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Where is Spancil Hill?

DigiTrad:
SPANCIL HILL


Related threads:
(DTStudy) DTStudy: Spancil Hill (64)
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New Spancil Hill (19)
Spansel Hill (14)
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Tune Add: Spancil Hill (4)
Lyr Add: Filkin' around Spancil Hill (1)
Spancil Hill (4) (closed)
No more Spancil Hill? (14)
Spancil Hill Horse Fair Postponed - 2001 (4)
DT & original Spancil Hill (5)


GUEST,Phil d'Conch 23 Jun 18 - 05:32 AM
GUEST,Frank McGrath 22 Jun 18 - 10:35 PM
GUEST,Desi C 07 Sep 15 - 07:33 PM
GUEST,MartinRyan lost in Glasgow... 07 Sep 15 - 04:58 PM
GUEST 07 Sep 15 - 12:59 PM
GUEST,Benjie Hallihan 11 Jun 15 - 02:24 PM
GUEST,John Condon 28 Apr 15 - 09:54 AM
GUEST,Dan Diver of Canada 16 Apr 15 - 06:43 PM
GUEST,Dan Diver of Canada 16 Apr 15 - 06:21 PM
MartinRyan 09 Oct 14 - 11:25 AM
GUEST,George Henderson 20 Apr 14 - 04:44 PM
Jim Carroll 19 Apr 14 - 03:58 AM
GUEST,George Henderson 18 Apr 14 - 11:54 PM
The Sandman 18 Apr 14 - 05:09 PM
Jim Carroll 18 Apr 14 - 08:36 AM
ChanteyLass 14 Dec 12 - 08:53 PM
GUEST,Peadar (formerly) of Portsmouth 14 Dec 12 - 11:57 AM
GUEST 21 Apr 12 - 01:30 AM
GUEST,shannon 17 Mar 12 - 07:42 PM
GUEST,John Condon 25 Jul 11 - 08:51 AM
GUEST,Desi C 02 Mar 11 - 08:41 AM
harmonic miner 02 Mar 11 - 05:52 AM
harmonic miner 02 Mar 11 - 05:37 AM
Brakn 02 Mar 11 - 03:08 AM
GUEST,Susanna in California 02 Mar 11 - 01:44 AM
MartinRyan 21 Feb 11 - 09:44 AM
GUEST,Sigve R. Leland 21 Feb 11 - 09:09 AM
ollaimh 18 Dec 10 - 02:45 PM
GUEST,Dympna 18 Dec 10 - 01:38 AM
GUEST,John Condon 12 Nov 10 - 07:20 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Nov 10 - 05:23 AM
GUEST,George Henderson 09 Nov 10 - 04:26 AM
GUEST,^&* 09 Nov 10 - 03:47 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Nov 10 - 03:36 AM
GUEST,John Breslin 08 Nov 10 - 05:59 PM
GUEST,John Condon 15 Oct 10 - 07:18 AM
GUEST,George Henderson 14 Sep 10 - 06:28 AM
GeoffLawes 14 Sep 10 - 06:23 AM
GUEST,A Spancel 14 Sep 10 - 03:09 AM
GUEST,Guest - Aidan 04 Sep 10 - 10:43 AM
Green Man 05 Aug 10 - 10:35 AM
GUEST,George Henderson 05 Aug 10 - 09:38 AM
michaelr 07 Jul 10 - 10:39 PM
GUEST,Guest John 07 Jul 10 - 08:01 PM
GUEST,George Henderson 07 Jul 10 - 10:15 AM
GUEST,Guest , John 07 Jul 10 - 07:01 AM
GUEST,George Henderson 23 Jun 10 - 03:18 AM
GUEST,Billsheen 23 Jun 10 - 02:55 AM
GUEST,Billsheen 22 Jun 10 - 04:42 PM
Alice 22 Jun 10 - 02:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 23 Jun 18 - 05:32 AM

There used to be a Clare Co.gov site that had most of the Considine family detail but I can't find it now. Working from crappy older discography and genealogy notes:

Nephew: John Considine (1875-1956)(age 80-81,) Kilraghtis Burial Ground, Ennis, County Clare, Ireland.

It came to John from his mother, Catherine “Kate” O'Connell Considine, who had kept it for him since his father, Patrick Considine, died when John was just an infant. They had never left the old country.

Patrick Considine (1846 or 1850-1876,) also in Kilraghtis, was the son of Peter and Mary R. Considine and brother of Michael Considine, born 11th August 1850, Castletown, just south of “Spancel Hill.”

There was some confusion about “Moira Keane” and John's wife “Mary K.” Considine being one and the same person that brought them all together but... dunno now. Mary K. passed in 1960.

You can find everyone but the poet on your favorite graveyard search engine today but not a stitch of folk history to go with. Afaik, Michael Considine's final dates & resting place are still unknown.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Frank McGrath
Date: 22 Jun 18 - 10:35 PM

And twenty years passes so quickly.

http://leftbucket.com/it-being-on-the-twenty-third-of-june-spancilhill-is-a-true-and-tragic-story/

https://youtu.be/UAQNiLnHAUY

I still love "Spancilhill"


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 07 Sep 15 - 07:33 PM

It isn't there, but then I am an Atheist


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,MartinRyan lost in Glasgow...
Date: 07 Sep 15 - 04:58 PM

Which version? All three in common circulation are definitelt Irish in origin - and all derive from the original poem.

Beir bua.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 15 - 12:59 PM

There are so many reasons why that version you say is original, could never have been written by an irish person........very very clearly an interpretation by someone who may love Ireland but doesn't understand the nuances of our culture


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Benjie Hallihan
Date: 11 Jun 15 - 02:24 PM

Many thanks for the story behind the song. It really brings it to life and must be one of many heart-breaking stories of lovers parted by poverty with dreams of getting back together.... i'll light a candle tonight for Mick and Matt the Rangers Daughter.... maybe in a new Spancil Hill tonight he really bends to kiss her and she's there.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,John Condon
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 09:54 AM

Robbie's First Friday singing session is on Friday next, May 1st.

First song 9.45pm.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Dan Diver of Canada
Date: 16 Apr 15 - 06:43 PM

Sorry, you probably guessed but that couple we met was from Northern Ireland. Kind of important to the story. Thanks.

Dan


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Dan Diver of Canada
Date: 16 Apr 15 - 06:21 PM

Hi all, My name is Dan Diver and I live in Canada. My dad was born in Belfast but unfortunately never made it back before passing. While I was on vacating this month I met a fantastic couple John and Marcella MacDonald in Cuba on their honeymoon. My fiancee (whose relatives are also from Ireland)and I told them of our plans to travel to Ireland for our honeymoon in the near future and we asked about songs to sing while in the pubs. The first one they told us about was "Spancilhill". After searching I was brought to this site and found the original lyrics. It is a beautiful song. I've taken the time to record it and tried to keep as close to the original lyrics as possible without making the song too long. The link below will bring you to it. I hope I do it justice. Thanks

Dan

https://soundcloud.com/danwhalen/spancilhill


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 09 Oct 14 - 11:25 AM

The Goilin Song Project resource at the Irish Traditonal Music Archive, now has a live recording of Robbie singing Spancil Hill made in the early '90's.

Click here

Regards


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,George Henderson
Date: 20 Apr 14 - 04:44 PM

Sounds like good work Jim.

Just re read my post. Please note Pat Liddy (not Kiddy). My tablet keeps trying to correct my spelling and did not recognize Liddy.

Mick Scanlan has just launched his book of his own songs which are about local events, some humorous and a few with more serious overtones. Meanderings of an idle mind.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Apr 14 - 03:58 AM

Thanks George.
All these songs come alive when you start following them up.
I've just annotated nearly 500 songs in preparation for making them available on the Clare County Library web-site - in some cases, the problem has been that there is far too much information on many of them to use - songs like Spancil Hill are a good example of such.
One of the neglected traditions has been local songs that have been made by local people to comment on local events and features.
I've managed to pin-point nearly 100 songs made in this area of West Clare that haven't passed into the national repertoire- we're hoping that a local-history group will agree to co-operate in publishing them as a fund-raiser for their activities.
Spancil Hill is an example of one of the exceptions that has slipped te net and become more widely known.
Best
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,George Henderson
Date: 18 Apr 14 - 11:54 PM

Jim,
You should read all the related threads on this site. Frnk McGrath did a huge amount of research on this song and located the original author's home, Mac the Ranger's home, They could not identify the well nor the related apple tree. Frank was fairly certain of the location of Michael's grave in the States but did not visit.

Pat Kiddy, Spancil Hill resident, has all of the details. Also Robbie's widow, Maura, ha full details.

Robbie's First Friday, the singing session he set up, is still going. Organizer is John Condone. I go down to it most months from Bray. Spacil Hill is sung at the end of the session as Robbie sang it, in his memory. You should pay a visit.

Robbie was a great friend so sadly missed.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 14 - 05:09 PM

anyone know who wrote welcoming paddy home?.
jim,in all the versions i have heard she is normally referred to as mac the rangers daughter not matt, which makes sense as well.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 14 - 08:36 AM

Don't know whether any of this was mentioned in the aforementioned article, but I've just written a note to a version of the song which will be put up on Clare County Library website in the next few months, along with another 400-odd songs we've recorded in Clare over the last 40 years.
The Library staff are making wonderful job of the song-site - looking forward to it being finished.
Jim Carroll

Spancil Hill Michael 'Straighty' Flanagan
Note to Maureen – the song documented under this title in the Roud Index is in fact a version of 'Sullivan John', not 'Spancil Hill' which doesn't have a Roud number.

The composer of this song was Michael Considine from Spancilhill, who was born around 1850 and emigrated to the USA at around 1870. Considine went with the intention of bringing his sweetheart over and for them to be married when he had made enough money for the passage. She was Mary MacNamara, known as 'Matt the ranger's daughter'; the ranger's house was within sight from the Considine home as was the tailor Quigley's, mentioned in the song.
At the age of 23, he began to suffer ill health, and after some time, realising he hadn't long to live, he wrote the poem Spancilhill, to be sent home in remembrance of his love, It was kept safe by his six-year old nephew, John Considine.
It is said that Michael Considine died sometime in 1873 and may have been buried in the Spancilhill graveyard, though these dates are disputed, not least because Mary MacNamara (usually referred to as "Matt, the Ranger's daughter, but in Straighty's version, "Nell, the farmer's daughter), who is said to have remained faithful to his memory and never married, would only have been 8 years old when Michael died.
The story goes that, in the late 1930s or early '40s, Robbie McMahon announced he was going to sing Spancilhill, when the woman of the house, Moira Keane, a relative of Michael Considine, handed Robbie McMahon the original text of the song saying "If ye are going to sing that song ye might as well sing it right." This text was confirmed some time later, around 1953, at another session, when Robbie was asked to sing it and a local, man first resisted him, saying: "Don't sing that song." When asked why not, the old man replied "because ye don't know it". Robbie sang the song anyway using the version given to him by Moira Keane. As he got into the song, he noticed the old man paying more attention, fiddling with his cap and looking a little flustered. When the song was finished the old man asked: "Where did you get that song?" McMahon told him and the old man seemed both perturbed and pleased at the same time. The old man was John Considine, the nephew of the songs' composer. John was 76 at that time and had kept his uncle's song safe for 70 years. He gave his approval to Robbie's performance after hearing that he had sung the original version.
'Straighty's' air is different to the one usually associated with the song, suggesting that he learned it from print rather than from another singer; he uses the same one for several of his songs.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 14 Dec 12 - 08:53 PM

Yes, that is indeed sad news.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Peadar (formerly) of Portsmouth
Date: 14 Dec 12 - 11:57 AM

Sad news on the passing yesterday of Robbie McMahon, who kept and protected this treasure of a song. May Michael Considine greet him at the gate.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 01:30 AM

fantastic forum, my father sang original song but died in '98 RIP wish I had asked him where he had learned it from as the popular versions were much shorter, he sang in that sweet connemara brouge with whispering "S's" if that makes sense. Shed a tear each time I hear Spancil hill, sometimes on the inside but of late I don't care who sees a grown man cry. I write from Melbourne city many miles ,,,,,,,,,


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,shannon
Date: 17 Mar 12 - 07:42 PM

I am intrigued by these posts, as I have always been intrigued to the lyrics of this song. The only records I have been able to find of my Irish ancestors show that their surname was Quigley and that they resided in "Clooney Parish".....


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,John Condon
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 08:51 AM

Are you planning on attending the July singing session on Friday, 5th July, George?


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 08:41 AM

I think several have already given the Answer, it's in County Clare on the road between Ennis & Tulla


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: harmonic miner
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 05:52 AM

Well, close! in the song "it was on the 23rd of June, the day before the fair" so the fair is on the 24th I assume.

Where can we get the difintive lyrics, as written by Mr Considne?

It is typical of 'Traditional Irish Ballads' though, as it is attributed to a known author (whereas Tradtional normally means no known author), and it was written outside of Ireland


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: harmonic miner
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 05:37 AM

We were playing this song once in a pub (we sing it almost every week) and a local wag, who was not making much sense, said 'Oh yes, it's tomomorrow'. By a strange coincidence, he was right. I looked at my watch and indeed it was the 22nd of June.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: Brakn
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 03:08 AM

If you take a look at the 1901 Census you will find spinster Mary MacNamara(36), Patrick Quigley(Tailor) and others.

Look at 1901 Census of Clare, District Electoral Division: Spancelhill   Townland: Muckinish.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Susanna in California
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 01:44 AM

Does anyone have any idea what part of California? If we could pin down the dates, it would be a good idea to look at the census records from here if they are available. Was he buried in California? Wonder if the immigration attorney with the same name in Sacramento is any relation? His family is from the Ennis area or so I'm told.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 09:44 AM

GUESTSigve

My recollection is that it is/was possible to trace the names through the online parish records - which will give better date info than the one-off census. Not sure if they're still online - I'll check whan I have a chance.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Sigve R. Leland
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 09:09 AM

This has already been pointed out in a comment on the wikipedia article, but it does not seem to have been mentioned here yet, so I will.

In short, the story as presented here does not add up. Looking at the 1901 Census of Ireland, there is a Mary MacNamara living in Spancilhill who by her given age must have been born in 1865. There is also a John Considine (well, four of them, actually, but this seems to be the only real candidate), son of Kate Considine who by his given age must have been born in 1875 or 1876. Assuming these are the right people, which seems likely, the claim that Michael Considine was born in 1850 and died in 1873 makes no sense. Mary would have been only 5 when Michael left (when he was supposedly 20) and John would not even have been born when Michael died.

Now, I noticed that when Mr. McGrath originally posted the full lyrics of the song, Michael Considine's year of birth was given as 1859, although this was later corrected to 1850. If 1859 should turn out to be the real year of birth, however, the other information would seem to add up. Assuming Michael still left for the US at age 20 and died at age 23, Mary would only have been 5 years younger, which gives an age of about 15 when Michael left and John would in fact be six years old when he received the poem, rather than being not yet even conceived.

Does this make any sense, or is there some other explanation I've missed?


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: ollaimh
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 02:45 PM

reading several versions of the lyrics i wonder if "the scartborough settlers lament " was based on spancil hill?

i was recently in skrene ireland near navan. so does any one know where the verdant braes of skrene are? near navan or as i thought on the west coast of scotland?


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Dympna
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 01:38 AM

Off to the film 'Last Night as I lay dreaming' tonight in Melbourne, Australia!


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,John Condon
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:20 PM

Facebook Page is there. Click on pages and search for Duggan's Pub Singers Club.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 05:23 AM

GUEST,^&*
Thanks, I found it just after I posted.
I scanned it down and posted it - but it seems not to have survived the journey
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,George Henderson
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 04:26 AM

Yes John, it surely was yet another great night in Duggans. And Micheal is so accomodating is he not.

Of course Robbie was in great voice yet again. Cannot make it in December due to a prior engagement and The January night is New Years day so I don't expect to make that. Could well have visitors in February as well. All very unfortunate.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,^&*
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 03:47 AM

That was "The Spancelhill Affray". It's in O'Cillin's "Ballads of Co. Clare" book, which you may have - or at least have ready access to! If not, I'll post a set of words in a new thread when I get a chance and put a link here. I don't think we've posted it before.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 03:36 AM

Just attended our local (West Clare) Singing Weekend just gone and heard an excellent song, (I think, contemporary to the event - probably early 20th century) sung by John Lyons, about a fight at the Fair at Spancil Hill.
Wonder if anybody knows it and has a set of the words - would appreciate.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,John Breslin
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 05:59 PM

Enjoyed another great night in Duggans Pub Spancilhill at Robbie Mc Mahons First Friday.
Is the page on facebook up and running yet? Cant seem to find it


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,John Condon
Date: 15 Oct 10 - 07:18 AM

Duggans Bar Singer's Club now has its own Facebook Page. Access it for info on upcoming first Fridays. Roll on 5th November. Robbie now has to be addressed as Squire Robbie after his civic reception in Ennis last Monday.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,George Henderson
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 06:28 AM

Robbie is a guest at the Frank Harte festival which will be held from 24th to 26th September 2010 in the Teachers Club, Dublin.

and yes, he is a national treasure.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 06:23 AM

Christy Moore & Shane MacGowan sing Spancil Hill on YOU TUBE


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,A Spancel
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 03:09 AM

In the North, (County Down) a spancel, used to hobble animals, is called a "langel" (sp?) as in "I'll langel ye !" meaning, I'm gonna stop you or slow you down, usually directed at a hyperactive child!


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Guest - Aidan
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 10:43 AM

What a night!!! Robbie's Singers Club last night was absolutely fantastic! Never at it before, but - Wow - what a night! Over 50 songs/recitations performed. Aside from the man himself who delivers pure gold every time he sings, very good performances from Richard, Bernie, Paidi, John Power, Paddy Commane - Hilarious. George and his friend John. But hairs on my neck rose when another John sang The Croppy Boy.

Can only use the names they were called by to sing so I am afraid I don't know lots of full names. But would love to hear that John again or find out has he recorded.

Robbie is a national treasure!!


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: Green Man
Date: 05 Aug 10 - 10:35 AM

Spancel is a rope used to hobble animals to stop them wandering.

I wonder why I can't move my legs.. ;)


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,George Henderson
Date: 05 Aug 10 - 09:38 AM

Robbie's night on again tomorrow night.(Friday 6th) See you all there.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 10:39 PM

This year's Frank Harte Festival will take place Friday 24th to Sunday 26th of September 2010, and will be at the Teacher's Club, Parnell Square, Dublin, Ireland. (From here.)


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Guest John
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 08:01 PM

Friend of mine was there, Said good mixture of singers with a few very good singers. Robbie is a gem!! When is the Frank Harte festival. Might try to make it.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,George Henderson
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 10:15 AM

Certainly did John. And we all got at least 2 songs in with Robbie singing 4.

It was a fab night.

Long may it continue.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Guest , John
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 07:01 AM

I hear you brought the whole wagon trail wit you to the Singer's Club George. 27 different performers on the night!! Amazing. When is that Frank Harte featival and where??


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,George Henderson
Date: 23 Jun 10 - 03:18 AM

I expect to meet Robbie on 2nd July (First friday). And he is a guest at the Frank Harte festival in Dublin organised by Goilin, the Dublin singers club.

I was unable to make it to Spancil Hill last night. Hope to get a report on the session later this week.

Robbie's tape has now been converted to CD format. Anybody who wants a copy should write to Robbie McMahon, Spancil Hill, Co Clare, Ireland.


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Billsheen
Date: 23 Jun 10 - 02:55 AM

The fair takes place today, June 23rd.

http://www.spancilhillfair.com/


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: GUEST,Billsheen
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 04:42 PM

Of Spancil Hill P W Joyce says in his IRISH NAMES OF PLACES (Dublin,1875) "In the parish of Clooney in Clare is the village of Spancelhill, well known for its fairs. The correct Irish name is Cnoc-fuarchoilli [Knock-foorkilla], the hill of the cold wood,for so the Four Masters call it, when recording a battle fought there in 1559, between the rival earls of Ormonde and Desmond. In the colloquial language however, the f is aspirated and omitted, which reduces it to Cnoc-urchaill [Knockoorkill]; and as urchall or aurchomhal is a spancel,
the name came to be erroneously translated Spancelhill instead of Coldwoodhill."

"spancel n., a hobble often made of hay-rope or old clothing.
Kiely- A BALL OF MALT AND MADAME BUTTERFLY, 183; 'The wife has him tethered and spancelled in the haggard.'"
A DICTIONARY OF HIBERNO-ENGLISH, Terence Patrick Dolan(Dublin 1998).


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Subject: RE: Where is Spancil Hill?
From: Alice
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 02:59 PM

It warms my heart to see my best Mudcat experience refreshed. I still have the cassette tape from Robbie singing Spancil Hill.



Alice


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