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hymn stories?

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GUEST,sam (guest) 28 Dec 01 - 08:18 AM
Uncle Jaque 28 Dec 01 - 09:19 AM
masato sakurai 28 Dec 01 - 11:56 AM
Uncle Jaque 28 Dec 01 - 03:39 PM
Charcloth 28 Dec 01 - 06:10 PM
Nathan in Texas 29 Dec 01 - 10:38 AM
masato sakurai 29 Dec 01 - 11:27 AM
Cappuccino 29 Dec 01 - 01:47 PM
Burke 02 Jan 02 - 09:57 PM
masato sakurai 02 Jan 02 - 11:01 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 02 Jan 02 - 11:31 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 02 Jan 02 - 11:36 PM
masato sakurai 03 Jan 02 - 12:13 AM
Burke 03 Jan 02 - 06:11 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 03 Jan 02 - 09:02 PM
Deckman 03 Jan 02 - 10:14 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 03 Jan 02 - 10:48 PM
masato sakurai 04 Jan 02 - 12:42 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 04 Jan 02 - 02:30 AM
Burke 04 Jan 02 - 11:15 AM
Mary in Kentucky 04 Jan 02 - 11:29 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 04 Jan 02 - 11:47 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 04 Jan 02 - 11:59 AM
Burke 04 Jan 02 - 02:11 PM
Burke 09 Jan 02 - 06:31 PM
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Subject: hymn stories?
From: GUEST,sam (guest)
Date: 28 Dec 01 - 08:18 AM

Does anyone know of any web sites or good books which have to do with the history of hymns?Everybody's heard the story of Amazing Grace; I'm sure other hymns have interesting backgrounds. My favorite hymn, by the by, is Wayfaring Stranger.


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 28 Dec 01 - 09:19 AM

The excellent Christian media Ministry of "SONGTIME USA"

http://www.songtime.com/

frequently features a "Hymn Story" as part of it's regular radio broadcast, and these are apparantly drawn from a book on this topic which may be available through the Ministry Bookstore. I think (not sure) that the Author may be a "Bill DAIGLE". In the Monthly newsletter I recieve as an occasional contributor to the Ministry, a written article on the history of a particular Hymn is usually featured, and they are always quite interesting. Purchacing the book is one of those things I've put off for way too long, but I think that you would find that it would address your quest about as well as anything commonly available could.

Not only does the researcher cover the history of the Hymn, but gives biographical insight into the life and times of the Composor, Lyricist, and frequently those who had a part in the inspiration of the song. If the "testimony" or conversion experience of the Composer is of note, that is covered as well. Fascinating material, really.

I was unable to find specific links to that book at the Sontime site just now due to "timing out", but suggest that you check them out and perhaps inquire directly via E-mail. Pastor John DeBRINE and his staff have always impressed me as being really genuine, down-to-earth (yet hearts in Heaven) Christian folk, and I'm pretty sure that you will be blessed in any interaction you may have with them.

May the Master's Blessings attend your research!

Oh, BTW; "Wayfaring" is one of my favorites as well. As mentioned in an earlier thread, I hardly ever can play/sing it without getting blessed all foolish and overcome with emotion to the point that it's difficult or impossible to finish all the verses! Needless to say, I don't generally attempt it in public!

Here's a few other sources for scores and MIDI on "Wayfaring":

http://www.ccel.org/cceh/0007/x000725.htm

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/i/a/iamapoor.htm

With my appologies for being too numb/lazy to memorize all the HTML incantations for converting URLs into "Blickies". Perhaps someday this site will catch up with the rest of the internet forum world (HINT...)an do it automatically. In the meantime I'm sure that you're familiar with the old "cut & paste" routine. Shalom; Uncle Jaque, Maine


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 28 Dec 01 - 11:56 AM

200 Amazing Hymn Stories.
~Masato


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 28 Dec 01 - 03:39 PM

Thanks for that one, Masato; We didn't have that one in the "Bookmarks" file... but we do now!

Although I didn't find "Wayfaring" in there, there are certainly some of the great "Old Standbys" listed!


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Charcloth
Date: 28 Dec 01 - 06:10 PM

There is a book out by Kenneth W. Osbeck called "101 Hymn Stories" it is published byKregel Publications.
it doesn' have Wayfaring stranger but it has many others. BTW Wayfaring Stranger is supposed to have first been heard in the back woods of Ky. During the American Revolution. Take Care Charcloth


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Nathan in Texas
Date: 29 Dec 01 - 10:38 AM

Uncle Jaque mentioned Cyberhymnal for "Wayfaring Stranger." For those not familiar with it, http://www.cyberhymnal.org is a great source for virtually every hymn that's in public domain. In addition to the words and midis for over 3200 hymns and gospel songs, it includes info (including pictures) on the authors and composers, as well as stories on the history of many of the hymns.


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 29 Dec 01 - 11:27 AM

Kenneth W. Osbeck has written several hymn story books (CLICK HERE).
Other hymn story sites include:
Worship Map Resources: Hymn Story.
Great Hymn Stories
Hymn Stories
Short Stories About Great Hymn Writers
I sometimes consult Albert Christ-Janer et al., American Hymns Old and New, 2 vols. (Columbia UP, 1980; vol. 2 is "Notes and Biographies") and Armin Haeussler, The Story of Our Hymns: The Handbook to the Hymnal of the Evangelical and Reformed Church (Eden Publishing House, 1952). Very brief but sometimes informative notes are attached to each hymn in Maria Leiper and Henry W. Simon, A Treasury of Hymns (Cornerstone, 1968).
~Masato


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Cappuccino
Date: 29 Dec 01 - 01:47 PM

A relatively new book out here in England is 'Inspirational Hymn and Song Stories', by Paul Davis - same guy as wrote the recent biography of George Hamilton IV.

The ISBN is 1-84030-101-5, and you can find it at www.ambassador-productions.com or, for the States, www.emeraldhouse.com

It's OK, but not exciting. If you need any specific details about it or any contents from it, feel free to PM me.

- Ian B


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Burke
Date: 02 Jan 02 - 09:57 PM

I don't think there's a lot of known background for Wayfaring Stranger. The Sacred Harp lists the 1st found version of the words as

The Christian songster : a collectin of hymns and spiritual songs, usually sung at camp, prayer, and social meetings, and revivals of religion. Designed for all denominations / compiled by Joseph Bever. Dayton, Ohio : Printed at the printing establishment of the United Brethren in Christ, 1858.

I suspect it's a word only book despite the 'songster' in the title because the catalog record says nothing about music. If a poet had been listed in the book, the Sacred Harp 1991 ed. would probably included it.

The tune is from the oral tradition. Any version I've ever seen published claims to only be an arrangment.


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 02 Jan 02 - 11:01 PM

"Wayfaring Stranger" (with almost the same music) is in Religious Songs of the Negro, new edition (Institute Press, Hampton, VA, 1920; rpt. AMS, 1973, pp. 126-127), with the title "Pilgrim's Song," though this song is not contained in the original edition (Hampton and its Students, 1874). "Poor Pilgrim" (that is, "Wayfaring Stranger"), which is said to be "a Negro spiritual," in George Pullen Jackson's White Spirituals in the Southern Uplands (1933; Dover, 1965, p. 271), was set to a different tune (an adaptation of the 'Katie Secret'). The Great Song Thesaurus (Oxford UP, 1984) says, "Wayfarin' Stranger c.1800 w.m. traditional American folk ballad," which date is questionable.
~Masato


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jan 02 - 11:31 PM

The Ballad Index, cufresno, lists Sacred Harp 1844 for 1st known publication of "Wayfaring Stranger", but no other data, supporting or otherwise. The song is also known as "Poor and Foreign Stranger" (Folksongs of the Catskills, 1977), and has also been collected in Massachusetts as well as in the Southeastern states. Its form seems to be that of a hymn rather than a Negro spiritual. Without the editions, it is not possible to tell whether it appeared in the post-Fenner Hampton 1891, or 1909, editions as well as in the Dett 1927 edition of "Religious Folk Songs of the Negro."
A recent unusual version is "The Wayfaring Wiccan" by Brenda Sutton.


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jan 02 - 11:36 PM

The chorus, "Goin' over Jordan," could be an add-on to "Wayfaring Stranger."


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 03 Jan 02 - 12:13 AM

I'll quote Jackson's comment from another book:

 This [the version quoted] is a comparatively recent recording (around the beginning of the present century) of an extremely widely sung folk-tune. It appeares in Good Old Songs as a bare melody, no harmonic parts. I suggest, as an explanation of the d-flat in the fifth measure from the end, the intrusion of dorian influence. The earliest known recording among the fasola folk was in the first edition of the Sacred Harp, 1844. The negro adoptions and adaptations are reviewed WS [White Spirituals in the Southern Uplands] 251ff.
 The tune is quite evidently borrowed from secular environment. I list here a number of secular songs whose tunes are variously related: 'Barbar Allen', Sharp, i., 194 and 195; 'In Old Virginny', Sharp, ii., 232-234; 'Come All Ye Fair and Tender Ladies', Sharp, ii., 128-136; 'Katie Morey', Sharp, ii., 120; 'Dear Companion', Sharp, ii., 109; 'George Reilly', Sharp, ii., 26; 'Awake, Awake', Sharp, i., 358-364, and Petrie, Nos. 1222 and 265.
 A note on this song in the Social Harp says that the compiler, John G. McCurry, Hartwell, Georgia, "when eight years old, learned the air of this tune from Mrs. Catherine Penn." That was therefore in the year 1829.
 Text passages in the secular ballads which remind of those in the fasola song are seen in 'In Old Virginny', where we read:

 I am a man of constant sorrow,
 I have seen troubles all my days.
 I'll bid farewell to old Virginia,
 The place where I was partly raised.

 We see also in 'Awake, Awake', how the poor wayfaring stranger appears as "your true love" who "is going away."

(George Pullen Jackson, Spiritual Folk-Songs of Early America, 1937; Dover, 1964, pp. 71-72)

~Masato


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Burke
Date: 03 Jan 02 - 06:11 PM

Something's not adding up here. I can't find that Wayfaring Stranger was in early editions of the Sacred Harp. I'm sure if it was in in the 1844 ed, the words would not be listed now as 1858. The Social Harp is from 1855.

The Sacred Harp, Cooper ed. has kind of odd 1908 arrangement in 4/4 by Eld. C.G. Keith.

The Sacred Harp 1991 & earlier Denson revision has a 1935 arrangement in 3/4 & by John M. Dye. The footnote in the 1971 ed. says: "Strangely enough this now well-known southern folk song did not appear in any edition of the Sacred Harp prior to the 1936 Denson Revision. For that edition the music and words were re-arranged by John M. Dye of Birmingham, Alabama."

I'm going to check further & see what I can find out if it was in the Sacred Harp 1st edition or not.


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Subject: Lyr Add: I'M A PILGRIM
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jan 02 - 09:02 PM

Wayfaring Stranger - The song appears under the title I'm a Pilgrim, No. 45 on p. 43, in The Southern Zion's Songster, 1864, Raleigh, NC.

First verse and chorus:
I'm a pilgrim and I'm a stranger,
I can tarry but a night,
Do not detain me, for I am going,
To where the fountains are ever flowing.

There the glory is ever shining!
O, my longing heart, my longing heart is there,
Here in this country so dark and dreary,
I long have wandered forlorn and weary.

I'm a pilgrim, etc.

There's the city to which I journey;
My Redeemer, my redeemer is its light,
There is no sorrow nor any sighing,
Nor any tears there, nor any dying.

I'm a pilgrim, etc.

Farewell, dreary earth, by sin so blighted,
In immortal beauty soon you'll be arrayed!
He who has formed thee will soon restore thee!
And then thy dread curse shall never more be.

I'm a pilgrim, etc.

Note that there is no chorus about going over Jordan; I'm a pilgrim and a stranger is the 1st line of the chorus here. The references are indeed confusing. The Sacred Harp 1844 reference in the ballad Index, Univ. California-Fresno is probably an error.
The Southern Zion's Songster is reproduced in its entirety on the Univ. North Carolina website http//docsouth.unc.edu/imls/zion/zion.html


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Jan 02 - 10:14 PM

To: Matato Sakuai ... Are you aquainted with George Pullen Jackson's "White Pilgrim?" Bob Nelson


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Subject: Lyr Add: I'M A PILGRIM
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jan 02 - 10:48 PM

In "Hymns For the Camp," 1862 2nd ed. rev. and enl., p. 124, a slightly different version of I'm A Pilgrim appears. This hymn seems to have been a favorite in the South during the War Between the States. Does it appear in Northern hymnals of that time, for use by soldiers, as well?

I'M A PILGRIM

I'm a pilgrim and I'm a stranger,
I can tarry but a night.
Do not detain me, for I am going
To where the rivers are ever flowing.

There the sunbeams are ever shining;
I am hoping for the sight,
Within a country unknown and dreary
I have been wandering, forlorn and weary.

Of the country to which I'm going,
My redeemer is the light;
There is no sorrow nor any sighing,
Nor any sinning nor any dying.
I'm a pilgrim and I'm a stranger,
I can tarry but a night.

Published by the General Tract Agency, Raleigh, NC, for the Confederate Soldiers.
This hymn book is reprinted in its entirety in the Univ. NC website, Documenting the South, docsouth.unc.edu/hymns/hymns.html#hymns123


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Subject: Lyr Add: POOR PILGRIM
From: masato sakurai
Date: 04 Jan 02 - 12:42 AM

To Deckman,

The version in George Pullen Jackson's White Spirituals in the Southern Uplands (1933; Dover, 1965, p. 271) is from DT 169 (Dett, Religious Folk-Songs of the Negro, 1927, p, 169) and is tilted "Poor Pilgrim", which is as follows:

POOR PILGRIM

1. I am a poor wayfaring stranger,
I sometimes know not where to raom;
I heard of a city called heaven,
I'm striving to make it my home.

2. Sometimes I'm both tossed and driven,
I sometimes know not where to raom;
I heard of a city called heaven,
I'm striving to make it my home.

3. My friends and relations forsake me,
And troubles roll round me so high;
I thought of the kind voice of Jesus,
Saying "Poor pilgrim, I'm always nigh."

The Traditional Ballad Index has this entry:

Tossed and Driven (The Poor Pilgrim)
DESCRIPTION: "I am a poor pilgrim of sorrow, I am left in this wide world to roam... I've started to make Heaven my home." "Sometimes I'm so tossed and driven. Sometimes I know not where to roam." The singer has left his family; after death he hopes to see them again
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1926
KEYWORDS: religious death travel
FOUND IN: US(So)
REFERENCES (1 citation): Randolph 610, "Tossed and Driven" (2 texts, 1 tune)
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "I Am a Pilgrim"
Notes: This song instantly made me think of "Man of Constant Sorrow," and also of "Wayfaring Stranger," but I cannot tell if there is any connection. And "pilgrim" songs all sound alike somehow. - RBW
File: R610
(The Ballad Index Copyright 2000 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.)

~Masato


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jan 02 - 02:30 AM

Wayfaring Stranger = I'm a Pilgrim
The thread Lyr Req Wayfaring Stranger contains a version from Cayce, 1914, (with chords in separate message), posted by Okiemockbird, and a version from Odum and Johnson, 1925, which supposedly was written by Bishop Allen of the African Methodist Episcopal Church on his deathbed (date not determined yet).
Here


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Burke
Date: 04 Jan 02 - 11:15 AM

Another place that has hymn stories is Reporterinteractive They do a weekly History of Hymns column that you can find under the reviews tag. The site is being reworked & right now you have to do a search on History of Hymns to find the old ones in their files. The site administration assured me that once they finish reconfiguring the History of hymn archive will be back.

My friend, who had examined copies of all Sacred Harp editions, says Jackson apparently made a mistake when he said it was in the 1st ed. He said, "Jackson clearly made a mistake, which I think he may have acknowledged later." The 20th century dates I gave above are accurate for the Sacred Harp versions.

Here's a citation for an article with more information. Many libraries have it, but not mine. I'll get a copy through ILL & summarize it when I can.

AUTHOR(S): GARST, JOHN F. TITLE: Poor Wayfaring Stranger: early publications. JOURNAL NAME: THE HYMN VOLUME: 31 DATE: 1980 PAGE(S)/ISSUE: 97-101 n2


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 04 Jan 02 - 11:29 AM

Thanks everyone for all these resources. I'm still trying to digest all the information. I've always loved the stories behind hymns but have not been able to find sites on the Internet which discuss them.


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jan 02 - 11:47 AM

Burke, if this is the Guest Garst from the Univ. Georgia who has been contributing to the thread on John Henry, I hope he has some solid data this time. In the thread, he gives an email address- you might ask for a copy of the article if he is the same man.
John Henry


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jan 02 - 11:59 AM

In Reporter Interactive, search using Search History: if "of" is included, evey article with "of" in the title comes up.


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Burke
Date: 04 Jan 02 - 02:11 PM

The Garst is the same. It's easier for me to get the article through the library, though. I will e-mail & ask John to drop in. If I'd know he been around before I would have done so as soon as my first source told me about the article.

Deckman, I don't know what Jackson has on the White Pilgrim. There is a variant on it called The Lone Pilgrim in The Sacred Harp. That's a very different song as it is based on the life a travelling preacher who was well known in his day for going around dressed all in white.


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Subject: RE: hymn stories?
From: Burke
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 06:31 PM

I have the article on Wayfaring Stranger. I have already posted variant words from it & will summarize the article in the Wayfaring Stranger thread.


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