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BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane

Little Hawk 16 May 03 - 03:37 PM
artbrooks 16 May 03 - 03:59 PM
Gareth 16 May 03 - 04:16 PM
Allan Dennehy 16 May 03 - 04:20 PM
Cluin 16 May 03 - 04:23 PM
Giac 16 May 03 - 04:56 PM
GUEST,DaveB.inVa 16 May 03 - 05:12 PM
Raedwulf 16 May 03 - 05:18 PM
harvey andrews 16 May 03 - 05:49 PM
The Walrus 16 May 03 - 06:15 PM
Charley Noble 16 May 03 - 06:22 PM
Matt_R 16 May 03 - 06:55 PM
Allan Dennehy 16 May 03 - 07:25 PM
Matt_R 16 May 03 - 07:33 PM
GUEST,Jon 16 May 03 - 07:48 PM
Matt_R 16 May 03 - 07:59 PM
Rapparee 16 May 03 - 09:03 PM
Gurney 16 May 03 - 10:49 PM
catspaw49 16 May 03 - 11:43 PM
Little Hawk 17 May 03 - 12:55 AM
stevetheORC 17 May 03 - 06:16 AM
GUEST,Jon 17 May 03 - 07:16 AM
DonMeixner 17 May 03 - 09:51 AM
GUEST,Jon 17 May 03 - 10:14 AM
Little Hawk 17 May 03 - 11:53 AM
leprechaun 17 May 03 - 02:42 PM
RolyH 17 May 03 - 03:28 PM
Little Hawk 17 May 03 - 04:33 PM
GUEST,permakid 17 May 03 - 06:08 PM
Little Hawk 17 May 03 - 06:43 PM
Allan Dennehy 17 May 03 - 07:02 PM
Cluin 18 May 03 - 12:05 AM
Lin in Kansas 18 May 03 - 02:47 AM
Fossil 18 May 03 - 04:13 AM
GUEST,M'Grath of Altcar 18 May 03 - 06:19 AM
catspaw49 18 May 03 - 07:53 AM
DonMeixner 18 May 03 - 09:16 AM
X 18 May 03 - 12:11 PM
X 18 May 03 - 12:36 PM
Charley Noble 18 May 03 - 12:41 PM
Little Hawk 18 May 03 - 01:08 PM
GUEST 18 May 03 - 01:28 PM
leprechaun 18 May 03 - 04:03 PM
Cluin 18 May 03 - 04:57 PM
Gareth 18 May 03 - 07:16 PM
GUEST,ozmacca 18 May 03 - 07:46 PM
leprechaun 18 May 03 - 08:56 PM
Little Hawk 19 May 03 - 12:11 AM
Teribus 19 May 03 - 04:38 AM
The Walrus 19 May 03 - 07:07 AM
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Subject: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 May 03 - 03:37 PM

I thought..."what topic have we not yet touched upon ever on Mudcat?" And came up with this...

Okay. My favourite is the Albatros series of fighters, from the Albatros D.III to the D.VA. They were very graceful, beautiful looking little planes, and served as the backbone of the German forces for most of the war, being flown by virtually all the German aces, from Richthofen on down. They were biplanes. Their one weak point was that they could not sustain a sharp dive very long without shedding their wings (with fatal consequences). This was somewhat remedied in the D.VA model.

Go for it, Mudcat. We'll see if this thread hits 10 posts.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 May 03 - 03:59 PM

Interesting as the SPADs, Neupots and Fokker Triplanes are (with apologies to Eddie Rickenbacker, the Red Baron, and that lot), I kind of favor the Curtis Nancy NC-1. This was the first aircraft to fly the Atantic, in 1919.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Gareth
Date: 16 May 03 - 04:16 PM

Click 'Ere Enjoy.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Allan Dennehy
Date: 16 May 03 - 04:20 PM

Stand back everybody, I'm coming out of the closet! I've seen every Discovery programe ever about fighter planes, old and new. There is something really beautiful about those vintage planes, though. Only time I got really close to one was in the sixties. I was a child playing football out on the road when suddenly about 20 or 30 biplanes started fighting it out in the Dublin mountains a couple of miles from us whilst a couple of helicopters filmed it all. We all stood with our mouths open for half an hour or so as one of the planes got "shot down," span towards the ground with smoke pouring from its tail, then pulled out of its dive, switched of the smoke trail and climbed back up to the dog fight. Remember the blockbuster movie "The Blue Max?" Well that was part of it. I'll never forget that day.
Anyway, I know its not a fighter, but I'm going for the Vickers Vimy bomber.
Hope you get your 10 hits and many more Little Hawk.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Cluin
Date: 16 May 03 - 04:23 PM

A grade school teacher, who was doing a class on World War II heard that the father of one of her students, Helga Jansson, had been a fighter pilot during the war with the RAF. Mr Jansson had having left Sweden in `39 to join the war. She invited him to come in and speak to the class, He was more than happy to talk, and began with a story about a morning patrol where he had been nearly shot down.
    "Ve had been up for about tventy minutes flying over enemy territory, vhen ve noticed, yust in time, dere vas t'ree Fokkers diving on us from above."
    At the first mention of `Fokkers' the class giggled a little bit. The teacher interrupted the story to ask Mr. Jansson to explain to the class that a 'Fokker' was a particular type of plane flown by the German Air Force.
    Jansson replied, "Ya, dat is true, Miss, but dese Fokkers vas Messerschmidts".


(okay, so it was about WWII planes...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Giac
Date: 16 May 03 - 04:56 PM

Gareth -- thanks for the link, that's a wonderful site.

Mary


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: GUEST,DaveB.inVa
Date: 16 May 03 - 05:12 PM

My favorite fighter would be the Sopwith Camel. But my love has always been with the bombers. I love the Handley Page O/400 as well as the German Gotha bombers. The zeppelin bombers are pretty cool too with the special "height climber" zeppelins that could reach over 20000ft.

My favorite aircraft of all time is definatley the B-29 Superfortress of WWII. The earlier models were ok but the later B-29B's and the Silverplate Superfortresses were extremely technolocially advanced and could do over 400mph.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Raedwulf
Date: 16 May 03 - 05:18 PM

Damn! That site's not available at the moment! "...exceeded its allocated data transfer...".

I'm a little bit tempted by the Fokker Eindekker - one of the few monplanes in the war, & a frighteningly effective fighter in its day. I have to go for something Sopwith though (call it English bias if you like!).

I could go for the Sopwith 1-&-a-half strutter, if only for the name (why build it with 1 1/2 struts?!), the Snipe was probably the best fighter of the war, though it only just made it into service before the end. The Triplane was a damn fine aircraft too.

But, perhaps inevitably, I have to plump for the Sopwith Camel. A superb warplane, tricky to fly, but highly manoeuvrable, & one of the first in a fine British tradition of giving our planes a bit of character by giving them names, instead of boring old Mark/Type numbers!! :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: harvey andrews
Date: 16 May 03 - 05:49 PM

SE 5A, because my Dad loved it. For my generation it was the Spitfire.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: The Walrus
Date: 16 May 03 - 06:15 PM

Great War period scout/fighter aircraft?
I'd have to nominat three of them.
The Sopwith Pup
The Sopwith Tripehound^H^H^H^H^H Triplane
and the 'Brisfit' - the Bristol Fighter (F2?)


Harvey,

Sorry mate, for WWII, it's got to be the Hurribird (Hawker Hurricane) for me, the 'plane that did the *real* work in the Battle of Britain.

Regards

Walrus


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 May 03 - 06:22 PM

My favorite book about all this is WARBIRDS: The Diary of the unkown Aviator. Go now to www.bookfinder.com and scarf up a used copy before someone beats you to it. The unknown aviator was a war buddy of Elliot White Springs, former CEO and owner of Spring Made Sheets, and Canadian ace Billy Bishop.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Matt_R
Date: 16 May 03 - 06:55 PM

I love the Nieuport 17 and the SPAD S.XIII.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Allan Dennehy
Date: 16 May 03 - 07:25 PM

Anybody know of a site with plenty of colour pictures?


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Matt_R
Date: 16 May 03 - 07:33 PM

I've found this rather helpful:

http://www.theaerodrome.com/aircraft/nations.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 May 03 - 07:48 PM

Wasn't aware you liked war planes and things used to kill people LH?


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Matt_R
Date: 16 May 03 - 07:59 PM

I think the POV is from a purely design and aerodynamically-related one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 May 03 - 09:03 PM

The Spad. Then the Camel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Gurney
Date: 16 May 03 - 10:49 PM

The Brisfit. But the French and Italian fighters were prettiest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 May 03 - 11:43 PM

LOL....As soon as I waw this thread, I knew it was you Hawk!!!

WWI is a really tough call. The airplane was still so much in it's infancy, barely at toddler status by the war's end. Plus you have to take the pilots into consideration. Although "Dicta Boelke" is still an adhered to philosophy today, it meant a lot more then. Planes like the Tripes were truly lacking in every crucial statistic but in the hands of Ricthofen of Werner Voss it was magnificent.

To pick one plane? Tough call.......All else being equal, the SPAD. But if I take the war as a whole and based on successes, I'd have to agree with Hawk on the Albatross series although the VA came along too late.

WWII has a lot more aircraft, but is a lot easier choice.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 May 03 - 12:55 AM

Hey, well, this is great! Better response than I expected. I was away all day playing music, and went to the Corner Coffeehouse for the evening...just got back.

Lots of good nominations here. The Curtiss Nancy is the only one that's new to me...nice plane. The others are all old friends. I also really like the Nieuport, Matt...a very pretty little plane. The big bombers like the Gotha and the Handley Page were remarkable looking machines...huge things.

GUEST, Jon - Hey, I knew I'd hear from someone who would have a comment like yours (chuckle...). Yes, those planes were used to kill people. So were the galleons of England and Spain...and they were beautiful things. I like them too. I like Crazy Horse...he and the other Lakota warriors were very adept at killing people. I find the accounts of Caesar's campaigns in Gaul fascinating, not to mention the accounts of the Napoleonic wars, etc....which also involved killing a whole lot of people. I think it is partly because I know a great deal about war that I am so much against it. Can you relate to that? I hope so.

People, in their efforts to deal effectively with reality and each other have created many extraordinary things and have tested the limits of human courage, love, patriotism, self-sacrifice, mercy, accomodation, and mutual understanding. That it makes for fascinating history and great stories is undeniable. That it should serve to teach us to work for peace and not war is, to me, absolutely obvious.

Now back to those magnificent men in their wood and fabric planes...

And Gareth, thanks for the great link!

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: stevetheORC
Date: 17 May 03 - 06:16 AM

Tooooooooo many to realy choose from I use to love making them as a kid they seemed to have soul not like some of the later designes.
But lets say the Camel, albatros, pup, spad where proberly my favs. The paint work on some of them was fantastic.

De Orc


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 May 03 - 07:16 AM

Mo problem LH - sorry I was being more than a little stupid when I made my post.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: DonMeixner
Date: 17 May 03 - 09:51 AM

WWI

The Sopwith Pup, Eindecker III

Between the wars: The Old Reliable ( Curtis Jenny ), The Swallow.

WWII

Hawker Hurricaine

P-38, P-39, P-47

Martin Marauder, Aeronca Champ, Junkers 88

Lately: A-10 Warthog


Don


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 May 03 - 10:14 AM

Well Don, if you are allowing any era, I would go for the Vulcan Bomber. I couldn't believe its take of and the angle of ascent - it seemed to go upwards so steeply and slowly, I sort of half expected it to fall backwards down the line it was taking. And there was the noise - seemed like a case of sheer brute power. I've found a page with a section "Vulcan XH558, The Loved One by Michael Rondot" that expresses the feelings I had wacthing one of these at RAF Valley open day. Sorry the whole page here is so long.

Back to the topic of WW1, I'm afraid I don't know any of the planes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 May 03 - 11:53 AM

The Vulcan is a tremendously impressive-looking aircraft. It somehow gives the impression of an enormous animal, a mythical monster like the Roc. I don't generally like the post-WWII planes all that much, but the Vulcan is a standout among them.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: leprechaun
Date: 17 May 03 - 02:42 PM

Since boyhood I have always liked the Fokker Triplane, but I have to agree with Little Hawk on the Albatross, even if just from an aesthetic point of view.

An interesting model, though not exactly a fighter plane, was the Dehavilland.

Wasn't it a Spad that Georges Guynemer disappeared in?

Thread creep - I tend to agree that it was probably an Australian ground gunner who brought down the Red Baron, though the Canadian pilot, Captain A. Roy Brown, got the credit for many years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: RolyH
Date: 17 May 03 - 03:28 PM

I've always been a great fan of the Sopwith Triplane.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 May 03 - 04:33 PM

The Sopwith Triplane was very neat, yes. A good climber, that one, and very manueuverable.

Leprechaun, I tend to agree on the Von Richthofen thing...I also figure it was the ground fire that got him. Guynemer mostly flew the Nieuport, but I can't remember which plane he was flying at the time of his death. It may have been a Spad.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: GUEST,permakid
Date: 17 May 03 - 06:08 PM

Here's mine!

And a little song to go with it ...

THE BEAGLE HAS LANDED
by Michele Eatough
to the tune of "Hope Aerie"

The night moon glows; up Snoopy goes.
Here stands a doghouse no more.
    The mighty plane of a flying ace,
    The Sopwith Camel, stands in its place
To fight in the first World war.

        For the beagle has landed
        To drink root beer again.
        Now he'll fly, his country to defend.

Engines churn while machine guns burn;
The enemy falls from the sky.
    Shot down, the mighty flying ace,
    But another plane comes to fill the place.
The Red Baron swears he'll die.

        For the beagle is branded.
        Red Baron plans to rend
        Snoopy's Sopwith Camel, end to end.

In pale moonlight, the two planes fight;
Soon both are riddled with holes.
    But the Baron hits some vital spot,
    And the Sopwith Camel, smoking and hot,
Falls to the Earth below.

        And the beagle crash-landed.
        Let the Baron beware when
        Snoopy climbs his doghouse once again.

        Prophets and prisms and planets in motion,
        Pebbles I gather in front of Truth's Ocean.
        Fluxions that help me in my measurings --
        These are a few of my favorite things.

**********************************************************************


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 May 03 - 06:43 PM

Yes, it was Snoopy who made the Sopwith Camel into a famous plane again in the 1960's. The Red Baron would certainly have been surprised had he known this would happen...

If the Germans had had such a dog flying for them, it would undoubtedly have been a dachshund named "Schnaps" or something like that, and you would have had a real dogfight! Dachshunds are tenacious little devils.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Allan Dennehy
Date: 17 May 03 - 07:02 PM

Nice site, Matt R. Great thread. Keep 'em comin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Cluin
Date: 18 May 03 - 12:05 AM

Time for another song in this thread. This one about the post-war use of some of these planes. From James Keelaghan's Small Rebellions CD:


Princes of the Clouds
Tony Kaduck 1989 SOCAN

I am a flyer, one of those wind-in-the-wires boys
At the country fairs, you may have heard my name
And I have flown where only wind and wild men go
In the skies of France, or west across the plains
When war was done, I couldn't go back to the farm
There were Curtis Fours and Avros for a song
It seemed like single and free was the only way to be
I bought a good old craft and I named her Southern Star

We drew crowds; they called us "Princes of the Clouds"
In the railway towns across the Great Divide
We'd come in low, then stage a dogfight for a show
Then take the brave ones up for fifty cents a ride
Just Bob and me; we didn't need no company
And those farm girls made us welcome when we came
It seemed like single and free was the only way to be
And we swore those glory days would never end

We had it planned; we were gonna fly the Rio Grande
When I met her at a show near Calgary
Becky Ann, she could have had her any man
But I bought a ring; she said she'd marry me
Bob went on; he headed south toward the sun
I couldn't look him in the eye when the time had come
He just said, "Single and free, man, it's the only way to be
Southern Star got parked behind the old man's barn

Six years ago, Bob was flying mail in Mexico
When his plane went down; the wreck was never found
The thirties came, we went two years without the rain
Now I've a factory job, and room and board in town
Becky knew that the glory days were through
I got a letter from New Orleans the other day
And she said, "Single and free is the only way to be
Now, Southern Star, take me back and let me dream
Oh, Southern Star, I got lost along the way


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 18 May 03 - 02:47 AM

Hawk, I know the Curtis Jenny wasn't a fighter plane, but she was still beautiful! I even got to see one in the air at an Antique Airplane fly-in in Oregon several years ago. The WWI planes were squirrelly as the dickens to fly and land, but fascinating nonetheless.

Nice sites, everyone.

Lin


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Fossil
Date: 18 May 03 - 04:13 AM

To start with - I too love old aeroplanes and in my youth, now alas a few years away and getting further away fast, I made many many models - my favourite WW1 plane being the SE5A. Also something of a favourite with the pilots, I believe, being fast, well armed and very tough by the standards of the day.

Now to diverge from the subject. If any of the contributors to this thread ever visit Brussels, don't miss the Air Museum at the Cinquantenaire Park - it is stuffed with interesting old craft, including a Fokker Triplane, Sopwith Camel, Halberstadt, etc.... and lots of more modern stuff, too (WWII and several postwar jets). And in the UK, don't miss the museum at Old Warden, particularly if there's a flying day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: GUEST,M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 18 May 03 - 06:19 AM

"High Flight"

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air.
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or even eagle flew -
And, while with silent lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand and touched the face of God.

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.
 


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 May 03 - 07:53 AM

And some info posted previously on John G. Magee, the author of "High Flight" Click Here

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: DonMeixner
Date: 18 May 03 - 09:16 AM

The Curtis-JN III was the trainer of choice by the US Army and the Navy through out all of WWI and well after. They had gun mounts added and they trained with weapons on board. That the JN III (Jenny) didn't see combat in France doen't mean it wasn't used as a military air craft.

Don


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: X
Date: 18 May 03 - 12:11 PM

Right now it's my mandolin players Navy AT-SNJ.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: X
Date: 18 May 03 - 12:36 PM

You can find photos of Mikes T-6/AT-SNJ at www.barnstormers.com on page 21 & page 22.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 May 03 - 12:41 PM

Cluin-

Thanks so much for posting "Princes of the Clouds." It really captures those bitter/sweet time of barnstorming in the 1920's.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 May 03 - 01:08 PM

It's a wonderful song lyric...I hope I get to hear the music now.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 03 - 01:28 PM

Neiuport 17, for its manueverablity;
The SE5A for its speed;
The S.P.A.D. XIII for its durability;
The Fokker Driedecker for its climbing ability;
The DeHaviland DH-2 for it's unusual bathtub apperearance;
The Fokker D-VII and the Sopwith Snipe for sheer performance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: leprechaun
Date: 18 May 03 - 04:03 PM

OK, Now I've figured it out, how Little Hawk became a radical. Not pot smoking or drugs or skateboarding, but inhaling all that glue from putting World War I model airplanes together in the eighth grade! Truly a mind-opening experience!

Great thread, Little Hawk. It sure brings back some junior high memories for me. I can't even remember what happened to all the planes I put together, back before being a nerd was fashionable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Cluin
Date: 18 May 03 - 04:57 PM

Hey I love that song too. I still sing it often. You hear it once and you're hooked. I'd highly recommend picking up that Keelaghan CD it's on (Small Rebellions); the whole thing is killer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Gareth
Date: 18 May 03 - 07:16 PM

At the risk of "thread drift" - never forget the "Stringbag" WW1 design in a WW2 enviroment. Click 'Ere

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 18 May 03 - 07:46 PM

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with a liking for all those string and canvas flying machines. The really beautiful streamlined Albatross and the Walfisch, or the pug-ugly Camel. Mind, I've always been intrigued by the oddities... That dainty little French "Parasol" scout and the massive great bomber built by Sikorsky for the Imperial Russian Air Force and used on the Eastern Front early in WW1, or the armoured Junkers used for ground attack work in 1918.

Between wars, how about all those weird and wonderful experimental things like the tail-less flying wings like the Westland Ptereodactyl. Ugly as sin and the ancestor of the Stealth and B2. (for a real bit of deja-vu, have a look at some of the Horten flying wing jets late in WW2)

The Me163 and the "Volksjager" for all-out weirdness in WW2, but for "conventional" aircraft in WW2, I admire the Westland Whirlwind, a sleek, fast, hard-hitting twin engined single-seat fighter with the promise to be one of the best aircraft of the war if engine production priorities hadn't been changed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: leprechaun
Date: 18 May 03 - 08:56 PM

I like the story of Mr. Fokker himself finding the solution to shooting through a moving propellor. He came up with the idea of an interrupter gear on the machine gun, such that the gun wouldn't fire when the blade was in the way. He drew on a childhood memory of throwing stones between the moving blades of a windmill.

What about those poor buggers who had to go up in the earlier models with metal deflectors bolted to the propellors, and then pound in when they shot the propellor off?


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 May 03 - 12:11 AM

Yeah, it all started with Roland Garros, the French madman who decided to armour his propellor blades with deflectors and shoot down Germans. He did shoot down two or three, using his almost suicidal method, and the Germans took note. Within a very short time, Anthony Fokker designed the interruptor gear and the Fokker Eindekkers almost swept the skies clean with it! Blame Roland Garros, I say...he indirectly cost the Allies a great many aircraft with his crazy idea. :-)

The British responded with the DH-2, a pusher plane which didn't need an interruptor gear, since the prop was in the back. It was an odd looking plane, but did well...until the Albatros fighters appeared.

Leprechaun, now you are getting much closer to the truth... :-) Yes, my way of having a "good time" (as Bill Cosby used to say) was not dope, not booze, not cigarettes, not drag racing, and not even sex (curses! rejected again!) but going to the local hobby shop, buying another Airfix, Revell, or Monogram kit, removing the shrink wrap (a delicious moment), and building a historical airplane. I must've built a couple of hundred of 'em. It used to take me a couple of days when I was a kid...now it takes me a month, cos I'm such a perfectionist...and man, have those kits gotten GOOD in the past few decades! The best ones come from Japan, courtesy of Tamiya and Hasegawa, mainly, but there are some beauties coming from China now too.

Sheer joy!

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Teribus
Date: 19 May 03 - 04:38 AM

WW I Fighter - SE-5A, it just "looked" right. Something about an aircraft of that period that was so well behaved in the air that it would allow the pilot to change drum magazines for the Vickers-K gun mounted on the top of the upper wing during a dog-fight. The SE-5A had two machine guns one fixed firing through the propellor the second mounted to fire forward and upward (the angle could be changed by the pilot to suit his preference). In a fighter to fighter engagement, the K gun meant that to get out of any attack from and SE-5 you had to dive, unfortunately that meant that the SE-5 pilot still held the advantage of altitude. Against bombers the K gun meant that the fighter could attack in the bombers blind spot - astern and below.

WW II Fighters -
Hawker Hurricane - it did the job exactly when needed.

Spitfire - beautiful aircraft - except on take-off or landing, it transformerd through 24 different marks, more than doubling it's weight and enhanced performance, but still retained it's beauty - pilots loved it.

North-American P-51D Mustang - truly remarkable aircraft in terms of range and performance, British design, only came into it's own once powered with a Rolls-Royce Merlin engine.

Focke-Wulf-190 - best German fighter aircraft of WW II, performance was astounding.

De Haviland Mosquito - fighter, fighter-bomber, bomber and passenger aircraft. Carried the same bomb load (4000 lbs) as a B-17 Flying Fortress. Absolutely beautiful aircraft, again the pilots who flew them loved them. One of the "passenger" types (completely unarmed) flying the "ball-bearing" run from Sweden was recorded by German air-intercept radar doing 600 knots on the run back to the UK - did that by climbing to maximum altitude over neutral Sweden then diving for home - the Germans had nothing to catch it.

Post WW II

Hawker Hunter
McDonald-Douglas F-4 Phantom
Mig-29
F-14 Tomcat
F-16.


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Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: The Walrus
Date: 19 May 03 - 07:07 AM

Terribus,

Just a couple of points.

The 'wing-top'gun on the SE 5 was a Lewis with the 'infantry' cooling jacket removed and a 96 round magazine fitted, not a Vickers 'K' (the 'K' is a 1930s design I think).
The technique you describe of shooting into the 'blind spot'was a favourite of 'Billy' Bishop, apparently, he kept his lewis gun in the 'loading' position on the quadrant mount (pointing almost straight upward) dived under his opponent (who thought himself safe as most single seat 'planes fired forward) and stitched them from tail to engine (or t'other way).

WWII. Wasn't the P 51 'Mustang' an American design?

I'm glad someone mentioned the DH Whirlwind, I'd quite forgotten it(would I be right in thinking it was based on the DH 88 from the Britain-Australia race?).

Regards

Walrus


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