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Subject: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Raggytash Date: 08 Feb 02 - 03:03 PM I would like to find who wrote the Ballad of Seth Davy and definitive words if possibly
He sat on the corner of Bevington Bush |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: MMario Date: 08 Feb 02 - 03:23 PM Whiskey on a sunday is attributed to Glyn Hughes in the DT |
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Subject: Lyr Add: WHISKEY ON A SUNDAY (Glyn Hughes) From: Joan from Wigan Date: 08 Feb 02 - 03:32 PM WHISKEY ON A SUNDAY (Glyn Hughes) He sits in the corner of old Beggar's Bush On top of an old packing crate He has three wooden dolls that can dance and can sing And he croons with a smile on his face CHORUS Come day go day Wish in my heart it were Sunday Drinking buttermilk through the week Whiskey on a Sunday His tired old hands tug away at the strings And the puppets dance up and down A far better show than you ever would see In the fanciest theatre in town And sad to relate that old Seth Davy died In nineteen-oh-four The three wooden dolls in the dustbin were laid His song will be heard nevermore But some stormy night when you're passing that way And the wind's blowing up from the sea You'll still hear the song of old Seth Davy As he croons to his dancing dolls three I don't know if this is the original version or not - I remember from years ago a singer telling us that Seth Davy actually died in 1902, and I always sing that date in the version I do (which isn't the above, by the way). This version is from a website which gives lots of information about Dancing Dolls. Joan |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Barry Finn Date: 08 Feb 02 - 08:17 PM I think there was quite a nice thread on this some time ago. Good luck, Barry |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Joan from Wigan Date: 09 Feb 02 - 03:03 AM There are two previous threads: Seth Davy info please and Whisky on a Sunday. The version I know is the same as that quoted by roopoo in the first of the above links, and is the one sung by most if not all of my fellow Liverpudlians. Joan (originally from Liverpool) |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Joan from Wigan Date: 09 Feb 02 - 03:14 AM Out of curiosity, I've just been looking on the web for Beggars Bush and Bevington Bush. The former is apparently in Dublin, while Bevington Bush was/is in Liverpool: "the name of a thickly wooded valley between Bevington Hill and Everton Hill. An inn on Bevington Hill was called 'The Bush'." The area has not been 'thickly wooded' for many many years, but the area fits. As the version of the song quoted in the DT is that sung by the Irish Rovers, perhaps they changed the location to suited their Irish origins? Joan |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Raggytash Date: 09 Feb 02 - 03:27 AM A dancing doll is a wooden manikin pivoted at the shoulders, hips and knees, held by a thin rod about 18 inched long drilled into it's back. It is made to dance by placing it on a 4 x 24 inch thin plank which is then drummed with the fingers causing the doll to "dance" The second verse in the version I know goes "his tired old drummed a wooden beam, and the puppets dolls they danced the gear, a far better show than you ever did see, at the Pavvy on New Brighton Pier. This again would indicate the Liverpool connnection |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Hrothgar Date: 09 Feb 02 - 04:51 AM I know the dolls as "nimblejacks." |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: GUEST,manda Date: 11 Nov 08 - 04:03 PM The song was written in liverpool - but changed to suit the irish |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: breezy Date: 11 Nov 08 - 04:18 PM nobody has mentioned the Spinners, till now, who may be able throw further light on the subject. Any Spinners out there? |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Arkie Date: 11 Nov 08 - 10:50 PM The lyrics above indicate that the dolls were puppets worked by strings. My recollection of the song referred to the dancing dolls mentioned above which are also called Limberjims here in the Arkansas Ozarks. |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Mr Happy Date: 12 Nov 08 - 04:38 AM Jackie & Bridie used to do this song & had dolls dancing on a wooden stave as accompaniment |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Mr Happy Date: 12 Nov 08 - 04:41 AM ps not the kind with strings. The dolls were wooden with jointed limbs, had a stick in their backs, & the puppeteer sat on the stave & banged it with a fist, so that the dolls danced a sort've tapdance! |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Bernard Date: 12 Nov 08 - 06:37 AM According to this site the writer was Glyn Hughes... |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Manitas_at_home Date: 12 Nov 08 - 06:50 AM ...and not Glyn Hughes as credited in the first couple of postings then? |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: John MacKenzie Date: 12 Nov 08 - 07:12 AM Jig Dolls. JM |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Mr Happy Date: 12 Nov 08 - 07:55 AM Its a little disappointing to find that many've the songs I'd thought old & traditional were actually composed in the 1960s & 70s |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: SINSULL Date: 12 Nov 08 - 03:30 PM Mr. Happy, if a song is good, it doesn't matter when it was written. Share it. |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: GUEST,Jake Date: 12 Nov 08 - 05:41 PM The Houghton Weavers did a terrific version of this song. It's sang beautifully and the melody is lovely. |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: GUEST,machree01 Date: 13 Nov 08 - 06:18 AM I have a Danny Doyle album, called "Whiskey On A Sunday" {1968} the song remained at No. 1 in the Irish charts for 10 weeks. |
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Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: GUEST,Rich Date: 13 Nov 08 - 03:34 PM For info, from www.fsc.org Whisky on a Sunday, AKA Come Day, Go Day, AKA Seth Davy was written in the 1960s by Glyn Hughes. Hughes was born in Liverpool in 1932 and died there in 1972. During his brief life he had many occupations: journalist, short-story writer, bookseller's assistant, musician in a circus, film extra, hotel liftman and song writer, to mention only a few. The song is about a well-known Jamaican street entertainer in Liverpool in the 1890s/1900s and has been recorded by among others The Dubliners, The Irish Rovers and Rolf Harris. Gerry Jones, Liverpool singer, says: "Seth Davy was a real person, he really existed, and he died a couple of years into the 20th century. There was a street and a pub, both called Bevington Bush just north of Liverpool City Centre, and Seth Davy did do a busking act outside. "In his book Liverpool: Our City - Our Heritage, Freddie O'Connor tells us that in 1760, half a mile from Marybone (St Patrick's Cross) along Bevington Bush Road was a hamlet named Bevington Bush which had an inn called simply the Bush, which became a favourite haunt for folk to travel out into the country, to the Bevy Inn, as it became fondly known. With the opening of Scotland Road, the ancient Bevington Bush Road became a minor road amidst the massive slum district that would soon engulf it. As the district was built up it also lost its original name. "Please do not be taken in by any Irish versions of this song, or any reference to "Bebbington". Bebington is "over the water" - not in Liverpool at all. I know the truth for a fact because, when I was a brand-new teacher in the Dingle in 1963, our old lollypop man told me that he had actually seen Seth Davy doing his stuff. So I have spoken to a first-hand witness. "I have heard that Seth Davy's own singing was a non-too-wonderful monotone, and not the pleasant melody that was written about him in the 60s folk boom." |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,DESI Date: 14 Dec 08 - 07:28 AM As an Irish singer who performs this song, I can confirm that indeed it's not an Irish song at all, but as most people point out it stems from Liverpool where there was a real street entertainer named Seth Davel. Many somgs get 'adopted' by my country folk and Seth Davely has the sound of a good Irish song, bit like Dirty Old Town who many Irish and English believe to be Irish, in fact the 'dirty old town' in question refers to the home town of the writer Ewan Mc'coll, Salford near Manchester. It's a cedit to Glyn Hughes writing skills that many including myself originally thought it to be a much older traditional song, I'll be singing Seth Davey tonight 14/12/08 as it happens Desi, the artist formerly known as, who? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: scouse Date: 14 Dec 08 - 07:56 AM I learn these words over on the "posh." side. i.e. The one eyed city!! His tired old hands drummed wooden beams And the puppet Dolls they danced the gear A better show ever, that you would see At the Tivvie (Tivoli) or New Brighton Pier An on some stormy night down "Scotty." road way When the wind's blows up from the sea You can still hear the sound of old Seth Davy As he croons to his dancing dolls three. As Aye, Phil. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Richard Bridge Date: 14 Dec 08 - 08:38 AM It occurs to me that the ranges of local words to this song is supportive of the Karpeles defintion. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Joybell Date: 14 Dec 08 - 04:56 PM Does anyone else keep falling into 3/4 time while singing this song, or is it just me? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Bernard Date: 14 Dec 08 - 06:35 PM Uhh?!! |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Richard Bridge Date: 14 Dec 08 - 07:27 PM I never bothered to think about it but isn't part of it 4/4 and part 3/4? I, however, do "the WIld Mountain Thyme" in 4/4. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,Bill the sound Date: 14 Dec 08 - 07:30 PM I found this track on a Max Boyce album, The Miles and the Roads he gives credit to Glyn Hughes, I hope he's right. Bill |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Bernard Date: 14 Dec 08 - 07:36 PM I've always done both entirely in 3/4... Bill the Sound... don't let Manitas hear you say that! I had the temerity to post a link to a website... it seems that someone had already mentioned the Glyn Hughes connection... sshhh!! ;o) |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,White Camry Date: 08 Jan 09 - 03:35 PM "The song is about a well-known Jamaican street entertainer in Liverpool in the 1890s/1900s ... " Was Seth Davy black, then? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,Dave MacKenzie Date: 08 Jan 09 - 08:02 PM I was told that Bevington Bush was the site of the old Liverpool Sally Army Hostel. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: banjoman Date: 09 Jan 09 - 07:43 AM I have known this song a long time, and when I first learnt it I remember my Mum telling me that her Grandmother had related how she had seen a man with dancing dolls outside the Bevington Bush pub which stood on the junction of bevington Bush and Scotland Road - I remember that - so it probably confirms the date suggested by White Canary. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Les in Chorlton Date: 09 Jan 09 - 07:51 AM "The song is about a well-known Jamaican street entertainer in Liverpool in the 1890s/1900s ... " Was Seth Davy black, then? Chances are... |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Noreen Date: 09 Jan 09 - 08:46 AM I've only ever heard it completely in 3/4. ...Bevington Bush which had an inn called simply the Bush, which became a favourite haunt for folk to travel out into the country, to the Bevy Inn... Hence, going for a Bevy?! |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 09 Jan 09 - 08:57 AM The trouble with songs that are discussed over multiple threads is that few people bother to read the other ones, so the same questions and answers tend to be repeated and the same ground covered over and over again; not least when an old discussion like this one is revived after six years of merciful oblivion by somebody with nothing new to say. Such people tend to resurrect the least informative thread available, of course. There is more information about Davy himself in other threads (see links above) including the fact that Fritz Spiegl reckoned to have seen a photograph of him. See Matthew Edwards' post in Lyr Req: Whiskey on a Sunday. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Nigel Parsons Date: 09 Jan 09 - 09:03 AM Noreen: I think you'll find that Bevvy is a shortened form of Beverage. Cheers Nigel |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Noreen Date: 11 Jan 09 - 07:50 PM That's what I had always assumed, Nigel- but it could just as well be the other- do you have any evidence? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,John Forrest Liverpool Date: 12 May 09 - 04:52 PM A wonderful song, Rolf Harris sings it with the doll on you tube. Incidentally Going for a "Bevvy" has nothing to do with the song, it means going for a beverage. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,Chrissie Date: 28 Jun 09 - 10:22 AM Seeing as though the song mentions the Pavvy (New Brighton (Floral)pavilion), and New brighton pier, could the frist line also be interpreted as Bebington Bush - thus aligning it more to Wirral? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: vectis Date: 28 Jun 09 - 10:30 AM I thought the line read The palais or New Brighton Parade. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Noreen Date: 29 Jun 09 - 07:32 AM You can interpret it any way you like, Chrissie (as many people do!) but the orginal words say Bevington Bush. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Matthew Edwards Date: 30 Jun 09 - 07:33 AM Thanks to Chrissie, vectis and Noreen for reviving this topic. There are several threads discussing the song, and it seems to be a matter of luck as to which one turns up in a Google or other search. As I live in Bebington in Wirral I can state that there isn't any location known as "Bebington Bush", and to the best of my knowledge there never has been. As a mainly suburban area it wouldn't have been a prime spot for a street entertainer to work. So far as I've been able to discover all the memories of Seth Davy are associated with Liverpool, and although the song does mention New Brighton Pier I haven't yet seen any evidence that Seth Davy performed there. The "Pivvy" could be a reference to the Pavilion, but some singers sing the words as "Tivvy" - a reference to the Tivoli Palace of Varieties in Lime Street, Liverpool. I did mention in another thread on this song Lyr Req: Whiskey on a Sunday that the late Fritz Spiegl had found an old magic lantern slide showing a street scene outside the Bevington Bush Hotel from the late 19th century. This shows an elderly black man seated on some sort of box playing a set of jig dolls on a plank and surrounded by children. I've now seen the original slide which is labelled "Davy" and I hope to be able to publish it soon with the owner's consent. I'm sure that Glyn Hughes must have seen this slide, or a picture based on it, when he wrote the song since the scene exactly matches the first verse:- "He sat at the corner of Bevington Bush Astride an old packing case And the dolls on the end of his plank went dancing As he crooned with a smile on his face." Matthew Edwards |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Brakn Date: 30 Jun 09 - 08:38 AM I get the feeling that his real name was not "Seth Dav(e)y" He doesn't appear on the 1901 census and no-one is registered as dying called that name around that period. There is a Thomas Henry Davies born West Indies in 1860 living as a pauper in Toxteth Park Workhouse in 1901. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,Big Elk Date: 30 Jun 09 - 12:24 PM If she is still with us try and contact Jackie Mc Donald who used to be 1/2 of Jackie and Bridie. 4 years ago she was involved with the Chester Folk Club. She is a walking encyclopedia |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,ChrisJBrady Date: 05 Nov 09 - 11:31 AM Quote "I did mention in another thread on this song Lyr Req: Whiskey on a Sunday that the late Fritz Spiegl had found an old magic lantern slide showing a street scene outside the Bevington Bush Hotel from the late 19th century. This shows an elderly black man seated on some sort of box playing a set of jig dolls on a plank and surrounded by children. I've now seen the original slide which is labelled "Davy" and I hope to be able to publish it soon with the owner's consent. I'm sure that Glyn Hughes must have seen this slide, or a picture based on it, when he wrote the song since the scene exactly matches the first verse:- "He sat at the corner of Bevington Bush Astride an old packing case And the dolls on the end of his plank went dancing As he crooned with a smile on his face." Matthew Edwards" Unquote. I wonder if there is a view of this slide on the web please, or did it ever get published? Many thanks - Chris B. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,ChrisJBrady Date: 05 Nov 09 - 11:51 AM Folks may be interested in my new pahe: http://chrisbrady.itgo.com/jigdolls/jigdolls.htm Chris B. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,Graham Sugdon Date: 09 Mar 10 - 02:46 PM i was playing/ singing whiskey on a Sunday in a pub in St Abbs in 1976 after i finished a man came to me thanked me for my rendition of the song and introduced me to his elderly mother who could remember sitting and watching Seth Davy . My father Bernard (1926 - 2007)made a dancing doll and used to have it dancing whilst i sang and played at family gatherings . i still perform this song today and always enjoy the song, my fathers doll is residing in the loft and has never been dancing since he died . |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,Tom Campbell Date: 12 Feb 12 - 06:27 PM I learned this from a guy in the Fox & Vivian folk club in Leamington Spa in the 1970's. Sep Davey. He sat on the corner of Bebbington Bush Astride of an old packing case And the dolls on the end of a plank went dancing as he crooned with a smile on his face. Chorus: Come day go day, wishing me heart for Sunday, Drinking Buttermilk all the week Whisky on a Sunday. His tired old hand beat the wooden seat and the puppet dolls they danced so gear, A better show than you never have seen At the Pivvy or New Brighton Pier Chorus. Well in 1905, old Sep Davey died And his songs was heard no more And the three dancing dolls In a jowlie was ended And the plank went to mend a back door. Chorus. Now on cold stormy nights Down Scottie Road way When the wind howls up from the sea You can still hear the voice of old Sep Davey As he croons to his dancing dolls three. Chorus. Gear = Good Jowlie = Dustbin Pivvy = The Pavilion Theatre Scottie Road = Scotland Road |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST Date: 16 Apr 13 - 10:25 AM He sat on the corner of Bevington Bush, Astride an old packing case; And the dolls at the end of the plank went dancing, As he crooned with a smile on his face: La, la, la, la.... Come day, go day, Wish in me heart for Sunday; La, la, la, la.... Drinking buttermilk all the week, And it's whisky on a Sunday. His tired old hands drummed the wooden beam, And the puppets they danced t' gear; A far better show then you ever would see, At the Pivvy or New Brighton Pier. La, la, la, la.... Come day, go day, Wish in me heart for Sunday; La, la, la, la.... Drinking buttermilk all the week, And it's whisky on a Sunday. But in 1902, old Seth Davy died, His song it was heard no more; The three dancing dolls in a jowler-bin ended, The plank went to mend a back door. La, la, la, la.... Come day, go day, Wish in me heart for Sunday; La, la, la, la.... Drinking buttermilk all the week, And it's whisky on a Sunday. But on some stormy nights, down Scotty Road way, With the wind blowing in from the sea, You can still hear the song of old Seth Davy, As he crooned to his dancing dolls three: La, la, la, la.... Come day, go day, Wish in me heart for Sunday; La, la, la, la.... Drinking buttermilk all the week, And it's whisky on a Sunday. La, la, la, la.... Drinking buttermilk all the week, And it's whisky on a Sunday. Bevington bush was a pub on Scotland Road (Scotty Rd) |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Snuffy Date: 16 Apr 13 - 12:07 PM Bevington Bush is still a street in Liverpool 3 off Scotland Road (53.41542 -2.98363), but there isn't much left there now. Was the pub named after the street, or vice-versa? |
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