned ludd
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 08:02 AM

It's peg paste Sarah, Hidersine do it, but it won't work if the pegs are badly fitting. How's it going with the Nickelharpa?
Dave.

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 08:10 AM

Years back (around the mid-60s!) a violinist friend suggested talcum powder. This was more to stop them sticking, but the principle's the same: wedge them in tight, but they'll turn more easily without sticking/jumping. This was in the days before (a) I discovered tuners and (b) I gave up trying to play the violin.

Steve

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 08:39 AM

Thanks folks, this is very very helpful - peg paste it will be.

Hi Dave, nyckelharpa going fine and there seems to be a population explosion of them in the UK at present (at least four and likely more of us getting together at Norwich fest in Feb for the Hedin workshop.

Cheers
Sarah

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: treewind
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 12:49 PM

Chalk yes, soap - no!

Soap is a famous practical joke to put your instrument into the condition it's now in!

Possibly also worth taking the pegs out and, if the friction surfaces are very shiny and smooth, roughening them slightly with some fine sandpaper. This will make the chalk stick better too!

Anahata

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 01:06 PM

chalk is the recommended treatment for wooden dulcimer pegs, so I suspect it is a pretty common and accepted method.

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 01:21 PM

I seem to recall lots of good lore on pegs in previous threads-- try a filter search on:

PEG

And go back a couple of years.

~S~

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 02:55 PM

The guy at our neighborly music store recommended Lava soap (which is gritty soap with pumice in it). Don't know if you put it on like salve or if you use it to rough the pegs up and rinse it off...

clint

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 03:36 PM

as Ned says "it won't work if the pegs are badly fitting"; sometimes you need the pegs adjusted and or the holes for them re-reamed

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: GUEST,HiHo_Silver
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 09:19 PM

And old method of keeping pegs from slipping from my area was to spit on them. This actually causes the pegs to swell slightly. If this seems a bit vuglar try a few small drops of water administered with a small eye droper or suitable instrument.

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: GUEST,Mr Bumble
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 09:46 PM

I was warned by experts not to do this, but never a disasterous broken pegbox-cheeks in many a year, I suppose it must be OK to do it.

Of a slack string, wind the first lose winding against the 'knob' side of the cheek on the pegbox; then, holding the losened string slightly tight, gradualy crimp it up the rest of the slack.

You could be holding the losed string in one hand and winding the peg with the other, which means that the fiddle needs be on a table; but, there are other ways to do this wee job.

Course, if you own an expensive fiddle then don't do it; instead, take the thing to a Luthier who should apply some treatment to the offending pegholes/pegs!


Hope that helps

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: NicoleC
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 11:28 PM

I recommend Hidersine Peg Dope. Any place that sells supplies for strings will know the stuff you are looking for, and it's pretty cheap (and lasts forever).

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 12:01 AM

Sometimes I wonder what planet you guys come from....

The solution is in your case....rosin dust and the scalp-oil that comes from your hair-line.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: cobber
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 01:25 AM

I've used plain old blackboard chalk now for thirty years and it's always worked for me. Here in Australia we get lots of variation in climate, sometimes three or four seasons in a day (it seems)This can cause a lot of variation in the grip of the peg, as can bouncing in the boot of the car in its case. My case also always contained a clothes peg which makes a very variable mute depending on where on the bridge you clamp it. You can be really quiet for rehearsing in motel rooms or just a bit dampened for sessions with quiet singers

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 01:46 AM

I worked up a comment here, and then lost my connection when I tried to post a few hours ago. For what it's worth:

The "fit" of the pegs in the hole is the most important determinant of whether the pegs move easily for tuning and hold their position when you "seat" them. If you're having problems that would justify anything other than the recommended peg paste, it's likely you could benefit from having the holes "trued," and possibly replacing a peg or two.

Either chalk dust or talcum is sometimes used to "extend the life" of a setup; but either will (according to some "experts" I've trusted) contribute to slightly faster wear, especially of the hole. Whether the damage done by one of these is enough to worry about depends largely on which expert you ask. It is a "given" that any wear will leave the hole not round, since the grain of the wood isn't as hard in one direction as crosswise to it.

Your best step would be to take your viola to your local "trusted repairman," and show him the peg that slips. He can then recommend whether "doping up" or re-seating the peg will be the most appropriate thing to do. Since the "trusted repairman" is a mythological beast about as easy to find as domesticated unicorns, you may have to search around a little; but establishing a relationship with one is worth a little work.

To posts intervening - the spit on the peg will tighten things up temporarily (and spit does work better than plain water), but since the expansion due to moisture is different cross-grain and with-grain, you assure that the hole won't be round ... soon.

I can recall helping a young fiddler fit a "tissue paper" shim around a peg that wouldn't hold - as an "emergency" fix just before a concert (slopped in place with peg paste). It happens I was the only one around with a pocket knife sharp enough to cut t.p. She, of course, promised to get it fixed as soon as we got through the concert, but I noted that the paper "shim" (or a subsequent replacement) was still in place at the next "annual" concert, and apparently still held the peg to her satisfaction. Nothin' wrong with what works, I suppose.

John

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: Bassic
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 09:15 PM

Best solution, propperly "fitted" pegs. Essential if using a "gut" string for which all the tuning is done by the peg. As a matter of habit, like Mr Bumble says above, I always wind my new strings on to the peg so they "push" the peg into its seat. After that it is a case of increasing the friction by removing the "shine" and adding a little chalk or talcum also works fine. If the instrument has any real "clasic" value though there is no substitute for propper fitting pegs.

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: bigchuck
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 09:53 PM

Before you try anything else, look closely at the hole in the peg that the string goes through. As pegs and pegbox gradually wear, that hole gets closer and closer to the inside edge of the pegbox. Eventually, it gets close enough for the string to actually rub against the pegbox, making it impossible to seat the peg fully, no matter how much goop you put on it. I usually (I maintain a fleet of rental violins for the local music store) just drill a new hole inboard of the old one (and at 90 degrees to it) which solves the problem for some time.

Sandy

Subject: RE: Viola pegs slipping
From: open mike
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 12:37 AM

if a luthier fixes lutes,
who fixes fiddles?
a fiddlier?
fe fi fiddlie i o