mudcat.org: Help: Horse Thief / Crafty Maid's Policy
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Help: Horse Thief / Crafty Maid's Policy

DigiTrad:
CRAFTY MAID'S POLICY
SWEET JOAN
WHEN SHE GOT THERE


Related threads:
seek song: What Lies Between Your Legs (20)
Lyr Req: The Crafty Maid's Policy (12)
Lyr Req: Horse Thief (Claudia Schmidt version) (15)


leprechaun 01 Feb 02 - 03:02 AM
alison 01 Feb 02 - 03:05 AM
alison 01 Feb 02 - 03:14 AM
Wolfgang 01 Feb 02 - 05:21 AM
GUEST,Sandra 01 Feb 02 - 06:24 AM
Dave Bryant 01 Feb 02 - 06:57 AM
Malcolm Douglas 01 Feb 02 - 09:14 AM
Desert Dancer 01 Feb 02 - 12:41 PM
Genie 01 Feb 02 - 01:32 PM
leprechaun 01 Feb 02 - 02:43 PM
Malcolm Douglas 01 Feb 02 - 03:23 PM
Uncle_DaveO 02 Feb 02 - 02:33 PM
Amos 02 Feb 02 - 02:36 PM
John MacKenzie 02 Feb 02 - 04:35 PM
Malcolm Douglas 02 Feb 02 - 04:58 PM
Genie 03 Feb 02 - 12:25 AM
Desdemona 03 Feb 02 - 07:32 PM
harpgirl 03 Feb 02 - 07:36 PM
Malcolm Douglas 03 Feb 02 - 08:53 PM
Desdemona 03 Feb 02 - 09:14 PM
pavane 18 Jan 03 - 02:44 AM
Genie 18 Jan 03 - 03:50 AM
DG&D Dave 18 Jan 03 - 04:58 AM
Genie 18 Jan 03 - 05:20 PM
Malcolm Douglas 18 Jan 03 - 06:58 PM
DG&D Dave 19 Jan 03 - 08:23 AM
Genie 20 Jan 03 - 03:27 AM
Hrothgar 20 Jan 03 - 04:58 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:




Subject: Song about lady horse thief
From: leprechaun
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 03:02 AM

A few years ago I heard a song on the radio about a lady who meets a bunch of lordly types on horseback. One of them gets saucy with her and the lady says words to the effect that what she's interested in is what's between his legs. He says he'll be glad to give it to her. When he gets off his horse for what he thinks will be an assignation, she jumps on the horse and rides away. I think the outcome was, fair's fair, he said she could have it, so she gets to keep the horse.

Does that sound familiar to anybody? What's the name of the song and where is it available?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: alison
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 03:05 AM

its here in the dt.. and we've had threads on it... but I'm buggered if I can remember the name of it..... sorry.... but someone else will....

slainte

alison


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: alison
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 03:14 AM

found it by doing a search on @trick

called Crafty Maid's Policy

slainte

alison


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 05:21 AM

Similar theme: Highwayman outwitted

Wolfgang


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 06:24 AM

Faith Petric's When Did We Have Sauerkraut - A collection of Extraordinary & Outrageous Songs, (Centre Records, San Francisco) contains The Crafty Maid's Policy, learned from the singing of Frankie Armstrong.

It's a wonderful album containing, as it says, many very extraordinary & outrageous songs, all sung in her inimitable style. Faith looks like someone's dear sweet little old granny - she has such a lovely smile, yet some of the songs might offend other grannies. Too bad, they're great songs. Faith has been a hit around Australian festivals & I can't wait to meet her again & catch her performances.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 06:57 AM

This songs sounds as though it's related to both "Broomfield Hill", and "Solvay" and (as a nautical version) "Maid on the Shore".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 09:14 AM

The DT file is taken from a record by Frankie Armstrong; her source is not made clear, but the text looks to be a slight modification of that printed by Frank Purslow in The Wanton Seed (EFDS, 1968).  This was a collation of a partial text noted by H.E.D. Hammond from the prolific Mrs. Russell of Upwey, Dorset, in 1907, and a broadside text printed by Disley.  The tune given is a close relative of Mrs. Russell's, and without knowing the facts I'd guess that Frankie learned the song from Purslow's book and changed it during the course of performance.  A copy of the Disley sheet can be seen at  Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads:

The crafty maid's policy  Printed between 1860 and 1883 by H. Disley, 57, High Street, St. Giles [London].

There are two other versions of this song in the DT:

WHEN SHE GOT THERE  A Wisconsin set from Pearl Jacobs Borusky, 1940, with tune.
SWEET JOAN  From Stephen Sedley's book The Seeds of Love (Essex Music, 1967).

Frank Purslow, who was not entirely impressed with Sedley's scholarship, commented "Sedley has... unaccountably confused the song with one usually called Lovely Joan and the result is verses from the Crafty Maid's Policy broadside set to a Lovely Joan tune."

In fact the confusion is not that uncommon; the DT has assigned the same DT number, #357, to both Lovely Joan and The Crafty Maid's Policy, though they really are separate songs.  The Highwayman Outwitted (also frequently called The Yorkshire Bite) is also quite separate, though all three songs involve women cunningly pinching horses.  (Actually, the last has a farmer's boy as protagonist at least as often as a farmer's daughter).  Broomfield Hill and Sovay are not related at all.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 12:41 PM

To add some fluff to this erudite thread...

I like that image "women cunningly pinching horses" -- "Ow, what was that?!?" said the horse, turning to look behind.

~ B in T
I think this falls in the "two nations, separated by a common language" category


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Genie
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 01:32 PM

"Horse Thief" lyrics are here

Genie


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: leprechaun
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 02:43 PM

What a resourceful bunch of folks!

Thank you all!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 03:23 PM

Thanks for that link, Genie; I had completely forgotten that we'd been through most of it already, back in the summer!  Busy year...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 02:33 PM

A subject-related but not identical song that's of interest is "The Crafty Farmer". Search the DT for CRFTFARM. Here it's the farmer who tricks the highwayman and steals his horse and gold.

Dave Oesterreich


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Amos
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 02:36 PM

Love the Crafty Maid. Many thanks for the erudition and enlightenment.

A.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Lyr Add: LOVELY JOAN
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 04:35 PM

Lovely Joan.
A fine young man it was indeed
All mounted on his milk-white steed
He rode, he rode, he rode all alone
Until he came to lovely Joan

Good morn to you, my pretty fair maid
And twice good morning sir she said
She smiled at him, and she rolled her dark eye
Said he to himself,"I'll be there by and by"

I can't remember any more of the top of my head, at the moment, but it ends up with her jumping on his horse and riding away.
She robbed him of his horse and ring
And left him to rage in the meadows so green

If you think this is what you're looking for, I'll dig around and find all the words.

Saturday night is the loneliest night of the week.
Giok


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 04:58 PM

As I mentioned, Lovely Joan is a different song.  See, in the DT:

LOVELY JOAN  Set from Roy Palmer's Everyman's Book of English Country Songs (1979); though the DT file does not say so, it was noted by Ralph Vaughan Williams from Christopher Jay of Acle, Norfolk, in 1908.

In the Forum:

Lovely Joan  The set from the Penguin Book of English Folk Songs; Mr. Jay's set again.  According to A.L. Lloyd's notes, a partial text had been expanded with reference to another in Cecil Sharp's MS collection; RVW seems originally only to have written down Mr. Jay's final verse.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Genie
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 12:25 AM

Here's another older thread about this song and its variants LyricRequest:Horse Thief


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Desdemona
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 07:32 PM

There are literally dozens of songs on this theme; no-one's mentioned "The Courteous Knight" yet, one of my personal favourites. She not only steals one of his horses, she makses a right fool of him by tricking him into taking her home so he can have his will of her in comfort, whereupon she "rode in at the wicket gate & shut the four-eared fool without" (the knight on his horse)!

Also "The Farmer In Cheshire", whose daughter handily outwits a "lusty highwayman" (The Copper family had a great version of this; Magpie lane recorded it as well.

Oh---there's so many; lots of easily bilked horsemen riding around with only one thing on their minds, it would appear!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: harpgirl
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 07:36 PM

The broadside, "The Female Frolick" is another about lady outlaws....

hg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 08:53 PM

The Courteous Knight is Child #112, more usually called The Baffled Knight; most versions don't involve anybody stealing a horse, though the dénoument usually involves humiliation; there's a whole family of French songs that tell the same story, so it's far from being a local issue.  The Farmer in Cheshire is a variant of The Yorkshire Bite / Highwayman Outwitted etc., which has been mentioned earlier; again unrelated, as is The Female Frolic (Sovay, etc).

There's quite a few songs involving female horse thieves.  The stories are all different, and mostly unrelated to each other.  Horses were important, of course, and songs about strong, clever and resourceful women have always been popular in Britain, which is how it should be, after all.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Desdemona
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 09:14 PM

Well, a horse was a clear indication of social status; the entire institution of "chivalry" as a military force to be reckoned with is based on the fact that only a certain class of people could afford to ride: those who controlled all the land, power, etc. Tricking a gentleman out of this status symbol clearly demonstrated the canny sense of the socially "inferior" milkmaid/farmer's daughter/simple country lass, etc., over this scion of the ruling class: a theme inevitably delightful to the hearer.

Good tunes, too!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: pavane
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 02:44 AM

Just found this in the Bodley collection. It looks like an early version of Lovely Joan etc, and doesn't seem to be listed above.

The frolicsome maiden, or, the gentleman outwitted


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Lyr Add: FROLICKSOME MAIDEN THE GENTLEMAN ...
From: Genie
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 03:50 AM

Thanks, pavane. This version is close to the one I've heard before.

Here is a transcription of the lyrics, as near as I can make them out. (The last verse is too smudged to read clearly.)

Genie

-------------

The Frolicksome Maiden the Gentleman Outwitted

You buxom young lasses, come listen a while,
And to you a comical story I'll tell.
I am sure the fancy will make you to smile
Concerning a lass who in London did dwell.

As she was walking forth one morning,
Being brisk, jolly undaunted and bold,
The jest it was pretty, it was done in the city
As in my relation to you I'll unfold.

This frolicksome lass one day chanced to meet
Three jovial gentlemen riding along.
One of the three did her kindly greet
And said, "Fair maid, I'll do you no wrong."

She said, "Kind Sir, I don't much fear you,
That this cold morning you should do me any harm,
But one thing I beg, Sir, 'twixt your legs, Sir,
If you will give it, 'twill keeep pure warm."

This frolicksome lass his horse did mean,
But he did not know her crafty intent.
He said "You shall have it when you came to yonder green."
Thinking 'twas something else that she meant.

"But, oh, kind Sir," said she, "shall I have it?"
"Yes, by my soul, my dear jewel," said he,
Because that you crave it, my dear, you shall have it.
I take these two gentlemen witness to be."

"Sir," said she, "could I but believe,
That which you promise you'll give unto me.
Men make it their business our sex to decieve,
There's scarce one in ten that faithful will be."

He said, "My dear, I won't deceive you.
You shall have what between my legs I have got.
Can I prove so ungrateful or yet so deceitful
To deny a fair maid such a favour as that?"

But when they unto the green came,
He dismounted his horse to take hold of her hand,
But she proved shy and refused the same
And begged him a minute or two for to stand.

He said, "My dear, I am very impatient.
Take what I promised without more delay."
She strait took the horse and laid her legs across
And then from them all she galloped away.

The gentleman seeing how he was served
Upon his two friends simply looked.
They smiled and said, "Nought but what you deserved!"
He said, "But her meaning, indeed, I mistook!"

"But if you will lend me one of your horses,
I will pursue through yonder long lane.
I'll soon overtake her, and then I will make her
Deliver unto me my horse back again."

Then after her with full speed he did ride
And coming up to her these words he did say:
"Come give my horse again," he cry'd.
She answered,"Why in so much hurry, I pray,"

"For your horse you fairly gave me?"
From before her a pistol she took in her hand
The horse I've won, sir, for what I have done,
So therefore stand off or you're a dead man."

The gentleman said, "You impudent queen!
You with us now to a justice shall go."
She said, "I nothing but honesty mean
And I don't care a pin who of it does know."

"For I will now go with you freely,
The people will stand at your sight to behold."
Her legs being crossed, she dismounted her horse
And unto the justice the story she told.

The justice did laugh till his sides he did hold
And say "Pray come tell me if all this be true."
He said, "I cannot deny what she had told,
But yet I don't think that my horse is her due."

"What betwixt my legs I promised her
If she would go up to the green.
I soon consented and she was contented,
But I little thought 'twas my horse she did mean."

The justice he said, "I hope you don't grudge,
That which ???????? part with it free,
For 'tis her own were it worth twice as much,
And that these your friends both witness be

The gentlemen went in a passion away
----- heartily at the sun
------------------------------------


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Lyr Add: THE HORSEMAN (Chris Mordey)
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 04:58 AM

Chris Mordey of Wirksworth Derbyshire UK wrote a varient of Lovely Joan which closely fits the query.

Chris played in a Derby band in the 60's/70's with Paul Richardson, John Squires and someone else of whom I have forgotten the name.

I have also forgotten the band's name but they did produce an album called "Sweet Peg o' Derby" which I believe this track comes from.

This is from memory, so errors and ommisions accepted.

THE HORSEMAN
Chris Mordey

By Ashley Hay one cold dark day in the springtime of the year,
By a cottage high with a stream running by a horseman did appear.
He was dressed do neat, from his head to his feet with his cloak all the colour of flame,
and in it design were the colours fine as to put the day to shame.

He lead his horse by the waters course and its there by the water clear,
that to his supprise a maid did arrise and so boldly she did appear.
Oh she was tall, fair, thin and withall as she softly did enquire,
If he had a mind would he be so kind as to grant her, her one desire.

Oh if any task you care to ask I cannot well fulfill
this gold of mine it shall be thine if that should be your will.
Oh the thing I beg is beetween your legs She said with a saucy air,
and he thought with a smile he'd be there in a while as he made for to leave his mare.

Well he got down from the bonny little brown and he made for to lay her down.
But she likewise to the saddle did arrise and so quickly she has flown.
And she called down from the bonny little brown as she sped o're the moorland gorse.
Don't you make such a moan the mistake was your own for I sought nothing but your horse.

DMB
@trick


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Genie
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 05:20 PM

Chris, those lyrics seem to be a perfect fit to "Star Of the County Down." Does Chris use that tune or something different?

Genie


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 18 Jan 03 - 06:58 PM

I think the band was called Saga. The song is essentially a remake of The Crafty Maid's Policy, not Lovely Joan, but as we saw earlier they are easily confused.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 08:23 AM

Genie.
I hadn't noticed the simillarity with the Star OTCD before.
The lyric pattern fits very well.
The actual tune is similar but definitely different and generaly slower than most people sing the Star. Although I ahve heard some very slow versions.
If someone can tell me about a format for entering tunes I will attempt to add the version that I remember.

Malcolm. You're right about the band name "Saga" thanks for the memory:)

Dave.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Genie
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 03:27 AM

Dave, I think Mudcat recommends ABC format. Check with Joe Offer or MMario about that.

Genie


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Song about lady horse thief
From: Hrothgar
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 04:58 AM

Is "lady horse thief" another oxymoron?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 20 November 12:26 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.