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BS: Millions Marching for Peace!

Peter K (Fionn) 15 Aug 03 - 06:22 AM
ard mhacha 14 Aug 03 - 04:26 PM
DougR 13 Aug 03 - 05:08 PM
GUEST 13 Aug 03 - 01:00 PM
Bobert 12 Aug 03 - 11:26 PM
Rustic Rebel 12 Aug 03 - 10:57 PM
Bobert 11 Aug 03 - 11:29 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 11 Aug 03 - 10:01 PM
michaelr 11 Aug 03 - 07:29 PM
Don Firth 11 Aug 03 - 02:52 PM
Bobert 10 Aug 03 - 11:15 PM
Joe Offer 10 Aug 03 - 09:47 PM
DougR 17 Mar 03 - 03:18 AM
Troll 16 Mar 03 - 11:21 PM
Bobert 16 Mar 03 - 09:46 PM
Joe Offer 16 Mar 03 - 09:28 PM
TIA 24 Feb 03 - 05:30 PM
Bobert 24 Feb 03 - 05:23 PM
Don Firth 24 Feb 03 - 04:30 PM
McGrath of Harlow 24 Feb 03 - 04:17 PM
tar_heel 24 Feb 03 - 04:09 PM
GUEST,Oldguy 24 Feb 03 - 11:33 AM
McGrath of Harlow 24 Feb 03 - 08:56 AM
GUEST,Oldguy 22 Feb 03 - 11:45 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Feb 03 - 06:14 PM
GUEST,Oldguy 22 Feb 03 - 04:04 PM
TIA 22 Feb 03 - 03:26 PM
GUEST,OldGuy 22 Feb 03 - 01:24 PM
GUEST,Oldguy 22 Feb 03 - 01:06 PM
TIA 22 Feb 03 - 12:33 PM
annamill 22 Feb 03 - 02:37 AM
NicoleC 22 Feb 03 - 02:27 AM
GUEST,oldguy 22 Feb 03 - 01:26 AM
Troll 22 Feb 03 - 01:16 AM
TIA 22 Feb 03 - 12:55 AM
GUEST,Oldguy 22 Feb 03 - 12:24 AM
NicoleC 21 Feb 03 - 07:06 PM
GUEST,Oldguy 21 Feb 03 - 06:16 PM
GUEST,old guy 21 Feb 03 - 12:35 PM
Donuel 21 Feb 03 - 12:16 PM
NicoleC 21 Feb 03 - 12:11 PM
GUEST 21 Feb 03 - 10:28 AM
Alice 20 Feb 03 - 08:49 PM
NicoleC 20 Feb 03 - 08:38 PM
GUEST,Oldguy 20 Feb 03 - 07:24 PM
MMario 20 Feb 03 - 04:01 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Feb 03 - 03:47 PM
Troll 20 Feb 03 - 03:41 PM
MMario 20 Feb 03 - 03:15 PM
Troll 20 Feb 03 - 03:11 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 15 Aug 03 - 06:22 AM

"...pursuing weapons of mass destruction" DougR? You and your leaders really are singing off the same hymn sheet! You even water down your claims in unison.


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: ard mhacha
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 04:26 PM

Doug, Do you look at the News?, even the US media realise your Government have blundered into an unsolvable situation. Never in our life-time will the Iraqi chaos be sorted out.
Day after day a US soldier is killed, this has all of the makings of an even worse situation than the British problem in Ireland.Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: DougR
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 05:08 PM

I still think the U. S., Great Britain, and the rest of the coalition did the right thing. They will get it all sorted out sometime in the future, and the Iraqi people will be the better off because of it.

I assume, when evidence that Saddam was indeed pursuing production of weapons of mass destruction all of you naysayers will admit you were wrong, right?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 01:00 PM

Remember how all the ranters at Fox and Clear Channel called on the millions of marching, Saddam-loving, traitorous peaceniks to apologize for being so wrong? I'm still waiting for an answer to "wrong about what?"

TIA uncookied


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Aug 03 - 11:26 PM

Don't expect to hear much from Dougie, RR. Or Teribus. Or, ahhh, well you know the cast who were poundin' the war drum a few months back. Their drum is quiet now. Their rationalizations for war lay like 3 week old road kill. No, you won't hear from these folks. They don't know what to say since their boys don't know what to say either. They would just rather that no one asks any questions so they don't have to tell any more lies....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 12 Aug 03 - 10:57 PM

Yes as a matter of fact, Doug R, I agreed with you that if I was wrong I would admit it to you. But alas, I am unable to yet comply.(wink)
I finally got my photos developed from that day, this week. I took a lot of good ones and am happy I became involved in the marches. It was good for my soul.
Still raising my voice for PEACE! Rustic


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 11:29 PM

Absolutely correct, Fionn. Lots of us were onto Bush and Blair long before the invasion. Millions of us took to the streets around the world telling B&B that they had better take a long hard look at their justifications and evidence. However, now we see that B&B couldn't have cared less about evidence. Their loud and repeated lies trumped the truth.

Now the truth is now fighting its way to the surface. For Teribus, DougR, et al, what is your latest story?

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 10:01 PM

Thanks for putting me on to Barbara Tuchman, Don. Will follow up.

Apparently US troops today killed a couple of the Iraqi cops they've been recruiting and training. And we've just been allowed a glimpse Basra, which is under British occupancy, and which turns out to be a nightmare, with no fuel to power air-conditioning, fridges or anything else. (I can only quote snapshot impressions, because by and large the world's press has moved on, and Iraq is disappearing down the news agenda as quickly as Afghanistan did once it became an insoluble nightmare.

I was going to say whoever would have expected things to turn out any less messy than they have? I would have meant it rhetorically. But skimming some of the old posts here I realise that there are those who did indeed dream the dream. DougR may even now be watching for the skies to turn black with Iraqi missiles. And troll will be wondering why there has been no Iraqi nuclear assault on Israel, an acknowledged nuclear power.

It is good to hear, via Mudcat, that there are, or have been, protests throughout the US as well as in Europe, the middle east, etc, because the UK press tells us litle about them.


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 07:29 PM

I think "folly" is too nice-sounding a word -- it rhymes with "jolly", ferchrissakes.

"Idiocy" or "criminal stupidity" would be my choice.

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 02:52 PM

In The March of Folly: From Troy to Vietnam, the late Barbara Tuchman (one of America's foremost historians) examines the tendency of governments to act stubbornly and perversely against their own best interests. As Ms. Tuchman outlines it, a particular course of action must meet three criteria to be considered folly:

1. It must have been seen as such by contemporaries; people at the time saw it as foolhardy and said so, but were ignored.
2. Another, better, course of action (seen to have been such by many people at the time) must have been available;
3. The decision to follow the ill-advised course of action was not just the decision of one individual, it was espoused by both the leader and a group of his supporters.

These three criteria serve to separate true folly from the incompetence and/or insanity of an individual ruler. In her book, Tuchman analyses three monumental historical "screw-ups." The semi-mythological fall of Troy as a result of a stupid decision made after the war had been all but won; how the Renaissance Popes provoked the Protestant uprising that eventually led to the Thirty Years' War (in which nearly one third of Europe's population was wiped out); and the Vietnam war.

If Barbara Tuchman, a remarkably lucid historian and writer, were still alive, she could add yet another chapter or two to her excellent book. Not only has the Iraqi war not accomplished what the Bush Administration claimed it would (by way of excuses for pre-emptively invading), it has failed to accomplish the Bush Administration's hidden agenda.

These recent events amply demonstrate that the "political animal" is incapable of learning and evolving--and they further demonstrate the necessity of reasserting limits on the powers of government.

If Bush, the usurper, thinks he can do what he has done so far, imagine what he might do if he gets "re-elected" and thinks he has a mandate, not just from Karl Rove and the rest of the neo-conservative cabal (and, or course, God), but the American people as well. It's obvious that an even worse folly would be for American voters to actually elect the Bush Administration to office in 2004.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 11:15 PM

Yeah, Joe, I don't hear these conquerers beatin' on their chests these days. Seems that their guy lied thru his teeth and thyis was done at a time when millions of olks were on the streets saying to him "You'd better have the evidence, Buster, 'cause we don't see it your way!" and now we find, that he didn't have squat! And worse than not having squat is that he still says he had "good intellegence". What kind of liar is caught lieing and just tells another lie? A stupid one, that's what kind....

We told all you war mongers to slow down but you couldn't wait to go out and have the world's greatest super p[ower whip up on a third rate army. Did you enjoy it? Like, was it good for you? You still enjoying it?

Next time around, listen to reason. If you all want to see some folks hurt, buy a ticket to yer local boxing event, but, fir God's sake, don't give this President a blank check to attack people. That is just a reflection on your intellegence level....

Don't want to hear it? Quit supporting stupid imperialstic foriegn policy...

"Pompous" Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 09:47 PM

And the millions who marched have now been proven right. Now I wonder how all this mess in Iraq is going to get cleaned up. Will we ever have peace in the Middle East?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: DougR
Date: 17 Mar 03 - 03:18 AM

No, Troll, Bobert doesn't even think in those terms. To Bobert & Company, only these things are important (IMO): war with Iraq must be avoided at all costs.

He and those who think like him evidently believe that if nothing is done, Saddam will become a good guy. He will not continue to develop his program of producing weapons of mass destruction, he will be nice to his neighbors, he will never be a threat to anyone, and he will attend church every Sunday.

That does not, however coincide with his statement of today. He is quoted by CNN, the major networks (I'll not mention Fox News in deference to Toad)as saying, "If attacked, Iraq will take the war anywhere in the world, wherever there is sky, land or water."

Now if Saddam is serious about that, he must have a means to do it, right? Liberals are fond of pointing out that he has no ties to terrorists, so he couldn't do it by providing assistance to terrorists could he? He has no long-range missles, and no weapons of mass destruction, no airforce to speak of, no navy, so how do you suppose he proposes to carry out his threat?

Bobert?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Troll
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 11:21 PM

Bobert, have you seriously considered the possible consequences to the world if Saddam isn't stopped?
Suppose your protests stop an invasion. With the last twelve years as a blueprint, Saddam would reduce cooperation to the point that the inspectors would leave, just like the last time. France, Germany, and North Korea would continue to supply him with weapons and technology just as they have been doing.
And then he tests a nuclear device and decides that he is strong enough to take Kuwait again or have another go at Iran using nuclear blackmail. Or maybe he would decide to hit Israel and wipe out all the cities but Jerusalem.
We could easily have a nuclear war is he isn't stopped now.
Have you considered the fact that that would be "In Your Name"?

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 09:46 PM

Good on you, Joe!

Hey, whatn you folks did was as important as what we did in D.C. yesterday. Maybe more!

I'm so proud of folks in small communities where folks know each other who step out and say "Not In Out Name". That takes courage.

Just keep going after Wednesday or Thursday when the satkes go higher and Bush does something that has not been done since Teddy Roosevelt did in 1898: invade another country!

But for tonight, inspite of the fact that I have participated in 3 of the 4 major demonstrations in D.C. over the last 6 months, I'm danged proud of you folks fighting it out in the smaller 'burgs! Danged proud!

Peace (Reist War, if you will...)

Bobert


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Subject: Hurray for Colfax California Peace Marchers!!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 09:28 PM

Well, they say the population of my little town of Colfax, California, is 1,496. I have to say I'm pretty proud that 50 or more people from my town braved the rain and cold today and showed up for a wonderful peace march. I think we must have covered three or four miles, walking along the Interstate 80 frontage road. The traffic was heavy today because of the skiers coming down from the Sierra, so we got good exposure. Lots of friendly honks, and just a few raised middle fingers.

I was amazed at how many truckers gave us a horn blast when they saw our "Honk for Peace" signs.

We were followed by a small group of maybe 20 pro-war demonstrators. I thought it was kind of nice that we were all in line together, speaking for what we believe in.


Hurray for Colfax, California, Population 1,496!!!!

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: TIA
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 05:30 PM

tar heel;

Know where the millions of protestors were right after 9/11? I know where this one was - donating blood and loaning equipment to the rescuers. Didn't have time to protest. Oh yeah, and I'm not a citizen of Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan, nor a member of Al Quaida, so I tend to have little say with THEIR leadership. Actually, as it turns out, I have little say with MY leadership. Sheesh.


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 05:23 PM

Yeah, Don, I read that this morning in the Washington Post. Pretty incredible turn of sympathies in the world in just such a short time.
I think the "huff, puff and whack you" foreign policy that cowboy Bush has brought to Washington could use some serious warrenty work.

What? No Warrenty! Why would we elect a guy without a warre.....

Nevermind!

I forgot.

*We* didn't. His daddy's Supreme Court did...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 04:30 PM

Tar heel, what are you smoking?

Immediately following the attack on September 11th, America had the genuine sympathy and support of the world. The enemy was international terrorism and we were the victims. Since then, George W. Bush and his Merry Men have managed to squander all of that, and THIS is the result.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 04:17 PM

If you remember there was a wave of symnpathy and support from all round the planet, including from inside countries currently described as part of this "axis of evil".

There is no reason whatsoever to link September 11th to Iraq. For that matter the link to anything happening in Afghanistan is not all that convincing. The main places where September 11th appears tomhave been planned and orgaised appears to have been inside the USA, in Western Europe, and in Saudi Arabia.


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: tar_heel
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 04:09 PM

oh yea?....well,where the hell were all these millions of protestors when the USA was attacked by the terrorist organization and over 3,000 lives were lost at the world trade center and the pentegon and the hijacked plane that crashed in pennsylvainia?i don't remember any millions of them going to afghanistan,iraq or wherever to protest the attack on our country!...i think you all got your heads screwed on wrong!


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 11:33 AM

The problem is that even if sanctions and inspections work and Saddam does get rid of his WMDs, he will try to get them back. He will continue to divert money that should be spent to benefit the citizens toward his growing number of palaces, 50 at last count, and his secret programs to develop more WMDs.

It is his plan to wear down the UN as he has done before. Pres Bush woke up the UN and forced them to resume their responsibilities.

It will be embarrassing if he does disarm because it will thwart the effort to have a regime change. He may well do that to stay in power but the citizens will continue to suffer.

I think the original purpose of 1441 is to state that Iraq is in violation of previous resolutions, inspections will begin to prove or disprove if he is in compliance and if it is found that he is not in compliance it will constitute a material breach and he will be subject to serious consequences.

I think everyone will agree that he has been found not to be in compliance. The US and it's allies want to begin the serious consequences but other countries want to extend the process and give Saddam more time. Every day that passes give him a better advantage and the allies a diminished advantage.

At he risk of being over simplistic, the longer we wait, the more people will die.

Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 08:56 AM

There are games of bluff and double bluff going on.

The best hope of Saddam cooperating fully with the inspections is if he believes that if he doesn't cooperate he's had it, and that if he does there isn't going to be an invasion. Every time Bush and Co give signals that indicate that no matter what happens an invasion is on, the possibility of cooperation is diminished. It seems to me that that is a far more likely explanation if what's reported there is true.

Which I imagine is the idea, since I am sure that the last thing Bush wants is for Saddam to cooperate and be given a clean bill of health so far as Weapons of Mass Desruction are involved, because they aren't the real reason for the planned war in any case.


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 11:45 PM

Saddam Hussein, emboldened by the recent antiwar demonstrations, refuses to destroy his al Samoud missiles. Hans Blix and Baradei say that the Iraqis are not cooperating. Hans says he might persuade the Iraqis to comply in a few weeks. (ABC news)

Is this and example of the working inspections?

Is it the job of the inspectors to make Iraq comply or the job of the UN?


Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 06:14 PM

Interesting music page on that site there, Old Guy (I keep on typing Old Gut - if it gets through it'll just be a typo, nothing moe) - here's the index page - takes a bit of time loading it, but after that it's quick enough. I rather like the Assyrian Song2.


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 04:04 PM

Tia:

No you haven't which is very respectful but others have. Peace

I also found supposedly Iraqi Chat rooms at iraqvoice.com

I got into the Baghdad room but nobody would talk to me except to say Hi. Some of them were using english words. I got in the Basra room but again nobody would talk to me but get this, they were playing music. It was a voice chatroom but I could not hear it because I did not want to download the player plugin.

Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: TIA
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 03:26 PM

I sincerely hope that I have not called you stupid, gullible or blind. If I have, I apologize. Peace and Music brother Old Guy.


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: GUEST,OldGuy
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 01:24 PM

I am being called stupid, gullible, blind and vague here. I can handle the insults and I feel I can respond in kind to my oponents in this debate. Those that object to it do not have to come here and read my posts.

I just came across some interesting polls. They are at iraqvoice.com

Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 01:06 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: TIA
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 12:33 PM

"We will bear the insults and derision from anti-war protestors
with humility because we appreciate the things others take for granted"

Again, please do not speak for me or mischaracterize my position - that is derisive and insulting! And what exactly are we taking for granted?

"We will remain silent while they support
each other in their defeatist attitudes by chanting their antiwar mantras as they must do to remain a cohesive group"

Again,again, please do not speak for me or mischaracterize my attitude or motives - that is derisive and insulting!

"We will have compassion for less fortunate fellow
human beings around the world"

Many marchers have been marching for this (and leading lifestyles consistent with this) their entire lives (not just since the drive towards war in Iraq began). I support this goal %100 - glad we're on the same team. Unfortunately we disagree on how our government is going about attaining this goal.


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: annamill
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 02:37 AM

wow! Shades of Vietnam!


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: NicoleC
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 02:27 AM

I don't know, Troll but I doubt that count would be that accurate either. All "counts" are based on "yeah, looks like xxxxx, what do you think, Joe?" Ditto for counts of pictures of crowds, and give the huge number of out-of-town buses coming in and carpoolers, counting vehicles wouldn't be much help.

Usually the organizers double what they think the count is, and the police dramatically undercount... so somewhere in the middle is probably close to accurate :) In this case though, police said 150,000 and organizers said 250,000. If there's a police force on the planet that can make a decent protest crowd count, it's probably the SF Dept. They've have enough experience.

I can't find any news reports on this searching the various wire services and web. If true, I'm glad I don't pay taxes in the city, What a horrendous waste of money.

We will not attempt be the judge, and jury for the proposed actions of our government.
Translation: we abdicate our responsibilities as citizens of a democracy to control our government.


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: GUEST,oldguy
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 01:26 AM

We the silent non-demonstrators of America, do hereby proudly support our elected government in carrying out their sworn duties. We will not attempt be the judge, and jury for the proposed actions of our government. We will allow others the freedom of speech and other rights declared in the Constitution of the United States of America. We appreciate the fact that our forefathers fought and died to attain these rights. We will bear the insults and derision from anti-war protestors with humility because we appreciate the things others take for granted and we see a better life ahead, not gloom and doom. We will remain silent while they support each other in their defeatist attitudes by chanting their antiwar mantras as they must do to remain a cohesive group. We will have compassion for less fortunate fellow human beings around the world and we will support our Government at great personal and human cost in its attempts to assist those same people, while others are deadlocked with fear of the unknown.
We the non-demonstrators, hold these truths to be self evident.

Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Troll
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 01:16 AM

I heard an interesting story on the news today. It seems the City of San Francisco wanted to get an accurate count of the number of peace marchers, so they hired a company that specializes in that sort of thing.
Said company took photos with a camera that was floor-mounted in a small plane of the area where the protest was held. They then enlarged the photos to the point that they could easily pick out individuals. They also did exit counts at the BARTA stations in the area as well as counts on the Bridge and ferrys. These counts were then compared to counts taken at similar days and times when nothing was going on.
The march organizers claimed 200,00 to 250,00 marchers.
The companies count was 65,00 with a +/- 10% error.
Has anyone else seen or heard this?

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: TIA
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 12:55 AM

Attention people of Iraq:

We, the pro-war government of America, after declaring ourselves to represent the majority, and righteous above all others, regardless of what millions of people throughout the world are attempting to tell us, do hereby declare that for your own good, we must bomb and invade you in an attempt to cause a change of your regime.

We have decided that our surgical military cannot possibly harm millions of you with thousands of bombs aimed directly at you because we will aim only at military targets. We pinkie promise this will happen with no harm to you.

You must hereby duck and cover while we defeat your brutal regime on our own while we hold our treasonous peaceniks in check, because you definitely want an immediate regime change at any cost. We are convinced that the traitor peaceniks don't want a regime change because we don't see enough of them marching with posters saying anything derogatory about Saddam Hussein. Good luck.

Now, where were we? Oh yes. Every body sing: "Onward Christian Soldiers" (repeat this over and over to drown out any screams of Iraqi children, young, and old people being burned, mutilated, soaked in blood, eyes full of shrapnel, limbs being blown off, or Americans just plain being murdered during the terrorist backlash that we promise won't happen).

TIA

(If this doesn't speak for you, please don't try to speak for me. If it does speak for you,... wow).


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 22 Feb 03 - 12:24 AM

Attention people of Iraq:

We, the anti-war protestors of America, after declaring ourselves to be in the majority and righteous above all others, regardless of what our elected officials are attempting to do, do hereby declare that for your own good, no help will be forthcoming in the form of an attempt to cause a change of your regime.

We have decided that our bloodthirsty military is targeting millions of you with thousands of bombs aimed directly at you instead of military targets. We will not let this happen.

You must hereby quit whining and rise up and defeat your brutal regime on your own while we hold our military in check, that is, if you want a regime change. We are not convinced that you really want a regime change because we don't see anyone marching there with posters saying anything derogatory about Saddam Hussein. Good luck.

Now, where were we? Oh yes. Every body sing: "We will over come, We will over come." (repeat this over and over to drown out any screams of children young and old people being raped tortured, mutilated, soaked in acid, eyes being gouged out, limbs being amputated or just plain being murdered)


Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: NicoleC
Date: 21 Feb 03 - 07:06 PM

No, that was me. You asked if I would be willing to dodge bombs to bring them to justice. Hell, no! You see, there's a difference between "bring to justice" and "slaughter thousands of innocent bystanders."

As I said previously, I would absolutely not support any action -- even if theoretically on my behalf -- against either the perpetrators or the police, which wantonly jeapordized innocent lives, whether or not they included my own. One does not achieve justice for a crime by committing more crimes and causing more injustice.

If the Iraqis wished to achieve liberty by spilling their own blood, there would be a mass uprising going on. Instead, a few fringe groups, mostly not in the areas of Iraq under Saddam's control, are the ones rebelling, and none of them agree with each other or will work together. (Save the Kurds, who for all intents and purposes live in a US protectorate, and don't want to overthrow Saddam, they want their own country.)

The Iraq people are not telling us they are willing to die to get rid of Saddam. Instead, they are protesting against what they perceive as American aggression, and supporting Saddam inn response. I would wholeheartly support the US military helping a popular uprising from among multiple factions (i.e. broadbased support) in Iraq against Saddam. But the impetus needs to come within, or it is simply vaguely disguised US imperialism, not a battle for freedom or justice or supposedly "saving" the Iraqis.


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 21 Feb 03 - 06:16 PM

NicoleC:

Maybe it was CarolC but someone said they were the victim of a heinous crime while the police watched. I asked them if they would demonstrate against someone that wanted to bring the Policemen or Police force involved to justice.

I can't find my post or the answer in this writhing mass of threads. I am not saying she did not answer.


Donuel:

The anti-war demonstrators are calling us non demonstrators "warmongers". I think I'll cry.

Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: GUEST,old guy
Date: 21 Feb 03 - 12:35 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 03 - 12:16 PM

The warmongers are calling us, "peace mongers" and "psychos of hatred".


For a better america... http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/ductapeer.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: NicoleC
Date: 21 Feb 03 - 12:11 PM

Dunno, Old Guy. I can't figure out what you are referring to?


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 03 - 10:28 AM

NicoleC:

I might have missed it but did y'all answer the one about should we demonstrate against the people that were going to take out the evil policeman or police force that did somebody wrong?

Old Guy


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Subject: Tonight on Frontline
From: Alice
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 08:49 PM

To add this to an existing thread, hoping I'm not repeating what has already been posted, there is a Frontline program being aired on PBS tv tonight on Bush's agenda in Iraq - after the war.

Bush's Grand Strategy - The War Behind Closed Doors.


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: NicoleC
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 08:38 PM

As long as ya'll are randomy; making up stuff about the "evil" done by peopel marching for peace and not blowing innocent foks up, how's this for an effect of the peace marches:

Millions of middle easterners are starting to think that the west, and in particular the US, is waging a religious crusade against them. Then they are egged on by the likes of bin Laden. (And I gotta admit sometimes it seems like that's the Shrub's plan from this side of the ocean, too.) If it's a crusade against Islam, it's ever good Muslim's duty to defend their faith.

Millions of decadent, western people showed up to say they don't agree. How many terrorist converts and attacks on the west will that prevent?


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 07:24 PM

I see a bright side to these marches. Saddam will get emboldened by the number of people marching and screw with the inspectors so bad that they loose patience and declare inspections are not working.

The inspectors leave and the alliance moves in. Maybe us "warmongers" should go out and join the marches too and speed things along so our guys are not roasting in those chemical proof suits in May.

Required equipment:

Dirty tee shirt with Marijuana leaf on the back and peace symbol on the front.

Dirty patched up bell bottom jeans

Sandals

Long scraggly hair

Sun glasses

Sign saying "make love not war"

Optional equipment to enhance credibility:

VW Microbus painted with peace symbols, doves, flowers and various anti war slogans.


Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: MMario
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 04:01 PM

Thank you! I was beginning to think I had imagined it!


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 03:47 PM

Here's a link to a Reuters report on that.


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Troll
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 03:41 PM

Funny that I didn't see it in any of the news sites that I frequent. Anyone?

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: MMario
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 03:15 PM

heard it on the tube - (I wasn't watching at the time - in fact in the other room so I only heard the discussion about the destruction of the mustard gas) I *do* remember it clearly because my grandfather was gassed in WWI - had permanent damage to his lungs from the mustard gas - so the fact they had it stockpiled registered quite well. also that the location and quantity had been known since the previous team had been tossed.

Probably either fox news or msnbc as those are the two my B-I-L watches most.


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Subject: RE: BS: MILLIONS MARCHING FOR PEACE!
From: Troll
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 03:11 PM

MMario, do you remember where you saw that? I sure missed it.

troll


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