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AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE

Related threads:
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catspaw49 11 Sep 01 - 02:13 PM
catspaw49 11 Sep 01 - 02:17 PM
Metchosin 11 Sep 01 - 02:18 PM
wysiwyg 11 Sep 01 - 02:20 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 11 Sep 01 - 02:22 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 Sep 01 - 02:24 PM
Big Mick 11 Sep 01 - 02:25 PM
Sorcha 11 Sep 01 - 02:26 PM
SharonA 11 Sep 01 - 02:28 PM
Sorcha 11 Sep 01 - 02:30 PM
Clifton53 11 Sep 01 - 02:31 PM
wysiwyg 11 Sep 01 - 02:33 PM
Sorcha 11 Sep 01 - 02:36 PM
John Hardly 11 Sep 01 - 02:39 PM
LR Mole 11 Sep 01 - 02:42 PM
Lonesome EJ 11 Sep 01 - 02:44 PM
Harry Basnett 11 Sep 01 - 02:50 PM
SINSULL 11 Sep 01 - 02:53 PM
catspaw49 11 Sep 01 - 02:55 PM
Llanfair 11 Sep 01 - 02:56 PM
Bill D 11 Sep 01 - 02:56 PM
sophocleese 11 Sep 01 - 03:00 PM
Burke 11 Sep 01 - 03:05 PM
Diva 11 Sep 01 - 03:11 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Sep 01 - 03:11 PM
weepiper 11 Sep 01 - 03:12 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Sep 01 - 03:16 PM
vectis 11 Sep 01 - 03:33 PM
Naemanson 11 Sep 01 - 03:33 PM
Deda 11 Sep 01 - 03:33 PM
GUEST,lynnoel@att.net 11 Sep 01 - 03:35 PM
Naemanson 11 Sep 01 - 03:37 PM
mike putt 11 Sep 01 - 03:42 PM
Lonesome EJ 11 Sep 01 - 03:43 PM
Allan C. 11 Sep 01 - 03:47 PM
Lonesome EJ 11 Sep 01 - 03:47 PM
simon-pierre 11 Sep 01 - 03:50 PM
Mrrzy 11 Sep 01 - 03:50 PM
Sorcha 11 Sep 01 - 03:51 PM
Charley Noble 11 Sep 01 - 03:52 PM
Dorrie 11 Sep 01 - 03:53 PM
katlaughing 11 Sep 01 - 03:53 PM
Gareth 11 Sep 01 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,oldtimemusic1@aol.com 11 Sep 01 - 03:58 PM
Lonesome EJ 11 Sep 01 - 03:59 PM
SINSULL 11 Sep 01 - 04:05 PM
Sorcha 11 Sep 01 - 04:09 PM
Kim C 11 Sep 01 - 04:12 PM
Amos 11 Sep 01 - 04:13 PM
Sorcha 11 Sep 01 - 04:15 PM
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Subject: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:13 PM

Let's move threads again.....I am out of words to talk now.....

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:17 PM

PREVIOUS THREAD

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Metchosin
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:18 PM

The American Red Cross has appealed for blood donations from the whole of the US.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:20 PM

1-800-GIVE LIFE to learn how to donate blood near you, or www.redcross.org. It is shipped where it is needed.

Please, everyone, find someone nearby to hang onto, and let yourself try to feel your way through this.

Be the voice of reason and love among those around you struggling to deal with this.

To argue among ourselves here at Mudcat is to replicate the lack of understanding that was made manifest today.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:22 PM

Apart from donating blood, is there anything practical that we can do?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:24 PM

Give blood, donate clothing, blankets, food...

Standard emergency acts...

Time for the human race to shine, in the face of adversity!


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:25 PM

Damn...........twice in a week that I have agreed with Clinton. Gonna have to call my therapist..........LOL. Good stuff, Clinton.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:26 PM

We'll have to wait for the air ways to open up before any of it can be shipped, but we can get a back log going. How about a MudCat blood/fund drive? I can't give blood because of health probs, but Mr. Sorcha can--his last donation was 5 wks ago, and he is A-neg.

Our blood mobile is United, out of Cheyenne so I will contact them.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:28 PM

If you can't give blood, give money!


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:30 PM

United Blood Service click a state map for UB donor locations in your state.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Clifton53
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:31 PM

From a large bridge crossing a river near my home, my daughter on her way to school today could see the towers, and on her return after the cancellation of her classes, she could no longer see them in the distance. She's in tears now with the shock of it all.

From the waterfront in my town you can see the smoke from what is left of the towers burning.

My neighbor works in New York. He's not home yet. My sister-in-law works there also. She's not home yet either.

Clifton


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:33 PM

But DO NOT take clothing to the Red Cross-- not their thing.

This is also a reminder that making a personal emergency plan is important.

You can do a LOT to reassure children when this kind of news is up-- here or anywhere in the world-- by making a Family Disaster Plan, and practicing it when events frighten them. All the materials to do it can be found at the Red Cross site-- basic checklists of stuff to have on hand and most important, having two or three places where your family would know to gather, a central person to check in with and report conditions. Most of the people now stuck in Manhattan have no such plan and have no idea how to find one another.

The Red Cross in the US is the only agency designated by Act of Congress to open and administer safe, regulated shelters in time of catastrophe. It does that while FEMA does what it does. But the Red Cross receives no government funding. A donation can be made online at www.redcross.org and it nearly all goes to providIng direct services-- statistics about that are at that site as well.

But IMO the MOST IMPORTANT thing we can ALL do today and in the weeks to come is let yourself grieve, and help others to grieve, this event. If we don't... it will warp many things we love and hold dear, now and for generations to come. There will be all the time in the world to address what needs to happen, after that.

I am going outseide right now to tie a black ribbon around our front yard tree in symbol of that. (There goes that skirt.) Anyone care to join me?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:36 PM

OK, United Blood can't schedule emergency drives because of personell/scheduling problems, but there is a blood drive going on NOW in Llewllyn Nebraska if you are at all close to there. It MUST have been 8 weeks since you gave blood to be able to donate now; plus all the other caveats about donating--surgery, dental, tattoos, etc.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: John Hardly
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:39 PM

We'd better learn to cope because there will be no retalialtion--there can't be.

I've been feeling sick all morning because I just realized that for the first time in our history we have an adversary that knows we are beyond banding together. Other conflicts seemed, at least on the surface to draw us together. Sadly, this, I fear, will merely show how irreversable are our inner conflicts and how little "there" is there to a national pride and patriotism.

"All we got now is true religion..."


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: LR Mole
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:42 PM

Hey, Cliff 53, let us know, OK? I grieve with you all, but any bit of good news...oh, man...


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:44 PM

Just a word to those Mudcatters who may be implying "America...you had it coming", it might be helpful if you confined your remarks to something helpful or comforting, or just kept your mouths shut. I'm not in any mood to listen to self-righteous gloating today.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:50 PM

Our prayeres in the UK are with you all.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:53 PM

A Sikh man gave me a ride home - cab driver. No subways or busses and my glasses had broken. I was blind. As we drove along, a car pulled up next to us. The driver shouted "Fuck you, raghead!"
I am dreading the aftermath of this.
I just got off the phone with my father - 88. So far, everyone is accounted for but one brother. Dad was crying and demanding that the president use nuclear weapons in the Middle East. I tried to reason with him that the whole area would be destroyed and innocent people killed. Maybe, it was not even done by foreigners. He didn't care. He wants revenge.
Another atheist praying sincerely for rational thought. And I still can't cry.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:55 PM

I generally don't read novels, but sometimes......

A few months ago I read a book by Nelson DeMille called "The Lion's Game." Karen and I discussed it a lot because it gave me a better idea of the mindset of the middle eastern terrorist than anything I have ever read of any type.

Let's not fight with each other........Let's remember that right now there is so much to do and so many dead and injured......Wherever you are, like CH said (he CAN be bright sometimes(:<)))...Get involved in finding or starting to work through your local agencies to provide whatever help you can.

They won't take my blood anymore, but they will take my clothing, money, blankets, household stuff.......A lot of people are going to be in need...........And they are all in need of our best thoughts and prayers.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Llanfair
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:56 PM

The whole thing is too enormous to comprehend. I've seen the pictures, and heard and seen a tiny example of the fear, pain and distress that the people close to this disaster are suffering. I can't take it all in.
My thoughts are with the people who have been affected directly and indirectly. Two HUNDRED firefighters lost? I can't even absorb that.
No matter what our responses are to this terrorist act, it will be the politicians who decide what will be done.
God (or equivalent) help us all.
Bron.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:56 PM

no one 'had this coming'...this is a travesty of revenge. We do not know yet exactly who is responsible, but all it took was 4 fanatics with fake IDs who could steer and airplane...bin Laden might be at the core of it, but it was not exactly a high-tech attack....

we shall see...hmmmm?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: sophocleese
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:00 PM

I'll be donating blood here. And anything else that I can.

The news has just reported worries at Whitehorse as a Korean Airlanes Boeing has landed there and its being treated as a hijacked plane.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Burke
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:05 PM

All blood centers in Upstate New York are open until 10:00 for donations. Check Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, & Binghamton.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Diva
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:11 PM

I have been watching this most of the afternoon and I have no words.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:11 PM

Anyone even contemplating using this as a forum to air any politcal beliefs forget it RIGHT NOW. You will play right into the hands of the terrorist. Just remember the dead. Comfort the living. Pray for an end to it.

Peace

Dave


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: weepiper
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:12 PM

My God. I saw the news on CNN 2pm UK time, have been watching with growing horror for most of the afternoon. I feel sick in the pit of my stomach. Love and thoughts from Scotland


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:16 PM

No one "had it coming" - and I haven't come across anyone on the Mudcat saying anything like that. (Apart from some sick GUEST troll starting up a thread which I hope noone will respond to, which is fairly clearly intended to stir up anti-Arab feeling.)

And when more innocent people get killed in some kind of official reprisal, or attacked by some self-appointed vigilante, like the one SINSULL and his Sikh friend ran into, because they look like they might be Arabs or whatever, they won't have "had it coming" either.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: vectis
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:33 PM

Terrible events. All we can do is pray and hope that the attacks end now, before any more innocents die.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Naemanson
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:33 PM

Lynn Noel posted this on the last thread after the link to this one. I am assuming some may not have seen her post:

Subject: Boston report and Blood Drive From: GUEST,lynnoel@att.net Date: 11-Sep-01 - 02:53 PM

Heather reports that Joy Bennett is OK "but has many friends in WTC." Matt Bram also fine. Deb Cowan reports Evy Mayer checked in. No news yet from the Milners or other NY chanteyfolk; let me know if you hear anything.

Ivan Berger offers "if you, or anyone you know, is stuck on the Jersey side and can't get home, have them contact me and I'll try to put them up -- pick them up, if necessary." Ivan Berger Fanwood 908-889-5818 Cellphone 908-553-7477 (I will be out of the house a lot today, but reachable)

Boston local news confirms the Boston-based flights were United #175 (65 aboard) and American #11 (92 aboard). Logan is closed indefinitely, being evacuated and searched. Massport is holding its first news conference as I post, but no word yet on how the terrorists got on board. There were 220 planes departing/arriving Logan between 7 and 9 am (106 departures), and only these two unaccounted for. Both planes were 767s with relatively few passengers (2200 capacity).

Suggestion: there is a national blood shortage, and they're calling for volunteers tomorrow, not today. I will invite Boston-area musicians to go donate together, then ask at the hospital if we may sing for the other donors. If you're in Boston and want to join, contact me offline at lynnoel@att.net. Hope other cities may want to do something similar.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Deda
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:33 PM

A bit of news from CBS that I hadn't seen elsewhere: The date of the attack may have significance: On September 11, 1978, the first historic Camp David accords were signed. In June, a U.S. judge had set this Wednesday as the sentencing date for a bin Laden associate for his role in the bombing of a U.S. embassy in Tanzania that killed 213 people. The sentencing had been set for the federal courthouse near the World Trade Center. No one from the U.S. attorney's office could be reached Tuesday to comment on whether the sentencing was still on.

As for me, I have a call in to my Dr's office asking her permission (which I need) to give blood. Failing that, I am not sure yet, I'll just keep watching for what's needed and what I can do. I'm doing lot of praying--for peace, truth, healing, forgiveness, comfort for the bereaved and the hurt. And I've emailed my kids, both overseas, and my cousin in Boston.


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Subject: Blood drive idea
From: GUEST,lynnoel@att.net
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:35 PM

I'll repost this as my last post crossed threads. The blood drive is requesting donations TOMORROW as they are swamped everywhere today. In the Boston area (actually, probably Cambridge), I will be organizing a group of singers to go and donate blood together, and then sing--songs of peace, tolerance, and hope--for the other donors.I invite any local musicians to contact me at lynnoel@att.net, and hope others in other cities may like to organize something similar.

If you have ideas for songs for such an occasion, I hope we might suggest them to each other. I like the Hope/Encouragement thread at http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=10616#74376

and invite any further suggestions there.

I recognize the anger and the fear as real, and we must address them as individuals and as a country. But I join the voices on this thread that entreat for tolerance and understanding.

When words fail me, and they do today--all I know how to do is sing.

"And if you have been worried that tomorrow wouldn't come Look to see the ones whose lives are following the sun And the hope that springs so clearly from the work they do Will spread a little further when it finds a place in you. We believe, we believe By our work it's so easy to see That the future is more than the following day It's fashioned securely in the clay."

thanks to Bok, Trickett, and Muir for these words of faith.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Naemanson
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:37 PM

SharonA, a jersey barrier is a large concrete fence which you can see along any highway construction project. They have set them up to make a twisting maze entrance into the base. They are searching every car going in. Helicopters are patrolling.

Very serious and scary.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: mike putt
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:42 PM

As already said "no one deserved this " are thoughts and prayers are with you from Ireland


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:43 PM

Anyone who has read this entire string of posts knows what I'm talking about McGrath, and so do you.

As for revenge, it will indeed be sweet if and when the actual killers are identified. Until then, our energies should be devoted to burying our dead and healing our wounded, and not toward the persecution of anyone.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Allan C.
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:47 PM

"Oh, but you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears,
Bury the rag deep in your face
For now's the time for your tears." - Dylan


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:47 PM

What is the date of the "Black September" massacre?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: simon-pierre
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:50 PM

I may have missed it, but have you got any news from Larry?

Mes meilleures pensées de Québec

SP


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:50 PM

My kin are all OK, for those of you who might have been worrying. Kith have yet to be heard from but I assume that's the case for all. Those of you personally unscathed remember, it's sometimes the not knowing, the wait to hear, that's the worst. Anybody who wants to vent to someone who's been there can PM me.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:51 PM

Think for a moment about "collateral damage"--sewer lines, gas mains, no water, what to do with that many bodies (no way can the embalmers keep up), disease, etc.

A RUMOR--Luke came home for lunch and said that he had heard that a military base in Nebraska and Warren AFB in Cheyenne WY were broken into last night and "materiel" stolen.........any confirmation on this?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:52 PM

Our pain is great but I seriously doubt, LEJ, that anyone's revenge will ever be sweet. What's happened is not some prime time TV movie but a defining reality. Even if the decision makers are caught, there will be no adequate compensation for the losses, just continuing pain.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Dorrie
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:53 PM

i'd don't really know what to say...which is a first for me but yes i'm speechless

all our prayers and thought

the dorrie family x


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:53 PM

This is food for thought, received in an email from WyoWoman, who received it from a friend. I think it is something along the lines of what I'd hoped the Dalia Lama might say:

NEWS RELEASE For Immediate Release ARMY GENERALS OFFER PRESIDENT BUSH ALTERNATIVE TO MISSILE DEFENSE SHIELD

Top-Ranking Military Leader from India Proposes "Vedic Defense Shield" for Prevention of War

- NEWS CONFERENCE-
Major General Kulwant Singh
Tuesday, September 11, 10 a.m.
National Press Club, East Room, Washington DC

"Military and diplomatic solutions will never produce lasting peace while enmity seethes in the hearts of the people. The persistent crisis in the Middle East alone proves the inadequacy of paper treaties, and underscores the need for a fundamentally new approach."

-Major General Kulwant Singh

(WASHINGTON, D.C.) A top-ranking army general, who helped lead the fight against terrorism in India for nearly three decades, is coming to Washington, D.C. next week to offer President Bush an effective alternative to his National Missile Defense Shield.

Major General Kulwant Singh, a 35-year career army veteran, backed by a growing number of top military leaders worldwide, will encourage President Bush and other world leaders to immediately deploy "Vedic technologies of defense"-a scientifically proven approach that diffuses regional tensions and prevents conflict.

"President Bush should be commended for his efforts to defend the American people from nuclear attack," General Singh said. "There are critics who argue that the missile shield is untested, costly, and provides no >defense against warheads smuggled in by land or sea. But the President is deploying the most advanced technology he knows. To his critics, I say, >'Show the President a better way.' "Fortunately, now there is a better way. This is why we have come to Washington." Vedic Technologies of Defense Diffuse Acute Social Stress "America and India are great allies. We are bringing to President Bush the best of what India has to offer-the very latest technology in the field of defense," said General Singh. "Research confirms that the outbreak of war begins with rising tensions among rival factions. Conventional means of defense do nothing to address this underlying cause of war: mounting tensions in critical hotspots throughout the world.

"We are offering a proven, prevention-oriented approach, based on Vedic technologies of consciousness, to diffuse acute social stress-and thereby prevent enmity from arising. "Ours is the only new approach with a proven track record-an approach that is backed by extensive published research," General Singh said. How Vedic Defense Works Recent discoveries in the domain of quantum physics and human consciousness, according to General Singh, reveal that the field of consciousness is far more basic and powerful than the nuclear field. "This field of consciousness-termed the unified field in the language of quantum physics-is millions of times more fundamental and powerful than the nuclear force. "We have learned to harness this field through technologies of consciousness that are simultaneously ancient and modern. They are described in the ancient Vedic literature, but they have now become the focus of extensive scientific research. Their application was introduced 25 years ago by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who advocated group practice of Transcendental Meditation and its advanced techniques, including Yogic Flying. To this, Maharishi has added other highly advanced peace-promoting procedures from the Vedic tradition," General Singh said.

More than 50 studies, published in leading peer-reviewed scientific journals, have documented the ability of group practice of Transcendental Meditation and its advanced techniques to reduce societal stress and >violence, and to calm open warfare in war-torn areas. In the mid-1980s this approach was used to quell violence in the Middle East, and resulted in an 80% drop in war fatalities and war-related injuries, according to articles published in the Journal of Conflict Resolution and other scientific publications. Deploying a Vedic Defense Shield in India More than 25,000 meditating experts are now being assembled in India who, General Singh said, will produce an "indomitable influence of peace and coherence in the country. No nation will ever be moved to attack India, as it becomes a lighthouse of peace and coherence to its neighbors and the world. "What better, more humane and cost-effective defense than to prevent the birth of an enemy? Isn't this more likely to prevent an attack than a new arms race that is generating such global fear and heightened hostility towards the US that it might actually provoke a terrorist attack?"

US Department of Peace

General Singh applauded the efforts of members of the US Congress, led by Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), to counter this new military escalation with a US Department of Peace, funded at 1% of the military budget. "Such a department could easily support, even within the ranks of the military, a 'prevention wing' of 10,000 - 20,000 troops trained in Vedic technologies of defense that can prevent the outbreak of war. This should be the true purpose of the military: To keep the peace. Unfortunately, nothing in the current military handbooks trains our soldiers to prevent war. "That is why it is critical now to implement a prevention wing in the military utilizing these proven Vedic technologies of defense," said General Singh, who retired from the military in 1995, and is now Defense Minister of the Global Country of World Peace-a nation without borders founded to "provide a global home for peace-loving people everywhere," and to offer governments "proven, prevention-oriented solutions to critical social problems." General Singh's Itinerary in Washington >General Singh said he is coming to Washington, D.C. to "present to President Bush, and representatives of other peace-loving countries, how to promote invincibility for every nation and permanent world peace by taking recourse to the higher intelligence of Natural Law, which governs the universe with perfect order."


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Gareth
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:54 PM

Horror, shock, foreboding, it's beyond proper expression.

I can only express my sympathy, and pray that clear heads will rule future actions.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: GUEST,oldtimemusic1@aol.com
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:58 PM

MESSAGE TO THOSE WHO DID THIS BE AFRAID...VERY AFRAID.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:59 PM

Charley N, I'm sure you are right. "Justice is sweet" might be a better way of expressing what I meant.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:05 PM

Larry Otway? Any word?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:09 PM

Not yet, Sinsull. Milners haven't checked in either.....


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Kim C
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:12 PM

I have not looked at TV today for any amount of time - are both the towers completely gone, or just demolished from the middle up?

Two of my very dearest friends were on vacation in NYC just a week and a half ago. Mere days.

Where's Larry?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Amos
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:13 PM

Some comments on the mindset of perpetrators. I spoke earlier about the fanatacism of Islam. However, having just listened to an interview on NPR with Dr. J. Post, a researcher who has interviewed dozens of convicted terrorists, I believe there is a much simpler insight into the fanatacism that characterizes many terrorist acts whether by Mohammedans, Christians, or others.

The common denominator that seemed behind the tranquil determination of those he interviewed who had committed horrible destructive acts was that their motivatiopn was inclusion, praise and status amongst their peers.

In fact those servinbg time in jail were more set in the view than ever, because being in jail for the group gave them increased status points.

They are not doing it for the afterlife. They are doing it as a way of gaining acclaim, admiration and standing amongst what they perceive as a group of peers. This vision sees them through great trials and even death-for-glory not from above but from the future that survivies them.

We are dealing in other words with cultist groups motivated by the personal acceptance that memebers have found within them, and evidently did not find elsewhere.

This is a different question altogether -- not :"how to deter a religous fanatic" but nmuch more importantly, "how do you cure the addiction of an attention-needy individual to the approbation of harmful clusters of people?".

And I think it might be an easier question to answer than the religous one, if we think hard about it. People develop these attention addictions for a reason.

I do not have ready answers, but I think I know the right question when I see it.

Amos


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:15 PM

KimC, only about 15 stories of both the towers are still standing. A 50 story building near them is still on fire and rescue workers can't get close.


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