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What are other names for the accordion?

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GUEST,Len Wallace 15 Nov 01 - 12:27 AM
Bob Bolton 15 Nov 01 - 12:37 AM
katlaughing 15 Nov 01 - 12:49 AM
Liz the Squeak 15 Nov 01 - 01:57 AM
sian, west wales 15 Nov 01 - 04:54 AM
katlaughing 15 Nov 01 - 05:23 AM
GUEST,jockmorris 15 Nov 01 - 08:16 AM
MMario 15 Nov 01 - 08:27 AM
MudGuard 15 Nov 01 - 09:28 AM
CarolC 15 Nov 01 - 09:44 AM
Celtic Soul 15 Nov 01 - 10:33 AM
CarolC 15 Nov 01 - 10:44 AM
Deckman 15 Nov 01 - 10:55 AM
Celtic Soul 15 Nov 01 - 10:57 AM
Uncle_DaveO 15 Nov 01 - 11:03 AM
Bill D 15 Nov 01 - 11:06 AM
Bill D 15 Nov 01 - 11:08 AM
CarolC 15 Nov 01 - 11:15 AM
Bill D 15 Nov 01 - 11:19 AM
Mr Red 15 Nov 01 - 11:21 AM
GUEST,BigDaddy 15 Nov 01 - 01:57 PM
Jon Freeman 15 Nov 01 - 04:55 PM
CarolC 15 Nov 01 - 05:01 PM
Barry Finn 15 Nov 01 - 05:29 PM
Jon Freeman 15 Nov 01 - 07:13 PM
CarolC 15 Nov 01 - 07:35 PM
alison 16 Nov 01 - 12:22 AM
open mike 16 Nov 01 - 01:36 AM
GUEST,mark.hiscock@nf.sympatico.ca 16 Nov 01 - 02:39 AM
GUEST,Sam Pirt 16 Nov 01 - 03:08 AM
GUEST,Boab 16 Nov 01 - 04:07 AM
4stopDave 16 Nov 01 - 06:59 AM
Bob Bolton 16 Nov 01 - 07:36 AM
Bob Bolton 16 Nov 01 - 07:41 AM
Bob Bolton 16 Nov 01 - 07:43 AM
English Jon 16 Nov 01 - 07:44 AM
GUEST,Spot (at the Kennels) 16 Nov 01 - 08:08 AM
Mike Byers 16 Nov 01 - 08:19 AM
CarolC 16 Nov 01 - 10:20 AM
Jon Freeman 16 Nov 01 - 10:49 AM
CarolC 16 Nov 01 - 10:57 AM
GUEST,guest 16 Nov 01 - 11:04 AM
Jon Freeman 16 Nov 01 - 11:56 AM
CarolC 16 Nov 01 - 12:24 PM
Jon Freeman 16 Nov 01 - 07:22 PM
GUEST,Darrell 16 Nov 01 - 07:40 PM
Bob Bolton 16 Nov 01 - 09:24 PM
GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com 16 Nov 01 - 10:54 PM
Crane Driver 17 Nov 01 - 07:13 AM
pavane 17 Nov 01 - 02:16 PM
CarolC 17 Nov 01 - 05:24 PM
Crane Driver 17 Nov 01 - 07:56 PM
Bob Bolton 18 Nov 01 - 04:39 AM
Bob Bolton 18 Nov 01 - 04:53 AM
Bob Bolton 18 Nov 01 - 04:53 AM
Jon Freeman 18 Nov 01 - 05:40 AM
Bob Bolton 18 Nov 01 - 07:19 AM
CarolC 18 Nov 01 - 11:28 AM
Eric the Viking 18 Nov 01 - 12:10 PM
Bob Bolton 18 Nov 01 - 09:45 PM
Mr Red 21 Nov 01 - 03:21 PM
CarolC 21 Nov 01 - 05:07 PM
Jon Freeman 21 Nov 01 - 05:17 PM
Rich(bodhránai gan ciall) 21 Nov 01 - 06:18 PM
Bob Bolton 21 Nov 01 - 09:28 PM
Bob Bolton 14 Dec 03 - 10:30 PM
Bob Bolton 14 Dec 03 - 10:34 PM
JohnInKansas 15 Dec 03 - 01:18 AM
The Fooles Troupe 15 Dec 03 - 01:45 AM
s&r 15 Dec 03 - 06:05 AM
GUEST,Ndolo Ojukwe 15 Dec 03 - 07:15 AM
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Wilfried Schaum 15 Dec 03 - 11:19 AM
Glen Reid 15 Dec 03 - 11:48 AM
Don Firth 15 Dec 03 - 02:17 PM
GUEST,Spot 15 Dec 03 - 02:27 PM
AKS 16 Dec 03 - 03:29 AM
GUEST 16 Dec 03 - 04:24 AM
The Fooles Troupe 16 Dec 03 - 11:18 AM
Bob Bolton 16 Dec 03 - 09:51 PM
The Fooles Troupe 16 Dec 03 - 10:00 PM
Bob Bolton 17 Dec 03 - 10:16 PM
The Fooles Troupe 17 Dec 03 - 11:00 PM
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GUEST,grumpy 21 Mar 11 - 11:11 PM
Uncle Phil 21 Mar 11 - 11:37 PM
Dave Hanson 22 Mar 11 - 03:28 AM
Monique 22 Mar 11 - 08:01 AM
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Subject: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,Len Wallace
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 12:27 AM

Hi Friends,

Okay, this sounds like a perfect opener for a joke about accordions, but I am searching for other names for "accordion".

Leadbelly called it a "windjammer".

South African workers often called it "squashbox".

I recently heard it refered to as something else by northern native people.

The "poor man's piano" and "Stomach Steinway" have also been used.

If anyone knows of any such alternative names, please let me know.

Many thanks,


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 12:37 AM

G'day Len Wallace,

I presume you mean the little button accordion (as played by Leadbelly).

The simple, German-style ones with only a simple "spoon" valve for bass are legitimately called melodeons (and lots of Pommies and Irish illegitimately call the more complex accordions by that name).

I played for Croatians once and they called my German button accordion armonica Triestina (which mistakenly atributes it to the Italians).

BTW: I thought that squashbox to South Africans was the simple German concertina ('Scholers' and similar cheap models sold to low paidworkers.

Of course, all accordion can be called "nipple pinchers"

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 12:49 AM

G'day, Bob, nice to see you!

My dad always called them "squeezeboxes."


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 01:57 AM

Manners forbid me from posting what I call them.... but I have to share a house with 8 of them, including 2 piano accordions..... so I know of what I speak!

LTS


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 04:54 AM

A Welsh member of several N.Wales based groups calls his a 'cordial' - a name which he picked up from an old man (I think in the Lleyn penninsula).

sian


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 05:23 AM

buttonbox


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,jockmorris
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 08:16 AM

Spawn of Satan?:-)

Scott


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: MMario
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 08:27 AM

"polka piano"


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: MudGuard
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 09:28 AM

Quetschn (Bavarian, engl: squeezebox)

Schifferklavier (German, engl:seaman's piano)

Ziehharmonika (German, engl:pull harmonica)

Bob,
German button accordion armonica Triestina (which mistakenly atributes it to the Italians).
Not necessarily. Triest was part of Germany/Austria during its history so it depends on what moment in history the expression "armonica Triestina" was invented.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 09:44 AM

I use squeezebox a lot. And I frequently just say 'box'.

And of course when I'm talking to my own accordions, I use terms of affection like "you beautiful sweet thing".


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 10:33 AM

:::giggle!!!!:::

My fave, used on my sister in moments when we were both hanging around our parents house for the holidays or the like,

"That thing"

As in, "Are you going to start playing that thing now?" Or, "When are you going to put that thing away?"

However, considering the evil grins she'd get when I would ask, I can only surmise that mirth was had on both sides. :D


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 10:44 AM

Playing the accordion is revenge enough upon anyone who hasn't got the subtlety and wit to be able to appreciate such an incredible instrument.

;-)


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Deckman
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 10:55 AM

How about ... "boat anchor!" Bob


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 10:57 AM

LOL!!!

Well said! ;D


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 11:03 AM

When I was a kid, it was the ay-cor-deen!

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 11:06 AM

"Lady of Pain"


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 11:08 AM

I guess that 'should' be "Lady of painS" for true anagrammatical effect.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 11:15 AM

Sure, Bill D. But we both know that you own two of them ;-)


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 11:19 AM

not me...*grin*...my good wife does. She actually PLAYED one 6-7 years ago, too...I have a tiny little Melodeon which I can play maybe two tunes on,,


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 11:21 AM

so how many melodeon player does it take to change a light bulb?

Well it depends wheter you are pushing or pulling
er doesn't quite work on accordian players.
don't cajunnuts refer to theirs as button accordians, with UK nomenclature it is usual to call diatonic ones with buttons - melodeons.
come to think about it, John Kirkpatric has a button accordian that is diatonic on the buttons but not on the chords or is it the other way round? Isn't that what Jimmy Shand (fawn fawn) played with?


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,BigDaddy
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 01:57 PM

...wheezing spawn of Satan? Just kidding. :)


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 04:55 PM

Mr Red, the naming of button boxes gets confusing... As far as I understand it, the ones we normally call melodons lack the full chromatic scale in the combination of thier diatonic rows (forgetting any addional buttons for accidentals) a G/D box is an example of this.

Some boxes which still have diatonic rows have a full chromatic scale between the rows, e.g. a B/C box and I believe they are more likely to be referred to as chromatic accordians.

Jimmy Shand's famous box was a 3 row British Chromatic Accordian - a Hohner Morino which I believe he designed. I believe that "British Chromatic" means that the 2 or 3 diatonic rows are a semi-tone apart from each other. As far as I know the bass of his used the standard piano accordian system.

Anyway, that is how I understand things at the moment. Maybe Bob Bolton or someone else will come along and set me straight.

Jon


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 05:01 PM

I have been told that one name for a fully chromatic button accordion is 'continental chromatic'.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 05:29 PM

I've never heard anyone use this term, so forgive me if I use the name of the Airy Beast. Barry


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 07:13 PM

Carol, I stand to be corrected on this but I think a "Contental Chromatic" plays the same note regardless of the direction of bellows - a chromatic button accordian yes but a rather different beast to the "British Chromatic" and the diatonics mentioned.

Jon


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Nov 01 - 07:35 PM

I think you and I are in agreement, Jon. I was just pointing out the name I heard for the type of accordion that has buttons and that is fully chromatic (same note both directions). My post was not in response to your post. I actually was unaware that there are accordions that are part chromatic and part diatonic.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: alison
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 12:22 AM

I call mine my "musical chest expander".. and live in hope that someday it'll work!!! *grin*....

also heard to be called "that #$%@#^$ thing"!!!

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: open mike
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 01:36 AM

a concertina is related- in a small sort of way...


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,mark.hiscock@nf.sympatico.ca
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 02:39 AM

Hi, Here in Newfoundland we have a few names for the accordion the most come is "the squeezebox" but others are the button box,the Carbonear computer. Carbonear is a community here on the island.The hohnerbox, the push or pull box. Welcome to heaven here's your harp, welcome to hell here's your accordion. All the best in your search cheers from NFLD. Mark


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,Sam Pirt
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 03:08 AM

Hi

Well theres lots of names but some I know -

In Norway & parts of Sweden it i called a 'Dragspel'

In the Basque region of Spain its called a 'Trakixia'

I also know it as a squeezebox & squeezer weezer.

Cheers, Sam


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 04:07 AM

I own and play four "cat-boxes", "squeezeboxes," or just plain old "boaxes". I was known to John Kirkpatrick [with hands in the air in horror]as "the f-sharp man" in the days when I used to sing a lot in that particular "non-key", although I could play perfectly comfortably in C, G D, OR F. Since I play in a group nowadays, my f-sharp days are more or less over. [What a lot o' guff to write about the names given to an accordion!! Sorry--I'll shut up---]


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: 4stopDave
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 06:59 AM

I've heard many people here in Newfoundland call them "cardeens." It's really "accoridon" with a wonderful local dialect-twist.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 07:36 AM

G'day,

Jon Freeman: You are pretty well right about Jimmy Shand's 'Morino' - in fact Hohner brought that one out as a Shand Morino. In making the distinction of calling only the German style, simple bass, models 'meleodeons' I am following Hohner's catalogue classification ... and keeping in mind that most old players on the Australian mainland

CarolC .. and you get it right about the "Continental Chromatic". This has an arrangement that is now used (in mirror image) as the "Free Bass" that you find on 180 bass piano accordions ... or as the bass and of Continental Chromatics (once know as 'Chromaticas' in Italy). It has the same note in and out, varying by a semitone in the "backwards slanted" angle, 2 semitones in the "forward slanted" angle and 3 semitones horizontally ... believe me, it made sense to someone ... and it works for some bloody good players!

BTW: CarolC - You seem to use the sense of "diatonic" somehow meaning "different note in and out". This is just coincidence. If you have a simple (kid's toy) piano accordion with no 'black notes', it plays a diatonic scale of 'C' ... in or out. A British Chromatic Accordion, in (say B/C/C#) plays a different note in and out on any one key ... but is fully chromatic ... as is a full 30 (or more) key Anglo-chromatic concertina, despite having 2 rows of diatonic German concertina at its heart. Maybe, I'm just pushing my pedant barrow ... but I feel we have enough problems getting folks to understand the instruments when we get it right ... let alone muddying the waters with terms of dubious accuracy.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

BTW: There are three different variations on this: "B" Tuning, "C" Tuning and Norwegian or "A" ? Tuning ... ?

open mike: In strict definitions, a concertina is a specific class of accordion.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 07:41 AM

Oops,

The bit about old Australian mainland players calling button accordions (~)ay-cord-eens ... much as DaveO cites ... fell off (?!?).

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 07:43 AM

Er yeah ...

And in Tasmania, where I lived in the late '70s, they more commonly called button boxes 'melodeons' (maybe reflecting more British influence ... ?

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: English Jon
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 07:44 AM

Doesn't the concertina pre-date the accordion? Or am I mistaken? When was Wheatstone, 1830 ish?

EJ


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,Spot (at the Kennels)
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 08:08 AM

I call mine Trevor.....

Spot


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Mike Byers
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 08:19 AM

Air-powered room divider.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 10:20 AM

Thanks, Bob Bolton. I was pretty confused about what the terms 'chromatic' and 'diatonic' meant before your explanation, and I will admit that I had gotten the impression, based on things I had been told, that chromatic meant same note in and out, and diatonic meant different note in and out.

I'm still confused about all of that, but I now know not to use the terms in the way I have been.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 10:49 AM

Carol, I hope I've got this right. Consider all the piano. If you start with a C, go though the white notes to another C that is the scale of C major.

If you look at the way the notes are spaced we get:

C-D = 2 semitones (there is a (black) note inbetween)
D-E = 2 semitones
E-F = 1 semitones (no (black) note inbetween)
F-G = 2 semitones
G-A = 2 semitones
A-B = 2 semitones
B-C = 1 semitone

These gaps between the notes give us the diatonic scales and hold true for keys other than C. It just happens that the natural key of the piano is C.

The paino covers all the possible semitone intervals, i.e. C,C#,D,D#,E,F,F#,G,G#,A,A#,B and this gives us our chromatic scale. (Note that notes can have more than one name, e.g. A# and B flat are the same note). An instrument that can play all these notes is said to be chromatic.

In the case of some instruments including some button accordians, the ability to play a chromatic scale is achived by using 2 diatoninc scales. Consider a C/C# box.

On one row we have:
C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C... - diatonic.
On the other row we have:
C#,D#,E#(=F),F#,G#,A#,B#(=C),C#... - again diatonc

Hope that helps.

Jon


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 10:57 AM

Thanks Jon. That's great. Two questons:

You said that the natural key of the piano is C. Is that because there are no sharps or flats in a C scale on the piano?

Also, are you saying that all of the notes in a chromatic scale can be present in a diatonic instrument, but that if they are not in the same row, that makes it a diatonic instrument?


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 11:04 AM

My dad calls it Zuharmonie

or simply

Die Musik


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 11:56 AM

1) Yes Carol, I don't know that the term is correct but that is what I meant with the piano. I would also apply it to other instruments e.g. it is possible to play in G on a D whistle but the natural scale to me would be the one where you block all holes and simple remove one finger at a time to get the next note which on a D whistle gives you Dmajor.

2) No Carol, as long as all the notes are there, the instrument is chromatic. It is just possible to use 2 diatonic scales to make a chromatic scale.

To confuse matters further, there are some oddballs like my Hohner Erica D/G melodeon where the first buttons on each row (stupid place to put them) provide the missing notes in the chromatic scale between my lowest G and the next G on the G row but do not cover the full range of the instrument...

Jon


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 12:24 PM

Thanks Jon.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 07:22 PM

Just noticed I called my 2 row a melodeon (as I would do) but I had read Bob Bolton's post and am starting to think maybe it would be a good idea to use something like the Hohner Catalog as a standard in naming these instruments - at least that way we might all get to know what the other person is talking about!

Jon


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,Darrell
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 07:40 PM

Down hear in Southeast Texas (half way between Texas and Louisiana) we affectionately refer to the accordian as an "Abbeville Air Compressor".


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 09:24 PM

G'day English Jon, "... Doesn't the concertina pre-date the accordion? Or am I mistaken? When was Wheatstone, 1830 ish? ..."

Buschmann's first accordion patents, in Germany: 1821 Important improvements by Damian in Vienna: 1829 (both to what we now call melodeon / button accordeon, depending on size and layout)

Wheatstone's first patents on 'English' concertina: 1827 Important improvements on concertina; 1840

The German concertina is a German blending of Wheatstone's concertina size box with a split right hand end of an accordion. the Anglo-chromatic is that with added row(s) of semitones OR alternate direction notes.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com
Date: 16 Nov 01 - 10:54 PM

I heard Norwegian computer...

here about when Russia was crossing the Elbe I think in WWII...they liberated the Hohner factory (I can't absolutely confirm this but think it was a newspaper story..) Can you imagine the music? Although it might not have sounded quite as good to the Germans.

mg


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Crane Driver
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 07:13 AM

The Button (or Piano) Radiator?

The stereo iron lung?

As my pal Keith says - "A gentleman is someone who can play the accordion - and doesn't!"


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: pavane
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 02:16 PM

Crane Driver - is your pal Keith by any chance a melodeon player?


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 05:24 PM

Does anyone know of any names or terminology that can be used to refer to boxes that are the same note in and out, and boxes that are a different note in and out, in order to differentiate them, rather than having to go through a big explanation like I just did?

Crane Driver, I can't speak for the (gentle)men, but you can tell you're friend Keith for me that I play the accordion and I ain't no lady.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Crane Driver
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 07:56 PM

Yup, Keith plays a three-row Hohner, and he's the guy Pavane is thinking of.

And a concertina is only a type of accordion in the same sense that a guitar is a type of banjo.

Stands back and waits for explosion


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 04:39 AM

G'ady CarolC,

The problem is that, even if you do know exactly which accordion you mean ... it's no help if the person you talking to doesn't. I just try to be consistent:

A piano accordion is fairly well understood ... nobody but a real fanatic knows about "Free Bass" (extra bass that can play a non-chorded, 'classical' bass line) ... only Arabic players or fans know about ¼ tone piano accordions ...

Push-pull button accordions range from melodeons (which don't have any real choice of chords. 'Vienna' models, with a few more chords, slip up to being 'Button Accordions. If there are 2 or 3 rows a semitone apart they are Chromatic Button Accordions (British or Irish vaguely delineated by size and style). The ones with 'Stradella' bass (piano accordion style) are all 'ritish Chromatic'. There is a particular variety popular in Europe, especially France, with 2½ rows of buttons and with the middle dominant note sounding both in and out ... The Italians have a bunch or regional models ... and they all have their own names - but are all harmonicas (armonicas?) to most Europeans.

The 3 to 6 row, same note in and out, chromatics are called 'Chromaticas' ... by the italians, but nobody (much) else. they also come in at least 3 different schemes, with national preferences.

If you're not confused yet ... I have to sort myself out before I try to get you more puzzled!

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 04:53 AM

G'day again ...

I forgot: Crane Driver - most musical textbooks class concertinas a sub-set of accordion. That is entirely reasonable as they are technically no different ... they certainly are different in detail - but the range of concertinas has more difference from each other, than concertinas have from accordions!

I do note that The Oxford Dictionary and its offspring define a concertina in its own terms - without need to call up the image of an accordion ... but that is intended for people capable of understanding English.

The The Oxford Compamion to Music (the old Percy Scholes 1-volume) starts of by referring you to: The Reed Organ Family"(!) and then makes the hoary old claim that the concertina was invented by Sir Charles Wheatstone as an improvement on Buschman's early (1821) accordion (or akkordion?).

You can take your pick ... BTW: The Guitar and Banjo are both members of the lute family ...? (A long way down the branches ... but sharing the critical characteristics (if little else).

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 04:53 AM

G'day again ...

I forgot: Crane Driver - most musical textbooks class concertinas a sub-set of accordion. That is entirely reasonable as they are technically no different ... they certainly are different in detail - but the range of concertinas has more difference from each other, than concertinas have from accordions!

I do note that The Oxford Dictionary and its offspring define a concertina in its own terms - without need to call up the image of an accordion ... but that is intended for people capable of understanding English.

The The Oxford Compamion to Music (the old Percy Scholes 1-volume) starts of by referring you to: The Reed Organ Family"(!) and then makes the hoary old claim that the concertina was invented by Sir Charles Wheatstone as an improvement on Buschman's early (1821) accordion (or akkordion?).

You can take your pick ... BTW: The Guitar and Banjo are both members of the lute family ...? (A long way down the branches ... but sharing the critical characteristics (if little else).

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 05:40 AM

What's a Club model Bob? Is that the one you said is particularly popular in France or is it something else again?

Jon


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 07:19 AM

G'day Jon Freeman,

The Clubs are generally built in the standard box for a small 3-row (~ Hohner's Corona II or III) - usually in 2 keys ... more like 'Band' keys eg Bb/F or Eb/Bb .. plus a half row of semitones in the inside position ... at least that keeps 'em all in one place, instead of the end of the row positions on the boxes I play (keeps the thumb working, anyway).

I understand that they are the popular folk box in France, Switzerland &c. I see the logic, but I haven't seen one in a set of keys that would get me any distance in a session, so i haven't really played one. I guess they would be great if you had a lot of friends in bands - the marching ot woodwind variety!

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 11:28 AM

Thanks Bob Bolton.

The 3 to 6 row, same note in and out, chromatics are called 'Chromaticas' ... by the italians, but nobody (much) else. they also come in at least 3 different schemes, with national preferences.

Are these the ones that I was referring to as 'continental chromatics'. That's the term I heard used for an accordion that is essentially the same as a piano accordion except with buttons on the treble side rather than keys.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 12:10 PM

I've always called them "Knacker catchers" as once a melodian player friend described an accident he had with an accordian, many years ago. I've called them that since the 70's.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 09:45 PM

G'day,

CarolC: Yes ... Chromatica seems to be an older, European name and Continental chromatic is what they are called by people who don't see themselves as Continental. they all have a 'heart' of 3 rows ... the extra rows of buttons are simply remote-links, allowing different fingering, but playing the same reed(s). The only 6-row models I have seen were being played by Russians.

Eric the Viking: I knew there was another good reason for my preference for playing standing up!

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 03:21 PM

Oh what a joy is a common language!
OK if diatonic doesn't refer to the obvious derivation as in di'vided then what is the term for playing a different note in and out?
mouth organs, concertinas, melodeons? What describes their facility and distinguishes it from the monotonically keyed?
or did I miss something here?
Were they called bitonic, no surely they are free reeds?
Syntonic (SOED CD ROM - Designating or exhibiting the responsive, lively type of temperament which is liable to manic-depressive psychosis). I hear a few votes there, none platonic though.
tectonic - no that might describe the bellows
Ah! of course twotonic (well it was invented by a German).
cast your votes NOW with a **BG**.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 05:07 PM

Mr Red, are you using the word 'monotonic' to refer to 'same note in and out'?


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 05:17 PM

No idea what the name is.

For the record, according to my dictionary (The Chambers Dictionary}, diatonic comes from the Greek diatonikos. - , from dia - through and tonos - tone.

To confuse the issue, one could consider "pentatonic" where the bit before the tonic does refer to 5.

Jon


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 06:18 PM

Melodians are indeed a separate instrument and don't burn nearly as long as an accordion.

(Only grinning slightly)

Rich


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 09:28 PM

G'day Mr Red,

In some quarters, same note in and out is called 'single action' and the alternative 'double action' (... just a little too close to the operating systems of pistols ...). Anyway, this is confused by Wheatstone calling large English system concertinas (basses, specially voiced 'clarinet' or 'oboe' models &c) that sound on the push and have huge 'flap valves' to refill the bellows quickly on the draw ... 'single action'.

There seems to be no agreed term - and folk musicians are too indivualistic for one to appear in the near future.

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 10:30 PM

G'day again 24½ months later,

I looked through this thread because it was linked in Foolestroupe/Robyn Hayes' rather schlolarly thread:
Piano Accordion: for the Recycled Musician.

One thing I noticed was that the confusion (& "folk etomolgy" ... ) about the meaning and derivation of diatonic had not been cleared up. Most of the problem comes from approximations of Latin suggesting "di(a)" means (~) "two". It does not - the Greek meaning is "through" ... so diatonic should mean "through the tones" - but it really means "through the notes, or, as in my Concise Oxford, "... involving only notes proper to the prevailing key without chromatic alteration ...".

This means it has only the "natural" notes of one "key" (or "scale"). Any additional notes are "chromatic" in that they add additional "colours" ... the semitones that are needed for constructing other keys" or "scales.

This means that the basic layout of 9 - 11 buttons per row is "diatonic" ... even though the next row - or the button at the end of that row - may have additional semitones. The typical 3-row button accordion imported into Australia has half a dozen 'semitones' on the 3 rows - plus a few more across the adjoining rows. One of these can (with lots of manoeuvring) play nearly 2 octaves of fully chromatic scale ... and, maybe, John Kirkpatrick actually does ... but very few others do! As the arrangemment is not intrinsically for playing chromatic scales, rather for adding occasional semitones, it is still fair (if confusing!) to call such accordions diatonic.

Since the adjoining (~ diatonic) rows, at semitone intervals, of a "British Chromatic" are intended to be played chromatically ... the name "chromatic" is fair enough for these instruments - despite their "diatonic" format.

I hope that hasn't just confused you ...

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 10:34 PM

Errr... Quick, pedantic, revisit:

I was suggesting it was the Latin "bi-" (~ = two/double) that caused the confusion ... I do know that "di-" can mean two/double from the Greek "dis" ... but the term diatonic uses the Greek "dia" (~ = through).

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 01:18 AM

Bob B -

I think it's di - atonic, ... a scale based on repetition of two nonmusical or "atonic" intervals. (We're talking free reeds here, yes?????)

<insert grin if needed>

John


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 01:45 AM

I came on this radical thought a while ago ---

The western music scale is composed of two "parts"

Let's look at C Major

C E G B & D F A C

disagree? Well let's just see what I can do on the Accordion...

the first part goes well with the C Major chord, and the second part goes well with the G Dim 7th chord...

incidentally, you can also fit in the F Maj chord

F A C E


and if THAT doesn't confuse you ...

the Greeks had "tetra-chords" .... allegedly this is the basis on which our scales are built...
:-)

and, thank you, Boob Bolton, my name's Rob_i_n   ;-)

No.... I'll just let the typo stand.... :-)

So Bob, I'd like to "borrow" part of your pedantic description for my "Opus"...

Hope your silence on "The Opus" reflects tacit approval overall, rather than disinterest caused by me getting things totally screwed up...
:-)

Robin


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: s&r
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 06:05 AM

My understanding of Harmonica and Armonica comes from Harmony - harmonicas and different-note-draw-and-blow instruments can be used to provide simple chords by using adjacent buttons/holes. EG C harmonica plays C chord on the blow and variously G G7 and Dm on the draw.

The original key of keyboard instuments I thought was A but most (church) music was minor in character, so the relative major is C.

Does that make any sense?


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,Ndolo Ojukwe
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 07:15 AM

The instruments to be found in Africa, made from ground nut wood, tinned steel and ivory buttons are often referred to by the disrespectful name "OBINGO OBANGO"


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 07:59 AM

My EB says

Diatonic: a musical term signifying literally "through the tones", otherwise music in which the notes employed are confined to those of the key, major or minor, in which it is written. Hence diatonic music gives a general impression of strength, simplicity and solidity as distinguished from the more restless and poignant character of chromtic music in which notes from foreign keys are introduced by accidentals. The diatonic was one of the three Greek genera of scale.

The phrase "notes ... confined to those of the key" is what I always remembered from my Music Theory days...

Robin


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 11:19 AM

Addition to MudGuard's post:
Quetschn (Bavarian) is short for germ. Quetschkommode, composition of quetschen v/t to squeeze, to squash, to press and Kommode n. f. chest of drawers, Am. bureau - an uppity version of the simple box. Reminds me of the fifteen men on the dead man's chest. It's time for drink and the devil to do for them, too, if they are still squeezing their seaman's piano.

Wilfried
(enforced drill with the accordeon in my youth)


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Glen Reid
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 11:48 AM

My old friend " Newfoundland,s Favorite Son" the late Harry Hibbs often referred to his accordion as a "SQWOCKBOX"
His instrument of choice was a 2 row Hohner, of the push pull variety,which produced more than its share of sqeacks and sqwocks
What I wouldnt give, to hear it again.
Cheers,Glen


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 02:17 PM

Stomach Steinway?
Belly Baldwin?
Pinch piano?
An unduly noisy device for imprinting presumably decorative vertical pleats in the manipulator's abdomen?
A millstone around one's neck?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,Spot
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 02:27 PM

I used to play in a 4 piece . the lass played accordion which was dubbed "The 'Effin Whiffenpoof"!!!

                         Regards to all... Spot (Not the dog or In the kennels) ..just plain old Spot !!   Happy Christmas...!!


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: AKS
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 03:29 AM

Here in Finland it is also known - by certain people - as pirun keuhko(t) 'the devil's lung(s)'...

AKS


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 04:24 AM

This is true, I once saw a guy trying out a piano in a shop.
He was stretched out on the floor with his right hand reaching up to play the keys. I thought he was drunk but he turned out to be an Accordian player.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 11:18 AM

The three Greek genera of scale -> diatonic, chromatic, enharmonic.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 09:51 PM

G'day Robin,

So the piano accordion comes in both chromatic and (in Arab quarters, at least) enharmonic genera ... ?

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 10:00 PM

Hi Bob,

I have heard that some boxes were "retuned" in Africa (no more specific info than this) to differernt tuning scales that are quite differetrnt to the Western Equally Tempered scale. I am anable to conceive which of the three genera that would put them in... :-)

BTW, how are you going with some of that info on "Piano Accordions in Australlian Social & Historical Contexts"... ;-)

Robin


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 10:16 PM

G'day Robin,

There are stories of various degrees of "retuning" of accodions &c from all around the place ... often it just means adjusting the 'voicing' or 'tremolo' to local taste (ranging from the Irish totally "dry" ... as near as possible to exact tuning of all reeds to the same pitch ... so the accordion sounds like concertina ... ? - to the really wide "French Musette" degree of tremolo - just begging to play Under the Bridges of Paris ... ).

In other cases it can be taking a diatonic instrument back to more 'pure' intervals, which is possible since they don't roam off into distant key signatures that demand the 'tempered scale'. My friend Richard Evans, concertina maker / repairer in the Blue Mountains behind Sydney, has tuned some 20-key Anglo concertinas in such a modified scale ... and they are really beautiful ... in their 'home' keys!

In the case of Arab world's ¼ tone accvordions, they seem to look just like standard piano accordions - but I've never laid hands on one (although there must be a few about Sydney, these days) - so I presume they have spaced out the chromatic notes to allow for the (enharmonic ... ?) ¼ tones. Certainly, Africa has a host of 'microtonic' (or enharmonic) scales in its traditions - often credited with being the source of non-standard intervals used in Blues and Jazz.

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 11:00 PM

Hi Bob,

just picked up your comments of a few days ago in the FolkAustralia Yahoo Forum - little plug there - oooooo, should be careful what I say, taking into account other current threads... :-)

ahhh,
well, about 1/4 tone accordions, I read that a tuner had been asked to set up a P/A with normal notes in one direction, and quarter tone tuned notes in the other - that's the limit of my wide "experience" on that subject. :-) Apart from other casual mentions of "weird Arab tunings" etc comments I have seen around.

As to whether they are 1/4 tuned to the "normal western equally tempered scale" - I ASS-U-ME so... :-)

Of course, if you are only going to play in a very limited number of Keys (and things like Irish Folk used to play a lot in mainly G/D for instance - because of the pipes and whistles!) then you COULD very well tune "microtones" to the "Just Intonation" (especially for "Diatonic" boxes which will have a restricted range anyway) - and there's lots of other Mudcat threads that have talked the legs off that pig!

For isntruments tuned "Just" - they can sound really great - if not played with "Equally Tempered" Instruments. Of course, human voices (and non-fretted string instruments) can do either naturally...

Robin


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Rowan
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 12:04 AM

Another (Oz) term for piano accordion, that I haven't seen in the thread, is "potato masher" but that may be a term only favoured by concertina players who dislike their instrument being called a "squeezebox".

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,Dazbo at work
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 08:59 AM

Aren't the terms CarolC is looking for are Unisonoric and Bisonoric? (Although I have a feeling that Uni means it only plays one note in one direction and a different note in the other and Bi goes both ways the same? - might be double bluffing myself there though)


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,grumpy
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 11:11 PM

A couple of years ago me and my pal were at Newcastleton festival trying to find a tunes session. There were sessions filled with singers, and more than one pub dominated by a single accordian player, but we couldn't find a tunes session. We renamed accordians 'discordians' and went home dissapointed.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 11:37 PM

I hear that Lead Belly called his a Windjammer. I've always liked that.
- Phil


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 03:28 AM

Paddy Moloney used to call them ' maccordions ' because he disliked them but I have seen him play a melodeon,

Dave H


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Monique
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 08:01 AM

In France it can be called "piano à bretelles" (piano with straps)


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 08:04 AM

".... accompanied by Joe Bloggs on the zebra-crossing!"

Regards


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 08:13 AM

"I hear that Lead Belly called his a Windjammer."

Windjammer was a name used in Australia by early German Settlers (1800s) for a certain type of diatonic button box. The labeled period photos I have seen of players show often a fairly large box, with anything up to 7 pull stops. I was of the impression that it was a brand name (it was commonly used in certain Aussie areas), but I have no documentation to hand.

This was decades before the tales of Leadbelly calling his small instrument by that name.

Robin


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 08:16 AM

"What are other names for the accordion?"



George, Zelda, Moonbeam--there are many to choose from.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 08:23 AM

SQUEEZE BOX
The Who - 1976


Mama's got a squeezebox
She wears on her chest
And when Daddy comes home
He never gets no rest
'Cause she's playing all night
And the music's all right
Mama's got a squeezebox
Daddy never sleeps at night

Well the kids don't eat
And the dog can't sleep
There's no escape from the music
In the whole damn street
'Cause she's playing all night
And the music's all right
Mama's got a squeezebox
Daddy never sleeps at night

She goes in and out and in and out and in and out and in and out

She's playing all night
And the music's all-tight
Mama's got a squeeze box
Daddy never sleeps at night

She goes, squeeze me, come on and squeeze me
Come on and tease me like you do
I'm so in love with you
Mama's got a squeeze box
Daddy never sleeps at night

She goes in and out and in and out and in and out and in and out

'Cause she's playing all night
And the music's all-right
Mama's got a squeeze box
Daddy never sleeps at night


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bernard
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 09:34 AM

Bizarrely, the featured instrument on that track is a (5-string?) banjo!

Someone once asked me if the squeezebox in that song might be a euphemism, but I pointed out that it couldn't be, as a euphemism is a large brass instrument...!!

(I've already got me coat!)


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 09:40 AM

LOL

Imagine, two instruments of the devil on one track.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Bernard
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 09:41 AM

;o)


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,thirdpotato
Date: 10 Oct 17 - 11:05 PM

This has been a fascinating thread! I was researching it for a period piece I'm writing in 1930s Germany, and was looking for nicknames one might call them.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Oct 17 - 01:59 AM

My father used to call both my Wheatstone and my grandfather's Enrico Bertin accordion "Gamonkas" which are obviously from the same root as harmonica.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,Leadbelly
Date: 11 Oct 17 - 04:51 PM

In Germany pure bottom accordions are called Bandoneons...Got one from my father bought in 1920 and it's still working...


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 17 - 06:09 PM

I sincerely hope that was a typo, GUEST Leadbelly.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: BobL
Date: 12 Oct 17 - 03:15 AM

Strictly, Bandoneons are a particular type of accordion, named are their inventor Heinrich Band. They're used almost exclusively by Argentina's tango bands.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 01:50 AM

Bandoneon is a type of concertina rather than a type of accordion.

Someone asked (way back) about Arab-tuned (24 notes to the octave) accordion. I used to play one in a Middle Eastern orchestra. They use the Western/12-note piano/keyboard layout, with selected notes retuned to half-flat or half-sharp notes. You might have E-half-flat on the black E flat key in one octave, whereas in the other octave it is E-flat. So, you just have to play your tune in whatever octave contains the necessary notes. They don't try to put in all of the theoretically possible 24 notes, they just select the more commonly needed ones like B half flat, A half flat...


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 10:36 AM

Scan Tester used to play one


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Leadbelly
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 02:35 PM

Dear guest, it wasn't a typo. Selected this name on mudcat long time ago. Because I still like his music...


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: malky_w
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 02:37 PM

I've heard Knacker's Piano, generally in Scotland they're called a "box" or "bog(c)sa in Gaelic.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: GUEST,guest alwyn
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 03:52 PM

Go from me,come to me!.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 13 Oct 17 - 06:43 PM

Leadbelly, I don't think it's your name that might be the typo - "bottom" accordions? Yeah, they need a lot of wind to work rhem!


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: Leadbelly
Date: 14 Oct 17 - 12:49 PM

Ooops, Tattie, button! Thanks to you and guest for correction!


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: bruceCMR
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 03:47 PM

Accordion to a recent survey, 95% of people won't notice if you replace a word with a musical instrument.


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Subject: RE: What are other names for the accordion?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 04:42 PM

the gadget[ in ireland]


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