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BS: Alternative health treatments

Celtic Soul 23 Mar 02 - 01:19 PM
catspaw49 23 Mar 02 - 01:56 PM
Celtic Soul 23 Mar 02 - 03:37 PM
catspaw49 23 Mar 02 - 04:02 PM
Bobert 23 Mar 02 - 04:32 PM
Amos 23 Mar 02 - 04:54 PM
Mary in Kentucky 23 Mar 02 - 05:34 PM
Mary in Kentucky 23 Mar 02 - 05:36 PM
catspaw49 23 Mar 02 - 05:56 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 23 Mar 02 - 06:03 PM
Mary in Kentucky 23 Mar 02 - 06:05 PM
catspaw49 23 Mar 02 - 06:12 PM
Amos 23 Mar 02 - 07:07 PM
Mary in Kentucky 23 Mar 02 - 07:32 PM
katlaughing 23 Mar 02 - 08:18 PM
Mudlark 23 Mar 02 - 08:19 PM
CarolC 23 Mar 02 - 08:41 PM
Art Thieme 23 Mar 02 - 11:00 PM
CarolC 23 Mar 02 - 11:24 PM
CarolC 24 Mar 02 - 12:21 AM
Hrothgar 24 Mar 02 - 03:37 AM
GUEST,Paddy Joe. 24 Mar 02 - 07:06 AM
Amos 24 Mar 02 - 09:58 AM
Art Thieme 24 Mar 02 - 11:01 AM
Mary in Kentucky 24 Mar 02 - 11:18 AM
Celtic Soul 24 Mar 02 - 05:11 PM
Hawker 24 Mar 02 - 06:37 PM
GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com 24 Mar 02 - 07:12 PM
Wolfgang 25 Mar 02 - 04:48 AM
katlaughing 25 Mar 02 - 11:26 AM
CarolC 25 Mar 02 - 01:12 PM
CarolC 25 Mar 02 - 01:53 PM
Mary in Kentucky 25 Mar 02 - 02:30 PM
Mary in Kentucky 25 Mar 02 - 02:39 PM
CarolC 25 Mar 02 - 02:39 PM
CarolC 25 Mar 02 - 02:43 PM
Bearheart 25 Mar 02 - 02:47 PM
Kim C 25 Mar 02 - 02:52 PM
Amos 25 Mar 02 - 03:30 PM
CarolC 25 Mar 02 - 03:49 PM
Mary in Kentucky 25 Mar 02 - 04:16 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 26 Mar 02 - 12:23 AM
Wolfgang 26 Mar 02 - 06:12 AM
Jeri 26 Mar 02 - 10:01 AM
katlaughing 26 Mar 02 - 12:05 PM
Mary in Kentucky 26 Mar 02 - 02:27 PM
GUEST,DR 30 Mar 02 - 03:01 AM
okthen 30 Mar 02 - 04:35 AM
GUEST 31 Mar 02 - 02:29 AM
GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com 31 Mar 02 - 01:43 PM
GUEST,Guest/Ebbie 31 Mar 02 - 07:31 PM
GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com 31 Mar 02 - 08:07 PM
GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com 31 Mar 02 - 08:18 PM
GUEST 05 Apr 02 - 11:21 PM
Amos 05 Apr 02 - 11:50 PM
53 05 Apr 02 - 11:56 PM
Amos 06 Apr 02 - 01:32 AM
Bert 06 Apr 02 - 02:22 AM
Mary in Kentucky 06 Apr 02 - 09:28 AM
catspaw49 06 Apr 02 - 10:24 AM
Amos 06 Apr 02 - 10:45 AM
katlaughing 06 Apr 02 - 12:03 PM
Rustic Rebel 06 Apr 02 - 02:07 PM
GUEST 07 Apr 02 - 01:23 PM
GUEST,Clementis 08 Apr 02 - 06:48 AM
GUEST 09 Apr 02 - 12:13 AM
GUEST 10 Apr 02 - 12:00 AM
GUEST 10 Apr 02 - 07:53 PM
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Subject: Alternative health treatments
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 01:19 PM

We've gone round a bit over the time I have been here, and I have seen some *marvelous* information here crop up from time to time. I would be grateful to all and sundry if they could dupicate their advice here so I can cut and paste it and have it all in the same place.

Here are my own offerings:

PMS: extract of Chastetree berry.

Chronic Fatigue: ENADA, CoQ10, taking general vitamin supplements daily, moderate exercise, and "Sr. Moment". The latter of these has done *wonders* in bringing back my mental abilities. I wouldn't be seen in public taking the stuff, but it works none the less.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 01:56 PM

Interesting subject.

I am probably classified as a fence straddler here. Over the years I have seen things work that made little or no sense and seemingly should never have worked at all. On the other hand, I have seen people stick with alternative treatments without consulting traditional medical doctors long past the time they needed to and have in several instances reached a stage where their condition was now too severe to be cured or aided by any means.

I'm neither condemning or condoning medical solutions or alternative therapies, but I am certainly not endorsing anyone jump into either without a full diagnosis and knowledge of what their situation is. As an additoin to traditional care, alternative therapy may be an asset but in other cases, it is simply wishful thinking. Aine recently underwent a surgery for removal of disc cushion material which had to be done to alleviate the pain caused by a herniated disc. While some back problems can respond favorably to chiropractic or other treatments, a herniated disc will not.....period. If that diagnosis can be confirmed through CAT or MRI testing and if the disc material is pressing on a nerve, then NO alternative will work.

Sister Connie is a big believer in natural and holistic treatments but also not one to underplay the role of modern medicine. She works a lot with her traditional docs in telling them things she has read and investigated including diet and herbal treatments for a range of problems and has done quite well with them in putting together a treatment program that has worked for her in several chronic conditions she has. Importantly though, the chronic conditions have a confirmed medical diagnosis.

I see too many people willing to guess at what may "probably" be happening and not really knowing what IS happening. Yeah, the medical profession is full of below average doctors and others, but it is also full of excellent and highly trained professionals and the key is finding them.

Very few seemingly healthy American males will want to admit that something may be wrong with them and especially something wrong with their heart. For two years prior to my having a quad by-pass I undoubtedly suffered a series of mild heart attacks which I "wrote off" as heartburn and stomach problems.   I tried a number of things which did relieve many of the symptoms for awhile and yet I could not stop the "attacks" all the time. Had they been any more severe or my heart not as strong as it was in terms of the muscle itself, I would have been dead. As it was, it was a near thing and I did additional damage to my heart in the process, some of it irreversible. The need for a new mitral valve was a direct result of that insanity. Now my heart is quite strong with the aid of a few new parts and the docs are amazed that things look so good...and quite happy with the outcome too...as am I. But had I gone in and discussed this with my doctor and gone through the testing years before, I would have had far fewer problems in the long run.

Investigate all possibilities. Never rely on an alternative treatment especially when you really don't know what you're dealing with. Make use of all the resources at your disposal including the technology and advances made medicine.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 03:37 PM

Spaw says: "Investigate all possibilities. Never rely on an alternative treatment especially when you really don't know what you're dealing with. Make use of all the resources at your disposal including the technology and advances made medicine".

Sage advice. I will say, however, that (statistically speaking) women do tend moreso to seek medical advice when there is a problem, and as a female I have written from several presumptions therein. In issues such as Chronic Fatigue and PMS, my experience has been that the medical community as a whole has little to offer. Certainly, I would agree that one should look to more traditional medicine for diagnoses, but if you can't get any satisfaction there (and I personally have tried for more than 15 years with regards to Chronic Fatigue), then why not look into other things? I would also agree that, looking means doing the research to find out if a thing may do more harm than good.

Still, I'd love to hear of folks home remedies...I am always interested in hearing what has worked for others.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 04:02 PM

I put this on another thread, but I guess it fits here too. You really have to be careful with the alternatives as they might work but maybe not in the way intended. Paw tried one with the help of Cletus and the Reg Boys and, well.............here.....You can judge for yourself...............

Paw's flattulence when combined with his passion for 'shine and hot wings used to be a big problem for him whenever his roids would flare up....so to speak...and it got to the point that little rubber donut pillows and Preparation H just weren't doing the job anymore. Clete's 6th wife was into all the weird and wacky cures so Cletus was always coming to Paw with his suggestions that he'd heard from her. When Cletus told Paw about acupuncture, he disappeared for about two weeks and I'll be damned if anyone could find him.

The Reg Boys too had their share of wacky cures for everything from the Great White North of Canada, but most of them involved bear grease and other vile and foamy liquids. Then it happened. The whole lot of them were watching my TV down in the den one night and had been subjected to at least nine hours of infomercials while they slugged down Iron City. I had learned from experience to unplug the phone and hide my credit cards on these nights which only took place when Karen was gone. I'm still paying for that quonset hut in the Aleutian Islands and I have the complete collection of Pan Flute Favorites so I have learned, albeit slowly. I think the one that finally got me was the "Great Michigan Getaway Weekend" which they bought and gave to Karen and I for an anniversary present. It was a month before I found out that they had billed it to my Visa and when we went for "rest and relaxation" in beautiful Michigan, it turned out to be clapped out motel run by a Pakistani in downtown Flint, just across from a closed GM factory.

I guess it was about 5:30 AM when Cletus woke me up and said they had the cure for Paw's hemorrhoids. This was more than I wanted or needed to know at 5:30 so after verifying that it wouldn't cost me anything, I said have at it and went back to sleep. When I woke up about 7 I had one of those vague feelings of dread. You know what I mean? Nothing was wrong that I could think of and yet I just felt the world was going to come after me that day. It turned out to be Old Man Rafferty instead....but I'll come to that.

The "boys" arrived back at my place about noon having already left when I woke at 7. They were lugging some huge electric motors into my garage and looking about for tools when I walked in and asked what the hell was going on. Cletus then launched into their "cure" and the reasoning behind it. It seems they had watched an infomercial about the "healing power of magnetism" and saw immediately that this was the way to fix Paw's 'roids. Slowly it all began to come together for me and I began to wonder how in the hell these guys could even remember how to breathe!

In any case, they'd picked up the motors from out back of Bernie's Electrical Supply and were now going to remove the large magnets inside. They idea was to cut a slit in Paw's rubber donut, insert the magnets, and then duct tape the thing back together. I noticed that Buford had an old jockstrap (with cup) that they evidently were going to use to strap the magnets to Paw's ass, again using liberal amounts of duct tape. Listening to Cletus explain all of this and their newfound theory made me begin to question my own existence, as though I really didn't exist in the world I had come to know, but was simply a bit player in a leftover Rod Serling story.

Things started going downhill pretty quickly as the magnets were removed and now were flying across my garage, affixing themselves to various steel things....like my van, my lawnmower, my golf clubs, and a little steel reinforced concrete rabbit that someone had once given us as a joke. I figured that I was going to be better off if they'd finish up somewhere else so I suggested they take all the stuff and head for the pleasant little roadside picnic area on the edge of the village where they could finish rigging Paw up and with any luck, I'd never know anything more about it. After removing the magnets, scratching the hell out of my van, breaking off the head of a 5 iron and the left ear of the rabbit, they left. The picnic area was only about a half mile off, just a bit down Rt.664 and I told them to let me know how it all worked out.

Curiosity is a terrible thing sometimes and about an hour later I grabbed my Weimaraner and his leash and set out as though I were just walking the dog. As I turned on 664 I saw the Boys all walking towards me from the little picnic grove. Paw's ass seemed to be a bit large and he was walking funny, but from a distance I could tell they must have done a good job circling his ass in magnets because outside of a slight limp and a big bulge at the rear of his bibs, Paw looked pretty normal. Then it happened. Trailing the others, Paw walked past Old Man Rafferty's mailbox, a new heavy duty steel one to foil the kids with cars and bats. He first slowed, stopped, then flew backwards and before you could say "dumbfuck" he was hanging from his ass on the mailbox. Ol' Man Rafferty was washing his aging Electra deuce and a quarter and looked up to see what was happening. By that time, Cletus, Buford, and the Reg Boys all were tugging on either Paw or Rafferty's mailbox and though they got him off the mailbox was smashed in and the pole was a goner.

Well I tell you, Rafferty came flying down the drive, gravel spitting up from his shoes, and swearing a blue streak. Paw was laying about 10 foot up the drive where he'd landed after the force of being ripped from the mailbox sent him sailing through the air. Rafferty bent over him and started yelling in his face and Paw was trying to stand up but being weighed down by the Magnetic Ass-Healing Ring. I got up there and tried to get Rafferty to calm down some as the others stood around looking bewildered. Rafferty started blaming me for allowing such "dumbass shitkickers" to stay here and how I should let them rot somewhere else. Before he could say another word, things continued to deteriorate. Paw had gotten to his feet about 15 feet from the Buick and there was a loud clanging thump as one of the hubcaps flew off and affixed itself to Paw's rump. Rafferty grabbed the hubcap and started pulling for all he was worth swinging Paw round and round in a circle. The hubcap folded and broke loose and Paw landed by the side of the road while Rafferty began to rage about his rump-sprung hubcap and twisted mailbox. I got out my checkbook and with a stern look to Cletus asked how much this would cost to keep from calling the police. The sight of my checkbook calmed Rafferty down and my Weimaraner had gone over to the side of the road and was licking Paw's face. Rafferty calculated a sum which I figured was enough to buy a new set of tires and an exhaust system for the Buick and build a brick mailbox, while forcing me nearer to bankruptcy.

Cletus and the rest were circled around me as I handed Rafferty the check and when I turned to go, I saw Paw had gotten to his feet again and was bent over stroking Jaeger's head. The dog has always had a soft spot for Paw and when I whistled for him he reluctantly came back up the drive. Bending over to pick up his leash, I heard Cletus say, "Aw Sheeitt!" Right then I couldn't imagine how things could get worse, but I looked up just in time to see Paw lifted from his feet and his ass attach to the exhaust stack of a passing Peterbilt. I watched as the truck roared off, Paw flailing around and in a blind spot where the driver couldn't see him, and the dumbass Reg boys waving "bye-bye" as the Pete rounded a curve down by the Hopewell place.

We found Paw at the truckstop at Rt.37 and I-70 where the driver had stopped for fuel. When we arrived, the Magnetic Ass-Healing Ring was nowhere to be seen and Paw was sitting on a bag of ice trying to cool the burns from riding 27 miles on an exhaust stack. But I tell you what.....Perhaps it was the scar tissue from the burns that did it, but Paw hasn't had trouble with 'roids since then. Maybe there is something to the power of magnetism.....................


Spaw



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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 04:32 PM

Well, Spawzer, that one brings new meanin' to "take an asburn and go to bed."


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Amos
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 04:54 PM

If you're interested in the vital intersection between empirical, allopathic (disease-attacking) medicine, such as we are used to in medical clinics, and alternative therapies that are candidates fopr heursitic validation, the peer-reviewed journal "Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine" might be of interest. They recently held a major conference here in San Diego whci BBW helped organize and orchestrate.

Their journal balances explorations of alternative approaches with the discipline of professional peer-reviews and metric methods. It can be found at this site.

Regards,

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 05:34 PM

Amos, I've been meaning to ask you...what in the **** does BBW mean? Surely not Big, Beautiful, Wife...


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 05:36 PM

forgot the ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 05:56 PM

LOL..........I found out that on the "porn sites" it means "Big Beautiful Women!" (Enter BBW on Google and be prepared!!)..............Somehow I don't think that's it either though...............

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 06:03 PM

Catspaw, you probably are aware of this information, but the Mayo Clinic has a good, brief article on herniated discs on their website now. (Don't know if you have the problem, but since you mentioned it). Your tale of Cletus and Rafferty I have preserved somewhere in my computer (like any filing cabinet, I don't remember where) and is worth repeating. In the late 19th C. and early 20th, electric-magnetic gadgets were sold to the gullible; quite a number of makes. I have been looking for one to give my physician daughter-in-law, but they are in demand by collectors of old medical gadgets and tools.
The Mayo Clinic site is: Mayo Lots of good advice there.
It is really sad to hear about people putting their trust in snake oil peddlers and over-the-border charlatans when something serious is wrong. Luckily, most who use things like copper or magnetic bracelets, unproven herbal remedies and "certified organic foods" (reminds me of the store here that advertised "genuine furniture") don't really need serious treatment.
Faculties at major medical research institutions DO investigate all likely leads, and when something is tested and shown to be safe and effective, it is added to list of useful nostrums.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 06:05 PM

Now Spaw, you don't have to go to the porn sites for that. There is a line of clothing for Big Beautiful Women. It's larger-sized clothing modeled by knock-down, gorgeous women!


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 06:12 PM

Thanks Dicho......Aine just had one repaired and I posted a lot on that thread and I think I linked the Mayo site there too! I had a laminectomy to repair mine about 13 years ago, removing material at L4-L5 and L5-S1. I recovered quite quickly and haven't had a lick of trouble since!

Glad you enjoyed the story. (:<))

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Amos
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 07:07 PM

Mary,

it stands for my own Best-Beloved Wife. I adopted the acronym after the model set by the Gaelic Goddess who refers to her husband as DH (for Dear Hubby).

Best regards,

Amos

Spaw -- good luck with your pornsites, man!! I hope its good fer ya!!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 07:32 PM

That's sweet. Hubby call me "the bride." He got it from an 80 something year old gentleman years ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 08:18 PM

Celtic Soul, I have used a mixed-bag for years, for various things, much as Spaw describes Sister Connie has done, BUT I would urge folks to look into alternatives at the same time as they are getting info from allopathic practitioners, too.

I've had some kidney problems over the past couple of years which they have never really been able to diagnose as anything specific. Last Dec. the specialist wanted to do an arteriogram, then possible angioplasty on one of them. I said fine as long as my acupuncturist could be there to treat my back, as one has to stay flat for several hours afterwards and I've been there before and was not willing to go there, again, without the acu's help. My doc and the specialist said fine; the surgeon wouldn't even discuss it. In fact, he wanted to talk with me about the surgery ONLY on the morning of! So I said no thanks and went back to the acu-guy.

I have been going in for acupuncture treatments, not specific to my kidneys, but a variety of things which have built up over the years, which are related. I have had regular checkups with my doc, including blood and urine. All protein and blood which had been showing up in my urine, off and on, for two years, is gone and has been for 3 months, now. My docs have no explanation, but I believe it is because of Chinese medicine, including the acupuncture. Everyone who sees me notices how much better my colour is and a myriad of other things. For me, Chinese medicine, sans any animal parts, strikes a harmonious chord within my soul and I know that it is right for me. It is a tradition I intend to follow for life.

This does not mean I will never go to an allopathic physician ever again and I have not gone off my oxygen nor my meds, BUT those are long-term goals of acupuncture and a balancing in all ways, including emotional, physical, and spiritual.

For peri-men o'pause and men o'pause: tincture of dandelion root and tincture of motherwort worked very well for me. I've never had to take hormones and it was never a big deal. I did take to wearing pyjamas again, as with night sweats, it was easier to change them, instead of the sheets everyday!:-)

This week, I fell very hard on the ice. Landed on my left shin and bent back my left hand. All kinds of other spots were impacted including my left ankle and foot. Lots of shaking up and bruises expected.

Within the hour I had arnica pellets to melt under my tongue, a homeopathic treatment for bruising and shaking, and I had a tincture called geng fu shui (middle bone water) which I kept my shin and arm damp with, using gauze. I kept up the application of that and am still using the arnica pellets. That happened on Wednesday. While I do have some swelling and tenderness, I do not have the horrible stiffness, achiness, nor bruises I would have expected just using conventional RICE treatments (Rest, Ice, Compress, Elevate, if I remember right.)

I also used the above tincture on the tennis elbow I'd asked for advice for a couple of months ago. It, combined with acupuncture, has totally taken care of it. When my regular doc saw me last Monday, he was amazed.

I have also had friends with liver problems from AIDS use dandelion root tincture with excellent effect, in fact it is known as a good general all around tonic.

I also drink a glass of aloe vera juice per day. It has all kinds of good properties, but is esp. known for its effectiveness in keeping the solids plumbing working well. There a prescriptin for you, Spaw! Tastes good, but you can put it with o.j. etc. if you don't like it.**BG**

Let's see, are you bored, yet? Just one other thing: Bach Flower Remedy; I always have some of their "Rescue Rememdy" on hand, in tincture form, to place under my tongue when something has happened which is hugely upsetting, physically or emotionally. My acupuncturist also has it in a cream form to rub on the skin. I've used the tincture many times, not just for myself, but also with family and friends.

IMO, it's best to keep a balance; there is good and bad in all paths. We have to go with what feels right for us and listen to our bodies and hearts. Just one more note, what feels/tastes good is not always what is best for us!

Thanks,

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Mudlark
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 08:19 PM

After 15 years of dealing with lupus, and unwilling to take prednisone unless life-threatening attack hits, I have found the best home remedies to be prompt attention to body signals....when in doubt, don't push it, whatever "it" is...rest when your body says rest, even if external events make that inconvenient. And for those times when I don't listen to my own good advice, I take Advil...I know there are problems with that too, but at a much lower level. I also try to take a break from it every few days, if needed over a longer time, for chronic flares with lots of arthritic pain, even if that means being less active.

I've been taking vitamins for several years, and swear by them...Vit. C up to 5 grams a day in cold season has kept me (knock wood) pretty safe, and early doses of echinacea and golden seal help to ward off all but the most virulent cold/flu attacks if taken early enough. Sniffing mild salt solution (1/4 tsp. in 4-6 oz warm water) excellent for sinus clearing with absolutely no side effects (not something you want to do in front of a new love interest, however).

Diagnosed with macular degeneration nearly a year ago, I once again turned to supplements...read up on all studies, etc. and started taking large doses of lutein, zinc, CoQ10, etc., sadly to no avail...it is getting worse. I wont give up on supplements quite yet tho...for all I know it is slowing progression, even if I'm not winning.

Granola in the morning, large helpings of greens every night practically guarantee regularity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 08:41 PM

During the 30 plus years that I have suffered from a complex of debilitating chronic illnesses, I have experienced some good results with some allopathic approaches. I see my regular doctor about every three months, and if she suggests a new pharmaceutical drug that she thinks might help, I try it.

At best, most of them have been merely bandaids and not long term solutions to the problems. At worst, many of them were making me much sicker, and maybe even killing me, while many of the alternative aproaches that I have used are alleviating a lot of my suffering, and some are probably saving my life. This can be proved through the use of tests that are recognized by allopathic medicine.

I get a little emotional when people broadly dismiss alternative aproaches that they know little or nothing about. I can elaborate on this later, but I just wanted to say that much right now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Art Thieme
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 11:00 PM

One day I went to Pizza Hut and bought a pizza that I brought home, opened up, and while my back was turned, my cat took a shit on the pizza. Not having noticed the addition of the additional topping, I ate the pizza. That very day I had an amazing spontaneous remission of my MS symptoms. Of course, I was certain I'd experienced the improvements BECAUSE of the unique pizza I had ingested. I called Oprah Winfrey and told her the good news and within a week I was on her TV show telling the world of the real and miraculous benefits of TURD PIZZA as a cure for Multiple Sclerosis. I'm happy to say that I was just informed today that Pizza Hut and Dominos are both thinking seriously of putting TURD PIZZA on their menus.

Alas, I take no credit for this. All of the credit must go to my Higher Power.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 11:24 PM

Ah, but here's the real question everyone wants to know, Art... If it was proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that cat shit cures MS, would you eat it? (And can I watch? ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 12:21 AM

Ok. My case is incredibly complicated. But here's an example of what I'm talking about...

I have been chronically and dangerously anemic, for several years. There are several reasons for this. One of the reasons has to do with the effect that consuming commercial grade dairy products and eggs (that contain laboratory produced artificial hormones), has on my body. In my case, the consumption of these products was causing severe endometriosis and uterine fibroids. (As well as severe PMS that lasted all month long.) The endometriosis and uterine fibroids, aside from being extremely painful, were causing me to lose a lot of blood every month.

On top of this, my body had been for years becoming less and less able to tolerate any kind of food whatever. I couldn't digest most proteins, fats, and iron. And beyond the issues of digestion, I was experiencing a severe allergic reaction to almost all foods. The allergic reaction would cause a massive adrenaline response, and any food I had eaten would be cleared out of my digestive system right quick. So I couldn't keep anything in long enough for my body to digest it.

This past December, when I went to my doctor's office, I was so weak and malnourished, it was decided that no blood would be drawn even though I needed to have my blood iron levels checked, for fear that I would pass out on the drive home (I was driving).

About two years ago, I stopped eating commercial grade dairy products and eggs and started only eating (very small amounts) of "organic", meaning containing no hormones or antibiotics, dairy and eggs. And I started using pharmaceutical grade natural progesterone (not laboratory produced). Progesterone is an estrogen antagonist. Laboratory produced progesterone (the prescription kind) makes my problems much worse, while the natural kind, that hasn't been artificially altered in a laboratory, has helped a lot. Since I started using only organic dairy and eggs, and the natural progesterone, I have been losing less that half the amount of blood as I was before.

But I was still having a problem eating and taking supplements for the other reasons. I have found that I am able to digest most of the foods that I was previously unable to digest with the help of digestive enzymes that I purchase from a health food store. And I take beta hydrochloride to help my body absorb the iron supplements I take. So there's the digestion problem taken care of.

But I was still having the severe allergic reactions to the food I was trying to digest, and so I couldn't keep it in anyway. I stumbled on an answer to this quite accidently. I didn't know what was producing the adrenalin response when I ate food. In fact, I thought I was having free-floating anxiety attacks. But I realized that they were mostly only happening after I had eaten something.

So as an experiment, I started taking an antihistamine before meals. Within a couple of weeks, I was able to eat most of the foods that I had been unable to eat for so long, and what's even more fortunate for my body, I was able to tolerate taking a multiple vitamin containing B vitamin complex for the first time in over a decade. This was extremely good news because my body was so malnourished and it needed those vitamins.

A couple of months ago I was slowly dying of starvation. I was pale, weak, and frighteningly skinny, and unable to eat much of anything at all. I still can't do even a fraction of the amount of stuff that other people can do (yet), but my skin is getting rosy and healthy looking. My iron levels have improved as of the last time I had them tested. The places where my hair was falling out in clumps has hair growing back in now.

Now, that's just one of the many complexes of the kinds of problems I experience, and I still have a lot of work to do to try to get healthy. But I think it gives clear and undisputable evidence that sometimes alternative methods can work. If they're used right and for the right things.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Hrothgar
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 03:37 AM

Amos

How many wives do you have for one of them to be "Best Beloved?"

:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: GUEST,Paddy Joe.
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 07:06 AM

Spaw, Just come on to this thread, After a series of heart attacks, I had a Quad by-pass two years ago. Like youself my heart was damaged and unlike yourself I am slowing down, over the past couple of months I notice my old legs are not as quick as they were. I am glad to know that you have made a good recovery, and long may it continue. Paddy Joe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Amos
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 09:58 AM

Hroth:

Well, it was kinda an intensive, not a conparative use of the word. But it is an interesting question!!

A.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Art Thieme
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 11:01 AM

Carol C,

So sorry to hear of all your very sad problems. I was spoofing the tendencies of many people I know who have done appalling things that cost a ton and a half of cash to do things that had no effect on their problems. After two solid months in St. Mary's hospital at the Mayo Clinic, I walked into my house and within 5 minutes, actually before I had my coat off, there was a call from someone, a total stranger's spam call, claiming to have found the cure for MS. I really do wish you all the best in your search for some relief.

Art


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 11:18 AM

I think Art hit on something that affects us all. The hardest part of the MS diagnosis in the beginning is the silence from all around. Then the next hardest thing is all the confrontations with friends, family, even total strangers about their knowledge of a cure or something that will help you. I've heard it all, and trust me, I heard it several years before the general public heard it. I'm strong enough now to respond to people. Often just a link to the MS Society research news, or a polite thanks for your concern suffices. When I was new to the diagnosis, I was not that strong. I try to keep an open mind every single day. The nice thing about Mudcat is that a large portion of the people here are extrememly intelligent, knowledgeable, open-minded and caring...and they are not afraid to speak up!


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 05:11 PM

Well, thanks one and all. Yes, I realize that a lot of what is out there is quackery, but there are those occasions for many when they hit on something that works (I have already listed what worked for me). Anyone remember the movie "Lorenzo's Oil"?

My story is similar to CarolC's, though not as severe...which is no surprise, as we're related. I am at about 80% what was once my norm for energy and mental functioning, which is a great improvement from what it was only a short while ago. There was a time when I thought for sure I must have alzheimers and a perpetual flu, as I always felt as if I had been awake for several days or had been hit by a bus (or both), no matter how much rest I may have gotten. I've traded info with other sufferers (to include CarolC), and in the end, we have all found things that worked for us to greater and lesser degrees. "Chronic Fatigue" has been laughed at by most of the medical community for decades, and is only now becoming something that *some* will acknowledge. And so, many of us have been on our own to figure it out as we go.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Hawker
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 06:37 PM

Spaw,
Great advice! I would agree whole heartedly, It is wise to seek medics help to ensure that you are not missing, making or worening by taking an alternative approach. A good example of this is when I thought it may be helpful to my high blood pressure to take St John's Wort, as it is an antidepressant, and, living a stressed life I guessed it would do me good - NOT SO! St John's Wort can elevate blood pressure and is not an ideal solution. However, as I mentioned on the other thread about injured backs, Kevin's back problems are due to wear, mainly arthritic as are my joint problems. I am discouraged from taking NSAIDs due to my heart problems and in any case they can cause stomach ulcers in the long term. So my choice is bear the pain or try something else, my husband could take NSAIDs but choses to use the magnet. For those who haven't read the other thread, the bioflow magnet, made by Ecoflow - see their website here is worn like a wristwatch with the magnet over the pulse. The magnets were originally being designed to reduce fuel consumption in car engines, but had such a dramatic effect on one of the severely arthritic staff who was carrying them round in his pocket that they did some research and now produce them to help alleviate pain. I don't understand all the ins & outs, but I have worn one since last September, I cannot say I am cured, there is still some pain, but I can now run up stairs where before I could only crawl and my husband hasnt groaned about pain in his back for months. I was happy to try this product as they offer a money back guarantee if it doesn't work, and am happy to pass this information on because it certainly made a difference to me. I would however suggest that like any medical situation, check with your doctor first.
Anybody else had help from a bioflow magnet (I believe there is a Japanese firm calle Nikken who do a similar product which may be better known in the USA)?
I can also recommend Echinacea Purpurea as a cold cure. I take it at the first sniffle and if taken in time, certainly knocks a cold on the head.
Cheers
Lucy


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 07:12 PM

Do two things first...read "your body's many cries for water.." about rampant dehyrdation. Then do a google search under "high insulin levels"...almost any ailment you can think of is related..and it is quite easy for most people to reverse (first drop all trans fats and refined and processed carbs..)...besides preceeding type 2 diabetes, it is correlated (and major predictor of) some types of heart ailments. Read Syndrome X by Dr. Gerald Raven..former chair of endocrinology at Stanford...many of these ailments are really one ailment..related by high insulin and blood sugar levels...also Schwartzbein Principal by another endocrinologist...the writing is on the wall....we are about to see health problems collapse in the "developed" world...and the huge amount of medication people have been taking will be drastically cut...good news for everyone but a few pharmaceutical corporations...also there are many labs where you can get your saliva hormonal levels checked...very important for chronic fatigue especially...mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Wolfgang
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 04:48 AM

An excellent online information about the dangers of alternative health practices is quackwatch

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 11:26 AM

Excellent if one's god is science and everything has to have an explanation before one can believe in it working. Trouble with that is it overlooks the power of the mind to believe, have faith, and experience the unexplainable. Some medical doctors are aware of this and have accepted it.

NO, I do not condone "snake-oil" salesman types, etc.

There are so many reasons for the medical establishment to keep anything repressed which is not under their very lucrative control. Ah, well, it seems to be your job, Wolfgang, or that of a couple of others, to always come into these discussions to do some "debunking."

I hope this time, folks will carry on and not be intimidated, as in the past. To each his own, eh?

kat - when the docs were left not knowing what to do with me, acupuncture worked!


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 01:12 PM

Wolfgang, I would agree with you that there are some dangers in some alternative health practices, just as there are some dangers present in some allopathic health approaches. But it does no-one a service to paint all alternative health approaches with the same broad brush. I invite you to read my last post and tell me in what way I have been harmed by the alternative approaches I used and in what way I might have been better off using allopathic approaches.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 01:53 PM

Thanks Art. And to you and Mary in Kentucky, I know what you're talking about. I get a lot of the same sort of thing. Both from advocates of alternative approaches as well as physicians advocating inapropriate allopathic approaches. I can't tell you how many times doctors have tried to tell me it's all in my head and have tried to put me on anti-depressants. I've tried many different things that were suggested to me by both groups of people with an open mind, and I've had mixed results.

I can safely say that anti-depressants don't work for people like me. In fact, every time I've tried them, they've made me much sicker than I already was. I have learned recently (this coming from an allopathic physician), that anti-depressants are usually a very bad idea for people who have multiple chemical sensitivities as I do.

There are some prescription medications that I take and have good results with. If they work for me, and if they don't make me sicker, I use them gladly. On the other hand, I saw what a huge difference ENADA was making in my sister's (Celtic Soul) ability to function, so I have recently started taking it to see if it would work for me. It's not curing me of all of my problems, but I can feel the difference.

For years, my legs and feet have not felt very alive to me. It's been like they were just these things stuck to my body. They worked somewhat adequately, but not particularly well. Since I started taking the ENADA, they actually feel alive. And they work much better these days. It's a small thing in the overall picture of my health, but I find it utterly delightful, and I love it.

Just in case anyone is unfamiliar with the difference between Chronic Fatigue Immune Disfunction Syndrome (CFIDS) as opposed to "Chronic Fatigue" (being chronically tired or fatigued), CFIDS is a very complicated disorder, closely related to Fibromyalgia. In fact, many people have both CFIDS and Fibromyalgia at the same time, along with multiple chemical sensitivities. (I have all three of these, as well as a ruptured disk in my neck that presses on my spinal cord.)

With CFIDS, there is a tendency to experience a disregulated immune system. In most cases, this means that the immune system is in a constant state of overdrive, but it doesn't work very effectively. So the CFIDS sufferer gets sick a lot with whatever germs are going around, as well as quite a few things that are difficult to find the origin of. People who have this state of disregulated immune system should stay away from Echinacea. Although it can be effective in suppressing viruses in most otherwise healthy people, it can cause problems for CFIDS sufferers.

I find that taking a product called "Cold-eeze" works quite effectively in suppressing most colds if I start taking it at the first sign of any symptoms. Where I used to get numerous colds every year, or sometimes just one long cold that wouldn't go away, I only experience one or two if I use the Cold-eeze in a timely manner.

Another virus that I experience a lot of problems with, in the herpes family of viruses (similar to shingles), lives in a mostly dormant state in my body pretty much all the time, and it periodically flares up in strange places, like certain muscle bundles, or in the area around my brain or brain stem, and other odd places. This cause all kinds of problems ranging from extreme vertigo, to migraine headaches, to intense pain in various parts of my body, as well as some cognitive problems and difficulty seeing. I find that if I take a tincture of an herb called Chaparral when symptoms first appear, the problem goes away pretty quickly, and never becomes full blown.

One of the allopathic approaches that I use wholeheartedly is flu shots. I get a flu shot every year, and I'm thankful for them. Influenza can be a very dangerous thing for people with compromised immune systems.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 02:30 PM

I sincerely think we are all on the same page here. If we can just stop a minute and listen...listen with a desire to hear and understand what is being said...strive for understanding without sematics getting in the way.

I thank Wolfgang for that link. I've had it bookmarked for years. It is an absolute necessity to know your sources when you're researching medical information on your own. I thought his statement was one of just pure and simple fact, and I much prefer that way of communicating. As a matter of fact, I've chosen a neurologist who is often criticized for her lack of bedside manner, but happens to be one of the most intelligent people I know. This is by far the most important thing to me. But what many people don't seem to appreciate about her is that she is also very caring and compassionate. So the lesson from this is: don't judge a person from your perception of their words. It's just unfair.

Spaw spoke for me above more eloquently than I could express. I'm firmly on the fence here. I've seen things I can't explain; I've also experienced the pain of having to argue with well wishers about why or why not I choose to do something. My hope is to keep an open mind, to optimize every possible strategy under my control in order to have good health, especially the things I don't fully understand. (I'm well aware of diet, exercise, reducing stress, not introducing "poisons" into my body, etc. etc.)

One reason this Quackwatch page is so good is that it is a reliable source for people like me with limited time and access to information. I know I can trust the site because they are far ahead of me in looking for news and in investigating it. When I saw the comment about Lorenzo's Oil here at Mudcat I knew we were not all on the same page. That has been documented in MS literature for years. The movie did not give a true and complete picture, and thus has caused a lot of harm and heartache to people who don't have access to all the information.

I'm one of the world's biggest critics of doctors. But I don't paint them all with a broad brush. I've also been subjected to about every nutritional and physical "cure" for MS and its symptoms. And I don't automatically discount or paint any of them with a broad brush. My hope is to always have an open mind, to know my limits, and to have to strength of will to keep inquiring. And also to really listen to what people are saying.

One last analogy: It took me two years to finally realize that eveyone around me reacted in different ways to my diagnosis and used different words to communicate. Not until I saw my parents saying and not saying certain things did I finally understand.

We really are all on the same page her


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 02:39 PM

Oops, Carol, I think we cross-posted.

RE: Flu shots. It's not an easy question. The information has been contradictory for flu shots for people with MS. Do you want to stimulate an already overactive immune system or do you not want to take the chance of getting the flu. Then what are your chances of getting it? Are you in a high risk category for exposure? Not an easy answer. Certainly one I'm not qualified to answer. But my doctor and I are always looking at the questions. And the answers change every year.

Also, can my Betaseron go through X-rays at the airport? Nobody really has the definitive answer. Also, what is the best calcium supplement? I've asked numerous people. Only did an orthopedic surgeon remember from chemistry class the only calcium carbonate can be absorbed. Also, can I donate my organs? Nobody really knows... Also, who regulates the over the counter supplements...they really are drugs? Too many questions for me to have pat answers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 02:39 PM

P.S. In my 24-Mar-02 - 12:21 AM post I said I take "Beta Hydrochloride" to help my body absorb iron, when I should have said, "Betaine Hydrochloride"


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 02:43 PM

Hi Mary. Cross posted again. I don't know about flu shots for people with MS, but I find that if I don't get them, I get much, much sicker than if I do get them. So I get them. I get pretty much every germ that passes through my community even though I hardly ever even leave my apartment. Seems like I can get them from just going to the grocery store.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Bearheart
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 02:47 PM

There is some good research going on in the alternative field. Something to remember is that some modalities have stood the test of time, and just because our ancestors did it doesn't mean it doesn't work. I know of many people who were as screwed up by modern medicine as by any alternative practice. Unfortunately while there are good doctors out there ther are also charletans who will do procedures (like back surgery) on people that they know are not going to fix them. They are just addicted to playing God and making money.

Before you make important decisions, inform yourself about what's out there and what's possible, and always ask for references from other patients if a doctor wants to do an invasive procedure. A doctor who is proud of his work and is doing a good job should be happy to refer you to a pleased patient (or better yet, several). Same with a massage therapist, naturopath, herbalist or other health care professional.

There are lots of forums out there where people discuss what works for them. Many problems that seem severe and hard to diagnose can sometimes be solved very simply. Metabolic and autoimmune disorders are some of those. Live Right for your Type is a good book on diet and blood type that has been extensively researched, the third in a series, which includes the results of 1200 studies on blood type, most done in the last 5 years.It also includes many, many case studies, more of which you can read on the website. In fact the website is a good place to go if you have trouble getting your hands on the book... I myself have resolved severe incipient arthritis and other health problems following it, and many folks I have shared it with have reported similar experiences, reducing their cholesterol, diabetic problems and digestive problems.The author does by the way discuss Syndrome X (mentioned above) at length, and its relationship to blood type.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Kim C
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 02:52 PM

Well, every body's different. Mister swears by aspirin, which doesn't do a thing for me. Bring on the naproxen sodium! My doctor says Zyrtec makes her sleepy - not me. Which is odd, because most antihistamines knock me Right Out.

Peppermint is fabulous for tummy upsets. If you can't make tea, carry a box of Altoids.

If I am having trouble sleeping I take a couple of hops caspules. Works like a charm, except on Sunday nights. For many years, I have rarely been able to sleep all the way through a Sunday night. Last night was no exception. But that's another story.

Gotu kola (no relation to the kola nut) is reputed to have some anti-anxiety effects, and seems to have helped alleviate my PMS somewhat.

Of course, all of these things I've mentioned are temporary ailments. For anything serious, I wholeheartedly recommend doctors. I think most of them are good people who want to help you. :-) Some of them are open-minded, and even knowledgeable, about the use of alternative remedies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 03:30 PM

I think it pays to bear in mind that a human being is a complex package of systems, of which the body is one. Doctors of allopathic study know a great deal about the structure of that system and are learning more every week.

There are several other systems in play in the whole, though, which are nowehre near as well understood, one being the mind -- both the distress/unconscious (so called) parts and the analytical and intuitive parts -- and another being the workings of the individual as a spiritual vector, about which very little reliable data of a universal sort exists, and a great deal of semi-cooked information is used instead.

Point is that these systems interact with each other -- nothing shakes up a mind like a physical trauma, and it is also generally true that an oppressed or depressed mind is more prone to walk into physical traumas than a clear and fully operational one. But the boundaries of these systems aren't known and the mechanisms of their interactions are only guessed at.

There's a lot more could be said on these and others that seem to be in play in day-to-day experience, but I don't have a week! :P>)

Best regards,

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 03:49 PM

I think you're right, Amos. And one of the systems that gets overlooked a lot in allopathic medicine (at least here in the US), is nutrition. Most allopathic doctors recieve very little training at all in nutrition, and they often overlook such factors when making medical decisions. Their focus, more often than not, is to treat disease, rather than to promote health.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 04:16 PM

I agree somewhat...

But the doctors I've seen are way ahead of me in counseling for nutrition, the omega-3 oils, etc.

But the problem is, if people won't even LOSE WEIGHT and QUIT SMOKING and EXERCISE, how effective is nutritional counseling. (and we won't even get in to studies of compliance, just taking your meds like you were instructed to). I love to cricize doc, but I sure wouldn't have the patience (or patients) for the job!


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 12:23 AM

Lobellia...easy to grow...good for the soul.
Yarrow...long and narrow...flu friendly fellow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 06:12 AM

Kat, you react as if even the mere information about potential dangers was a threat to your beliefs.

everything has to have an explanation before one can believe in it working.

You got completely wrong. That's neither my position nor standard anywhere in science. To have a working explanation or a theory for an effect is preferable to have none for a lot of reasons, but a reliable fact remains a fact even without explanation.

What truly separates science from belief systems is something else, namely the demand that something has to be shown to work before believing.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 10:01 AM

I guess it comes down to "let they buyer beware."

There are alternative therapies that work.
There are some that are scams, and effective only in divesting you of money.
There are some that will harm or even kill you.

If you're interested in a particular type of therapy, get as much information on it as you can. First find out if it can be harmful, then find out if it's likely to work. I looked at Wolfgang's site, at the paper they had on kava-kava. They didn't say it was ineffective - quite the contrary - but they did list potential problems with it. What they said about herbal preparations has also been true in my own experience: there is no regulation, no quality control other than what the manufacturer applies, and potency varies from brand to brand.

It makes good sense to be as skeptical of alternative therapies as you would be of allopathic ones, and don't rely only on "I heard X was good for your condition," or "X worked for me."


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 12:05 PM

Es tut mir leid, Wolfgang. I guess my defenses were up based on some of the past threads where we've tangled on other such controversial subjects and others did drop out because it became too uncomfortable for them to express opposing views.

FWIW, I do not agree with most of what that site has to say about acupuncture and I would hope anyone contemplating it would do more research and speak to a practitioner, as well as other people who've experienced it, before dismissing it as just some 2,000 yr. old "folk rememdy."

That's it for me. Thanks for the interesting discussion.

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 02:27 PM

Another great link, Health on the Net. [http://www.hon.ch/] Only reputable sites can display this logo. It also has a link to Medline which I've used to get the "straight scoop" when I can't get to a med school library. I lurk around on bulletin boards and surf in general for anectdotal stories in order to learn the vocabulary of what to look for. But for reliable information, I want to know my sources, and I don't readily trust any one person or organization for the complete story. (I certainly don't trust my own limited experiences...and I especially don't trust people in the media or people who stand to gain financially or politically from their advice.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: GUEST,DR
Date: 30 Mar 02 - 03:01 AM

The tummy stimulator belts have been banned and now prosecuted in California.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: okthen
Date: 30 Mar 02 - 04:35 AM

Does anyone have reliable info on Alpha lipoic acid and L-carnitine, seems too good to be true from what I've read.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 02:29 AM

copper braclet for arthritis - also vinegar every morning - and eliminate all sugar


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 01:43 PM

read up on leaky gut syndrome..seems to also be behind many ailments..Adelle Kuhn gets into it in her 5 secrets for a healthy life.or some such title...the gist of it is you get tears in your gut, proteins etc. will leak through and body will react to them and develop autoimmune conditions...Also read up on celiac disease and gluten sensitivity. There are tests for this..I got one incidentally and found I am supposed to have it although I have no symptoms...mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: GUEST,Guest/Ebbie
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 07:31 PM

I'm interested in finding out something about alternative pain medicines. From having had surgery last month, I now know there are many kinds of narcotics my system won't handle.

Morphine made my head roar, made me vomit, made me feel like I was in tremendous pain- I wasn't. Then they gave me Vicodin and I literally couldn't sit up. Then they gave me something called something like Tuflux (that can't be it, though)and I spun around so badly it scared them- they told me to just lie down, just let myself go to sleep... Which I did and slept for almost 4 hours.

My surgery wouldn't have been a problem at all, if I had been able to tolerate narcotics. As it was, instead of going home on Wednesday noon, I wasn't able to leave the hospital until Thursday night.

I had informed the surgeon beforehand that 30 years ago, pain medicine had made me upchuck, so that after that all the doctor allowed me to have was plain Tylenol. But she still gave me all these narcotics. I'm bummed, frankly.

Does anyone know of a reliable alternative pain medicine??

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 08:07 PM

here is an article on leaky gut..I did a google search and there are 6,000 entries..

http://www.gfcherbs.com/leaky_gut.htm

Next question, is this related to the low-fat craze? Especially low saturated fat. I think Dr. Mary Enig has raised this question and I'll look around...ask yourself, what are your cell membranes made of??????


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 08:18 PM

here for Enig and leaky gut..

http://www.westonaprice.org/facts_about_fats/skinny.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 11:21 PM

50% of the population has diverticulius by age 50.

More water, fiber, exercise will prevent 50% of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Amos
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 11:50 PM

From what little experience I have had, Ebbie, I would look first and foremost to calcium and magnesium, because they can counteract nervous r3eactions/tension, and B complex vitamins. I am sure there are some established herbal recommendations against pain, but i don't know what theu might be and would suggest contacting several experts and hearing what they have to say.

ANother approach used in some chiropractic offices is the use of TENS devices, small currents of electricity applied to over-stressed muscles that pull the strcuture out of whack. I have found it to be very useful for pulled muscles.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: 53
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 11:56 PM

Does a Chiropractor count?


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Amos
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 01:32 AM

The ones I have met seemed quite competent at counting. For example they have to be able to count the number of vertebrae from the first one down to the site of a subluxation. They've all seemed quite good at it!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Bert
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 02:22 AM

Of course if Doctors weren't so effing stupid then there wouldn't BE altenative treatments. Anything that worked would be studied and documented impartially. But they are so insecure (Probably with good reason) that they refuse to consider anything that they didn't learn in school.

I think that the web will eventually cure these problems by making information universally available. One day Doctors may discover this and learn something.

Until then we have to live with their incompetance and search for solutions where we will.

I have been fortunate in being very healthy. But what few problems I've had have been dealt with very poorly by the medical profession. I had sciatica when I was in my early twenties and it took about six Doctors to get it wrong before it was finally diagnosed correctly. Never anywhere have I seen or heard of Doctors recommending that patients wth sciatica refrain from caffeine. But experience and plain old common sense told me that when my back was hurting the last thing I needed was something that put my nerves on edge.

And Mary, Re: losing weight, They (two doctors) put Lou on a diet because she was gaining weight. The weight gain was a growth due to Non Hodgkins Lymphoma. If they hadn't further weakened her with starvation when she was very sick she might have survived.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 09:28 AM

I know what you mean about mistakes. I once counted that I was seeing about 20 doctors. (It's not as bad as it sounds, there were moves, job changes, and of course at my age, the older doctors retired and I had to get new ones.) One of my pet peeves is the accessibility of good doctors. It seems that you almost have to have a friend or relative to pull strings to get you a timely appointment. One other pet peeve is the inaccuracy of lab tests that we as laypersons don't have access to. I suffered from low thyroid and consequent misdiagnoses for three years because of inaccurate lab tests.

I think there is a real need for another type of healthcare worker, a kind of physician's assistant who spends more time with a patient getting an accurate history and facilitating education. I've seen six neurologists and NOT ONE got a complete and accurate history! (I could have filled out a questionaire and done a better job.) I've seen nurse assistants to the heart surgeons who do patient couseling. The MS Society and drug companies conduct very good seminars. For awhile, my church had a parish nurse who conducted all kinds of education and training, especially for blood pressure. The new push in pharmacist training is for more patient education. So it is possible to get better care, I just don't know when the politicians and the public will demand it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 10:24 AM

Mary, you are SOOO right!!! My friend Wayne is a Physician's Assistant (PA) who can't get a job!!! A few years ago it looked like the way to go and Wayne, a 25 year EMT/Paramedic went to college and got his degree......In the meantime, the interest on the part of Doctors and hospitals slowed down and many of the PA's are either working in some other lower paying capacity, working only parttime, or doing something else entirely! The jobs are getting harder and harder to come by. That's really a shame because they can offer so much to a Doctor. Makes you wonder what the Doc is really after doesn't it?

On that same medical history note, I get really frustrated everytime I go in the hospital because it seems that about 20 people come in and ask the same things!!! Doesn't anyone share the info???? It was also obvious that if they would listen to me, there would be a lot fewer problems. There seems to be a belief among some Docs and nurses that the patient doesn't know jackshit. My GP is simply the greatest because she does listen and treats me with respect, believing that I do know what I'm talking about.

When I was in for the damn Diverticulitis attack that went toxic, the surgeons were worried about the aneurysm and rightly so to some degree. But when I began to explain in detail that it was a dissection that had stabilized and giving them the details of all the tests I've had, including pressures, etc.......They looked at me as if I couldn't possibly know the stuff!!!!

I guess one needs a medical degree from somewhere legitimate instead of the one I am getting from "U-got-it University."

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Amos
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 10:45 AM

There have been a number of completely rigorous studies with statistics, repeatability and appropriate blindness covering various alternative therapeutic approaches. Lancet published one that supporting the positive results in cancer patients of guided imagery. The Journal I reference above routinely publishes papers of similar rigor.

But I am sure, given the huge amount of information they have to keep up with, that these are not known to most allopathic specialists.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 12:03 PM

I always figure I have to inform my doctor. He hasn't any time to keep up with anything outside the usual and he doesn't feel threatened if I do some research and come in and tell him how it is. There is so much available on the internet, now, there is no need for anyone with access to take any doctor's say-so without questions. A well-informed patient can protect themselves and educate the medical staff, too. Or, their ally can do it for them.

Bert, I am sorry to hear that happened to Lou when she was already so ill.

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 06 Apr 02 - 02:07 PM

Our medical system has become too money oriantated. To find a Docter that cares about the individual is a rarity. Although they do exist, they are hard to find.
I believe that is partly why people are returning to root medicine, meaning back to what the earth has provided, in it's pure form of medicine.
Let's not forget where medicine comes from! Roots, barks, leaves,seeds,flowers. The first asprin (salicylic acid) was synthesized from the plant-Meadowsweet, later found in the bark of White Willow.
Rx for Meadowsweet-1-2 tsp. dried herb per cup of boiling water, Steep 10 min. In a tincture take 1/2 to 1 tsp. up to 3 times a day.
White Willow on the other hand contains more salicylates than meadowsweet making it a more potent natural healer.
Rx for White Willow- soak 1 tsp. of powdered bark, per cup of cold water for 8 hours. Strain. Drink up to 3 cups a day. Willow is a bitter so use honey and lemon.
A added note of caution as with any drug, pregnant women should not use these, and if any stomach upset occurs use less or discontinue use.
Another thing I would like to add about willow- break up a bunch of twigs and branches, slowly simmer in a huge pot for 8 hours and let steep for the evening, then bottle the water. What this is is a great natural growth hormone to start new plants from cuttings.
I am a believer in Eating Healthy, Drinking Pure Water, Garlic, Deep Breathing to alleviate stress ( A HUGE culprit in ill health) and Laughter! And believe in the powers of your own natural healing defenses!( People have a tendency of taking too many drugs and Doctors have a tendency for prescribing too many)
Rustic


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 02 - 01:23 PM

Copper Bracelets for arthritis IF you can stand the green on your wrists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: GUEST,Clementis
Date: 08 Apr 02 - 06:48 AM

Baths. Mineral baths work real good. At home or at a spa. Drink some too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 02 - 12:13 AM

Anyone try the pyramids - under them or on your head? They are at the health fares.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 12:00 AM

In additions to pissing on your feet to cure foot fungus, there are some who prescribe it as drink for a multitude of ills.


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Subject: RE: BS: Alternative health treatments
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 07:53 PM

Katlaughing is the only one who has tried acupuncture with any success?


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This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 3 June 9:21 PM EDT

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