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You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...

Peter T. 26 Feb 02 - 06:17 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Feb 02 - 06:39 PM
SINSULL 26 Feb 02 - 06:43 PM
gnu 26 Feb 02 - 06:49 PM
Mr Red 26 Feb 02 - 07:04 PM
GUEST 26 Feb 02 - 07:09 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Feb 02 - 07:13 PM
GUEST 26 Feb 02 - 07:16 PM
CarolC 26 Feb 02 - 07:18 PM
Rick Fielding 26 Feb 02 - 07:54 PM
michaelr 26 Feb 02 - 08:21 PM
Little Hawk 26 Feb 02 - 08:56 PM
M.Ted 26 Feb 02 - 09:58 PM
ddw 26 Feb 02 - 09:59 PM
JenEllen 26 Feb 02 - 10:01 PM
kendall 26 Feb 02 - 10:11 PM
Helen 26 Feb 02 - 10:22 PM
Seamus Kennedy 26 Feb 02 - 10:44 PM
Bill D 26 Feb 02 - 11:09 PM
Justa Picker 26 Feb 02 - 11:14 PM
kendall 26 Feb 02 - 11:26 PM
CarolC 26 Feb 02 - 11:56 PM
CarolC 26 Feb 02 - 11:58 PM
Justa Picker 27 Feb 02 - 12:00 AM
Rick Fielding 27 Feb 02 - 12:06 AM
sian, west wales 27 Feb 02 - 07:59 AM
GUEST 27 Feb 02 - 08:03 AM
harpgirl 27 Feb 02 - 08:21 AM
Peter T. 27 Feb 02 - 08:34 AM
Rick Fielding 27 Feb 02 - 10:21 AM
gnu 27 Feb 02 - 10:42 AM
Bill D 27 Feb 02 - 10:49 AM
Rick Fielding 27 Feb 02 - 10:54 AM
SharonA 27 Feb 02 - 10:54 AM
Trevor 27 Feb 02 - 11:45 AM
Bill D 27 Feb 02 - 11:47 AM
katlaughing 27 Feb 02 - 11:52 AM
Jeri 27 Feb 02 - 12:18 PM
Fibula Mattock 27 Feb 02 - 12:33 PM
M.Ted 27 Feb 02 - 01:02 PM
Uncle_DaveO 27 Feb 02 - 01:51 PM
brid widder 27 Feb 02 - 02:20 PM
JenEllen 27 Feb 02 - 03:07 PM
SharonA 27 Feb 02 - 03:21 PM
Phil Cooper 27 Feb 02 - 03:23 PM
Little Hawk 27 Feb 02 - 03:39 PM
CapriUni 27 Feb 02 - 03:41 PM
gnu 27 Feb 02 - 03:49 PM
SharonA 27 Feb 02 - 03:50 PM
Desdemona 27 Feb 02 - 03:58 PM
Bat Goddess 27 Feb 02 - 04:14 PM
Jeri 27 Feb 02 - 04:17 PM
gnu 27 Feb 02 - 04:25 PM
GUEST,Lyle 27 Feb 02 - 04:49 PM
Little Hawk 27 Feb 02 - 05:02 PM
gnu 27 Feb 02 - 05:07 PM
harpgirl 27 Feb 02 - 05:13 PM
Herga Kitty 27 Feb 02 - 05:15 PM
M.Ted 27 Feb 02 - 05:35 PM
Little Hawk 27 Feb 02 - 05:46 PM
M.Ted 27 Feb 02 - 06:11 PM
gnu 27 Feb 02 - 06:14 PM
Rick Fielding 27 Feb 02 - 06:34 PM
Little Hawk 27 Feb 02 - 06:44 PM
Desdemona 27 Feb 02 - 06:56 PM
Helen 27 Feb 02 - 07:03 PM
Little Hawk 27 Feb 02 - 07:04 PM
Mickey191 27 Feb 02 - 07:13 PM
CapriUni 27 Feb 02 - 07:20 PM
Chicken Charlie 27 Feb 02 - 07:39 PM
hobbitwoman 27 Feb 02 - 07:44 PM
kendall 27 Feb 02 - 08:24 PM
Peg 28 Feb 02 - 09:53 AM
SharonA 28 Feb 02 - 10:42 AM
Little Hawk 28 Feb 02 - 12:18 PM
CapriUni 28 Feb 02 - 01:56 PM
SharonA 28 Feb 02 - 02:11 PM
kendall 28 Feb 02 - 02:46 PM
Herga Kitty 28 Feb 02 - 04:59 PM
katlaughing 28 Feb 02 - 07:22 PM
Amergin 28 Feb 02 - 07:25 PM
katlaughing 28 Feb 02 - 07:40 PM
GUEST,ET 28 Feb 02 - 09:00 PM
Little Hawk 28 Feb 02 - 10:11 PM
CapriUni 28 Feb 02 - 10:40 PM
SharonA 01 Mar 02 - 10:58 AM
CarolC 01 Mar 02 - 11:53 AM
CapriUni 01 Mar 02 - 12:35 PM
katlaughing 01 Mar 02 - 01:46 PM
M.Ted 01 Mar 02 - 01:50 PM
CarolC 01 Mar 02 - 02:11 PM
CarolC 01 Mar 02 - 02:14 PM
SharonA 01 Mar 02 - 02:16 PM
CapriUni 01 Mar 02 - 03:10 PM
SharonA 01 Mar 02 - 03:19 PM
JenEllen 01 Mar 02 - 03:37 PM
GUEST 01 Mar 02 - 04:20 PM
CapriUni 01 Mar 02 - 08:38 PM
kendall 01 Mar 02 - 10:10 PM
Little Hawk 01 Mar 02 - 10:28 PM
Amergin 01 Mar 02 - 10:35 PM
katlaughing 01 Mar 02 - 10:37 PM
CarolC 01 Mar 02 - 10:41 PM
CarolC 01 Mar 02 - 10:43 PM
kendall 01 Mar 02 - 10:52 PM
Little Hawk 01 Mar 02 - 11:39 PM
Phil Cooper 02 Mar 02 - 10:47 PM
JudyR 03 Mar 02 - 12:59 AM
M.Ted 03 Mar 02 - 01:44 AM
kendall 03 Mar 02 - 09:01 AM
kendall 03 Mar 02 - 09:19 AM
Celtic Soul 03 Mar 02 - 09:22 AM
JudyR 03 Mar 02 - 05:21 PM
JudyR 03 Mar 02 - 05:24 PM
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Subject: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Peter T.
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 06:17 PM

Although one continues to do really stupid things the older one gets, it occurred to me recently (from experience) that one reason older people have tough times on dates is that they can pick up hints that this might be a bad idea much earlier than they used to. You might call this excessive pickiness, but on the other hand, you might say that you are saving the time of two people by recognising that this is not worth investing a chunk of the rest of your diminishing lifetime in. On a first date recently, I was interrogated in detail about the hour and minute of my birth so that it could be determined if we were compatible according to the stars. One of those subtle tipoffs. A year or so ago I went out with a very nice lady who, when the check came, in a very elegant restaurant, whipped out a calculator so as to determine whether the sales taxes had been calculated properly.

Any other subtle tipoffs Catters might wish to share from their experiences on the front lines?

yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 06:39 PM

Who was picking up the bill in the second restarant? (I mean, if it was you, it might just have been her trying to be helpful.)

Stil, I don't know about that stuff. Married in 1964 and still married. But I suppose the two types of hints are the ones that would indicate that the other party doesn't like you - and more important (because not being liked is just a challenge), the ones that would tell you that you don't really feel in tune with the other party.

In tune indeed - musical tastes would play a big part in this for a lot of those here, I would hope.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 06:43 PM

I had a lovely man confess to paranoid schizophrenia on our first (and last) date. That wasn't the real tip-off. He followed up by emptying a satchel full of prescription drugs on the table with a complete description of each one's usefullness, side effects, etc.
He also became extremely agitated when talking about his ex...seems she had refused to give him a place setting of her best china so that he would have something to eat off of. Twenty years later it still sent him into a fury.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: gnu
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 06:49 PM

Take her to the mall or the grocery store. If she can't walk about without getting in your way or can't pick up her foodstuffs without blocking the aisle with her cart, leave her there. And, if, while on your drive to the mall/grocer's, she squirms because you are within a mile of the vehicle in front of you, drop her off at the door while you go to find a parking space... nudge, nudge, wink, wink.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 07:04 PM

Yea, I once had a "meeting" following an e-contact. I told her to look for red. That worked! We went to the Art gallery - plenty of knowledge floating back & forth. Jane Austen museum (you really gotta be into JA for that one) but I was observing and projecting. Sally Lunn cakes & coffee. Plenty talk but maybe not rapport. And we left it there, but she walked me to my car, insisted, just had to eyeball it.
Didn't so much pick up on that one, drove away wiping it of my person. Guess I just don't have a big enough one!

BUT you can never tell, next up was a Joy. The first time I took Joy to a Folk Club she said "I will never be able to take it seriously if they play Greensleeves!", she loooovesssss ceilidhs!
I think I can cope without Greensleeves!


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 07:09 PM

She was looking over my CD/Vinyl collection.

She happened upon a Bob Dylan album:

"Wasn't he the guy who started Live Aid?"

I knew then, that it wouldn't work out...


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 07:13 PM

Well, you could say in a sense he was.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 07:16 PM

and what sense would that be?


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 07:18 PM

If he asks you to marry him on the third date, say no.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 07:54 PM

Back about 10 years ago, I helped a friend compose a newspaper ad for the personals section. She showed it to two of her friends (they were in the 'forty something' age-bracket, and quite attractive) and it was decided that I had a 'knack' for this kind of thing.

The end result was that I was privy to information about dozens (it seemed like hundreds) of dates that each of them went on, as a result of these ads. At first it was kind of fun, but after a short while it was simply mindboggling (and not in a good sense). To begin with, the VAST majority of the letters that each received went straight into the trash bin without a second reading. Why? Incoherent, laughably bad spelling, written on LINED PAPER!, obvious attempts to cover up a 'married status', and most apparent...the vast majority had NOT READ or at least understood what the lady's ad had said about herself. I swear on my mother's grave, that one of the best written letters contained a photo of a guy with a fag dangling from his mouth....and the ad had had specified "Non smoker"!

The real capper was that almost ninety percent of the guys answered ALL three women's ads...although the 'requirements' stated in each couldn't have been more different.

The few dates they did go on, were for the most part disastrous, embarassing and occasionally downright funny...and these were from the "creme de la creme" of letters. In retrospect it's strikes me that the missing ingredient was simply "social skills"...those little voices inside your head that say "Don't go there, it's RUDE", or "Would YOU like to be treated this way"?

It may have just been nervousness, but one of the women was amazed at how many of the men immediately wanted to tell their life's history....almost in monologue form. She felt that if someone is so bereft of friendly casual conversation skills (on a first date) imagine how 'heavy' the REST of the dates would be.

For what it's worth, one of the women DID find a compatible partner this way (you've met them Peter) and thinks the whole process was a hoot. To the best of my knowledge the other two are still VERY single, and I know their opinions of the 'available guy' pool are not terribly high.

It's the kind of thing I'm fascinated by, and I think one of the problems is simply WHERE we have our first encounters. Going out on a date is simply an un-natural act for humans beyond the age of...say...23, and by the time you're in your forties and fifties, it's so un-natural that Jerry Falwell would probably find it illegal.

Let's say you're meeting the person for the first time (or close to it) at some restaurant. You're both nervous, and you fall back on what you know best. (maybe it's astrology...or your childhood...or your opinions on Gun control, abortion, religion, or other pleasant non-confrontational topics) Strikes me that having met and known the person from some previous MUTUAL-INTEREST situation, ie: a club, a regular group that frequents the same bar, pub quiz league, excursion group...whatever,...makes the 'date' feel more like a continuation of that other activity, although with arguably higher stakes. At least you can chat about stuff that you've both already experienced before...and the other people that you both know.

I had a (blind)"Date from Hell" once that I knew was going nowhere after 10 minutes, but I stuck it out through sheer lack of guts to terminate it in the restaurant. We hadn't even ordered the main course when I knew there would be absolutely NO future between myself and someone who announced her expressed hatred of cats! The fact that she also declared her vegetarianism, penchant for jogging, weight lifting, and admiration for conservative politics, would eventually have been hard to deal with, but I sat there like an idiot going 'uhuh, uhuh, uhuh..' when I was thinking, 'lady, I can't STAND you, and in a few hours it's gonna be MUTUAL'!

I know I didn't answer your question Peter (just saving you from telling me) but it's a RICH topic....you'll get some answers all right!

Cheers

Rick


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 08:21 PM

Definitely stay away from people who don't like cats or music!

Having said that, I count myself lucky that I'm not out there "dating" at my age. That's because I'm married to the most wonderfully loving woman - we just celebrated our 21st anniversary, and it keeps getting better.

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 08:56 PM

Har! Har! Oh, my God...dating! Great stories, Rick. In fact, lots of great stories on this thread.

When I want a really great date I go to the grocery store or the bulk food place, and buy Medjul dates. They're incredible. Honey dates aren't bad, either.

The other kind of dates (with women) I can hardly be bothered with at this point. One is usually better off to develop friendships through common interests or during work activities or something like that...and just not bother with the traditional "date" at all, IMO. It's much better going out with someone who's already a friend.

As for you, Carol, I agree entirely...I absolutely would not continue going out with a guy who proposed marriage on the 3rd date...or a woman either, for that matter!

SINSULL - Sounds like ya found a real gem there... :-)

My condolences to all who have suffered miserably in the search for the ineffable rewards of romance!

- LH


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 09:58 PM

When she invites you in and says, "My ex-husband is watching the kids, but he's cool with this, he'll sleep out on the couch."


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: ddw
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 09:59 PM

Back in the days between the big mistake and the Yorkshire Tornado, there used to be a really nice looking woman who worked in a building nearby. We'd meet almost daily on the street, exchange greetings, etc., until one day we struck up a conversation. I asked her if she'd like to have a drink and we went to a bar.

Things looked promising, we found several things we shared — music tastes being a biggie — and I asked her if she'd like to go to a concert with me.

I knew things were going off the rails when I went to pick her up and she had invited a friend along. The two of them spent the evening giggling at inside jokes, skipping hand-in-hand down the street in front of me and generally ignoring me.

Needless to say I didn't go back.

david


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: JenEllen
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 10:01 PM

It's the misery train, beep-beep, get on board.

There are always:
Self-confirmed commitment phobics who want to know 'when we're going out again'
Those that announce they don't wear underwear 'because they like the freedom' then complain about 'sticking' in hot weather
Those that call you by their ex's name and burst into tears
Those who ask if they can stay at your place until 'the heat blows over'
Those who either hate animals, or conversely spend the evening showing you wallet pictures of Fluffy, Muffy, and Woofles

A more productive exercise might be in remembering all the times that you yourself have been a horrible date, and practicing a tiny bit of forgiveness towards the human animal (except you, Sinsull, that is OUTRAGEOUS!! LOL) With that in mind, I have myself:

Forgotten little things like daylight savings time, and been unforgivably LATE
Rushed from work and arrived in various states of disarray (including cowshitted wellies) and spent a solid half-hour bitching about my day
Been caught staring out the window and wishing I was somewhere else--and admitted it
Tried horrible dinners at home (tomato soup incident notwithstanding)
Have uttered such killing phrases as: "Well, if that isn't the most asinine thing I've ever heard" and "So what? You're out on a weekend pass then?"

All culminating in the ultimate truth that if you aren't fit company for yourself, then you are not fit comapny for anyone else. The decision one has to make is whether or not they are willing to overlook the truly insignificant in a search for happiness, or whether they will wear the black arm band, cover all the mirrors, and stop the clock at the exact minute the romance died.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: kendall
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 10:11 PM

I have enough horror stories to make Steven King jealous!

A woman whom I had talked to on the phone and had forgotten about because she said I sounded too "Liberal",plus, she revealed that not only was she a republican, but, she also played the saxophone! called me again, and said she heard me on a local radio talk show. This time, she said I didn't sound so liberal, and we should meet. I've seen her a number of times and in most areas she is quite acceptable. BUT, her politics and her lack of interest in folk music make anything more than a casual friendship impossible.

Another woman told me on the first meeting that she had had two heart attacks and a stroke! I appreciate honesty, but, I need more than that for a relationship.

My favorite is the woman who called and wanted to invite me to lunch. I knew right off that it was a no brainer, but, we finished the lunch with small talk; and I do mean small talk. As we were parting in the parking lot, we were talking about the rules of dating; how they have changed, and I said, I dont do many rules, and I dont play games. Keep it simple; like, if I invite you for lunch, I pick up the tab, and if you invite me, YOU pick up the check. That struck a nerve! she had invited me, and, yet I picked up the tab. She said "Well, do you think I should have paid the check"? I said "Not at all, I'm comfortable with whatever works." Too late, she got her teeth into that, got defensive, and said, "Well, I dont have a penis!" I said. "I do; but, I've never tried to pay a bill with it." Not even a grin...no sense of humor at all. Anyway, I have about given up. Friendships are easier to manage. Now, if I feel like taking off to England, or anywhere else, I have no other to think about except my dog, and he loves the kennel he goes to.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Helen
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 10:22 PM

Little Hawk,

My favourite cryptic crossword clue is: "She, too great for words, can never get pregnant". The answer is "ineffable".

Is this what you meant when you said: "My condolences to all who have suffered miserably in the search for the ineffable rewards of romance!"

I guess disastrous dates usually are ineffable, in both senses of the word.

This is my favourite encounter when I briefly tried the dating agency method of meeting men, about a decade ago. The man was totally unmatched to my preferences, but was very nice, soft spoken, seemed genuine. I was making conversation, and because I worked in the library at the time I asked him if he read much.

He stopped dead in his tracks, looked into the distance for a considerably long pause, and then his face brightened up, like a light had been switched on. He said: "I read a book once! It was a motoring magazine!"

We went on with the date for form's sake, but I let him down as gently as possible when I told him I didn't think that we had a lot in common.

Helen


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 10:44 PM

Kendall, I thought our first date went well. I brought the beer, I picked up the check and Seamus likes me. We both sang in key and played the guitar, and I changed my opinion about12-strings. Where did it go wrong? Love and get well.

Seamus


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 11:09 PM

ladies....ever seen this rooom?


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Justa Picker
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 11:14 PM

...the first 5 seconds...the facial expression especially the eyes...and the body language... I don't even waste time with small talk; getting a table; muddling through a drink and bullshit pleasantries. I just ask if she wants a ride somewhere or should I hail a cab for her... and then I go home and grab a guitar - all the company I need.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: kendall
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 11:26 PM

Justa picker, my old fasioned manners wont allow that. Seamus, I dont have much luck with long distance romances. Sorry.

One more, then I'll quit. Somehow a dating service got a hold of me and kept calling. Trying to get me to sign up, but wouldn't give any details. I kept refusing. This went on for a while, finally, one of their women called and got rather personal, I thought. She asked if I was "seeing anyone" I answered, "Yes." she said "Is it serious"? that was it! I said "It will be if her husband finds out"! She said, "Oh my, oh dear." hung up and I havn't been bothered since.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 11:56 PM

I actually like JP's approach. At least that way, no woman will ever waste any time wondering if he's interested in her. And if she's as disinterested in him as he is in her, he'll save her having to waste an evening with him just to be polite, and she won't have to worry about being the one to break it to him.

And it beats the hell out of telling someone he'll call if he doesn't to. Not that that's ever happened to me, mind you. But then again, I don't really do the dating thing. Like Little Hawk, I prefer to get to know people as friends first.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 11:58 PM

(if he doesn't *intend to... sheesh.)


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Justa Picker
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 12:00 AM

..."he'll save her having to waste an evening with him just to be polite, and she won't have to worry about being the one to break it to him."...exactly Carol.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 12:06 AM

You know it's not going anywhere...when she said, "Oh you play Folk music...you must know "God didn't make Little green Apples", and "Honey"!!

I swear on my mother's grave that really happened. I developed an instant migraine, even though she was very attractive....

I can be bought...but not THAT easily. How do you tell someone you've just met that you think she's PROBABLY an idiot?!

Rick


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: sian, west wales
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 07:59 AM

You know it's not going anywhere...

... when he never drives over 30 mph, hunches over the steering wheel holding on with a death grip and staring at the road ahead with the look of a rabbit caught in the high-beams.

... when he's nice to you, but *not* nice to waiters.

... when he proposes on the *first* date!

Comedy films are also a good water shed - if you laugh at the same bits, you're on to something. If not ... cut and run.

sian


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 08:03 AM

Oh, so I should've waited till the fourth date, then...damn.

Another mystery solved.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: harpgirl
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 08:21 AM

...gee Peter, if your strategy for avoiding commitment stops working for you...you can always use mine...long distance romance...or we could combine our strategies and ensure our lonely old age!


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 08:34 AM

Oh God, some of these contributions reminded me of root canal dates I had completely forgotten. I had forgotten the one with MTed's woman, though this one said somewhere towards the end of the evening, "Actually I am getting back together with my husband as soon as we sort out the money". (She was a rich Rosedale lady, this a Toronto reference). yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 10:21 AM

Oh Boy, Sian, do you speak the truth!

Assuming that you're not so desperate for company that you'll put up with anything on two legs, these things should be paramount:

Forget having tons of similar interests....If he/she thinks that Bill Cosby talking to cute kids is funny, and you think it's nauseating.....the relationship will NOT work!

Find out what he/she laughs at.....listen closely to the answers....it's crucial.

Restaurants..another dead giveaway. If he/she treats waiters and waitresses with disdain.....you're next!

and my personal favourite: If someone has a penchant for treating "selected" people badly....it may take a while, but eventually you'll be one of the 'selected'.

Rick


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: gnu
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 10:42 AM

I was thinking of putting an ad in the personals but, since I believe in complete honesty, I'd have to be up front about the Bodhran, so there's no sense in wasting my money.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 10:49 AM

the question I see between the lines in all this is:

Since society seems to have a LOT of the people with the problems that various posters have noted: what happens to them? Even dorks, idiots, obsessive-compulsive sufferers, clingy-whiners, control freaks...etc., have needs.

Do we just pair them off with each other and watch the fireworks? Why do we have no mechanisms to explain to people what mistakes they are making in those horror stories above? Is it mostly too late by the time they get past 25 years old?

I have known men who mistreated women and 'expected' them to submit meekly; women who were so obviously 'trolling' for men that it was embarrassing..(and started 'training' for marriage any man she dated more than once). I have known people of BOTH sexes whose idea of a conversation is to recite information--sometimes personal and sometimes just data about 'stuff'.

Now, some of these folks are reasonably decent people, and I'd SO much like to sit down with them and explain to them what an awkward presentation they make, but...*sigh*...there is seldom any easy way to do that, and if you try, it becomes like feeding and petting a big shaggy dog....you find them bumping their nose at you for attention night & day.

....and, though **WE**, the posters to this thread, are all perfectly normal and sane, of course...*wry smile*....why do we have such ups & downs learning to relate and identify compatible partners?

I don't expect 'answers', of course....but I can't help musing


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 10:54 AM

Bill, having met you, I can safely speculate that I am quite possibly as 'abnormal' as you.

Now do you feel complimented or insulted!!!??

Cheers

Rick


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: SharonA
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 10:54 AM

..when you receive a letter of complaint from the guy! (the "you're not paying enough attention to me, you're not making enough of an effort" kind of letter) (It may be a way of getting a woman's attention, but not her attentions!)


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Trevor
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 11:45 AM

They start a sentence with 'Now I don't want to be pedantic.....'


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 11:47 AM

Rick....having mused on your comment throughly for oh, at least 3.217 seconds, I have concluded that 'normal' is not necessarily what one wants to strive for....therefore I acccept your lovely compliment! *grin*


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 11:52 AM

Bill, I tried that with my brother, who goes on endlessly about his failures, which in itself is a big turn-off, I told him! Anyway, to hide his insecurity, he comes off all hoity-toity and offended by any helpful suggestions, such as try to talk about someone other than yourself!*bg* THEN, he overreacts and gets paranoid that he might actually be doing what I said he was doing and overreacts the other way...for a day or two, then it's back to tried and true.

I've always been completely honest. I knew, always, on a first date if there was going to be any kind of a future and would say so. Only went out on a blind date, once, and he wound up being my second husband two weeks later! THAT daughter didn't want to wait! She was knocking on our doors from the day we met. He came to my house for dinner and wound up teaching me to waltz. He told me years later that I made him really nervous. Seems I was watching our feet, so I'd be sure to dance correctly, while he thought I was staring at the bulge in his jeans!**BG** I did have more experience in seduction by then, but I swear that hadn't even crossed my mind, on a first date!

kat


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 12:18 PM

I know both Bill and Rick, and they're both weird.

I'm convinced that finding a friend or a partner is based more on compatable weirdnesses than anything else. At least when we're older. If you can stand a certain type of strangeness in someone, fine. If you have the same sort of strangeness, it's perfect as long as you you don't get competitively strange.

I've noticed that my first impressions about people are often right, but every now and then, I'm really far off the mark. Unless someone dumps drugs on the table and explains each one, how a person acts at your initial meeting may be severely affected by nervousness. Babbling, refusal to talk at all, or a sense of prepared discussion topics or forced conversation can perhaps be signs of nervousness. Depending on whether you can tolerate those things long enough to work through them, you might still find someone under the nerves you might like.

I used to think there must be something wrong with me. Others would happily go out with someone primarily looking for a romantic relationship. I'd need to find someone I felt comfortable with, whom I first liked, shared dreams with and enjoyed being around. The guys I always ended up with were ones I was somewhat infatuated with. I suppose I thought I ought to be in love because everyone else was. The infatuation always wore off, and there was nothing left underneath. On the other hand, most of my best friends as an adult have been male. Many of those friendships have been far more rewarding than the romantic relationships. I think the ideal relationships are those with both elements - friendship/intellectual attraction and romance/physical attraction. Everybody differs as to which one of those things they look for (or notice) first and how much of each they need.

The weirdest "date" I ever had involved a guy who asked me to take a flight with him ("I just want some company - nothing else.") in his private airplane and landed on a lake in a very secluded spot and chased me around for about a half hour. I have no idea what might have happened if I hadn't been a much better swimmer. Anyway, don't get in private airplanes with people you don't know very well.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 12:33 PM

Compatible weirdness! LOL! Jeri - that's wonderful!!
I've just split up with someone, and Bill D's just said "Is it mostly too late by the time they get past 25 years old?". Oh bugger. I'm 26. ;)
But I've also become rather interested in a friend with very compatible weirdness. Maybe I can avoid this dating-fiasco-thingummy altogether...


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: M.Ted
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 01:02 PM

You know it isn't going to work out when they tell you they've never been married and have lived alone since college, 17 years ago--

You also know you have a problem when she sheepishly confesses that her name is not "Amy Martin", which is how she was introduced to you, and which you have been calling her for the month since you started dating, but is, in fact, "Elizabeth Hufnagel"--


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 01:51 PM

I was 33, and had been actively looking for a wife for about eight years. At that advanced age the ones I was interested in were all taken, it seemed. Or didn't reciprocate my interest in any big way.

I met a girl, just about the same age, divorced for several years. I was greatly interested, and she seemed to have more than passing interest.

On I think the second or maybe third date I took her to a rather good (as Indianapolis went in 1963) Italian restaurant. A little more than halfway through the Vitello Marsala, she leaned back and lit a cigarette.

With what I hoped was a humorous tone (exercising all my good adult judgment, indicating the plate before her), I said, "Eat that! That's money!" "Oh, I'm going to. I just thought I'd have a cigarette."

She put out the cig and ate it. What's more, she laughed. What's more than that, she married me anyway within six months, and it's been 38 years now.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: brid widder
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 02:20 PM

when half way through my second drink he asked whether my sterilisation op could be reversed !!


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: JenEllen
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 03:07 PM

LOL brid!!! Priceless!! How do know it's not going anywhere? When halfway through the first drink she tells you she's sterile!!


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: SharonA
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 03:21 PM

...when the guy says, "You have lupus? Then I don't want to get too involved with you; I'm afraid you might die on me."


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 03:23 PM

I was interested in a woman in the Chicago suburbs, who had an interest in folk music. I asked her to see Andrew Calhoun with me. The appointed time came, she didn't show up. I waited about an hour and went to the show anyway. I got an apologetic phone call the next day. She had never, ever stood anyone up before and felt sorry. I thought, lucky me. Never asked again.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 03:39 PM

LOL! What a great thread...

I am reminded of David C, in Toronto...one of the most inveterate womanizers I have ever met, and the master of the intricacies of dating and seduction.

David's face bore a subtle resemblance to a toad, and he was only about 5'6" tall, but what he didn't know about manipulating women is not worth knowing. He could write the definitive book on "hit and run" techniques.

Pretty well anything in a skirt (or whatever) would do for David. Seduction was his one and only objective. He was particularly eager to conquer new and unspoilt territory, so to speak, if you get my drift.

He would do anything, say anything, and go to any lengths to charm a girl...and it worked! He wined them and dined them, spent lots of money on them, took them out to fancy restaurants, listened with apparent fascination to their emotional concerns (while not caring a fig about them). He always dressed well and went the high class route when it came to entertainment.

All of this carefully planned strategy had but one objective...to bed the fair lass as soon as possible (perhaps 2 or 3 times at tbe most)... and then drop her like a hot potatoe, and set off in search of the next unwitting victim.

Unbelievable. I detested the little rat. What was so sickening about it was that he was so good at it, and that he managed to do it all without suffering a scratch to his own sensibilities in the process.

Ladies, beware...David is out there waiting to date you! I'm sure his life intention is to seduce every single woman in the western world...and half the married ones as well.

By the way, I knew a female who operated like David too, only she was a lot more obvious about it! It's a lot rarer in females, but it does happen sometimes.

- LH


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: CapriUni
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 03:41 PM

M.Ted wrote: "You know it isn't going to work out when they tell you they've never been married and have lived alone since college, 17 years ago--"

Waaaahhhh! :::Sob::: I'm 38, never been married, and have lived alone for the last five years (before that, I lived in my parents' home). Does that mean I'm destined to live alone the rest of my life, and die a lonely old woman with only my cats for company?

I've been disabled since birth, and have lived with my parents because until the last decade or so, barrier-free housing was just not available, or not affordable. As soon as the oportunity arose, I moved 450 miles away in order to make a new life for myself, and start fresh.

But I'm smart, funny, kind, creative and can make several varieties of really good noodle and vegetable soup -- if you like spicy food.

I know I'm not perfect... my sheltered life has left me more emotionally immature than others my age (if a real estate agent were writing my personal, she'd say "young at heart" ;-)). But shouldn't my good qualities count for something? I'm not looking for perfect... all I want is someone whose imperfections balance out with mine.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: gnu
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 03:49 PM

I think M.Ted meant that the longer a person lives alone the more "set in their ways" they get. Such that they aren't good at accepting the flaws of others or the compromises one has to make in "living together". Or, perhaps, they haven't been able to make a commitment because they are too retentive or unyielding.

I'm sure you will have no problems in this regard CapriUni.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: SharonA
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 03:50 PM

CapriUni: Have you tried the various disabled-singles dating services? I have a friend who was a thalidamide baby, who had great success with one such program. Last I heard, he was still happily married to the woman he met through the dating service!


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Desdemona
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 03:58 PM

You guys are killing me here; I have nothing worthy of inclusion here! Let's just say I'm glad I got married young (and the more I read, the better he looks to me!)!


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 04:14 PM

Compatible weirdnesses. Ayuh. That's 'Mudge and me.

I should have realized earlier in the 10 year marriage with my ex-husband that it wasn't gonna work out. We not only never got rid of duplicate books or LPs, but neither of us ever learned the other's musical repertoire.

Tom and I, BTW, DID spend our first night together talking -- and we still haven't run out of things to talk about after 21+ years.

Linn


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 04:17 PM

CapriUni, if it makes you feel any better, I'm 46 and don't have any cats. I'm pretty happy, too.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: gnu
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 04:25 PM

I don't mean to be the bearer BUT... if part of a man's agenda is having kids, cat owners are out.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: GUEST,Lyle
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 04:49 PM

Caution - bit of thread drift here,

BUT

It seems to me that within this thread are about 100 folk songs just waiting to be written!

Lyle


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 05:02 PM

Hey, I've also never been married, although I can't claim to have been living alone for the whole of the last 3 decades...just for the lion's share of it.

But it's okay, I'm not looking for dates anyhow...

When I suggest to some people that the main point and culminating experience of life is NOT in finding a romantic partner, they look at me strangely...then they say, "Oh, it's making money right?" "Nope." "Having a career?" "Nope." "Being successful or famous?" "Nope."

They figure I'm pretty weird... :-)

- LH


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: gnu
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 05:07 PM

When she makes a comment on the size of your workboots. Actually happened with a client of mine. Now, perhaps I am just naive or old fashioned, but I don't think that's a great way to let a man know your interested. Any woman who can tell the actual size of my "workboots" at a glance is far more "educated" than I care to get involved with.

Which minds me of the fellow that didn't know which girl to marry. He gave each of three $5000 to do with it what they may. #1 got a makeover, breast implants, sexy wardrobe, the works, so as to please him. #2 got sporting goods of all types and and a big screen TV. #3 got an investment portfolio with excellent returns so that they would have a nest egg. Who did he pick ? The one with the big tits.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: harpgirl
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 05:13 PM

BTW, the single most common denominator among too-long single folks according to one expert, Herbert Strean, is having had overly controling parents!!!


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 05:15 PM

You try singing together and the harmonies don't work.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: M.Ted
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 05:35 PM

CapriUni--first of all, you didn't live completely *alone* for all that time(living with family is not living alone), and second, your living arrangements were related to circumstances, not purely a matter of choice--as for me, no one wishes you more success with everything in your life than I do--


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 05:46 PM

Hey, harpgirl...you may be dead right! My parents were among the world's most controlling ever, and I was the ONLY child, so I got hit with all of it (ouch!).

I have NEVER married (at 52) despite being a lifelong romantic with strongly monogamous tendencies. I sincerely doubt that I ever will.

But what's this about "too-long single folks"??? What's wrong with being single anyway? Who says everyone HAS to marry?

Like I said, it's not the main point of life anyway. Well, not for me. I did think it was the main point of life when I was younger and less experienced.

- LH


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: M.Ted
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 06:11 PM

No one is saying anything against long time single people--Only against long time single people who allow you believe that they are looking for the right person to settle down with, when they are really already settled down--


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: gnu
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 06:14 PM

Or have just settled.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 06:34 PM

Yeah, harpgirl, you're right about that. Two weeks after I left home at 18, I was in my first of many domestic relationships.....and my parents had NO control over my actions from about the age of 10. Figgers.

Rick


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 06:44 PM

Boy, Rick, there are days when I really envy you! :-) I shoulda done exactly what you did. Ah well...

- LH


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Desdemona
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 06:56 PM

I think it's all too easy for people who've made a particular lifestyle choice to (often inadvertently, I'm sure) narrow their circle of acquaintance to others in similar circumstances. I'm 37, married nearly 16 years, w/3 kids; I have lots of friends who are also married w/kids, BUT I also have lots of single friends, unmarried w/partner (either sex) friends, couples without kids friends, friends whose kids have grown & gone, grandparent friends, college student friends, etc, etc....(y'all get my point, methinks!).

It's important to maintain relationships of all sorts with a wide variety of people; otherwise life would be so much less interesting & we'd miss out on learning a lot! A big part of being a "grown up" of any age is understanding what is right for you, and letting others make those choices for themselves! People who insist that all their friends MUST settle down & pair off in order to be happy do them a disservice; just as those who choose not to make babies have a right not to be continually told how they "should" do or they'll be sorry later, or are selfish, etc.

Vive les differences, sez I!


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Helen
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 07:03 PM

For a really enlightening read about dating, from a phuysiological and anthropological viewpoint, as well as from the angle of finding the right person to share your life with:

Dr Winnifred Cutler, Searching for Courtship. http://www.athenainstitute.com/sfc.html

The blurb says it is a book for women, but having read and re-read it I think it is useful for everyone.

I've lent out my copy of this to every woman I know who has ever expressed bewilderment over dating or an interest in how to make it work out for the best.

Usual disclaimers: no interest in the company, blah blah

Helen


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 07:04 PM

Right on, Des.

- LH


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Mickey191
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 07:13 PM

She says, "Don't touch me."


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: CapriUni
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 07:20 PM

SharonA --

No, I've not tried disabled singles services. But that's because I'm wary of being pigeonholed into a type on the one hand, and getting into an abusive relationship on the other (There are people who are sexually attracted to disabled people [called "devotees"] who get off on the power they can wield in the relationship).

When I was in college, there was a youngish paraplegic man who was the son of one of staffmembers there... so ruggedly handsome that even the straight men turned their heads when he came in the room. He didn't go to school there, but he would sometimes come in to visit his mother or to study in the library. There were two young women in my dorm who kept trying to get me and another disabled dormmate to go out with him, saying he was so much my "type" (the only thing we had in common is that we both use wheelchairs). My dormmate did give in to their "suggestion", briefly, and went out on a few dates with him, but it just led to awkward embarrassment on both sides.

It seemed to me to be pretty clear that these two were attracted to him themselves, but held to the belief that the disabled should only go out with their "own kind" ... and the prejudice they showed just sickened me (they'd feign friendship in order to bum a ride to school with us in the security car when it was snowing, and ingore, or say snide side comments about us within our hearing the rest of the time).

The memory of that experience just left a sour taste in my mouth, and I'd rather use a singles service open to the "general public".

M.Ted -- I know my life history is the result of circumstance, rather than a set of personal flaws. The problem is figuring out how to be seen as a whole person, rather than a set of catagories labeled as "marginal", or "other".

I'm a subscriber to an online singles service now, that shows you potentional matches, and the percentage of compatibility. So far, most of what I've gotten has been 99%, and almost to a man, the missing 1% has been that they're not interested in meeting someone who is disabled. Makes me wonder if guys are looking at my ad, see that I'm disabled, and don't read any further to my natural wit, charm, and humor.... I can't know for sure, of course, but it's a frustrating, nagging thought in the back of my mind. And it also leads me to wonder if that is happening in the three dimensional world as well.

Oh, and so that my contributions to this thread consist of more than just me whining about being alone:

You know it's not going anywhere when:

A man replies to your personal ad with (and only with): "I ned ur love. My life deepens on it!"

(Call me picky. But I will not bother with any man that can not be bothered to spell out "you" and "your". If I will not be seen as a whole person, I at least deserve the dignity of a whole word! :-P)


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 07:39 PM

Simplest indicator I know was shared by my good friend Gene, quite a devoted blues guitar player. He knew an otherwise hopeful relationship was headed nowhere when the lady explained that she didn't like it when he bent the strings. (After all, this is Mudcat; we have to have SOME music in here.)

I had a variant of the astrology deal where the lady consulted the I Ching to see what she should do. Either one is a great excuse to blow off your own responsibility for making decisions and just enjoy life as a loose cannon.

Bottom line, though, is it's one thing to rationally compile lists of indicators and another thing to pay attention to that list; that's probably why I broke up with my totally compatible soul mate and will probably stay with my incompatible other half forever, or until death do us part, whichever happens first.

CC


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: hobbitwoman
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 07:44 PM

Little Hawk asked, "What's wrong with being single??"

After reading this thread, I'd say nothing - it sounds like the way to go to me!! I haven't had a date in 26 yrs. - granted, I was married for 15 of them but that's beside the point. Been single again for 11 and I'm happy! Oh, and my late husband did ask me to marry him on the third date - but being a mature 20 yr. old at the time, I made him wait another week before I said yes!

Don't think I'll ever get married again - MUCH too set in my ways - but if I do, it will be to a man who loves folk music, cats... and can make me laugh!!

Do I live alone? Not really! I have the afore-mentioned cat, and a 25 yr. old son who moved out once for 3 months, ran out of clean clothes, moved back in again and shows no sign of leaving! So I guess that's not alone.

Annie


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: kendall
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 08:24 PM

I have a friend who used to be in the used car business. He had a saying, "There is an ass for every seat." No matter how beat up it is, someone will buy it.

I believe that it is mostly a matter of appropriate or inappropriate.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Peg
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 09:53 AM

CapriUni; I think you should be more optimistic. Being handicapped need not leave you out of the love game, any more than being able-bodied means you;re automatically in it.

I am similar to you in that I am 38, have a lot of cats, live alone, and have no man in my life. But I am also able-bodied (and thankful). And not terribly lonely, really. It's kind of like assuming that peope who have lots of money must be happier than those of us who don't. I think we have all seen that is not true.

The last couple of men I have been involved with have simply been unavailable; one is married and in an open marriage; so I can only ever have one small compartment of his life...the other got very suddenly married not long after we started seeing each other (to a woman in another country who he introduced in conversation as "the girl I'm seeing," and with whom he had an open relationship).

The personals scene seems so unnatural to me. I have tried it a few times. I get overwhelmed by so many replies and don't end up calling any of them. Have been chatting with a few guys online--but typed conversation is not an effective barometer of how well you might actually communicate, IMHO.

I have received replies to my online personal ads with erotic love poetry contained therein, with long passionate missives about how I am the only one for them, etc etc. This is scary.

peg


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: SharonA
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 10:42 AM

CapriUni: I surely can understand not wanting to be pigeonholed, and I was unaware of the "devotee" problem (thanks for the heads-up about that!). Just because the disabled-singles dating service worked for one person I know certainly doesn't mean it's right for everyone. Sorry!

Personally, I'm uncomfortable with dating services and personal ads, for the reasons mentioned above. I've flitted in and out of local "themed" singles groups, where at least you can chat with people face-to-face in a casual setting without the sense of being "on a mission". There's a local group that meets once a month for a walk through a state park and also arranges get-togethers such as camping trips, so that one's been enjoyable as a means of getting out and doing things as well as a means of meeting people.

As a person who has a couple of chronic diseases, my dilemma is a bit different from Capri's: I appear to be able-bodied but I'm not! When I have a lupus "flare-up" and the arthritic symptoms kick in and I start hobbling as if I'm twice as old as I am, it's a definite turn-off to potential partners (not surprisingly!). I think it sometimes makes them feel betrayed somehow, too, even though I'm up-front with everyone about my medical problems. But I'm starting to take the attitude that if the guy isn't interested enough in me to do a little reading about my diseases (which is easy enough to do on www.webmd and similar sites), then I know it's not going anywhere.

Sharon


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 12:18 PM

I thought once of placing a personals ad in the Barrie Examiner for a lonely sheep looking for male companionship, just to see who would respond. My friend Mike and I were laughing about it, but we never went ahead with the ad (We're too cheap!). I bet it would have gotten a few responses, and I imagine they would have been a hoot to read.

- LH


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: CapriUni
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 01:56 PM

Sharon --

I know that personals are an unnatural way to meet, but since I don't drive or work outside my home, I don't have much opportunity to easily meet people face to face... even a simple trip to the library needs to be planned a day or two in advance. So I use email and internet forums to 'screen' people. If there is interest and 'clicking' going on that lasts a while, then I'll take the effort to plan out where and when we should meet, rather then spend several hours getting ready only to go through a blind date that dies in ten minutes and leaves a sour taste in my mouth (And perhaps leaves me in a place where there is no wheelchair accessible bathroom)....

Since I am also very verbal in 3-d space, I think I come across even more as my real self in cyberspace than a first meeting in the open air -- people see my mind before they see my hardware. If a guy can't get interested in me in writing, chances are he won't like me any more in person.

I have a few techniques I use to make up for the lack of context in electronic meeting:

1) give links to my favorite web pages, newsgroups, and forums (including Mudcat), and ask for the same from a new contact... that way, he can see how I act toward others before I met him, and vice-versa...

2) arranging to "meet" in an on-line chat room that focuses on a shared interest we both (claim) to have -- that way, we can chat with each other without having to talk only to each other (almost like going out to a club)

3) [And this last one takes a lot of trust and patience... if you can get through this, you have a clue that it might be for real] Work on a creative project together: take turns writing scenes in a story (for example) with one of you coming up with a problem, and the next person coming up with a solution, and a new problem -- a bit like the exercise Spartacus posted here. This really brings your different thinking and problem solving styles to the surface. If the two of you can respond with flexibility and creativity to the unexpected directions your 'partner' will take the project in, there's at least a decent chance you'll be able to do the same in real life.

Health Warning: this excercise can also bring your own nasty character flaws to the surface. If you are not ready to look under the rocks in your own soul to see what's crawling there, do not attempt!

~~~

Generally, I am very happy with my life as a single woman (I also live with cats >^..^<), but it has been a long, cold lonely winter (RIP, George Harrison). Besides the onslaught of September 11, death took some dear friends and family members in 2001, and in the quiet moments of my day, I often hear one phrase running on the tape loop of my mind: "I need a hug".

My kittles love me dearly, and I them, but their front legs are just too short for them to give me what I need... though they try. So I've been taking what initiative I can to try and remedy this situation, and in the process, I've recently seen how much prejudice there is out there against the disabled (often being non-disabled and of a certain age are the only qualifications these men ask for), even in men that otherwise come across as intelligent, articulate, and thoughtful... no great loss, since even if I weren't disabled, I wouldn't want to hang out with such men, anyway. But it gets discouraging (I honestly thought we were getting past all that explitive stuff), and yesterday, my patience temporarily ran out...


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: SharonA
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 02:11 PM

CapriUni: As long as there's testosterone, we'll never get past all that $#%& !!! (...maybe some of it, but never all...)


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: kendall
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 02:46 PM

Being attracted to unavailable women/men seems to be quite common. Maybe there is something to this Oedipus complex?


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 04:59 PM

They're married and unavailable and you don't even fancy them.....

Kitty

PS if anyone knows otherwise, you can post to the "you know it's going somewhere" thread!


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 07:22 PM

Boy, I am reading some distrubing generalisations and nasty assumptions about either sexes; what seemed like a funny thread, at first, seems to have become quite raw, poignant, sad, etc.

CapriUni, thank you for your candidacy; I would imagine these are painful things to write about. I admire your courage and honesty. Hugs are important; human touch is important. I sure wish we did have a Mudcat Central 3D community; hugs would abound!

kat


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Amergin
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 07:25 PM

Katdarling....I thought we did have one....weren't we all going to move in with you?


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 07:40 PM

Soon as I get those 100 acres, Nathandarlin':-) Think that'll give us enough room?


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: GUEST,ET
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 09:00 PM

Little Hawk - Who has to go to the expense of actually putting the ad in? Just, PLEASE< PLEASE, do some late-night brainstorming (with friends or here) and write up the responses you would have gotten!

I (and probably everyone else on this thread) want to hear that ditty!!!! After all, who was it (Heinlein?) said never distinguish a good lie with any portion of truth? ET


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 10:11 PM

Good point, ET. I think Spaw could come up with some beauties on that concept, if we could only entice him out to play. I'm too tired for more brainstorming tonight.

- LH


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: CapriUni
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 10:40 PM

Kat, when you wrote:

"Thank you for your candidacy" I thought: I'm not running for anything!

But on second thought... maybe I am. ;-)

It's not painful to write about, though... more painful to white knuckle it and pretend that everything is hunky-dory... after all, I am a writer!

Yeah, hugs are important, and I've been told mine are dangerous! But I don't believe it. ;-) [so is music -- and you know those rafters would ring!] Say, 'Catters, watcha say we start up a collection for Kat's hundred acres (and Pooh and Piglet could come, too!)?

Peg (sorry I didn't reply to this earlier), you wrote: "Being handicapped need not leave you out of the love game, any more than being able-bodied means you're automatically in it. "

Oh, I never meant to imply that it did... I was simply replying to M.Ted's: "You know it isn't going to work out when they tell you they've never been married and have lived alone since college, 17 years ago--", trying to make the point that such a broad catagory cuts out a lot of people, at least a few of whom might make wonderful partners (myself included). I don't ask for much... only someone who will recognize my genius (and someone who has a genius I can recognize!) ;-).

But we seem to be living what I call a "sit-com culture" that devides people into distinct groups, and paints them with broad brushes. Constantly bumping into the consequences of that is rather frustrating. That's all.

For what it's worth, I am really deeply grateful to have grown up with a disability, because it's something that shaped my personality in many positive ways, among which:

1) It's given me a strong and abiding faith in the basic goodness and generosity of people (If you can go through your days and weeks without having to ask for help, it may be easy to believe that no one would give that help even if you did ask for it... but in all my years, no matter what scrape I've found myself in, big or small, there was always someone who was willing to help me out, often without my asking).

2) It freed me from much of that nasty teen-aged peer pressure -- because I couldn't be just like my peers in small ways, and I still had many friends, I knew I didn't need to be like my peers in bigger ways. So I just didn't feel the pressure to drink or do drugs or sex, or...

3) It gave me an incentive to really play with language, and led me directly to being a writer.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: SharonA
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 10:58 AM

...when the guy thanks you profusely because dating you has made him realize that he wants to marry some other woman to whom he's just proposed.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 11:53 AM

Sounds like a dolt. Aren't you glad he didn't ask you?


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: CapriUni
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 12:35 PM

LOL!! Yeah, that would be a clue...


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 01:46 PM

CU, I thought the same thing when I wrote that, but I liked it better than "thank you for being so candid."**BG** Perhaps it should have been "candidness." Ah, well, I like to use language differently.:-)

I thought some of you might enjoy a couple of the things in this list: old posting


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: M.Ted
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 01:50 PM

Is it better to find out when they thank you profusely, or when you get a wedding invitation?


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 02:11 PM

How about neither?


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 02:14 PM

Anyway, there's no reason for her to know that she was the reason he decided to marry someone else. Anyone with a sense of honor, and compassion for the feelings of others will know this. So she's lucky she didn't marry someone who is that insensitive and lacking in integrity.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: SharonA
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 02:16 PM

MTed: A wedding invitation would've been easier to ignore. And the guy had the noive to tell me this at a party at his sister's... and yes, the fiancee was at the party too!!! You're absolutely right, Carol; "dolt" is just the word!

Sharon the Single But Doltless


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: CapriUni
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 03:10 PM

Kat --

Yes... According to the dictionary, the word is "Candidness"... but that doesn't have the same ring to it, does it? ;-)

Sorry for thread drift. Now, back to the regularly scheduled subject:

You know it will never go any further when it starts as an Instant Message[tm] with these words:

"Are you a hot babe?"


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: SharonA
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 03:19 PM

I'd thought the word was "candor". Can "candor" and "candidness" be used interchangeably?


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: JenEllen
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 03:37 PM

I thought it was candor as well, but some of the woids that folks'll come up with when they are being candidnacious...*bg*

How about when he goes to a session with you (could be a good thing, granted) and then grins and whispers in your ear "Hey, I know this one...Whiskey In the Jar...that's the one that Metallica wrote..." sigh.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 04:20 PM

Candor: (kaen dEr)

   Definition 1. the quality of openness, honesty, and straightforwardness in expression.

   Example   Her candor made me trust her, unfortunately.

   Synonyms   openness {open (adj 5)} , straightforwardness {straightforward (adj 1)} , sincerity , frankness {frank1 (adj 1)} , openheartedness {openhearted (1)}

   Crossref. Syn.   honesty

   Similar Words   plain dealing , directness {direct (adj)} , explicitness {explicit (adj)} , bluntness {blunt (adj)} , truthfulness {truthful} , forthrightness {forthright (adj)} , honesty    Definition 2. lack of bias; fair-mindedness.    Synonyms   candidness {candid (adj 3)} , impartiality {impartial} , fairness {fair1 (adj 1)} , fair-mindedness {fair-minded}    Similar Words   equitableness {equitable} , square shooting {square shooter} , evenhandedness {evenhanded} , justness ,


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: CapriUni
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 08:38 PM

re: the vocabulary discussion --

You know it isn't going to work well when he tells you you must be lonely because you use too many big words to have a normal conversation with anyone.

(the biggest word I used with this particular fellow was "intellectually")

I'd breathe a sigh of relief... but that wasn't even a close call!


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: kendall
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 10:10 PM

About 20 years ago a woman I was quite fond of told me it wouldn't work because I wasn't evil enough. There was nothing to "fix". We have remained close friends all these years, but she married a "challenge" and he screwed her over big time. Whenever I see some broken hearted woman in Dear Abby complaining that all men are bastards, this one did this and that one did that, I'm tempted to reply, "Wake up, stop seeking out the same kind of man"! I firmly believe that women like that dont really want a good man; good men are boring, dont give them a second look. Now, ladies, I speak from a man's point of view, and, I'm sure you can say the same about men. I repeat, it's not so much a matter of good and bad, but, more a matter of "appropriate" or "inappropriate" You may sowsle* it around all you want; water and oil simply do not mix.

* to mix or stir


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 10:28 PM

Yeah, Kendall...It's interesting to browse through a few romance novels, and see what the "ideal" man is, apparently, to the women who buy those novels...

He's tall and mysterious, and usually rich. He's a rascal. He's sardonic, troublesome, and appears to be a bad risk, but he's very good looking and fascinating at the same time. The poor girl can't stand his arrogant self-assurance, but she finds herself irresistably drawn to him nonetheless...

Now in real life this kind of guy (rare as hen's teeth, they are) is usually exactly what you would expect him to be...an egomaniacal jerk! But in romance novels he turns out ultimately to be an absolutely sterling character, a hero, and the faithful love of her life...after driving her mad for 100 pages with his sardonic and mysterious behaviour.

It may be these crazy romance novels that are leading all those poor girls astray, and causing them to end up with jerks! Something should be done.... :-)

- LH


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Amergin
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 10:35 PM

sounds like you have read quite alot of them, LH.....


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 10:37 PM

Ah, but he is only that way because his heart was once broken and he dare never risk it, again, until...she comes along, then she must break through his reserve to challenge him to lay bare his soul and courageously open his heart so that they may ride off into the sunset together, forever bound in happiness.

It's the same thing as telly did to woman in all men thinking each should be a "Donna Reed." We've done it to ourselves, as a society, PLUS some just get off on escapist plots. Most women know life is nt like the romance novels, but a little dreaming doesn't usually hurt. and I do speak in all candidness, not being one bit candidnatious!**BG**


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 10:41 PM

I've never read a romance novel in my life, but I've ended up with one or two less than sterling characters. And not on purpose, either.

'splain that to me Lucy


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 10:43 PM

Oops! Did I say Lucy? I meant LH.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: kendall
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 10:52 PM

Know where it all starts? Fairy Tales! It's never a matter of "Them" it is always "Us" so many people are unwilling or unable to admit that it is a matter of dynamics. We should always ask of ourselves, "What is/was MY role in this"?


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 11:39 PM

This degree of candidnacity is a bit more than I had expectatated, and it has left me feeling a bit disorientated! Why can't you people cognitiate and mentalitize more clarificaciously around here and just get striaghtaways to the mainpointedness of the matter?

Yeah, I skimmed through a whole bunch of romance novels that were lying around the place last year...western ones, gothic ones, Elizabethan ones, etc. Hilarious stuff! I recommend doing this now and then to give the gray cells a little comic relief.

Carol - EVERYONE has ended up with one or two less than sterling characters! Romance novels are clearly not the entire reason for it, but I wonder if they are a significant contributing factor? Ever seen "Romancing The Stone"? Great movie.

"Joan Wilder??? THE Joan Wilder???!!!"

- LH


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 10:47 PM

I knew things were over when I was supposed to pick up my significant other's son to go to a music session. There was a break down in communication between her, the ex, and the son (age 7, so not his fault) and I suddenly got caught in the middle. A voice in the back of my head said, "I don't want to do this anymore." She suggested a couple weeks later that we break up, I just said, "OK." I knew things were changing when the tune in my head when I was with her changed from "45 Years, " to alternating between Richard Thompson's "Walking on a Wire" to Roy Harper's "I'll see you again."


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: JudyR
Date: 03 Mar 02 - 12:59 AM

You know it's not going to go anywhere after a date or two, when you finally get the nerve to drop some bit of treasured history about yourself -- like, that you used to go down to the Appalachians to hear mountain music, or you remember when every street corner in D.C. had black blues singers -- and he counters with something about himself. Like that he heard soul singers at some club a coupla times. Or all the time. Or that his friend is in the music business. Or that, hey, Judy Collins was great. Or whatever.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: M.Ted
Date: 03 Mar 02 - 01:44 AM

Tell us about the blues singers, Judy!


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: kendall
Date: 03 Mar 02 - 09:01 AM

...you gotta talk my language, it's the only one I know...George Ward.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: kendall
Date: 03 Mar 02 - 09:19 AM

when she says "As a matter of fact, I AM a republican, AND I play the Saxophone! True story.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 03 Mar 02 - 09:22 AM

Because I *do* have something to contribute here, does that mean I'm geezing??? :D

Woah...

On the to the chase: I not only dated, but completely ignored the following signs and got heavily involved with people who said the following:

"I was involved with a woman who was so completely in tune with me that her every move followed my own. She was like my shadow. I hope to have that again with you"

....He turned out to be a control freak who *expected* his mate to do and say everything his ex had done and said, which was everything he *wanted* her to do and say. A woman who dumped him, and now I know why. I followed suit and dumped him as well (in record time, I might add...must be I was getting persnickety by then).

"Playing pool and going to the bar isn't important to me anymore"

....Yeah, sure...until the bloom was off the relationship. Then, he lived there once again, and I was completely alone in a "relationship". It was the worst of both worlds, being involved with someone you never saw. You can't date when you're in a commited relationship, and so you have all the loneliness of someone who is single without hope of doing anything about it, unless...I dumped him. And so, I did...unfortunately for the guy described above (live and learn).

"I think it's in mens natures to play the field. I just can't handle the thought of my woman with another man, so, if it can't be a one way option only, I'll be faithful to make it fair."

This same guy came up with the term "Geographical Batchelor" to describe how a man, if a certain number of miles away from his mate, was no longer confined by his commitments.

....This blew up too, and I ended up with the guy listed above.

There is hope however!! I figured out some things I was doing wrong, and now I am a persnickety choosey old lady. I found a man who is actually in tune with me, and I with him, and does not treat me like window dressing to his own life or like property. How refreshing. It's been a few years now, and all is more than well with us.

Those other guys are now other peoples problems, and I am ecstatically happy in my own circumstances. :::contented sigh:::

So, being a picky, choosy, finicky old lady paid off in the long run. :D

Good luck to all you young types. Learn to be persnickety while your young, and maybe you can save yourselves some of the heartache we older folks put ourselves through until we became crotchity and picky.


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: JudyR
Date: 03 Mar 02 - 05:21 PM

That's funny, M.Ted! ;)

So now you've caught me in an exaggeration!! Oh, dear! No, truly -- I cannot say it was "every" street corner in D.C., but just those around the Capitol, and OK, I have just one memory of it. It was, I think, 1972, the first year I attended the American Folklife Festival on the Mall. I remember walking back from a diner, and seeing, of all things, old men in caps playing black bottleneck blues on the street corners around the White House. The "real" stuff -- Delta blues! Stuff I'd heard on record and never thought I'd come close to back in boring old L.A.. It floored me that there were places in this country to tap into authenticity that I'd never suspected. And I've never forgotten it.

And that long answer is why I probably could be a boring date!


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Subject: RE: You Know It's Not Going Anywhere When...
From: JudyR
Date: 03 Mar 02 - 05:24 PM

I should also say that I thought (or heard) they'd come up from the south to earn a "living" this way. But that I don't know. And how long this continued, I also don't know. And of course, this gets us way off subject. But geez, M.Ted, the other guys don't ask ;) (just kidding!)


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