mudcat.org: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia

wilco 11 May 03 - 04:17 PM
wysiwyg 11 May 03 - 04:48 PM
katlaughing 11 May 03 - 04:48 PM
Dead Horse 11 May 03 - 09:23 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 11 May 03 - 10:53 PM
Tweed 11 May 03 - 11:00 PM
Metchosin 12 May 03 - 01:51 AM
Liz the Squeak 12 May 03 - 06:09 AM
stevetheORC 12 May 03 - 08:48 AM
EBarnacle1 12 May 03 - 09:49 AM
wilco 12 May 03 - 09:56 AM
wysiwyg 12 May 03 - 10:04 AM
GUEST 12 May 03 - 10:05 AM
wilco 12 May 03 - 10:20 AM
katlaughing 12 May 03 - 10:56 AM
GUEST,noddy 12 May 03 - 11:09 AM
stevetheORC 12 May 03 - 11:11 AM
Metchosin 12 May 03 - 11:36 AM
Metchosin 12 May 03 - 11:50 AM
GUEST 12 May 03 - 12:23 PM
GUEST,mink 12 May 03 - 12:31 PM
gnomad 12 May 03 - 01:18 PM
Hollowfox 12 May 03 - 01:41 PM
wilco 12 May 03 - 02:01 PM
katlaughing 12 May 03 - 02:14 PM
Tweed 12 May 03 - 02:46 PM
wysiwyg 12 May 03 - 03:51 PM
GUEST,big jon 12 May 03 - 06:47 PM
EBarnacle1 13 May 03 - 02:03 AM
greg stephens 13 May 03 - 03:23 AM
GUEST,disag 13 May 03 - 05:39 AM
Liz the Squeak 13 May 03 - 06:48 AM
GUEST,disag 13 May 03 - 07:04 AM
Liz the Squeak 13 May 03 - 07:29 AM
Grab 13 May 03 - 07:54 PM
Liz the Squeak 14 May 03 - 05:56 PM
GUEST 14 May 03 - 08:42 PM
Metchosin 15 May 03 - 12:11 AM
Doug_Remley 15 May 03 - 12:37 AM
leprechaun 15 May 03 - 07:36 AM
Mooh 15 May 03 - 08:49 AM
Liz the Squeak 15 May 03 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,Les B. 15 May 03 - 03:08 PM
Liz the Squeak 15 May 03 - 04:04 PM
wysiwyg 15 May 03 - 04:09 PM
Noreen 16 May 03 - 07:08 AM
Liz the Squeak 16 May 03 - 08:43 AM
JohnInKansas 16 May 03 - 08:50 AM
wilco 16 May 03 - 07:13 PM
Midchuck 16 May 03 - 09:50 PM
fiddler 17 May 03 - 06:34 PM
greg stephens 17 May 03 - 06:48 PM
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: wilco
Date: 11 May 03 - 04:17 PM

At a rural festival recently, a drunk showed-up, riding a horse. He fell off the horse in the parking lot, and, with his foot hung in the stirrup, he was dragged across the parking lot. This generated an ocean of profanity, and various people attending to this fool. Lots of families around to see this guy. He basicly ruined the afternoon for a lot of people. He showed up a little later again: filthy, profane, and drunk. In a very rural stting like this, any ideas for treating people like this? I thought of tying him to a tree off in the woods until the festival was over.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 May 03 - 04:48 PM

First, I think the "joke" about euthanasia in your thread title is in extremely poor taste.

As far as what was seen by families, where else do you think the material for life-lessons comes from? Sometimes a thing just speaks for itself, and kids are pretty smart about seeing what happens and how people they trust are reacting to it. Some, even, have some compassion when they see someone who has lost as much dignity as you describe.

~Susan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 May 03 - 04:48 PM

Have him arrested or put him in a makeshift hoosgow? Or, ask a friend to take him home. Sounds like a real ass.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Dead Horse
Date: 11 May 03 - 09:23 PM

Put him in the long-boat, 'til he's sober
Ear-ly in the mornin'.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 11 May 03 - 10:53 PM

You don't really have to worry about euthanizing guys like that, Wilco. They tend to do it to themselves eventually, and it sounds like your particular guy's closer than most to achieving his goal.

Our musical community recently said goodbye to its "resident drunk". He missed the same highway curve and rolled his car over in the same cow pasture for the third time. The first two times he walked away. The third one broke his neck. Fortunately, he was alone in the car and no other cars were involved. Unfortunately, that's not always the case, is it?   

Bruce


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Tweed
Date: 11 May 03 - 11:00 PM

I must agree wif Wizzy in her assessment of yore terribly pore taste Wilco. You should have substituted "Beaten Even More Senseless,Horsewhipped, and Lynched" for Euthanasia in the thread title. If they would only let me be a clone I would change it for you.

Yerz,
Tweed
(Kidding Kat and Wizzer, I am just kidding!!)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Metchosin
Date: 12 May 03 - 01:51 AM

Not all Bruce, my stepfather euthanised himself for most of his adult life until he was eighty-six years old, fortunately not behind the wheel of a car.

For the last few years he didn't go much father than his garden shed for his stash, but it did leave one in wonder of the punishment some human bodies can endure and still keep ticking.

When he was a young man on a farm in Saskatchewan, he came home after working his fields, to find that his first wife, who suffered from what is now termed as severe postpartum depression, had blown her head off with a shotgun, leaving him the sole caregiver for a small baby.

Unfortunately, pain like that sometimes never dissipates for some and his chosen form of self-medication had a tremendous impact on those closest to him. Oddly enough, despite his problem with alcohol, he was otherwise a man of sterling character and was a far better father than my non-alcoholic biological one.

Interesting how compassion is extended to some musicians afflicted with drug and alcohol addictions and we bemoan their passing and their pain and condemn more humble individuals who do not enjoy the appelation "Artist".

As much as I loathe alcoholism and what it does to people, I refuse to despise the addict.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 12 May 03 - 06:09 AM

Most drunks don't give much back to the human race except pain and anguish. We bemoan the loss of various musos through drink and drugs related illness/death but they have left us with fantastic recordings and someone somewhere has been touched by them. They put their alcoholism into a creative vein. Most common or garden folks who choose drink/drugs as their form of escapism put it into a destuctive vein. I've seen and shared parts of my life with both.

A muso I lived with was the gentlest person you could wish to meet, but was hopelessly addicted to scotch and valium. He knew this and so chose not to drive and when he was down, he shut himself away from the world (incidentaly creating some of the most amazing music) til he was on a more even keel. (He eventually did cold turkey, got himself off the valium and the scotch down to social drinking only - result is, he's a happier person but has never written anything so beautiful since)

Another one (yeah, I really pick 'em!) had a high profile teaching job and when sober was a responsible, kind, intelligent and loving person. However, that one drink too many turned him into a violent and abusive man who conciously chose to flout the law, driving recklessly and deliberately hitting out at who or whatever displeased him. (His result, got arrested and convicted of assault, lost his job, respect and licence. Last heard of he was still working as a teacher, still driving, still drinking and presumably still abusing people weaker than him).

Although both caused me pain in different ways, I'd be more inclined to dance on the grave of the latter, rather than the former, given the chance.

This is a really hard one to call.... I for one find being drunk in public quite OK up to a certain point. After that point (usually when the drunk is violent or vomiting) it's offensive and they should be taken away to sober up or calm down. If there is someone being offensive I will leave the vicinity. If I feel they are going to be a danger to someone (aggressive, argumentative or attempting to get into the drivers side of the car) I would (and have) report them to the authorities - a steward or the police.

As a steward at various festivals, I've had to deal with this and mostly, when asked nicely, they are happy to go drink elsewhere. On the occasions I've had a stroppy one, I have unhesitatingly called on the festival organiser and the police (one guy was trying to walk down the middle of a very busy road) who have removed him, or arrested him for drunk and disorderly. He got a night in the cells, a good fry up for breakfast and an unofficial verbal warning. He later came up to me and said thank you, no-one had ever made him aware of how unsociable he really was. We became good friends after that.... ironically, he was killed by a drunk driver.

As for drunk drivers - well - as a victim of one of those (my brother as well as Jon above was killed by one) - I say euthanasia is too good for them.

So is hanging, drawing, quartering, lynching, garrotting, racking, dismemberment, root canal work without anaesthetic, burning at the stake and death by a thousand paper cuts.

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: stevetheORC
Date: 12 May 03 - 08:48 AM

Hows about Impalling?

De Orc


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 12 May 03 - 09:49 AM

This January, on one of the nastiest nights of the year, 4 drunken kids stole a small boat to go visit an island about half a mile from where they stole the boat. They didn't make it. When the boat swamped, one of them got off a brief 911 which was treated like a prank [After all, who would have been so stupid as to go out in those conditions?] until it was too late. Even had the call been responded to promptly, they would almost certainly died of hypthermia and exposure before help could have reached them. Their families are suing the City.

There is certainly a case for fool killing. These kids did it for themselves. Perhaps their parents should join them for their cupidity as well as for not teaching their kids not to act so stupidly.

[As you have certainly guessed, I am not sympathetic to their effort to cash in on this event.]

Eric


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: wilco
Date: 12 May 03 - 09:56 AM

Maybe euthanasia was a poor choice of words, but we don't really have another word for protracted suicide by drink. In a rural setting, calling the law isn't a good option, since it might take an hour or two to get them there. I'm looking for ideas for frontier justice, and "stocks" in the woods might be a good idea.
    I have an acquaintence, in the wrecker business (trucks that tow off broken cars and trucks), who caught a guy breaking into his house one night, through the bathroom window. He went outside the house and stuck a 357 revolver up his hieny, and cocked it. The guy was about half way through the window at the time.
    He called a buddy on his wrecker phone, got a wrecker, made the guy tell them where his car was. All three got in the wrecker, hooked-up the thief's car, took it off on one of the mountains, set it afire. Then, they came back into town, made the guy strip naked, and kicked him out just before 7 AM rush hour traffic in downtown Chattanooga.
    A solution like that would be appropriate. As for drunk drivers,
lock-em-up and throw away the key.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 May 03 - 10:04 AM

Our area is pretty rural, backwards, inbred, and fool-laden. But our law will lock us up if we break the law, as you've described above, just as it will lock up the ones we might try to discipline.

Are you folks really joking about killing people? Or serious about it as an option? Or what, forced abortion of imperfect babies? Forced sterilization of the retarded? Where do you draw the line, or do you have a line anywhere?

Uh, either way, what's up with THAT?

~Susan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 03 - 10:05 AM

Bloody hell! Remind me not to have a drink in your neighbourhood!!!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: wilco
Date: 12 May 03 - 10:20 AM

Drunks kill themselves. Unfortunately, they sometimes kill and maim innocents too.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 May 03 - 10:56 AM

Tweed, no need to apologise to me. I lived with a drunk who was much the same as the one wilco has decribed and I have no sympathy for such. As wilco said it is a slow form of suicide; I don't have to choose to participate in it with them. I also lost two uncles to such and they had much to give the world, and did, in the form of work and artistic endeavours.

The key phrase I read in the intial post was: Lots of families around to see this guy. This doesn't need to be, nor should it, esp. if it disrupts everything.

wilco, I'd be careful of stocks because some folks may have circulatory problems which could really be aggravated by such, BUT there's no reason not to build a hoosgow, maybe, out of straw bales or something which would blend in with the general atmosphere. Then, I dunno, do you get into problems with holding people against their will; have them sign a release before there's trouble; and/or what happens if you've got them locked up and they choke on their own vomit? Or would it not be that dire? I'm just thinking out loud here.

Another thought, you could hobble him, or put a ball and chain type hindrance on his ankle and sit him down to sober up.**bg**

Good luck sorting this one.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 12 May 03 - 11:09 AM

ebarnacle, what are they suing for , the bad weather , being sold the drink under age, or the education system for not teaching them common sense.
I suggest they sue themselves for not controlling their kids.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: stevetheORC
Date: 12 May 03 - 11:11 AM

Strip him naked coat him in Hamster food and let John9 from Hull set his rodents loose on him, or as an alternative peg him out over a ant hill in the blazing sun until he repents his evil ways and gives up the demon drink.

A peace luving Orc


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Metchosin
Date: 12 May 03 - 11:36 AM

sure we have a better word for euthanasia wilco48, but it's called state sanctioned murder by some.

However, throwing away your own humanity as a method of dealing with a drunk is not an option, its just another tragic extension of alcoholism's impact. Why applaud your acquaintence's solution? They were, presumeably, stone cold sober. Is encountering a drunk an excuse to abandon your own humanity? Why would you assume that behaving like vigilante is somehow acceptable in a rural environment?

That the alcoholic causes mayhem for himself and endangers those around him is a given. The world is littered with human tragedies as a result of its consequence.

I don't believe alcoholism can be put to use in any creative vein, creativity exists in individuals despite alcoholism.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Metchosin
Date: 12 May 03 - 11:50 AM

result of its consequence? aargh! LOL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 03 - 12:23 PM

I can see the self-righteous moralist rides again!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: GUEST,mink
Date: 12 May 03 - 12:31 PM

Yep - and the drunk rides again & falls off........


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: gnomad
Date: 12 May 03 - 01:18 PM

Need to distinguish between someone who is drunk and someone who is an alcoholic here, I feel.

One may be either without being both, and the appropriate action depends on what you are trying to achieve; cure of a condition which has baffled many a specialist, or relief of a temporary local nuisance.

My impression from the first post is that this case is one of a drunk (and a damn fool one at that) who will be hurting and feeling pretty undignified. This is some sort of punishment, though instinct says he needs a lot more.

Sober minds will override the instinctive reaction, and realise that in these litigious times almost any direct action beyond trying to talk a bit of sense into him lays you open to all kinds of legal action, and I for one wouldn't trust the courts to see it the same way as me.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Hollowfox
Date: 12 May 03 - 01:41 PM

Going from the cosmic implications of alcoholism to the specific problem of this person at the festival, I'd suggest 1) Get his foot out of the stirrup and do whatever first aid etc is needed. 2) Have festival security deal with him, probably by having the local police take care of it. 3) Get the horse taken care of. Ideally somebody can take care of the horse while somebody else takes care of the drunk.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: wilco
Date: 12 May 03 - 02:01 PM

What right has this drunken fool to interrupt everyones' enjoyment to deal with his infantile behavior? I would suggest that it might be inhumane to coddle these fools. Now, as to the comment about violence, possibly vigilante action with a sidearm, I would disapprove: you might hit an innocent horse. Again, looking for serious. no-maintainence options in a very rural setting. The anthill and rodent options require too much work. One suggestion at the festival, which had a number of flies and mosquitos, was tying him to the horse backwards, coat him with honey, and send him on his merry way.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 May 03 - 02:14 PM

Remebering always to keep your tongues firmly in your cheeks!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Tweed
Date: 12 May 03 - 02:46 PM

Hmmm...posonby the only correck avenue iz to paint him up, stick a red ball nose on him, hire a couple midgets an' put on a show! Nobobby wuld need to kno he iz a drunk an' he culd mebbe eat free and mek some pocket change from selling tickets. Ob corse thar would be a insurance agent wif hiz hand out....nevermind...

....just grin and bear it all I reckon.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 May 03 - 03:51 PM

In the Navy, the fellas my son serves with have a policy-- they take excellent care of the individual, putting him into the care of a "designated walker" to get him back to the ship. (Sailors have a keen sense of what behaviors in town tend to make sailors in general less welcome than they already are, and will walk a guy out of trouble before it gets too bothersome.) But once he's on board the amateur crime-scene photographers get busy. When you puke all over yourself lying on the bottom of the cold, running shower, it's memorialized for all time, with 2 sets of prints. You get a copy for yourself and so does someone you respect (they tend to know who you respect/fear/admire).

These pictures come back to haunt you, should you fail to make yourself a designated walker the next few times out. It's quite democratic, too-- my son holds his CO's photos and has been known to tell him when to knock it the F off. And he's appreciated for this, too.

These Navy pals will also mop up the worst of what you spew, since by then you can't do it yourself. But you may find the mop bucket, waiting for you to empty it, in your rack (bunk). And when you emerge from hell you are expected to re-mop, and make like new, whatever area you messed, plus do chores for whoever cleaned up after you.

The end result is that most kids find out it's a lot more fun to be a walker than a walkee. Persistent walkees are understood to have a problem they cannot control, and there's a sense that protecting your shipmates from the worst consequences is inmportant to remain battle-ready.

It's a small neighborhood, and they police it well, with good effect. But in your festival situation, I think you have to rely on local law enforcement. And if it really takes them that long to show up, then your event must usually not be too problematic, or they would be there on hand. So to protect yourself from actually harming someone because you do not know what you are doing, there should be festival security OR a Red Cross first aid tent (ideally both). Dump a drunk at First Aid and let them deal with it. Think of it as preventing alcohol poisoning.

~Susan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: GUEST,big jon
Date: 12 May 03 - 06:47 PM

evry one has a right to f*** up ocasionaly put me with the unstable how was the horse


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 13 May 03 - 02:03 AM

They are suing because the 911 operator did not take their incomplete call seriously enough to call out the helicopters and rescue boats on a night when no sane person would actually be on the water. Even had the operator done so, they would certainly have been dead and drowned by the time that they were found--if they were. I believe that they die not even identify their location before the call went dead.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 May 03 - 03:23 AM

Some people go on holiday in the Scottish highlands and complain about midges. Some buy house beside airports and complain about the noise. Others go to folk festivals and complain about drunks....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: GUEST,disag
Date: 13 May 03 - 05:39 AM

The way I see it - on another day in another thread you could have someone admitting to having been blind drunk on (and then off of) a horse at a festival - and everyone would agree what a jolly good laugh it was, etc etc etc. Then a whole load of people would jump in and swap "drunk in public" stories....... - its all a matter of perspective and context.

Personally I find wilco48's attitude way too controlling. As the great Richard Thompson hath written .... God Loves a Drunk   (great song)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 May 03 - 06:48 AM

Yeah, God and everyone loves a drunk....

Picture this:~ You are 9 years old. Your mother comes and tells you that you will never see the big brother you heroworshipped again, and you are packed off to an uncles' house. When you come back, your mother has changed beyond recognition and your father has withdrawn into himself. Your friends won't talk to you and others who would cross the street to avoid you, suddenly come over and are very very nice to you. Months later you find out that your teenaged brother was killed (but not outright, no, he managed to crawl to a nearby house where he died on their doorstep) by a drunk driver who got away with a slap on the wrist, not even losing his licence.

Would you love that drunk?

Would you still love him when he did the same thing - killing a teenaged girl 15 years later?

Yes, perspective and experience has a lot to answer for.... that was my experience. God can love him, I can't and will ALWAYS try to get the drunk out of harms way, either for his own or others' benefit. You have the choice to stay sober(ish) and be respected or get drunk and act like a wanker, my brother didn't have that choice, he never even made it to his 18th birthday and legal drinking age.

I am not against alcohol - I've taken recourse to it myself on many occasions.... but I hope I've reached a stage where I know when I'm being stupid and irresponsible and stop drinking.

The drunk in the original posting put himself, the horse and all those people at the festival in danger - whether it happened or not, he put those people at risk. He was clearly not in charge of the horse, and I've seen a horse destroy a landrover because it was spooked. The people who attended to him (and presumably the horse) were at fault for not making sure he was adequately contained - an accident of that magnitude should at least have given him a ride to the emergency room where they would have made sure he was OK and at least partway sober before they discharged him, then maybe he wouldn't have had the opportunity to return to the festival.

It's the stewards duty to consider the risks and the needs of the many. This one person put a lot of people at risk and should never have been allowed back on site.

OK so euthanasia or deliberate exposure is going a bit far, but how would you be feeling if this person had drunkely ridden his horse through the line, knocking over a grandma, kicking a small child in the head, falled onto a hot dog stall and tried to jump a rail fence, impaling the horse? Bet you'd all be jumping up and down to string him up by the gazungas then.

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: GUEST,disag
Date: 13 May 03 - 07:04 AM

Good point Liz - I wasn't registering that the guy on the horse could do a lot of damage to other people. Was just registering that Wilco seemed to want to take violent measures to punish the twat - which seemed a bit exteme.
I do apologise for stirring up memories of your brother's tragic death. There is no excusing that particular drunk.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 May 03 - 07:29 AM

falled? Sorry indignance got the better of my grammar, it should have been fallen.

Were he just being a twat in a corner, then let him get on with it, but as soon as someone puts another in danger because they are drunk, it becomes a problem and it's the stewards' job to make sure that doesn't happen, not to punish the offender. The problem didn't escalate, so punishment of exposure would be a bit extreme... 'let the punishment fit the crime' sometimes has its place. If you have experienced the damage that a drunken person can do, you want to retaliate. If you've been the victim, you don't want the same to happen to others. It's a perfectly valid and human response to want to remove the "defective or non-functioning" member of society and whilst I appreciate that Wilco has said that euthaniasia was the wrong word, the alternatives were ineffectual. Humiliating people in public (the stripping the burglar nekkid and making him walk home during rush hour) is amusing, usually doesn't cause injury and is no worse than some of the things drunks get up to anyway - but only causes a turnaround in novels. It's only a REAL near death experience that will turn a drunk around.... and as far as I'm aware, embarassment isn't a terminal condition.

Don't apologise for stirring up memories, they are there practically every day and don't need to be stirred... however, they don't need to be broadcast every day either. It was an illustration to a point, which one or two others posting here could do well to heed.

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Grab
Date: 13 May 03 - 07:54 PM

I guess there are two possibilities here.

Firstly, it's the alcohol and he's actually an OK bloke. If so, get someone who knows him to give him an earful when he sobers up. Getting told that you've trashed someone's day when you were drunk has a real chilling effect. Having screwed up someone's party at uni by getting drunk, I know. :-( Long-term it works. Short-term, get said friend or the police/stewards to move him.

Secondly, he's just an arsehole and the drink makes him worse. Not much of a way of solving that one.

Graham.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 14 May 03 - 05:56 PM

Well there IS a long term solution, but we're right back to exposure and euthanasia again.....

LTS


(JOKING!!!)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 03 - 08:42 PM

Show me the whiskey stains on the floor
Show me a drunken man as he stumbles out the door
And I'll show you a young man with so many reasons why
And there, but for fortune, go you or I

-- Phil Ochs


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Metchosin
Date: 15 May 03 - 12:11 AM

Thankyou guest.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Doug_Remley
Date: 15 May 03 - 12:37 AM

One should care for the poor man. Of course, it's difficult to control a horse dragging something in its stirrup and they must be gently guided back and forth over the obstruction until it is removed. By then the para-medics should have arrived and I'm sure they will laud your attempts to control further dragging. As Kat said, "Keep your tongues in cheeks and your feet in the stirrups." Maybe the tongue/cheek thing isn't a good idea if one sits the trot.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: leprechaun
Date: 15 May 03 - 07:36 AM

As for calling the police, that depends on the nature of the "festival." For instance, it would take a huge squad of police to safely remove a violently intoxicated person from a Rainbow Gathering.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Mooh
Date: 15 May 03 - 08:49 AM

Not sure how someone gets into a festival on horseback, but that would be the first possibility I'd address for the next one.

Second, if the event has a gate(s) instruct the gatekeepers to turn away the intoxicated. If there are no gates (ie, it's an open festival) have the aforementioned stewards evict the drunk, horse and all, and make it a policing concern. (Our local festival has regular friendly walkabouts by a pair of officers, completely non-threatening.)

Third, if the alcohol was bought on site (ie, it's a wet festival) make it clear that it doesn't excuse public drunkeness, evict the drunk.

Fourth, graciously apologize to the offended and carry on festively.

Caveat: be responsible enough to accompany the drunk off grounds until he disappears on his own or in the custody of the law or with someone who will see him home or away.

My personal feeling about this is that as a festival organizer one has extra duties and responsibilities toward the customer. We can't be responsible for the behavior of the drunk necessarily but we are responsible for the comfort and entertainment of the audience. Take the compassionate route.

I like dry festivals. Ultimately they're more fun.

Peace, Mooh.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 May 03 - 09:58 AM

Dry festivals are good... I reallly hate standing my stewarding pitch under an umbrella and squelching in mud... much better to be sunny and dry!

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 15 May 03 - 03:08 PM

Liz the S. - for those of us on this side the pond, what is a
"stewarding pitch" ?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 May 03 - 04:04 PM

The particular patch of ground that, as a steward, I have to guard against all comers!

I like being on the gates where you get to see people and talk to them - I'm unbearably cheerful in the mornings - I like to make their stagger to the ablutions full of joy and trepidation.

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 May 03 - 04:09 PM

In the UK, is a festival steward something between a crowd-control/security person, a volunteer site liaison, and a helpful host or hostess?

Do we have these in the US at festivals, or are ours more like a rock concert security where there is hired security in uniform, hired by band or venue or both?

~Susan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Noreen
Date: 16 May 03 - 07:08 AM

That's a pretty good description of a steward, Susan, with the addition of being a contact person for anyone in need of first aid or other medical attention, lost children, lost property and so on.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 May 03 - 08:43 AM

Add to that natural target for any organic fertilizer that happens to be flying round - otherwise, pretty accurate.

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 May 03 - 08:50 AM

WYSIWYG

Most of the festivals I've been to in the US where there is camping rely very much on "volunteers" to perform a broad range of "duties." They may not be called "stewards," but their work is pretty much essential, - and many volunteer in exchange for free or discounted attendance.

At our "favorite" festival (Winfield) most of those who "man" the gates are volunteers. Those who work the information booth are usually more specifically "local volunteers" from the adjacent small town. Others are assigned as "roving watchers," to wander through the camp grounds, hand out schedule changes and newssheets, and "maintain order," although the definition of "order" is pretty loose.

It's a wild guess, but I'd estimate that at least 300 people volunteer and work for/at the festival in a typical recent year.

The "Festival Grounds," consisting of the fairground stadium and buildings area, is strictly non-alcoholic, and all persons going in are searched - including "to the bottom" of any purses, instrument cases, camera bags, etc. - for alcohol and/or drugs, by volunteers at each entry point.

In the campgrounds, it would be unreasonable to attempt to ban alcohol, since getting in line to get in the line to get a good place in the line to get a "good" campsite and hookup means that many people "live" there for nearly a month - for the 3-day festival. (Over 200 camp units last year were "in-line" more than 25 days - I was number 270 or so and was in line for "only" 19? days before the start of the festival.)

Local police "cruise" the campgrounds regularly, but will not intervene, or respond to a request for intervention, for anything that is not clearly a "criminal behaviour." Drunkenness in the campground is not considered "criminal" by the police, but may lead to occasional "mob rule" action - usually, but not always, of a constructive kind.

John


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: wilco
Date: 16 May 03 - 07:13 PM

Let's reiterate the situation, since I was there. It was specifically advertised as a "drug/alcohol festival, with zero tolerance." It is very rural, and the law is an hour away. There is a drunk galloping a horse through a festival, with kids and people dodging him. He finally falls off the horse in the parking lot. My first instinct was to help the fool, which I did. Then what do you do with the guy, when he starts to get back on the horse, and do it all over again, despite trying to reason with him. And, he did do it all over agin.
    In urban settings, you can hide in a corner somewhere, call 911, and wait for the law. Not an option all the time.
    The guy also kept telling us that his grandfather was the sheriff, and that "nobody could do anything about it."
    Ready to cover him with honey, turn him around backward, tie him to the horse, and send the horse off on his way in the woods yet?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: Midchuck
Date: 16 May 03 - 09:50 PM

It was specifically advertised as a "drug/alcohol festival,..

WHERE? WHERE? WHERE?

p.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: fiddler
Date: 17 May 03 - 06:34 PM

There is no answer with folk like that. I'm afraid Liz is right.

I have a pal who drinks and drives all the time - if he goes out with us now we tend to drive him to avoid the difficulties of telling him off trying to stop him - despicable. I actually avoide going out with him if I can.

He came to a party recently and went really overboard smoked about half a dozen joints had a lager and drove 80 miles home.

If I'd had his reg no I would have rung the police and given them the route!

Hanging is too good - far far to good - they need to suffer like the ones they leave behind!!!!!

Major Sympathies to all who have personal experience on the wrong end.

I must add I have no objections to any of teh above mentioned items in moderation when not driving or operating heavy machinery etc. etc. etc. I might be 50 but I'm no prude!!!! GOT IT!!!

A
XX


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Drunks @ festivals, rationale euthanasia
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 May 03 - 06:48 PM

Interesting trans-Atlantic cultural difference here. I would have thought the concept of a no-alchol folk festival in Britain would be completely inconceivable.. though someone may well write in and prove me wrong. The enjoyment of folk music here is inextricably bound up with drinking. I dont mean everyone drinks, obviously you can do whatever you like, but I've never heard of anyone trying to ban it. This is something to do with Al Capone and all those exciting movies, is it?
   Singing Fathom the Bowl wouldnt seem quite the same with everyone on lemonade.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 19 September 6:22 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.