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Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now

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Noreen 04 Jul 03 - 02:19 PM
Noreen 04 Jul 03 - 02:20 PM
Noreen 04 Jul 03 - 02:24 PM
Noreen 04 Jul 03 - 02:34 PM
Noreen 04 Jul 03 - 02:42 PM
Noreen 04 Jul 03 - 02:44 PM
Noreen 04 Jul 03 - 02:45 PM
The Shambles 04 Jul 03 - 03:06 PM
Noreen 04 Jul 03 - 03:08 PM
Harry Basnett 04 Jul 03 - 03:33 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Jul 03 - 03:48 PM
lady penelope 04 Jul 03 - 03:52 PM
John Routledge 04 Jul 03 - 05:04 PM
GUEST,Auldtimer 04 Jul 03 - 05:04 PM
Malcolm Douglas 04 Jul 03 - 09:03 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 04 Jul 03 - 09:09 PM
The Borchester Echo 05 Jul 03 - 08:32 AM
zanderfish3 (inactive) 05 Jul 03 - 08:48 AM
GUEST 05 Jul 03 - 08:59 AM
Harry Basnett 05 Jul 03 - 04:21 PM
GUEST,Emily 05 Jul 03 - 05:04 PM
GUEST 05 Jul 03 - 05:12 PM
Noreen 05 Jul 03 - 07:15 PM
GUEST,Lidy 05 Jul 03 - 08:23 PM
Little Hawk 06 Jul 03 - 01:09 AM
John MacKenzie 06 Jul 03 - 05:07 AM
Richard Bridge 06 Jul 03 - 12:09 PM
GUEST 06 Jul 03 - 05:54 PM
GUEST,blue angel 06 Jul 03 - 07:00 PM
John Routledge 06 Jul 03 - 07:38 PM
Little Hawk 07 Jul 03 - 12:45 AM
The Barden of England 07 Jul 03 - 02:57 AM
Richard Bridge 07 Jul 03 - 10:55 AM
GUEST,KB 07 Jul 03 - 11:20 AM
treewind 07 Jul 03 - 12:35 PM
The Borchester Echo 07 Jul 03 - 01:19 PM
GUEST,Miss Moneypenny 08 Jul 03 - 05:18 AM
GUEST 08 Jul 03 - 05:33 AM
Ralphie 08 Jul 03 - 05:37 AM
greg stephens 08 Jul 03 - 05:51 AM
Ralphie 08 Jul 03 - 05:58 AM
GUEST 08 Jul 03 - 08:30 AM
GUEST,Santa 08 Jul 03 - 10:33 AM
GUEST,David 08 Jul 03 - 10:43 AM
treewind 08 Jul 03 - 11:07 AM
GUEST,Kevin Sheils 08 Jul 03 - 11:45 AM
GUEST,Eliza C 08 Jul 03 - 04:04 PM
GUEST,Dan Abnormal 08 Jul 03 - 08:23 PM
GUEST,Cuddles 09 Jul 03 - 01:57 AM
GUEST,Kevin Sheils 09 Jul 03 - 03:36 AM
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Subject: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Noreen
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 02:19 PM

On Radio 4 now, (7.20 pm Fri) arts programme about to have an article on Jim Moray and how he is the new face of Folk...


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Noreen
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 02:20 PM

Had a clip of him singing 'April Morning' at the start of the programme.

Very nice, but why does he sing with a mid-Atlantic accent?


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Noreen
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 02:24 PM

(When he grew up in Macclesfield and Stafford...)

http://www.jimmoray.co.uk/


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Noreen
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 02:34 PM

BBC Radio 4 live


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Noreen
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 02:42 PM

Ah well- good coverage of folk issues anyway on a mainstream, prime-time (after the Archers!) radio prog. They mentioned PEL issues and folky stereotyping problems quite sympathetically.

But Jim Moray doesn't sing in a traditional style. He has a mid-Atlantic style, I suppose, rather than the accent. Is this the only way to make traditional songs popular?

:0(

No-one else hear it?


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Noreen
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 02:44 PM

Anyone ever had a thread all to themselves before?


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Noreen
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 02:45 PM

Here's me sitting here like Billy No-mates...


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 03:06 PM

You get used to it Noreen.

*Smiles*


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Noreen
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 03:08 PM

LOL- thanks, friend :0)


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 03:33 PM

Didn't hear it, Noreen but I've heard him sing before and I do agree about the accent...plus an attempt to emulate Jon Boden, methinks...

Another 'future face of folk' - - hey-ho!

:0)


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 03:48 PM

How does someone get to be a "new face of folk" anyway?


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: lady penelope
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 03:52 PM

Apparently you get a degree in it first! I caught the trailer for it but Parker came home from work half way through the archers and turned the radio off so he could talk to me.

All is forgiven though, he's made margaritas and found me Alison Krauss to watch on the telly!

TTFN Lady P.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: John Routledge
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 05:04 PM

A degree enables easier access to the media presumably.

It gives a performer an air of gravitas that those whose skills have been gained solely by years of experience do not have.

Bit like life in general.

Regretable but probably inevitable.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST,Auldtimer
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 05:04 PM

Yes, yes, yet another, new face of folk, safe pair of hands, sign of interest by young people in traditional music, and so on and so on....And yes it seems that qualifications, certificates and letters after your name seems to be a prerequisite to becoming a Folksinger nowadays. I have never heard Jim Moray singing live but I have had the pleasure of having an extended listen to his CD. and it is well worth hearing. BUT, new? ground breaking? life changeing? set the (folk)world on fire? draw hordes of young people into clubs and festivals? NO.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 09:03 PM

Journalists, even those specialising in the less fashionable areas of music, do seem to have a compulsion to invent "the future" of whatever genre they are dealing with on a regular basis. They seem unable to understand that the latest fashion is not always the issue: hence their constant harping on such questions as "how should we re-cast folk music so that it it relevant to the young generation?"

"Relevant", though it is the term that they typically use, simply displays their ignorance and their slavish devotion to buzzwords from the ad agencies. Food does not have to be "made relevant" to each successive generation in order to ensure that they will eat; though it is certainly true that the junk-food companies have a constant battle on their hands to make sure that children over a certain age become addicted -physically or culturally- to their product.

That's the point, I think; we are talking here about "product". I've heard Jim Moray, and he produces perfectly good stuff, though he hasn't mastered his singing voice yet (it's still rather weak), and his use of technology might have been new in the 1970s, but strikes me now as "retro" rather than ground-breaking. Journalists, however, will inevitably seize on such things as "the new face of" (whatever) if for no other reason than that they would always rather do that than a bit of basic research into the subject on which they like to present themselves as expert.

Moray is workmanlike and competent, so far as I can see, but nothing out of the ordinary as yet. He may well develop into far more as he matures, but probably not if lazy music journalists lionise him too early. I hope that he is too intelligent to take seriously some of the nonsense that is presently being written about him.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 09:09 PM

/slanty,writing-you,get,yoused,to,it,noreen/
best,laff,ive,had,all,week
2smiles2
.john


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 08:32 AM

Mid-Atlantic accent as in Midlands person halfway to festivals in Canada? What's wrong with emulating and absorbing influences like Jon Boden (and Chris Wood and Radiohead) anyway? Or in actually studying music to degree level?

C'mon. Jim Moray is an incredibly broad-based musician and producer drawing on the many sources that have touched him so far. If this helps rescue our music from those who would keep it in glass cases wrapped in arcane language and archaic presentation then more power to his laptop.

For those who haven't heard the R4 Front Row interview yesterday, it's on playback on the BBC site.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: zanderfish3 (inactive)
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 08:48 AM

Jim chooses good songs to sing but needs to ditch the sampler and the PC.
Personally I don't think our folk music is in any danger, I played in a session at the Fleece in Haworth [ West Yorkshire ] on 4/07/03 and saw teenagers and pre teens having a great time playing fiddles, flutes and tin whistles, all playing traitional folk music and loving it


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 08:59 AM

Moray was on BBC (radio) 3, "Late Junction" , earlier this week (Monday night?) You can hear it again on the Listen Again thing on the BBC website. He did an interview and some stuff live as well as tracks off his CD. What did I think of his stuff? Dull. Dull Dull. We've heard it all before, I'm afraid. Flashy over-elaborate and inappropriate guitar accompianments. One track, with a piano, was just the dullest, uninspired Pop.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 04:21 PM

Jon Boden has unique singing style and is just becoming established himself...although imitation is the sincerest form of flattery it would be rather nice if Moray developed a singing style all of his very own! I know floor singers emulate established artists but come on......


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST,Emily
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 05:04 PM

Right. Firstly, I think Jim lived in Congleton not Macclesfield (not much of a difference I know)! He doesn't have much of a Stafford accent but I've never detected any mid Atlantic accent...And it might not sound like he sings traditionally but he is as traditional as anyone else - he's been singing English folk songs practically since he could talk!

Its definitely not an attempt to emulate Jon Boden - he thinks he's great, but Moray only came accross his singing about 2 years ago when 'Through and Through' came out, and he himself has been singing like he does in folk clubs for years, apart from a small gap when he fronted several poppy-indie bands, which I think is quite obvious in his style. If you'd suggested he was emulating Nic Jones you'd be more on track!

I personally don't think his aim has ever been to be incredibly new and ground breaking - his music has always (in my opinion) used electronics in good taste and with feeling - according to the lyrics and the expression of the song, not just for the sake of being radical. People can interpret him as being innovative, but stripped down of his equipment, he is just as good a singer and would have been just as well known within the folk scene (look at poverty knock). And he is intelligent and passionate about the english tradition. He wants to make it more approachable to the young people who are not so aware of the folk scene, and this is the way to get interest, however naff and un-radical it may sound to some people.

His song material may seem over-used, but he certainly does have a wide folk song knowledge as well! And he's a fascinating, down-to-earth bloke who's recorded an amazing CD in his bedroom, whilst doing a degree, with limited equipment and student debts, so I think thats quite impressive!


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 05:12 PM

And finally - yes lots of teens and pre teens play traditional music, but how many of them actually play English traditional music? Irish and Scottish folk music are very popular amongst the younger generations but they do tend to overshadow it, 'cause they seem more exciting and trendy. Moray has always focused exclusively on the English tradition, 'cause it is that that needs to be given more attention.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Noreen
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 07:15 PM

Hi, Emily. Glad to hear you are so fond of Jim. None of my remarks were a personal criticism of him, as I do not know the chap (the Macclesfield reference is from his website).

I would be delighted if he did make traditional/folk music more accessible to a wider audience, and his heart is obviously in the right place, from listening to his interviews.

No doubt he has been steeped in the tradition from an early age, but his singing style has obviously been strongly influenced by other styles, to the extent that he does not sing traditionally in the clips I have heard.

I love his choice of material, but I'm afraid I don't like what he does with it.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST,Lidy
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 08:23 PM

I do. It's interesting. I don't know why, it just intrigues me as a listener of many different genres. Hi Countess! Cakey here...


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 01:09 AM

I just got the chance to hear Jim Moray play twice today at the Mariposa Folk Festival in Orillia, Ontario, Canada. I was very well impressed with his singing, his musicianship, and his imagination. Great treatments of old folk tunes! Will he transform folk music? I doubt that. But will he carve out a respected place for himself as an innovative folk musician. Yes indeed. There's going to be a fair buzz about him on the festival circuit. I also got a chance to talk to him, and he's friendly, unpretentious, witty, and entirely likeable. "Poverty Knock", as he does it, is a superb song.

So here's a solid vote of confidence for Jim Moray from Little Hawk. I wish I was as young as he is right now...I'd probably be doing something a lot like he's doing. As it is, I just can't be bothered anymore. I'd rather live a quiet, introspective life at this point, and look inside for peace of mind rather than adventuring around on the outside.

By the way, I also saw "The Wailing Jennies" yesterday and again today, and they are wonderful! (3 women from Winnipeg, Canada).

- LH


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 05:07 AM

Jim Moray the Alastair Campbell of folk??
Giok


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 12:09 PM

Whatever happened to all those winners fo the competitions for the young traditional singer of the year and so on?   Used to be something to do with Radio 2. DOes this answer the question?


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 05:54 PM

I can't say that Moray's style impresses me BUT he is concentrating on English music. If that brings people in who then go back to the sources such as Joseph Taylor then that will be fantastic.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST,blue angel
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 07:00 PM

well, as a 20 something who got into folk a few years ago and knows quite a few "young folkies" i feel i have to put my oar in. first off jim moray is not my favourite artist , in my humble opinion (and bearing in mind that i can't sing as well as he) he should relax a bit more and stop trying so hard. but come on guys, give the guy a break! is it his fault that the media are obsessed with "the latest new thing"? and of course he must be influenced by other singers, everyone who sings is, that's how people learn to sing!! not only does he sing traditional stuff, but he knows a lot about what he's doing and can talk coherently about it. and as for making snide comments about how he's got a university degree, come on, why should that preclude him from singing folk? lots of "young people" these days go to uni, so its inconsistent to blather on about wanting more young people to get into folk music and then moaning if they happen to have done a few qualifications. and i can't see the mid atlantic accent myself, he just doesn't have a strong accent, and I personally prefer him singing in his so called mid atlantic style than trying to adopt a fake accent in order to sound more "authentic". right, rant over, i'm off to bed.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: John Routledge
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 07:38 PM

Developing into a great thread

I love the concentration on English material and hope that some listeners do dig back to source singers as hoped by Guest 05:54.

In the current climate of easy gratification it may take a while to happen however.

In the meantime let us all enjoy our own type of "Folk" and try to keep an open mind.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 12:45 AM

I got a chance to talk to Jim Moray again a bit today. It turns out that he is about as skeptical about the overblown media hype around him as the rest of you who are objecting to it are... :-)

He also knows about Mudcat Cafe, and will probably get to check in on this thread at some point. I hope so, anyway.

Nice set tonight, Jim!

- LH


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: The Barden of England
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 02:57 AM

The continual harping on about 'traditional' style gets me down a bit. As there are no recordings from way back when, how can we speak of a traditional style in any meaningful way? Traditional english - well what's that? English is a modern, thriving language that takes on new words every day - a living language that changes, diversifies and often leaves old words unused and forgotten. The same should therefore be said about english traditional style, as it must have changed along with the language. It's all part of a living tradition - long may it be so.
I saw Jim Moray at the Gosport & Fareham Easter Festival, and thought what he did there was great. I didn't like everything he did, but then again I don't like everthing anybody does. His ideas and delivery put a new slant on things, and I for one welcome that wholeheartedly. Well done Jim, keep up the good work!


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 10:55 AM

Adding to a body of knowledge is excellent: to discard the old knowledge is but to alter the old ignorance to the new ignorance.

As a language is impoverished by the loss of old usages, so is the oral tradition.

Let us not decry new arrangements of traditional music and song (I am an offender!) - but let us never forget the roots. Biodiversity holds the gene pool from which future mutations may have to come - and there may be a parallel.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 11:20 AM

We also saw Jim at Gosport. Some of his stuff was stunning, and some less so. Overall effect was that here was someone with lots of ideas and things to offer, and we were watching him explore them.
My favourites were Poverty Knock and the one where he sampled in some phrases & then used them in realtime as backing - that was really haunting. Om (12 yr old daughter) was enthralled - and she's quite a good judge.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: treewind
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 12:35 PM

I agree with Malcolm's opinion that all the electronic stuff is 70's retro - the only difference is that in the 70's you had to build it up in the studio whereas now he can do it live with his PC. The sooner he drops it the better. It just adds superfluous backgound noise and doesn't do anything for the song. The real achievement (especially with this type of music) is to be able to stand and and sing a song unaccompanied and make it tell its story. You don't have to perform unaccompanied all the time, of course, but having that ability enables you to put things in perspective.

What's remarkable is that somebody aged 21 is singing traditional English songs at all, and getting media coverage for doing so, and at least some of the time getting his listeners excited about his performance and hopefully about the music. It almost doesn't matter how well he does it. I wish him well but agree that the musical quality is variable so far.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 01:19 PM

Jim Moray is perfectly capable of standing and singing unaccompanied and, indeed, often does to stunning effect. Because of his extensive musical training - which has given rise to so much inexplicable criticism - he can also vary the accompaniment and arrangement according to which of his many instruments are available - for instance not every venue has a piano. I cannot believe Treewind can have heard Lemady performed live and then assert that the programming "doesn't do anything for the song". As someone said earlier in the thread, just give the guy a break. Go and see him and be amazed. Or if you can't, listen to Sweet England.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST,Miss Moneypenny
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 05:18 AM

My my my this is all very interesting isn't it! I wonder if Jon Boden would stir up such strong feelings, or indeed Kate Rusby, Eliza Carthy or any of the other 'stars' of folk. The fact that you are even discussing Jim Moray in this way indicates that the guy is doing something right. He has given you something to think about, made you question the way folk music is performed, made you wonder why English folk music is always the poor sister to Irish and Scottish music, made you look to see how many 'young' people there are out there involved in the folk scene. Quite an achievement for guy whose debut album only came out a week ago.

So who was that idiot up above who implied that folk artists shouldn't have degrees? Do I detect some jealousy or perhaps some personal regret? Artists by definition should be pushing barriers, and in that quest, knowledge is power. Recent interviews on Front Row, Late Junction, The Andy Kershaw Show and more have shown Jim Moray to be a very valuable ambassador for folk music who can speak intelligently and knowledgably about a vast array of music genres but chooses to speak up for folk music. Be grateful and give the guy some support.   

As for the question of media interest, there is little point in putting a record out and not telling people it is available to buy, so, anyone with any sense would ensure that the press have copies of said record. However the artist has no control over the kind of reviews he gets, and over whether he gets reviews at all. To date this album has been reviewed in The Times, The Telegraph, The Independent (4 star review), The Independent On Sunday (4 star review), Songlines (Top Of The World CD of the month), The Word, Time Out, Uncut, with rumours that it will be Folk Album Of The Month in next month's Mojo. He has also had tracks from the album played on The Mike Harding Show, Travelling Folk, Late Junction, The Andy Kershaw Show, Front Row, The Verb.... Now I might be wrong, but I don't think all of those media people were interested in him because he had a degree. You don't get that kind of coverage with any kind of music unless you are doing something very special, but to get that kind of coverage when you are unheard of and doing folk music of all things is nothing short of a miracle.

So why don't you go back and listen to that album again, and this time with an open mind. Put your headphones on and listen to the complexity of what this guy has done. Remember just because he doesn't sound like Harry Cox doesn't make him unworthy of your consideration. He's 21 years old! He can't sound seventy-five even if he tries. And why should he try? But he can sound like a guy who has listened to Radiohead and The Smiths and Martin Carthy, absorbed those and many other influences - vocal, technological and interpretive - taken what he has admired from them, and in the true folk tradition come up with his own versions of some great English folk songs. Good on him!


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 05:33 AM

Well Miss Moneypenny - that's enough to put me right off him. What a tirade! You sound even more sneery than the sneerers.
The degree comment was (originally) a comment about a degree in folk, not degrees in general - and was presumably an ironic throwaway comment.
Yes, some people are giving adverse comment, but there's plenty there who are complimentary too. I suspect same would apply for any artist - some will like them and some won't.
It is not Jim per se that has made us "question the way folk is performed" and "look to see how many young people there are". These are issues that arise regularly in the threads.
Not everyone is going to like him, and you can't make them. Haranguing people is not likely to make anyone give him another listen. I think Jim can be pretty happy with the vast number of people who do enjoy and appreciate what he does - he doesn't need anyone to tell us what to think of him. Your first paragraph is particularly patronising.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Ralphie
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 05:37 AM

God...I'm glad I'm not 21 anymore...
Hands off Jim, is my cry....!!
As Moneypenny rightly says, anyone who can generate this amount of interest (and his very own Mudcat thread, to boot!)Can't be doing too badly.
Personally, I'm looking forward to hearing the CD.
Maybe, when commenting on new artists, we should heed the words of Martin Carthy...
"The only way you can damage traditional song, is by NOT performing it"

Regards Ralphie (wishing I had his publicist, Grumble, Moan !)


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 05:51 AM

Jim Moray is a musician. He nakes music. Like it, or dont like it. Dont lets confuse the publicity with the guy himself. There's no point in trying to tell us that what he's doing is a bad thing; and even less point in trying to tell people how stupid or out of touch they are if they dont like it.
   Each age has people who use folk material and dress it up in contemporary clothes. We've seen the Percy Graingers and Vaughan Williams shoving it into a classical orchestral concer, Martin carthy as 60's guitar hero, Fairport Convention as soft rock, Spinners as MOR entertainment. Jim Moray is having a play about with computers, as are many other people.Fair play to them. The music's out there to play with. Enjoy yourselves. Time will sort the wheat from the chaff.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: Ralphie
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 05:58 AM

Greg.
I think that was the point I was trying to make.. But, you do it much more elegantly then I do !

R


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 08:30 AM

I've heard him on the radio a few times and I love what he does with the PC and the sampling - it's the songs he sings straight that I find irritating .... he sounds like he's in pain sometimes and it makes you feel anxious listening to it and it's too yelpy! But the sampled stuff where his voice is less defined is really haunting and well worth listening to.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST,Santa
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 10:33 AM

Talking of "new face of folk"; Mrs Santa and I were recently of the opinion that the more memorable artists were girls (defined as females younger than me) so it is good to hear that there are a few boys (defined as males younger than Mrs. Santa) too.

Somebody adding pop electronics to folk and getting people all excited - hmm, where can I have heard that before? The music survives. The turtle lives.

I look forward to hearing Jim Moray -when is he going to appear in the North?


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST,David
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 10:43 AM

To Miss Moneypenny: Your comments are thoroughly intelligent and perceptive and each paragraph exudes positivity...unlike the pointlessly critical response that the anonymous GUEST gives.

My god..if that was a "sneery", "haranguing", "patronising" "tirade" then our friend needs to leave his/her little bubble and enter the real world once in a while!

Right that's my own tirade over!

What I wanted to say was that if it wasn't for Jim I would have no knowledge of or interest in folk music whatsoever. I heard his "I Am Jim Moray" EP last summer and was blown away by it. I then saw him play live as much as I could and have slowly been exposed to other performers, both live and on CD.

The musicians I have met have been uniformly wonderful and their young fans too...but, bloody hell, the older ones!
What a miserable, bitchy, out-of-touch bunch of bores! Talk about missing the point of folk whilst simultaneously appointing themselves its guardians!

Thank God for the deliriously impressionable music hacks! After all, someone has to provide counterbalance to the nit-picking, sourfaced, "seen-it-all-before" sentinels at the gates of FolkWorld!!!


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: treewind
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 11:07 AM

I hope I wasn't construed as saying Jim's a bad singer or musician. He's good - but not noticeably more so than many others in folk world that go ignored by the BBC. The fuss they are making suggests that the beeb are excited at having discovered that there are in fact four traditional folk singers in the world, not three as previously believed...

As Ralphie says - I wish I had his publicity agent! **

I'm looking forward to hearing Jim perform live - then I'll be able to make a fairer comparison in conditions I'm used to.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST,Kevin Sheils
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 11:45 AM

Adding to earlier postings from Ralphie (Hi Ralph) and Greg there is an excellent quote from William Butler Yeats which I always bear in mind when people start discussing the validity of a style or whether it is folk.

"Folk-art is indeed the oldest of the aristocracies of thought, and because it refuses what is passing and trivial, the merely clever and pretty, as certainly as the the vulgar and insincere, and because it has gathered into itself the simplest and most unforgettable thoughts of the generations, it is the soil where all art is rooted."

This, I think, is why Martin Carthy says that you can only damage taditional song by not perfoming it and Greg said time will sort the wheat from the chaff. Folk-art sorts itself out and our views won't affect it (well certainly not the views of a limited number of people sitting at PCs anyway). More strength to Jim for experimentation I'm sure he realises that the music will survive any approach because the merely clever etc (as in above) will vanish.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST,Eliza C
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 04:04 PM

Hi
Miss Monneypenny-they used to talk like that about me, but hopefully they got bored and forgot about it at some point, or at least do it off the board where I can't see it!
To stick my neb in, I don't like all of what Jim does, but I also think that he does have a great imagination and is prepared to take risks with the music, and it is unrealistic to expect such a young performer to spring "fully formed" from his bedroom, to never change. I think he is an overly nervous and clever musician right now, but I wish him the best of luck playing electric music in a mostly acoustic scene, and I think he will improve with age too. All the best to him, I hope he does well and makes the music that makes him happy.
cheers!
eliza


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST,Dan Abnormal
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 08:23 PM

For what its worth, I don't like everything Jim does musically either, but he is a friend of mine (I did my degree alongside him) and I think I speak for both of us when I say how annoyed I am by the implication halfway up this page that it somehow makes have to work less hard for recognition. Frankly, the way you get access to the media like Jim has is paying a publicist a shedload of money (and having talent, of course...).

I think the reason he comes across as nervous, or 'trying too hard' is because of over-inflated claims in the media. No, its not revolutionary, but its not supposed to be - its only folk music after all! I would also take issue with the suggestion that he should drop all of the computer stuff live - there is only one song in his set where he uses the computer at all. The rest of the time it functions as a midi controller for guitar effects etc.

I know I can't be very objective, but I think people are taking this all a little too seriously. If you prefer acoustic music (or other singers for that matter) then great, you already have someone to listen to. Don't hold a grudge against Jim simply because he is on the radio in the week his album comes out. If it comes down to another pop-idol getting the airtime or traditional songs I'll pick traditional songs any day, no matter who is singing them.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST,Cuddles
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 01:57 AM

Blimey ! There's some pretty profound stuff being written above. Thank goodness 'Dan Abnormal' has brought the debate back down to earth. Given that most 'folk' singers struggle to attract any attention at all, Jim Moray has certainly overcome that barrier. Personally I'm always more interested in an artist whose work attracts both praise and criticism rather than an artist who attracts no comment at all. Whether Jim Moray is 'The New Face of Folk' is a matter of opinion, and does it really matter anyway ?

What DOES matter is that the guy obviously has talent, is not afraid to experiment, has produced a pretty good debut album and is worth seeing live if you haven't seen him already.

As a Festival Organiser who gets deluged with material from singer-songwriters, much of it pretty dreadful, I found the Jim Moray promo package stood out from the crowd and that's why I booked him. Having seen him perform and having witnessed our audience reaction, I would happily book him again. End of story.


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Subject: RE: Jim Moray- new face of folk? BBC R4 now
From: GUEST,Kevin Sheils
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 03:36 AM

Spot on Cuddles


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