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Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding

Max 03 Oct 03 - 02:47 PM
Amos 03 Oct 03 - 02:55 PM
Mary in Kentucky 03 Oct 03 - 02:58 PM
C-flat 03 Oct 03 - 02:58 PM
Ron Olesko 03 Oct 03 - 02:58 PM
nutty 03 Oct 03 - 02:58 PM
open mike 03 Oct 03 - 03:03 PM
GUEST,MMario 03 Oct 03 - 03:06 PM
Bassic 03 Oct 03 - 03:08 PM
Max 03 Oct 03 - 03:09 PM
Charley Noble 03 Oct 03 - 03:10 PM
Bill D 03 Oct 03 - 03:15 PM
Mooh 03 Oct 03 - 03:15 PM
Bassic 03 Oct 03 - 03:16 PM
katlaughing 03 Oct 03 - 03:31 PM
katlaughing 03 Oct 03 - 03:32 PM
wysiwyg 03 Oct 03 - 03:32 PM
GUEST,MMario 03 Oct 03 - 03:35 PM
Harry Basnett 03 Oct 03 - 03:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Oct 03 - 03:45 PM
katlaughing 03 Oct 03 - 03:47 PM
John MacKenzie 03 Oct 03 - 03:48 PM
GUEST,MMario 03 Oct 03 - 03:49 PM
artbrooks 03 Oct 03 - 03:56 PM
Uncle_DaveO 03 Oct 03 - 04:00 PM
Max 03 Oct 03 - 04:05 PM
Padre 03 Oct 03 - 04:08 PM
Bassic 03 Oct 03 - 04:10 PM
Bill D 03 Oct 03 - 04:14 PM
Uncle_DaveO 03 Oct 03 - 04:14 PM
Bassic 03 Oct 03 - 04:15 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Oct 03 - 04:22 PM
Bassic 03 Oct 03 - 04:22 PM
Stilly River Sage 03 Oct 03 - 04:27 PM
GUEST,mg 03 Oct 03 - 04:34 PM
Max 03 Oct 03 - 04:45 PM
Barry Finn 03 Oct 03 - 05:14 PM
Bill D 03 Oct 03 - 05:15 PM
Bill D 03 Oct 03 - 05:19 PM
Liz the Squeak 03 Oct 03 - 05:20 PM
Bassic 03 Oct 03 - 05:21 PM
wysiwyg 03 Oct 03 - 05:22 PM
wysiwyg 03 Oct 03 - 05:25 PM
Bill D 03 Oct 03 - 05:29 PM
Deckman 03 Oct 03 - 05:30 PM
Clinton Hammond 03 Oct 03 - 05:32 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Oct 03 - 05:32 PM
Max 03 Oct 03 - 05:34 PM
MudGuard 03 Oct 03 - 05:38 PM
Big Mick 03 Oct 03 - 05:38 PM
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Subject: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Max
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 02:47 PM

I was going to wait another day or so to talk about it, but I will explain it now. I do business with Google a lot. I am a huge fan and supporter (and customer) of Google. They have given me great service and have helped the businesses I have associated them with immeasurably. Plus their search engine rocks. In short, can't say enough good about them.

So, while doing my usual business with them, I came across their service which they call AdSense, which is a relevance based ad system that pays per click. I signed up to see if their technology can work on the fly fast enough to keep up with our forum. Less than 2 days in, I am impressed with what it can do. It's not perfect, but a good percentage of the time, it can figure out a relevant ad to show for a particular topic of a thread or song. When it can't it puts up public service ads that we get no credit for. But public service is cool.

Most importantly, since I added that test code to the bottom of the thread message page and the bottom of the songs (now less than 24 hours), The Mudcat has raised $1.64. That is pretty easy money. So this morning I started asking questions like: What if I moved it to the top of those pages? What about other pages? What about my promise to not do banner ads? What if I posted a thread encouraging our users to be patient with their presence and to click them now and then?

Now, the reality of Mudcat is that we have our core members that spend a lot of time here, whom I care about very much. What we also have is millions of passersby that stop through every month. It's probably 80% strangers, but lets just say that 50% of the Mudcat traffic is members, and 50% is strangers. So the time and expense of running the Mudcat half due to anyone that might read this message, and half from people we know won't. Currently we're funded only from our members. Not quite fair, so maybe this is a way to balance the game.

Anyway, I just started thinking about this yesterday. So far, I can't ignore that in less than 24 hours, unannounced, and at the bottom of only 2 pages, we've already gotten 9,230 impressions, 15 clicks and $1.64.

So what do you think?


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Amos
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 02:55 PM

Well some of those clicks were from reg'lars trying to suss out what the experiment was! :>) But I won't object if they show up regularly, because intheir current trial location they are discreet, not intrusive. Just my $.02

A


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 02:58 PM

I can click!


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: C-flat
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 02:58 PM

I wouldn't be put off by a few sensibly placed ads and had already clicked on the "gorilla" one before reading this thread. So I would say YES, it makes good sense to get a little extra help with the funding, but too much advertising can be tiresome and can clutter up the site.
C-flat


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 02:58 PM

I vote yes! If it helps Mudcat, I can live with it.


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: nutty
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 02:58 PM

Max ..... anything that keeps this site up and running is OK by me.
I am great fan of Google as well, in fact I rarely use any other search engine.
I can't pretend that I understood everything you said but I have been on the site long enouh to know that you would not willingly do anything to damage Mudcat, so I trust your judgement. Go for it.


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: open mike
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:03 PM

we specialize in blickies it is
good that some can benefit our favorite cat!
i don't mind that it is sort of like a banner
go for it max!
a good way to get passers by to add to the "kitty"
those who get the good things from this site
but do not join or donate will now have a way to
add their .002 cents or however much...
glad to share the load!


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:06 PM

go for it Max!

is this one click per IP address per day - like many of the charity sites, or every click on an ad?


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Bassic
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:08 PM

Its descrete, relevant (to some degree), and brings in the cash. I say go for it.

"A few clicks a day keeps the crashes away!"


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Max
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:09 PM

MMario, I have not seen specific details on that, but I assume they are carefully monitoring the validity of clicks. Google is a large and successful company, so I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be able to trick them.


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:10 PM

Fine by me, just as long as I don't get a phone call at dinner.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:15 PM

*shrug*...I suspect that I can tolerate it and click a few if it helps..(and if I win the BIG lottery, you won't have to fret anymore!)


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:15 PM

I assume that if the arrangement doesn't work that you can get out of it, so I'd like to see anything which raises money for the Mudcat in a way which doesn't seem obtrusive. Besides, this place helped me through a very difficult period of my life and I have few resources to contribute in payment.

Bring it on, Max!

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Bassic
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:16 PM

Also, if it stays the same size, I am ok with it going to the top of the page, between the Mudcat logo and the Quick links Box? (Might need to shuffle things along a bit). If we are going to go for it, and so far most people seem ok with it, it might as well be seen so it can generate the maximum benefit.


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:31 PM

Max, as long as you can back out of it, if need be, AND, you maintain control of where they display, etc. I think it's a fine idea. Thanks for letting us know and asking for input.


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:32 PM

One question: if they come up with relevant clickies for CDs for songs, etc. will that include Dick/Camsco and Sandy/Folk Legacy?


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:32 PM

I'm for it, bigtime. Put it anywhere. Put it so it appears while the rest of the page is loading slowly. The only concern or caution I have, is that if any clicks lead to a spyware thing, I will be counting on our more savvy members around here to help guide in keeping current with spy-killing tactics. I don't care if Big Brother is watching-- I'll live with the concequences of what I post. But what I do care about is having so many pages pop themselves open when I'm doing music research here or elsewhere that I get carpal tunnel wrist from closing all those damn windows.

Some places have a paid-members option where they get pay to get their pages minus the ads. That sounds to me like too much detail crap to deal with on your end. But it's a thought you may find yourself considering eventually.

Take a look at http://www.cyclingnews.com to see a well-handled ad presence in a page design not too dissimilar from Mudcat's overall look. Lot of ads (some even blink), but they never seem to me to get in the way of the NEWS, and I am there as often as at Mudcat with no ill effect.

Because, you know, really, I don't mind knowing how to get a bigger penis. :~)

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:35 PM

Kat - from what I garnered doing a quick google on the program - only if Dick or Sandy were signed up as advertisers


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:36 PM

In full agreement, Max...


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:45 PM

No problem.

Right now the ads are for gorillas and babies, and I'm all for them any way. And google is about the only big-player on the Internet I feel happy with.

I already make a point of clicking on the hunger-sites magic buttons in any case, on the way to the Mudcat, so I can make a point of clicking on another coiple of buttons when I get here.

We know you take too much pride in the Mudcat to wreck it by overdoing this, and you wouldn't be doing it in the first place if it didn't need to be done. It's a matter of trust. (Mind, anytime now I imagine there'll be some cynical flamers posting here, but they know what they can do, I'm sure...)


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:47 PM

Thanks, MMario.

A suggestion, if they are to remain at the bottom of the "page" for those of us who'd want to do a Quick Click for that day's bennies for the Mudcat, put a link at the top, much like the Forum Home link, so we can swoop down there, click on them, then use the Forum Home to swoop back up.:-)

I can see a whole new realm of BS outta this....Have you done your Clicks/Clique/Clickies, today? Click today, pay the way!


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:48 PM

As long as it remains discreet, and we don't get any totally in appropriate content. Plus no spyware, and you whose judgement I trust have some control over what they can and can't shove at us. As someone who just got wormed I'm understandably cautious.
Giok


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:49 PM

not to mention complaints about the "Inner Clique" click group


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 03:56 PM

As a matter of religious conviction, I hate ads, but I can certainly live with the current, unobtrusive, ones. Any estimate on how much Mudcat would make if we went for it full time?


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 04:00 PM

Perhaps I'm going blind in my old age, but I've been unable to find the test messages. The only new things I find at the bottom of pages is the "Max is experimenting, please excuse" message. Can someone clue me in here?

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Max
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 04:05 PM

No spyware, no cookies, no pop-ups, Google is very reputable, we'll add extra ads for Dick and Sandy, we can back out any time, it won't disturb the design and flow of Mudcat, we can block any advertiser we want, and it doesn't effect load time.

We'll be trying it in a couple of places, Pene is working on that now. We can keep modifying our efforts till we reach maximum results and minimum annoyance.

Thanks everyone.


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Padre
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 04:08 PM

I support the project, Max. A good idea.

Padre


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Bassic
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 04:10 PM

Dave, directly underneath that message from Max there should be a small blue box, aprox 4" x 1" Containing 2 small messeges with blue "linked" titles.


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 04:14 PM

I have question...is a click a click as soon as the page begins loading? That is, does it count if I don't let the page finish loading? I do not know if the site can tell and how they monitor those things.


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 04:14 PM

Since reporting that I don't find the messages (Netscape 4.76), I tried getting on Mudcat with Internet Explorer, and with Netscape 7.0. The ads DO show up with those browsers, though not with Netscape 4.76.

From my own point of view, because I REFUSE to use IE for a number of reasons, and though I have Netscape 7.0, I don't use it because it doesn't access my files of back emails I have built up with 4.76.

Though this doesn't seem a live issue with me right now, I approve the addition of the ads, and would be sure to click on them from time to time if I could access them.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Bassic
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 04:15 PM

Or, perhaps Uncle DaveO is very subtly telling us he supports the idea by saying he dont "see" the ads? :-)


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 04:22 PM

We've always had "Blue Clicky Things"... Now there's a bit of bread in it for the Cat.


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Bassic
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 04:22 PM

OOps, that exolains that then!


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 04:27 PM

I had to make the same trip over to IE to see the ads, Dave. I've kept the old netscape because I like the communicator email and don't want to lose the files.

My Netscape has been having trouble with Mudcat today, though. It's like it "overshoots" the page I want and I see it briefly before it goes to a 404 message. I back click to the page I wanted.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 04:34 PM

sounds good to me. mg


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Max
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 04:45 PM

I did read that there are Netscape issues. But it seems close to 92% of our users use IE. We'll take it. If you don't see it, then you don't have to worry about it.


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:14 PM

Anything you want do Max is always been fine with me. After all you're running the show here & shelling out the dough for it.
Barry


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:15 PM

it works fine in Opera, Mozilla, Mozilla 'Firebird', K-Meleon and 4C-Vision

does NOT work in Off-By-One or Netscape 4.7X

I, also, will not open IE without a VERY compelling reason.


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:19 PM

92% use IE?? *sigh*, and they are SUCH a resonable bunch of folks otherwise....


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:20 PM

Well I can understand the gorillas but who wants another baby?!

LTS


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Bassic
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:21 PM

Hey, the ad moved!! :-)


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:22 PM

The box includes a link called "Ads by Google" where you can ask/comment about specific ads and/or the way the thing operates.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:25 PM

.... Hey, be sure it appears in huge type on the page where first-time visitors make a new thread requesting lyrics that have been posted here 90 zillion times, while yer at it! :~)

~S~


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:29 PM

that may be a better place for the ads....it's a 'little' startling at first, but...*shrug*


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:30 PM

Hmmm? Everyone knows that you, Max, obviously have the best interests of MUDCAT at heart.

I would suggest, as a very loyal and non-paying member, would suggest this: try it for a trial period. Do you have to sign up for a long term committment? As others have already commented, "can we get out of it if it doesn't work?"

As someone with a very curious mind (people have called me curious for years) I use google probably ten times a day.

Thanks muchly for you continuing efforts. Bob(deckman)Nelson


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:32 PM

I'm a loyal Nutscrape user, cause it beats IE in my book...

Got version 7.01 now, and the new stuff ticks over just fine and dandy Max!

Keep up the good work...


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:32 PM

So it's different ads according to the thread you have opened? And you can click on all the different ads? But you can only click usefully on the same ad once a day, even if it comes up with different threads?

Have I got that right?


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Max
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:34 PM

Well, we're up to $4.52 right now, and we're at about the 24 hour mark. That aint bad.

11,614 impressions, 29 clicks, and $4.52

Might be a good idea afterall. And we still haven't finished fiddling with it.

I sent google an email asking for better relevance, and they replied with:

Unfortunately at this time we do not offer targeted ads to pages with dynamic content or pages that are continually being updated and/or changed.

At this time, we are unable to control how often our crawlers index the content on your site. Crawling is done automatically by our bots. When new pages are added to your website or introduced to the AdSense program, our crawlers will usually get to them within 24 hours. If you make changes to a page, however, it may take up to 2 or 3 weeks before the changes are reflected in our index. Until we are able to crawl your web pages, you may receive irrelevant ads or public service ads for which you do not receive earnings. Hence, we are not encouraging placing ads on dynamic pages.

We offer a premium service, but currently we are only accepting sites that receive more than 20 million page views a month. In this program our sales team can help customize the AdSense program for your business. For more information go to: https://www.google.com/adsense/premium .

So, I suppose we'll get a lot of public service ads that won't pay anything, but that's OK, maybe we'll get karmic reward too.


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: MudGuard
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:38 PM

Max: es long as it stays like this (small in size, just text, no blinking images...) it is ok...

DaveO/BillD: the ad is realised as an iframe HTML element - Netscape 4.x does not understand this HTML element, therefore you can't see the ad in Netscape...

Andreas/MudGuard


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Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:38 PM

Max, my dear buddy, whatever will help you carry the load is fine. It is a simple equation. We love Mudcat, you need money to keep it afloat, we support whatever you need to do to keep it afloat.

BillD, I laughed like hell. I have told my family that if I ever catch a lotto, the first check is to Mudcat to let Max build and maintain whatever he wants.

Mick


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