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AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE

Related threads:
New Songs for 9-11-2001 (109)
Masters of war who build the big guns (45)
Fly the FLAG!!! (175)
WTC memorial lights in NYC (11)
American Attacks**Part Fifty - Got him! (56)
American Attacks:Thirteen and Lucky? (108)
Gospel Sing 9/11 (57)
American Attacks**Part Twelve: Steady On (104)
AMERICAN ATTACKS**PART ELEVEN: Long Haul (111)
AMERICAN ATTACKS*PART TEN-&the future is (116) (closed)
AMERICAN ATTACKS--PART TWO (116) (closed)
AMERICAN ATTACKS**Part 9,one week later (110) (closed)
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Will Bush Be Blamed? (145)
AMERICAN ATTACKS=PART EIGHT.more still (108) (closed)
AMERICAN ATTACKS**PART SEVEN..thoughts (101) (closed)
Binladdin Must Die (102)
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AMERICAN ATTACKS**SIX -about enough huh? (100) (closed)
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While I am Still Rational-- (26)
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Why do we try anymore? (35)
AMERICAN ATTACKS- - - PART FIVE (112) (closed)
I can't sleep (16)
New threat in New York... (4)
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Prayers/Thoughts for all involved (32)
RADIO: Episode 95 - America at War (24)
Praying For Revenge--The War Prayer (21)
Darren Bohan Missing! (5) (closed)
Non-music: God Bless America (Sept 2001) (6) (closed)
PLEASE STAY OFF THE PHONE LINES (2)
Partial list of casualties - more later (6)
AMERICAN ATTACKS- - -PART FOUR (115) (closed)
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catspaw49 11 Sep 01 - 02:13 PM
catspaw49 11 Sep 01 - 02:17 PM
Metchosin 11 Sep 01 - 02:18 PM
wysiwyg 11 Sep 01 - 02:20 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 11 Sep 01 - 02:22 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 Sep 01 - 02:24 PM
Big Mick 11 Sep 01 - 02:25 PM
Sorcha 11 Sep 01 - 02:26 PM
SharonA 11 Sep 01 - 02:28 PM
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Clifton53 11 Sep 01 - 02:31 PM
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LR Mole 11 Sep 01 - 02:42 PM
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Subject: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:13 PM

Let's move threads again.....I am out of words to talk now.....

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:17 PM

PREVIOUS THREAD

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Metchosin
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:18 PM

The American Red Cross has appealed for blood donations from the whole of the US.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:20 PM

1-800-GIVE LIFE to learn how to donate blood near you, or www.redcross.org. It is shipped where it is needed.

Please, everyone, find someone nearby to hang onto, and let yourself try to feel your way through this.

Be the voice of reason and love among those around you struggling to deal with this.

To argue among ourselves here at Mudcat is to replicate the lack of understanding that was made manifest today.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:22 PM

Apart from donating blood, is there anything practical that we can do?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:24 PM

Give blood, donate clothing, blankets, food...

Standard emergency acts...

Time for the human race to shine, in the face of adversity!


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:25 PM

Damn...........twice in a week that I have agreed with Clinton. Gonna have to call my therapist..........LOL. Good stuff, Clinton.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:26 PM

We'll have to wait for the air ways to open up before any of it can be shipped, but we can get a back log going. How about a MudCat blood/fund drive? I can't give blood because of health probs, but Mr. Sorcha can--his last donation was 5 wks ago, and he is A-neg.

Our blood mobile is United, out of Cheyenne so I will contact them.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:28 PM

If you can't give blood, give money!


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:30 PM

United Blood Service click a state map for UB donor locations in your state.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Clifton53
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:31 PM

From a large bridge crossing a river near my home, my daughter on her way to school today could see the towers, and on her return after the cancellation of her classes, she could no longer see them in the distance. She's in tears now with the shock of it all.

From the waterfront in my town you can see the smoke from what is left of the towers burning.

My neighbor works in New York. He's not home yet. My sister-in-law works there also. She's not home yet either.

Clifton


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:33 PM

But DO NOT take clothing to the Red Cross-- not their thing.

This is also a reminder that making a personal emergency plan is important.

You can do a LOT to reassure children when this kind of news is up-- here or anywhere in the world-- by making a Family Disaster Plan, and practicing it when events frighten them. All the materials to do it can be found at the Red Cross site-- basic checklists of stuff to have on hand and most important, having two or three places where your family would know to gather, a central person to check in with and report conditions. Most of the people now stuck in Manhattan have no such plan and have no idea how to find one another.

The Red Cross in the US is the only agency designated by Act of Congress to open and administer safe, regulated shelters in time of catastrophe. It does that while FEMA does what it does. But the Red Cross receives no government funding. A donation can be made online at www.redcross.org and it nearly all goes to providIng direct services-- statistics about that are at that site as well.

But IMO the MOST IMPORTANT thing we can ALL do today and in the weeks to come is let yourself grieve, and help others to grieve, this event. If we don't... it will warp many things we love and hold dear, now and for generations to come. There will be all the time in the world to address what needs to happen, after that.

I am going outseide right now to tie a black ribbon around our front yard tree in symbol of that. (There goes that skirt.) Anyone care to join me?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:36 PM

OK, United Blood can't schedule emergency drives because of personell/scheduling problems, but there is a blood drive going on NOW in Llewllyn Nebraska if you are at all close to there. It MUST have been 8 weeks since you gave blood to be able to donate now; plus all the other caveats about donating--surgery, dental, tattoos, etc.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: John Hardly
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:39 PM

We'd better learn to cope because there will be no retalialtion--there can't be.

I've been feeling sick all morning because I just realized that for the first time in our history we have an adversary that knows we are beyond banding together. Other conflicts seemed, at least on the surface to draw us together. Sadly, this, I fear, will merely show how irreversable are our inner conflicts and how little "there" is there to a national pride and patriotism.

"All we got now is true religion..."


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: LR Mole
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:42 PM

Hey, Cliff 53, let us know, OK? I grieve with you all, but any bit of good news...oh, man...


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:44 PM

Just a word to those Mudcatters who may be implying "America...you had it coming", it might be helpful if you confined your remarks to something helpful or comforting, or just kept your mouths shut. I'm not in any mood to listen to self-righteous gloating today.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:50 PM

Our prayeres in the UK are with you all.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:53 PM

A Sikh man gave me a ride home - cab driver. No subways or busses and my glasses had broken. I was blind. As we drove along, a car pulled up next to us. The driver shouted "Fuck you, raghead!"
I am dreading the aftermath of this.
I just got off the phone with my father - 88. So far, everyone is accounted for but one brother. Dad was crying and demanding that the president use nuclear weapons in the Middle East. I tried to reason with him that the whole area would be destroyed and innocent people killed. Maybe, it was not even done by foreigners. He didn't care. He wants revenge.
Another atheist praying sincerely for rational thought. And I still can't cry.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:55 PM

I generally don't read novels, but sometimes......

A few months ago I read a book by Nelson DeMille called "The Lion's Game." Karen and I discussed it a lot because it gave me a better idea of the mindset of the middle eastern terrorist than anything I have ever read of any type.

Let's not fight with each other........Let's remember that right now there is so much to do and so many dead and injured......Wherever you are, like CH said (he CAN be bright sometimes(:<)))...Get involved in finding or starting to work through your local agencies to provide whatever help you can.

They won't take my blood anymore, but they will take my clothing, money, blankets, household stuff.......A lot of people are going to be in need...........And they are all in need of our best thoughts and prayers.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Llanfair
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:56 PM

The whole thing is too enormous to comprehend. I've seen the pictures, and heard and seen a tiny example of the fear, pain and distress that the people close to this disaster are suffering. I can't take it all in.
My thoughts are with the people who have been affected directly and indirectly. Two HUNDRED firefighters lost? I can't even absorb that.
No matter what our responses are to this terrorist act, it will be the politicians who decide what will be done.
God (or equivalent) help us all.
Bron.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 02:56 PM

no one 'had this coming'...this is a travesty of revenge. We do not know yet exactly who is responsible, but all it took was 4 fanatics with fake IDs who could steer and airplane...bin Laden might be at the core of it, but it was not exactly a high-tech attack....

we shall see...hmmmm?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: sophocleese
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:00 PM

I'll be donating blood here. And anything else that I can.

The news has just reported worries at Whitehorse as a Korean Airlanes Boeing has landed there and its being treated as a hijacked plane.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Burke
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:05 PM

All blood centers in Upstate New York are open until 10:00 for donations. Check Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, & Binghamton.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Diva
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:11 PM

I have been watching this most of the afternoon and I have no words.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:11 PM

Anyone even contemplating using this as a forum to air any politcal beliefs forget it RIGHT NOW. You will play right into the hands of the terrorist. Just remember the dead. Comfort the living. Pray for an end to it.

Peace

Dave


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: weepiper
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:12 PM

My God. I saw the news on CNN 2pm UK time, have been watching with growing horror for most of the afternoon. I feel sick in the pit of my stomach. Love and thoughts from Scotland


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:16 PM

No one "had it coming" - and I haven't come across anyone on the Mudcat saying anything like that. (Apart from some sick GUEST troll starting up a thread which I hope noone will respond to, which is fairly clearly intended to stir up anti-Arab feeling.)

And when more innocent people get killed in some kind of official reprisal, or attacked by some self-appointed vigilante, like the one SINSULL and his Sikh friend ran into, because they look like they might be Arabs or whatever, they won't have "had it coming" either.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: vectis
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:33 PM

Terrible events. All we can do is pray and hope that the attacks end now, before any more innocents die.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Naemanson
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:33 PM

Lynn Noel posted this on the last thread after the link to this one. I am assuming some may not have seen her post:

Subject: Boston report and Blood Drive From: GUEST,lynnoel@att.net Date: 11-Sep-01 - 02:53 PM

Heather reports that Joy Bennett is OK "but has many friends in WTC." Matt Bram also fine. Deb Cowan reports Evy Mayer checked in. No news yet from the Milners or other NY chanteyfolk; let me know if you hear anything.

Ivan Berger offers "if you, or anyone you know, is stuck on the Jersey side and can't get home, have them contact me and I'll try to put them up -- pick them up, if necessary." Ivan Berger Fanwood 908-889-5818 Cellphone 908-553-7477 (I will be out of the house a lot today, but reachable)

Boston local news confirms the Boston-based flights were United #175 (65 aboard) and American #11 (92 aboard). Logan is closed indefinitely, being evacuated and searched. Massport is holding its first news conference as I post, but no word yet on how the terrorists got on board. There were 220 planes departing/arriving Logan between 7 and 9 am (106 departures), and only these two unaccounted for. Both planes were 767s with relatively few passengers (2200 capacity).

Suggestion: there is a national blood shortage, and they're calling for volunteers tomorrow, not today. I will invite Boston-area musicians to go donate together, then ask at the hospital if we may sing for the other donors. If you're in Boston and want to join, contact me offline at lynnoel@att.net. Hope other cities may want to do something similar.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Deda
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:33 PM

A bit of news from CBS that I hadn't seen elsewhere: The date of the attack may have significance: On September 11, 1978, the first historic Camp David accords were signed. In June, a U.S. judge had set this Wednesday as the sentencing date for a bin Laden associate for his role in the bombing of a U.S. embassy in Tanzania that killed 213 people. The sentencing had been set for the federal courthouse near the World Trade Center. No one from the U.S. attorney's office could be reached Tuesday to comment on whether the sentencing was still on.

As for me, I have a call in to my Dr's office asking her permission (which I need) to give blood. Failing that, I am not sure yet, I'll just keep watching for what's needed and what I can do. I'm doing lot of praying--for peace, truth, healing, forgiveness, comfort for the bereaved and the hurt. And I've emailed my kids, both overseas, and my cousin in Boston.


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Subject: Blood drive idea
From: GUEST,lynnoel@att.net
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:35 PM

I'll repost this as my last post crossed threads. The blood drive is requesting donations TOMORROW as they are swamped everywhere today. In the Boston area (actually, probably Cambridge), I will be organizing a group of singers to go and donate blood together, and then sing--songs of peace, tolerance, and hope--for the other donors.I invite any local musicians to contact me at lynnoel@att.net, and hope others in other cities may like to organize something similar.

If you have ideas for songs for such an occasion, I hope we might suggest them to each other. I like the Hope/Encouragement thread at http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=10616#74376

and invite any further suggestions there.

I recognize the anger and the fear as real, and we must address them as individuals and as a country. But I join the voices on this thread that entreat for tolerance and understanding.

When words fail me, and they do today--all I know how to do is sing.

"And if you have been worried that tomorrow wouldn't come Look to see the ones whose lives are following the sun And the hope that springs so clearly from the work they do Will spread a little further when it finds a place in you. We believe, we believe By our work it's so easy to see That the future is more than the following day It's fashioned securely in the clay."

thanks to Bok, Trickett, and Muir for these words of faith.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Naemanson
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:37 PM

SharonA, a jersey barrier is a large concrete fence which you can see along any highway construction project. They have set them up to make a twisting maze entrance into the base. They are searching every car going in. Helicopters are patrolling.

Very serious and scary.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: mike putt
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:42 PM

As already said "no one deserved this " are thoughts and prayers are with you from Ireland


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:43 PM

Anyone who has read this entire string of posts knows what I'm talking about McGrath, and so do you.

As for revenge, it will indeed be sweet if and when the actual killers are identified. Until then, our energies should be devoted to burying our dead and healing our wounded, and not toward the persecution of anyone.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Allan C.
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:47 PM

"Oh, but you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears,
Bury the rag deep in your face
For now's the time for your tears." - Dylan


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:47 PM

What is the date of the "Black September" massacre?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: simon-pierre
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:50 PM

I may have missed it, but have you got any news from Larry?

Mes meilleures pensées de Québec

SP


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:50 PM

My kin are all OK, for those of you who might have been worrying. Kith have yet to be heard from but I assume that's the case for all. Those of you personally unscathed remember, it's sometimes the not knowing, the wait to hear, that's the worst. Anybody who wants to vent to someone who's been there can PM me.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:51 PM

Think for a moment about "collateral damage"--sewer lines, gas mains, no water, what to do with that many bodies (no way can the embalmers keep up), disease, etc.

A RUMOR--Luke came home for lunch and said that he had heard that a military base in Nebraska and Warren AFB in Cheyenne WY were broken into last night and "materiel" stolen.........any confirmation on this?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:52 PM

Our pain is great but I seriously doubt, LEJ, that anyone's revenge will ever be sweet. What's happened is not some prime time TV movie but a defining reality. Even if the decision makers are caught, there will be no adequate compensation for the losses, just continuing pain.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Dorrie
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:53 PM

i'd don't really know what to say...which is a first for me but yes i'm speechless

all our prayers and thought

the dorrie family x


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:53 PM

This is food for thought, received in an email from WyoWoman, who received it from a friend. I think it is something along the lines of what I'd hoped the Dalia Lama might say:

NEWS RELEASE For Immediate Release ARMY GENERALS OFFER PRESIDENT BUSH ALTERNATIVE TO MISSILE DEFENSE SHIELD

Top-Ranking Military Leader from India Proposes "Vedic Defense Shield" for Prevention of War

- NEWS CONFERENCE-
Major General Kulwant Singh
Tuesday, September 11, 10 a.m.
National Press Club, East Room, Washington DC

"Military and diplomatic solutions will never produce lasting peace while enmity seethes in the hearts of the people. The persistent crisis in the Middle East alone proves the inadequacy of paper treaties, and underscores the need for a fundamentally new approach."

-Major General Kulwant Singh

(WASHINGTON, D.C.) A top-ranking army general, who helped lead the fight against terrorism in India for nearly three decades, is coming to Washington, D.C. next week to offer President Bush an effective alternative to his National Missile Defense Shield.

Major General Kulwant Singh, a 35-year career army veteran, backed by a growing number of top military leaders worldwide, will encourage President Bush and other world leaders to immediately deploy "Vedic technologies of defense"-a scientifically proven approach that diffuses regional tensions and prevents conflict.

"President Bush should be commended for his efforts to defend the American people from nuclear attack," General Singh said. "There are critics who argue that the missile shield is untested, costly, and provides no >defense against warheads smuggled in by land or sea. But the President is deploying the most advanced technology he knows. To his critics, I say, >'Show the President a better way.' "Fortunately, now there is a better way. This is why we have come to Washington." Vedic Technologies of Defense Diffuse Acute Social Stress "America and India are great allies. We are bringing to President Bush the best of what India has to offer-the very latest technology in the field of defense," said General Singh. "Research confirms that the outbreak of war begins with rising tensions among rival factions. Conventional means of defense do nothing to address this underlying cause of war: mounting tensions in critical hotspots throughout the world.

"We are offering a proven, prevention-oriented approach, based on Vedic technologies of consciousness, to diffuse acute social stress-and thereby prevent enmity from arising. "Ours is the only new approach with a proven track record-an approach that is backed by extensive published research," General Singh said. How Vedic Defense Works Recent discoveries in the domain of quantum physics and human consciousness, according to General Singh, reveal that the field of consciousness is far more basic and powerful than the nuclear field. "This field of consciousness-termed the unified field in the language of quantum physics-is millions of times more fundamental and powerful than the nuclear force. "We have learned to harness this field through technologies of consciousness that are simultaneously ancient and modern. They are described in the ancient Vedic literature, but they have now become the focus of extensive scientific research. Their application was introduced 25 years ago by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who advocated group practice of Transcendental Meditation and its advanced techniques, including Yogic Flying. To this, Maharishi has added other highly advanced peace-promoting procedures from the Vedic tradition," General Singh said.

More than 50 studies, published in leading peer-reviewed scientific journals, have documented the ability of group practice of Transcendental Meditation and its advanced techniques to reduce societal stress and >violence, and to calm open warfare in war-torn areas. In the mid-1980s this approach was used to quell violence in the Middle East, and resulted in an 80% drop in war fatalities and war-related injuries, according to articles published in the Journal of Conflict Resolution and other scientific publications. Deploying a Vedic Defense Shield in India More than 25,000 meditating experts are now being assembled in India who, General Singh said, will produce an "indomitable influence of peace and coherence in the country. No nation will ever be moved to attack India, as it becomes a lighthouse of peace and coherence to its neighbors and the world. "What better, more humane and cost-effective defense than to prevent the birth of an enemy? Isn't this more likely to prevent an attack than a new arms race that is generating such global fear and heightened hostility towards the US that it might actually provoke a terrorist attack?"

US Department of Peace

General Singh applauded the efforts of members of the US Congress, led by Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), to counter this new military escalation with a US Department of Peace, funded at 1% of the military budget. "Such a department could easily support, even within the ranks of the military, a 'prevention wing' of 10,000 - 20,000 troops trained in Vedic technologies of defense that can prevent the outbreak of war. This should be the true purpose of the military: To keep the peace. Unfortunately, nothing in the current military handbooks trains our soldiers to prevent war. "That is why it is critical now to implement a prevention wing in the military utilizing these proven Vedic technologies of defense," said General Singh, who retired from the military in 1995, and is now Defense Minister of the Global Country of World Peace-a nation without borders founded to "provide a global home for peace-loving people everywhere," and to offer governments "proven, prevention-oriented solutions to critical social problems." General Singh's Itinerary in Washington >General Singh said he is coming to Washington, D.C. to "present to President Bush, and representatives of other peace-loving countries, how to promote invincibility for every nation and permanent world peace by taking recourse to the higher intelligence of Natural Law, which governs the universe with perfect order."


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Gareth
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:54 PM

Horror, shock, foreboding, it's beyond proper expression.

I can only express my sympathy, and pray that clear heads will rule future actions.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: GUEST,oldtimemusic1@aol.com
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:58 PM

MESSAGE TO THOSE WHO DID THIS BE AFRAID...VERY AFRAID.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 03:59 PM

Charley N, I'm sure you are right. "Justice is sweet" might be a better way of expressing what I meant.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:05 PM

Larry Otway? Any word?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:09 PM

Not yet, Sinsull. Milners haven't checked in either.....


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Kim C
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:12 PM

I have not looked at TV today for any amount of time - are both the towers completely gone, or just demolished from the middle up?

Two of my very dearest friends were on vacation in NYC just a week and a half ago. Mere days.

Where's Larry?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Amos
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:13 PM

Some comments on the mindset of perpetrators. I spoke earlier about the fanatacism of Islam. However, having just listened to an interview on NPR with Dr. J. Post, a researcher who has interviewed dozens of convicted terrorists, I believe there is a much simpler insight into the fanatacism that characterizes many terrorist acts whether by Mohammedans, Christians, or others.

The common denominator that seemed behind the tranquil determination of those he interviewed who had committed horrible destructive acts was that their motivatiopn was inclusion, praise and status amongst their peers.

In fact those servinbg time in jail were more set in the view than ever, because being in jail for the group gave them increased status points.

They are not doing it for the afterlife. They are doing it as a way of gaining acclaim, admiration and standing amongst what they perceive as a group of peers. This vision sees them through great trials and even death-for-glory not from above but from the future that survivies them.

We are dealing in other words with cultist groups motivated by the personal acceptance that memebers have found within them, and evidently did not find elsewhere.

This is a different question altogether -- not :"how to deter a religous fanatic" but nmuch more importantly, "how do you cure the addiction of an attention-needy individual to the approbation of harmful clusters of people?".

And I think it might be an easier question to answer than the religous one, if we think hard about it. People develop these attention addictions for a reason.

I do not have ready answers, but I think I know the right question when I see it.

Amos


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:15 PM

KimC, only about 15 stories of both the towers are still standing. A 50 story building near them is still on fire and rescue workers can't get close.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Kernow John
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:16 PM

I have been trying all day to find the words and I still can't.
To all you 'catters out there and your families and friends my thoughts and prayers are with you.
God bless and keep you safe.
KJ


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Subject: Poem from London's Blitz
From: Deda
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:19 PM

Here's a poem by the poet HD, written during ww2's London blitz, a time that was worse (because it went on and on and on) but not so bad (because the walls did NOT fall).

Still the walls do not fall,
I do not know why;

there is zrr-hiss,
lightning in a not-known,

unregistered dimension;
we are powerless

dust and power fill our lungs
our bodies blunder

through doors twisted on hinges,
and the lintels slant

cross-wise;
we walk continually

on thin air
that thickens to a blind fog,

then step swiftly aside,
for even the air

is independable,
thick where it should be fine

and tenuous
where wings separate and open,

and the ether
is heavier than the floor,

and the floor sags
like a ship floundering;

we know no rule
of procedure,

we are voyagers, discoverers
of the not-known

the unrecorded;
we have no map;

possibly we will reach haven,
heaven.
____ H.D. The Walls do not Fall (1942)


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:20 PM

Amos, I heard part of that, too, and it sounded just like descriptions of why chidlren in the US join gangs.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:20 PM

Amos, you would really enjoy and be frightened by the book I mentioned......"The Lion's Game" by Nelson DeMille........Like I said, I began to understand if not comprehend the mideast terrorist mindset.....

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:22 PM

Midchuck, today is my 69th birthday. I will never celebrate another without being reminded of the horrors of today. A few weeks before my thirteenth birthday I was among millions of Americans who rejoiced at the news that a hundred thousand Japanese died in Hiroshima and was disappointed when later death counts were more conservative (not yet taking in the many thousands who were yet to die). Nagasaki gave us another excuse to rejoice (no one told us of the fact that Nagasaki was the center of Christianity in Japan). I have since come to believe that the bombings were not necessary, that they were motivated more by our desire to intimidate the Russians than out of a belief that they were necessary to save American lives.

But I fully understand that in the heat of war, decisions are made in the heat of emotion, and can accept that with our feelings about Pearl Harbor and with the fact that the war was still going on, the decision to use the bomb was reasonable--at least for Hiroshima.

I have since come to believe that to rejoice at any killing is wrong: "Each man's death diminishes me, for I am involved in Mankind,"John Donne wrote. I would fight to defend my country, and would even fight to defend Israel and think it's right that the US do so, but I think that because we do so we have the right and duty to insist that Israel observe international law and recognize the human rights of the Palestinians, that Israel not become their former Nazi enemy and claim lebensraum.

I don't think Americans should have been bombed into extinction because of their elation over the destruction of a couple of Japanese cities, and I don't think the Palestinians should be bombed into destruction because of their joy at seeing whom they reasonably regard as their enemy suffer.

--seed(Charles Kratz--a long time Mudcatter who's been taking a sabbatical)


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:23 PM

This sad day emphasizes in a horrible way the shift from East-West to North-South polarization of the world.

While it is true, as a very few are saying, that the inhuman tactics of the terrorists should not blind us to the fact that the Palestinians have some things they are entitled to resent, what counts more to me is that the randomly chosen victims in the WTC and on board those planes had absolutely nothing to do with any of this. First priority is to look after survivors and help those with loved ones as yet unaccounted for.

After that, can we do anything to prevent equally unjustified attacks on Muslims in our local communities? Hope so.

Have to either get over a feeling of deep disatisfaction with the triviality of most of what I do for a living, or else harness that and go do something better.

Thanks, Catters from Europe and elsewhere, for your kind thoughts.

CC


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Drumshanty
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:30 PM

I have tried but cannot find the words to express my grief and shock at the enormity of this. My thoughts are with you all.

Tracy


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:34 PM

Man, seed, what a lousy birthday.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: nutty
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:40 PM

One question that has been in my mind concerns the structure which collapsed so easily.

It appears that the 110 storey building could not withstand what was the equivalent of a relatively small bomb .......WHY and why then was such a buiding allowed to be built??

Even if this was a terrorist attack ... they (the terrorists) had no way of knowing that such carnage would ensue. Perhaps vanity has a part to play as well.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Hoolet
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:40 PM

Our thoughts are with you all from one who lived at Lockerbie during Pan Am 103


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:43 PM

Every thought I have is with you. This is horror beyond words. Evil came and visited New York and Washington today. Keep safe I am thinking of you all.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:44 PM

McGrath, I hope that any response will be a reasoned one, and I believe it will be. Revenge against the actual perpretators is impossible because they are dead. Their organization, when identified, must be targeted and rendered impotent. But more important, areas of severe tension must be stabilized. There is so much frustration in the World that extremism and more attacks are inevitable unless something is done to alleviate it. Without the frustration, people like bin Ladin (sp.) would not be able to build terrorist groups. At present all we can do is wait to hear if friends and relatives are OK, and try to help those who have suffered loss.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: MMario
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:44 PM

Nutty - a plane crashing into a building is a bit different from a "small bomb" - look at the damage that can occur at walking speed with an automobile - then make the vehicle much much bigger and going a lot faster.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:46 PM

What an Inpossable day... THe local news stations around New York have shown many horoic people doing good in a horific situatoin. THe activity of doing something good and possative is the only sane responce open to "Men of God Will". "Peace to men of good will" is an activity in such a situation. Pease ( nonviolence is dangerous). My thanks to old freinds here for being here. THis is a good place to talk.. All the best , GUy<><><><><><><>>><><><><><>>>,.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:46 PM

nutty, I am pretty sure, watching the video re runs that that there were secondary bombs set at critical sites in the buildings. Just a guess.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:47 PM

What an Inpossable day... THe local news stations around New York have shown many horoic people doing good in a horific situatoin. THe activity of doing something good and possative is the only sane responce open to "Men of God Will". "Peace to men of good will" is an activity in such a situation. Pease ( nonviolence is dangerous). My thanks to old freinds here for being here. THis is a good place to talk.. All the best , GUy<><><><><><><>>><><><><><>>>,.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Amos
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:47 PM

They were sophisticated enought to synchronize the theft of four airlines, time their collisions with targets (except one) and fly them into buildings. They were quite sophisticated enough to assess the structural weaknesses of the WTC towers. I would hazard a guess that bomb-proofing was not part of the original specification for those towers, nor the budget. They were strong enough to stand comfortably for years in all kinds of whether. Maybe noone thought they would be military targets.

A


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:48 PM

I was just sent an office number for Larry's (InOBU) wife. I rec'd it because of the similarity of his band name/my name. I tried to call it, and rec'd no answer......


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:48 PM

What an Inpossable day... THe local news stations around New York have shown many horoic people doing good in a horific situatoin. THe activity of doing something good and possative is the only sane responce open to "Men of Good Will". "Peace to men of good will" is an activity in such a situation. Pease ( nonviolence is dangerous). My thanks to old freinds here for being here. THis is a good place to talk.. All the best , GUy<><><><><><><>>><><><><><>>>,.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Deda
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:48 PM

Seed, my sympathies for having your b'day ruined. My own son's b'day is April 20th. On his 21st b'day 15 kids died at Columbine high school -- and we live in Colorado. I would say that your birth, like his, is nevertheless something worthy of celebration, albeit, today at least, with a little solemnity.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:53 PM

Not to mention that the amount of FUEL on a coast-to-coast flight, as all of these planes were intended to be, makes this a HUGE mo'fo' bomb.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: GUEST,AliUk
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:54 PM

'spaw. I read that book and know exactly what you are talking about. Also...for those who live in the UK, my hometown has a very large population of muslims and they are hard to comprehend. Their intepretations of the koran are even more subjective than many christian interpretation of the bible and they seem to take and twist God's words how they wish them to be. They have a fanaticism that I personally have always believed would be the cause of world war more than the soviet threat ever was. Now this does not mean that I believe that allo muslims are fundamentalist fanantics, buit they sure do breed more of them than most. the war in th Palestine is between Israel and the Palestinians, why the hell do we need to get involved? See what happens!


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:56 PM

Sorry but I ain't go no jokes in me tonight.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: John Hardly
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:56 PM

Well, this is rich.

I've been listening to NBC all day and it is there implicit editorial position that we had it coming to us.

More specifically, it is the new administration's fault for re-affirming our commitment to alliance with Israel.

Why it would not instead occur to them (NBC) to take this as affirmation that we have chosen our allies more correctly and that, by action, the Arabs have proven themselves to be no friend of ours is beyond me.

I have no problem with an Arabs as a race, as individuals, ethnically. I think racism is highly immoral. But if I had to fly somewhere tomorrow, and American or United Airlines offered a choice between non-smoking or Arab-free, I'd fly Arab free airlines.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:59 PM

I think I have found a home number for InOBU---should I try it? Does someone who knows him better than I do want to try? PM me, and I'll give you the number.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 04:59 PM

I have Larry's number, but the circuits are understandably all busy. Same thing with Dan's.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:00 PM

I hope that any response will be a reasoned one, and I believe it will be. I hope you are right Dicho. But the precedents on this kind of thing aren't too enouraging.

As for the WTC collapse - I'd suspect gas explosions and electrtrical explosions and so forth would be more likely than carefully coordinated secondary bombs planted. If whoever did it had the people and orgaisation in place for that, I'd have thought they'd have been more likely to target additional buildings.

The reason I say that is not because the technical ins-and-outs of it are what matter at this time. They are not. But there is a danger of exaggerating the powewr and ability to stroke of an invisible enemy, and that is a dangerous thing to do. It feeds into the kind of panic in which bad mistakes are made. I'm thinking of things like the internment camps for Japanese Americans in the wake of Pearl Harbour.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:00 PM

Should we keep trying, kat, or back off a while????


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:03 PM

Sorcha - call, definitely.

"They" are at war with "us" whether "we" are at war with "them" or not.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:05 PM

Whoever did it also chose commercial airliners on their way to the west coast with large amounts of fuel in their tanks, which, I'm sure, contributed to the damage. Amazingly, they also chose planes with many less passengers than capacity.

Even spending all day here at Mudcat and on several news sites and listening to the radio and seeing photographs, it's still totally unreal. That this many innocent people could be killed to, what? Make a point? God help us ALL.

Bat Goddess


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: mkebenn
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:06 PM

So much pain, so much loss, so much danger, and yet, to me , the citizens of NYC are shining as millions of individual heros.. I am afraid of the future.. Mike


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Jack The Lad
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:08 PM

Our thoughts and prayers are with you all. with the victims and with the bereaved. with the shocked and with the numbed with the torn and with the mamed with the blind and with the mislead violence and terror will not conquer

Jack The Lad- in Israel


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Amos
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:10 PM

We all are. The question is whether to retreat from it, or step up to it with the intent to better it.

Either choice has scary sides, but one has rewards.

A.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Penny S.
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:20 PM

My thoughts and prayers are with all the victims - which probably means all of you in and from the United States. I am finding it almost impossible to grasp. Only by comparing the tragedy with natural disasters can I make sense of the scale. Making sense of people who would take innocent travellers and use them as a bomb to destroy even more people is not possible.

Again, my inadequate sympathy is with you.

penny


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: jeffp
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:23 PM

My 18-year-old stepdaughter wrote this in response to today's events and asked me to share it with you.

911
by Emily Pennington, 2001

Words nor sayings ain't nothin'...
The world will continue frontin'
Sh*t, we livin' in our last days -
It don't matter what nobody says or will say.
Our destinies are chosen
Still we need to stay strong and keep focus
Regardless, life can be hard... Don't dare let that tear us apart.
Even though, every day we strive
Keep hope alive.
I beg of you - don't give up yet.
For one day, justice we shall get...
Faith may be the only true investment.
Motha' f*ckers ain't truly ready for this testin'...
But realize life is precious -
As much as lust bein' lucious...
Give up,
Then we're all stuck.
God's in control
So let life go on and roll.
Remember, play every dat
And never let a moment slip away....

*911*
God bless all of us...

Just one young person's view on things. For your consideration.

jeffp
God help us all.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:24 PM

Black bands on my rowan and "who knows" trees, also on my car antenna..........


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:27 PM

GOOD poem, Emily P.....spot on!!


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: GUEST,Pete M @ work
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:29 PM

This is the first chance I've had of getting to the 'Cat since hearing the news.

Like everyone else I can only offer my heartfelt sympathy.

I also pray that the response from the US follows the Lockerbie model not that following the bombing of the US Embassies. Quite apart from the questionable morality of a military response I would suggest it would be unlikely to be of any paractical use. One would expect that any group with the sophistication to organise this attack will also have anticipated such a response and dispersed, probably prior to the attack.

Once again sympathy to all US 'catters.

Pete M


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:30 PM

E mail sent to Larry----surely they will check that when they can.........fingers crossed, toes too.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: flattop
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:31 PM

Amos, you might also want to look at Eric Hoffer's book 'The True Believer.'


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: GUEST,X-Ed
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:35 PM

GIVE BLOOD! I gave today and the wait was not bad at all. Treatment was top notch. I was informed on a "normal" day the blood banks need 800 donors a day. 11 Sept. 2001 is far from normal. Please do what you can for our fellow Americans. I was so intrusive I went up to strangers and suggested they follow suit. I wish the responses were more positive.

Time for payback. Maybe we should get additional blood donations from the nations that support terrorism.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:37 PM

I wish I could give blood. Even for those of us who can out here, there is no place to do it. Local hosp not set up, local blood bank too small to have the personell, etc. I will send $$$ to ARC instead.........that is about all I can do.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: GUEST,X-Ed
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:40 PM

Encourage others too!


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:41 PM

I am, I am....


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: jeffp
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:49 PM

I live in the Baltimore-Washington area. Local blood donation centers are reporting 4 to 6 hour waits. They are staying open and processing donations 24 hours a day.

jeffp


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:53 PM

Blood will be transferred to affected areas from all over the country, making blood supplies low for some period of time everywhere until they are made up. You can make a big impact by giving now, but if you cannot give now, it will still mean a lot of you can give later.

Please, if you are going to give blood, eat something first!

~Susan


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Whistleworks
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:54 PM

We will all get through this, as we have in the past. We are a tough bunch. And, as Robert Schuller once said, "Tough times never last, but tough people do".

My thoughts are with the families of those who we lost today.

Bob Pegritz


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 05:55 PM

Phone lines into NYC still overloaded........my cousin is in San Diego and can't get home......


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:00 PM

Apparently Afghanistan is being bombed


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Cobble
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:01 PM

Our thoughts are with you all in US, we lit a candle in the window...

Brian and Margaret


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:01 PM

Sorcha, Amos is in SD.

My mother and brother are in LA if anyone is stranded there...

My sister is in Chicago...

~S~


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:03 PM

Yea, Suze, I thought so, but SD should not be too overloaded, and she is on company time, so they should spring for a hotel for her. I will e mail her again to make sure, if not I will ask for A's phone, OK?


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:06 PM

Yes, or PM him if I ain't roundabouts.

~S~


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:06 PM

Kabul, Afghanistan – Explosions indicative of missile strikes and anti-aircraft fire are being reported and shown on TV. No report of who is doing the bombing.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:09 PM

Part Four


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: GUEST, Guest
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:10 PM

Sorcha: I can't e-mail you because I'm a guest. But if your cousin is stuck for a room, I can probably have him or her set up in the guest suite of our condomnium near the airport, if the room's not booked.

I can give you contact details, if you'd like, by contacting me at lasfine@lainsider.com


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: MAV
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:10 PM

To all Euro-catters,

Thanks for all for your thoughts, prayers and compassion.

This action is believed to potentially have more casualties than the total Americans lost in Viet Nam.

Over 150,000 visitors tyically visited the WTC every day. The buildings have a capacity of around 50,000.

This is not just a strike on "America", it's a cowardly attack on innocent American citizens. Many attitudes world wide will have been changed today on a myriad of issues. This day will be significant for the next 100 years.

The terrorists cared not whether the victims white or black, conservative or liberal. They have shown the American people the reality of a dangerous world and need to become a unified nation.

Afganistan being bombed?

Though not real religious....God help us.

mav out


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:10 PM

Let's move it again.....

AMERICAN ATTACKS-PART FOUR

..NEW THREAD LINK

Spaw


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Jock Morris
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:19 PM

I'm sitting here with tears welling in my eyes with the shock of the news from the US. My thoughts are with all those who have lost loved ones or whose loved ones are still unaccounted for.

Scott


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:21 PM

God, this is fucked up!! We watched a lot of it at work. A friend of mine has a tv in his office. I still can't fathom it. And to think of what's to come. The continued loss of life, the fear, the hatred....If we follow suit to go along with th Pearl Harbor analogy that keeps being repeated, it's going to horribly dangerous for people of Arab descent in this country. A couple of weeks ago, I was eating at restaurants in Middle Eastern neighborhoods on Chicago's North Side and treated quite nicely. Now these people might very well be treated like Asian-Americans during WWII. As I type, they are announcing explosions in Kabul, Afghanistan, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. Part of me isn't too upset about us (if it is us) attacking a likely responsible party, and part of me feels guilty about that part.

The 4th plane that landed in Western PA could have been intended to hit a few blocks from where I work. Bell-Telephone/Verizon here in Pittsburgh is a major hub of both phone and internet communications in this country.

I'm getting more upset as I write.
Will write more later.

Rich


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: blt
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:28 PM

In Oregon, I didn't understand what had happened until 10:00am PST (3 hours earlier than the East Coast)--then, trying to get information was a bit difficult, NPR was available but I didn't see any video until I went into the treatment center where I work and saw a replay of the collapse of the 2nd tower.

Without trying to be catastrophic, I can only think that this event draws a line in the historical sand. At first, when I read the headlines on the NY Times website, I thought (in denial) that it was some sort of movie trailer, I couldn't comprehend it. I had to go pick up my car at the repair shop, in Portland, it's a gorgeous day, I felt as if I was memorizing every color of every leaf on every tree.

My fears are, of course, of US retailiation. I agree with Amos' description of the possible scenarios. The US was poised, it seems, for this to happen. I don't mean to minimize the destruction, death, and pain to all involved, I just think of the targets, the World Trade Center and the Pentagon--what they might symbolize to someone raised to hate the "West." Without knowing who the perpetrators are, I also fear that jingoism and the panic of misinformation, combined with a sense of blind outrage, will cause more pain, more death.

With profound sadness for all the losses we collectively are experiencing at this point in time, and with a deep belief and trust in the divinity of all life,

blt


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:33 PM

As I write, missles are falling in the capitol of Afghanistan. No mention of who's missles.

My first reaction to the news this morning, which I read on Mudcat, was the same reaction I had to the Challenger explosion: "Stop it - that's not funny." Then came the realisation that it's not some sick joke.

Forgive me for being disgusted by what I see as opportunistic political flames. I'd think the personal agendas of hate could wait until the bodies of the victims were cold. Then again, the missles sure didn't wait.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: Lanfranc
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:33 PM

Today the world changed irrevokably.

More than Pearl Harbour, more than Hiroshima or Nagasaki or Dresden or Hamburg or Beirut, todays unconscionable atrocity will live in the annals of infamy for as long as our civilisation survives.

As a PR exercise for terrorists everywhere it was without equal. The images that were seared on the retinas of every viewer will have encouraged every tinpot retard with a "cause" to consider how he (or she) can make a similar impact. How can they ever be denied "the oxygen of publicity" when deeds such as these are perpetrated?

Any retaliation will only act as a catalyst to further terrorism, our world is too fragmented, and too many hold real or imagined grievances; too many believe that their cause is just and "God is on my side".

I was close to both the Baltic Exchange and Bishopsgate bombs in London. I know how scared and confused I was, and those were mere cap bombs by comparison to this.

I have worked in the City of London all my adult life, and I have friends and colleagues who work in New York's financial district. I have stood on the top of the WTC, and a painting of the Manhattan skyline hangs in my hallway.

This is beyond belief, and my heartfelt thoughts are with every victim, and every victim's family and friends.

May the final outcome be less dreadful than we all fear.

I can't see how it can be, though.


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: CamiSu
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 06:36 PM

'Seed, I understand. Today is my husband's (and Wavestar's fater's) 50th birthday. I had no time to plan anything and now I am grateful for that. A party now would just be all wrong.

Also my son was down there just this weekend and thought to go to the towers, as he'd not been in a while...

I just pray for all those involved and hope we do not react wrongly. All these innocents hurt and killed, let us not hurt and kill more innocents. If only this would cause us to forswear all war, but it won't.

I am numb, and I'm afraid. God in whatever name you call him, help us all.

CamiSu


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Subject: RE: AMERICAN ATTACKS---PART THREE
From: GUEST,Bouzouki Bob
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 09:58 PM

It would have been far better for our world, if the attack had been from outer space. At least then all people of the world would be united, we would share a common enemy. It,s hard to beleive that there is anyone in our world, that would have enough hate, to commit such an unspeakable horror, on so many innocent people. God help us all to resolve our differences. B.B.
These are the threads in the series on the World Trade Center Tragedy. Please post only to the most recent thread in the series. The others are closed because they are too long for some browsers to open. There is no need to "refresh" old threads in this series. These links should be sufficient.
Thanks
-Joe Offer-

This thread is closed. Please do not post any more messages in this thread. Additional messages will be deleted.


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