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Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)

DigiTrad:
GAUDETE


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: Gaudete (24)
Lyr Req: Alternative Gaudete lyrics (6)
Lyr Add: Gaudy Tree (parody of 'Gaudete') (6)


In Mudcat MIDIs:
Gaudete (Full Arrangement)
Gaudete (Melody line only.)


GUEST,leeneia 09 Dec 15 - 10:01 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Dec 15 - 06:08 AM
Nigel Parsons 21 Nov 10 - 12:54 PM
Jack Blandiver 12 Dec 09 - 03:51 AM
Artful Codger 12 Dec 09 - 12:30 AM
Jim Dixon 11 Dec 09 - 07:02 PM
Jack Blandiver 10 Dec 09 - 01:43 PM
GUEST,leeneia 10 Dec 09 - 11:14 AM
Artful Codger 09 Dec 09 - 02:25 PM
GUEST,leeneia 09 Dec 09 - 02:01 PM
GUEST,leeneia 09 Dec 09 - 09:37 AM
Artful Codger 09 Dec 09 - 06:04 AM
Artful Codger 08 Dec 09 - 05:33 PM
GUEST,leeneia 07 Dec 09 - 03:38 PM
Artful Codger 07 Dec 09 - 11:38 AM
Nigel Parsons 07 Dec 09 - 11:28 AM
Muttley 16 May 07 - 07:16 AM
Edmond 16 May 07 - 04:22 AM
Muttley 16 May 07 - 03:07 AM
GUEST,karen 15 May 07 - 11:37 PM
Nigel Parsons 05 Dec 06 - 04:26 PM
Joe Offer 26 Mar 05 - 02:26 AM
Nigel Parsons 25 Mar 05 - 08:03 AM
GUEST,Eldenath 15 Dec 04 - 03:48 AM
Georgiansilver 13 Dec 04 - 11:18 AM
BusyBee Paul 13 Dec 04 - 02:57 AM
Liz the Squeak 13 Dec 04 - 01:28 AM
Georgiansilver 12 Dec 04 - 07:33 PM
Georgiansilver 12 Dec 04 - 07:30 PM
GUEST,Hazel 12 Dec 04 - 06:16 PM
GUEST,Andrew greenhill 23 Dec 03 - 10:40 AM
YorkshireYankee 07 Dec 03 - 06:13 PM
Nigel Parsons 07 Dec 03 - 03:49 PM
GUEST,Santa 07 Dec 03 - 03:43 PM
Nigel Parsons 07 Dec 03 - 02:52 PM
Joe Offer 07 Dec 03 - 12:45 PM
GUEST,Mark Craig 07 Dec 03 - 10:08 AM
Mark Cohen 12 Jul 01 - 07:53 PM
Liz the Squeak 12 Jul 01 - 05:59 PM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 12 Jul 01 - 11:53 AM
Jim Cheydi 10 Jul 01 - 12:50 PM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 10 Jul 01 - 12:35 PM
Snuffy 08 Sep 00 - 04:38 PM
Roddy 15 Dec 98 - 04:37 PM
jeq@cppuk.co.uk 15 Dec 98 - 02:28 PM
BSeed 25 Aug 98 - 02:50 AM
Joe Offer 24 Aug 98 - 02:15 PM
Martin Ryan 24 Aug 98 - 01:29 PM
Pete M 23 Aug 98 - 11:31 PM
Joe Offer 23 Aug 98 - 06:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 10:01 AM

Long ago somebody asked about the sheet music for Gaudete. It can be found by searching here:

https://musescore.com/


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 06:08 AM

refresh;

Gaudete Sunday (3rd in Advent) this year falls on December 13th

Cheers


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Subject: Gaudete
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 12:54 PM

refresh;

Gaudete Sunday (3rd in Advent) this year falls on December 12th

Cheers


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 Dec 09 - 03:51 AM

I remember singing a carol to the melody of Personant Hodie at a Roman Catholic Mass some years ago; can't remember what it was though... Let us sing, sing, sing;let us sing, sing sing... Something like that maybe? I remember thinking how nice it was to sing the melody in context rather than as an exercise in early music, which inspired me to try the rounds from the Llibre Vermell with a class of boisterous 11-year-olds - Splendens Ceptigera & Laudemus Virgenem - which I've also used in folk-club singarounds. Great icebreakers...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 12 Dec 09 - 12:30 AM

leeneia: I finally thought of the other good song from that collection- it's Personant Hodie.

...which has been translated as "Let the boys' cheerful noise" ("The Boys' Carol"), included (or translated?) by Elizabeth Poston in The Penguin Book of Christmas Carols.

Other popular carols from the Cantiones:

"Resonet in laudibus" (a 14th c. German song "Nunc angelorum") mostly known to us as "Joseph, lieber Joseph mein", "Let the voice of praise resound" or as Neale's free translation "Christ was born on Christmas Day"

"In vernali tempore", adapted by Neal as "O'er the hill and o'er the vale"

I suppose I should also mention "Corde natus ex Parentis" (De Eucharistia)--not among the facsimile set--which became "Of the Father's Heart Begotten". Neale also prepared a version of this under a slightly different title, which I've forgotten (his being inferior in quality, to my mind.)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 07:02 PM

Gaudete begins on page 81 and ends on page 82 of Piae Cantiones. (Click the links for the PDF files.)

There are some possibly significant differences in spelling between those images and what is posted above and in the DT. Here's my attempt at an accurate transcription. It is not prejudiced by any actual knowledge of Latin!


Gaudete, gaudete Christus est natus ex Maria virgine, gaudete.

Tempus adest gratia, hoc quod optabamus,
Carmina laticiae devotè reddamus.

Deus homo factus est Natura mirante,
Mundus renovatus est à Christo regnante.

Ezechielis porta clausa pertransitur,
Unde lux est orta, salus invenitur.

Ergo nostra concio psallat iam in lustro,
Benedicat Domino, salus Re[gi]* nostro.


[* The letters in brackets are illegible in the online image.]


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 01:43 PM

As kids we used to sing:

Gawd 'elp us, Gawd 'eld us,
It's f***ing Christmas,
Shite presents and Crap TV,
Gawd 'elp us!


The regular words of Gaudete were savagely chanted by us third years (11-12), arms linked as we marched across the school field with the sole intent of terrorising first and second years.

Ah, the sweet delights of a folky childhood!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 11:14 AM

Thanks for the reference, Artful. Now people can find the song right on the net.


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Subject: Re: Tempus adest floridum/Good King Wenceslas
From: Artful Codger
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 02:25 PM

Creeping further about "Tempus":
The Cyberhymnal contains "Tempus adest floridum", "Flower Carol" ("Spring has now unwrapped the flowers", from The Oxford Book of Carols, 1928) and another carol set to the same tune, "Gentle Mary Laid Her Child", by Joseph S. Cook, 1919.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 02:01 PM

I finally thought of the other good song from that collection - it's Personant Hodie.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 09:37 AM

Thanks for the info, Artful. That was mostly a joke about the Viking and his wife. (Hagar the Horrible is a cartoon character in the local paper.)

"Tempus adest floridum" has been translated into a fine spring song in English - 'Spring has now Unwrapped the Flowers.' You can find it in the Sing-Out book. I like to do it with my friends every spring.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 06:04 AM

Looking just a tad further, commentary on the Piae Cantiones says that over half the songs are believed to be of Finnish (or Swedish) origin, having been encountered in no other works, and that the collection was unknown in England until 1852. The Vikings may have scavenged some materials incorporated into the Cantiones, but the work itself was Finnish.

Thread creep:
The collection contains 74 songs; there are at least 6 folios that I've seen referenced. The facsimile collection linked above only reproduces 31 of the songs (2 folios?, the first being the Christmas songs). "Tempus..." is not among them, belonging to the third folio.

John Mason Neale freely translated, or set to new lyrics, twelve of the Christmas songs, published in his Carols for Christmas-tide (1853). These included "Good King Wenceslas", "Christ was born on Christmas day" and "Good Christian men, rejoice". Neale followed this with twelve more adaptations comprising Carols for Easter-tide.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 05:33 PM

Could be because Finnish repositories are less prone to fires and inquisitions. ;-}

You're right about "Good King Wenceslas"; per The New Oxford Book of Carols, the tune in the Piae is a spring song, "Tempus adest floridum." The site www.Spielleut.de has facsimile scans of the Piae Cantiones, including "Gaudete" and several other familiar songs, but "Tempus..." is not listed there. It might be hiding under yet another name--I haven't taken the time to check each page.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 03:38 PM

" this is a Finnish rendition of Medieval Latin. They wrote it in a sauna, I think."

Yes, this song is from the book Piae Cantiones, which appeared in 1582 but which contained songs from earlier times. Was it actually published in Finland or did the publisher merely find the tunes in Finland?

I believe that the tune we use for 'Good King Wenceslas' came from the same book.

Once I was reading a book about manuscripts from the British Isles, and it was remarked that many fine Irish and English MS's are in Scandinavian museums. You know why? Vikings. They stole them.

I picture Hagar the Horrible returning home with a beautifully illuminated MS in his loot. He rips off the golden cover and gloats over the red and blue glass 'jewels.' He is about to toss the rest in the midden when his wife says, "Gimme that!"

The rest is not history, but it's how the MS wound up in Finland.

Ive sung 'Gaudete' in choir. It's a good, lively, song.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 11:38 AM

Do you dress in your gaude-est best?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Dec 09 - 11:28 AM

Refresh:
Next Sunday (3rd in Advent) being Gaudete Sunday


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: Muttley
Date: 16 May 07 - 07:16 AM

Sorry Edmund - I have a live version of Gaudete, the version on "Original Masters" and an MP3 file on my iRiver - and in all of them Maddy sings the versions Joe posted.

As for the "bad Latin' phrase John from Brisbane first cited (and seems to keep cropping up!)
I learned it originally as
    "Nulli Desperandum Illegitimos Carborundum" - not sure there IS a 'noli'.

BTW John - it's kinda bad luck for Aussies to go 'round saying things like "Such is Life" - Y'know what happened to the last bugger that came out with that one!!!!!

Muttley in Melbourne.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: Edmond
Date: 16 May 07 - 04:22 AM

I had thought it to be 'Noli (Do not - imp) Illegitimi Carborundum'.

Without wishing to be a smartarse, didn't Maddy (Steeleye) sing 'Christus natus hodie' rather than 'Deus, etc' ?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: Muttley
Date: 16 May 07 - 03:07 AM

Joe, Alison and Martin: I went to a Catholic Boys College here in Melbourne and learned Latin in Form 1 (Year 7, these days).

It was my favourite subject - though I was barely slightly above-average at doing it; I loved the challenge. Unfortunately I contracted Hepatitis A sometime in early Term 2 (we had three terms a year in those days, remember?) and ended up missing the second half of Term 2 and most of Term 3 - returned to school about 2weeks before end of year exams. Despite no work being sent home for me I managed to pass every subject except Maths B (basically, calculus/pure maths) and Latin - although I did manage to get 35% for my mark and the entire exam was on second-half-of-the-year material.

I asked to continue doing it in Form 2 and was rejected - got told I was an idiot and couldn't cope.

Talk about devastated.

However, some remained and I found I was able to translate some inscriptions on ruins when I visited Rome and Pompeii and later Nimes and Pont du Gard in France. Great sense of satisfaction.

Muttley


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: GUEST,karen
Date: 15 May 07 - 11:37 PM

ok, help...what does "parvum puella" mean?

if you know, plse email me @ terankaren@aol.com

thank you
    "Puella parva" means little girl, but somehow I suspect you don't really care.
    -Joe Offer-Forum Moderator-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete (from Steeleye Span)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 04:26 PM

Refresh


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 02:26 AM

Looks pretty good to me, Nigel - although I have to say, I prefer the Latin. I've seen very few truly satisfying translations of Latin hymns. I suppose most of the hymn translations I know are from the age of Victoria. There's often a lot of sappy sentimentality that won't be found in the original Latin text.

I won't accuse Nigel of that, but there's something about his translation that doesn't flow quite poetically. Not that I could do any better.

Note that I changed the wording in the post above to indicate more clearly that the translation in that message is from The Shorter New Oxford Book of Carols - but I agree with it. Earlier translations in this thread were from the flawed Steeleye Span transcription of this song.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 08:03 AM

Just spotted the partial attempt at making the words (in English) rhyme & scan, had another go to finish it. I don't like my version of the penultimate verse (If it does signify Mary's virginity then 'penetrated' may be a bad choice of words!).
I also seem to have taken a couple of liberties with Joe's translation, which I assume is accurate rather than idiomatic.

GAUDETE (CELEBRATE)

Celebrate! Celebrate! for Christ the Saviour
Of the Virgin Mary's born; Celebrate!

Now the time of Grace has come, for which we have prayéd
Now let our devotions be with songs of joy arrayéd

God his manhood now takes on, Nature stands/is amazéd
Christ The King renews the world; may His name be praiséd

The closed gate of Ezekial has been penetrated
By the light out of the East, salvation's located

Thus, let our assembly praise when comes purification
Let it bless the lord, and greet the King of every nation.

Any takers to improve on this?

Joe, any major misuses of the original?

Nigel


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: GUEST,Eldenath
Date: 15 Dec 04 - 03:48 AM

I not only have the latin words, but their translation. If no one has gotten back to you already on this and you still need them:

Chorus:        Gaudette, gaudette Christus est natus
                  Ex Maria virginea, gaudete
                  Gaudette, gaudette Christus est natus
                     Ex Maria virginea, gaudette

Tempus ad est gratiae hoc quad optabamus
Carmina laetitiae devote redamus

Dues homo factus est naturam erante
Mundus renovatus est a Christo regnante

Ezecheelis porta clausa per transitor
Unde luz es orta sallus invenitor

Ergo nostra contio psallet jam in lustro
Benedicat Domino sallus regi nostro


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 11:18 AM

OOOOPS......So it is......hadn't even had a drink...and I didn't even mention that you....BusyBee Paul.... had sung the song with me joining the chorus...But I have now and thank you for singing it.
Best wishes, Mike.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: BusyBee Paul
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 02:57 AM

Mike,
You obviously found it a very moving experience if you performed it a month early in November!. Sorry mate, but Christmas is a lot closer than you might think!.

Deirdre


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 01:28 AM

I sang Gaudete in the amphitheatre in a Roman town called Callevae (near Reading in Berkshire) where the accoustics are the most incredible thing I've ever heard (it was the only song in Latin I knew then that didn't need a full choir and orchestra). For an earth bank ring open to the skies, and surrounded by trees, it was stunning! The hair on the back of my neck stood up and it felt incredible!

I've also done it as part of a quintent, during midnight mass on Christmas Eve, standing apart from the rest of the congregation and choir, under the tower. Again, an incredible feeling, but not so powerful as the amphitheatre!

LTS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 07:33 PM

Sorry, Guest Hazel...just performed it tonight Nov 12th at my Church "Do"..go to wewbsite.....
http://steeleye.freeservers.com/saltch.htm
Best wishes, Mike.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 07:30 PM

Guest Hazel.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: GUEST,Hazel
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 06:16 PM

Hi,
I'v been asked to lead a rendition of 'Gaudete' at a carol singing get together on the 26th. I'd like to do it justice - can you supply me with the sheet music?
yours hopefully
Hazel


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: GUEST,Andrew greenhill
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 10:40 AM

Gaudete is available in score exactly as sung by Steeleye Span. I am the official source for Steeleye Span sheet music. The tune to the verses is different to that in "The New Oxford Book of Carols".
Andrew greenhill


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 06:13 PM

Here's a link to the words for "Awayday".
(You'll have to scroll down below "Arrest These Merry Gentlemen".)

Cheers,

YY


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 03:49 PM

Just re-singing through what I wrote, I seem to have been in Church choir mode. To replace missing syllables, imagine an accent over the penultimate letter of each of the last 4 lines, i.e prayéd etc.
That leaves the second line (of the 4) needing a grace note to allow a singer to 'slip over' "with"

Nigel (trying to spot my goofs before anyone else does!)


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: GUEST,Santa
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 03:43 PM

WellI learnt it as Non Illegitemi Carborundum, which is even worse Latin but rolls off the tongue better.

Bragging time - if at 2nd hand. On holiday in Galloway my wife Meg and I stopped to view a ruined abbey south of Ayr. We were told that the chapterhouse still had its roof and the acoustics were marvellous. What to sing? Gaudete of course, and they were.

Some weeks later, on a singing course in Cumbria, Meg stood under an old bridge with Maddy Prior, told the story, and Maddy sang Gaudete for her there and then.


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 02:52 PM

So how about some help to put Joe's translation to the tune?
Just an attempt at the first 2 verses and chorus;
A, I must leave something for others
B, The Ezekiel verse could prove awkward!


Celebrate! Celebrate! for Christ the Saviour
Of the Virgin Mary's born; Celebrate!
Celebrate! Celebrate! for Christ the Saviour
Of the Virgin Mary's born; Celebrate!

Now the time of Grace has come, for which we have prayed
Now let our devotions be with songs of joy arrayed

God his manhood now takes on, Nature stands (is) amazed
Christ The King renews the world; may His name be praised

Nigel


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 12:45 PM

Hi, Mark - I moved your request here to our main thread on "gaudete."

At the top of the thread, you will find links to the melody and to a full arrangement. Right-click on the links to download the files to your computer, and then use any MIDI software to change them into sheet music.

Hope that helps.

-Joe Offer (e-mail snet)-


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Steeleye Span music
From: GUEST,Mark Craig
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 10:08 AM

Hi, there
I am trying to get hold of the musical arrangement of the different harmonies for Gaudete as sung by Steeleye on Original Masters. I have located several midi files but I do not appear to be able to download them for the dots, only to play them.

Can you help
Many thanks
Mark Craig
mark@markcraig.co.uk


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 07:53 PM

John in Brisbane, I don't know how well you'll take to a 3-years-too-late correction, but I learned the phrase as "Illegitimi Non Carborundum". Still bad Latin, but not quite AS bad!

Aloha, alohae, alohae, aloham, aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 05:59 PM

Try running it (in latin) through a spellchecker... love them bandicoots....!

LTS


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 11:53 AM

Uh, yeah. I just had fun playing with the midi file and reworking it for my women's chorus. Stay tuned- we'll perform it this December!


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Jim Cheydi
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 12:50 PM

Awayday, awayday Loco in transit Omnibus, Saint Pancreas Awayday


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 12:35 PM

refresh


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Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: GAUDETE (from Steeleye Span)
From: Snuffy
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 04:38 PM

Joe,

It looks like your corrected words have not made in into the DT yet, nor has a tune.

Of the three tunes in this thread, Alison's is the closest to Steeleye Span, because they use the first verse (sung twice) as a chorus:

CHORUS
Gaudete, gaudete! Christus est natus
Ex Maria virgine: Gaudete!
Gaudete, gaudete! Christus est natus
Ex Maria virgine: Gaudete!


Tempus adest gratiae, hoc quod optabamus
Carmina laetitiae devote redamus.

Gaudete, etc


BTW - on the recording I have, they sing it in C minor, not A minor. Here's an ABC in that key.

X: 132
T:Gaudete
M:4/4
L:1/4
Q:100
S:Steeleye Span
N:filename [GAUDET
K:Cm
|:c2 c2|B2 cd|
M:3/4
e2e|d2c|
M:4/4
B2 B2|B2 c2|d3 c|
M:3/4
B2 c|d2 c|
M:4/4
B2 c2:|
cc Bc|ed c2|cA GA|F2 F2|
FFAF|AB c2|ec de|c2 c2||

Wassail! V


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Roddy
Date: 15 Dec 98 - 04:37 PM

Puer puellaque in horto sunt. Roddy


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: jeq@cppuk.co.uk
Date: 15 Dec 98 - 02:28 PM

Hi, it's Christmas again and we'd thought we'd do the parody of Gaudete. Anyone got the words for Awayday? Many thanks, JC

Copied from a thread with a generic "lyrics wanted" title" -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: BSeed
Date: 25 Aug 98 - 02:50 AM

John in Brisbane:

I learned it as iligitimati non carborundam, but certainly not in Latin class.

--seed


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Aug 98 - 02:15 PM

Absolvo te, Martin..

I think you're grammatically correct, Pete, but "Christus natus est" doesn't fit the meter. Let's chalk that one up to "poetic license." Medieval and ecclesiastical Latin took a lot of license, and "Gaudete" was written so late in the medieval-ecclesiastical period that it was far removed from the grammar of Cicero. You'll find much better grammar in 20th-century Latin, such as that used during the Second Vatican Council - but the meter of medieval and ecclesiastical Latin is much more suitable for music.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 24 Aug 98 - 01:29 PM

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Pete M
Date: 23 Aug 98 - 11:31 PM

Joe, if there's one thing I'm not it's a latin scholar, and I wouldn't presume to question the Oxford, but if you are after the "original", shouldn't it be "Christus natus est"? I know it doesn't fit the tune so well, but I wonder how much a 16th century Finnish clerical student would change latin grammar in a song for use in church where this would be noticed and commented on. Perhaps the structure of Finnish had some influence? Any ideas?

Pete M


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Subject: RE: Gaudete - Steeleye Span
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Aug 98 - 06:58 PM

Oh, ye of little faith, Martin!


First Conjugation, Regular
Active Voice
Indicative Mood
Imperfect Tense
First Person
Plural
of opto, optare: to choose, select; to wish for, desire

Satisfied?


I admit that there were other parts that I was not 100% sure on, but I think I've got it pretty darn close. I studied Latin for 6 years, and this is the first time in 30 years that I've actually been able to make practical use of it.
-Joe Offer-


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