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AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE

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catspaw49 11 Sep 01 - 11:13 PM
Sorcha 11 Sep 01 - 11:26 PM
Sorcha 11 Sep 01 - 11:29 PM
wysiwyg 11 Sep 01 - 11:32 PM
mmm1a 11 Sep 01 - 11:49 PM
momnopp 11 Sep 01 - 11:49 PM
flattop 11 Sep 01 - 11:55 PM
GUEST,maire 12 Sep 01 - 12:03 AM
Art Thieme 12 Sep 01 - 12:08 AM
DougR 12 Sep 01 - 12:13 AM
catspaw49 12 Sep 01 - 12:13 AM
CarolC 12 Sep 01 - 12:15 AM
DougR 12 Sep 01 - 12:15 AM
Lepus Rex 12 Sep 01 - 12:19 AM
GUEST,Chip2447 12 Sep 01 - 12:23 AM
catspaw49 12 Sep 01 - 12:29 AM
flattop 12 Sep 01 - 12:30 AM
katlaughing 12 Sep 01 - 12:42 AM
flattop 12 Sep 01 - 12:57 AM
katlaughing 12 Sep 01 - 01:19 AM
CarolC 12 Sep 01 - 01:42 AM
flattop 12 Sep 01 - 01:57 AM
katlaughing 12 Sep 01 - 02:16 AM
Troll 12 Sep 01 - 02:42 AM
Ella who is Sooze 12 Sep 01 - 03:55 AM
Jelly bean 12 Sep 01 - 04:19 AM
mooman 12 Sep 01 - 04:22 AM
Wolfgang 12 Sep 01 - 04:44 AM
Fiolar 12 Sep 01 - 05:53 AM
InOBU 12 Sep 01 - 06:01 AM
kendall 12 Sep 01 - 06:03 AM
GUEST,BanjoRay 12 Sep 01 - 06:10 AM
Trevor 12 Sep 01 - 06:10 AM
English Jon 12 Sep 01 - 06:21 AM
CarolC 12 Sep 01 - 06:43 AM
English Jon 12 Sep 01 - 06:47 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 12 Sep 01 - 07:12 AM
InOBU 12 Sep 01 - 07:58 AM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Sep 01 - 08:06 AM
KitKat 12 Sep 01 - 08:12 AM
GUEST,from skarpi Iceland. 12 Sep 01 - 08:42 AM
RoyH (Burl) 12 Sep 01 - 08:51 AM
Jingle 12 Sep 01 - 09:05 AM
Amos 12 Sep 01 - 09:11 AM
Midchuck 12 Sep 01 - 09:16 AM
Mrrzy 12 Sep 01 - 09:31 AM
Willie-O 12 Sep 01 - 09:34 AM
Pseudolus 12 Sep 01 - 09:37 AM
GUEST,lynnoel@att.net 12 Sep 01 - 09:53 AM
Naemanson 12 Sep 01 - 09:56 AM
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Subject: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 11:13 PM

We heard from annamil earlier in the day and she was upset but okay......Check thread two I think.

One more thread..........

PREVIOUS THREAD #4

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 11:26 PM

It just keeps getting worse............all I can do is pray for all on the planet. The paranoia has hit little old T-town Wyoming.......Mr Sorcha was home (finally) for supper break at 8:30 our time.......as he was leaving, we saw two males crossing our front lawn......."Gentlemen, you need to come back over here, please"......all was actually OK, but holy crapola. Gasoline here is stilll under $2/gal, but not on the Interstate near here......o dear, where will it end?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 11:29 PM

800 reported dead at the Pentagon............


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 11:32 PM

fixed broken link


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: mmm1a
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 11:49 PM

There are no words to describe this feeling, shock,horror, sadness come no where near. my prayers and thought to all. mmm


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: momnopp
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 11:49 PM

I just noticed on katlaughing's post on thread 4 something that probably lots of others already saw:

9-11 (today's date in US format) 911 (emergency number dialed in US)

UGH!

My voice goes out to all humanity in a wish for peace.

JudyO


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: flattop
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 11:55 PM

Perhaps I miss-interpreted what you were saying Spaw. Sorry.

Troll wrote, 'Those who are guilty must pay. Those who are innocent should not.'

We can completely ignore the fact that he used a weaker verb to protect the innocent than revenge the guilty. What I'd like to know is, if these enemies of the U.S., feel that Americans have been guilty of destroying their families and their lives and they say, 'Those who are guilty must pay, those who are innocent should not,' where does the game end? who has the high moral ground? who has the right to kill who?

The other issue that is being ignored in the heat of the moment is that this attack proves that our western countries are completely vulnerable to attack from people with limited resouces. I thought that we were vulnerable in hundreds of areas but I would never have imagined such a dramatic attack on major centres. Billions of dollars in armaments and all the conceit in the western world did not prevent this attack.

This must be obvious to anyone that we pick to be our enemies. What if they feel that justice will be done if they kill one of us for each one of their killed? Are we ready for games like that?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: GUEST,maire
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 12:03 AM

In spite of the understandable stress and tension that have cropped up occasionally in today's threads, I'd just like to say 'thank you, all' for being out there. The support and concern you folks have shown has been a real comfort to many of us.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Art Thieme
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 12:08 AM

yes


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: DougR
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 12:13 AM

Flattop: "people with limited resources." What in the world leads you to believe that these Terriorists had limited resources, and that such an attack could have been launched with "limited resources?" This attack was well planned, well executed, and it required a great deal of money to train and equip the perpetrators! Where are you coming from, my friend?

DougR


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 12:13 AM

Flattop, I think after reading your last two posts we are on similar, if not exactly, the same page.

What if they feel that justice will be done if they kill one of us for each one of their killed? Are we ready for games like that?

And even moreso, if, and I mean IF, it is Islamic Freedom Fighters, they would view that as an honor and great victory.....which is what makes it even more frightening because we don't understand that mindset.....and we need to or we can never stop the cycle.

I'd go on, but I'm tired tonight, and saddened by the day. Perhaps the next few days will bring more reason to us all.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 12:15 AM

Art, you may be ready for games like that, but I am not.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: DougR
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 12:15 AM

Ok, Spaw, my friend, then I have to direct my remarks to you as well as flattop, since you are so in accord with his views.

DougR


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 12:19 AM

How would a bunch of guys with box cutters be expensive? And so they could steer a plane into a building... So could you, Doug, with minimal training. And a lack of money has no effect on someone's ability to plan such an attack.

---Lepus Rex


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: GUEST,Chip2447
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 12:23 AM

Peace to all of the families who have lost loved ones today. I havent read all five episodes of the thread and if I'm repeating someone I apologize. May those guilty burn in whatever hell they believed in, May those innocents bask in whatever afterlife they believed in.
May the innocent Muslims who live in the USA be spared from ignorant retribution.
Pax....


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 12:29 AM

What Lepus said.

Actually Doug, they certainly DO have resources, but in the grand scheme of things and on a comparitive basis, I'd have to say they were pretty limited. But it did take experience at this type of thing, committed people to do it, a place to train, and the ability to organize and execute a well coordinated plan.

Let's all just concentrate on the ones who are dead and injured, on their families and friends.........And let's act with reason and do things that will end terrorism worldwide and not just garner revenge for this attack.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: flattop
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 12:30 AM

A lot less money than any one of your aircraft carriers, Doug?

I agree spaw. It's a confusing day for all of us. I feel that no one should be condemned or censured for their thoughts on a day like this. However, we may have to rethink carefully before taking any action. Perhaps or brains will work better in the morning or a few mornings down the road.

Anyone who can't sleep tonight, try writing your feelings to mudcat or PM mudcatters or send e-mails. Do it anonymously if it helps. Don't worry about what other people think. Let it out. Scream it, cry it, whisper it, but let your feelings out.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 12:42 AM

Just had a good cry with my one child near enough to wrap my arms around. She has so many friends who are of draft age, as well as my sister's son. This has to be resolved without sending our young ones out to wholesale slaughter!


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: flattop
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 12:57 AM

I think a draft would be highly unlikely as a result of this business. The U.S. has turned to technology and away from massive amounts of manpower. All our opinions floating around the internet will also be a problem for military leaders. Any action will be second guessed and discussed worldwide.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 01:19 AM

Good point, flattop, thank you and I hope that you are right.

She just nailed the feeling I have had ever since awakening to this. She was in my womb when I saw the first Star Wars movie. She has been raised on them. She said she has been thinking all day of what Obi-Won- Kenobi said when Darth Vader and the evil prince, sorry can't remember his name, blew up the home planet. Obie-Won, said, "I feel a disturbance in the Force." My baby hold her hand over her heart and said, with tears running down her cheeks, "Mom, I felt a disturbance in the Force."

I wish my grandsons and their parents were not living next to the nuclear sub-base in CT. I wish all of my children were here to wrap my arms around.

katgrieving


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 01:42 AM

Moving this over from part two, since it was posted after parts three, four, and five were started, and it might be missed by a lot of people.


Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS--PART TWO From: GUEST,alison kelley Date: 12-Sep-01 - 01:36 AM

My friend Darren Bohan is missing. He was on the 102nd floor of I believe the South Tower. Darren is a regular at Fredy's Old Timey Jam in Brooklyn and lives in Queens. I don't know how to reach his family or other friends. Any info or news please call me 718-636-6341 or email alicat@nyct.net Please ask everyone you know!!!!!!!

Alison Kelley


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: flattop
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 01:57 AM

I've never been a Starwars fan, kat, not a fan of most war movies, but I understand about the force. You and your daughter and Sorcha and the other mothers have to be one of the forces pushing for a better outcome. You might even have to start a dialogue with 'the enemy mothers' because things aren't going so well with the forces that have been assuming power.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 02:16 AM

flattop, I have known of women's groups, in the 80's, who were trying to do just that. Maybe some good can come of this if it motivates us to rekindle those efforts, because I think you are right. If we can have Mothers Against Drunk Driving, why not Mothers Against Terrorism/Wars, or simply Mothers for World Peace? Doesn't sounds as good as MADD, but we need to do it anyway. The Mothers for World Peace, could be MoWP and have a mop as a symbol.:-)


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Troll
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 02:42 AM

A big jet is a complex piece of machinery if you are doing take-offs and landings. But you could learn to "steer" one in a couple of hours if you understood the principals behind what you were doing.
But to learn this requires a big jet to practice on and it's unlikely that anyone short of a national government would have access to one.
Osama bin Laden may have been the one who carried out the hijackings and crashes, but he had to have backing from higher up. I'd guess Iraq.
Flattop, sorry about the weak verb. I do agree with you about the draft, tho. Where does it end? Good question. But if we don't answer this act of terrorism against our nation strongly, it will only be the first of many.
It may be the first of many anyway but we have to do something. If we let it slide...

troll


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 03:55 AM

I am absolutely reeling, shocked, horrified, upset and stunned by the news that hit our computer and television screens at work here in Wales.

We all stopped working and gathered round the teles in silence, all of us shocked. None of us could take in the size, and carnage of the days happenings

The first thing I did, was to phone my friend in Washington to make sure that she and hers are all ok. Thankfully they all are, but my heart goes out to all those who have lost their loved ones or still have no news of their friends and family.

I was meant to be planning to travel out to Washingtion to see my close friend, though at the moment we (my friend and I) are suspending all plans of travel, until the situation becomes more clear. But right now both my friend and I want to go see our best friend just in the flesh and give her a big hug.

I'm so sorry that this kind of terrible tragedy happened. It makes me physically sick, unhappy and angry, I just hope that things can be done for those trapped, and that all those who have lost family and friends can count on the support of their friends and family around them.

With Regards

Ellax


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Jelly bean
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 04:19 AM

It's all been said but just wanted to say my thoughts are with you all - words cannot express the shock and horror I feel at the events of yesterday.I keep seeing the footage on TV it's like something you would see on a movie - but this is real!! My heart goes out to the victims and their families. Kind regards Ann


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: mooman
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 04:22 AM

As the true horror unfolded yesterday we were in tears and speechless at the inhumanity and barbarity of these acts and the turmoil and suffering they have wreaked. Patricia and my thoughts are with you all in the US and especially for the victims and their families. Those responsible and those who support them must swiftly be brought to justice but for now our thoughts are especially with the rescue efforts.

Richard (mooman)


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 04:44 AM

No words.br> But I have to type to post 'No words'. In Germany, many thousands have gone to the American embassies have laid down flowers or lit candles and walked away with in silence.
I join them. Everything else I have I give you, but

no words. Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Fiolar
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 05:53 AM

Many experts were pontificating yesterday on who, why and other aspects. One person reckoned that it would be child's play to steer the aircraft at the target once you had it in sight. One of the things which made me so angry was the sight of so many Palestinians "celebrating." Bin Laden if it was him doesn't give a tinker's curse about the Palestinians. He has got his own madness and hatred of the West to sustain him. A comment in the Guardian this morning about suicide. According to an Islamic religious leader when asked if Islam endorsed suicide. He said and I quote. "I'll tell you what the Prophet said. That if a person commits suicide, then in the hereafter that person will be in the hell-fire committing that suicide over and over again. For instance, if a person jumped off a tall building, his punishment in the hell-fire would be to relive that over and over again. He will go to a tall building and jump off, and go back to the top and jump off again. For all eternity. So suicide is frowned upon completely in Islam because it represents an act of lack of faith. Unquote. So much for the paradise promised by the fanatics who encourage their followers to do the unspeakable. I'll bet you won't see Bin Laden strapping explosives to his evil self.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: InOBU
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 06:01 AM

Hi folks. Wars against terrorism can't be won. There is no nation to surrender, and no land to "hit with surgical strikes" so nations respond to terror with terror. No end. Pray for peace, but more important WORK for peace.
Larry and Genie from Downtown New York City.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: kendall
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 06:03 AM

say, Hurricane, maybe I misunderstood, but you said you were not allowed to use your real name on Mudcat? Please explain. I've always used mine.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: GUEST,BanjoRay
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 06:10 AM

The night before these disgusting acts I was watching the Discovery channel here in the UK. There was an interesting programme on about the world's highest buildings. They had some very proud guy on saying that the World Trade centre was designed to withstand the direct impact of a Boeing 707, the biggest airliner when it was being designed. Whatever anyone tells you about how safe things are, don't believe a word of it; no-one really has a bloody clue! My deepest sympathy goes to everyone affected by this.

Ray


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Trevor
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 06:10 AM

I haven't read through all the other threads. I don't know how to describe the horror and sadness Helen and I are feeling at the moment. I want to express sympathy and solidarity but I don't have the vocabulary to do it. I've been on the receiving end of a terrorist attack, in Birmingham in 1974, and the world becomes a different place. I don't give a shit about the whys and wherefores - it just hurts. God bless, whichever your god is.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: English Jon
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 06:21 AM

Just read through the entire thread again. Can't believe it. From the U.K. news, it seems Bin Laden is by far the most likely culprit. What is the military position of the U.S? Some 'catters have spoken of WAR, has a state of war actually been declared? Do we know anything further about the bombing of Kabul? The news here says that the Pentagon is still operational - is this true? There are a lot of astonishingly brave people out there who are behaving entirely selflessly to sort this mess out. Thoughts and prayers to all.

Jon Loomes


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 06:43 AM

The Pentagon is still operating. The military isn't saying whether or not they have any concrete evidence that Bin Laden is the one responsible, so they're not giving any definitive statements on their position. They say they want to find out who is responsible, and hold them accountable. As of when I turned off the news at 5:00 AM EDT, there was no declaration of war on anyone.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: English Jon
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 06:47 AM

Thanks Carol.

EJ


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 07:12 AM

The BBC are now broadcasting as yet unconfirmed reports, that there were 8 hi-jacked planes, 4 of witch were shot down by the US Air Force.
We have enquired about donating blood for use in America, it appears that USA does not accept Brittish blood, this is because of the risk of BSE (Mad cow disease) contamination.We were told this by local hospital (Hull Royal Infirmary).
I know it is of very little real help, but we are all thinking of you.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: InOBU
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 07:58 AM

Hi John, just spoke to friends in England, and let all know, that you are thinking of us is great help in deed. All the best Larry, from Downtown New York


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 08:06 AM

Woke up this morning and it was a few moments before I remembered about all this. It's as if we're holding our breath, waiting to see what happens next, and knowing it won't be anything good.

"Not all Muslims are good Muslims". And not all Christians are good Christians, and not all Jews are good Jews, and so what? "The only good Injun..."?

I can't see that the mindset of the people who did this terrible thing is all that different and alien. It seems to be made up of two components which are all too readily available..

The first component is the willingness to kill. A conviction that vengeance in the face of terrible injustice is just, and that, once it is war, any way of striking at the enemy is permissible - we've seen that expressed in these threads, time and time again. And even those who reject it have no difficulty in understanding it.

And the second components is a willingness to die for what we believe in.And is there anything unfamiliar about that in any of our cultures. Hunger strikers in Ireland - "Remember the Alamo" - Masada. What's so different?

And what's the big difference between "Jihad" and "Crusade"? (And I'm sure that there's an equivalent term in other cultures).

This isn't something alien and strange and incomprehensible. It's not Space Invaders. It's people with the same kind of motives as the rest of us and capable of doing appalling things, and of justifying them to ourselves.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: KitKat
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 08:12 AM

To all catters

I am so sorry for your loss and appalling tragedy. Everyone I've spoken to in the UK feels that we are all now under attack in the Western world and that things will never be the same again. It's hard to see where we can go from here.

Pat


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: GUEST,from skarpi Iceland.
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 08:42 AM

Hello all, as I told all last night we had preyer time in most Icelandic churches and today as this is written My nation flag has taken down to half in all Iceland. I will come again later, All the best skarpi Iceland.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 08:51 AM

To all my dear friends over there. I have been visiting America for nigh on thirty years now. I have, without fail, been met with friendship, hospitality, and unstinting kindness. I have grown to love your country and to regard it as my home away from home. Right now I am in shock as I see the pictures of the barbarity that has been wrought upon you. My thoughts, and those of my wife, are with you at this awful time. May the injured recover. May the dead rest in peace. May the bereaved families find some small measure of comfort. May the evildoers be found and punished. God Bless America. ROY and Elaine Harris.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Jingle
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 09:05 AM

Am shocked more than I can say by this act of utter wickedness. I hope with all my heart that those of you waiting to hear from loved ones will get the news you are hoping for. I hear on the local news this lunchtime in Yorkshire that our rescue services are mobilising ready to fly out to help. This is a tiny island but we will give you whatever help we can. My heart and mind are full of thoughts for you. Peace and music go together, violence has no place here.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Amos
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 09:11 AM

No state of war has been declared here. One exists, but we can't declare it because the enemy failed to leave his card.

Re suicide and the Prophet's words, I don't believe the data is applicable. These people think of themselves as soldiers dying for the glory of God. Doesn't qualify as suicide but as an act of religous war.

A


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Midchuck
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 09:16 AM

FWIW, I want to apologize for any offensive posts yesterday.

I was not fully rational.

I realize that that implies that I am fully rational today. But that's a matter of degree, I guess...

Peter.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 09:31 AM

If this attack originated outside the country in which it was carried out, it WAS an act of war whether we chose to call it that or not.

Retaliation is not an answer, it merely heightens the justification already felt by the perpetrators.

We need to see MORE footage of the dancing in the "enemy" streets. People outside of that world need to understand what Americans represent to those in that world. That is what needs to be addressed, how America is perceived, not how we are. Let's not change what we do - eliminate the personal liberties that allowed this to happen, start a complete war, or do anything else with our hindbrain and other body parts rather than our intelligence. Dubya, I'm talking to you!


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Willie-O
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 09:34 AM

You're a good guy, Peter (Midchuck). Everybody's been right out of it the past 24 hours.

I think North America woke up with post-traumatic stress, just beginning. Going to start another thread.

If there's anything that can be done...the focus should be on helping people right now.

Bill.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Pseudolus
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 09:37 AM

I've been reading all of this and I understand the logic behind the comments that you can't win a war with terrorism, and the children celebrating are just puppets and only think it's a party, and we need to think about the innocent people etc. etc. etc. My question to all of you is what exactly IS the solution?? If Bin Laden is the culprit, and we find him, do we jail him? Kill him? If so will the people left behind be frightened by this? I think not. Will they retaliate? Definitely. This needs to be dealt with in a way that the people responsible can understand. The ability to organize and execute an act like this needs to be eliminated. It will not be pretty. More lives will be lost. But there is no reasoning with someone who wants you dead, is willing to kill you and who thinks it a badge of honor to die trying. To not strike back to me would mean that yesterday's loss of life was in vain and worse, it would mean that it could happen again. To allow that would be not only tragic but just plain stupid......

Frank


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Subject: Joy Bennett checks in OK for JGirls & friends
From: GUEST,lynnoel@att.net
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 09:53 AM

this just in from Joy:

Hi Lynn and all

- hope to finish this before the provider disconnects in the middle for the third time. I haven't have email access till today and not through my regular provider. Thanks so much for your kind thoughts. I am fine and was in Brooklyn when the tragedy occurred. The devastation is unimaginable.

The rest of Johnson Girls and families are fine as well, though shaken. Alison's friend Darren worked on the 102nd floor of WTC and we haven't heard from him as yet (but hoping he's safe, but not able to get through), so she's not in a good place mentally. - Her brother Brad and friend Dan are with her. Please pray for Darren and the rest of the still yet anaccounted for.

Other NYC chantey folk who have benn in contact and are fine are:David Kleiman, Ellen Weiss, Dan Milner, Jan Christensen, Frank Woerner, Matt Bram. I will update as emails come in and I have service.

I managed to make it home with one of my co-workers and we picked up 3 hitchhikers on the way, our small contribution to the cause. My friend marsha and I will try to give blood today. The blood banks were overwhelmed yesterday by all the people wanting to help.

Still waiting to hear from some friends and colleagues who worked in the WTC. Some have called me safe at home, others no word as yet. A feeling of helplessness is all over right now.

One thing -- people say many things about NYC and New Yorkers, but in a crisis and in a pinch, the people of this city band together to help one another. It is truly an amazing place.

Hope you are well.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE
From: Naemanson
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 09:56 AM

Yesterday evening Rebecca and I went to Martin's Point in Portland to have a picnic supper before I went to Roll & Go rehearsal. We watched the bay shimmer under blue skies, two sailboats enjoying the late afternoon, wavelets lapping the rocks, and thought of what was happening in New York. It was hard to believe the suffering that was going on as we enjoyed the peaceful scene and each other's company.

As I said yesterday I cannot condone any violence being used as retribution for what happened yesterday. The deaths of Afghanis canot bring back the dead in New York. The shattered lives of the innocent victims cannot be rebuilt by dropping bombs on the guilty.

There may be some measure of satisfaction in flexing our enormous muscles but does that do any real good? Does the bully feel any better even when his attack is justified? Can our unilateral action be better than the concentrated action of a group of allies?

Let justice prevail, not revenge. Let time pass so calm and rational minds can identify the guilty parties and work with our allies to bring them to the justice they deserve. Their deaths under a rain of US bombs will make them martyrs to the cause. Their jail time will not.


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