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home recording techniques....

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Spartacus 19 Feb 02 - 04:33 PM
GUEST 19 Feb 02 - 07:18 PM
harpmaker 19 Feb 02 - 07:24 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Feb 02 - 08:09 PM
michaelr 19 Feb 02 - 08:13 PM
harpmaker 19 Feb 02 - 08:23 PM
GUEST,Billy 20 Feb 02 - 01:18 AM
Kaleea 20 Feb 02 - 01:24 AM
GUEST 20 Feb 02 - 07:11 AM
Dave Bryant 20 Feb 02 - 08:46 AM
Mooh 20 Feb 02 - 08:52 AM
Spartacus 20 Feb 02 - 09:09 AM
GUEST,AR282 20 Feb 02 - 11:51 AM
GUEST,Suncrest Tina 20 Feb 02 - 04:26 PM
Tweed 20 Feb 02 - 07:41 PM
Spartacus 21 Feb 02 - 02:32 PM
Tweed 21 Feb 02 - 06:01 PM
GUEST,bayou sam 04 Apr 02 - 07:57 PM
Amos 04 Apr 02 - 11:36 PM
Bert 05 Apr 02 - 03:33 AM
Jerry Rasmussen 05 Apr 02 - 04:31 AM
Charley Noble 05 Apr 02 - 08:57 AM
Jerry Rasmussen 05 Apr 02 - 09:02 AM
GUEST,Tweed 05 Apr 02 - 11:34 AM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Apr 02 - 11:54 AM
GUEST,Wyowoman at Work 05 Apr 02 - 12:16 PM
GUEST,Tweed at work.. 05 Apr 02 - 01:33 PM
treewind 05 Apr 02 - 02:38 PM
Charley Noble 05 Apr 02 - 05:11 PM
Ian Darby 05 Apr 02 - 06:58 PM
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Subject: home recording techniques....
From: Spartacus
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 04:33 PM

This might be educational (for me)...I recorded a little demo at home in my sauna using a 58 for vocal, an AKG c-1000s for instruments, and an old Yamaha four-track. I did a little remastering at a friends house using vegas software. I found mic placement on the guitars to be best either right at the top left hand side of the guitar (if you are right handed and looking down at the guitar) or at the bottom of the saddle, about an inch or two away. Whos got comparisons or other techniqes?


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 07:18 PM

I'll refresh this one more time,just to see if anyone bites...


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: harpmaker
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 07:24 PM

A mate of mine comes round to record with a Gibby J45 that plugs straight into the mixer, then records into Vagas. Sounds fantasticly clear with ex' tone. You could try it with any guitar that plugs in. (DI) John.


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 08:09 PM

I'm inclined to think that,if standing in front of the mike and playing straight through was good enough for the Carter Family, it's good enough for anyone.


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 08:13 PM

I'd like some info on Vegas, por favor?


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: harpmaker
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 08:23 PM

McGrath, sometimes plectrum noise I found was a problem. If your after clear multitrack events. John.


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: GUEST,Billy
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 01:18 AM

For recording, point the (unidirectional) mic at the top of the fretboard.


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: Kaleea
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 01:24 AM

What about geting rid of the oftimes bothersome "scratching" noise of the pick when strumming fast? And the hum, hmmmmmmmmmmmm?


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 07:11 AM

pa guys always tell me to point the mike at the top right of the body of the guitar (ie near the 12th freton the 1st-string side)


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 08:46 AM

McGrath, I'm sure that you could manage to record like that - even on to one of Thomas Alva Edison's original aluminium foil cylinders, without any loss of quality - it would probably enhance the tone.


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: Mooh
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 08:52 AM

I generally like mine pointed at the fretboard, at about the 14th fret and angled slightly towards the hole. That will change slightly depending on the guitar and the mic.

If I have the luxury of two mics, the second will be placed out about 12 inches and pointed at the bridge, again angled slightly toward the hole.

For another perspective try one pointed down from beside or over your head, but try not to make too many vocal noises. This will sometimes provide a nice "as you hear it" sound and a bit of depth when mixed with other mics.

There are many other variables, but that's it for me in a nutshell.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: Spartacus
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 09:09 AM

Michael, Vegas is recording and editing software for home studio types.www.sonicfoundry.com/ Harpmaker, I had alot of trouble going through my board. (mackie 808s) I could'nt get the levels between the vocal and the instrument mic's to even out on the recording-lots of distortion or too quiet....


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 11:51 AM

I work semi-professionally as a recording engineer, I have always placed the mic a foot back and pointed between the hole and the bridge. You get a full but bright sound. I don't understand pointing the mic at the fretboard that some people mentioned. I don't see how that could possible sound any good. Also don't point the mic at the hole.


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: GUEST,Suncrest Tina
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 04:26 PM

Pressure Zone Microphones are superb and placement of the mike is just not an issue. They are ridiculously cheap and idiot proof. They don't even look like a microphone! A flat piece of plastic about 3.5 ins square. They only work when placed on a flat surface. Fasten a 12" square piece of plywood on a mic stand, fasten the PZM mike to the piece of ply - great for ambient recording and for recording "moving" instruments (Concertinas + Left hand of melodeons) Tandy used to make 2 different models but now they just sell one. Fantastic value for money.


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: Tweed
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 07:41 PM

Right on McGrath!

At first I just recorded into the built in monitor mike on the PC with the window unit AC on and the ceiling fan on medium, which gave me that static AM radio buzz and simulated 78 rpm record noise. Now I use two mike's plugged into the cheapest cassette tape deck I could find that would accept two inputs. I have an omni directional for vocal on a stand placed a couple feet or so away from my head and an Elvis type old shure that used to broadcast the daily announcements in a Philadelphia highschool, which I place in a cigar box on the bed with the lid of the box held straight up by a shoe or whatever's handy. The cassette deck's input level is then adjusted so the lights run close to even and I let 'er rip from there. Pretty crude but I ain't goin' for the Electric LadyLand type of recording with the stuff that I do. I figure if the Lomax's could get the sounds that they did out of a machine they carried around in the trunk of a car, there must be some merit to bad recording techniques. Set up takes about five minutes and I don't have to keep foolin' with knobs and switches.

Perfectly awful quality, but hey ya can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Tweed

http://tweedsblues.net/


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: Spartacus
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 02:32 PM

For a few minutes I was waiting for tweed to come up with a punch line. I could write a song about the way you record yourself. Your recordings will be the ones that are released after you die and worth a fortune because of the bad quality. Nice....


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: Tweed
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 06:01 PM

"Your recordings will be the ones that are released after you die and worth a fortune because of the bad quality..."

GREAT!! I can hardly wait!! ;~)


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: GUEST,bayou sam
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 07:57 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: Amos
Date: 04 Apr 02 - 11:36 PM

I am sorry to report, Tweed,that your effort at miserable quality just didn't succeed. You came across sounding terrific in spite of yourself!

A.


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: Bert
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 03:33 AM

When recording any stringed instrument, turn OFF the automatic volume control and record manually at about half volume or less.


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 04:31 AM

Depends on what you're looking for.. McGrath and Tweed are as right as the people who measure the distance from a particular fret to the mike. I started recording my gospel quartet for a CD and gave a lot of thought as to how I wanted to do it. Financial limitations aside (which they weren't) I decided not to go digital, and not to record track by track. I've recorded at Folk Legacy with two mikes, with all the mixing done by everyone moving around like players on a massive chess board. What you play is what you get. It had it's limitations, because if the slide guitar wasn't as prominent as I would have liked it on Old Blue Suit, there was no way to change it. The mixing was in everyone's feet and Sandy's ear. The best thing about it was that we were just in a room playing music. All the horsing around, and egging each other on gave the music a spirit that track by track recording could never give. A few years ago, I recorded a gospel album track by track and never released it. I just couldn't hear any warmth in it. This time around, I wanted that spirit with a capital S.

We're recording with a four track with no one sitting at the controls. I opted for four tracks, partly for financial reasons, and partly because I knew we wouldn't have someone running the "board." I mike the electric (gasp!!) guitar about a foot from the amplifier, and we use the other three mikes for four voices. Instead of being a limitation, it's turned out to be a strength. The lead is on one mike, and Joe sings bass on the second mike. The two harmonies use the same mike, and that's been the wonderful bonus to all of this. We have to "mix" the two voices, "live." If John and Paul could do it, and all the bluegrass bands, why couldn't we? We've not only been getting good recordings, we've become much better at blending the harmonies, "live." Making a recording, even if no one ever bought it, is worth it for all that you learn in the process.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 08:57 AM

Well, I have to agree with Jerry in terms of Roll & Go's experience with two radically different recording techniques. Our first attempt involved at least 8 different tracks recorded simultaneously and then expensively remastered to perfection with no life left in the music. Our second attempt involves two mikes, one for the lead and one for the rest of us and an instrument or two, with shifting people around until it sounds right. The result, with a minimum of remastering, is much better to our ears and much less expensive.

I'm now experimenting with a Mackie 1202-VLZ Pro board directly patched into my PC for producing MP-3 files. I use two microphones, a Shure 58 and a Shure Dynamic for voice and instrument. I'm encouraged by the quality of the results and the convenience of sending out the songs to friends and other contacts via the internet.


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 09:02 AM

Sounds like we're on the same wave length. I tell the guys that the only mistake I don't want them to make is to worry about making a mistake. Sometimes you can get everything perfect and miss the song completely.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: GUEST,Tweed
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 11:34 AM

Eggzackly correct guys. If it's perfect, they won't listen close for anything odd or human sounding to happen as that portion will be washed away and then there is only sound without real music. I even have barking from my faithfull dog included on one of my songs and he's actually not too bad and comes in on cue;~)


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 11:54 AM

I suppose there are two opposite ways of looking at this.

On the one hand you can see the recording in itself as the significant version. Once engineered, the aim of live performances is to achieve as perfect a recreation of t6hgis as possible. This is the music industries central assumotion.

On the other hand the live performance is the significant version. The aim of recording is to produce as good a copy of the best available live performance. This is more the folk way.


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: GUEST,Wyowoman at Work
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 12:16 PM

What about Cakewalk? A friend here at work says he uses it to record right into his PC, then cuts a CD from that. I don't think the software is very expensive and I was thinking of getting some to fiddle around with. Just wondered if anyone else has played with it?

I bought Band in a Box on the recommendation of a friend and it basically has sat in the box for a year, with me sort of circling it and asking myself why, exactly, I thought I needed it. ...

WW


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: GUEST,Tweed at work..
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 01:33 PM

I use a program called Just Audio that came with the puter to put the music into WAV and then you can drag and drop selections on a cd blank. It's pretty easy once you make all the mistakes you can possibly make while figuring it out. There's a free program from AnalogX that will convert WAV to mp3's for smaller website music files and it's also fairly simple once you've done the trial and error thing for a couple late nighters.

Here's a link to the free AnalogX wav to mp3 download.


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: treewind
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 02:38 PM

On mic placements:there is never a hard and fast rule - try different positions and listen, and is depends on what type of sound you want and what mic youre using.

For a guitar, pointing a mic at the sound hole is bad, but any corner may be ok - neck end if you want fret and pick noise, tail end if you prefer that sound there.

If you can, put on some headphones and listen to what the mic is picking up, holding it in your hand and moving it around. That's guaranteed to produce the best result you can get with the mic you're using

Anahata


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 05:11 PM

I failed to mention above what recording/mastering software we were using. Actually it's my wife who is the sound techi but this is one way for me to learn more about our system, by instructing others. "We" use Cool Edit 2000 from Syntrillium Software on our Dell PC, which costs less than $100 and seems to do a great job without being too intimidating. There's also a more expensive version called Cool Edit Pro which others might be interested in but appears well beyond our home recording needs.


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Subject: RE: home recording techniques....
From: Ian Darby
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 06:58 PM

Spartacus,

If you're using a four track, place a mike to pick up your guitar and voice together.

Then stick a couple of the Tandy PZM's (as recommended by Suncrest Tina) on the walls to pick up the ambient stuff. These are excellent.

You could then bounce this on to your empty 4th track leaving the other three spare to put in a few fills, harmonies, etc.

I use the Cakewalk, Jammer, and Cubasis programs for recording, the only trouble is that this gives you a lot of flexibility, and the temptation is to keep going back tweaking and improving things.

You never seem to get anything finished.

I like Dylan's old attitude to recording where he'd do three takes and pick the best one out when he'd finished.

You can hear the odd fluffed note, and the timing shifting slightly, but it sounds like it's been played by human beings.

(Roy Harper also used to work like this.)

Also, don't look at that bloody red light.)


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