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How to End Racism

CarolC 10 Aug 05 - 06:40 PM
jpk 10 Aug 05 - 04:25 PM
Le Scaramouche 10 Aug 05 - 02:55 PM
GUEST,David Hannam 10 Aug 05 - 01:49 PM
George Papavgeris 10 Aug 05 - 12:38 PM
GUEST,David Hannam 10 Aug 05 - 12:26 PM
George Papavgeris 10 Aug 05 - 12:08 PM
George Papavgeris 10 Aug 05 - 12:06 PM
GUEST,David Hannam 10 Aug 05 - 10:47 AM
George Papavgeris 10 Aug 05 - 10:39 AM
Paul Burke 10 Aug 05 - 10:32 AM
Le Scaramouche 10 Aug 05 - 08:44 AM
CarolC 10 Aug 05 - 08:33 AM
GUEST,David Hannam 10 Aug 05 - 08:32 AM
CarolC 10 Aug 05 - 08:21 AM
Le Scaramouche 10 Aug 05 - 08:12 AM
GUEST,David Hannam 10 Aug 05 - 08:06 AM
Le Scaramouche 10 Aug 05 - 08:04 AM
DavidHannam 10 Aug 05 - 07:57 AM
Le Scaramouche 10 Aug 05 - 07:54 AM
DavidHannam 10 Aug 05 - 07:50 AM
Le Scaramouche 10 Aug 05 - 07:43 AM
GUEST 10 Aug 05 - 07:24 AM
muppett 10 Aug 05 - 07:15 AM
GUEST,David Hannam 10 Aug 05 - 07:02 AM
Le Scaramouche 10 Aug 05 - 06:01 AM
Le Scaramouche 10 Aug 05 - 05:38 AM
GUEST,David Hannam 10 Aug 05 - 04:15 AM
CarolC 09 Aug 05 - 09:32 PM
Bobert 09 Aug 05 - 09:21 PM
Little Hawk 09 Aug 05 - 09:21 PM
Bobert 09 Aug 05 - 09:18 PM
CarolC 09 Aug 05 - 08:59 PM
Bobert 09 Aug 05 - 08:52 PM
jpk 09 Aug 05 - 08:27 PM
Shakey 09 Aug 05 - 08:15 PM
jpk 09 Aug 05 - 08:15 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Aug 05 - 07:38 PM
freda underhill 09 Aug 05 - 07:21 PM
CarolC 09 Aug 05 - 07:16 PM
Azizi 09 Aug 05 - 07:13 PM
Shakey 09 Aug 05 - 07:06 PM
Le Scaramouche 09 Aug 05 - 05:55 PM
GUEST,David Hannam 09 Aug 05 - 05:45 PM
GUEST,AB 09 Aug 05 - 05:40 PM
GUEST,David Hannam 09 Aug 05 - 05:30 PM
GUEST,David Hannam 09 Aug 05 - 05:28 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Aug 05 - 03:39 PM
GUEST,David Hannam 09 Aug 05 - 12:00 PM
Le Scaramouche 09 Aug 05 - 11:52 AM
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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 06:40 PM

"you people"?

I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself, I just follow my conscience. It's the best I can do. And yes, I certainly do profit from it. I find it much easier to live with myself when I follow my conscience.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: jpk
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 04:25 PM

maybe a real space invasion with real things from another race,might make you people relize we are the human race,and you would put your petty bickering aside.
but i doubt it.
as much as you dwell on it,makes it sound like you are trying to cover up a guilty feeling,or maybe profit from it.
have a great day an god bless if your willing.
going to go play conspiracy theory.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 02:55 PM

Haven't you been convicted too?


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 01:49 PM

I prefer excitement.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 12:38 PM

Boring is good, David. Some kinds of excitement I can do without.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 12:26 PM

El Grecko you live a very boring life debating the meaning of 'many'.lol.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 12:08 PM

"Many" is such a relative term... My son, when he was little, used "four" to mean "many", seeing that he could only count to four at the time.

"See Daddy, all those fish - there are four of them!"


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 12:06 PM

"...all I have to do is
Dream... dream-dream-dream..."


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 10:47 AM

haha, self-confessed nazi, i challenge you to find where i confessed to being a nazi? Well....?

And I don't think he'll convert any Mudcatter to voting for BNP

Actually i didn't need to convert, many of mudcatters already voted BNP in the last general election.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 10:39 AM

Just 'aving a larf, Paul. We know who DH is. And I don't think he'll convert any Mudcatter to voting for BNP. My view is: As long as he is spending time here unproductively, he is not spending it anywhere else... get my meanin'?


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Paul Burke
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 10:32 AM

Yes, Gable was convicted of attempted burglary, in 1963: of the home of the Nazi "historian", David Irving. Good for him. Irving is now bankrupt after trying to sue academics who exposed him:
David Irving

And Hannam is a self- confessed nazi. We'd only just seen the back of MG too.

I think Mudcat should be ashamed of itself for giving this spreader of hate and destruction a platform to spout from. His politics are truly sick.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 08:44 AM

If anything, I assume they are anti-fascist, unless you consider fascism to be a race?


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 08:33 AM

They hate hate. Ooohhh, scary, scary....


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 08:32 AM

Indeed they are. Or is your definition of racism only one way carol, i.e white on ethnic?

Searclight, run by a convicted burglar. Oh yes, lovely.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 08:21 AM

you have no idea who searchlight is, yet you quote then as a source, a hate-organisation is your source led by a convicted burlgar, and you use them as a source

Searchlight Magazine - a "hate-organization"?.

LOL indeed.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 08:12 AM

Put up a link to a source someone doesn't like, you mean?


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 08:06 AM

Never mind, lesson learnt. I made the same mistake once too.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 08:04 AM

I didn't bother to check the rest of that site out because I have already read books on the subject and the information tallied. It's a link, not a source, I use books for that.
It came up in a google search. I did that because, frankly, some people might like to type up entire chapters of books, but I'm not one of them.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: DavidHannam
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 07:57 AM

you have no idea who searchlight is, yet you quote then as a source, a hate-organisation is your source led by a convicted burlgar, and you use them as a source. lol.

Next time, check the validity of your sources.

By all means, if you want to recommend a few books please do.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 07:54 AM

No idea who Searchlight is, but that page on early fascists in Britain is good enough. better than the historical articles on the BNP site.
I could recommend a few books if you'd like. Doubt you'd read them, probably bandy the word LIBERAL about.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: DavidHannam
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 07:50 AM

Well it is silly because you have no comprehension of the BNP, and your source for your opinion was the 'unbiased' hate group Searchlight, led by convicted burglar gerry gable.

Prior to the link i thought you were an intelligant person, but that link merely exposed your weakness in your thinking.

You are a web-surfer and sadly nothing much more.

As Ted once said, no original thought on the internet.

Basically, you lost. lol


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 07:43 AM

Ok, David, why is the link silly?


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 07:24 AM

what guest?


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: muppett
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 07:15 AM

Guest, it depended on the hypothectical situation and what hypothectical mood I was in and where I hypothectically was.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 07:02 AM

Aw, run out of non-sensical points to make, lolol, i wondered if you would resort to unintelligant posts with wierd links, and you did.

Thank you, i had a bet with another mudcatter that you would post a link.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 06:01 AM

Looks like the BNP is harking back to the first wave of British Fascists


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 05:38 AM

Don't have a clue what poverty is? Good one.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 04:15 AM

I mean, look at TV 'er pictures in a news magazine and you see kids in ther Middle Esat with "Air Jordon's" on their feet and McDonald's in the backdrounds...

Yes, but you are now reffering to economic effects of globalism, which although are interchangeble to some degree with multi-culturalism, are different. Your point relys on the opinion on whether someone who opposes multi-culturalism supports a more protectionist economy, whether this is the case is hard to tell.

Yeah, maybe the 50's or 60's or 40's fir that matter, is waht you romanticize over but the world has moved on since those days and we are all havin' to cope...

I certainly, nor do the BNP romantisize over the 40s, 50s, and especially the 60s, lol, simply because there is no doubt that times have never been perfect in this country.

However, times were more stable in some ways. We did not have the regular full size riots to the scale we see now caused by ethnic minorities feeling somehow deprived.

Sociologists blame poverty and deprivation on the cause of ethnic riots, but let us face facts, these naturalised people don't have a clue what poverty is. In the 1930's, our people faced a huge depression not seen since in this country, did we riot? No, did we throw petrol bombs at our police force? God no. We marched, we petitioned, etc, but we did not riot.

SO there is no excuse for the unstable ethnic riots we see take place.

Racism, I guesxs, is a coping mechanism but not a realistic one since one day the wall will crack an' then you'll have to deal with it... Sure, there a re lots of folks who have moved to very remote places to live with folks "like themselves"... They are holed up in remore mountain communes in Wyoming and, hey, bless their hearts...

Again, if by racism you mean a person believing they are superior to another race, then i agree, it must be some sort of coping mechanism, but if you refer to people wanting to love amongst their own kind, then it is not racism, but the most natural thing in the world.

But part of this process is accepting that we have no reason to think that we are superior to anyone else and the by-product of that acceptence is that we come to appreciate our differences as well as our similarities...

When we get to that level then the differences will not seem all that different at all...


Yes, but the above model is reliant upon all peoples of all backgrounds accepting this model, this is clearly never going to happen, unless you live in a liberal fantasy world, but in the real world, when in Oldham, there are streets i can't walk down for abuse i recieved for simply walking down an area that wasn't 'mine'.

What you are saying is correct, we should accept these differences and appreciate them, but i believe that is only possible through mutual understanding and respecting of our respective cultural borders.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 09:32 PM

Wow. Thanks Bobert.

In my own case, "living with my own", which I take to mean "living with those closest to me" (my family), means living with people who are of European ancestry (northern Europe, western Europe, eastern Europe, and southern Europe), African ancestry, Native American ancestry, Jewish ancestry, and Asian ancestry, because my family has people with all of those backgrounds.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 09:21 PM

Opps....

How'd that happen???

Yeah, this is the real world... Deal with it...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 09:21 PM

Racism is learned behaviour, all right. You want to end it? Don't teach it or demonstrate it to your kids or to anyone else.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 09:18 PM

BTW, for the record, ahhhh, there isn't a more open minded person in Mudville than CarolC... Okay, maybe a couple folks up to her level but none surpass her open-mindedness....

Sorry if open mindedness is gettin' in the way of some folks agendas of "livin' with their own"...

I mean, get real here...

Open yer own minds to the realities.... This is the rea


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 08:59 PM

an carol i won't tell you what to think,just wish you would open your mind to the possiblty of other explanations.other than it is the amaricans fault or the western worlds responsabilty.

You are making the assumption that I have not already done so. And your assumption is incorrect.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 08:52 PM

There's one thing that you have not taken into account, David... Yeah, you'd love to just be with yer own but, hey, in this increasingly tribalized world we live in, livin' with one's own is no longed a vailble option...

I mean, look at TV 'er pictures in a news magazine and you see kids in ther Middle Esat with "Air Jordon's" on their feet and McDonald's in the backdrounds...

Yeah, maybe the 50's or 60's or 40's fir that matter, is waht you romanticize over but the world has moved on since those days and we are all havin' to cope...

Racism, I guesxs, is a coping mechanism but not a realistic one since one day the wall will crack an' then you'll have to deal with it... Sure, there a re lots of folks who have moved to very remote places to live with folks "like themselves"... They are holed up in remore mountain communes in Wyoming and, hey, bless their hearts...

Bottom line, there ain't 'nuff Wyoming's to go around so fir the rest it's gonna be the painfull "meltin' pot" which, I personally don't think is painfull at all but very exciting and mind-openin'...

But part of this process is accepting that we have no reason to think that we are superior to anyone else and the by-product of that acceptence is that we come to appreciate our differences as well as our similarities...

When we get to that level then the differences will not seem all that different at all...

Like I have said before, it is those in power who use these differneces to keep folks fight' amongst themselves while they fleece us...

Bobert
\


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: jpk
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 08:27 PM

i still believe that for the most part,racism exist as we see it because of people useing it as a way to gain or keep control/power over selected groups of people.mainly for there own gain in what ever form they desire.
prime example to mind,hitler,and the german distrust of the jew.
ben laden and the muslim distrust of the west.
they both could speak withpompous conviction,which is so much more convincing than reason to most people.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Shakey
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 08:15 PM

This thread was weaved between colour, race, culture and religion, and Carol is right to try and get definitions for racism and race.

I believe that colour prejudice is simple illogical, it makes no sense whatsoever. However that some people, whichever side of the fence they sit, favour one culture or one religion is a standpoint that can be debated. Cultures and religions have belief systems, in the case of religion these are, unless I've missed something pretty spectacular, purely faith based and are therefore not only open to criticism but demand it.

Culture is also a minefield, for one thing culture's are not static; Victorian England is not the same as England today. Would we want to go back, well maybe a few folk would but not many I'm sure. So culture's are different not only between each other but also within each other. If you accept this, which I do, then it's perfectly sensible to have an opinion as to which culture you think is best.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: jpk
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 08:15 PM

sorry McGgrath.i spend most of my time running a lathe or mill,sometimes welder,only play on this thing for a few min. a day.
i am a one finger typeist
an carol i won't tell you what to think,just wish you would open your mind to the possiblty of other explanations.other than it is the amaricans fault or the western worlds responsabilty.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 07:38 PM

xenophobia - distrust of outsiders and strangers - may be natural. "Racism" - where people see differences of colour and such like between their neighbours as defining them as strangers and outsiders - definitely isn't. The concept of "race" is an artificial construct. There are diferences between people, and they can lead to problems, but they don't particularly coincide with "race".


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 07:21 PM

When my father turned seventy, we organised a big party for him to celebrate. He was talking to me about it before hand, and asked me if I remembered his friend Bob. Of course I did.

when i was growing up, every Saturday afternoon during the football season, Dad used to take me to watch the Aussie Rules football (Ainslie Football Club) in Canberra and he and Bob used to lean against the fence watching the football, while I sat in the stand with Bob's daughter Auriel and talked all afternoon.

Before the party, Dad asked me if I remembered anything special about Bob, and I said no. He smiled and told me that Bob was Aboriginal. When Bob arrived, I looked and realised that he was, and that all those years I hadnt even noticed.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 07:16 PM

quite a few peope on here seem to have forgotten what racism is.

Look in a dictionary. It is a belief "that one race is superior to another."


Now define "race" for us, AB.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 07:13 PM

"I would go as far as to say that young children are, in fact, colour blind. Racism is learned."

I agree.

Personal racism is learned and is supported by institutional racism in the mass media, educational systems, health care systems, juvenile justice systems, adult criminal justice systems, housing sytems, etc, etc etc.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Shakey
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 07:06 PM

There are, alas, no easy answers.

The mother of my son's girlfriend, who is Pakistani, thinks that pakistani girls who date white boys are whores (her words not mine). My son was also attacked in the street by a group of asians because he had an asian girl on his arm.

While I have heard it many times on TV etc, the only time I have heard the word "nigger" used in my presence was by a well educated pakistani man when he was referring to West Indians.

I certainly don't agree that children more easily mix with their "own colour", my kids never had a problem, I would go as far as to say that young children are, in fact, colour blind. Racism is learned.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 05:55 PM

What of your classic approach, screaming LIBERAL, LIBERAL, LIBERAL (guess MARXIST is out of fashion)?


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 05:45 PM

A sensible post AB.

The only difference is that i don't think, as your example illustrated, that childrens natural instinct to mix with their own is racist, it is as you natural, and most children, like most adults bear no hatred towards people of other ethnic groups, but merely feel most comfortable amongst their own.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,AB
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 05:40 PM

quite a few peope on here seem to have forgotten what racism is.

Look in a dictionary. It is a belief "that one race is superior to another."

The thread in entitled "How to end racism." Racism will always be present eventually as long as their is a multiCULTURAL society. Children at play schools comment on other peoples skin colour and mix with their own colour more as it is natural, that is with NO external influence. Given time, racism will occur. It is a natural feeling.

"Beating the shit out of racists" as one post above put it will only cause people to bottle up their frustrations/fears about other races, and that is more dangerous.

We need honest debate without the fear of being branded racists etc
We need one culture. British.

all the best
AB


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 05:30 PM

Poor Paul, unable to join in an intelligant conversation like most, resorts to classic liberal bashing, screaming..."hater, hater, hater".

Paul, your post speaks volumes about your iq.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 05:28 PM

lolol


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 03:39 PM

I rather take that as a way of confirming that Paul was on target.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 12:00 PM

You are too late Paul, that link has been posted, eeeh, what now, say 30 times. lololol.

I'm glad you believe all you read in the media, you must be very content in your life.


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Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 11:52 AM

If you are going to blather on, get the details straight. I know, hard work, it might involve some thought and maybe reading a book or two.


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